September 23, 2016 Show with Anthony Uvenio on “Love-Fueled Apologetics: Rescue from Religious Error is a High Act of Love” PLUS Bruce Bennett on “God and Government: A Christian Response to Politics”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed when we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via Livestreaming.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Friday on

this 23rd day of September 2016 and before I introduce my guests and my

topic or topics plural.

I just want to let everybody know that I received the very sad news just about Two

hours before my program today, perhaps even less.

The sad news which is buffered by sweetness that this morning my very dear friend and precious brother in

Christ Don Blinn Pastor of First Baptist Church in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York went home to

be with his Lord God Savior King and friend Jesus Christ whose grace he proclaimed

unwaveringly and passionately for many decades.

Don was 87 when God called him home he baptized my precious late wife Julie

and was her very first pastor and Gave her away at our wedding and nearly 20 years later

prayed most beautifully at her funeral and he was a constant source of mentoring and

Encouragement and at times loving chastisement when needed to me.

Beginning in my earliest years of my new faith in Christ.

He had a he had very little formal education and was primarily a self -taught man with an awe -inspiring

Encyclopedic mind and I have rarely met a man so prepared and eager to meet his God in

eternity as Don Blinn.

Please pray for his lovely wife Marie their children grandchildren great grandchildren and all the saints at First

Baptist Church of Lindenhurst, Long Island and I was very

pleased to hear after hearing of Don's passing.

I was very happy to hear from one of his daughters Debbie that his entire family Was

surrounding him at his bedside at home while he was resting peacefully when Don

Took his last breath before opening his eyes in the presence of his

Messiah and I was very comforted to hear that and Although I am

NOT charismatic. I don't want anybody to get the wrong idea about modern revelation.

It took me aback because Just last night. I had insomnia and

was wondering if The Lord was going to enable me to get back to Long Island, New York to visit Don

Bland before he went home to glory.

And I didn't know that Don was sick or anything like that I just knew that he was an elderly elderly

man.

And it's just amazing to me that when I turned on my computer the first thing that I saw was

a note from another friend who was also a member of Don's Church

years ago and She had informed me of Don's passing so I just had to

give that tribute to a precious friend who had a lot to do With my own spiritual

and theological growth as a especially as a new Christian About 30 years ago.

And today I am delighted to have on the air someone

who is a Relatively new friend in Christ, although it's been a number of years

our friendship doesn't go back to the 1980s as mine did with Don Bland, but I have been delighted to

get to know and Enjoy the friendship and fellowship and brotherhood of

Anthony Eugenio.

Anthony Eugenio is co -founder of an organization called New York apologetics.

They have been involved in organizing conferences and theological debates and so on in fact,

I had the honor and privilege of moderating a theological debate that Anthony will tell you

about in a moment and I in turn am going to God willing have Anthony moderate a

debate that I am currently working on here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania that I hope occurs within the next

several months, but Today we're going to be talking about love fueled apologetics

Rescue from religious error is a high act of love and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to on and sharpens

iron Anthony Eugenio.

Thanks again, Chris.

I really appreciate.

The friendship and having me on this is just a real blessing for me.

And just to let you know I know you a lot longer than you know me because and you'll hear this as part of my

testimony as I was Growing in the Lord.

I started attending the debates that James White was doing on Long Island.

Which were supported by you and moderated by you.

So I used to know you shake your hand and all that stuff well before I was an apologist.

Wow.

That's good to know.

In fact, I don't know if I ever knew that until just now.

Yeah, no, that's that's great to know.

Well, it's I will never know how the Lord has used Those many debates

and conferences that I arranged with.

Dr James are white and I'm sure he will never know to the full extent how many lives were touched and blessed

and perhaps even souls Who came to salvation as a result of those events

and we at least for ten years had Roman Catholic Debates on Long Island at

various venues and we branched out into debates with liberals and

homosexual activists and Oneness Pentecostals and Muslims.

In fact, I arranged dr. White's very first debate with a Muslim Hamza Abdul Malik,

which took place at the Bible Baptist Church of Syosset, which I believe is called Shelter Rock Church now and

A lot of fond memories of Dr. White and I hope to revive some debates with him

as well in the future.

Well.

This issue that we are discussing today.

It also involves your personal testimony of salvation.

Out of Roman Catholicism and one of the reasons that I titled our topic today love fueled

apologetics.

Rescue from religious error is a high act of love is that people as you know, Anthony

immediately have a Knee -jerk reaction when they hear a discussion like we're going to have.

They immediately think that you whoever is speaking

apologetically and I don't mean in the modern sense of the term of apologizing or saying

you're sorry, but anybody who is explaining Why a certain

religious belief is in serious error and defending a.

Biblical.

Opposing view.

When people hear that kind of a discussion they immediately recoil and Say this is bigotry.

This is arrogance. This is Sectarianism, this is pride.

This is just all kinds of.

Horrible.

You know accusations could be hurled against people like you and I who are having a discussion like this

but You I know wholeheartedly agree that true apologetics when done in a right

spirit is fueled by love love for God first of all love for his

word and Love for the person that you are trying to correct who is in

serious error.

Am I right?

Absolutely, I mean, you know, we we demand truth in every single go to the bank

from the bank.

Money is in the bank when we go to the doctor and was sick.

We demand that he tell us what the actual diagnosis of our condition is and if either one of those

people lie to us We would say that they're not loving.

It's so funny that we just don't apply this when it comes to the spiritual and faith aspect

of our life.

Why would be we'd be upset if someone was to tell us something that is.

Yes, and isn't it interesting.

And this happens over and over and over again?

When people will sometimes even foaming at the mouth and yelling at you.

They will say how dare you who do you think you are?

You're nothing but a judgmental arrogant proud bigot.

And right there.

That person doesn't even realize that they made a very serious judgment call upon you.

Exactly.

Yeah, most most people like to you know, they'll say oh, it's it's not right to judge other people.

So in my typical fair on to judge and I say, of course, it's

wrong to judge me.

Thank you to judge me.

But then when I call you out on it, listen, we're called to judge by Scripture.

Mm -hmm, you know.

Don't don't misjudge people.

But when you judge take the log out of your own Own eye and then you can do well to take

this.

We're called to help one another now.

I agree that there are some people who are arrogant and conceited

when comes off wrong.

But if it's done in a loving spirit

and on us and respect

with infinite value and worth.

It's our duty as Christians to point them to the Savior and even people who

may think that you are wrong if those of the opposing side.

They should at least respect that you are trying to rescue their eternal souls through the grace of

God by alerting them to this Dangerous and deadly error that they're holding on to.

Certainly, but you know what happens and obviously scripturally we're coming from the same point of view, you know,

righteousness.

It's our evil so to lash

out art and their

mind the ability to

no matter what

the reaper.

And I'm gonna give

our.

Email address if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a are n ze n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and

you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

For some reason perhaps you're asking a question about a Theological position held by your

pastors or your church and you don't know whether it's true or not.

So you'd rather not?

Identify your name and location.

That's understandable.

But if you can we would prefer that you at least give us your first name city and state and country.

Well, let's start.

Before we even get into more depth about New York apologetics.

Let's start with your beginnings the way you were raised what kind of religious atmosphere and

you know, what were the The things that the Lord had providentially brought into your life

that gradually eventually brought about a Radical change in your heart

and mind and your belief system.

Yeah, I actually was raised on Long Island.

In fact in Catholic grammar school I won the Christian Leadership Award, which you know looking back is amazing considering

that I didn't even know Christ at that point.

You know and again, that's one of the providential things that you know God has me reflect back on and he kind of gives me a

glimpse into The fact that he had me even back then in the palm of his hand and there was me in

in a certain direction now.

After I graduated high school, I find my way in life.

I was success oriented.

I was in Port

Jefferson.

It was one act.

I didn't have the love of my life.

I didn't have the woman in my life that I you know that I always dreamed a

friend of mine.

Set me up on a blind date.

Now

hold this

woman and two

months between actually talking to her and meeting her for the first the

night that I.

There's never

gonna happen.

She leaned the

whole thing the whole plate.

Was this.

Was this Frank.

Was this Frank's steakhouse many times.

Oh, yeah, that was one of my brother John.

In fact, my brother John may be still listening To my show.

He is a Roman Catholic and sometimes we bump heads.

But he I remember him raving about paces.

I've never was able to get there Before moving out of Long Island, but who knows maybe if it's still there.

I'll go there one time.

God.

I'm sorry.

Oh, if you're out, we'll do that.

But As we were as we were eating it has

my attention.

God put a pretty girl in front of me.

She has my attention.

She mentions Jesus to me.

That is the first time God got my attention with the food and the pretty girl and

now all of a sudden Jesus gets mentioned.

Now living in New York Italian.

Out at a nice steakhouse the last thing I'm thinking I'm gonna hear about tonight

and dropped her off that night.

And the next day I was

she talked about you and I just like hmm.

Okay, so I really didn't pay it

any mind.

But as I ended up

going.

And it was amazing because every time the pastor gave a sermon it seemed like he was reading my

mail.

To the point where I I looked at her and I said, are you telling him things about me?

I'm saying this is not right.

This is not right.

Providence would have it as this is going on a buddy of mine.

Yeah, and it's it's a one this Pentecostal Church and now he starts questioning me about the Trinity.

Now being raised Roman Catholic, you know, I had somewhat of an understanding of what it was.

But this jeans

white the guy who

I normally work out.

What wasn't there and some other guy comes over and the guy you mind if I work out?

I'm like no good for what reason I said this out loud.

I said, you know a buddy of mine.

He's a Pentecostal and he doesn't believe in the Trinity.

Did you ever hear anything like this?

I Don't know what possessed me to say that Chris and the guy looked at me.

He goes I'm Pentecostal.

I believe in the Trinity.

Like oh, no, I don't even know what a Pentecostal is.

So.

He graciously invited me to the following week to explain it to me, so

I said, okay.

Let me let me go to house.

And he walks me into his basement.

And there was a gentleman sitting down on the couch and I sat on the far end in a chair.

And it's him and his friend and all of a sudden one guy

two guys three guys now being from New York and Italian.

What am I doing I said.

I know I can take three.

I'm not getting out of the basement and you probably didn't when you ate at that steakhouse.

You probably didn't have your back to the window either.

Read Psalm 51.

So I'm like, okay.

I don't even know where this is in the Bible.

So 51 and he says no, no,

no read it out loud.

And now I'm saying oh man, this must be the cult in this.

You're gonna you know, they're gonna.

Prick my finger and I'm in.

So out loud and There's another conversation going on in my head as

I'm reading this out loud.

I'm saying a word.

What am I gonna say?

Well, lo and behold I get to the end of the psalm and it says.

And young bulls will be slaughtered on your altar.

And with that wide open because

what

those guys

those guys didn't know

that point.

Telling me I could do it my way and be slaughtered or I could do it his way and

live.

So the one two things that we've learned that may surprise Christians is that for some reason God and his

infinite wisdom used?

A blind date with a Christian and an unbeliever and astrology to bring you to Christ.

So at that point, you know my my chin sank into my chest and I really I started to Tear up

and get emotional and I lifted my head and I said, what do you

mean?

What do you do?

Young bulls will be slaughtered on your altar to tell them how

you know I identify with bulls like a statues of both pictures of bulls.

You know my life was around like Blown away at God's

51 in that particular verse to get me to read it and

and from that moment on it was

an online for all different.

You know theological things because people were asking me questions and I was the type of person that I had to know the answer

I need to give people an answer for what I believe.

I'm not somebody who just takes things by blind faith.

So that that was my quest and one of the things that came into my mind was well.

And why would the Catholic Church not tell me what these

guys told us?

And that's when I came across James White and they

two -and -a -half boxes full of his videotaped debates.

That I watched over and over again and cassette tapes in my car.

And that's and then I started going to the debates at the Huntington townhouse.

And that's where I I came in contact with you and him and you know He really shaped my theology because every

time he's he's battling with these Roman Catholics.

He would explain that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

There's nothing covering

grace upon us that opens our eyes and opens our ears

convert us a watershed.

Thing in my life when I came to the end of nothing to do with my

salvation.

It was when I

was reading He

gave the right to become children of God who were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh.

Nor of the will and that really

again cut anything that I

was thinking about.

Me coming to the Lord, you know, it wasn't because I was smart.

It certainly wasn't because I'm good -looking because I'm not so and it wasn't because I'm charming even though I am.

You know again as I started to read Scripture Ephesians 2 8 9 you're saved by grace through faith and that not of yourself.

Not by works so that no one can boast.

Amen, I could I couldn't boast in front of my friends and say listen, you know I'm going to heaven

because I chose Jesus and this is what I did.

I got baptized.

I did this.

I did this I did this as if my resume was good enough to get me into heaven.

Mm -hmm I read by good work.

They're just so and that's I think a big difference.

Protestantism, especially reformed Protestantism.

Yes in the sense that You know, it's nothing to the crossling

Work and his work alone in my heart that causes me to be born again and compels me to

follow.

Jesus and keep his commandments.

Yeah, there are many people Roman Catholics, especially perhaps who are

Scratching their head or even getting angry and saying now wait a minute.

We agree with you on the Trinity.

We agree with you on the deity of Christ.

We agree with you on his virgin birth his sinlessness.

We agree with you that he rose bodily from the grave that he ascended into heaven

we believe that his atoning death is necessary for anyone to enter into heaven and.

They will go on and on with all these similarities, but they and they may even hear you saying

That well, we believe that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

And they may just look at that as some kind of a theological nuance, but isn't it true?

One of the reasons Why those who have come to embrace the doctrines and the gospel of the

Reformation that we get so passionate about this and we see that there is a

chasm of difference between the gospel of the Reformation and Catholicism is that we

believe that it is very obvious and And it is the logically consistent conclusion to

draw that if you have the ornate and very complicated in

works oriented and ceremonial oriented Sessor total oriented

gospel of Rome that you are robbing Christ of his glory or robbing him

of his the credit that is due only to him.

They rob him of the worship that is due only to him by even though they would never

call it worshiping Mary and the Saints that's what exactly what they're doing whether they call it that or not because when you

examine their adoration and veneration.

Of.

The of Mary and the Saints their veneration is No different than worship that the

the physical acts and the words spoken there there's nothing different about the way

that they venerate Mary and the Saints and worship God and and

the Concept of purgatory how people need to suffer in addition to Christ's

suffering in order to be purged All of these things that wouldn't you say that that is a key factor that they are robbing

Christ of his glory.

Oh.

Certainly.

It's listen when Jesus Died on the cross.

He said it is finished and that's the Greek term to tell us by which means paid in full.

Now as a good New Yorker if I told you Chris go to this restaurant when you

got there You wouldn't offer the guy money said Anthony's got my bill, right?

The very fact that you offered money would to pay for the meal.

I would go to the bathroom all the after the waiter gave the check.

You would offer the man money to pay for the bill would show that you didn't trust me and.

And what I told you to do now as far as I'm concerned Jesus paid for the meal.

I don't owe the tip you need for it.

Lock stock and barrel.

And this is this is a very.

This is a point of contention because as you know, but the issue was never

than this set.

It is the sufficiency of in and of itself is sufficient to

save me apart from my work.

Now I did a presentation at Hope Reform Baptist Church several years ago and at Bruce Bennett's conference

On the unlimited atonement and and I at the illustration that I used was when a woman goes

shopping.

Her goal is to buy something and bring it home.

If she bought something and left it in the store Would she say that she bought it

would have failed to do what what she likes to do now.

Jesus left heaven to purchase to come to earth to purchase a people for himself.

Now he either buys owns and brings you home.

Or he fails in that mission to add some kind of work to

the finished work of Jesus.

What you're saying is it's not enough.

Insufficient.

He can't save me without my help and the way I see it is any help that I offer.

Ruins the salvation that he came to bring.

That's right.

If if I tried to touch up the Mona Lisa.

You know with my paintbrush and a little bit of paint anything I do to that painting would ruin it.

It would no longer be a masterpiece.

It would be a wreck because I touched it.

Yes, and in fact put the Apostle Paul.

The only thing that we know of that the Judaizers were insisting upon In addition to everything else that

Paul believed himself Was that you had to be circumcised and that one thing?

Made Paul say that is not even a false gospel.

It's a full it's no gospel at all right, and he said that those who

proclaim such a false gospel are to be accursed.

And yet people want us over.

And over and over again, especially in the 21st century.

They want us to be nicer than Paul and they think they are nicer than Paul.

Right one of the things that really got me because at you know.

And when I when I came to know the Lord and I started, you know reading the scriptures and studying theology.

One of the things I picked up was the Roman Catholic Catechism.

And the Roman Catholic Catechism says that the Muslims together with them worship the one true

God and wards or

heaven.

Now it was odd to me that they called the excommunicated Protestants because of

our faith in Jesus without work but then Allowed Muslims

to to partake in Heaven and say that they're worshiping the one true God.

It seems like they had a Brotherhood with Muslims rather than us as Protestants.

And here we are like you said we have so much in common.

Except for the fact that we trust in Christ alone without anything added to him

for our salvation.

Right, and I can't help but be certain that If the

drafters of the modern Catholic Catechism were alive during the Council of Trent

The Council of Trent's would have pronounced a death sentence on them because that that that kind of stuff was

completely foreign.

To.

The 16th century Roman Catholicism, but we have to go to a break right now.

And if you'd like to ask a question of Anthony, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Anthony Eugenio and his testimony and more of a discussion on

his organization New York apologetics.

I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference.

He and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and

occasional guest on Chris's show.

Think I think that's what it's called.

Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new

hometown.

It is going to be a bang -up conference called the g3 conference

celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer

Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie.

Welcome Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there.

Learn more at g3 conference.

Calm g3 conference.

Thanks, Todd, I think.

See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

I'm James White of Alphan Omega Ministries.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Orinson.

If you just tuned us in our guest for the first hour is Anthony Eugenio co -founder of New York

apologetics.

We are discussing love fueled apologetics.

Rescue from religious error is a high act of love then following Anthony during our second hour 5 to

6 p .m. Eastern.

We'll be discussing God and government a Christian response to politics with our guest pastor Bruce

Bennett who ministers at Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

And He is going to be discussing his seventh annual Bible conference tonight

through Saturday in Farmingville.

So you want to stay tuned to hear more about that?

Our email address is Chris Orinson at gmail .com.

Chris Orinson at gmail .com and we have Joseph from

Ephrata Pennsylvania and I'm still a relatively new resident of Pennsylvania.

So, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly if it's a freighter or Ephrata.

Or it could be something else.

But.

Joseph.

Asks I.

Understand that your motivation behind criticizing Roman

Catholicism is Motivated from love, but don't you agree that there

are some over -the -top?

Born -again Christians who are indeed very nasty and mean -spirited when they

approach this subject and others.

I think that you can find that in any denomination.

I think that you can find that in any of any of the people in the world's religions.

Which again would just bear witness to the truth of scriptures that talk about men having

Thinly sinned in this world and because of that we need a Savior now.

Just when someone comes to know the Lord obviously.

Everything about them doesn't change all at once, you know, I often ask people when I start

How do you marry how do you unmarinate a steak?

You know at my life in mind I came to know the Lord at 33 years old and I was marinating in the world for that long.

How do you just unmarinate?

Well, the way you unmarinate a steak is that you and put it in the new marinade and

over the course of time the new Marinate seeps in so that's what you can as you

continue to read God's Word participate in church and Grow,

you're not growing in

this doesn't take inventory and

say okay.

Why am I not growing?

So oh

and don't I

know it?

We involved with your life, which is the way I think it should be and and they practice

church discipline.

Mm -hmm.

I know that is that is taboo in today's.

American Christianity church discipline.

What are you talking about?

Yeah.

And modern evangelicalism.

That's just totally foreign to their ears.

And.

And when you realize that the pastor is going to have to give an account for your soul and he's doing this because

he Loves you.

Well, then the picture changes, you know.

You understand that discipline is a part of Christianity and God disciplines those he loves.

You should be monitoring us

whether you're in the faith, right?

Make your calling an election.

Sure.

We have to constantly be reassessing ourselves and making sure that we're acting in love.

And you know, apologize for have come

off abrasive to you loving Christians who would

embrace you and Seek to disciple you and open the scriptures to you and help you get to the point

where you need to be.

Obviously in love no one can get to God.

And this is eternal life that they may know you the one true

God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent Knowing

vital to your eternal life.

You cannot have one without the other.

So if you know of a Jesus Who doesn't finish the work on the cross

leave that?

You know that Jesus of Scripture is of vital importance.

You need to know that the Jesus who died on that cross work on the cross

the person and work of Jesus on the cross.

It's sufficient to save you if you place your faith and trust in him

fully.

Again, nothing to the cross.

Amen.

And guess what Joseph you since you're a first -time questioner.

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For that Bible we need to have your full mailing address, by the way, Joseph.

Not just a freighter or Africa or whatever it is.

And we'll get that out to you.

And.

And of course.

Not everybody who says they're a Christian is a Christian.

Wouldn't you agree Anthony.

Like for instance?

I do not believe that the folks from the God hates fags group are regenerate

people.

They bring a message of condemnation that has nothing to do with a call to repentance.

They they in fact, they don't even believe.

That.

Homosexuals can repent that they believe that they are

Irreversibly consigned to hell and they are very happy about that.

If you notice that Their hearts aren't broken Over unrepentant sinners, they seem

to be very delighted that homosexuals who don't repent are going to hell.

And of course as I just said, they don't believe a homosexual will ever repent.

So wouldn't you say that that's also an important factor that not everybody who's walking around with some kind of a

banner or Or who is in your face saying that you have a false religion and they are claiming to be

Christian Not all of them are Christians.

From there, um, you know scary if you're

gonna come to me on that day and say Lord Lord.

Didn't we prophesying in a test that demons perform miracles?

He says depart from me workers of iniquity.

I never knew you.

He didn't say I knew you at one point in time and then I forgot about.

He says I never knew You.

So if you if the motive of your heart if your heart is happy and rejoicing.

That someone is going to hell.

You do not have a converted heart.

Love rejoices in the truth.

It hates falsehood.

So your heart would break for somebody who's going to hell because you don't want that for him.

God saved you out of his mercy and grace.

Mm -hmm, and because of that you owe God your life.

He calls us to be Disciples salt and light to the people around us if we're not being salt and

light and we're pushing them into hell.

Gladly something's wrong.

We are not reflecting the love that right and and and.

I have that harsh criticism about The God hates fags group Westboro

Baptist Church.

I have that.

Harsh.

Opinion of them that I don't believe that they are regenerate Even though they are Calvinistic

Baptists on their website.

They even have the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith as their statement of faith which is something that I and

my congregation that I belong to adhere to and Yet we would recognize that

now obviously, I don't know the hearts of all of those people, but they are acting Unregenerate people and I have no

hope or confidence that they are saved.

We do have a listener in Ken Ross Scotland Murray.

Who says can we say of our Lord Jesus Christ that he is speaking the truth with love?

When he speaks of whitewashed sepulchres Hypocrites a brood of vipers you are of

your father the devil.

Are we justified in using our Lord in?

These examples as a role model when the situation demands as long as our heart is, right.

What is your opinion on that?

Oh.

If I think if you're speaking to

these were men who should have known better.

They would be tribes to the people.

In fact, he says, you know, you make one convert you make him twice as much a son of hell them than what he was

so what Jesus is pointing out is their hypocrisy in Teaching the traditions of

men for the commands of God.

The Pharisees turned this into a an ego and a pride thing.

They were making money on the people who who were coming to the temple for sacrifices, right?

That's when Jesus overturned the tables the money.

Mm -hmm.

So when when we have people who are in positions of authority Who are telling

the world what the God in accord with sound

doctrine?

We have we not only have call that

person out.

Mm -hmm, hold them to repentance if they're not in line with sound doctrine.

Amen.

I agree with you a hundred percent and.

It's a very interesting that in the scriptures.

You only have Jesus using that level of harshness towards religious leaders.

Right, and of course at one point he said to one of his own Apostles Peter get behind me Satan.

But you don't have Jesus Saying to the woman at the well get away from

me whore or you don't have him saying things like that, you know you

filthy whores and Homos and things like that.

You don't have him speaking that way to the lowly sinner.

Who you know is not in any kind of a position of religious leader leadership or

or respect.

He has just a totally opposite approach to those people.

That's it.

Isn't it true that that's really the only time he unleashes that kind of harshness like even with the the the

money changers in the temple.

It's mostly found in the Gospel of Matthew, which is written to the

Jew understanding of the scripture Jesus

as the Christ.

I mean he gave them every reason he told them basically, you know I am my father all one if you do not believe that I

am you will die in your sins.

What did the Jews do.

The Pharisee stone him because him a mere man claimed to be God.

So they would they were accusing him of blasphemy.

Meanwhile, he fulfilled all these prophecies again as a teacher of the scriptures.

They should have I they should have known they they should have easily identified Jesus as the Messiah, but they didn't.

So Jesus goes on.

You know you stranded in that you swallow a camel you your whitewashed sepulchres.

You're white on the outside rotten on the inside you you brood of vipers.

315, you know, there's there the seed of the serpent.

He's basically saying that's that's pretty harsh criticism but when you stand up and and scripture

bears witness to the fact that If you to seek to seek to be an elders a noble task,

but you're going to be given a stricter judgment for that Jesus was.

Demonstrating we're going to experience a stricter judgment because

just and teach them to others.

And I think we find that Deficient again in the American Church we have so many people who want to be

pastors who you who end up being pastors and deacons and elders and are not qualified to

do so and my heart goes out because.

They're they're they're misrepresenting the scriptures and teaching things that are not in accord with sound

doctrine far in America.

Theologically exegeting them properly.

If not, you see what's going on in this country.

We're going to reap the results of the church not doing what it's supposed to do in society.

Hmm.

We do have a question and this kind of made me chuckle because it's something that you and I were just talking about not long.

Ago.

I'm sorry.

No, I don't.

I don't mean on the show today, I mean maybe a week or so ago Tyler in

Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York says.

Do you think that presuppositional apologetics are More effective than evidential.

I don't know if you've reached a point of completely being settled on that issue yet because.

We both.

Admire heroes of the faith even of the present day that are on both sides of that like for instance R .C Sproul

is an evidentialist, but the late Greg Bonson who is considered a

modern -day King of apologetics.

He was a presuppositionalist and dr. James White is a presuppositionalist and so on and

I believe Frank Turek is an evidentialist.

And so you we do have people on both sides of these issues that we admire.

But what if you ever come to a settled opinion on that yet?

Oh, well, actually I'm reading a book by Scott Oliphant called covenantal apologetics.

Okay, explaining the presuppositional method and it is

phenomenal.

It's excellent.

I really love the way that unfolding it and explaining it to the reader.

It's it's it's accessible.

There's some deep things in there that you know.

Make you pause and start to think.

But I understand where he's coming from and and I see it as a scriptural position now.

The the confusion for me and I'm still learning about

evidence.

Yes.

As well as the evidentialist does now if an evidentialist is using evidence Thinking that

the evidence they think that that

evidence is going to change their heart.

Well, then I would disagree with the evidentialist.

Yes.

Because it's only the Holy

Spirit and

evidentialist argues from the evidence to God

be any God and that's what I think the presuppositionalist would Object to because

there is only one God the triune God of Scripture from him.

There is no other God and there's no way to know Anything but him.

Yes.

Romans 1.

Romans 1 is what I think a lot of presuppositionalism is based on.

Because sometimes when we get in discussions with Non -believers we let them

Take us away on rabbit trails far away from the gospel and we never return to the issue of the

gospel because they are saying Prove to me that the Bible is the Word of God and prove to me that God exists

and things like that.

Which we cannot physically prove either of those things.

Well, what we can do is disprove the lies about the Bible and about God.

Not all of us can.

I mean, we're not all.

Not all of us have the the knowledge of of textual manuscripts that

James White and others have but.

But we can't.

There are things that men Really do in their heart of hearts know are true and yet as Romans 1 says

that they suppress those things.

Absolutely, and one of the things that we've done at New York apologetics myself, we've come

up with something called the side -by -side tactic so anytime we're

Theism with an atheist what we do.

We we do something called the side -by -side tactic.

We take our worldview and we hold it up against there so

we can we can our standpoint or an evidentialist standpoint and let's say

we're using the Argument from around.

We the atheist understands and knows that morality exists.

He has he just has no way to justify Objective morality in his worldview

our worldview which posits God as the only objective source.

For morality and morality flows from God's nature without God you have no objective morality.

And then it becomes subjective.

You when you put them together side by side.

Chris.

You'd be surprised see the difference especially if you're you know.

If you have access to a blackboard like we do sometimes on the college campuses.

And we're talking to the the free thinkers of the skeptics group or the Christian.

You know we'll we'll draw something on on the board and we'll put a line between and say okay.

Who how can you have objective morality in an atheistic worldview?

What do you ground it in and that's usually an empty space?

Well as a theist what do we have.

We start with God in the beginning.

God?

That's where especially from a reform perspective everything begins and

ends with God from the existence of

God to the existence of morality.

And even from an evidentialist point of view.

We all know Epistologically that morality exists.

Can it be object and by the way?

Tyler I'm sure that.

My guest today Anthony will be willing to talk to you during breaks.

Tonight and tomorrow if you go to the conference that Anthony is attending tonight and tomorrow

That is being hosted by my second guest pastor Bruce Bennett.

Yeah, he is having a conference that is not far from you.

It's in Farmingville, Long Island, and that's not far from Mastic Beach and it's on God and government

a Christian response to politics.

And the website where you can get all of the information on how to get to word of

truth Church is WOTChurch .com

WOTChurch .com.

So Tyler, I hope you can make it to that conference tonight and say hello to Anthony and also pastor

Bruce who's my second guest and.

And perhaps you can have a much more thorough conversation about that.

Yeah, that'd be great.

And.

Well now we're in your your journey.

Did you and Nick?

How did you meet Nick and how did you come to the conclusion?

Hey, we got to start an apologetics organization called New York

Apologetics where we talk about Presuppositionalism and the super

lapsarianism and stuff like that.

You know again again in God's providence I was hosting a Bible study and one of the persons

was also attending a church that Nick is.

When she would you like to do a debate with an atheist,

you know, so me and my big mouth again.

Sure, I set it up.

No problem.

So a couple weeks later.

She's well, I got the date,

but.

About this and and help you along in it.

I said terrific.

So she she put me in contact with Nick and he came to the house and we started talking and we hit it off immediately.

He's just a great guy great personality and he was real instrumental in helping me

Structure my arguments for that particular debate and actually kept me from going down a road that I was.

You know, you watch the debate that the people if they want more of it.

You know open things and that's when Nick and I said, you know what?

We should do a website gather a website

called New York apologetics calm

magical things that give a reason for the hope

that you had for Apologetics

typically on Long Island you hear

about a mostly we said,

you know, we need to we need to

bring Apologetics to launch some people together.

We train some people up in a

good material and train them up and some of the arguments and then we decided to do that Debate at Stony Brook

University, you know, we dropped a bomb on Stony Brook University when dr

Turek came in there and debated Michael Sherman as you know, you were you were in the middle of it.

Yes, I was the moderator of that debate.

And it was just amazing how the atheist in that debate to just refuse to

abide by any rules and regulations.

But I guess that is very much logically consistent with being an atheist.

Yes, but.

In fact, I've even found myself disagreeing with both debaters at some points during the debate.

But I really enjoyed it and I still have people to this day who say hey.

Were you the guy that moderated that debate?

They will see.

Oh great.

Listen, I knew you were.

The debate the moderator for James White's debate again.

Like I said when I when I saw you back in in the Huntington townhouse in place of you with a guy.

Use and he agreed

afterwards that man and getting

trained up at the cross -examined Instructors Academy.

Because we got to meet a lot of apologists that you might have heard of

like that.

Really really putting

together curriculum.

A curriculum.

So that we can bring it to churches.

Train them up and then leave them with something that they can either play on the computer or a DVD

and teach there.

As you know, once kids leave high school and go into college.

They're going to get attacked.

And if they don't have for what they believe and why?

It's a good chance that they're gonna fall away.

So, you know, that's one of me to

stand on and listen.

Christianity is a picture of reality.

Christian worldview.

Mm -hmm.

Once you step outside of it.

That's when you have the problem is most people and

give them the gospel not just evidence.

And your website is New York.

Apologetics calm and New York is spelled out.

It's not the abbreviated version New York apologetics calm.

Anthony, you know, you have an open door here as long as we have a free studio that day with no

guests.

And we would love to have you back soon.

Keep me updated on all of the activities you're doing so I can promote them.

And I want to thank you again for the from the bottom of my heart for being not only a verbal

Encourager and a true Barnabas to me In word and in writing but also

in your benevolence and your charity and your grace toward me.

And it's been appreciated more than you can imagine.

Chris the pleasure is all mine.

Thank you so much for having on your show.

I really appreciate it.

It's my pleasure brother, and we look forward to having you back.

God bless you too.

And coming up in just a matter of minutes is Bruce Bennett who is the pastor of Word of Truth Church

in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and he is going to be discussing the

Conference that we've been talking about God and government.

So don't go away.

We're going to be right back after these messages with Pastor Bruce Bennett.

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For more details go to g3 conference .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Orns.

And if you just tune us in our second guest today is Bruce Bennett pastor of Word of Truth Church in

Farmingville Long Island, New York, and he is announcing the Word of Truth Church's seventh annual Bible

conference tonight Through Saturday and we're going to be talking about that more during our discussion

on Today's topic God and government a Christian response to politics and it's my honor and privilege.

To welcome you back to iron sharpens iron my dear friend pastor Bruce Bennett.

Hey, it's my pleasure Pastor Bruce and why don't you once again for those of our listeners who

have just discovered this program and perhaps never heard you before.

Let our listeners know about Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island.

Who are meet together to.

Great.

And tell us about your seventh annual Bible conference that starts tonight and goes through Saturday.

And so

tell us I

know

that David

Ennis is

one of the

speakers I've

had David on this

program even recently.

He's a professor at the King's College.

Of.

Politics.

And Who else is going to be speaking there?

And please give my greetings to all of those brothers because I know them all and have known them all for quite a number

of years and I've got to get my friend Dave Corson back on the show because it's been the

longest Period of time since I've interviewed Dave Corson.

He was Live in the studio on Long Island when I used to broadcast from WNYG

radio.

And I dearly miss that brother.

He's a wonderful brother in Christ.

And I don't know if you've ever seen Dave laugh.

But Dave has a laugh like I can't even describe it.

It's unhuman.

And I was at a Broadway play with him and his wife and my late wife and I

Were there and I was laughing more at Dave laughing than I was at the

play.

But what a wonderful brother all of those brothers and pastor Rich Jensen has been such

a monumental friend in my life and the darkest hours of

my life as you have and I just thank God for all of you.

And Are there any known differences right now between

any of the participants politically any differences that you are aware of.

And.

This issue of politics is something that I Don't know if you'll really

appreciate how much it divides Christians even Theologically like -minded

Christians and even Christians perhaps in the same pews at church.

It you'll never appreciate how much it divides them until you're on Facebook.

Because I have become utterly amazed at the viciousness that Brethren in

Christ have towards each other when it comes to political issues, and I also

find it ironic that some of the the staunchest Calvinists that

share our Our theological views of God's sovereignty over all things

act as if you don't have some kind of full -throated.

Zealous.

Enthusiastic support for Donald Trump.

You are going to be responsible.

For having Hillary Clinton elected and bringing the United States into the category of a third

world Country in the next 40 years, you know, I mean, it's just I don't understand.

I mean, I don't want Hillary Clinton to be the president of the United States by any stretch of the imagination either.

But I don't think it means that it requires of me to lie About what my opinions are of

Donald Trump either, but if you could comment on what I just said.

Statements like hey, don't forget to vote things like that.

But

have

to

start

with

that,

you

know

the

idea

of

just leave

many

of the

early

paths a

problem.

The church

is

disengaged,

but he

would

fit

so

you

you

would

not

believe

that.

A Christian who refrains from voting just because they don't according to their conscience

want to be a participant in an earthly sense in.

The.

Raising up of a leader that they believe to be Dangerous evil fraudulent, whatever the case

may be just because they're the lesser of two evils.

You don't think that that is at all an appropriate Action or even a

better term to refrain from action from a Christian to Say look, I'm just I'm

sorry, but I just cannot in good conscience pull the lever for Donald Trump during this election.

Tenable.

I think that.

Well, there

are those.

I've even

interviewed

two

candidates

for

president

of

the United

States

with

independent

parties

people

that.

Probably the majority of my audience has never heard of before and then of course the

majority of the country.

But.

Darrell Castle with the Constitution Party and Tom Holfling with America's Party and

both of them Seem to Put forth the case and others that support

them.

Is that the only way that we are ever going to bring about?

Transformation and even our political system in America with the the constant two

-party Choices that we are offered is

to get conservatives to realize if you don't start setting forth.

Republicans.

Who are not?

Compromising some of the core ideals of not only the Constitution, but many of the

biblical moral principles that we stand for.

If you if you continue to produce these less adequate or

inadequate Candidates we're not going to vote for you until something changes.

So therefore they would even view Perhaps the election of somebody like Hillary Clinton as

Being the kind of chastisement this nation needs to snap professing

conservatives out of their slumber if you follow what I'm saying and You know So that will

they will vote for somebody that their conscience agrees with even though they know the person's going to going to probably or

certainly lose.

Well, how do you respond to that kind of? thought process there.

Federal

debt.

Really when did that happen?

Yeah, because of immigration patterns, oh I see what you're saying.

How do you respond to those that have a more libertarian leading who are

Christians who are theologically reformed.

They abhor abortion and all these other things that.

The conservative Republican would abhor and they stand Arm and arm with

them, but they see this dangerous Growing

power in the federal government.

That.

They are really frightened by or concerned over

With both parties they they see a very little difference into the size of government That

both candidates would be promoting and they see also that

The independent libertarians are Seemingly growing into in

some degree in popularity in the nation.

And therefore if If they see that they're losing the Republicans are losing votes

to libertarians perhaps the the The Republican candidates that they're

pushing forward Will take more seriously the concept of very limited government.

You know that they will want to appeal in a more genuine way to those who do

not want a Totalitarian Government over us

because of the fact that obviously the the founding of this nation was diametrically opposed to that.

How do you respond to that group of Christian brothers and sisters in Christ.

You have that view.

But of course he.

There are many reasons why libertarians would say that he's not even truly that that they are.

You know, they're in favor of all kinds of gun control laws and they're really very inconsistent and

Of course, they don't believe in the liberty of life for the unborn either and so that they are

In a different category, but unfortunately the most popular one in that group in the nation that is

Right, well like I'm saying I'm not even talking about Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party because

I am disgusted by Gary Johnson's giddy support of Same -sex

marriage and abortion.

I mean he would like to throw a parade in favor of those things.

I'm sure I'm not even talking about that.

I'm talking about more of the people that are in the area of the Constitution Party and other

parties that are God -fearing Christians who abhor abortion and

Seek to defend the biblical understanding of marriage and that kind of thing.

That's what that's where I'm coming from.

I'm not talking about the Libertarian Party as it were.

Worth

them

party

from

that

position.

I'm

trying to say

you're

simply not

and

sorry

pal.

Meet

you in

heaven.

The last 20 30 years of the habit this major Earthquake or major national catastrophe a

terrorist event or other with all

basically finished.

We will be an unrecoverable state we'll be looking for handouts from other than we can't put

more debt out there.

All right, we're

gonna be going to a break right now.

It's our final break of the show.

Actually, if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for pastor Bruce Bennett, our email address is Chris Arnzen at

gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Where am I trying to please man.

If I were still trying to please man? I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

Than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity.

But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate Love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

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Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference.

He and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and

occasional guest on Chris's show.

Think I think that's what it's called.

Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new

hometown.

It is going to be a bang -up conference called the g3 Conference

celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer

Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Baucom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there.

Learn more at g3 conference .com g3 conference.

Thanks Todd, I think see you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen and I really do thank Todd Friel for creating that ad with me and

I urge you if you go to the g3 conference if you register, please mention iron sharpens iron radio

as The place where you discovered it and also meet me at the

iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

So I'm hoping that many of you can attend and that's g3 conference .com.

G3 conference .com.

January 19th through the 21st 2017 are the dates of the conference

and of course, we're talking about another conference that's starting tonight Through Saturday at the Word of Truth

Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, and that website is Wot church

.com.

Wot for word of truth church .com.

Wot church .com.

If you have any questions our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

We do have a couple of listeners that I'll get to in a second Bruce, but just out of curiosity How would you

respond to my concern?

There is a very well -known pastor in Texas amongst other people

who passionately and vociferously in the media

Support Donald Trump not so much because of the

Things that we should fear about Hillary Clinton, although that's involved in some of the

Speeches and so on that are given it's because they think that Donald Trump is just a wonderful Guy the

perfect man for the job our man During this hour.

We've got to get this Superb candidate in the office and

When somebody that enthusiastically in public is Endorsing

a man like Donald Trump with the same enthusiasm that they spread the gospel and even with the same

urgency.

Who knows what this person that most Christians would agree is not a believer?

Who knows what he will do in that office that may bring an?

Enormous Dark spot on our nation's history and may embarrass

Christians Nationwide for being so public in their vault vocal

Full -throated support of him and people will begin to look at us like we don't have any discernment

That we helped bring upon this country Whatever kind of negative things may happen as a

result of his election and to me it does disturb me when I see People who

are taking that type of a tactic not what you're even saying now.

Because I even remember the last time I had you on the program.

You were very concerned about Donald Trump's behavior during the primaries, but.

The.

It just seems to me inappropriate, especially for Christian leaders to be that publicly excited

about Donald Trump.

That's where I'm coming from.

We do have an anonymous listener in New York who asks

my pastor is endorsing Donald Trump from the pulpit.

Do you think that that's a ever an appropriate thing for a pastor to do during a worship service?

And I assume he means any candidate and I'm assuming he's not just speaking about Donald Trump.

But is that an appropriate thing for a pastor to specifically endorse a candidate from a pulpit.

So that that there may be churches like the as we both know African -american churches do it all the

time with impunity.

So.

So it's a violation of New York State law here in this state.

You could you lose your religious incorporation.

Nonprofit.

You do not have to go.

501c3 in New York.

Is that you cannot use?

Your ministry as long as

you invited to

speak on the issues are dealing with

so is do

you?

Is that your understanding that these primarily African American churches who have?

Every election cycle have liberal candidates in their pulpits number, of course I'm not talking about every black

church or even in every major black church Donald Trump even spoke at one recently

but I'm saying that it's a very it has been for decades a very

commonplace thing for a liberal candidate to be speaking from the pulpit of a an

African -american church and it seems like you just don't see that very often in a white a

Predominantly white church.

Is that what they're doing?

Is they do it going by the book in most cases that you're aware of?

Long as you there's

no problem with that as

long as likewise

invitation.

And how about the.

The pastors that are on Fox News supporting Trump.

Are they in any violation of of any laws in that regard?

Well, even they're identified as the pastor of so -and -so church every time so.

The fine line there which I couldn't speak authoritatively on.

You

have

Harrison

in

Mechanicsburg,

Pennsylvania.

Who says.

How do you respond to those?

Frustrated Christian Republicans like I am who are so disgusted with the

Republican Party because whenever they seem to rise up in power in in

places of authority Little to nothing is ever done in regard to their

promises regarding the abolishing of Abortion and other things

no matter what Supreme Court justices are appointed no matter what Republican

Politicians win elections.

We just see millions of babies being murdered.

Just as if there were Democrats leading the show.

What is your response to us who are just totally frustrated and disgusted over this I.

Would say quite simply don't give up if you look at recent history.

We'll take on Reagan as an example.

He was consistent in his pro -life policies.

He did appoint solid justices about to be a huge disappointment, but

Anthony Kennedy was a point.

Okay,

so

you

had a Democrat

and

get

what

he

wants.

Okay, we have.

Christopher and Suffolk County Long Island who says How are you so sure that

Donald Trump is going to be really faithful to his opposition to abortion when many of

those Republicans who are most vocal in the media day after day after day

Beating the drum for his election were pro abortionists like Rudy Giuliani

and others.

That were not ever really truly conservative or pro -life individuals.

You're not gonna be progress

word and here he gave us

to the point

and everyone

give me

a lot to the

ambulance comes.

That's why I want Chris to be the guy I'm the only person that I can

see out there in the political landscape.

There's any chance of getting this country going in the right direction.

Hey, brother.

I'm getting a little uncomfortable with these analogies.

You keep.

By the way Christopher if you want to pick Pastor Bruce's brain more and all the

speakers at his conference since you're in Suffolk County Why don't you head down to

Farmingville?

And go to the conference and during the breaks speak to these people and also hear what they have to say

during the sessions.

And the website is wot church .com wot church

.com and.

And.

Invite some folks from your own congregation with you wherever that may be.

I want you to have at least four minutes to Really unburden your heart to leave

our listeners with what you most want etched in their hearts and minds before they leave the program today.

Scripture talks about We've been given the words Ben

Franklin Told a woman who asked him kind of government

was created here in the United States

Government

Legislators as to

the

issues

and by

now

that needle

be

put

into

the

political

atmosphere.

This is closer to the standard.

So I pray that we Arrive at that conclusion because if we don't turn around things

quickly, we don't much of a future.

Now, how do you respond to those who are concerned again about?

The.

Level of authority in government that they think Donald Trump may bring about.

Even in his own statements about generals listening to anything that he commands them to do and so on.

Almost in some of his discussions you get the imagery of a police state.

That those things are often Very appealing to us when somebody that we like or have a lot of

affinity with is in charge.

But we forget that the next four to eight years when somebody

else Is elected that may be in direct 180 degree opposition to

all that we hold dear that person and that government will have the same authority

over her lives and Sometimes Republicans naively pave the way for those things like for instance

even some of the things involved with Homeland Security and so on.

How do you respond to that.

And last but not least I'm assuming that being a post -millennialist you think first and foremost

the transformation can only come through this nation by the spread of the gospel and by

by wicked sinners repenting and turning to Christ.

Well, I want to remind you all that the the conference is tonight through tomorrow and for more detail

go to WOT church .com.

WOT stands for word of truth church .com.

WOT church .com.

Thank you so much.

My friend and brother look forward to having you back again in the future.

I want to thank Anthony Eugenio from New York apologetics for being on as well during the first hour.

His website is New York Apologetics .com and New York is spelled out N -e -w -y -o

-r -k Apologetics .com.

I hope you all have a safe blessed joyful and God honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

Than you are a sinner.