February 17, 2023 Show with Austin Huggins & Dr. Edward Dalcour on “Examining the New Birth” (Part 2)

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the

listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living

on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this

17th day of February, 2023.

This is part two of a discussion that we began yesterday with

my guests, Austin Huggins, preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries, and

one of the pastors of First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida, and

Edward Delcor, a preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries as well, and the president and

director of Department of Christian Defense.

Today, we are continuing the discussion we began yesterday on the theme, Examining the New Birth,

which is also the theme of an upcoming conference, the first annual First

Love Ministries conference to be held at the First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Austin Huggins and

Edward Delcor.

Thank you, Brother Chris.

It's good to be back on the line with you.

Thank you.

Delighted to be here again with you, Chris.

And for the sake of our listeners who missed yesterday's show, Austin, please tell us about the First

Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida.

Yes, the First Baptist Church of Baghdad is located in Florida.

We're in Santa Rosa County, just one town over from Pensacola.

We are just a Baptist church here in the area that is going through a reformation.

We are just completing, going through the 1689 on Wednesday nights.

We're adopting that confession of faith.

And we are looking forward to being able to put on a conference addressing, examining the new birth, and really

praying that, if the Lord wills, we would be able to be a light not only to the saints here in Baghdad and in

Milton, but to the whole of Santa Rosa County, bringing sound doctrine and the biblical gospel.

Why don't you share the website of that fine church with our listeners?

Our church website is fbcbaghdad .org.

Baghdad is spelled without the H, B -A -G -D -A -D, fbcbaghdad .org.

And, Eddie Delcor, please let our listeners know about the Department of Christian Defense.

The Department of Christian Defense is a apologetic educational, Christian educational

ministry.

The website is christiandefense .org, christiandefense .org.

It's a hub for all kinds of information on different non -Christian religions and

groups, atheistic groups, particularly oneness theology, Mormonism, Jehovah's

Witnesses.

And also, it provides information on general theological issues.

And we have literature that we offer.

We offer some books on the Trinity and oneness Pentecostalism and other things and some other sources and references.

And that website I happen to have right in front of me, christiandefense .org, christiandefense

.org.

Now, Austin, if you could pick up the ball here and tell our listeners about the

First Love Ministries' first annual conference to be held at the church where you serve

as one of the pastors in Milton, Florida.

Yeah, thanks, Chris.

This really is an exciting time for anyone who is familiar with First Love Ministries, either through

the books and the publications that they receive from our ministry regularly or through the missionary activity

that we do overseas.

Our drive really is to bring people to the knowledge of Christ,

to provoke the church to return to her first love, from which we get the

name of the ministry out of Revelation 2, Christ's exhortation to the church at Ephesus.

But this conference here, being the first annual in this region, is going to be addressing examining

the new birth.

We're going to talk about why regeneration matters.

We'll look at the actual doctrine of the new birth.

Dr. Dalkor will be addressing what is not the new birth, for example, baptismal,

decisional regeneration.

We'll be looking at the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, sermons on revival and awakening, biblical revival

and biblical awakening.

We'll also be looking at regeneration in church history, pastoral ministries, evangelism methodology.

Everything that getting this right or wrong touches.

The conference will be March 3rd through 5th.

We'll have various pastors and speakers and teachers here at First Love coming and pressing into the mystery of

the new birth with Fresh Seal, desiring that the churches may be strengthened in this foundational teaching of Christianity.

It is free.

The conference registration is free.

We will be distributing books and literature that will be free.

Saturday's lunch will also be free.

So please go ahead and visit us at firstloveministries .org and sign up

for that.

Dr. Dalkor is going to be there as well.

I know he's really excited to be coming in all the way from California.

We're looking forward to the fellowship, right brother?

Yes, we are looking forward to the fellowship and all the people coming to hear this very

vital to the Christian life and very important subject matter that we'll be providing.

Awesome.

What topic are you hitting specifically?

I know we have several different speakers.

Well, interestingly, I planned on doing regeneration, revival, and awakening.

I know there's a lot of attention to that right now.

But the goal really is to set forth a hope for the church that's based

not in the pragmatism or the methodology of the age, but in the biblical and

historical reality that God alone brings life.

And what does it look like when a people humble themselves before the God of the Bible and look to this great wonder -working

miracle of new life?

And you can go to firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org to get

all the details that you need about this conference.

And by the way, I want to let our listeners know that if you go to my Facebook page,

type in the search engine of Facebook, Chris Arnzen, A -R -N -Z -E -N,

you're going to see where I have an announcement for yesterday and today's interview

with my guests.

You're going to see a very rare photograph.

It may be just as rare as a Bigfoot sighting, a Loch Ness monster sighting,

or a UFO sighting.

It's a photograph that has Eddie Delcor smiling in it.

So you might be fascinated by that.

That's hard to find.

Every time I've had a photo taken with Eddie Delcor, he looks like he is trying to psych out an

arm -wrestling opponent.

He's got a look of rage on his face.

Or maybe he's just disgusted and embarrassed because he's standing next to me and getting his photo taken with me.

I'm not sure.

But I'm going to give our listeners our email address if you have any questions about this very

important topic, examining the new birth.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are in a church and you disagree with the church's position

on regeneration, and obviously you don't want to identify yourself, call attention to your identity if

you're disagreeing with your own church.

You might even be a pastor who has, through your own biblical study,

you may have come to a different position than you originally had.

A position that may be in disagreement with your other elders, with your denomination.

And I understand that you would want to remain anonymous if that is the case as well.

Things like that, you may remain anonymous.

But please, if it's just a general question about the theology

behind the discussion, the scriptural evidence behind what we are saying,

or historical accounts of beliefs on this issue, what have you.

If it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Perhaps I'll start with Eddie this time.

What do you believe from your own experience as an apologist and what you've witnessed

in the church at large?

What do you think are some of the most serious misconceptions

and errors when it comes to an understanding of regeneration and the new birth?

And I'm even talking about not necessarily cults and the Church of

Rome and false world religions.

I'm talking about your average evangelical church.

And it seems that something that you already mentioned and something that we were talking about

yesterday, decisional regeneration, I think that that may be the prominent

and dominant view amongst modern evangelicals is decisional regeneration.

But anyway, pick up.

Yeah, because psychologically it just kind of makes sense.

You do your part, God does his part.

I was in a Bible study.

I teach this new Bible study actually in Farmer's Market in Los Angeles.

And most of the guys are from Calvary Chapel.

I was invited and they asked me to speak a few times and they want me to speak a lot.

But the fact of the matter is the misconceptions that most, again, as mentioned, I don't

like to use the word most, but too many Christians have such misconceptions as to

salvation.

And normally, unfortunately, they define it in Roman Catholic terms, unknowingly, just as they

define the Trinity in oneness terms, unknowingly, justification in Roman Catholic

terms.

And then when you say, well, biblically speaking, we do see a process.

There is an order of salvation.

Then they accuse you of, you know, what do you mean a process?

We don't believe we're saved by works and all these things.

So there's an enormous misconception on that issue.

One of the guys at this Bible study said he got really mad at John MacArthur.

He said, I just don't understand.

And all these guys are Calvary Chapel people.

He got very upset and he was conveying his anger.

He said, John MacArthur said, the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is

simply this.

Calvinism teaches the sovereignty of God.

Arminian teaches the sovereignty of man.

No, that's not true.

We believe that God is sovereign, but we do have to do our part.

You know, but that's what you find, this kind of misconception.

And when you're dealing with regeneration, what you find is not only is regeneration the

normal, it seems the average Christian thinks not only is regeneration a

result of your faith.

You believe, you make a decision, and then God rewards you or God, you

know, makes you born again because you made that choice.

You made that choice on the basis of what you did.

But there's also an enormous misconception on the aspects of salvation.

For instance, many would see justification as the same thing as regeneration or election the same

thing as justification.

Sanification may be the same thing as the election.

So even the points of salvation, there's so many misconceptions.

And a lot of these folks, and I just want to advise a lot of folks that want to try to help

people, take baby steps because you can't just unload all this doctrine they've never been exposed

to and expect them just to get it in five microseconds.

You've got to take baby steps on these kind of issues and use Scripture, don't use philosophy, because the Scriptures are very clear.

All these things are delineated in such a clear and cogent way that any literate person can understand these

basic truths of what regeneration is, what justification is, election,

sanctification, and the other doctrines of salvation.

And if you could, Austin, pick up with your own comments on this.

Yeah, I think we have hit our target if we accomplish just

a couple things here in light of the misconceptions that are myriad and that are rampant in all

different directions, both to restore the doctrinal integrity of what the new birth is,

to distinguish it from what it's not, whether that is conflating justification with

regeneration, or having a completely wrong sense of what brings about regeneration,

like decisionalism or baptismal regeneration, or some human work that makes this go,

to restore the Christ -centric, the grace -centric, the God -centric

sovereignty aspect, that He makes us willing in the day of His power, that the heart of the kings

is in the hand of the Lord, and like the rivers, He turns them whichever way He will, that we're born again not of

the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, nor of blood, but of God.

And then, on the other side, to really restore the majesty of the wonder.

I mean, when we talk about the new birth, we are literally talking about

a foul creature, dead in its trespasses and sins, in rebellion against the God who

made him, being clothed in the righteousness of very God Himself,

made a new creature, the blind seeing, the dead raised to life with new hunger, new

desires, with a desire to know Christ and to walk and be called a saint,

literally a holy one.

This is such a remarkable demonstration of God's creating and really recreating power,

who calls forth light out of darkness, that if the people come away from this conference having both been taught

and then granted a view of this miracle that would lend itself to a heart of worship, I

think we've really accomplished what we desire to do in pushing back against the misconceptions.

And, Eddie, why is this conversation so important?

Why is a correct understanding of the new birth,

understanding it rightly, why is it so important when all of us, all three of us

know, that in spite of sloppy theology, bad theology,

those that come to Christ in all truth and

reality, and an authentic conversion takes place, they're going

to be born again, they're going to heaven, whether or not they understand these things

correctly.

There are people that have accused me of being a

nitpicker when I have these discussions on the show.

They think that what I do can be compared to

counting the number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin.

When there's a whole world going to hell who don't know Christ, I'm wasting

time.

Picking on other Christians.

You know, we could go on and on and on with these kinds of attacks and

insults by those who think that what we are discussing is trivial.

But why is this important?

Are you there, Eddie?

He muted himself.

Sorry, I was eating cookies.

It's very important because the Holy Spirit decided to devote a lot of space to this particular doctrine.

This doctrine that God does.

Jesus thought it was very important because that was basically the first words he told Nicodemus.

You must be, if I can use a synonymous term, you must be regenerated.

So it's something that was important to Jesus.

It was something that was important to Paul because he writes about it.

It was important to the Apostle Peter because he writes about it.

And it lets us know the riches of his glory in the grace that he gave to us in

making us alive.

And here it is when he didn't have to.

He's not obligated to make anybody alive.

But because of his grace, as we read in Ephesians chapter 1, this was according to the

kindness of his will, according to his sovereign choice.

Because all of us were born, all of us in our mother's womb in the zygote stage

had a total inability guilty with sin.

He didn't have to save anyone and we would go to hell rightfully and justly.

But out of his grace and mercy, he made us alive.

So I think it's very important because this is an activity of God that he wants us to know because he writes about it over

and over and over.

And it's a center point in our evangelism when we're preaching, proclaiming the gospel.

As Jesus proclaimed the gospel to Nicodemus, you must be born again.

And then he defines the agent of regeneration, the person of the Holy Spirit.

So it's a foremost doctrine.

Now, you're right, Chris.

We don't hold to doctrinal perfectionism.

I don't.

I don't hold to – well, you do have to know how many angels can dance in a pyramid.

We don't hold to doctrinal perfectionism.

However, if you want to grow, as the Bible says, to grow in the grace and knowledge

of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, growing in knowledge is something that we do in our

sanctification.

These are the doctrines that we should know because, Chris, not only will it help us in evangelism, understanding

that salvation is at the prerogative of God, understanding that people are unregenerate and

understanding what that means, we become more effectual in our evangelism.

We become more productive, and we don't just sit there and give some kind of blood moon prophecy

or something.

I mean, we're preaching the cross work because we know that men are dead, and we know that only God can make them

alive.

So that's why I think it's very, very important.

It's a doctrine of God that he wants us to know about.

That's why he writes so much in it, about it.

And, Austin, don't you think that this also goes hand in hand with the very

important matter of who we, in our day -to -day lives,

identify as a brother or sister in Christ, not only in

casual conversations and when we are having

opportunities to share time and meals with people, but

also the more important matter of who our leaders in our own congregations are to welcome

into membership.

These are very important issues, aren't they?

Absolutely.

And Dr. Stan Morell will even be talking with pastors during one of our breakout sessions

to address the importance of regeneration in the pastoral ministry, a regenerate church membership

in particular as well.

I mean, but Jude speaks to this.

He talks about there are certain men who have crept in unaware, before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men.

There is an earnest contending for the faith in these things.

The importance of just how paramount this really is.

I think our dear brother, Pastor Osinachi, he's an avid listener of this

program in Nigeria.

He may be listening right now.

But Pastor Osinachi recently at a conference in Nigeria said, the doctrine of

regeneration is a matter of first importance.

And I agree with him wholeheartedly.

Especially in a nation like Nigeria, I think this is exemplified.

I think we have a type here to really look at.

If you go to, let's say, the Joshua Project, and you look at the statistics for the nation of

Nigeria, it says 51 of the nation is Christian, a

slight majority.

51 % with the remaining 49 % largely a militant Islam.

But if you get there on the ground, and you interface with what is called Christianity in the

land of Nigeria, the dominant form of Christianity there is

NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, health, wealth, prosperity, gospel, name it and claim it,

signs and wonders, with apostles and prophets so and so, raining blessings or cursings

down on your head.

And when it comes to the cross of Jesus Christ and the gospel, they are

largely, largely uninformed and even ignorant.

For instance, the blood of Jesus, they will write those words on their cars

so that they don't get into car wrecks.

They see it as the talisman of protection.

Much the same way as when you go to a witch doctor, he'll slaughter a chicken, spray its blood on you as a

talisman of protection.

Well, in their mind, what's more powerful than the blood of a chicken?

Ah, the blood of Christ.

They don't know the blood is for atonement.

They don't know and understand the cross work is for the redemption of sinners from the

penalty and power and presence of sin.

And so there are false brethren everywhere.

Even the brethren there at Sovereign Grace Bible Church in Lagos are constantly having to preach the

doctrine of the new birth, having to preach the gospel, having to say, you must be born again or you will not enter the

kingdom because so many people think because they went to a healing crusade that they're entering the kingdom.

And that is one, I don't know if I want to call it a microcosm, but it is at least an example

of what we have of variation here.

There's religion everywhere in the southeastern United States.

There are churches here every 200 feet.

There are so many ideas about what is the gospel.

And if you ask them, you'll get 20 different answers.

And the reality is there are people who've been in churches for 10, 20, 30, 50 years who are

not born again, who are carrying on in grandfather's religion, and we need a wake -up call.

This is a matter of first importance.

Amen, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe Osinachi told me years ago when he first

became a listener to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio that the congregation

where he serves is the only Reformed Baptist church in Nigeria.

I could be wrong, but I believe I'm remembering it correctly, at least back then when he first began.

Well, brother, I have some good news.

At the time of him saying that, he would have been largely correct.

Right now there are a number of church plants, so that number may be up to about

four or five now.

But Pastor Osi's church, along with Pastor Osagie and their elder statesman,

Pastor Tony Okora, the founding pastor, they are the oldest,

most mature of them all.

And so the other churches look to them for encouragement and support.

They have a lot on their shoulders in terms of the work there.

Amen.

Well, if you're listening, Osinachi, it's been a long time since you've submitted a question to

guests on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

I'd love to hear from you, if not today, very soon.

We have to go to our first break right now.

If you have a question for Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour on the new birth,

our email address is chrisorenson at gmail .com, chrisorenson at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your

country of residence if you live outside of the good old USA, and

only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We're going to be right back.

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if you are having a custom -designed piece of jewelry created,

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We have no idea how long they're going to be extending this amazing offer to us

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So please go to royaldiadem .com and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Trump Design Radio.

We are now back with our guests today, Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour, who are both

speakers, among others, at the First Love Ministries' first annual Bible conference

on the theme examining the new birth, March 3rd through the 5th at the First Baptist Church of Baghdad in

Milton, Florida, where one of my guests, Austin Huggins, is on the pastoral team there.

If you have questions, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at

gmail .com.

We do have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who has a question.

Maybe I'll have Eddie start, because it is on one of the themes

that Eddie is speaking on at the conference.

Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania said, I have heard differing opinions from

Reformed brethren on this question.

Are those that believe in baptismal regeneration necessarily

lost and have a false gospel?

I am always puzzled when I hear Reformed people say that, not that that is a majority of Reformed

people, but I have encountered Reformed people that make that claim that to believe in

baptismal regeneration negates the possibility you are saved while believing that.

At the same time, I don't know of any Calvinist who denies the salvation of

Martin Luther, who also believed in that, or, even going back further in history, Augustine, who

also believed in that.

So, I was wondering where you stand on this issue.

So, Eddie, we'll start with you.

Still eating cookies, Eddie?

Hello?

Hello, Eddie?

Still muted, brother. Sorry.

No, this time it was Turkish coffee.

The answer, yeah, if you look through patristic history, especially early ones, you'll see the word

regeneration, you'll see these kind of words.

A couple of things we have to understand.

Number one, they do not write in English, so some of the concepts do not comport exactly

to what we mean by regeneration.

But in terms of Luther, and I'm not a Lutheran scholar, but in terms of Luther, he

was an incredibly complex man in terms of his...

His writing was incredibly complex.

He was capricious, he said things, then he said opposite things later.

So, it's almost impossible to get a clear -cut view on Luther's doctrine of

baptism as it relates to regeneration.

Of course, the concept of sola fide would contradict any kind of baptismal regeneration.

Did Luther believe, in his mind, that works was a means of salvation?

I would say no, but some of the statements he made could be inferred, inferentially at least,

as a baptismal kind of regeneration view.

Again, Luther's writings were complex, so it's hard to get a clear -cut view on Luther.

But, take it before Luther, there were many who imply a baptismal regeneration view.

Just like today, though, and sometimes I equate it like this.

First, many of those passages in patristic literature do not teach what baptismal

regenerationists and Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say they teach.

Because, again, they're dealing with English language when they read these things, and then they deal with

snapshot passages.

So, a lot of folks that would have the view that Athanasius and others believed in baptismal

regeneration will snapshot a verse or a statement that they said, and then

they would not consider the totality of the entire document, in which

many times the sense of what he meant is either interpreted or

revealed.

But dealing with baptismal regeneration, look, if I asked an Arminian, and I'm

not one of those who broad -brush every single Arminian and say they're just not saved, you would have to, of course, interview.

I think it's a reckless thing to say.

It's alarming, their doctrine, to be sure.

It's very alarming.

But do they actually understand what they're saying?

When they say, I'm saved through faith alone, but then when you

press, you find out that they had to do something.

They had to initiate the faith act, which is a verb.

When you believe, it's not a noun.

It's not something you have.

You actively believe.

God doesn't believe in your behalf.

So, if you say you're saved by faith alone, many would

point out that faith is the cause of regeneration.

And I would say, no, it's not the cause.

It's instrumental.

We know this in Romans 5 .1 and other places.

In fact, there's nowhere grammatically where the prepositions denote on the phrases, say,

justified by faith, justified through faith, upon faith, all these phrases that the apostle uses, not

one of them grammatically show that faith was the actual cause.

I think it would be a diah, an accusative.

Not anywhere is that shown, but it's all instrumental.

Faith is the instrument.

However, and here's the point, you could be confused, the same kind of confusion

I hear from Christians who really give a mushy, horrible definition of the Trinity.

I'm not going to say they're unsaved, because they're, and here's the point, there is a difference, as I see,

from, say, an Arminian who believes, we're saved by faith, but yet I had to do something

in order for God to make me alive, in order for God to regenerate me.

Of course, if you press that, that's not really alone.

God's saving you alone because he had to do something, the faith act.

But there is a difference between that and a Roman Catholic saying, we are not saved by faith alone.

You must do works such as baptism and other meritorious works in order to be saved.

So there is a difference from someone being confused on justification, regeneration, the order,

what reprobation is, and so on and so forth, or on the Trinity, have a horrible definition.

Difference between that and that person, because he has not been adequately taught, and the person,

like a Roman Catholic or a Oneness Pentecostal saying, we are not saved by faith, or there is no

Trinity and I reject it.

See, there is a difference.

That's how I see it.

Yes, and of course, when you're talking about Rome and you're talking about the cults, it's

not just one thing that is added to faith,

it's a perpetual treadmill of obedience that

maintains your salvation in their mind.

Whereas Lutherans seem to be, and I know it's oxymoronic, they seem to be right on the

money with justification by faith alone, and yet at the same time, believe in baptismal

regeneration.

It's a mystery, I can't understand it.

I know it's often explained by Lutherans with whom I've had conversations

that we are just supposed to teach whatever the Bible

claims or declares, and we're not to be

overwhelmed by trying to understand these things that appear to be in conflict.

That's basically what I've heard in my own words of explaining

how they react to these issues that seem to be

a baffling issue, because it does seem to contradict all of the

solas, especially sola fide.

But any other, go ahead.

And as we talked about, I believe it was in the Missouri articles, it talks about, I'm

not quoting verbatim, if you haven't been baptized and that's your intention,

or you die early, you're still saved if you put your faith in Christ.

But it's important to be baptized.

You're talking about the Missouri somehow.

Missouri, yeah.

And so you have statements like that, and a lot of times, I don't have to be complex

when I read Scripture.

I don't have to look for a way out of faith alone.

I don't have to look, look, you brought up, Chris, you brought up a Church of Christ person.

I had a debate with a Church of Christ theolog slash pastor, whatever he was.

It was a written debate.

And he actually said that baptism was not a work.

And he pointed to John 6, what are the works of God and all these things.

But he actually thought in his mind that

baptism was not a work, it was an act of faith.

But of course, hey, I was baptized.

I remember standing up and holding my nose and walking up to the tank and

putting my hair in back of me and saying a string of words.

You started holding your nose before you even walked up to the tank?

Yeah.

It was the receipt of First Baptist Church.

But I remember, of course it's a work.

I had to walk up those stairs.

I had to hold my breath.

I had to shake the water out of my head, hair and head.

Yeah, that's a work.

Anything that requires energy, grammatically speaking, even in our language, anything that requires ergon

or energy, you could be sleeping and you're still doing something that requires

energy.

You're breathing.

And Paul says, literally, we are not saved by righteous energies that we

do.

We're not saved by energy.

We're saved by faith alone.

The instrument, faith alone.

And I'll have Austin pick up when we return from our midway break.

We have to go to our midway break right now.

Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90

.1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC

requires of them to localize geographically all of their programming, including Iron

Trip and Zion, to Lake City, Florida.

They do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things in the middle of

our show, while we simultaneously, on the other hand, air our globally heard

commercials.

So please use this time wisely.

Try to respond to as many of our advertisers as you can using the contact information in their commercials.

And we hope that that often means you will purchase their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations,

and visit their churches.

But when you can't do any of those things, please at least do something every one of you can do.

If you love this show and you're grateful that there are those out there who share their wealth

with us so that we can remain on the air, if you're really thankful for that, then thank our advertisers for

sponsoring the show.

That's a very simple thing that anybody listening can do.

And that should go a long way in keeping our advertisers happy and wanting to renew their contracts.

So thank our advertisers if you are indeed thankful and grateful that they keep the show on the

air.

And also send in your questions to Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour, to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at

gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching,

teaching, writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

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Go to g3nin .org that's g3nin .org and enter promo code

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Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor Booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while

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Go to g3nin .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for

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Today.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners.

From all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed.

Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Italy in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards.

And Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger Catechism.

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Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland send you.

Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

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Before I return to my guests, Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour on our

discussion on examining the new birth and our promotion of the

upcoming First Love Ministries first annual conference on the same theme in Milton, Florida, I

have some very pressing issues to share with you.

First of all, if you love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you please

to go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer snail mail, the old -fashioned way of sending a physical check to a physical address, there will also

be a physical address that appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your business, your private practice like a

law firm, like a medical practice, or it's just a special event that

you want to promote, well, please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in

the subject line.

We are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in need of your

donations and the donations have plummeted

ever since COVID and the hysteria that followed it and the mandates that

shut down and even ruined and closed permanently some businesses which has reflected in our

audience giving far less than we used to receive from our listeners.

We've never bounced back from that, so please help us.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

And remember folks, never give your own church where you are a member less money than you are accustomed to giving them every Lord's Day

in order to give us a financial gift.

Never cut into those finances that you have set aside to give to your local church.

Please never do that.

And also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you are back on your feet

and more stable financially before you send us a financial gift.

Those two things are commands of scripture to provide for your church and provide for your family and

providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you love the show, you have extra

money in the bank collecting interest, you have extra money in the bank for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes,

you love the show and you don't want it to go away, share some of that money with us so that we can remain on.

The air.

Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

Also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally

solid church like the First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida,

well, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line.

I have extensive lists of faithful churches spanning the globe and I have helped many people all over the world

find good, solid churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live and that may be you too.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line.

Also, folks, I want to remind you if you're a man in ministry leadership, I am having the next Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, absolutely free of charge, at Church of the Living Christ

in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

Not only will you be fed physically and enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with men in the

ministry, you're going to hear an absolutely wonderful message, I'm sure,

from my dear friend Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author, and also

Pastor David T. King of Christ Church in Katy, Texas, and not

only are they going to be speaking at my luncheon, but they are also conducting a

three -day Bible conference on the three days following the luncheon in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania at

the Grace Bible Fellowship.

Church.

But if you want to register for either of those events or both of those events, the first event,

the luncheon, is for men in ministry leadership only, the second, the three -day Bible conference is open

to everyone, men, women, and children, just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com, and put luncheon and put conference or both

in the subject line.

And also, don't forget about the conference that we are discussing during this

interview, Examining the New Birth, which is the First Love Ministries' first annual Bible conference

in Milton, Florida, being held at the church where my guest Austin Huggins serves on the pastoral

team.

That's March 3rd through the 5th, and if you want more details on that where you can register for free,

go to firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org.

Last but not least, folks, the G3

conference, which is coming up in September, that you have been hearing advertised every

single day with ads voiced by my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega

Ministries.

I'm urging you all to go to the G3 conference and go to this mind -blowing,

wonderful, beneficial conference.

I have never been to a G3 conference where I didn't leave there absolutely and

thoroughly and delightfully blessed.

I have had an exhibitors booth there that I have manned every year.

I think this is the seventh or eighth, perhaps, G3 conference I've attended in Atlanta,

Georgia.

And so I am hoping that many of you will join me at this conference.

And guess what?

As the ads say, you're going to get 30 off the registration fee if you use the

promo code G3ISIR.

Now, there's been a contest going on with all of the media outlets,

including Iron Trip and Zion Radio, that have been promoting this.

I was very disappointed that although we beat Sermon Audio in the number of registrations we

got, there were at least five other media outlets that beat us in regard

to the number of registrations.

So far, of which I'm aware, we only have 27 people who've registered for the G3 conference through Iron Trip and

Zion Radio.

So please, I'm urging you to register at g3men .org, g3men

.org.

And they have a huge lineup of speakers.

And as I said, you are going to be thoroughly blessed at this event.

They expect 7 ,000 people again in Atlanta, Georgia.

And this is going to help further ensure that G3 Ministries keeps

renewing their advertising every year for this event.

So I hope that I don't hear bad news next year that they're not going to advertise because they have found

out that we didn't get them enough registrations.

So please, go to g3men .org, g3men .org, and register

for this conference, which is being held this September.

And the lineup is huge, including Dr. James R. White and Voli Baucom and Paul Washer and many

others.

So I hope to see you there in September at the G3 conference.

Now, if you want to join us on the air with a question for Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor about examining the new birth,

send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And Austin Huggins, if you could pick up where Eddie left off, we were answering a question by

Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who disagrees with

at least a handful of reformed folks.

He said that in his experience it's not the majority, but there are some reformed folks who

totally discount the genuineness of somebody's salvation if they believe in baptismal regeneration, even if

everything else they believe is correct.

And I was wondering where you stand on that as well.

Yeah, I'm in agreement clearly with what Dr. Delcor's perspective is there.

Like he, I'm not particularly a devoted student of Martin

Luther in terms of all of his writings.

There is a, I guess if you want to call it an analogy of Luther's faith, you know, Sola Fide really

was the cry of his ministry.

It's really why he had such issues when misunderstanding the book of James and the

statements there regarding works and his fury against what he thought

was a statement worthy of, I wish I could throw Jimmy in the stove at one point in the side note

columns when he was wrestling with that.

I think the soul of a man is a deep well according to scripture

in terms of where he might be confused and wrongly identifying definitions

to words.

And while I cannot broad brush the broad spectrum, I can definitively say

based on the scriptures, if a man or a woman is placing their

trust, their salvific trust upon a work they are

doing, however they define that, and they are not trusting in Christ

by faith alone, in Christ alone, then at the core and the essence of what is

salvation they have stepped outside and are guilty

of what Paul warns in the opening chapter in the book of Galatians, having been turned aside to works,

trusting in works, faith in works, faith in something that you do, and whether that is an act of baptism or

trusting in your decision or some other thing, we can put a clear line there.

I don't know if Dalkor you want to accentuate or liberate or whatever you'd like to do.

No, I think we've said enough on that topic.

And again, there is a difference between rejecting sola fide and being

confused with it.

And so, you know, even within church literature, sometimes there

were men like us, and some of them were very smart, some of them were not so smart.

And you mentioned James and Luther, and of course, one of the things that are

misunderstood with Luther, and not to belabor this point on the book of James, it's not that he

saw it as non -canonical, he saw it as non -epistolic.

But then later he talked about, he actually gave some praises to James and included it in his German

Bible.

So like I said, when you're evaluating church history, here's the bottom line,

tristics in church history is never a valid hermeneutic to interpret the Bible.

Yeah, we just use those things as we use and make use of and benefit from

any teacher where they are correctly exegeting the

scriptures, but we don't hold them with any higher authority or even

unequal authority to the scriptures themselves.

And in fact, that's why even reformed people who share our convictions have to be

very careful not to be guilty of hero worship, where they believe in

something just because somebody from history is their favorite teacher.

And it could even be a modern day teacher or preacher.

And please, my dear Presbyterian friends, do not be insulted by this,

but I have met quite a number of people, more than I care to admit,

who changed their view from credo -baptism,

the understanding that baptism is for repentant believers alone and not infants,

they changed their view to accept infant baptism.

And they've actually told me, now I'm not saying this is the majority of people, don't misunderstand me, but

on a number of occasions in my own experience, people have told me that the reason that they

switched to infant baptism was how could Calvin be wrong?

How could George Whitfield be wrong?

How could John Owen be wrong?

And how could Jonathan Edwards be wrong?

And on and on and on.

And then they weren't using the Bible to defend their change of heart on the issue.

So I'm just saying that even we who are Calvinists.

Have to be very careful about hero worship.

I have a dear friend in Northern California, Dr. William Downing.

He's a Baptist Reformer.

What's that?

I just said yes, he's been on the program.

In fact, I want to get him back on.

He works with us, he's part of our organization, he's retired as pastor, but what a phenomenal

exegete, and he's written just a vast amount of books on hermeneutics.

And a humble man as well.

Very humble, very funny too, if you know him, he's just a funny guy.

I did several conferences with him, and I know his son, but it's funny because one of his favorite,

he's Baptist.

Don't call him Reform though, he'll get offended.

He'll say, we were before the Reformation.

He's the Baptist.

But he one of his favorite commentaries, or

systematic theologies, is Robert Raymond.

It's one of his favorites.

Of course he disagrees on patal baptism, but that's one of his favorite

systematic theologies.

His systematic theology is fantastic, but it's really funny.

I was talking to Dr. Downing about that issue, about that systematic theology, and Robert

Raymond.

I like what Spurgeon said, he said, we can't let the water divide the brethren.

I was telling Austin some of these issues.

The only thing that we're going to teach on the conference, baptism will come up in

refuting the idea that you must do the work of baptism in order to be justified.

We call it baptismal regeneration.

I also call it baptismal justification.

These views are held by Church of Christ, Roman Catholicism, and other

groups.

I think it should be pointed out, number one, the importance of baptism.

Biblically, it is important to show, and it was a sign.

It was a sign of the seal, covenant of grace.

The unification you have with, actually, which is the primary meaning, unification or

identification you have with the person in which you're being baptized.

It was a unification ceremony.

We're going to point out that although it's very important, just like the two sacraments in Scripture in the New

Testament, as with the Lord's Supper, but it's not a means or a cause

of justification.

So on my topic, we'll go through that.

Also, we'll go through decisional regeneration, and Austin promised that I wouldn't get kicked out if I talk

about that.

I will.

Mention that the sinner's prayer.

Why on earth would you be kicked out of a Reformed conference for speaking against decisional

regeneration?

Because not everyone's Reformed.

It's a vast amount of people that are coming, that's why.

Oh, okay.

You're talking about the audience.

That's why it's going to be so exciting.

The audience.

It really is.

Paul preached a number of times, and he got carried out by a few mobs, and they were a mixed multitude.

We have the opportunity, as I was saying at a different part in the program, we have a real opportunity

to draw on people's blackboards, perhaps either for the first time, or within a

clearly biblically expounded way, archetypal doctrines that they've

never heard before.

There are going to be quite a number of Reformed brethren who are dyed in the wool, and they know the scriptures, they

understand biblical justification, and for them, this is really going to serve as a

powerful reorientation to consider the miracle of the new birth in the positive

context of what it is, what has the Lord done in us, how do we be good stewards of the manifold grace of

God, and in the other sense, you're sounding a clear note.

You're raising the trumpet of God's gospel of grace in such a way where you

see the miracle of it in real time declared in the scriptures, and for a lot of people, this is going to open up

a lot of discussion points that hitherto they have not been introduced to.

So you have, you know, Paul Washer opened up his ten indictments with this statement one time.

I thought it was great.

He said, I know we have Calvinists here, we have Arminians, and all sorts of

strange animals in between.

And, you know, in the wide array of what you find down here in the South, I can't think of a more fitting

banner over which those who are in attendance will probably be.

As all these things are addressed in the positive, our goal is to be, rather than dive off

into every possible wrong minutia or wrong expression of those

doctrines, we want to positively affirm from the scriptures definitively what is

the new birth in all of its glory.

There will be two Q &A panels for those who are coming.

At the end of Saturday, there will be, after the final session, an hour Q &A.

All the speakers will be there.

We'll be taking questions throughout.

So if you're coming to the conference, you'll certainly be given an opportunity to ask questions, whether

it's something you heard in the conference itself, whether it's something you've heard myself or Dr. Dalkor here talk about and you want to

drill in deeper.

For those who are coming in from out of town and they need a church to be at for that

Lord's Day, there will be another Q &A panel after the Lord's Day service as well for any

remaining questions.

So there will be plenty of opportunities besides the breakout sessions to actually talk and go in further detail

on a.

Number of these issues.

And that website again is firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org to find out more of

the details about the conference and also to register for free.

And you were just about to say something, Eddie?

Yeah, I was going to ask Austin, how many speakers.

In total will be there?

Yeah, thanks brother.

Two, four, six, eight.

I scrolled down real quick.

We have eight speakers in total.

Beside you and me, we have Dr. Paul Nelson.

We have Dr. Stan Morrell, Pastor Stephen Ringel, my co -elder.

We have Dr. Johnny White, Brother Tom Smith, and Pastor Joe.

Jackiewicz.

And Joe Jackiewicz is going to speak Sunday morning at the church.

Yeah, he'll be.

Addressing the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and the marks of the new birth that Sunday morning.

Amen.

Great, great.

That's great news.

We have a question from a mutual friend of all of

ours, Timothy Oliver.

I usually don't give a full name of the listener, but Timothy Oliver of jesusiscreator

.org, Christian Soldier Ministries.

He says, Dr. William Downing, and for those of you who tuned in late,

Eddie Delcor was just mentioning this great man of God.

Dr. William Downing disagreed with Robert Raymond on the end of Romans 7.

Please have Eddie explain in further.

Detail.

Yeah, actually funny, you know, if you read Romans 7, I think, what is it, 14 through 24,

when Paul just goes into these, the words he used, what I want to do, I can't do because of sin,.

You know, it could be a tongue twister.

And there's a debate, there's a debate amongst reformed people whether he is talking about a saved person or lost

person.

Right, right.

One note before I address that, when I was on this athletic ministry, a good friend of mine, who Austin used to,

they came to Austin's time, and he assisted him, Mike Hagan, he had dyslexia, and he was one of the leaders of the

team I was on.

And when we would, Sunday morning, we're all suit and tie, and we would give messages, he would give a message, and he had some message on

that.

And since it was hard for him to read it, no matter what church we're at, he would say,

Eddie, can you come up, and I want you to read these passages, you know.

But yeah, it could be a tongue twister.

Yeah, the two views are, is Paul talking about, the two basic views, because there's another view, but the two basic views is

Paul talking about his pre -conversion, or is Paul talking about post

-conversion, and the struggle he has as a Christian.

And you have, you have great guys on both sides, you really do.

You have,.

The majority, the majority that I know of are saying that Paul is speaking about himself

present.

Tense.

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of folks who, who would hold to that, but also you

have Martin Lloyd -Jones, you have Douglas, you have Mu, you have a whole lot who

do not hold to that position, but it is somewhat a reformed tradition.

If you look at the reformers, they, they look at Paul's present life, but you have, you have two views.

Yeah, Dr. Downing held to the, probably a majority view that

it, Paul's speaking about his, his life as a Christian.

I mean, I want it to be that view because it, you know, it makes sense, but there, there's problems on both views.

In fact, anyone who says it's just cut and dry and it's simple dimple, I would suggest for them really to

look at the linguistics, not only the words, but the context.

For instance, Paul talks about that, that he's in bondage

to sin.

Now he just used that phrase.

And when he does use that phrase, he's talking about pre -converted.

So that's one of the problematic words or phrases that Paul uses.

And there, there's other things, but yet Paul uses present tense, tenses in the verbs.

As Daniel Wallace said, here's, here's how difficult it is to actually exegete a, you know, to come to some

kind of, which you can, I think it's impossible to come to a categorical decision.

That's why you have both views by a whole lot of good guys.

Daniel Wallace said, oh, now he was, he's one of the standards on Greek grammar.

Of course, his area is textual criticism, but you know, he wrote several books on Greek grammar, which are standards and

seminaries.

And he said this about those passages.

He said, if there's a set of passages in the Bible that bother me most, it's these,

because both sides, it's problematic.

And there's, he even posits another view that Paul's talking about man in general, but it's

problematic on both sides.

And you know, I guess we won't know categorically, right, until hopefully Lord wills,

until we're in glory.

In fact, I think.

That Douglas Moo was involved in a friendly collegiate debate

at a John Bunyan conference I attended years ago in Pennsylvania, New Bering Gold, Pennsylvania, on this issue,

because there was, there were men on the speaking roster who had the different views.

So there was some disagreement.

And I remember finding it quite fascinating.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

And Susan Margaret asked, don't you think that whether or

not we can view someone as a brother and sister in Christ, and

whether or not their claimed experience of the new birth is genuine, is also

something very important if God does bring revival in a particular

region at a particular time, to whether or not, to know whether or not this revival is a true or

false one.

In other words, the fruits of the revival.

Yeah, is the question, just so I understand, is it important to discern the fruit of a revival, whether it's

legitimate or not?

Yeah, I believe what she is asking is, since we are talking about

examining the new birth, obviously we're talking about how do

we discern whether we ourselves are truly born again, or the others

around us are, and none of us obviously have the mind of God to determine

someone that we know infallibly whether they are Christian or not.

But there are certain things that would be litmus tests.

And so if there is a revival, or something that is identified by many people as

a revival, let's say in Milton, Florida, where you are.

And when you're looking at what is actually happening, whether or not these people are manifesting

genuine fruits of new birth is very important as to whether or not you would consider it a revival at all,

or.

Counterfeit experience these people are having.

Well, of course, and just for context, you know, we're one county over from Pensacola where the

famous, or perhaps infamous, Brownsville revival took place several

decades ago.

You know, whether or not we discern truth, yes, that is, of course,

very important.

We are called to test the spirits, to test the message, to test fruit.

No, the question is, you know, do we know infallibly these things?

You know, of course not.

There is a sense in which we are left at times to not judge before the time.

But when fruit is clear, like our Master said, you will know a tree by its fruit.

You know, firstly, we look at our own lives and, you know, do we bring forth fruit meat for repentance?

You know, is there a fear of God?

Is there a hunger for His Word?

Or is there conformity to the Lord Jesus Christ?

Yes, even a righteous man stumbles seven times a day.

But Paul says, you know, I have not yet apprehended that which I've been apprehended for, but forgetting

that which is behind, I press on towards the high mark and the high call of God and Christ Jesus.

You know, and in terms of a larger setting, you know, I know this is a big

topic, especially right now with what's going on out there, and I believe it's Kentucky,

and I don't want to segue too hard here, but if a

gathering of this kind is not attended by the Scriptures,

sound teaching, if the fruit of it is not a deepening of the fear of God, if the fruit of it is not a

deepening of the knowledge of Christ and the Gospel, if man is not becoming more

aware of the exceeding sinfulness of his sin, if there's not a sense of

holiness, for instance, when the prophet Isaiah saw the Lord high and lifted up,

I mean, that's as in the presence of the Spirit of the Lord as I think you can be.

He was immediately struck with his own sinfulness.

He says, Woe is me, for I am undone, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a

people of unclean lips.

One of the first fruits of true revival are the fruits of repentance, and

without the fear of the Lord, without a deepening of the knowledge of Christ, of his

Word, of the Scriptures, of some degree of purity that testifies to the

Spirit of truth within it, I mean, it's amazing what the flesh can do, what emotions can do, the

high people can experience, even at perfectly secular conferences and

concert events, people in tears and shaking.

The externals in and of themselves are not what we're looking for.

We're looking for these spiritual markers, and Scripture does give us them, I believe.

I don't know if you have anything.

To add, Brother Delcor.

Well, you said it all.

Unfortunately, tradition or emotion can motivate bad doctrine, because if you're

motivated and emotionally high, I've always made that point.

People like the cruise ship director pastor, a guy in the revival who

really is a carnival barker, but they like that, the good -looking guy in the skinny jeans and all that, which I

don't mind, but it seems to always be attached to really bad doctrine, and we know

that, and we're going to deal with this at our conference, dealing with

defective altercals, and how that emerged, and the difference

between some of the revivals of Jonathan Edwards and Whitefield, and so on and so forth, the differences in

doctrine and the emotionalism on the other side, promulgated by Charles Finney, and

just promulgating the idea that Romans 10 .9 is some kind of sinner's prayer, and all these things.

And it's used today.

These passages are used today.

Revelation 3 .20, I stand at the door and knock, is normally used at evangelical revivals, even though

it's not an evangelical passage.

It's a promise to us that Jesus is always knocking on our door.

He wants more of us.

Same with Matthew 7 .7 -8.

This is to Christians.

Revelation 3 .20 is to Christians, the Church of Laodicea, but they're always misused, as much as

Jeremiah 20 .9 -11.

We're going to deal with all that, and you know, I'm just excited because of this conference.

Each one of us has these, even though the whole topic centers on the new birth and

regeneration, what that is, and so on, and what it's not.

All of us have different topics, and it's a wide variety of what you're going to, what the

listener is going to hear.

I think it's going to be super beneficial, and I'm excited about being part of it.

I'm excited about the subject matter.

I'm excited about hearing Paul Nelson, and Stan Merrill, and Joe.

Absolutely.

It's going to be great.

I'm really looking forward to it, brother, and you know, we've been working together for years now, and it's always, the fellowship is sweet, and

I love it.

You know, and I couldn't help as you were bringing up Whitefield and Wesley.

You know, Chris, if your listeners are not familiar with the Life and Times

of George Whitefield by Arnold Dalimore, I would highly commend that.

It is a big read.

It's large, two volumes.

I was informed by a local Reformed brother that there is a slimmed down version of it also available,

but in there it details a lot of what took place in that 17th century revival,

and you know, it was interesting between Whitefield and Wesley, and the doctrinal issues that

eventually emerged, and kind of dominated some of their relationship.

You saw within Wesley's side, not that the spirit was not moving, not that there was not true

regeneration.

Even, you know, Whitefield did testify to that, but Wesley ran into some serious issues when

the enemy began to make these emotional aspects of

his work a larger priority than it ought to have been, and whether it was the enemy

counterfeiting it or the flesh counterfeiting it, they ran into a number of very serious issues, and

inevitably Whitefield, rightfully so, had to.

Write a serious letter regarding the doctrine.

Yes, and I would urge everybody listening to go to cvbbs .com, who sponsor this

show, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, and you could order the biography

of George Whitefield by Dalimore there, and you could also get a book that definitely

involves exactly what we are discussing right now, an absolutely superb book by

Ian H. Murray, Revival and Revivalism, published by Banner of

Truth.

It really is, in the majority, a contrast between

true and false revival and true and false evangelists

of revival.

Asahel Nettleton being a truly born -again believer with sound doctrine, and Charles

Finney being a very suspect individual with a false gospel and false

revivals, which Ian describes as revivalism,

and this is like nearly 500 pages.

You got to get a hold of it if you don't have it already, and that's a Banner of Truth book, and go to

cvbbs .com.

They carried it there.

We're going to our final break.

If you have a question, please send it in now because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Don't go away.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my long -time friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

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Welcome back.

I've just been informed that there is another reason why you should try your best to

attend First Love Ministries' first annual Bible conference in Milton,

Florida, March 3rd through the 5th, is that Richard Homeris and Bobby Hamlin,

who are on staff at First Love Radio, who is live streaming this program as we speak,

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firstloveministries .org.

Now I'll have each of you men just basically summarize in

no more than a minute and a half what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today

in regard to the topic, and the conference will start with Eddie Delcor.

I hope he's not eating cookies, and then we'll go to.

Austin Huggins.

They were healthy.

I think this conference, as with a lot of conferences that deal with essential doctrine, I

think it's going to be very beneficial for those who want to go further in their study, further in their knowledge of who

God is in terms of how he relates to his people, and how he

relates to the unregenerate as well.

And I think it will enormously increase exegetical skill,

because we need people to go out around the world, but we need the right people with the right

message to evangelize.

And one of the themes in this conference, first of course we're all on the same page on this, one of the

main themes in this evangelistic conference is that we're saved by God alone.

It is God alone who regenerates.

It is God alone who justifies.

It is God alone who glorifies, and thank God that he uses us as

means to evangelize, to proclaim the cross work of Christ.

So this revival will also disambiguate a lot of the

false notions and bad doctrines that people have, and the confusion between justification and

regeneration and all these things.

So I'm looking forward to it.

I personally know most of the speakers.

I'm looking forward to for myself to hear, and I will say as a teacher, as a speaker, that

we're always, and I can speak for Austin and the others, it's always a benefit to us when we teach, when we preach.

It's always a benefit to us.

We receive the benefit over and over and over, every time we teach, every time we, the most

encouraging thing for me is to watch people write notes down.

It's just awesome, and so I'm looking forward to it.

I'm looking forward to meeting everyone.

I'm looking forward to getting together with a lot of friends I haven't seen for a while, and I'm

mainly looking forward to communicate the Word of God, communicate the Word of God in this, these, and this

particular subject matter.

And Austin, you got about a minute.

Yeah, if I could just leave one statement clearly ringing in the ears of your listeners, you

must be born again.

That statement comes to those of Muslim background, of atheistic background, of Catholic background, or even

Baptist church attendance 50 years background.

Your history, all that you are, all your works, none of these things will avail at the judgment.

You must be born again.

If you are not born again, you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven.

If you're not born again, you will not enter.

Please join us March 3rd through 5th as the various pastors and teachers at First Love Ministries press into the great mystery of

this regeneration with fresh zeal so that we can be strengthened in these truths.

Please remember the conference is free, conference registration is free, there are free books, free

literature, free materials.

Saturday and Sunday the lunches will be included.

We look forward to those who will attend, and we look forward to being able to not only answer questions, but to

strengthen the unity and the fellowship of the churches in the sound doctrine and in the gospel of the Lord Jesus.

Christ.

And register at FirstLoveMinistries .org, FirstLoveMinistries .org.

I want to thank my guests.

I want to thank everybody who listened.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

Have a very blessed, safe, happy, joyful, and healthy weekend and Christ -honoring Lord's

Day.