October 31, 2017 Show with Dr. William Webster on “The Gospel of the Reformation”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one

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Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth

who are listening via live streaming at Iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnton your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Reformation Day on this

31st day of October 2017 and it has been quite a long

time since I've had my old friend Bill Webster on the program.

I'm really excited about having him on today.

He is one of the foremost experts in my opinion of the Roman Catholic Church

coming from the perspective of a Bible believing Protestant and he's also One of the

most thoroughgoing experts on the Protestant Reformation itself.

I'm sure that Bill would be too humble to describe himself that way, but I have no problem saying that and

Dr. William Webster is pastor of grace Bible Church of Battleground, Washington.

And he's the founder of Christian resources.

He's the author of quite a number of books including some published by banner of truth and

some which have been brought into print through Christian resources and Today we are going to be discussing one

of his books, which is very appropriate.

Considering it is Reformation Day.

We are going to be discussing the gospel of the Reformation and it's my honor and privilege To welcome you

back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. William Webster.

Hi Chris, and it's great to have you here.

And let me also introduce to you My co -host in studio with me the Reverend

buzz Taylor.

Hello.

And it sounds like it's going to be another interesting subject today and.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own regarding the Protestant Reformation are.

Or you could also include in that in regard to Roman Catholicism.

The email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And you may remain anonymous if you are asking about a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with your own pastor on theology or you disagree with your own spouse on

Theology or you are a Roman Catholic and you have questions that you want to ask.

Anonymously, there could be a lot of reasons why someone might want to be anonymous and we will grant that

request.

But if it's not something personal and private, please at least give us your first name your city and state your

country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And Bill if you wouldn't mind even though we've had you on this program before since it's been so

long I'd like you to give a summarized version of your testimony of.

What kind of religious background if any you were raised in and what providential?

Circumstances our Sovereign Lord used in your life to draw you to himself and save you.

And then.

How you realize that you had a call upon your life to enter into the ministry?

Well, I was raised Roman Catholic.

I was through my

grade school years.

And when I was

three

nothing says I love you like that.

Yeah, well they.

Sincerely my mother and

some it won, you know one day

that did not so in

that sense.

It was fulfilled but not in a Roman Catholic sense,

but I

was sent away drinking.

I had come to a place in my life where to the

questions that I was in my

life at that

point in time I

went for fully embraced

a lot

at the time.

I was 19

Lee

my grandfather intervened in my life.

Had a great influence upon me.

Not from a religious standpoint or spiritual standpoint, but just strictly

standpoint out of love for me wanting to help me.

And I I really attribute to

him and his in

my studies from

1771 my goal in

life at

that my

wife was there

that I

had

I had no

clue in

my mind

everything

with

Ouija

boards and automatic way thinking

I had Sort

of a

cunt through

that

experience

and I began to

know so I

began to read the Bible.

At the same time there was a pastor in the town in which we were living at the time.

Did not know how to help I was involved in

and

the danger of

the yoke and he

would

get

into the gun.

It was a day

where to

Christ in him in my life

from that quickly transformed filled it up

and the

great heration and

who would

he travel walking

type is empty and Who

does

and I'm

going experience you

all experience.

Amen.

Well, I think that you can sense the passion in Dr. Webster's voice and

this is why he has dedicated a very large portion of his ministry to

exposing the errors of Rome and to bring to light the truths of the Reformation

from the scripture and this proves That

this is not some kind of hateful agenda or bigoted agenda

to oppose the Roman Catholic Church the Roman Catholic Church Anathematized

dr. Webster and I long before we were born in the Council of Trent and the Reverend

Buzz Taylor as well and all those who believe in the Gospel of the Reformation and they have never recanted or

overturned those anathemas nor can they without toppling the dogma of papal

infallibility.

So that would be an impossibility.

But how when did you really?

Become convinced.

And how did you become convinced that God had placed a call upon your life to become a pastor?

Well when I was converted we my wife

and I to

Memphis and

Evangelical Church and their preaching of

the Word of God.

And we got involved there

in a ministry to ministry

to I

was converted that is a

Dutch Denomination.

She was born here in the States.

She's a hundred percent Dutch and Christian reformed and very solidly Calvinistic.

But she did not know Christ.

Even as we were married there in the early years.

She did not know Christ.

Yes.

In fact, I interviewed Paula your wife on that a number of years ago on the old program.

We were very

involved in

ministry

Christianity that I read about the Word of God and I

look at the experience of man.

Who's

the gospel

of Reformation?

Which had to do with justification

anarchy

was she had always and

doing everything

she was told to do

but she did not know the Lord and she was she was not converted and She could

finally got to the place and we got to the place in a marriage where things were really going downhill.

It's

by I had

not heard

that Christ on a man's life to be a

follower a disciple and I suddenly realized that there is an aspect

of if you're

going to be a disciple and a follower.

Yes that that is where you want to go.

But it's not necessary for being a

Christian

or entering.

Any man wishes to come after me.

Let

him

deny

himself

to ever wishes.

You must be

a part

of Christianity.

It's grounded upon this gospel as you have

received upon that

foundation will

run by the man who

I got

used to transform her life.

We went to that school and in the in the

Chose to do as was my heritage.

I had not really done

a lot of

study if

you're not careful

I do

have

a

affirmation.

It's not just about the gospel for the primary

the

Word

of

God is

priming

that goes

all

the

way

and then

they're hooked

and it Is

her

tonight?

I

began

to

look at

tradition

and

my

it's

not

Rome Roman

as

time

evolves

degree

in history from SMU

Reformation are

enduring have to

begin

Ongoing and that

message that is proclaimed through the Reformation.

And my great concern in the day in which we live

Evangelical

from that heritage and from that commitment to the book of

gospel affirmation

again this time to the evangelical church.

Although the church so

tell our listeners about grace.

Bible Church in battleground, Washington.

The congregation where you pastor.

Tell us about the founding of that church and what its theological Makeup would be etc.

Yeah, well given what I just said about evangelicalism.

We were my wife and I and a number of other families from battleground here.

They began to quickly

would

call

he would

eat.

You

come to

Christ by faith in

many cases in its in

its basic content.

And you have an intellect faith,

or it could be just

and I am trusting Jesus to

be my Savior before God.

But there's nothing about repentance.

There's nothing about understanding what sin is and the nature of sin and the need

for a turning from that sin

to my

sin, but.

And we're gonna pick up right where you left off after we return from our first station break.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for dr William Webster our

email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chris ar n z n at gmail .com.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with dr. William Webster and the gospel of The

Reformation.

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luncheon But they also sent us at least a hundred free Bibles to give away and

we just thank them for their faithful sponsorship, in fact, we have been involved with

the publishers of the NASB going all the way back to 1995 when I

had my first work should I say when I organized my first Roman Catholic versus

evangelical Protestant debate on Long Island, New York.

That was the great debate number one between dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and

Jerry medetics a Roman Catholic apologist who is with

a Apostolate they call them By biblical foundations international, I believe it's

called and and that that that debate is largely Due to

our guest today.

Dr. William Webster because I called bill When I was challenged to find an

evangelical Protestant to face Jerry medetics in a debate and bill said Oh you want James White for that

job?

Yeah, and.

So and then I remember saying to you yeah, but bill I read in a Catholic magazine that he's just a hateful bigoted

monster.

I'm like, oh, come on.

It's a Catholic magazine.

So I thankfully I did not believe the article in the magazine and believed you.

Instead and that began a very long relationship and friendship With dr. James R. White

which still continues to this day.

And I just wish that his schedule would free up so we could have him back for another debate sometime.

But I would love to have you involved in a conference In the in

the future.

I know that my friends out on Long Island invited you to participate in their Reformation

conference for the 500th anniversary of the Reformation and I know that the Providential

circumstances prevented you from right from being out there.

But I would love to get you out here in Pennsylvania at some point whenever the Lord allows.

So let's keep in touch about that.

But before the break Dr. Webster you You were talking

about how the Evangelicals that you were in fellowship with in a particular

church were dismayed by the easy believism that was dominant in

the church where you were members and and this easy believism is basically teaching a

repentant list Christianity or a Christianity a Christianity where repentant

lessness is a possibility for a true

regenerate born -again believer.

Yeah, they put up for can come

and we could ask question

as you read

through this and

a commitment.

What is a man's response.

Jesus Christ?

How do you enter into the experience of salvation.

And as we got into that meeting and we began to ask questions?

It became very he did not believe that a man had to repent of sin in order to come

to Christ to know salvation.

By a

number

of

it became

very apparent

in that meeting.

There was not going to be a meeting of the mind

he committed.

This man was

and so my wife and a number of others of us in the church

Word

of God and not be identified

presents at

that

point

in

time

temporarily.

I'm

like

John Calvin.

Didn't have a William Pharrell to to call a curse of God in my head if I didn't obey him.

In my mind it

was

going to be

temporary

but

it

ended up and that's grace.

Bible Church in.

Battleground Washington and their website, which I'll be hopefully repeating later as well, but it's grace Bible

battleground org at grace Bible battleground org and

This is an independent Baptistic Sovereign Grace believing church,

correct.

And.

Well, let's move on to our main subject at hand now the gospel of the Reformation.

In fact, it's kind of interesting that some of what you said obliterates the Roman

Catholic stereotype that they often throw in the face of

The heirs of the Reformation or Bible believing Christians.

They will very often say that what the Reformation brought about by

having as a watchword or as a pillar of its existence

justification by faith alone or sola fide.

Roman Catholics will a broad brush the entirety of Protestantism and especially

evangelicalism with.

With the brush of easy believism.

The thing the very thing that you departed from your former church over.

And obviously something that you consider a heresy and something that the Reformers would have considered a heresy, right?

But but if you could tell us.

Exactly, what is at the root of the gospel of the Reformation and in what ways

does it contrast? With the gospel of Rome.

Do you have to make a judgment in that standard.

Clearly is the Word of God?

You come back to the old you have.

I mean apart from that revelation we have to know him

in order

to and how you

got two basic

issues in the

Reformation.

One is

and The Word

of God is given and to equip the church

a major call.

Proclamation of

the gospel says

you you got a rose men who teach

and I'm calling you to do

the work of an evangelist

Authority of Christ.

You are called as a man of God in the church.

Well.

This is

what the

Reformation

is all about

it.

Little ages

and know the

gospel and the

God and

the

moral.

Corrupted

men men

and

the in the

Roman Catholic Church Word of

God.

Luther wrote three treatises three years after he posted his 95

pieces kind of defined his whole take on what?

Illegitimate and

they're not

subject to the way in

their mind.

The Pope.

And then.

Take

what

you

have

in

the very proclamation of that word

which is what the Word of God was and

what their practice was.

It was the ultimate authority over the early church was

and

it's

accountable to it.

And Reformation first started.

They were not calling for a revolution.

They were simply trying.

And it was Luther a

reformation.

But

he had

no

intent.

In a

matter of

weeks that

Jen

morphed

into.

And in fact.

We're gonna pick right up right where you left off when we return from our Midway break.

This is a longer than normal break.

We have to comply with the regulations of Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in

Lake City, Florida who require a 12 -minute break between our two -hour segments,

so I hope you'll be patient and Make use of this time also to write questions for. Dr. William

Webster regarding our topic and We're gonna be Back as soon as possible

with a continuation of our discussion.

Right right where we left off.

But I thought since we have such a long break that it might be nice to introduce

to you party hardy -mardy and the protesters.

During the 16th century the Church of Rome reached its height of power as well as

its depth of debauchery greed and corruption.

One of the most vile and greedy puppets of the papal throne was a member of the Dominican Holy

Order named Johann Tetzel.

Tetzel sold indulgences to the spiritually ignorant and enslaved laity warning

them that this was a necessary means to purchase the souls of their deceased loved ones out

from the torments of purgatory.

A Limerick became popular in that day's event when a coin in Tetzel's coffer rings

a soul from purgatory Springs.

This abuse of papal power through pilfering the poor pious and peasant people did not go unnoticed by a

young German Augustinian monk who was once one of Rome's most faithful and loyal subjects.

Outraged by the level of greed and wickedness that the church sank to this monk nailed his protest to

the practice of indulgence selling To the door of the castle church in Wittenberg hoping to spark a

debate with the intelligentsia of Rome.

The hammer blows as these 95 theses were nailed to the church door were like cannon fire

heard rounds of world and ignited the blaze of a holy Inferno that is still burning

brightly today.

This holy inferno is the Protestant Reformation.

That Augustinian monk who ignited it was me.

Hello, I'm Martin Luther and this is my story.

Oh, yeah, I'm the great Reformer.

Reforming the churches of what I'm known for.

I made my protest Before Zilli and all of the rest Nailed

it up to the Wittenberg door.

Oh, yeah, I'm the great Reformer.

Reforming the church was my goal.

But the Pope threw me out like some bad sauerkraut.

Flushed me right down his Vatican.

I would not indulge

that dirtbag Johan Tetzel.

So they threatened to twist my spine up just like a pretzel.

Yeah I'm the great Reformer.

The Pope put a price on my head.

But well out on the run I Married a nun.

Sure beats living with guys who bake bread.

That's very bold guys there in robes baking bread.

My.

Lady sweet Katie gave up her old habit.

She once dressed like a penguin now multiplies like a rabbit.

Yeah, I'm the great Reformer.

I Turned Texas Church upside down.

I'll be dead, but that won't keep me down.

They wanted to slice me and dice me and feed me to the papal palace.

Puppy dogs.

But I'll bet you that in the 21st century that I'm.

Here's one for the big man.

In the big hat in the big chair.

In Rome the Pope.

I'm the great Reformer.

I Desecrate this to him.

You don't don't push me around like your

papal punks.

You don't own me.

I'm no longer one of your fear -billed monks.

You don't own me.

I'm not just another one of your toys.

You don't own me.

I Won't ring your bell.

Just like your altar boys.

How

to play.

The sola spectora is my rey un sola gratia un sola

vide un solus priestus is my king so I will

vow to kiss your rey.

You don't own me.

Go read the notes that I mailed to your store.

You don't own me.

I'm not taking your paper's bull anymore.

Me vent unir

un solus terne how to play.

The sola spectora.

Is my rey un sola gratia un sola vide un

solus priestus is my king so I will vow to kiss your rey.

You don't own me.

I might be a song here that's covered with snow but I know when I dive into heaven I will

go.

That I am a Christian warrior to defend soli deo

you don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me you don't own me

you don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me.

You don't own me

you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me you don't own me.

And generosity.

That's the Thrivent Story.

Paul wrote

to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do,

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church, MA .org, that's Providence Baptist Church, MA .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Shopping's Iron Radio.

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in.

Our guest today for the full two hours, with just about an hour to go, is Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible

Church of Battleground, Washington, founder of Christian Resources, and the author of a book we are

discussing today, amongst many other books that he's written, The Gospel of the Reformation.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Dr. William Webster, our email address is

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter over which you are

asking.

Before I return to Dr. Webster, I just have a couple of very important announcements to make in regard to

special events being run by some of our sponsors.

The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is conducting their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform

Theology at Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town, Pennsylvania, November 17th

through the 18th.

The theme is For Still Our Ancient Foe, a reference to Satan from that classic

Reformation hymn by Martin Luther, A Mighty Fortress.

The speakers at this conference include Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles,

Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant.

If you would like to join me there, I will be there, along with Reverend Buzz Taylor at an Iron Sharpens

Iron radio exhibitor's booth.

If you'd like to join us, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org, click

on Events, and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

Then coming up in January, from the 17th through the 20th, the G3 Conference

returns to Atlanta, Georgia.

G3 standing for Grace, Gospel, and Glory.

The theme of this coming G3 Conference is Knowing God, a Biblical

Understanding of Discipleship.

The speakers at this G3 Conference include such notable names

as Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles, Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice,

James White, Tom Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Krueger, David Miller, Paul Tripp,

Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, Martha Peace, and Justin Peters.

The 17th of January is exclusively a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference, and the 18th through the 20th is all in

English.

If you'd like to register, go to G3Conference .com, G3Conference .com,

and please, if you're registering for any of these events, please let the folks running them know that you heard

about them through Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And by the way, I plan to be at the G3 Conference as well, manning an Iron Sharpens Iron

exhibitors booth there in Atlanta, Georgia, so I hope to see many of you there as well.

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Now we are back to our guest, Dr. William Webster.

And Dr. William Webster has been discussing his book, The Gospel of the Reformation.

And when we went to the midway break, Dr. Webster, you were

basically going through a summarized version of Martin Luther nailing the 95 Theses to

the door of the castle church in Wittenberg.

And if you could pick up right where you left off.

It was a

catalyst

to be the

head of the church.

The iceberg, huge,

massive,

on authority and salvation.

And what happened, and to question the authority of the Bishop of Rome, and he began to branch,

he had to do with, and purgatory.

He began to bring this back to the authority of the Word of God.

It opened the floodgates.

And now we had it translated

into the language of the people.

You have men who are becoming into

an

unacceptable

message.

Reformers

approach

teaching much

like the

life

that

is lived

out of the experience

of salvation in Him.

When they began to do that, they ran head on into conflict with the Church of Rome and its sacramental,

sacerdotal, syncretistic form of salvation.

Faith alone, Christ alone,

and

justification defines

the Word of God,

not in a man's works.

This is what the Roman Catholic Church was teaching.

You need the grace

of

Christ, grace for men, in its

priesthood, in its sacraments, is the Savior.

You cannot

know salvation

without God in the

Lord.

To open their eyes is that salvation is in Christ alone,

not out to

God, for their sin to be dealt with.

And that's the main issue.

And so we come back then to an understanding, you've got to go back to the beginning.

We have a Creator, loving

and merciful and gracious.

But He has revealed Himself

to us by

the law of God.

It tells us the

relationship with

the

living

God.

Secondly, out of that relationship, all of our behavior and our

thoughts, desires, our motives,

He submitted to His will, which is revealed in His Word.

Submission and love

is all about because

God's three

-fourth, we're told,

sin is lawlessness.

It is anomia, that is, antinomian.

It is opposed to His

Word.

We go our own way.

In a man's life,

created him.

The law of God basically

says that

if you want

to get

to heaven, do not

abide the command of God.

He's a holy God.

Man has rebelled against the law of God.

We are the

judgment and

one day die.

He will condemn us for all eternity.

So the great need is to be redeemed.

And that is what Jesus Christ has done.

That is why He came.

He is the Savior of the world, Son of the world.

We all have guilt before God, in terms of

your thought, Lord, your God with all your heart,

soul, mind, and strength, 24 -7, never deviating from that, to never act in a way that is

independent of Him,

never go, every man who

looks on a woman to lust in the eyes of God.

There is no way you can look at the law of God and say, oh yeah, I'm okay.

We're all guilty.

But that law,

and that

death, God in

His name becomes man.

He is the God -man, the one mediator between God and man.

And in His life, to

redeem

us, to

bear

the penalty,

3 says again, in

death.

He paid the penalty.

He gave up His life in death.

Now justification and the need of man

is not one, all

of sin,

and if

all of

Christ is the judgment of God, God is holy.

He is righteous.

He is a God of wrath.

To give us what we could never achieve, and that

is to redeem us from the condemnation of the law,

from eternal judgment, because in that

atonement, the Lord Jesus Christ cancels.

Out.

It says in Colossians 2.

He grieves against us.

In a way, He's nailed it to the cross.

So when we come to Christ, because He

alone gave His life

as an

atonement to

satisfy the righteous.

Man can do that.

Know that nothing is acceptable to God but that.

Because God

and Christ

are your works.

Theology and merit,

their own, subverts the

verse that says

that if we

sin, He requires eternal death.

So there you go.

There's absolutely no way

for God, by what they are, can do

in 10 or 12 years, striving to make Himself

acceptable to God until God opens His eyes to understand what is the righteousness of God.

When a man comes to Christ, he is declared righteous by God.

But he is robed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, which is, as our sin was imputed to Christ, His

righteousness is imputed to

us, being righteous before

Him.

Because once a man is in Christ, eternal work.

It is the

righteousness of Christ

that man

himself has before the judge of this universe.

Our sin is gone.

Whatever things

were Jesus

my Lord, for

whom I may gain Christ, but

that which is through faith in Christ, the

righteousness which comes from God, on the truth you could ever

lay hold of, if you understand, you are the

one who is the righteousness of

God.

It's a gift of God to you.

It is pure.

And this is eternal.

You can never lose it.

But that said, Jesus Christ is not just a deliverer from the guilt of sin.

He's not just one who imputes to us righteousness, which is His own.

He also delivers us the bondage and the power.

He raises us up.

In Philippians 1 .30 it says,

"...and unites us to Christ.

By His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and

righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.".

That's a summation of salvation.

And it's all in Christ.

You know that person.

You are a sign of the righteousness of Jesus Christ for all

eternity.

But you're also regenerated.

And you're sanctified.

Your life is sanctified.

And you walk

in the path

to the will of God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Because in knowing Him, we become conformed to His image,

to be sanctified.

From that, we can't be justified.

And Calvin said that.

Calvin said, do you know what's in justification?

He said, first of all, you have to know Christ.

Secondly, know Him as your

sanctification.

And know Him as your sanctification.

In order to know justification, we must know Christ.

Repent of sin and turn from our rebellion.

And from this world,

to merit salvation, or religious

work, or ministry.

If you don't turn, then somehow you can

work and earn your way to heaven.

By grace you are saved through faith, that not of yourselves, it's

that no man should.

Vote.

That repudiation of legalism, we

call lawlessness, antinomianism, that rebellion against God,

the discipleship teaching, because he

makes it very clear that a true believer, not

someone who just professes Him and says, Lord, Lord, as he says in

Matthew 7.

Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven.

But he who does.

It's not just a

professed

submission to

righteousness.

We are transformed to be made into the image of Jesus Christ.

And then the day is coming, as it says in 1 Corinthians 30, of redemption,

utterly transformed and

righteousness

removed, and we will live in a state of eternity.

Amen.

And we've got to go to our final break right now, and obviously I think that we've got to get this episode of Iron

Trip and Zion Radio on sermon audio, because that's one of the best sermons encapsulating the

gospel that I've ever heard.

And I would love for everybody listening to share this program and that

powerful message from Dr. Webster, especially share it with your Catholic friends so that they can

hear the stark contrast between the gospel of the holy scriptures and the

gospel of the idolatrous and superstitious

false church of Rome.

But we are going to be coming back, God willing, in a matter of minutes with our final segment of

today's program, and we'll be seeking to have your questions answered by Dr. Webster.

So don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back right after these messages with more.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

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It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

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That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

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Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And if you go to cvbbs .com, find out about the offer they are currently

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If you purchase $50 or more, you're going to be receiving a very valuable book on

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And in the days to come, we'll be more descriptive of that book.

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And we'll be giving a more detailed description of that in the days to come.

But that is going to be the offer for November for those in the

Iron Sharpens Iron audience who purchase $50 or more from cvbbs .com.

But tomorrow we'll have more details on that book.

And we are here with the final segment of our interview with Dr. William Webster.

And if you'd like to join us on the air before we run out of time, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

Chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

And I have a question for you, Dr. Webster.

I usually don't read the entire name of individuals writing in.

But since this is a pastor of a church with an excellent reputation for biblical

orthodoxy, I figured I will, as I typically do with pastors who

write in questions, I figured I'd give him a plug.

Pastor Chris Powell of the Covenant Baptist Church of Toronto,

he has a question for you.

And he says, Hello, Bill, I have greatly appreciated your work as it has helped me in my study of the

Reformation and Roman Catholicism.

My question has to do with a common claim that Martin Luther and the Reformers' assertion of the imputation of

Adam's sin and the imputation of Christ's righteousness to believers is a theological novelty

which the Reformers invented.

For example, I have been listening to a video by a popular writer on the early church named

David Burkott, or Burkot, I don't know how to pronounce that, B -E -R -C -O -T, in a series,

What the Early Christians Believed About Imputed Righteousness, which seemed to suggest,

that seemed to suggest, he says that twice, that the entire early church didn't take the

view that Luther did.

So I was wondering what your thoughts would be on this issue, thank you.

Did the entire early church not believe in what Luther taught as far as imputed righteousness?

To

make right

in the Greek

precise

theological definitions that you find in the controversy of the Reformation, the answer is no, because it

wasn't a controversy at the time.

When you got into the issue with Pelagius and Augustine, for example, they'd be precise,

that's where you

get the

precise,

that's exactly what happened at the Reformation.

When you have a recovery of the word of God in the original languages and you understand

the word of God in the original languages, and the

teaching of it's right there,

writings, this

becomes, when you go back into the writings of the

refined Christian teaching

in Christ alone, and they don't define,

they

don't define it

in the, and you

look at,

Augustine, for example, said, a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life,

but by faith in Jesus Christ.

Not by merits of deeds, but by free grace.

It's not the same.

It's salvation for us.

Here, Rea Partier

said, solely by faith in Christ.

The issue is whether you're in Christ, that you are

a lost sinner, unrighteous and ungodly.

The only hope of salvation you have,

united to him, therefore it is by faith, and

make us righteous in

him.

And that

is why

the

reformer,

Augustine,

alone by grace alone, is somehow novelty.

This is not necessary to deal

with that, to

tell people, if you're coming to Christ, it means your life is going to be transformed.

You're going to live a holy life.

So the overall view of salvation that the early church had was that you're justified in Christ, and then that

will bear a walk of holiness before God.

That does run, you find these parallel streams, running side by side with one another.

But it is a total misrepresentation to suggest that the early church had no

concept at all of faith alone, grace alone, Christ alone.

All right, well, thank you, Pastor Chris.

And by the way, you are going to receive, as a free gift, from Christian

Resources, a copy of The Gospel of the Reformation, Salvation from the Guilt and

Power of Sin, by our guest, Dr. William Webster.

And that will be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

So we thank Todd and Patty Jennings at cvbbs .com for shipping out all of our

winners in our audience, their free Bibles, books, DVDs, CDs, and everything else they win by submitting questions.

Thank you so much, Pastor Chris Powell of Covenant Baptist Church in Toronto, and we hope

that you keep listening to and spreading the word about Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

We have Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, who says, Congratulations, Chris.

I wasn't sure we'd make it to this day.

I'm so glad you're having Bill Webster on as your guest.

He really helps bring things full circle.

Why, it seems like only yesterday that Pastor Joe LoSarto tipped me off about this interesting guy out on Long Island with a

unique Reformed talk show.

Now here he is asking his question to you, Dr. Webster.

What is Dr. Webster's assessment of the current pope?

Does this unusual papacy have any implications for how Bible -believing Christians might best

share the gospel with Roman Catholics?

Interesting.

I think that this is a good way to challenge our more conservative and traditionalist Catholic friends about the

papal infallibility, because it seems that they are very silent in public about

this pope.

But if you could comment.

Well, there's obviously a lot of people

who would put it that way

because he's in a

direction that is very well

understood in terms of human sexuality, in

terms of the family.

He's out, I

guess, in some sense of mercy,

you know, to not take a firm stand on homosexuality when the church

has traditionally been very strong, and to suggest that he cannot be a judge.

And no man, obviously we're not saying we can be a judge, but the Word of God is already judged.

You can take your stand on the Word of God.

It's very clear, concerning to a

lot of people.

You just

see

things in my

mind,

infallible,

he

can't err, he has

error in the minds of many.

I don't know what to say from that standpoint.

You have to take your stand on the Word of God.

You know,

to say he's not speaking

to that man about his...

In fact, I want to organize a debate with a

conservative Roman Catholic apologist on the theme, is Pope

Francis a safe and faithful shepherd and guide?

And I want to see if I get any takers on that theme from a conservative Roman Catholic apologist.

Is Pope Francis a safe and faithful shepherd and guide?

I asked my friend Robert Syngenis that question, if he would be willing to debate that

theme.

This is when he was in my studio about a year ago, and he said, is that a trick question?

But Roman Catholics think they somehow escape the

heresies of Pope Francis by claiming, well, he hasn't declared

anything ex cathedra that would be in disagreement with historic Roman

Catholicism, but that does not take into consideration the fact that

millions of people view him as a safe and faithful shepherd, so therefore nearly

anything he says is going to be taken seriously by many naive

Catholics as the right way to go to follow and be obedient to

Christ.

Am I not right?

Yeah,

it's a murky thing.

He's come out with certain things, and he's wishy -washy.

But I don't

know what you

do as a

spoken ex cathedra.

And that has hardly ever happened in the history of the Church, though, so how could you view this person as a shepherd

of the flock, of the body of Christ, when he could be spewing all kinds of

heresy just because he doesn't announce it ex cathedra?

The last one was in the 1950s, correct?

The last dogmatic proclamation.

That was the Assumption of Mary.

Right.

Yeah, by Pius XII.

So, I mean, it's really absurd that they would view this man as their vicar of Christ, as their shepherd, when

he could basically say nearly anything he wants, as long as he doesn't say anything ex cathedra.

That would be troubling to their consciences.

I don't think he's going to say anything he wants.

You look back in history, you go back to the Renaissance papacy, and the people who claimed these bishops of Rome

as their shepherd, these men were scandalous.

I mean, I'm not kidding.

I know, I know what you mean.

Oh, you go back and you read the account of these men, and there is an entire

probably 100 -year, 11th and

11th centuries called the Pornography.

It defines the papacy.

You know, close second to

it, corrupt men.

They're not concerned in the least about the commitment that they're supposed to have to

the Church.

Okay, we better move on to some other questioners.

Thank you, Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

You've also won a free copy of the Gospel of the Reformation.

Please make sure we get your full mailing address.

We have David in Ada, Ohio.

Are the Roman Catholics in the pew taught what was decided in the Council of Trent?

I'm assuming that would be according to or depending upon what parish you're in, right,

Dr. Webster?

What was the question again, Chris?

Are the Roman Catholics in the pew taught what was decided in the Council of Trent?

I know that even way back in the 1970s when I was in grammar school,

because this was after Vatican II, not long after Vatican II, and

even as I remember as a teenager from time to time visiting the Church when I had really abandoned

any meaningful relationship with Catholicism in the 80s, I don't remember anything like that

coming from the podium there in the Roman Catholic Church that I was a member of.

In fact, I can distinctly remember the last parish priest I had as a Roman Catholic

saying from the pulpit, we're all God's children, gay, straight, you name it.

I can remember that was the exact phrase he used, so hardly that was not somebody who would be echoing Trent.

But anyway, wouldn't it be depending upon the parish?

It would depend on the parish and the priest, but what you can say is that when you read a Roman Catholic catechism,

what you have is a synopsis of what the Council of Trent

taught without knowing it's Trent.

Yeah, but you're going to be getting contradictory information as well, because at the time of Trent, they didn't believe that Muslims

were adoring the same true God that they do.

No, that would be anathema to Trent.

No way.

What you have here is an evolution of the Church's teaching and its tradition,

that you have to be in conformity with the Church,

and that is where they decreed papal infallibility.

They stood up to oppose on the basis of the tradition and history of the Church.

They said tradition

and

history, we're looking at the living,

and therefore if this is decreed now, centuries

preceding,

it's right there in the catechism.

Most Roman

Catholics, they don't

know

the anathemas.

If you do not,

if you question in the least any of these, you're no longer Roman Catholic and you're excommunicated.

Yes, and I've had even traditionalist Catholics tell me different things about my own

spiritual state.

Patrick Madrid told me that since I was born and raised a Catholic and apostatized from it, that I am

in very serious peril and in realistic danger and probability of going to

hell, whereas others who are either equally conservative as he is, or more,

have said, hey, born a Catholic, baptized a Catholic, you're still Catholic, pal.

So, you know, it's, and of course they don't even have certainty or

a full assurance that they will be in heaven anyway.

Even they who are Roman Catholic.

Isn't that the sin of presumption, if you believe that you, with certainty, that you're going to heaven?

It is a sin from their standpoint of presumption.

No man can know.

My sheep hear my voice, I know them, they follow me, and I give eternal life.

Amen.

And we have Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says

something that a previous listener said is confusing to me.

That would be Pastor Chris Powell.

I understand that the Catholics reject forensic justification as a legal fallacy, but

I thought that they all believed in the imputed sin that we receive from Adam

at conception, because they believe in original sin.

If you could clarify this.

They do believe in sin, but that's one of the controversies between the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern Orthodox do not believe in original sin, but the Western Church does.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches original sin.

Christ died for original sin.

And they believe that sin is imputed to all of humanity.

Yes, you were born a sinner.

That's right.

So there was something, I guess, in Pastor Chris's question before, where he was saying that both things, the imputed

righteousness of Christ and the imputed sin, are considered both to be legal fallacies.

It's only one of those that's considered illegal.

It's just one, yeah.

And I don't think Chris meant it that way.

But, yeah,

we are.

Christ, our sin was

imputed to him.

His righteousness is imputed to us.

Well, thank you, Ronald, in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island.

Please give us your full mailing address so we can ship you out a free copy of the Gospel of the Reformation,

compliments of Christian Resources, the publishing ministry of our guest, Dr. William Webster, and also compliments of

CVBBS .com.

We'll be shipping that out to you.

We have time for one more quick question.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, how do we let

our Roman Catholic friends realize that to be an ecumenist means to abandon

even their own dogma, that it is a fallacy that we can have spiritual unity

until they repent of their idolatry and false gospel?

Well, their perspective on ecumenism is that you're going to come over to their side.

They're not going to compromise.

And so what happens is these other meetings

with Roman Catholics have never compromised, and they're not going to

compromise.

And where you have unity, somebody

has to compromise.

And what happens is if you can be a Roman Catholic and you can embrace the ECT Accords

and say that you can come into a unity, and not

just fighting to be

sinful, but when we start talking,

nobody who is true to what the Word of God teaches

or who has dogmatized

in its counsels will decrees for ecumenism.

And we are out of time, brother, and I want our listeners to know that the website for Christian resources is

christiantruth .com, christiantruth .com.

And once again, the website for Grace Bible Church of Battleground Washington is

gracebiblebattleground .org, gracebiblebattleground .org.

If you could hold on, Dr. Webster, I want to schedule you for another interview on your other book, The Church of

Rome at the Bar of History, the Banner of Truth publication.

Will you hold on, please?

And thank you so much for being our guest today, Dr. Webster.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a

sinner.