July 25, 2018 Show with Nancy Snyder on “The Gospel for Moving Targets: Helping Active Children Grow in Grace”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Nancy Snyder’s Background and Testimony

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 25th day of July 2018.

I'm so delighted to have on the program for the very first time a fellow Pennsylvanian, Nancy Snyder. And Nancy, until very recently, before retiring from this specific post at Logos Academy in York, Pennsylvania, she was the K -12 student support services coordinator at Logos Academy with experience as a homeschooling parent of four sons and interpreter of conferences and translator of seminary courses for deaf pastors.

And today she's going to be discussing the gospel for moving targets, helping active children grow in grace. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Nancy Snyder.

Thank you so much, Chris. And I'm going to give our email address right now for our listeners who may have a question about helping active children grow in grace. Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please, as always, make sure that you give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. As you may know, Nancy, when I have a first-time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I usually have them begin by giving their own personal testimony of salvation.

If you could provide for us a little bit of background as to the religion of your youth, if any, if there was any kind of religion at all in your household while being raised as a child, and what the providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord brought about in your life that drew you to himself and eventually saved you.

Sure, my pleasure. So growing up, my father would drop me off at Sunday school while my parents recovered from their Saturday nights, and God used that to develop in me some rudimentary faith that the Bible was God's Word and God was my Father in Heaven.

And then when I was entering high school, my sister invited me to Young Life, and I tried to weeple out of it, but one night it was at our home, and so it was there that I heard the Gospel for the first time, and God used that to bring me to Christ.

However, what I understood at that time was that Christ covered the sin of my past, and I, you know, in my sinful pride or self-dependence, I thought that now that I had the Bible, it was up to me to obey God and try as I might.

That just didn't work out that well. And further complicating things, when I wanted to become a member of the church where my dad had dropped me off when I was a child, they asked me what I believed. It was very untrue.

It was hard to see who was, and it took quite some time of reading the Bible before I understood that I could be a Christian and go to church. I went to a strong church, and the pastor did what I always did when I recovered, and many people said that I was a witch.

My daughter was a teacher of women. I taught the Gospel until I really began to understand it minute by minute. Then I began to see it everywhere in the world, but barely opened my eyes to it.

Amen. You know, you said something interesting about the Gospel being in Christmas carols. When I was a new Christian in the 1980s, I was sitting in an easy chair during the Christmas season, and I saw a Christmas special that was being televised by, hosted by Neil Diamond.

And I remember, in fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think the Church of Scientology choir was singing Christmas carols, or singing his backup. And I remember how infuriated I was initially. I was a cage stage Calvinist at the time, and I was thinking, how dare they sing our hymns of Christ's birth?

And then all of a sudden, it dawned on me, wow, even the page pagans sing praises to Christ, and tell the Gospel story, even if they're unconscious of it, at least one time a year during the Christmas season.

And I saw God's sovereign hand in even that occurring, which initially got me angry. I started to rejoice over it.

Right, right. Born to raise the harker herald, it's about time.

Amen. And he was also singing segments from Handel's Messiah, and it was just, it's just, wow. And I actually happen to like Neil Diamond, I actually saw him in concert at Madison Square Garden, but when I was hearing him as a new Christian singing Christian music, it upset me, but as I said, the Lord took care of that.

Yes, amen. And can you tell us where you are a member, as far as the church where you and your husband now attend?

Absolutely. So my husband is the pastor of a deaf church, and that church is in Lancaster. It is First Deaf Mennonite Church. He's the interim pastor. We're knowing that he's.

Praise God. Can you tell us where you and your husband are at theologically, yourselves?

So we understand that when you interpret, we interpret these theological conferences, when you, and there are two signs for us. But as far as, I happen to be a Reformed Baptist.

Myself, and where would you be in the pedo-credo divide?

So when we were, we were at a church nearby, more deaf people than we could interpret, and so the elders had been right here, and they said, we just want to know what Romans says. Well, praise God for that, and I know already.

That you have a lot of pedigree, as far as I'm concerned, in not only the issue of the bringing the gospel to children, but also just your overall theological perspectives, because I know that the ministry that published your book, The Gospel for Moving Targets, is Shepherd Press, founded by Ted Tripp, who is a friend of mine, and someone whom I have interviewed on this program.

I've also interviewed his wife Margie, and I've also interviewed his brother Paul on this program, and all of them have written wonderful commendations for the show. But I know that I can have complete confidence, knowing of their connection with this work, that there's nothing to fear.

Yeah, I really appreciate the ministry of Shepherd Press. Shepherding a Child's Heart was a book I read every year while raising our four children, which will give you an idea of what kind of challenges we had with our wonderful brood.

Yes, speaking of a connection between Pado and Credo, as you may know, we have Ted Tripp and Margie who are Credo Baptists, and Paul, his brother, is a Pado Baptist.

Yes, and we have Margie as well, who was helpful to me.

By the way, is your husband deaf, or is he just extremely gifted and experienced with sign language?

He is very gifted. He's hearing, and he did not, some of the best, are parents or siblings. And in God's providence, Chuck took the job because he was working with a group of kids in a cabin full of kids, a way to learn any language, but there weren't many classes at that time, so he began learning from a book, and with Honeymoon, they hired me, and together, Chuck and I had 25 teenage deaf boys, rain and grime.

Logos Academy and Classical Christian Education

Now, I know that you're no longer with Logos Academy, you were until very recently, the K -12 Student Support Services Coordinator, and could you, even though you're not with them anymore, let us know about that academy, since it is in my new home state of Pennsylvania, and we have listeners all over the world, but we do have a number in Pennsylvania that might be looking for a good Christian school, they might be in that area, and I understand it's also of a classical Christian background, as far as the nature of the school?

That's right. So what God is doing at Logos is so special. Logos is a classical school, but you probably know that the classical school movement, 20 years ago, there was a child in Chicago who lived in a housing project, and she was just grieved and made their lives.

I have the background in education. She and her partner, who came alongside her, a large African-Latino population, he came to York, Chicago, and Chicago turned around. Wow. So one of the things is that we're an 18-student curriculum, a lot of vibes.

They bring a different energy to the illness. For 20 years, it is intercultural, in that we don't require the students or their families, kingdom school, who are not yet in the kingdom, and they want to do right by their kids and think hard.

Well, praise God, I want to let our listeners know.

That you can find out more about Logos Academy in York, Pennsylvania at logosyork .org, L-O-G-O-S-Y-O-R-K .org. I'm also going to put in a plug for the Christian school that is a part of the church where I was a member for my entire Christian life before moving to Pennsylvania, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, New York in Merrick.

They have a school that is also a classical Christian school called Grace Christian Academy. Their website is G-C-A-L-I, for longisland .com. G-C-A for Grace Christian Academy, L-I for longisland .com.

There is no official connection between Logos and Grace Christian Academy. They are just both Christian and both classical Christian schools. So I just thought I'd let the folks know, for those of you who live in the New York area who might want to investigate Grace Christian Academy.

Why Nancy Snyder Wrote The Gospel for Moving Targets

Well, I'm going to repeat our email address here. It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. If you have a question, we already have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But before we go to any of our listeners, why did you write the Gospel for Moving Targets?

So I have a short answer, and maybe later we'll have time for the backstory. But we have four sons, and homeschool our sons. So I had all day every day to bring the Gospel to bear on their lives and teach them what it meant to live out of union with Christ.

And they were, well, let's put it this way. We had one bathroom all those years, and we had one of our four sons who could brush his teeth in the bathroom with any one of his brothers. Any other pairing of two, and it might take an hour to untangle.

They were the kind of kids who, if you turned your back for a second, I remember the day that two of them were, like, riding their sleds down the front in the city wheelhouses. When I began working with children and dealing with feelings, that feelings are a gift from God, but have to be done.

Hands-on action.

How did you come up with the title? Well, it is a humorous title. I mean, it's really kind of a stupid question, because it's almost self-explanatory. But the Gospel for Moving Targets.

And as I work, constantly shifting away from the Gospel. So it's not just the children. It's their parents. It's their teachers. It's all of us. And, you know, preach and counsel that Gospel to our shifting hearts.

Praise God. I want to read two endorsements, because to read all of them would be too time-consuming, because they're very excellent and lengthy endorsements. But the two I'm going to read are from two of my modern-day heroes, one who is still with us, one who is in heaven.

First of all, Dr. Sinclair Ferguson, who is a Ligonier Teaching Fellow, Visiting Professor of Systematic Theology at Westminster Theological Seminary, and author of The Whole Christ, The Holy Spirit, and In Christ Alone.

He is one of my few remaining modern-day heroes that I have not yet interviewed, and I'm hoping that I get the opportunity to interview Sinclair. I think Sinclair has an aversion to being interviewed on live radio programs.

But he is such a phenomenal preacher and teacher. And he has been a major part of my growing in Christ and learning in Christ since I first got saved in the 1980s by God's mercy. But Dr. Sinclair Ferguson says, Nancy Snyder knows what the word rambunctious means.

She has seen it in action in nurturing her own children. If you are a parent, chances are you have also seen it and wondered how to handle it. If so, The Gospel for Moving Targets is just what you need.

In fact, this is also a book for all families. It is full of mature biblical wisdom and a real understanding of how Christian character is formed. Anyone who buys The Gospel for Moving Targets to help them love their children will find its teaching transforming them first of all.

And that, of course, is exactly how God means family life to be. And also, the brother that I mentioned who is now in heaven, Jerry Bridges, who I did have the opportunity to interview a couple of times, and he wrote a wonderful commendation for this radio program.

Jerry Bridges, known for his book The Pursuit of Holiness, a book that I give away to everyone I know who is going through a serious trial, Trusting God Even When Life Hurts. Jerry Bridges said, The Bible is meant to be applied to one's daily life, but how to communicate this to small children is a challenge.

Nancy Snyder has given us a creative way to do this involving the children in the learning process. This book should prove useful to parents, grandparents, and anyone else working with small children.

Well, we are going to go to our first break right now, and we'll start taking our listener questions. And again, if anybody would like to ask a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

That's C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with Nancy Snyder and more on the gospel for Moving Targets, Helping Active Children Grow in Grace.

Testimony, Christmas Carols, and Church Membership

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor. It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc. Have a great day.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer. He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy.

Currently, his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states. In Illinois, his lawyers had the 4th largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call Dan.

Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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The Challenge of Children’s Sin and the Need for the Gospel

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the very first time is Nancy Snyder and we are discussing her book The Gospel for Moving Targets, Helping Active Children Grow in Grace.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And I can understand a subject like Helping Active Children Grow in Grace. I can understand how that might lead to personal and private messages, questions, I should say, if you are asking about your own children and there's some kind of very serious or delicate issue or intimately personal issue that you want to ask.

So you may feel free to remain anonymous if those are the cases. But other than that, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. And before I go to any of you who are already waiting, I want to ask you, Nancy, are there societal forces making life more challenging for children?

So, life has never... There were no children... only lived easy to be able, of course, or Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

You know, I've known that theologically all my Christian life, but I never even thought of it that way until you just said it, that there were no children before the fall. Even though I knew that,.

It struck me in a different way when you just said it. Yeah, so children are so vulnerable in occupation, Babylonian exile. You just go through history, and even right now, not here, but not like in a thousand people.

There were self-issues. One of my roles as a student who has these high numbers, and that's what I...

Great. If you could, please return to the backstory on why you wrote the book. It has something to do with children and gender, if you don't mind telling.

It does. So, two of whom were born in our family, and two of whom were adopted. We wanted to adopt. When he was growing up, we were much more private about his story. He has since given me permission.

In fact, you can tell anyone, because I... Maybe people who hear, having a little deaf boy, a lot of problems in the nation, Christian people told me, there's nothing you can do about them. It's an encouragement to us, wildly, just to see him on one end of the continuum.

And that turned out to be very helpful. To learn what it meant to be... Not... Very, very glad we didn't turn him into a girl.

And... Of course, I don't think you wouldn't have done that anyway, would you?

We wouldn't have. However, it gets... You've got a child who is screaming and confusing when you face this day after day. We had to really rant, calling him... They bled, and what they bled was redemption.

Gender is... You and I both know that God just gives... You've had gifts in your life that have been hard gifts in our... Conscience for a decade. No, no. There were not many ways to reach his heart, so I wrote a book.

And the characters were based on him and his brother and a couple important in our lives. And it takes two of these children who were both their gender. And that's all very gently woven into the background.

The book is called Lions for Ajax. And Shepherd Press has said that they're going to publish that next.

Wow. Well, I've got to have you back to talk about that. Now, did you say it was called Lions for Asia?

Ajax. Ajax. Oh. And so I originally wrote this for that child's gender presentation. I understand why they're doing it. They're in so much... Their child is in this kind of pain another day. And the professionals are saying to them, you don't change your child's gender presentation, your child will have a higher likelihood of suicide.

Well, that's a heavy burden to lay on any parent. Nobody wants to hear that. And so I just wanted to come alongside them not to... I'm not trying to come down on anybody. I'm just trying to gently open a path that I think is God's path.

I sent it to Shepherd, the process of trying to write on a subject that they don't even want to acknowledge could exist in family. I mentioned I have this other curriculum that would be, I think, an easier sell.

It's a curriculum for a school and they asked me to rewrite it as more short, lively... in terms of gender that prompted me to take those little lessons...

Now, forgive me for asking you to repeat a couple of the facts here. First of all, I don't want to derail our main conversation here, but this is so fascinating to me that I wanted to just have a couple of issues clarified.

How young was your son when he was approaching you with this desire to be a girl? This was before the.

Gender identity. And I had never heard that. Of course, we felt very alone with it.

I can imagine. And the other question was, if you could repeat today, this is 15 years later, did you say?

Oh, he is 4 years old.

You mean the masculinity now? Mm-hmm. Is he married? Does he have children?

He is single in that area. Okay. But as far as.

His being very comfortable with the gender that God gave him, that seems to be a thoroughly accomplished gift from God right now in his life. Yes. Thank God. Well, that's a fascinating story that I definitely want to continue at some other point.

Before we move on to our other main issue, the Gospel for Moving Targets, do you have any idea? I mean, some of this is just speculation because there is mystery behind this. You have those on one side of the debate amongst Christians who say that someone could never be born with that proclivity or inclination.

Then you have another side which would say that, well, if we are born totally depraved, if we are born with a sin nature, why couldn't that be one of the sins that somebody has a proclivity toward? I used to be on the first category of saying there's no way that a person is born that way, but then when my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries said to me that simple statement, he said, well, if we're born totally depraved, why couldn't that be one of the proclivities that a person has?

And I just totally brought a different light on this subject. And.

Adoption is an area of interest to us. One of the books I read was called Identical Strangers, and it's a memoir of twins who were separated and reunited. A foster mother said about one of the twins, oh, she's a great eater.

She'll eat anything as long as it has cinnamon on it. And the other foster mother, not knowing, none of these people knew that these children will only eat something if it has cinnamon on it. Reading that book, there is a lot of mystery in genetics.

And this son was adopted, am I correct? That's right. One can only wonder what happened before you adopted him and so on. And I want to repeat to our listeners that believing that there is a possibility somebody is born with this kind of proclivity or proclivity or inclination towards homosexuality does not mean that a person believing that believes that that is a license for a person to live that way.

It's just like there are proclivities that someone may have because of our depraved nature that leads them to kill or steal or any other kind of wicked activity. It doesn't mean that since they are born with a proclivity towards that, that that is acceptable just because they were born that way.

So I just wanted to make that clear that this is not a discussion on how someone can salve their conscience by moving forward with a certain decision just because they think they were born that way. We are going to our midway break right now before we take any of our listener questions.

The midway break is longer than our other breaks because Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida always requires of us a longer midway break because they air their own commercials in Lake City, Florida and air their own public service announcements and so on.

So please be patient as we take this elongated break. Use this time to write down questions for our guest Nancy Snyder on helping active children grow in grace and also use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more successfully and frequently patronize them because the more you patronize our advertisers the more likely they are to remain as advertisers and their finances are what keep us on the air in addition to the generous support of those of you listening who donate to us regularly and we thank God for all of you.

But our email address if you have a question for Nancy Snyder is Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Chris Orenson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer. He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy. Currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call Dan.

Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor. It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan.