Episode 124: The Doctrines of Grace in Danville, KY

Welcome to the Ruled Church Podcast. This is my beloved son, with whom

I am well pleased. He is honored, and I get the glory. And by the way, it's even better, because you see that building in Perryville, Arkansas?

You see that one in Pechote, Mexico? Do you see that one in Tuxla, Guterres down there in Chiapas? That building has my son's name on it.

The church is not a democracy, it's a monarchy. Christ is king. You can't be

Christian without a local church. You can't do anything better than to bend your knee and bow your heart, turn from your sin and repentance, believe on the

Lord Jesus Christ, and join up with a good Bible -believing church, and spend your life serving

Jesus in a local, visible congregation. How have we made it to July 2025 already?

2025 is already halfway over. We're already past Independence Day.

The summer is rolling along. It won't be long. We'll be talking about football and fall weather, and for some of you, maybe the pumpkin spice latte.

At Providence Baptist Church, one thing, one evangelistic endeavor we do every year that we look forward to is a silly name

I know, Goat Fest. So that's in October, just around the corner. So it's hard to fathom that 2025 is just rolling along.

But what we want to do today on the podcast is we want to get back to the interview that I had with Joseph Allen, faithful brother, faithful pastor at a church plant in Danville, Kentucky, just outside Danville, Kentucky, Grace Community Baptist Church.

And in this portion of our episode, we talk about his journey into the doctrines of grace. We'll get into some of mine as well, and how that has affected us and how that affects the church and the importance of those things.

So I hope you enjoy this time that we got to talk with Joseph. Hope it's edified you, and maybe you learned something, encouraged by it.

And without further ado, let's get into the episode. You moved from a man -centered sort of soteriology,

I've got to produce results, to a biblical soteriology, the doctrines of grace.

Was that costly for you in terms of relationships? Yeah, in its own ways.

I pastored an IFB church before I went to Lee Creek, and it was at that IFB church that I came to the doctrines of grace.

I had a lot of shifting there, just in personal study. I was there, I think that was 2020, and everybody's kind of locked in their rooms for a while.

You just got extra reading time, extra study. And so I came to understand the doctrines of grace, which before that I was aggressively opposed to the doctrines of grace.

And so that's the last thing that I ever thought I'd come to. But my conviction throughout my whole ministry has been that Scripture is right, no matter what.

And when I realized that Scripture was teaching something that I was intentionally trying to avoid or argue around, it humbled me.

But coming to the doctrines of grace, coming out of some of the kind of legalistic mindsets towards various things, translations or how you dress or whatever,

I believe you've got to be modest, but there were some things that were straight up legalistic that were impressed.

And I'm trying to think of what else, but it was during that time I came to the doctrines of grace, kind of came out of that mindset.

And I kind of just started there, too. My theology shifted. I'm like, what do

I do? So that's when I learned about exposition of preaching. I started preaching through books of the Bible.

And the doctrines of grace are all through the books of the Bible. And most people, they don't even realize they're amen to the doctrines of grace, as long as you don't use terms like Calvinism or something of that nature, which

I'm not ashamed of the term Calvinist. When you tell me you're a Calvinist, I know a lot about you just by that word.

But a lot of people, they shy away from those doctrines because of hot -button terms they've heard because they've been trained that, oh, this is evil, this is wrong.

That's kind of how it was in the IFB church I was in. But even still, I knew that that church wasn't going to be a place where I could be long -term and really be doctrinally free.

It's got really deep roots in the other side of the IFB fundamental framework.

And so we prayed about where the Lord might lead us, that we'd have that freedom, and that's where He led us to Lee Creek. And we thought we'd be at Lee Creek forever, but Providence changed that for us.

But coming out of the IFB, you learn a lot. I think, yeah,

I think if you hold to the doctrines of grace, you need to be up front when you come into a church.

But if you're at a church and then you're like, you came in as one way, and then your theology shifted, that can be challenging.

And sometimes I'm all about Reformation in the churches. But there really does come a time sometimes where you're like, okay, this is too much.

This is just going to blow up. And so it's better for me to just move on. Okay, question is, so I'll give you my story just shortly.

But when I was, this was 2008 for me.

It was kind of a crazy story. But I was like, my wife and I, we were going to go to,

I was going to go to seminary. And we picked Southwestern because from central Arkansas to Fort Worth is like five and a half hours,

I mean, or six hours. I mean, it's nothing. It's not bad at all. Well, I found out that there's this other seminary not that much further, just in the other direction called the

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. And I was like, well, so I put some resumes out to some churches around there.

But we wanted to go to Fort Worth. We're trying to figure out how to go to Fort Worth. Well, a church, Plum Creek Baptist Church in Taylorsville, Kentucky, called us.

They called me as a youth pastor. And so I was like, well, I guess I'll go to this seminary. I had no idea.

People were like, you picked that seminary because of Calvin. No, I didn't. I had no idea. So I went. So we started or we started the process of going.

Well, then I found out, you know, people's like, well, you know, they're Calvinist and all that. I was like, those guys are dumb, you know, because that's where I stood.

So I began to study to kind of disprove Calvinism. And then when

I got there, you know, if anybody says like, what book did you read that changed your mind?

Well, for me, it was the Bible because I was a Bible reader, but I had not read through the entire

Bible. And I was sitting in a class with Dr. Don Whitney on spiritual disciplines. And he told us,

I'm going to paraphrase something along the lines of you guys are responsible to feed your people.

Jesus says that man should not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. So how are you going to do that if you haven't read every word that comes out of the mouth of God?

And that convicted me. And I was like, I need to read through the whole Bible. I'm going to be in ministry.

So I started reading through the whole Bible and I have old journals and stuff where it's like, I would read one passage of like, well, there's free will.

I read another pastor like, no, this is sovereignty of God. And it was like, you just keep reading. You're like,

OK, the sovereignty of God is not in just in Romans nine or Ephesians one.

It's everywhere. So that's kind of that was kind of my, you know, my journey into embracing the doctrines of grace.

And then like you. Early on, that move from soteriology on to other things, you know, and I'm disappointed with some of the stances and things that nine marks took in 2020 and beyond.

But I can say that nine mark certainly was an influence in my life, too.

Early on there with under with appreciate and understand church. Anyway, I hopefully

I wasn't too long. Well, because I'm I'm not having this episode just for me to talk.

But what so what was it? You're in the IFB church. You know, you're like you said, 2020, you've got some downtime.

What was there anything? Was there like a sermon? Was there like a quote? Was there a challenge?

What was it that got you going in that direction of I need to study this out about the doctrines of grace?

So, you know, the doctrines such as, you know, election, that sort of thing.

It's always kind of been in the back of my head, like even though when I was arguing against it, you know, I knew there was a multitude of passages that talked about it.

You got to deal with it somehow. You have to deal with it. You can't not believe in election. You have to believe something about it.

It's there. And so I don't know. I always kind of in the back of my conscience knew

I was restraining, resisting that, wasn't willing to admit it. And really it boiled down to, you know, me, me having some some contacts who were friends who were

Calvinist. They're not pushy about it. We would have discussions and that, you know, I was always on the opposite side.

And that was, you know, no big deal. We're friends. But we just kind of talked about it some more. And I thought, you know what?

I'm just going to start over and look at Scripture and just let Scripture be true. I'm a liar.

Right. Let God be true. Every man a liar. Little by little, man, just reading through the text of Scripture.

Scripture is my convincement because Scripture is my authority. You know, I could read a thousand books on Calvinism. There's going to be a lot of good content and helpful things there that will help you understand certain aspects of the doctrines.

But the bottom line is Scripture is the authority. So Scripture ripped my heart of these issues.

And I'm telling you, man, I had a I had a breakdown of weeping and repentance for my willful rejection of what was plainly in front of me simply because my tradition had taught me the opposite.

You know, taught me that Calvinism was evil and it was to be avoided. And basically there's aspects of Calvinism that I didn't wrap my mind around.

But, you know, the more I study, the more I realize that, you know, God's infinite or finite.

We're not going to wrap our mind around everything. You know, there are some paradises. And so.

Really, it was coming to coming to wrestle with the text of Scripture and submitting to the

Scripture that led me to better and better understand, but also fully embrace the doctrines of grace.

So what? So so you I don't know if you have any friends like this. I have some acquaintance, acquaintance, acquaintances.

Why can I not say that word that that I know it's gone this route? But like you have some guys that it's like all of a sudden they embrace the doctrines of grace.

Yeah. Logically. And it just it's like they're like, I've been lied to my whole life.

And they end up just pressing on into embracing pedo baptism.

So what what what? I mean, it may be a silly question for you, but like what kept what kept you from maintaining your

Baptist roots, but also understanding the doctrines of grace and keeping from going on to Presbyterianism or whatever?

Well, I mean, I never really had a had a draw towards pedo baptism. I mean, to me, that's biblically.

Obviously, we're going to be sold. So the scripture or scripture alone is your authority. I mean, to me, that's one of the basic things.

I know other brothers have their arguments for why they would accept, you know, infant baptism or pedo baptism.

But to me, baptism was always a pretty plain, straightforward issue. You know, it's by immersion. It's for believers, regenerate, regenerate people that just never really come up as a, you know, a drawing that way.

Like, oh, am I wrong here? Even though I didn't fully understand their argument, you know, early on,

I understand their argument a little better. I just don't necessarily think scripture teaches what they argue.

But you're right. I have seen some guys do that. They've like just gone straight forward into Presbyterianism.

And I think that's just a little bit too quick in the jumping.

Once they see something was wrong here, it doesn't mean everything they ever knew was wrong. You know, I think we have a rich.

I know you mentioned this earlier and I really appreciated it about a historic Baptist church.

Well, I think we have a rich doctrine of grace. History, reform, and even let me push even further, not just sovereign grace,

Baptist or whatever, but a rich reformed Baptist history in America.

The 1689, which why it's called that, whatever, it just sticks. But it's, you know, was written in 1677.

I think it was actually approved in 1688. But anyway, I leave the readers or the listeners to go check out

Jim Renahan's book on that. But, you know, that came over into the

Philadelphia Confession. The Philadelphia Confession is the exact same, except for two chapters.

One, I'm fine with. The other is kind of strange, laying on the hands. But then also the

Charleston Confession. And so there's a rich history of reformed

Baptist theology in our past, in America.

And so, yeah, I like that you say historic Baptists. And I think the

Presbyterians and the Dutch reform, you know, I think about Joe Beakey. And I think they have, I don't know if I want to say better books.

Maybe I'll say better books. But they certainly have a lot more books. Yes. Because Baptists have historically kind of been a minority, especially reformed

Baptists. You know, right. Right. So I think maybe that's been, you know, I think that maybe that's been part of it.

But but would you do you have any maybe it's a reformed Baptist author or maybe it's not. But do you have any, you know, go to guys like like are you appreciative of Gil?

Do you read Gil or Keech or anybody like that? Yeah. I mean, I've got Gil set up with my logos, you know, every time

I study, I can reference him. I reference, you know, Matthew Henry to some and John Calvin.

But, you know, Gil's good. Keech is good. Multitude of guys out there that are helpful.

Yeah. I like Gil. I like Gil. I think he's kind of underrated, honestly, and underappreciated, probably.

But, yeah. Yeah. Gil's good. So when you embrace the doctrine of grace, what was it like?

What was it like with your family? Like do you have any family conflict, even like with your wife?

Is she on board immediately or what did that look like? So, yeah,

I was a little nervous to tell my wife even. I was a closet Calvinist for a little bit, even in my own home.

She was kind of brought up in the same roots, an IFB type group. And so I was a little nervous about how she'd react.

But, you know, obviously, I can't go on like this forever. I've got to tell her where I stand on this. Right. So, you know,

I had to come down to my office one day and begin to explain it to her. And you just kind of walk her through Romans 8, you know, golden chain of salvation, big picture.

And she just started crying. I'm like, what's wrong? She's like, that's the piece that's been missing for me. Like she knew something was missing in the bigger picture of things with regard to salvation and God's working.

And it just put it all together for her. So she was just instantly like digging into it.

You know, she accepting of it, not that it was a new doctrine. It's been there the whole time.

But it's just you're kind of sheltered from certain aspects of God's sovereignty. And that it unlocks the rest of scripture, the rest of what his redemptive plan is.

You know, it did that for me, did that for her. And even even beyond her, you know, little by little, you know, conversations and Bible studies with mom and my sister, my brother -in -law, they came to understand the doctor's grace.

They saw, you know, the scriptures, not that I was trying to convince them of it. But they started to ask questions and I just gave them biblical answers, gave them the text to read.

And so, you know, I'm thankful for that because it doesn't always go that way. Beyond that,

I've got I have had other family that has not responded well towards my shift towards the doctrines of grace.

So I've experienced both sides of that, that equation. So what does I because I can tell you from my

SBC background, I can tell you how the SBC deals with it. But how does the IFB deal with like, is there is there kind of like a model that for how they deal with like Romans eight, you know, twenty nine thirty or Romans nine?

Like, how would you if would you ever hear that preach and I'd be like from a certain slant or is it just like what's the

I'm going to take the SBC in just a minute. But how does the IFB, what do they deal with that, how they deal with that?

To be honest with you, I never heard those texts ever preached. Yeah, they don't they don't practice as a whole expositional preaching through books.

There's it's very much topic focused. And even in the topic focus element, it's not really on topic.

You choose a text and run all over the place and, you know, their practices, their traditions and, you know, give me a hey man up in here type stuff.

The guy's like, I wear a white shirt because I'm called to preach. That's right. That's right.

So, I mean, the kind of preaching I grew up under, you know, and I'm not saying this to slam them in any way.

They're good brothers that love the Lord. One of them just don't know any different. But a lot of it was topical, preferential type preaching.

And you can get a little bit out of that, but it's not the substance that the same needs and saints need more.

They need the whole counsel of God. And so when it comes to those kind of texts, either it was avoided altogether or there were some kind of a workaround.

You know, they tried to talk or talk right through the text or around the text. If you say if you want to say it that way,

I call it spiritual gymnastics. You know, there are no handstands that avoid the truth. Yeah.

You know, I think some good intentionally. Some don't. I think it's just sure.

Are there tradition? I think it's inevitable. You know, if you're going to be a serious Bible student and seriously love the scriptures and you deal with these, it's going to lead you.

It's inevitable that you love the doctrines of grace. Absolutely. But I think it's similar in SBC.

Like it's got to have a couple of different approaches. One is just to skip it altogether. I don't know if I've ever told you about the time.

This was years ago in our church. But when we were still like, you know, life way stuff.

But we there is a life way Sunday school curriculum on Romans. Yeah. And so naturally, like as a reformed

Baptist pastor, I'm like, well, I want to see what they're going to. How are they going to deal with Romans nine? What are they going to say? So, you know,

I flip there because I want to get to that section. What are they going to say? They skipped it.

They literally did not do a lesson on Romans nine. Right. This is a major publishing company that was for churches that was going through the book of Romans and they just skipped it.

Yeah. And if you told me that I would almost not believe you because it's so bad.

I like there's like you looked at something wrong. You can't be right.

There's no possible way that a serious curriculum would.

Now, I just expected them to deal with, you know, what's national election or something. That was my anticipation to skip it.

Yeah, that that blew my mind. And then and then, of course, you have guys years ago.

I listened to when I listened to it. He was he had already passed, but it was still probably like, oh, 12, 13 years ago.

I listened to Dr. Adrian Rogers on Romans nine, and I'm appreciative of Dr.

Rogers, but he just whiffed. You know, it's just like, yeah, try to deal with it, you know, in a national aspect.

And then and then I don't know if you've ever heard of Layton Flowers, but that's the most recent movement.

And that just leads you to a crazy road of. Yes. You want to talk about gymnastics and convoluted.

Yeah, that is not how that's going down a dark path. You know, I hope and I say that with all due respect to Dr.

Flowers and hope that he'll repent and and not continue down this path of twisting the scriptures.

And this, you know, almost full on Pelagian sometimes, you know, things.

So that's that's kind of how it's how it's dealt with there. But anyway, brother, what what you have any any kind of I've actually look at the clock.

Here we are rolling along and we're going to land the plane. This is going to be two episodes already.

It makes it better for me in the summertime to add here. So this is long, but so any do you have it?

I know we're talking about the scriptures, but you have a book recommendation. Like, I doubt anybody listening to this is just coming to the doctrines of grace.

But if they are wrestling with this, do you have any resources that you would recommend? Anything that was helpful for you?

Yeah, one that was really helpful for me early on after I came to, like, set the doctrines of grace. But, you know,

I want to better articulate some of the things that I have questions about in probably most simple form.

Mere Calvinism by Jim Scott O 'Rourke was was really good. And if there's someone who is just, you know, interested in and want to understand it on a more basic level, that's the book

I would give them. It was very helpful for me. It's not real long. It's not overly overly deep to where somebody new in the faith could not understand it.

His book, Mere Calvinism, was very helpful. That's Jim Scott O 'Rourke. Jim Scott O 'Rourke.

And I would also just add to that, just to reiterate, read the

Bible every day. If you're not in the scriptures, don't try to figure this out.

First and foremost, get in the Bible every day. And then the time extra that you have, you know, do that.

Yeah. So is your church is is your is your church at a position that that that's that's where they are?

Or is it just majority or everybody or just you or what? Where are they at?

I know we kind of mentioned earlier, but. Yeah. So I would say there's some people I'm still getting to know, but I would say the majority is not all.

You know, there's a few new people here that I don't I don't know where they really stand on everything. But the majority, the church started as a doctors of grace group of people that were looking to, you know, see what the

Lord does, you know, meeting together. And, you know, my friend, the former pastor who planted the church, got it going, you know, was instrumental in helping them along those lines.

As far as, you know, the formulating of this this body and developing it into a church plant, we're going to soon.

But the doctors of grace are foundational to what we believe as a as a local church.

Well, that's encouraging, because I know there's some pastors out there that there's so many things they want to deal with, but they still have to fight the battle of soteriology, which can be difficult.

So you mentioned earlier about confessions. Maybe we can close, you know, just with this conversation.

But you guys don't have a confession right now, but you talked about you think they're important.

So do you have any plans or thoughts? You know, obviously, I'm biased. So I'm right. Everybody knows where I'd weigh in.

But I'm just asking you, you know, as a and by the way, let me just say this. I think that, you know,

I have to adopt a 1689 for me to be friendly with you and enjoy you and appreciate you and preach with you and, you know, work with you.

So I'm not trying to twist your arm on that. I'm just saying, what are your plans as a pastor and maybe encouragement or counsel you give to as you as you guys explore and think about establishing your church's statement of faith or confession?

Yeah. So, you know, my preference, obviously, is the 1689. I like the robustness of it.

You know, I believe it is clear on the truth. It represents some scriptures and citing scripture references and doesn't leave a whole lot of stones unturned.

You know, it really sets the foundation for the majority of doctrine that the church should hold to. But as far as plans,

I would love for us to, you know, lean towards a 1689. I'm going to try to teach on doctrine and the importance of it and, you know, having a healthy, robust doctrine.

Whether that's what we start out with, I'm not sure yet. Some have mentioned maybe writing our own, which

I'm not opposed to that. So I'm going to try to, because I'm still kind of navigating the waters early, you know, letting them get a feel of me in a pastoral sense and me of them.

They know me from years ago, which they need to know me in a different light today. Pastorally, but we're going to be talking through that and praying through that in the days to come.

Yeah, I plugged it earlier, but do you have a James Renahan book on Baptist Symbolics Volume 2 where he's on the 1689?

Yeah, yeah, I actually do. I have this copy. I've not got to read all the way through it yet, but.

Yeah, it's a big. It's in my plans. It's a big book. Yeah, I would encourage our listeners, you know, anybody exploring it, or I'll put it this way.

I would encourage anybody to read it because even if you're Presbyterian, even if you're not 1689, like it's a helpful historical work, you know.

But especially someone thinking about teaching it through their church, through that.

And I know the 1689 gets a bad rap for being so big. So some people do. You know, we need to be sure.

But I mean, look, you know where I stand, brother. I'm just saying we live in a day that we don't need less or smaller creeds, you know, big confession.

No, I don't think we should. We should have a problem with that. So anyway, I understand we're going to come on a variety of positions on that.

And the most important thing is pressing on in the kingdom. And so we're appreciative of you, both

Pastor Jacob and myself. In fact, Pastor Jacob, due to you, I believe, is going to be preaching in July at Lee Creek.

Yeah, that's true. That speaks to your heart as a pastor, you know, like helping that church even before you leave to set up some guys.

And if you listen to this episode, pray for Lee Creek Baptist. I assume they're still searching for a pastor.

Yeah, they are. Yeah. So pray for them. And who knows, brother? Just be honest. I don't know who listens to this.

So it's Lee Creek Baptist Church in Van Buren, Arkansas. And if there's like a faithful, qualified brother out there and you listen to this, you want to get a hold of me,

I know how to get a hold of Joseph, and he knows how to get a hold of some people. So you can email me. I've shared my email address before, but it's

QuattroNelson at Gmail. So it's C -U -A -T -R -O -N -E -L -S -O -N at gmail .com. And if you happen to be listening to this and you're like,

I'd be interested to learn more about that church in Van Buren, Arkansas, reach out to me. But anyway, pray for them as they search.

And we're confident that God loves the church and will lead that church to the right man.

Do you guys, is your position a plurality of elders? Is that something you go for? Is that, are you more like the single elder model?

Or is that not even, you're just now getting your feet wet, so it's not even able to be on your radar yet. So my,

I mean, my personal conviction of the scripture is a plurality of elders. I think you see that in every New Testament church, you know, in the scriptures.

Churches that I grew up in, they were very much single pastor led, you know, IFB churches are that way.

So that's just something in time. We'll have to, as we teach through the scriptures, let the

Lord work there and move that direction as His providence allows.

We need to give you, we need to seriously give you like a year or maybe like eight or 10 months and do a check in with you and just check in on me.

Hear how things are going. I personally, if people, I do this podcast because I like to talk with people and I like to talk about things in the church.

So if other people don't care, I still want to check in and we could probably pay you double what we're doing today for that episode.

There you go. No, we love you, brother. We appreciate you. I'm thankful God brought you into my life.

You know, I hope that we continue to maintain a connection. And are you doing any, are you doing any further education work out there?

Like how far are you from covenant out there? How far is that? Maybe two hours, two and a half, maybe.

Not too, not terribly far. A lot closer than you were. Yeah, a lot closer than I was, right. I'm not doing any at the moment, you know, but I do plan to, you know,

I want to further my education. The education I have, I'm thankful for, you know, but it didn't come from a school that is really doxinally where I am.

I would like to get a little bit better education in some other schools and government.

Some, some other school is more doxinally aligned where I am. Sure. And so that's in the plans.

It was just more or less providential, you know, if it's timing's right and finances are right and all that stuff.

So a lot of stuff. Yeah. Well, I think, I don't think you have to go to seminary to be a pastor.

I do think you have to be educated, you know, but that's, you know, anyway. We're a couple of Baptist preachers sitting here trying to end this episode and we're not.

You know, that's, that's probably how our preaching goes too. I mean, is there anything left that you just feel like, oh,

I wanted to say this and I didn't get to say, or any kind of encouragement you want to give to pastors or churches, anything like that before we sign off?

Man, we've, we've covered a lot. I don't really think pressing other than, you know, trust the sovereignty of God and all things.

That's where I've had to learn because there's things that I don't always understand. You know, I don't understand why we were led away from Lee Creek after not having the long ministry there.

I thought we were going to have, but I know that his purpose is a greater mile. Yeah. So trust him in, in the big things and in the little things and every aspect of ministry.

And I want to thank you too for, for just having me on and being a friend to me. I'm glad I was in Arkansas, you know, and cross paths with you and appreciate your friendship and ministry that you and Jacob are doing right there in Perryville, Arkansas.

So y 'all are doing a great work. Well, thank you, brother. And just in the providence of God, I'll just throw this out there.

If there's somebody that's like, wait, Hey, I'm listening to this podcast. I'm in the

Kentucky area. I might like to check out that church. Is there a website or something?

Not a website yet, but there's a Facebook page. Okay. Look at grace community Baptist. If you put grace community, you're going to get

John MacArthur. Be excited, but that's not where we're at. And I guess that's a good, good thing.

We have Baptist on the name, right? That was pretty confusing. Yeah. But grace community Baptist church on Facebook, you can find us there.

We have live stream and stuff, you know, posts of that sort. We are going to be working on a website.

We just don't, we ain't got there yet. So a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff in the works. Yeah. So say a prayer.

If you wouldn't mind, uh, today for pastor, uh, Joseph Allen and grace community

Baptist church in Danville, Kentucky. And we'll, yeah, we're going to have to set this up to check in with you and kind of monitor the progress.

You know, that, that would be, that would be cool. So yeah, that'd be awesome. Thanks for being on. Um, thank you guys for listening today.

Uh, and we'll, we'll catch you next time on the rural church. If you really believe the church is the building of churches, the house, the church is what

God's doing. This, this is his work. If we really believe what Ephesians says, we are the poem mosque, the masterpiece of God.