The Driving Line 5/3/2023

Well, greetings and welcome to the driving line a little bit weird to be doing this today because we're gonna do a dividing line Here in just a couple hours. Well, Lord willing. In fact, let me mention real quickly on that front Really really disappointed that we didn't get to do it yesterday our first one from the new studio, but the bandwidth it was just location and That forced us.

I think that was providential that forced us to look at other Ways of doing things we had picked up Starlink last year. Rich didn't like it and we never really did much to see if there was some way to improve it and So now I think we're gonna really have to think along those lines.

When he says Even when it has freeze frames as far as the video goes the audio stays solid and that's 99 of time. That's all that really matters. So we'll have that as a backup for tonight should the bandwidth in the weather whether it's from the camp Wi-Fi, which last night was non-existent or Cellular we have a 5g unit in in the RV Doesn't work for us.

Then. We'll we'll go with Starlink and we'll do what we need to do anyway. So I'm sure Rich is gonna be annoyed that he has to get this thing posted even before the dividing line. But we do need to do it that way.

Christian Nationalism, Sacralism, and the Church-State Question

I Wanted to do a quick commentary in light of what happened yesterday and this morning I Believe me. I see everybody saying I'm just going to Mute Christian nationalism on my Twitter feed. Okay, I believe me I get it.

The Problem is I think it's being handled really poorly in general from a number of different perspectives but We we cannot escape the reality of Washington State and Minnesota is gonna California all the leftist states will be doing the same thing.

We are we are well past the tipping point in our society where Evil is being promoted In an amazing fashion and I can't leave my phone up there will fry in the Sun anyway. The little phrase Christ or chaos Isn't just a nice short phrase it's true and there's a reason why it's true.

It's true because we live in God's world designed on The basis of God's will he's our creator he's made us and Our society has decided that every single good thing. He's given to us husbands and wives Grandfathers and grandmothers grandkids being a son or a daughter sisters brothers.

Human sexuality. Holding a newborn baby. Everything that is good and beautiful our society is that we are going to destroy everything everything. It's the chaos part. And We are in that transition period and it's rapidly accelerating.

There's we can't Avoid dealing with these issues. We cannot avoid dealing with what what is the church's role? When a society is Committing complete suicide. Do we just sit back and go? That's gonna happen, you know, that's that's cool.

And What what do you do when the state comes after your kids. What do you say? To evil governors and evil mayors. When they are promoting this kind of utterance self-destructive insanity. Do we say anything or is it just well?

You do a lot better if you were a Christian. Do we communicate to them the content of what God's law says is their Responsibility that they will be judged for or do you even believe they'll be judgment.

I know Christians that do not believe that Mayors and Legislators and governors and presidents and everything else that they will be judged for what they did as Those in those on in those offices, I I do know people who believe that.

I don't know how you Read scripture. Well, okay. Well, I was gonna say you certainly have to skip all the prophets. But no you go to you go to the New Testament and Paul's talking to you know Festus and Felix and whoever will listen as to what their responsibility for God is and the coming judgments.

So there's just no way to get around it. We have to be doing these things it's our calling so we need to have thought through the ramifications of the pushback. What more do people say in the pushback?

So anyway, I know That right now a lot of people are burned out on the subject. I get it. But There are things happening That I think need to be discussed and thought about. Now rather than waiting till they get really really bad a little bit later on.

Mere Christendom, Sacralism, and Historical Memory

So yesterday the cannon Cannon press dropped the recording of Doug Wilson and I Chatting about his new book mere Christendom now mere Christendom is a phrase that Doug's been using for a long long time.

I don't like the phrase as a Baptist As a Church historian It seems to me that Christendom as a term is generally used to refer to Lots of periods of time in the history of the church that really really are embarrassing bad things happened in defense of quote-unquote Christendom.

And so you got it. You got to get over some serious barriers To discuss quote-unquote Christendom, but it's something Doug does. I read his book. I listened to his book actually I hear where he's coming from.

I agree with a vast majority of What he's saying, you know you we have magistrates today and they are. They have no grounds to stand on they have no morals they They have no objective truth. They have no objective ethics.

They got nothing. And their worldview provides them with nothing. There's there's they're stuck and So, what do we do? What can we do? What must we do? Okay but There are issues and so I raised the issue of sacralism now.

Anybody The group that went with me in 2017 to Germany knows the very first night in Berlin. We I talked about sacralism. I talked about the fact that many of the men that we are going to be studying We're gonna be seeing the events their life where it happened things like that Would never have extended to us the right hand of fellowship in fact, they would have kicked us out of their cities or maybe burned as the state and.

And There were lots of people in the room that were just sort of looking at me and Now just for hope open revelation here. That tour that we did was led was done by Sovereign cruises sovereign luxury experiences, whatever the term was and hence Michael Fallon was With us.

Michael Fallon arranged if you've seen the picture of me preaching From Luther's pulpit in the castle church in Wittenberg. Mike arranged that. That was a bucket list thing to do I can assure you to actually preach from Luther's pulp.

But not just I didn't just deliver a lecture. I preached a sermon From Luther's pulpit and that was a tremendous tremendous Privilege and honor and everything else. I'm very thankful to Mike for arranging that.

But after I gave that presentation in Berlin, he and his staff they sort of waved me over and they're like, man We've done this with a was a lot of big names. I could name some of the names they've done this with.

No one's ever said that I've never said what well about the Reformers and the fact that they you know would have. Maybe like killed you. You know. And I'm like, well, but that's the truth that that's there's there's no way around that.

That's the reality and if you don't tell the whole truth, you're creating a caricature. It's a cartoon version of the Reformation not the real things that you just gotta understand man. And again, we could go over the names.

They just they never talk about Reformers in that way. It's always just all the positive. I said, well, there's plenty of positive, but You've got to tell the truth what was going on and about how sacralism impacted The church and the Reformation and the direction of the Reformation the speed of the Reformation all of that and.

So, you know, this is nothing new to me. I was talking about sacral is the very first church history class. I ever taught at Grand Canyon College I just been made scholar-in-residence by dr. Bill Williams and I taught church history and We went over sacralism we went over this church-state relationship Constantinianism.

How that developed all that kind of stuff now that was in a different context. And I'm not saying that the context of Wittenberg is Identical to the context today. But I am saying that if if we're going to look to the past for how Christians in the past have dealt with things.

To try to gain wisdom not simply to simply to slavishly follow them. But to go okay. This is how they did things in the past. This is what they were thinking. This is what the results were. Then we've got it we've got to honestly deal with Fritz Erba.

Or Ian Hutter or the very large number of Baptist martyrs. Who died not just at the hands of the Inquisitors of Rome, which they did but also at the hands of Bible-believing Reformed Orthodox Men who burned fellow Christians at the stake and And believed they were doing Christ's will.

They believed they were doing Christ's will and so we have to talk about. Okay, how do you keep that from happening again? Because that wasn't Christ's will. And if you say it wasn't Christ's will then you've got to answer the question how could they have known that at that time and so We had that conversation and I thought it was a helpful conversation.

The Sacralism Debate and the Need for Historical Honesty

Well, so that drops. That that goes out on the on the net and Only a few hours later. Here is this. And I was sent it. I didn't see it. But here is this Conversation between the two Wolf's William and Stephen and there.

And I I could again I'm driving right now. So It's best not to pull up Graphics and screenshots and stuff like that just simply for safety's sake but William has said Sacralism isn't a thing now. I you know, I'm not a big fan of modern slang.

Youthful slang whatever but you're left to interpret that it's it's not a thing. Well, of course it's a thing I mean and It's a relevant thing and anybody who's talking about Christendom and he was talking about Christian nationalism.

Whatever you have to deal with. What has happened in the past? When a specific relationship developed that blurred the lines between church and state and We can talk about sphere sovereignty, but you have to talk about where you're getting that and why didn't the sacralist reformers Get the same thing then.

Why didn't they understand that why didn't they practice that? You know Doug has talked about flogging but Baptists. Okay. This is we shouldn't flog Baptist. Well, they didn't just flog Baptist they Cut Baptist tongues out and burn them at the stake.

They drowned them In in the river in Zurich gave them their third baptism. So What happened then why did that happen then how can you avoid that what's the foundation? What's the this is important stuff.

And here's William Wolfe going sacralism isn't a thing and then the other wolf the author of the book for crying out loud Um Responds to him by saying I've never even heard anybody using that term. I think James White made it up.

Really okay, I made it up. I probably first heard it. Read it from Leonard Verdine when I read reformers and her stepchildren anatomy of a hybrid. Met the man talked to me. He was over a hundred years old when I met him sharp as a tack.

In fact, I'll go ahead and tell the story. I met him at his home in Apache Junction. I think it's where he died. He was at least it was 101 or 103. I forget which one it was. This was in the early 90s probably 1990 itself and he gave me a quote from Luther off top of his head and I was surprised.

I'd never seen I said Luther said that it gets this twinkle in his eyes. He says would you like the quotation in German Latin or Dutch? And he wasn't talking about digging out some papers. He was talking about giving me the quotation in German Latin or Dutch.

He had it memorized all three over a hundred years old brilliant man, and That's probably where I first heard it. So 30 almost 35 years ago Um was probably when I was introduced to the term initially and So the idea that I made it up is just it's so silly.

It's childish, but it's coming from the guy who wrote the book and you can't have thought through the issue of Christian nationalism without thinking through the issues of sacralism and If you haven't even exposed yourself to a wide variety of opinions in that area then Aren't you saying my book on this subject is just simply my thoughts.

It's really not thought through. I Mean, I was stunned. I really was and so I Responded to the tweets said Sacralism is a thing Sacralism is what put Fritz Erba in a hole for seven years until he died.

And I linked to The video I did at the Castle the Vartberg Castle and It is ironic. Certainly not planned that standing right next to me in the video is Josh Bice because he was on the same trip and The person recording the video was Michael Fallon.

All right again just for full Revelation here and Then I also linked to the talk that I gave on Lutheran sacralism on Reformation Day October 31st 2017. And so you can listen to both of those so this is not anything new and Steve Wolfe's like well, I don't listen to your content.

Well, that's nice. I don't care. It's this is it has nothing to do with my content this has to do with Important issues that must be thought through by serious thinkers serious Christian thinkers. So this morning and it was a lengthy thread and so Probably want to work through all of it.

But again Wisdom not to look it up right now Even though traffic is light. Anyway It's very windy though Stephen Wolfe has a Series of tweets that To me is very very important because basically what he's saying is look, you know it If this is really gonna happen, it can't be based upon just simply an exegetical argument from post-millennialists.

But it has to it has to deal with natural laws. He is a Thomist. He's a Thomist and it's all of a sudden. Oh, ha ha. Well, I knew that before I knew that. And I'm like and I knew that from the book and I'm like, yeah, you know this is relevant to What we've been debating in another arena for quite some time in regards to natural theology natural revelation natural law versus special revelation and Sufficiency of Scripture and and It's really obvious Painfully obvious that The issues related to sacralism Thomas Aristotle Roman Catholicism The role of church and state that grew out of that and Thomas's Importance in that these are all connected big time connected.

And so if that's where wolf is coming from then we've got to go. Hey, wait a minute when this was tried before and you had this concept of natural law Aristotle's Not only metaphysics but Teachings on morality and ethics and things like that and what came of all of that was a mess a real mess and so even if you Go, yeah, you know Christendom 2 .0.

It sounds like a sounds like a good idea that funk was a big old fucking book. You know, it's spring in Texas. I'm doing 70 miles an hour it's 10 miles an hour below the speed limit but Still at 70 miles per hour.

Some of these bugs in it's just Yeah, it leaves a mark anyway. What was I talking about? Oh, yeah clearly if we're going to Talk about Christendom 2 .0. I mean if you might go, you know, we that's what we need.

Okay but The only way that works. And this is what Doug and I were saying so you can disagree disagree with Doug and I if you want to but the only way that actually Comes into practice in a meaningful fashion is as a result of a massive work of the Spirit of God.

We're talking massive revival. We're talking sweeping move with the Spirit of God changing hearts and minds. Because you see that's not what you had with Christendom 1 .0. You had natural law and you had that whole concept and that's what led to things like the Inquisition.

That's what led to men claiming the name of Christ While torturing other men who claim the name of Christ and Thinking they're doing the right thing. That's sensual. It's you you can't skip that for crying out loud.

You can't just put that off to the side. So it just seems to me. What we've watched over the past couple weeks is just some if you can't Help but cancel. Someone like myself who's a theonomic post-millennialist for crying out loud if you can't keep me in the camp.

Give it up give it up because you're you're gonna end up with a Christian nationalist movement that can meet for your national convention the back room at the Holiday Inn. You're not you're not building consensus.

You're not you're not making your case In such a fashion as to change hearts and minds and to build foundations look the the post-millennial hope. Results in a person being willing to lay foundations that they know will not end up with a building on them for quite some time.

That's not what I'm seeing. I'm not seeing that level of maturity. I'm not seeing that level of patience. I'm seeing a bunch of young guys Who are building a brand and building an audience and if they want to Be get offensive.

They don't care if they're talking about their elders. They don't care if they're talking about people from whom they have learned theology in the past. They're willing to cancel anybody who will not agree with them on every jot and tittle right now and that is foolishness that is Foolishness I'm telling you right now.

That is the way to make this entire Conversation a complete joke in ten years. Ten years from now people you sit around go. Yeah, remember that one. Wow. Boy, those guys went off the rails didn't oh, yeah.

Wow, you know, that's how to do it. That's how to do it. I Listened to the statement and I agree with the vast majority Of that statement and I think it would be really worthwhile for everybody even the people who are burned out To Think through what it says to have discussions about it.

I was thinking about doing that on the program and going through sections and going okay, you know. Here's some why some people would object to this and some other people object to that. What do you have positive in its place, etc, etc.

We can't just simply have a wall. I don't know show you mr. Schultz because that's what we've had for a long long time. We all need to have some position on these things. That's true. That's great, that's fine love to do it but it can't be done in this context.

Where people are memeing at each other? And I had a guy I Saw a tweet today I've muted All the g3 guys and I've blocked and muted James White. He's just not good for my faith right now, and I'm like regarding what I've hardly addressed this.

I Mean I I knew we were gonna do the sweater best dialogue. So I knew that some of this was coming from that context which I'm which I knew meant it was going to be dealt with seriously and in a mature fashion and without silly childish memes.

And so I've sort of been watching this stuff from the sidelines pretty much. Certainly thinking about it certainly being concerned about it but I can't even imagine if If you're willing to block and stop listening to people from whom you've learned so much of your theology over something like this.

Then what you didn't learn was maturity. Because if you're memeing about this stuff if you're saying well, you know what if people aren't gonna Agree with us. We're just gonna meme harder childishness absolute Childishness, it's impatience.

It is not spirit-born and it will result. Like I said, and you're having national conference in the back room of the holiday. Because it will not it will not be blessed by God. So can can we have these conversations without the immaturity?

Can we have these conversations? Without Silly memes and and stuff like that. Can we pull that off? It needs to happen it really does there there has to be we need to have a consistent and large scale response to the moral chaos and the evil of Washington State and the city of Chicago and and Everything where we are perverting everything good that God has given us we there needs to be a Consistent and clear and firm response to all that no question about it and it's not going to come from memes.

It's not gonna come from memes. So I'm pretty disappointed To be honest with you When I provided correction to the Wolf's The response was not good. William said well, I meant it's not I'm not a thing today.

Well Okay, that's not what you said a B. That's not the context in which we were talking with Doug B and C. Yes, it is still a thing today because you have to be able to differentiate between Sacralism and quote-unquote Christian nationalism.

So all of that The proper response from Williams would have been To have not made the comment in the first place, but then Stephen Wolf. I was just like really He just doubled down. He was just Dancing around in his responses.

Well, he's really upset about this I'm sorry, but as I sit here right now, I Had to ask someone how old is this man? Because he's he's not acting mature in any in any way at all. This is this is not good.

This is not a not a good look at all so Serious disappointment there on my part but that doesn't change the fact that We need to be talking about what it means to live faithfully as God's judgment comes and build for the time when God tears down.

What needs to be torn down? Shakes what needs to be shaken? So what cannot be shaken remains. And we've got to focus on what cannot be shaken and what cannot be shaken is Not going to be built up by dividing the body of Christ by immature people Who will not be patient and lay the foundation that needs to be laid and I'm saying this is the person who's pretty much in agreement with a lot of the foundational issues and Yet, I recognize you cannot present this to people in this kind of snide Meme filled Social media type situation you can't do it.

You can't do it. It's it's disaster in the making. It's disaster in the making. So there you go. There's our driving line for today. I'll try to get this to rich as soon as possible and I appreciate your listening in and Like I said be listening later today.

Don't want to be talking about this on the program today got other important stuff to be talking about but there you go. Thanks for listen. We'll see you next time. God bless.