February 17, 2023 Show with Austin Huggins & Dr. Edward Dalcour on “Examining the New Birth” (Part 2)

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of Founding Father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

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George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

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Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnson. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 17th day of February, 2023.

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This is part two of a discussion that we began yesterday with my guests,

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Austin Huggins, preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries, and one of the pastors of First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida, and Edward Delcor, a preacher and missionary for First Love Ministries as well, and the president and director of Department of Christian Defense.

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Today, we are continuing the discussion we began yesterday on the theme, Examining the

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New Birth, which is also the theme of an upcoming conference, the first annual

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First Love Ministries conference, to be held at the First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor.

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Thank you, Brother Chris. It's good to be back on the line with you. Thank you. Delighted to be here again with you,

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Chris. And for the sake of our listeners who missed yesterday's show, Austin, please tell us about the

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First Baptist Church of Baghdad, Florida. Yes, the First Baptist Church of Baghdad is located in Florida.

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We're in Santa Rosa County, just one town over from Pensacola. We are just a

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Baptist church here in the area that is going through a reformation. We are just completing, going through the 1689 on Wednesday nights.

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We're adopting that confession of faith, and we are looking forward to being able to put on a conference addressing examining the new birth, and really praying that, if the

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Lord wills, we would be able to be a light, not only to the saints here in Baghdad and in Milton, but to the whole of Santa Rosa County, bringing sound doctrine and the biblical gospel.

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Why don't you share the website of that fine church with our listeners? Our church website is fbcbagdad .org.

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Baghdad is spelled without the H, B -A -G -D -A -D, fbcbagdad .org.

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And Eddie Delcor, please let our listeners know about the Department of Christian Defense. Department of Christian Defense is a apologetic educational,

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Christian educational ministry. The website is christiandefense .org,

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christiandefense .org. It's a hub for all kinds of information on different non -Christian religions and groups, atheistic groups, particularly oneness, theology,

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Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, and also it provides information on general theological issues, and we have literature that we offer.

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We offer some books on the Trinity and oneness, Pentecostalism, and other things, and some other sources and references.

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And that website I happen to have right in front of me, christiandefense .org, christiandefense .org.

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Now Austin, if you could pick up the ball here and tell our listeners about the

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First Love Ministries' first annual conference to be held at the church where you serve as one of the pastors in Milton, Florida.

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Yeah, thanks Chris. This really is an exciting time. For anyone who is familiar with First Love Ministries, either through the books and the publications that they receive from our ministry regularly, or through the missionary activity that we do overseas, our drive really is to bring people to the knowledge of Christ, to provoke the church to return to her first love, from which we get the name of the ministry out of Revelation chapter 2,

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Christ's exhortation to the church at Ephesus. But this conference here, being the first annual in this region, is going to be addressing examining the new birth.

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We're going to talk about why regeneration matters. We'll look at the actual doctrine of the new birth. Dr. Dalkor will be addressing what is not the new birth, for example, baptismal, decisional regeneration.

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We'll be looking at the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit, sermons on revival and awakening, biblical revival and biblical awakening.

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We'll also be looking at regeneration of church history, pastoral ministries, evangelism methodology, everything that getting this right or wrong touches.

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The conference will be March 3rd through 5th. We'll have various pastors and speakers and teachers here at First Love coming and pressing into the mystery of the new birth with fresh zeal, desiring that the churches may be strengthened in this foundational teaching of Christianity.

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It is free. The conference registration is free. We will be distributing books and literature that will be free.

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Saturday's lunch will also be free. So please go ahead and visit us at firstloveministries .org

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and sign up for that. Dr. Dalkor is going to be there as well. And I know he's really excited to be coming in all the way from California.

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We're looking forward to the fellowship, right brother? Yes, we are. We're looking forward to the fellowship and all the people coming to hear this very vital to the

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Christian life and very important subject matter that we'll be providing. Austin, what topic are you hitting specifically?

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I know we have several different speakers. Well, interestingly, I planned on doing regeneration, revival, and awakening.

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I know there's a lot of attention to that right now, but the goal really is to set forth a hope for the church that's based not in the pragmatism or the methodology of the age, but in the biblical and historical reality that God alone brings life.

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And what does it look like when people humble themselves before the God of the Bible and look to this great, wonder -working miracle of new life?

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And you can go to firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org, to get all the details that you need about this conference.

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And by the way, I want to let our listeners know that if you go to my Facebook page, type in, in the search engine of Facebook, Chris Arnzen, A -R -N -Z -E -N, you're going to see where I have an announcement for yesterday and today's interview with my guests.

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You're going to see a very rare photograph. It may be just as rare as a

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Bigfoot sighting, a Loch Ness monster sighting, or a UFO sighting.

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It's a photograph that has Eddie Delcor smiling in it. So you might be fascinated by that.

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Every time I've had a photo taken with Eddie Delcor, he looks like he is trying to psych out an arm -wrestling opponent.

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He's got a look of rage on his face. Or maybe he's just disgusted and embarrassed because he's standing next to me and getting his photo taken with me,

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I'm not sure. But I'm going to give our listeners our email address if you have any questions about this very important topic, examining the new birth, chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, give us a first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you are in a church and you disagree with the church's position on regeneration.

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And obviously you don't want to identify yourself, call attention to your identity if you're disagreeing with your own church.

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You might even be a pastor who has, through your own biblical study, you may have come to a different position than you originally had, a position that may be in disagreement with your other elders, with your denomination.

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And I understand that you would want to remain anonymous if that is the case as well. Things like that, you may remain anonymous, but please, if it's just a general question about the theology behind the discussion, the scriptural evidence behind what we are saying, or historical accounts of beliefs on this issue, what have you, if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

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Perhaps I'll start with Eddie this time. What do you believe from your own experience as an apologist and what you've witnessed in the church at large?

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What do you think are some of the most serious misconceptions and errors when it comes to an understanding of regeneration and the new birth?

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And I'm even talking about not necessarily cults and the

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Church of Rome and false world religions. I'm talking about your average evangelical church, and it seems that something that you already mentioned and something that we were talking about yesterday, decisional regeneration,

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I think that that may be the prominent and dominant view amongst modern evangelicals is decisional regeneration.

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But anyway, pick up. Yeah, because psychologically, it just kind of makes sense. You do your part.

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God does his part. I was in a Bible study. I teach this new Bible study actually in Farmer's Market in Los Angeles, and most of the guys are from Calvary Chapel.

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I was invited, and they asked me to speak a few times, and they want me to speak a lot.

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But the fact of the matter is the misconceptions that most, again, as mentioned,

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I don't like to use the word most, but too many Christians have such misconceptions as to salvation.

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And normally, unfortunately, they define it in Roman Catholic terms unknowingly, just as they define the

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Trinity in oneness terms unknowingly. Justification in Roman Catholic terms.

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And then when you say, well, biblically speaking, we do see a process. There is an order of salvation.

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Then they accuse you of, you know, what do you mean a process? You know, we don't believe we're saved by works and all these things.

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So there's an enormous misconception on that issue. One of the guys at this Bible study said he got really mad at John MacArthur.

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He said, I just don't understand. And all these guys are Calvary Chapel people. He got very upset, and he was conveying his anger.

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He said, John MacArthur said, the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is simply this.

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Calvinism teaches the sovereignty of God. Arminian teaches the sovereignty of man.

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No, that's not true. We believe that God is sovereign, but we do have to do our part. You know, but that's what you find, this kind of misconception.

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And when you're dealing with regeneration, what you find is not only is regeneration the normal, it seems the average

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Christian thinks not only is regeneration a result of your faith.

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You believe. You make a decision, and then God rewards you or God, you know, makes you born again because you made that choice on the basis of what you did.

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But there's also an enormous misconception on the aspects of salvation.

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For instance, many would see justification as the same thing as regeneration or election the same thing as justification.

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Sanification may be the same thing as the election. So even the points of salvation, there's so many misconceptions.

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And a lot of these folks, and I just want to advise a lot of folks that want to try to help people, take baby steps because you can't just unload all this doctrine they've never been exposed to and expect them just to get it in five microseconds.

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You've got to take baby steps on these kind of issues and use Scripture, don't use philosophy, because the Scriptures are very clear.

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All these things are delineated in such a clear and cogent way that any literate person can understand these basic truths of what regeneration is, what justification is, election, sanctification, and the other doctrines of salvation.

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And if you could, Austin, pick up with your own comments on this. Yeah, I think we have hit our target if we accomplish just a couple things here in light of the misconceptions that are myriad and that are rampant in all different directions, both to restore the doctrinal integrity of what the new birth is, to distinguish it from what it's not, whether that is conflating justification with regeneration, or having a completely wrong sense of what brings about regeneration, like decisionalism or baptismal regeneration, or some human work that makes this go, to restore the

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Christ -centric, the grace -centric, the God -centric sovereignty aspect, that He makes us willing in the day of His power, that the heart of the kings is in the hand of the

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Lord, and like the rivers, He turns them whichsoever way He will, that we're born again not of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, nor of blood, but of God.

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And then, on the other side, to really restore the majesty of the wonder. I mean, when we talk about the new birth, we are literally talking about a foul creature, dead in its trespasses and sins, in rebellion against the

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God who made him, being clothed in the righteousness of very God Himself, made a new creature, the blind seeing, the dead raised to life with new hunger, new desires, with a desire to know

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Christ and to walk and be called a saint, literally a holy one. This is such a remarkable demonstration of God's creating and really recreating power, who calls forth light out of darkness, that if the people come away from this conference having both been taught and then granted a view of this miracle that would lend itself to a heart of worship,

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I think we've really accomplished what we desire to do in pushing back against the misconceptions.

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And, Eddie, why is this conversation so important? Why is a correct understanding of the new birth, understanding it rightly, why is it so important when all of us, all three of us know, that in spite of sloppy theology, bad theology, those that come to Christ in all truth and reality, and an authentic conversion takes place, they're going to be born again, they're going to heaven, whether or not they understand these things correctly.

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There are people that have accused me of being a nitpicker.

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When I have these discussions on the show, they think that what

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I do can be compared to counting the number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin.

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When there's a whole world going to hell who don't know

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Christ, wasting time, picking on other Christians, we could go on and on and on with these kinds of attacks and insults by those who think that what we are discussing is trivial.

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But why is this important? Are you there,

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Eddie? He muted himself. Sorry, I was eating cookies.

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It's very important because the Holy Spirit decided to devote a lot of space to this particular doctrine, this doctrine that God does.

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Jesus thought it was very important because that was basically the first words he told Nicodemus, you must be, if I can use a synonymous term, you must be regenerated.

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So it's something that was important to Jesus. It was something that was important to Paul because he writes about it.

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It was important to the Apostle Peter because he writes about it.

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And it lets us know the riches of his glory in the grace that he gave to us in making us alive, and here it is, when he didn't have to.

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He's not obligated to make anybody alive, but because of his grace, as we read in Ephesians 1, this was according to the kindness of his will, according to his sovereign choice.

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Because all of us were born, all of us in our mother's womb, in the zygote stage, had a total inability, guilty with sin.

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He didn't have to save anyone, and we would go to hell rightfully and justly, but out of his grace and mercy, he made us alive.

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So I think it's very important because this is an activity of God that he wants us to know because he writes about it over and over and over.

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And it's a center point in our evangelism when we're preaching, proclaiming the gospel.

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As Jesus proclaimed the gospel to Nicodemus, you must be born again, and then he defines the agent of regeneration, the person of the

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Holy Spirit. So it's a foremost doctrine. Now, you're right, Chris. We don't hold to doctrinal perfectionism.

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I don't. I don't hold to – well, you do have to know how many angels can dance But we don't hold to doctrinal perfectionism.

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However, if you want to grow, as the Bible says, to grow in the grace and knowledge of our

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Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, growing in knowledge is something that we do in our sanctification.

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These are the doctrines that we should know because, Chris, not only will it help us in evangelism, understanding that salvation is at the prerogative of God, understanding that people are unregenerate and understanding what that means.

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We become more effectual in our evangelism. We become more productive, and we don't just sit there and give some kind of blood moon prophecy or something.

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I mean, we're preaching the cross work because we know that men are dead, and we know that only God can make them alive.

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So that's why I think it's very, very important. It's a doctrine of God that he wants us to know about. That's why he writes so much about it.

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And, Austin, don't you think that this also goes hand in hand with the very important matter of who we, in our day -to -day lives, identify as a brother or sister in Christ, not only in casual conversations and when we are having opportunities to share time and meals with people, but also the more important matter of who our leaders in our own congregations are to welcome into membership.

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These are very important issues, aren't they? Absolutely, and Dr. Stan Morell will even be talking with pastors during one of our breakout sessions to address the importance of regeneration in the pastoral ministry, a regenerate church membership in particular as well.

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I mean, but Jude speaks to this. He talks about there are certain men who have crept in unaware, before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men.

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There is an earnest contending for the faith in these things. The importance of just how paramount this really is.

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I think our dear brother, Pastor Osinachi, he's an avid listener of this program in Nigeria.

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He may be listening right now. But Pastor Osinachi recently at a conference in Nigeria said, the doctrine of regeneration is a matter of first importance.

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And I agree with him wholeheartedly. Especially in a nation like Nigeria, I think this is exemplified.

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I think we have a type here to really look at. If you go to, let's say, the

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Joshua Project, and you look at the statistics for the nation of Nigeria, it says 51 % of the nation is

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Christian. A slight majority, 51 % with the remaining 49 % largely a militant

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Islam. But if you get there on the ground, and you interface with what is called

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Christianity in the land of Nigeria, the dominant form of Christianity there is

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N .A .R., New Apostolic Reformation, Health, Wealth, Prosperity, Gospel, Name it and Claim it,

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Signs and Wonders, with Apostle and Prophet so -and -so, raining blessings or cursings down on your head.

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And when it comes to the cross of Jesus Christ and the Gospel, they are largely, largely uninformed and even ignorant.

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For instance, the blood of Jesus, they will write those words on their cars so that they don't get into car wrecks.

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They see it as the talisman of protection. Much the same way as when you go to a witch doctor, he'll slaughter a chicken, spray its blood on you as a talisman of protection.

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Well, in their mind, what's more powerful than the blood of a chicken? Ah, the blood of Christ.

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They don't know the blood is for atonement. They don't know and understand the crosswork is for the redemption of sinners from the penalty and power and presence of sin.

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And so there are false brethren everywhere. Even the brethren there at Sovereign Grace Bible Church in Lagos are constantly having to preach the doctrine of the new birth, having to preach the

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Gospel, having to say, you must be born again or you will not enter the kingdom. Because so many people think because they went to a healing crusade that they're entering the kingdom.

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And that is one, I don't know if I want to call it a microcosm, but it is at least an example of what we have of variation here.

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There's religion everywhere in the southeastern United States. There are churches here every 200 feet.

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There are so many ideas about what is the Gospel. And if you ask them, you'll get 20 different answers.

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And the reality is there are people who have been in churches for 10, 20, 30, 50 years who are not born again, who are carrying on in grandfather's religion, and we need a wake -up call.

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This is a matter of first importance. Amen, and if I'm not mistaken, I believe Osinachi told me years ago when he first became a listener to Iron Sharp and Zion Radio that the congregation where he serves is the only

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Reformed Baptist church in Nigeria. I could be wrong, but I believe I'm remembering it correctly, at least back then when he first...

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Well, Brother, I have some good news. At the time of him saying that, he would have been largely correct.

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Right now there are a number of church plants, so that number may be up to about four or five now.

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But Pastor Osi's church, along with Pastor Osagi and their elder statesman,

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Pastor Tony Okora, the founding pastor, they are the oldest, most mature of them all.

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And so the other churches look to them for encouragement and support. They have a lot on their shoulders in terms of the work there.

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Amen. Well, if you're listening, Osinachi, it's been a long time since you've submitted a question to guests on Iron Sharp and Zion Radio.

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I'd love to hear from you, if not today, very soon. We have to go to our first break right now. If you have a question for Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor on The New Birth, our e -mail address is chrisorensen at gmail .com.

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chrisorensen at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the good old

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USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Don't go away. We're going to be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharp and Zion Radio, and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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That's liyfc .org. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Praise God for the generous monthly financial support of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the

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So please go to royaldiadem .com and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guests today,

41:08

Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour, who are both speakers, among others, at the

41:13

First Love Ministries First Annual Bible Conference on the theme Examining the

41:18

New Birth, March 3rd through the 5th at the First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida, where one of my guests,

41:26

Austin Huggins, is on the pastoral team there. If you have questions, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

41:34

chrisarnzen at gmail .com. We do have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who has a question.

41:41

Maybe I'll have Eddie start because it is on one of the themes that Eddie is speaking on at the conference.

41:51

Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania said, I have heard differing opinions from Reformed brethren on this question.

42:00

Are those that believe in baptismal regeneration necessarily lost and have a false gospel?

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I am always puzzled when I hear Reformed people say that, not that that is a majority of Reformed people, but I have encountered

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Reformed people that make that claim that to believe in baptismal regeneration negates the possibility you are saved while believing that.

42:28

At the same time, I don't know of any Calvinist who denies the salvation of Martin Luther, who also believed in that, or even going back further in history,

42:39

Augustine, who also believed in that. So I was wondering where you stand on this issue.

42:46

So Eddie, we'll start with you. Still eating cookies,

42:51

Eddie? Hello? Hello? Still muted, brother.

42:58

Sorry. No, this time it was Turkish coffee. The answer, yeah, if you look through patristic history, especially early ones, you'll see the word regeneration.

43:12

You'll see these kind of words. A couple of things we have to understand. Number one, they do not write in English, so some of the concepts do not comport exactly to what we mean by regeneration.

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But in terms of Luther, and I'm not a Lutheran scholar, but in terms of Luther, he was an incredibly complex man in terms of his writing.

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His writing was incredibly complex. He was capricious. He said things, and he said opposite things later.

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So it's almost impossible to get a clear -cut view on Luther's doctrine of baptism as it relates to regeneration.

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Of course, the concept of sola fidei would contradict any kind of baptismal regeneration. Did Luther believe in his mind that works was a means of salvation?

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I would say no, but some of the statements he made could be inferred, inferentially at least, as a baptismal kind of regeneration view.

44:10

Again, Luther's writings were complex, so it's hard to get a clear -cut view on Luther. But take it before Luther.

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There were many who imply a baptismal regeneration view. Just like today, though, sometimes

44:23

I equate it like this. First, many of those passages in patristic literature do not teach what baptismal regenerationists and Catholics and Eastern Orthodox say they teach, because, again, they're dealing with English language when they read these things, and then they deal with snapshot passages.

44:43

So a lot of folks that would have the view that Athanasius and others believed in baptismal regeneration will snapshot a verse or a passage, a statement that they said, and then they would not consider the totality of the entire document, in which many times the sense of what he meant is either interpreted or revealed.

45:09

But dealing with baptismal regeneration, look, if I asked an Arminian, and I'm not one of those who broad -brush every single

45:17

Arminian and say they're just not saved, you would have to, of course, interview. I think it's a reckless thing to say.

45:23

It's alarming, their doctrine, to be sure. It's very alarming. But do they actually understand what they're saying?

45:29

When they say, I'm saved through faith alone, but then when you press, you find out that they had to do something.

45:39

They had to initiate the faith act, which is a verb. When you believe, it's not a noun.

45:46

It's not something you have. You actively believe. God doesn't believe in your behalf. So if you say you're saved by faith alone, many would point out that faith is the cause of regeneration.

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And I would say, no, it's not the cause. It's instrumental. We know this in Romans 5 .1 and other places.

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In fact, there's nowhere grammatically where the prepositions denote on the phrases, justified by faith, justified through faith, upon faith, all these phrases that the apostle uses, not one of them grammatically show that faith was the actual cause.

46:26

I think it would be an accusative. Not anywhere is that shown, but it's all instrumental.

46:33

Faith is the instrument. However, and here's the point. You could be confused, the same kind of confusion

46:40

I hear from Christians who really give a mushy, horrible definition of the

46:45

Trinity. I'm not going to say they're unsaved because they're— and here's the point. There is a difference, as I see, from, say, an

46:53

Arminian who believes, we're saved by faith, but yet I had to do something in order for God to make me alive, in order for God to regenerate me.

47:03

Of course, if you press that, that's not really alone. God's saving you alone because he had to do something, the faith act.

47:11

But there is a difference between that and a Roman Catholic saying, we are not saved by faith alone.

47:16

You must do works such as baptism and other meritorious works in order to be saved.

47:23

So there is a difference from someone being confused on justification, regeneration, the order, what reprobation is, and so on and so forth, or on the

47:33

Trinity, have a horrible definition. Difference between that and that person because he has not been adequately taught and the person, like a

47:42

Roman Catholic or a Oneness Pentecostal saying, we are not saved by faith or there is no

47:47

Trinity and I reject it. See, there is a difference. That's how I see it. Yes, and of course, when you're talking about Rome and you're talking about the cults, it's not just one thing that is added to faith.

48:03

It's a perpetual treadmill of obedience that maintains your salvation in their mind, whereas Lutherans seem to be, and I know it's oxymoronic, they seem to be right on the money with justification by faith alone and yet at the same time believe in baptismal regeneration.

48:24

It's a mystery. I can't understand it. I know it's often explained by Lutherans with whom

48:31

I've had conversations that we are just supposed to teach whatever the

48:38

Bible claims or declares and we're not to be overwhelmed by trying to understand these things that appear to be in conflict.

48:50

That's basically what I've heard in my own words of explaining how they react to these issues that seem to be a baffling issue.

49:05

I mean, because it does seem to contradict all of the solas, especially sola fide.

49:11

But any other thoughts? Go ahead. And as we talked about, I believe it was in the

49:17

Missouri articles, it talks about, I'm not quoting verbatim, if you haven't been baptized and that's your intention or you die early, you're still saved if you put your faith in Christ.

49:33

But it's important to be baptized. You're talking about the Missouri somehow. Missouri, yeah. And so you have statements like that.

49:43

And a lot of times, I don't have to be complex when I read scripture. I mean, I don't have to look for a way out of faith alone.

49:51

You know, I don't have to look. Look, you brought up, Chris, you brought up a Church of Christ person. I had a debate with a

49:57

Church of Christ theolog, slash, pastor, whatever he was. It was a written debate. And he actually said that baptism was not a work.

50:06

And he pointed to John 6, you know, what are the works of God and all these things. But he actually thought in his mind that baptism was not a work.

50:17

It was an act of faith. But, of course, hey, I was baptized. I remember standing up and holding my nose and walking up to the tank and putting my hair in back of me and, you know, saying a string of words.

50:31

And then he – You started holding your nose before you even walked up to the tank? Yeah. It was a receipt of First Baptist Church.

50:40

But I remember, of course, it's a work. I had to walk up those stairs. I had to hold my breath. I had to shake the water out of my head, hair and head.

50:48

Yeah, that's a work. Anything that requires energy, grammatically speaking, even in our language, anything that requires ergon or energy, right, you could be sleeping and you're still doing something that requires energy.

51:02

You're breathing. And Paul says, literally, we are not saved by righteous energies that we do.

51:10

We're not saved by energy. We're saved by faith alone, the instrument, faith alone.

51:18

And I'll have Austin pick up when we return from our midway break. We have to go to our midway break right now.

51:25

Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize geographically all of their programming, including

51:42

Iron Trip and Zion, to Lake City, Florida. They do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things in the middle of our show while we simultaneously, on the other hand, air our globally heard commercials.

51:58

So please use this time wisely. Try to respond to as many of our advertisers as you can using the contact information in their commercials, and we hope that that often means you will purchase their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations, and visit their churches.

52:14

But when you can't do any of those things, please at least do something every one of you can do.

52:20

If you love this show and you're grateful that there are those out there who share their wealth with us so that we can remain on the air, if you're really thankful for that, then thank our advertisers for sponsoring the show.

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That's a very simple thing that anybody listening can do, and that should go a long way in keeping our advertisers happy and wanting to renew their contracts.

52:43

So thank our advertisers if you are indeed thankful and grateful that they keep the show on the air, and also send in your questions to Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour, to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

52:55

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

53:03

Don't go away. We'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

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Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai, in County Kildare, Ireland.

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Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

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Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

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Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

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If you visit, tell them Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sends you.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

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Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

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I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris, if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Getting a driver's license.

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Before I return to my guests, Austin Huggins and Eddie DelCour, on our discussion on examining the new birth and our promotion of the upcoming

01:07:57

First Love Ministries first annual conference on the same theme in Milton, Florida, I have some very pressing issues to share with you.

01:08:05

First of all, if you love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, I'm urging you please to go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

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click support, then click click to donate now. You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

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If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, your business, your private practice like a law firm, like a medical practice, or it's just a special event that you want to promote, well, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:08:50

and put advertising in the subject line. We are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in need of your donations, and the donations have plummeted ever since COVID and the hysteria that followed it and the mandates that shut down and even ruined and closed permanently some businesses, which has reflected in our audience giving far less than we used to receive from our listeners.

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We've never bounced back from that, so please help us. Go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

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And remember, folks, never give your own church where you are a member less money than you are accustomed to giving them every

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Please never do that. And also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you are back on your feet and more stable financially before you send us a financial gift.

01:09:55

Those two things are commands of Scripture to provide for your church and provide for your family, and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

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But if you love the show, you have extra money in the bank collecting interest, you have extra money in the bank for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, you love the show and you don't want it to go away, share some of that money with us so that we can remain on the air.

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Go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

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Also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, like the

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First Baptist Church of Baghdad in Milton, Florida, well, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:10:40

and put, I need a church in the subject line. I have extensive lists of faithful churches spanning the globe, and I have helped many people all over the world find good, solid churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live, and that may be you too.

01:10:54

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put, I need a church in the subject line.

01:11:00

Also, folks, I want to remind you, if you're a man in ministry leadership, I am having the next

01:11:05

IronSharpensIronRadio pastor's luncheon, absolutely free of charge, at Church of the

01:11:11

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. Not only will you be fed physically, enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with men in the ministry, you're going to hear an absolutely wonderful message,

01:11:24

I'm sure, from my dear friend Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author, and also

01:11:31

Pastor David T. King of Christ Church in Katy, Texas.

01:11:38

And not only are they going to be speaking at my luncheon, but they are also conducting a three -day

01:11:45

Bible conference on the three days following the luncheon in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, at the

01:11:51

Grace Bible Fellowship Church. But if you want to register for either of those events, or both of those events, the first event, the luncheon, is for men in ministry leadership only.

01:12:02

The second, the three -day Bible conference, is open to everyone, men, women, and children. Just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:12:10

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put luncheon and put conference or both in the subject line.

01:12:19

And also, don't forget about the conference that we are discussing during this interview,

01:12:26

Examining the New Birth, which is the First Love Ministries' first annual Bible conference in Milton, Florida, being held at the church where my guest

01:12:35

Austin Huggins serves on the pastoral team. That's March 3rd through the 5th.

01:12:40

And if you want more details on that, where you can register for free, go to firstloveministries .org,

01:12:46

firstloveministries .org. Last but not least, folks, the

01:12:54

G3 Conference, which is coming up in September, that you have been hearing advertised every single day, with ads voiced by my dear friend

01:13:05

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. I'm urging you all to go to this mind -blowing, wonderful, beneficial conference.

01:13:18

I have never been to a G3 Conference where I didn't leave there absolutely and thoroughly and delightfully blessed.

01:13:26

I have had an exhibitor's booth there that I have manned every year. I think this is the 7th or 8th, perhaps,

01:13:34

G3 Conference I've attended in Atlanta, Georgia. And so I am hoping that many of you will join me at this conference.

01:13:45

And guess what? As the ads say, you're going to get 30 % off the registration fee if you use the promo code

01:13:53

G3ISIR. Now, there's been a contest going on with all of the media outlets, including

01:14:02

Iron Trip and Zion Radio, that have been promoting this. I was very disappointed that although we beat

01:14:09

Sermon Audio in the number of registrations we got, there were at least five other media outlets that beat us in regard to the number of registrations.

01:14:21

So far, of which I'm aware, we only have 27 people who've registered for the G3 Conference through Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:14:27

So please, I'm urging you to register at g3men .org,

01:14:33

g3men .org. And they have a huge lineup of speakers.

01:14:40

And as I said, you are going to be thoroughly blessed at this event.

01:14:45

They expect 7 ,000 people, again, in Atlanta, Georgia. And this is going to help further ensure that G3 Ministries keeps renewing their advertising every year for this event.

01:15:01

So I hope that I don't hear bad news next year that they're not going to advertise because they have found out that we didn't get them enough registrations.

01:15:09

So please, go to g3men .org, g3men .org, and register for this conference, which is being held this

01:15:18

September. And the lineup is huge, including Dr. James R. White and Volney Baucom and Paul Washer and many others.

01:15:26

So I hope to see you there in September at the G3 Conference. Now, if you want to join us on the air with a question for Austin Huggins and Eddie Delcor about examining the new birth, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:15:40

chrisarnson at gmail .com. And Austin Huggins, if you could pick up where Eddie left off, we were answering a question by Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who disagrees with at least a handful of Reformed folks.

01:15:57

He said that in his experience it's not the majority, but there are some Reformed folks who totally discount the genuineness of somebody's salvation if they believe in baptismal regeneration, even if everything else they believe is correct.

01:16:12

And I was wondering where you stand on that as well. Yeah, I'm in agreement, clearly, with what

01:16:21

Dr. Delcor's perspective is there. Like he, I'm not particularly a devoted student of Martin Luther in terms of all of his writings.

01:16:32

There is a, I guess if you want to call it an analogy of Luther's faith, you know,

01:16:37

Sola Fide really was the cry of his ministry. It's really why he had such issues when misunderstanding the book of James and the statements there regarding works and his fury against what he thought was a statement worthy of,

01:16:54

I wish I could throw Jimmy in the stove at one point in the side note columns when he was wrestling with that.

01:17:00

I think the soul of a man is a deep well, according to scripture, in terms of where he might be confused in wrongly identifying definitions to words.

01:17:14

And while I cannot broad brush the broad spectrum, I can definitively say, based on the scriptures, if a man or a woman is placing their trust, their salvific trust upon a work they are doing, however they define that, and they are not trusting in Christ by faith alone, in Christ alone, then at the core, in the essence of what is salvation, they have stepped outside and are guilty of what

01:17:52

Paul warns in the opening chapter in the book of Galatians, having been turned aside to works, trusting in works, faith in works, faith in something that you do, and whether that is an act of baptism, or trusting in your decision, or some other thing, we can put a clear line there.

01:18:10

I don't know if, Dalkor, you want to accentuate or liberate or whatever you'd like to do. No, I think we've said enough on that topic.

01:18:19

And again, there is a difference between rejecting sola fide and being confused with it.

01:18:27

And so, you know, even within patristic literature, sometimes, you know, there were men like us, you know, and some of them were very smart, some of them were not so smart.

01:18:38

And you mentioned James and Luther, and of course, one of the things that are misunderstood with Luther, and not to belabor this point, on the book of James, it's not that he saw it as non -canonical, he saw it as non -apostolic.

01:18:54

But then later, he talked about, he actually gave some praises to James and included it in his

01:19:00

German Bible. So like I said, when you're evaluating church history, here's the bottom line, tristics in church history is never a valid hermeneutic to interpret the

01:19:12

Bible. Amen. Yeah, we just use those things as we use and make use of and benefit from any teacher where they are correctly exegeting the scriptures, but we don't hold them with any higher authority, or even on an equal authority to the scriptures themselves.

01:19:36

And in fact, that's why even Reformed people who share our convictions have to be very careful not to be guilty of hero worship, where they believe in something just because somebody from history is their favorite teacher.

01:19:53

And it could even be a modern -day teacher and preacher. And please, my dear

01:20:01

Presbyterian friends, do not be insulted by this, but I have met quite a number of people, more than I care to admit, who changed their view from credo -baptism, the understanding that baptism is for repentant believers alone and not infants, they changed their view to accept infant baptism, and they've actually told me, now

01:20:31

I'm not saying this is the majority of people, don't misunderstand me, but on a number of occasions in my own experience, people have told me that the reason that they switched to infant baptism was how could

01:20:44

Calvin be wrong, how could George Whitfield be wrong, how could

01:20:50

John Owen be wrong, and how could Jonathan Edwards be wrong, and on and on and on, and they weren't using the

01:20:58

Bible to defend their change of heart on the issue. So I'm just saying that even we who are

01:21:04

Calvinists have to be very careful about hero worship. I have a dear friend in Northern California, Dr.

01:21:12

William Downing. He's a Baptist reformer. What's that?

01:21:18

I just said yes. He's been on the program. In fact, I want to get him back on. He works with us.

01:21:24

He's part of our organization. He's retired as pastor, but what a phenomenal exegete, and he's written just a vast amount of books on hermeneutics.

01:21:34

And a humble man as well. Very humble, very funny too. If you know him, he's just a funny guy.

01:21:39

I did several conferences with him, and I know his son, but it's funny because one of his favorite, he's

01:21:46

Baptist. Don't call him reformed, though. He'll get offended. He'll say, we were before the Reformation. He's the

01:21:53

Baptist. But one of his favorite commentaries or systematic theologies is

01:22:01

Robert Raymond. It's one of his favorites. Of course, he disagrees on patal baptism, but that's one of his favorite systematic theologies, and his systematic theology is fantastic, but it's really funny.

01:22:17

I was talking to Dr. Downey about that issue, about that systematic theology and Robert Raymond.

01:22:23

I like what Spurgeon said. He said, you know, we can't let the water divide the brethren.

01:22:32

But yeah, that's right. I was telling Austin some of these issues.

01:22:38

The only thing that we're going to teach on the conference, baptism will come up in refuting the idea that you must do the work of baptism in order to be justified.

01:22:50

We call it baptismal regeneration. I also call it baptismal justification. These views are held by Church of Christ, Roman Catholicism, and other groups, and I think it should be pointed out, number one, the importance of baptism, biblically it is important to show, and it was a sign.

01:23:10

It was a sign of the seal, covenant of grace, and there's all the unification you have with, actually, which is the primary meaning, unification or identification you have with the person in which you're being baptized.

01:23:25

It was a unification ceremony. But we're going to point out that although it's very important, just like the two sacraments in Scripture in the

01:23:34

New Testament, as with the Lord's Supper, but it's not a means or a cause of justification.

01:23:42

So on my topic we'll go through that, and also we'll go through decisional regeneration, and Austin promised that I wouldn't get kicked out if I talk about that, and I will mention the sinner's prayer.

01:23:56

Why on earth would you be kicked out of a Reformed conference for speaking against decisional regeneration?

01:24:03

Because not everyone's Reformed. It's a vast amount of people that are coming, that's why. Oh, okay, you're talking about the audience.

01:24:09

That's why it's going to be so exciting. In the audience. It really is. Paul preached a number of times, and he got carried out by a few mobs, and they were a mixed multitude.

01:24:21

We have the opportunity, as I was saying, at a different part in the program, we have a real opportunity to draw on people's blackboards, perhaps either for the first time or within a clearly biblically expounded way, articulate doctrines that they've never heard before.

01:24:40

There are going to be quite a number of Reformed brethren who are dyed in the wool, and they know the Scriptures, they understand biblical justification, and for them this is really going to serve as a powerful reorientation to consider the miracle of the new birth in the positive context of what it is, what has the

01:25:00

Lord done in us, how do we be good stewards of the manifold grace of God. And in the other sense, you're sounding a clear note.

01:25:07

You're raising the trumpet of God's gospel of grace in such a way where you see the miracle of it in real time declared in the

01:25:16

Scriptures. And for a lot of people, this is going to open up a lot of discussion points that hitherto they have not been introduced to.

01:25:24

So you have, you know, Paul Washer opened up his ten indictments with this statement one time.

01:25:30

I thought it was great. He said, I know we have Calvinists here, we have

01:25:35

Arminians, and all sorts of strange animals in between. And, you know, in the wide array of what you find down here in the

01:25:43

South, I can't think of a more fitting banner over which those who are in attendance will probably be.

01:25:51

As all these things are addressed in the positive, our goal is to be, rather than dive off into every possible wrong minutia or wrong expression of those doctrines, we want to positively affirm from the

01:26:06

Scriptures definitively what is the new birth in all of its glory. There will be two

01:26:11

Q &A panels for those who are coming. At the end of Saturday, there will be, after the final session, an hour

01:26:19

Q &A. All the speakers will be there. We'll be taking questions throughout. So if you're coming to the conference, you'll certainly be given an opportunity to ask questions, whether it's something you heard in the conference itself, whether it's something you've heard myself or Dr.

01:26:35

Dalkor here talk about, and you want to drill in deeper. For those who are coming in from out of town, and they need a church to be at for that Lord's Day, there will be another

01:26:46

Q &A panel after the Lord's Day service as well for any remaining questions. So there will be plenty of opportunities, besides the breakout sessions, to actually talk and go in further detail on a number of these issues.

01:26:59

And that website, again, is firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org, to find out more of the details about the conference and also to register for free.

01:27:08

And you were just about to say something, Eddie? Yeah, I was going to ask, Austin, how many speakers in total will be there?

01:27:15

Yeah, thanks, brother. Two, four, six, eight. I scrolled down real quick. We have eight speakers in total.

01:27:21

Beside you and me, we have Dr. Paul Nelson. We have Dr. Stan Morrell, Pastor Stephen Ringel, my co -elder.

01:27:28

We have Dr. Johnny White, Brother Tom Smith, and Pastor Joe Jackowitz. And Joe Jackowitz is going to speak

01:27:34

Sunday morning at the church. Yeah, he'll be addressing the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit and the marks of the new birth that Sunday morning.

01:27:42

Amen. Oh, great, great. That's great news. We have a question from a mutual friend of all of ours,

01:27:51

Timothy Oliver. I usually don't give a full name of the listener, but Timothy Oliver of JesusIsCreator .org,

01:28:00

Christian Soldier Ministries. He says, Dr.

01:28:05

William Downing, and for those of you who tuned in late, Eddie Delcor was just mentioning this great man of God.

01:28:13

Dr. William Downing disagreed with Robert Raymond on the end of Romans 7.

01:28:19

Please have Eddie explain in further detail. Yeah, actually, if you read

01:28:28

Romans 7, I think 14 through 24, when Paul just goes into the words he used, what

01:28:36

I want to do, I can't do because of sin. It could be a tongue twister. And there's a debate amongst performed people whether he is talking about a saved person or a lost person.

01:28:47

One note before I address that, when I was on this athletic ministry, a good friend of mine who Austin used to, they came to Austin's and he assisted him,

01:28:56

Mike Hagan, he had dyslexia. And he was one of the leaders of the team I was on. And when we would,

01:29:02

Sunday morning, we're all suit and tie and we would give messages, he would give a message and he had some message on that.

01:29:08

And since it was hard for him to read it, no matter what church we're at, he would say,

01:29:14

Eddie, can you come up and I want you to read these passages. But yeah, it could be a tongue twister.

01:29:20

Yeah, the two views are, is Paul talking about, the two basic views, because there's another view, but the two basic views is

01:29:26

Paul talking about his pre -conversion or is Paul talking about post -conversion and the struggle he has as a

01:29:33

Christian. And you have great guys on both sides. You really do. The majority that I know of are saying that Paul is speaking about himself present tense.

01:29:45

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of folks who would hold to that. But also you have

01:29:52

Martin Lloyd -Jones, you have Mou, you have a whole lot who do not hold to that position.

01:29:59

But it is somewhat a reformed tradition. If you look at the reformers, they look at Paul's present life.

01:30:04

But you have two views. Yeah, Dr. Downing held to the, probably a majority view that Paul's speaking about his life as a

01:30:14

Christian. I mean, I want it to be that view because it makes sense. But there's problems on both views.

01:30:22

In fact, anyone who says it's just cut and dry and it's simple dimple, I would suggest for them really to look at the linguistics, not only the words, but the context.

01:30:31

For instance, Paul talks about that he's in bondage to sin.

01:30:38

Now, he just used that phrase. And when he does use that phrase, he's talking about pre -converted.

01:30:44

So that's one of the problematic words or phrases that Paul uses. And there's other things, but yet Paul uses present tense.

01:30:51

Tense is in the verbs. As Daniel Wallace said, here's how difficult it is to actually exegete, to come to some kind of, which you can.

01:31:02

I think it's impossible to come to a categorical decision. That's why you have both views by a whole lot of good guys.

01:31:10

Daniel Wallace said, he's one of the standards on Greek grammar. Of course, his area is textual criticism.

01:31:16

But he wrote several books on Greek grammar, which are standards in seminaries. And he said this about those passages.

01:31:22

He said, if there's a set of passages in the Bible that bother me most, it's these.

01:31:29

Because both sides, it's problematic. And there's, he even posits another view that Paul's talking about man in general.

01:31:37

But it's problematic on both sides. And I guess we won't know categorically, right, until, hopefully,

01:31:45

Lord wills, until we're in glory. In fact, I think that Douglas Moo was involved in a friendly collegiate debate at a

01:31:56

John Bunyan conference I attended years ago in Pennsylvania, New Ringgold, Pennsylvania, on this issue.

01:32:02

Because there were men on the speaking roster who had the different views.

01:32:08

So there was some disagreement. And I remember finding it quite fascinating. We have

01:32:16

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. And Susan Margaret asked, don't you think that whether or not we can view someone as a brother and sister in Christ and whether or not their claimed experience of the new birth is genuine is also something very important if God does bring revival in a particular region at a particular time, to whether or not, to know whether or not this revival is a true or false one.

01:32:53

In other words, the fruits of the revival. Yeah, is the question, just so I understand, is it important to discern the fruit of a revival, whether it's legitimate or not?

01:33:04

Yeah, I believe what she is asking is since we are talking about examining the new birth, obviously, we're talking about how do we discern whether we ourselves are truly born again or the others around us are, and none of us obviously have the mind of God to determine someone that we know infallibly whether they are

01:33:31

Christian or not, but there are certain things that would be litmus tests.

01:33:38

And so if there is a revival or something that is identified by many people as a revival, let's say in Milton, Florida, where you are, and when you're looking at what is actually happening, whether or not these people are manifesting genuine fruits of the new birth is very important as to whether or not you would consider it a revival at all or a counterfeit experience these people are having.

01:34:06

Well, of course, and just for context, we're one county over from Pensacola where the famous or perhaps infamous

01:34:14

Brownsville Revival took place several decades ago. Whether or not we discern truth, yes, that is, of course, very important.

01:34:26

We are called to test the spirits, to test the message, to test fruit. No, the question is do we know infallibly these things?

01:34:37

Of course not. There is a sense in which we are left at times to not judge before the time, but when fruit is clear, like our master said, you will know a tree by its fruit.

01:34:50

Firstly, we look at our own lives, and do we bring forth fruit meat for repentance?

01:34:56

Is there a fear of God? Is there a hunger for his word? Is there conformity to the

01:35:01

Lord Jesus Christ? Yes, even a righteous man stumbles seven times a day, but Paul says,

01:35:07

I have not yet apprehended that which I've been apprehended for, but forgetting that which is behind,

01:35:13

I press on towards the high mark and the high call of God in Christ Jesus. And in terms of a larger setting,

01:35:21

I know this is a big topic, especially right now with what's going on out there, and I believe it's

01:35:28

Kentucky, and I don't want to segue too hard here, but if a gathering of this kind is not attended by the scriptures, sound teaching, if the fruit of it is not a deepening of the fear of God, if the fruit of it is not a deepening of the knowledge of Christ in the gospel, if man is not becoming more aware of the exceeding sinfulness of his sin, if there's not a sense of holiness, for instance, when the prophet

01:36:02

Isaiah saw the Lord high and lifted up, I mean, that's as in the presence of the

01:36:07

Spirit of the Lord as I think you can be, he was immediately struck with his own simpleness.

01:36:13

He says, Woe is me, for I am undone, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips.

01:36:20

One of the first fruits of true revival are the fruits of repentance. And without the fear of the

01:36:27

Lord, without a deepening of the knowledge of Christ, of his word, of the scriptures, of some degree of purity that testifies to the spirit of truth within it.

01:36:40

I mean, it's amazing what the flesh can do, what emotions can do, the high people can experience, even at perfectly secular conferences and concert events, people in tears and shaking.

01:36:54

The externals in and of themselves are not what we're looking for. We're looking for these spiritual markers, and scripture does give us them,

01:37:02

I believe. I don't know if you have anything to add, Brother Delcor. Well, you said it all.

01:37:08

Unfortunately, tradition or emotion can motivate bad doctrine. Because if you're motivated and emotionally high, you're just going to...

01:37:18

I've always made that point. People like the cruise ship director pastor, the guy in the revival who really is a carnival barker.

01:37:28

But they like that, the good -looking guy in the skinny jeans and all that. Which I don't mind, but it seems to always be attached to really bad doctrine.

01:37:38

And we know that, and we're going to deal with this at our conference, dealing with defective altercals and how that emerged, and the difference between some of the revivals of Jonathan Edwards and Whitefield and so on and so forth, the differences in doctrine and the emotionalism on the other side promulgated by Charles Finney and just promulgating the idea that Romans 10 .9

01:38:06

is some kind of sinner's prayer and all these things. And it's used today.

01:38:11

These passages are used today. Revelation 3 .20, I stand at the door and knock, is normally used at evangelical revivals, even though it's not an evangelical passage.

01:38:22

It's a promise to us that Jesus is always knocking on our door. He wants more of us. Same with Matthew 7 through 8.

01:38:28

This is to Christians. Revelation 3 .20 is to Christians, the Church of Laodicea.

01:38:34

But they're always misused, as much as Jeremiah 20 .09 .11. We're going to deal with all that.

01:38:40

And you know, Austan, I'm just excited because of this conference. Each one of us has these, even though the whole topic centers on the new birth and regeneration, what that is and what it's not, all of us have different topics, and it's a wide variety of what the listener is going to hear.

01:39:01

I think it's going to be super beneficial. And I'm excited about being part of it.

01:39:07

I'm excited about the subject matter. I'm excited about hearing Paul Nelson and Stan Merle and Joe.

01:39:13

Absolutely. It's going to be great. I'm really looking forward to it, brother. We've been working together for years now, and the fellowship is sweet, and I love it.

01:39:21

And I couldn't help, as you were bringing up Whitefield and Wesley, you know, Chris, if your listeners are not familiar with the

01:39:28

Life and Times of George Whitefield by Arnold Dallimore, I would highly commend that.

01:39:35

It is a big read. It's large, two volumes. I was informed by a local Reform Brother that there is a slimmed -down version of it also available.

01:39:45

But in there, it details a lot of what took place in that 17th century revival.

01:39:51

And you know, it was interesting. Between Whitefield and Wesley and the doctrinal issues that eventually emerged and kind of dominated some of their relationship, you saw within Wesley's side, not that the spirit was not moving, not that there was not true regeneration.

01:40:09

Even Whitefield did testify to that. But Wesley ran into some serious issues when the enemy began to make these emotional aspects of his work a larger priority than it ought to have been.

01:40:25

And whether it was the enemy counterfeiting it or the flesh counterfeiting it, they ran into a number of very serious issues.

01:40:32

And inevitably, Whitefield, rightfully so, had to write a serious letter regarding the doctrine.

01:40:38

Yes, and I would urge everybody listening to go to cvbbs .com, who sponsor this show,

01:40:44

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, and you could order the biography of George Whitefield by Dallimore there.

01:40:52

And you could also get a book that definitely involves exactly what we are discussing right now, an absolutely superb book by Ian H.

01:41:03

Murray, Revival and Revivalism, published by Banner of Truth.

01:41:08

It really is, in the majority, a contrast between true and false revival and true and false evangelists of revival.

01:41:22

Asahel Nettleton being a truly born -again believer with sound doctrine, and Charles Finney being a very suspect individual with a false gospel and false revivals, which

01:41:35

Ian describes as revivalism. And this is like nearly 500 pages.

01:41:42

You've got to get a hold of it if you don't have it already. And that's a Banner of Truth book, and go to cvbbs .com.

01:41:49

They carried it there. We're going to our final break. If you have a question, please send it in now, because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:41:57

chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

01:42:05

Don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

01:42:23

I'm very excited to announce that my long -time friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

01:42:32

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

01:42:45

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

01:42:57

And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

01:43:05

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code

01:43:11

G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 % discount.

01:43:19

Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

01:43:24

G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God. Make sure you stop by the

01:43:29

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

01:43:35

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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I'm Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureComm Group, and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Program.

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The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, closed -circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

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We custom -install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off -site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices.

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From simple code -activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the

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SecureComm Group has it. We also provide the latest in intercom and IP telephone systems.

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In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network.

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Whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

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I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates.

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For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

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That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit

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SecureCommGroup .com. That's SecureCommGroup .com. This is

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Brian McLaughlin of the SecureComm Group, joining Chris Armisen's family of advertisers to keep

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Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Puritan Reformed is a

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Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We're devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

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Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

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We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

01:46:32

We sing the psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

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Christ. This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

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Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

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Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com.

01:47:04

The Prince of Preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, once said, Growing a beard is a habit most natural, scriptural, manly, and beneficial.

01:47:12

Grace and peace to all the Iron Sharpens Iron listeners. This is Tony with TheStandardBeardCare .com.

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That's right. TheStandardBeardCare .com is a Christ -exalting, better -known, and simple name in beard care.

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So if you have a beard, know a guy with a beard, or ladies if you're married to a man with a beard, head over to TheStandardBeardCare .com.

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Check out the vast array of all -natural, hand -crafted products to make that beard scriptural, manly, and beneficial.

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And when you do so, you will help to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. When you use the promo code IRON at checkout, you will receive free shipping to anywhere in the lower 48, and 10 % of your donations will go back to Chris Arntzen and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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So head over to TheStandardBeardCare .com where the standard is the standard.

01:48:10

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

01:48:20

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the

01:48:28

Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr.

01:48:35

Joseph Moorcraft. It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

01:48:48

Dr. Moorcraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

01:48:59

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com westminstercommentary .com

01:49:06

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com

01:49:15

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com heritagepresbyterianchurch .com Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.

01:49:23

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you. Music Music Music If you love iron sharpens iron radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers

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One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnton is doing is

01:49:55

Daniel P. Patafuoco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist

01:50:00

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society Their mission?

01:50:07

To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of Biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr.

01:50:22

Buttafuoco, demonstrating the reliability of Scripture. To advance the cause of the

01:50:28

Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

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King James Bible. This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.

01:50:50

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

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Tower of Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for His claims to the throne of the universe.

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Originals of this work are in museums, and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before.

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You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

01:51:20

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

01:51:28

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. I'm Dr.

01:51:42

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

01:51:52

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

01:52:00

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:52:18

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

01:52:25

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

01:52:34

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

01:52:40

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:52:49

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:53:16

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

01:53:23

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially.

01:53:31

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers, which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

01:53:44

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

01:53:51

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

01:54:04

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

01:54:14

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

01:54:22

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

01:54:27

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

01:54:35

Welcome back. I've just been informed that there is another reason why you should try your best to attend

01:54:44

First Love Ministries' first annual Bible conference in Milton, Florida, March 3rd through the 5th, is that Richard Homeris and Bobby Hamlin, who are on staff at First Love Radio, who is live streaming this program as we speak, they are going to be in attendance at the conference talking about the outreach of First Love Radio, and they'll be conducting on -site interviews there as well.

01:55:11

So just make sure you go to register for free at firstloveministries .org,

01:55:17

firstloveministries .org. Now I'll have each of you men just basically summarize in no more than a minute and a half what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today in regard to the topic and the conference.

01:55:34

We'll start with Eddie Delcor, I hope he's not eating cookies, and then we'll go to Austin Huggins.

01:55:41

They were healthy. I think this conference, as with a lot of conferences that deal with essential doctrine,

01:55:52

I think it's going to be very beneficial for those who want to go further in their study, further in their knowledge of who

01:55:58

God is in terms of how he relates to his people, and how he relates to the unregenerate as well.

01:56:08

I think it will enormously increase exegetical skill, because we need people to go out around the world, but we need the right people with the right message to evangelize.

01:56:22

One of the themes in this conference, first of course we're all on the same page on this, one of the main themes in this evangelistic conference is that we're saved by God alone.

01:56:32

It is God alone who regenerates. It is God alone who justifies. It is God alone who glorifies, and thank

01:56:39

God that he uses us as means to evangelize, to proclaim the cross work of Christ.

01:56:46

So this revival will also disambiguate a lot of the false notions and bad doctrines that people have, and the confusion between justification and regeneration and all these things.

01:57:00

So I'm looking forward to it. I personally know most of the speakers. I'm looking forward for myself to hear, and I will say as a teacher, as a speaker, that we're always, and I can speak for Austin and the others, it's always a benefit to us when we teach, when we preach.

01:57:16

It's always a benefit to us. We receive the benefit over and over and over every time we teach.

01:57:23

The most encouraging thing for me is to watch people write notes down. It's just awesome. So I'm looking forward to it.

01:57:29

I'm looking forward to meeting everyone. I'm looking forward to getting together with a lot of friends I haven't seen for a while, and I'm mainly looking forward to communicate the

01:57:38

Word of God, communicate the Word of God in these and this particular subject matter.

01:57:44

And, Austin, you've got about a minute. Yeah, if I could just leave one statement clearly ringing in the ears of your listeners.

01:57:53

You must be born again. That statement comes to those of Muslim background, of atheistic background, of Catholic background, or even

01:58:02

Baptist church attendance 50 years background. Your history, all that you are, all your works, none of these things will avail at the judgment.

01:58:11

You must be born again. If you are not born again, you will not see the kingdom of heaven.

01:58:17

If you're not born again, you will not enter. Please join us March 3rd through 5th as the various pastors and teachers at First Love Ministries press into the great mystery of this regeneration with fresh zeal so that we can be strengthened in these truths.

01:58:30

Please remember the conference is free. Conference registration is free. There are free books, free literature, free materials.

01:58:37

Saturday and Sunday, the lunches will be included. We look forward to those who will attend, and we look forward to being able to not only answer questions, but to strengthen the unity and the fellowship of the churches in the sound doctrine and in the gospel of the

01:58:52

Lord Jesus Christ. And register at firstloveministries .org, firstloveministries .org. I want to thank my guests.

01:58:58

I want to thank everybody who listened. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

01:59:05

Savior than you are a sinner. Have a very blessed, safe, happy, joyful, and healthy weekend in Christ honoring