TiL- Regulative Principle- part 2

Welcome to the truth and love podcast. Thank you for joining us tonight We have

Dan back with us from Part of his pastoral ordination exam.

We're looking forward to hear a little bit from that and we're going to continue Part two of what we started a while back on Part of his examination on the regular

Regulative principle that one's hard to say stick with us. We'll be right back I Welcome back the comment

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We want to glorify God. We're not looking for platform We're not trying to build our kingdom. We're trying to build Christ's kingdom.

So that's not what we're about, but we like partnering with you to build God's kingdom and to share the gospel and I'm looking for a

Looking for a promo video for the conference because I wanted to let everybody know and remind everybody that we have a conference coming up At the end of April April 26 to the 28th in Knoxville, Tennessee at Reprimanda Baptist Church Do we we do we do we do we do

I better take a few days off work You can register guess how much it is then

The low low price of free 99 you you are exactly right and On the promo video.

I am unsure Um, well, let's let's play let's play this one.

We'll see what it is Brother Tyler, no, we put that thing together.

It looks good Yeah But there if you go to the website There is information and you don't have to stay at one of these places

But there's information about hotels that you can look into things to do. You don't have to do those things

They're just there for your interest and to give you a head start on things to do while you're there in Knoxville, Tennessee It's not far from Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg.

We we actually visited up there and Buggies and Bucky's is close to Bucky's so you can visit

Bucky's Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge Cades Cove just take a week off go do all those fun things and come to the conference over the weekend

We'd love to see you there But there's information on the website about things you do place you can stay register for free

There's limited space, but we do have plenty of space still available for you. So come out and see us

Excuse me. I Want to hear from you brother

Dan the man my brother a friend he Dan is going through the pastoral ordination process in the

I Was gonna say CREC, but the RPC and a right

Presbyterian branch branch of the Presbyterian Church and I'm proud of you and I'm not envious.

It seems like a ton of work hard work that you have to do So let us know what you did last weekend all the exams what it was like Yeah, well,

I mean some people may not even know how a Presbyterian meeting goes like what's the purpose of it

So Presbyterian at least in our Presbytery and a lot of them are the same way

It's basically a gathering of delegates, which are all elders in the church either ruling elders or teaching elders.

They get together to do The work work of the church so they get together to talk about A church planning or different missions opportunities get together to talk about For instance, we have a joint

Camp that we we work with with with another Presbytery we're talking about a

Certain policies that would be put in place there also, one of the bigger things that they do is the examination of towards ordination to Hold office to be ministers of the gospel

So I think there was let me let me count it up. I Had two other fellow had two other guys

So there were seven exams that took place over the course of of the weekend. We met from Friday I think 3 p .m.

We started three till we ran to about nine Then we're there the next day from 8 a .m.

To about 2 30 or so, you know had lunch meal little breaks and stuff

So I Was examined once on Friday night in Bible knowledge and once on Saturday morning for systematic theology and Reformed Presbyterian distinctive principles

So Bible knowledge if you've ever heard of a Bible trivia

Game where they just quiz you on different Bible trivia stuff. That's exactly what that was

Only imagine it being high stakes High stakes, you know tons of pressure

Everybody's watching you and then they're gonna vote on you to see how you did afterwards

Um, there's the the way that different Delegates the different elders in our presbytery will give different exams at certain times

This one fella from the church we were at in Rhode Island Pastor how he's given

This exam I've watched him give it to one other person and he gave it to me It's it's slightly different, but he goes rapid -fire and asked all sorts of different questions about the

Bible and the the exam itself that he put together is designed to show as Much of the

Bible puts you in front of as much of the Bible as possible and show how Familiar you are with it while at the same time showing you what your weaknesses may be so that way you can see

Maybe what you need to go back and read more what you need to pay attention to more And let's just say that when you're finding out your weaknesses while trying to pass an exam in front of you know

All of the presbytery people who are watching, you know visitors. There's children and wives and everything else there

It's nerve -wracking. Oh Man so if you didn't know one you just said pass and so I don't know

I I felt like I passed on like three quarters of my it wasn't anywhere close to that number But I felt beat up and abused and it was it was rough

But it was one. It was one of your weaknesses doing a podcast with a Baptist No, they they encouraged me to keep on working on you

Who will bring you along someday? So we got to the end of it

And I don't know about 20 minutes because there's a 30 minute 30 minute exam 30 or 35 minutes of just non -stop

Bible trivia questions Yeah about I don't know about two -thirds of the way through and I was just I was second -guessing my life choices

I didn't know I was like, oh man, like am I cut out for this? Is this I was just I was

Defeated Got through and they always ask they do a roll call vote.

So they call on the different pastors and they they asked The exam giver

You know what Yeah, Rob, the Presbyterian does have a nice ring to it.

You know what? I usually post those comments up on the screen. I don't know if I can do that one brother reap.

Yes So they so they asked asked the examiner first and you either sustain or you you do not sustain and He said that that He he sustained me.

He said no what I was trying to do in the exam you you showed What I wanted to know, you know you've got some stuff to work on but you've done well enough to where I can

I can pass off on this and Although who won now, how about these other, you know 20 or so?

Delegates over there and so they went through and I didn't hear I didn't hear a single one not sustain me now.

It did go back the other Somebody either didn't vote or something.

I forget what it was. It wasn't unanimous, but it was close to it about as close Yes, the stain is good

So this is about as close as you could I don't know. I don't know exactly what happened But it was it was overwhelmingly positive feedback and then

The next morning I had systematic theology and Reform Presbyterian distinctives, it was basically questions on that you would find in the shorter catechism

He would poke and prod in different areas the justification adoption sanctification probe a little bit deeper make sure that wasn't just Memorizing the catechism and giving him the answers which

I did The first question he asked Was oh, what is

God and I just like from memory rattled it off He's like, let's do these in our you know in our own words

He poked and prodded I Got the NFL much more comfortable with that and Got to the end and he even asked me some questions

Some of some of my guys were saying that's probably some some second level exam stuff I did all right on so Every I got went through and everybody who voted voted

Affirmatively passed me on that one. So overall, it was a good experience talking to the the pastors from the different churches around the

Northeast and Encouraging each other and praying with one another eating with one another and seeing how the ministry is going around the way and We had we had one one, this is a funny story real quick so we're getting in on some time or whatever but They were talking about the students under care and That would be myself, you know people who are going to be examined and the guy said that when

The students are called on to preach in the different churches. They need to make sure to make an effort to make it there

To those churches, you know, so I can get opportunities in the pulpit I was like, well, you know, I'm bouncing all over the place preaching all over the place.

So That's great. So After that session we had a 15 -minute break and I was coming back for my exam so I wanted a little time to myself so I mosey downstairs and off in a corner found a restroom and I was

Using the facilities and in walks that pastor and says, hey, how you doing?

I'm doing good talk for the ways like so you're coming to preach for me soon, right? It's like I guess I can't say no.

He chased me all the way down here So I'm gonna go it was a 14th of April.

I'm gonna head down to Pennsylvania and Spend some time with the

Saints down there for a little bit. It should be a good time Fantastic, it's it's a it's a good

It's a good time we Let's see. I don't know if I have it right here. Is it close to the chocolate area?

the time area No, kind of it's it's on the way there. Gotcha but we we

We gather together. We always end by singing Psalm They're gonna 133

What a joyful thing it is for brothers to join together in unity, so we sing that Psalm at the end of Presbytery and to remind ourselves of of the brotherhood of the

Saints as we are gathered together with with one God who's called us into his church and Gifted us in various ways and it's uh, so it's a really good time

Wow, fantastic maybe I don't know that if I'm brave enough to ask you for any softball questions that you could throw this

Baptist Maybe it's something we'll have to do offline. So I don't I don't embarrass myself Here's here's one that I got

Our children of believers proper subjects of baptism, so I would probably fail at that point

Yes, yes And then they asked me why

I gave the answer but we're not we're not going there we're talking about yeah Well, just one question all that which that particular question which you said you had

Friday questions and Saturday two different categories. So which which category did that question?

I was from systematic theology. Oh Okay, so that wasn't under Presbyterian distinctive but No, no that that would be a

Presbyterian distinctive, but it's not a reformed Presbyterian distinctive the reformed

Presbyterian being our denomination Okay Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay, that makes sense.

I got following up on you. So there's so many terms Just yeah, it's hold on if you got questions ask and we'll be fine.

We'll get through it together Yeah, yes, and by the way, send us your questions on the on the comments. We'd love to hear from you

So probably about two weeks ago now right we we started this To help you sent me questions to help you

Study for your exam, but it also helps me and and I appreciate had this conversation.

It's a good conversation. I have we We need to look at how we worship God Collective when we gather together collectively and and one of the views is

The regulative principle of worship and we talked about last time on in part one the the exclusivity of psalms exclusive psalm of the

And we talked about that and and the psalms and and kind of your defense you took us to Deuteronomy 12 first chronicle first Chronicles 25 kind of a biblical defense

For the exclusivity of psalms in in the regulative principle of worship so Before we get started in the second half of your list

Define for us again the regulative principle the the regulative principle of worship says that God is able to regulate

How he is to be worshipped Which means that we don't do anything other we don't we strive to not do anything in worship other than what

God has expressly commanded in Scripture now that goes Over against The normative principle of worship which states that whatever

God is not forbidden is acceptable in worship Right, right and so so some now

I'll say this inside of the the regulative principle camp

There are people who do not hold to exclusive psalmody. So they would sing hymns or even modern modern worship songs

There's also folks who? use instruments in Worship who are also would say they hold to the regulative principle but we we distinguish it in the

Reformed Presbyterian Church because we believe that these things are spoken to and that we should only

Sing the Psalms and we should not use instruments while we are worshipping right and then that leads us into Drumroll the second half of your list that you sent me

Which was actually one of my questions it was it was one of my questions

I got during my systematic theology exam and I was glad that I prepared for it.

Even if we didn't get to go live with it before Presbyterian because everything That we're about to talk about I had to come up with in like a minute and a half off the top of my head

So it was it was uh, it was fun Yeah, well and and I really not fought you against You know sometimes in these conversations when we we practice different things in our churches

We have disagreements and discrepancies contentions different, you know

Different ways to describe our differences, but I really not and I'll call it pushback

I'm not giving you much pushback, but I didn't in the the first one Mainly cause

I didn't have much and second You know, I wanted to hear your defense and your denominations defense on the regulative principle.

I really don't have What what defense really can there be even if even if I don't hold

To the regular principle somebody else doesn't hold to regular principle Like you were talking about some people hold to a partial

Regulative principle or not partial but Different.

I don't know how to believe what's been regulated is slightly different than what we believe has been regulated, right?

Right. I Don't see how anybody could give too much pushback and give anybody a hard time for we're holding the regulative principle

Only from self selfishness really could you argue against it because you're you're just wanting to do what you want to do

And you're mad that you can't do it in the service to me. That's kind of how I see it, but The regular difference was is if it's what you say

Worshiping according how God desires to be worshipped and and by his means You you can't argue with that I guess where the argument would come in is

Like you said where where does he regulate how much does he regulate? Right as God said that he

Has God limited it to everything that he said explicitly or does he allow us some freedom and that's real that's really where the distinction between normative and regulative principle is is

Are we restricted to what God has explicitly said or has God give us some freedom within some parameters where he said well

Don't go over here and don't do that. But no figure it out amongst yourselves in the middle. That's really where the discussion lies

Yeah, and once we get to the end if we can get through it Dan I Think this question was brought up.

I don't know if you answer it or not but when we have our conference in April, you know,

I think we you and I talked about that and For somebody who holds a regular principle and you're going to a conference and you're participating in the conference

That's not going to be a regular principle style of worship How do you handle that I guess we can save that towards the end

I guess If that's okay. Well, we'll see. Let me think through that one because there's actually a case of that going through Somewhat similar going through our or a synod right now.

Okay It's our answer Carefully Actually, yeah.

Yeah. Well, hey and we can put it on pause So, where do you get the the subject of the second half of the regular principle that Dan wanted to talk about Was about no instruments in worship so so the regular principle here is stating that God is in how he's regulating worship that it be done without Instruments, where where do you get that from and what is the biblical argument?

Well, that's just the thing it comes from from the Bible at least we said we we think it comes from the

Bible that that's what we derive our our Argument from is it is from the

Bible? we look back to Old Testament worship and then we we look forward through through how

God has has determined that he should be worshipped through time and We arrive at the position that we do because we see through the

Old Testament worship to the New Testament worship The instruments are no longer Necessary and and to go ahead and give away where we're headed because Instrumentation was a foreshadowing or a symbol of the coming

Holy Spirit That we as the church Now now have been given from Christ So that's that's that's jumping the whole thing

We start at the beginning we get to where instruments are a foreshadowing of the

Holy Spirit Now there's a lot in the middle that I need to fill in to make that case and I understand that but I kind of wanted to give the

Overview, but you know before we got started like that's where we're headed. I'm not gonna Here's my cards and we'll lay them out for you.

Not gonna hold them close and make you guess so We we start off by looking at how

God has Asked us to worship him throughout church history

Especially from a Presbyterian perspective that means Old Testament church straight on through till today.

How has God asked? How is he determined that we should worship him? so in The book of Numbers Start in the book of Numbers as far as as instruments go we see this in Numbers 10 verses 1 & 2

We see where it says Yahweh spoke to further to Moses saying Make yourself two trumpets of silver of hammered work and you shall make them and you shall use them

For the summoning of the congregation and For having the camp set out

So there's two part. There's two purposes Well first there was instruments.

There were silver trumpets. They were to blow them and it would say hey congregation come

Or hey gather up your camp. We're getting ready to leave so there was

Instrumentation that was that was used in In Israel now that didn't really have anything to do with worship.

But if you go on into a Few verses later it talks about how it should be blown this time at that time when you're convening the assembly

You know do this and that and then goes down to verse 10 Also in the day of your gladness

And in your appointed feast and on the first days of the months you shall blow the trumpets

Over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings

And they shall be a remembrance of you before your God. I am Yahweh your

God so we see that Use of instruments is linked to worship

It's linked to specifically the sacrifice So as the sacrifice is is going to be offered the the trumpets are blowing

Calling the people to come worship blowing over the sacrifice itself and the sacrifice is presented now look into what trumpets symbolize in a little bit, but It has to do with preaching or proclaiming or calling out

It's it's an announcement is what the trumpets are. You see that in Isaiah where it calls

Isaiah Preaching a trumpeting. You also see that in Revelation where it talks about different warnings of God's wrath

The trumpets that are blown there. There are announcements. It's it's a prophetic calling from from God to mankind

But let me pause you right there I chuckled just a little bit when you were talking about God having them make trumpets hammer trumpets and then blow them to call the people into worship

At that moment I was just imagining our Sunday school director growing up going to the office and pushing the button and then hearing that that bell ring all across the church

It's Sunday school's over wrap it up. It's time to come to service well same same basic principle of Yeah, yeah, it's the same basic principle.

Hey guys, come on, you know Sunday school teacher blowing ringing the bell. Come on guys.

It's time God has called us a sacrifice is here. Let's let's let's do this

So One thing to note to note there though is that There wasn't singing at that point

And not only wasn't there singing There was no instrumentation during singing

Obviously, there's no singing. There's no instrumentation during you're saying now that changes

The way that God had had asked the people of Israel to worship him Changed and it changed at the time of David now what's significant about that is

That at the time of Moses you have the Mosaic Covenant God calling a people to to worship him in a certain way

He sees he's covenanting with them and then giving them Ways that he did they should approach him or worship him

You see that kind of it kind of splits up the book of Exodus of things chapters 1 through 24 25

Constitutes a covenanted people with God and the rest of the chap the rest of the book is on how

How that people is to worship God You know the different feasts and festivals and how they're to approach and live among among a holy

God so when you get to David You have the

Divinic Covenant the promise of the coming Messiah The one who's going to sit on David's throne forever and that's the next time that you see a change in worship

So you want to go to Chronicles you have questions before we move no, I'm good I'm talking a lot

I want to make sure I'm not missing anything You go right ahead. I'm I'm following along all right, so you end up in first Chronicles and David changes some things first Chronicles 6

Verses 30 C 31 and 32 Says now these are those whom

David caused to stand over the service of the song in the house of Yahweh After the ark rested there, so there was the tabernacle the ark rested in this place in the tabernacle

It was kind of set up in one spot. They weren't really moving it around a whole bunch and David said

All right we're going to have songs here and This is how it's going to work verse 32 and they ministered with song before the tabernacle of the tent of meeting

Until Solomon had built the house of Yahweh in Jerusalem and they stood for their service according to their custom so they did that from the tabernacle and then when

Solomon had built the temple they moved their services from The tabernacle into the temple and they did the same thing.

So there was there was music going on. This is song So David had made a change now

Why did David make a change? I mean if we're arguing for the regulative principle that God regulates things and how is

David able to introduce this and I was wondering about that and you know, the

Bible has a great way of answering its own questions If you go over to 2nd

Chronicles, it recounts this whole thing again Tells us the whole story again in 2nd

Chronicles kind of as a sum -up Verse 25 2nd

Chronicles 29 25 He then caused the Levites to stand in the house of Yahweh with symbols with harps with liars

According to the commandment of David and of Gad the king seer and of Nathan the prophet for because The command was from Yahweh by the hand of his prophets

So while in 1st Chronicles, it just says David did it we see in 2nd Chronicles It explains that he had two prophets that spoke from the

Lord to him that this is what I want you to do I want you to change how Worship is done by adding in song and instrumentation

But the instrumentation and the song we're still tied to the temple still tied to the ark

Excuse me still tied to that sacrifice Which which is is key so if you go if you pop over to First Chronicles back over to first Chronicles You actually see this in an action in 15 chapter 15 verse 16.

It says then David said to the chiefs of the Levites to appoint the relatives the singers with instruments of heart instruments music harps liars loud -sounding cymbals to raise a sound of gladness, so What what he's doing there is he's saying

I want you to go out and I want you to make music Because I want you to draw the people in With with emotion.

I want you to change their emotion to a thing of gladness You're here at the temple.

The sacrifices are being made your God is Among you and you are to be glad and happy and here's some music to help you along to do that Like I said to raise the sound of to make a joyful noise before the

Lord you go into the next chapter Into chapter 16 and it talks about What this kind of looked like Chapter 16 verse 4 and he made some of the

Levites ministers before the ark of Yahweh Even to bring remembrance and and to thank and praise

Yahweh the God of Israel So there was Asaph so we heard Psalms from from Asaph these were the

My mind went blank I've got to do this earlier in the day. So my mind doesn't stop There's a family

That was in turn their whole job is music Levites part of the Levitical priesthood their job was to make music with instruments there

So Looking on into the that same chapter a little bit further you go to Verse 42 and it says and with them were

Heman to do thin with trumpets and cymbals for those who should sound aloud with instruments for the songs of God and the sons of Judean for the gate

Then all the people went each to his house and David returned to bless his household So they entered into the temple or the tabernacle at that point

They they worshiped God by blowing the trumpets and clanging the cymbals over the sacrifice by singing while the sacrifice was taking place and And that singing was accompanied with Instruments told you my brain is fried

It's a company with instruments now Here's the part that you're going to find

Interesting Well, you've already hinted at it earlier and I've I've been on pins and needles here waiting on you get to get to it

Jump ahead and I'm going to jump further ahead. I'm gonna jump back. Oh my goodness. I gotta wait longer

No, but I'm getting there quick. All right now in the book of Revelation Because you know who goes from first Chronicles of Revelation I do

And so did the early church, but we'll get to that in a little bit too If you go into book of Revelation Verses eight and nine

It's describing the scene in heaven. It describes the the the people who are there the the elders

And when he had taken the scroll the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb, which is

Jesus Also Remember Lamb was a sacrifice

Which is part of the symbolism from the Old Testament each one having a harp so an instrument in the

New Testament and golden bull bulls full of incense

Now, what are the golden bulls full of incense which are the prayers of the Saints?

So the things that they're holding in their hands are holding a golden bull

Which is the prayer of the Saints and they're holding a harp Which is music

Now if the golden bull is symbolic of prayer The harp is symbolic of music

Now here's the part where I think you're gonna find it interesting Um, you have the the symbol you have the

Old Testament as The Old Testament law is a schoolmaster to teach the

The Old Testament people how to live and worship among God You have the different sacrifices

That are set up in order to point to Christ who is coming to be The sacrifice of sacrifices the once for all sacrifice perfected for for the

Saints for for all time You have the Levitical priesthood, which is to pass away in And be replaced with the

Melchizedekian priesthood or the priesthood of Melchizedek, which is Christ serving as the office of high priest, right?

So Was there a set of events that took place in which

God Shut down Old Testament worship destroyed the temple and put away the the

Old Testament Levitical system and you

The partial preterist that you are and me as well We know that the answer to that is yeah in 70

AD God visited the nation of Israel in judgment He saw that he saw the temple destroyed

The Levitical priesthood put down as we know from the book of Hebrews That Christ was then

Christ was exalted, but Christ was was shown to be proven to be not that he wasn't already but proven to be the

The the sacrifice from the Old Testament Not only was he the sacrifice from the

Old Testament But he put away the Levitical priesthood which the all of the instrumentation that went along with the singing

Which was accompanied with the sacrifice the Levitical priesthood was put away So since Levitical priesthood was put away in favor of Christ since the

Since the sacrifice was put away in favor of Christ What we are left with is

The New Testament Saints worshipping in spirit and in truth on the truth of Christ who's come and become the sacrifice once and for all for Saints for all time and In the spirit, which is the

Holy Spirit Who is I believe? Foreshadowed in the use of the instruments who who dropped remember that they

Were there to make a noise a sound of gladness Now we didn't we don't need

Musical instruments to produce gladness because we are all worshipping with joy in our hearts placed there by the

Holy Spirit Which means that those Saints in Revelation who were holding the prayers of the

Saints in a golden ball in one hand Or holding the songs of the Saints in the other hand, which is the harp which is the instrument who is actually giving the praise which is us

We're the instruments That praise God not a harp or a trumpet or a guitar

But we are the instruments of praise empowered by the Holy Spirit. I Really?

I really would like you to dive deeper into that How the instruments are topology of the

Holy Spirit But what you just said about how the the interim instruments were used to to bring gladness

That hit me like Like a sledgehammer because I want to think about worship quote worship in quote churches today how

Muse how music is abused Sure to to manipulate emotion to manipulate responses and so if you don't if you don't have that then you

You're eliminating a lot of the abuses that you're seeing in in quote churches today right, and It's documented.

I mean you can find the videos where These worship leaders are

Intentionally creating the songs the atmosphere and the The whole

Set is what they call it. Yeah to Bring about a certain response.

Yep, and it was when I was in Bible College. We had a whole

Program that was about music and worship leading. I Sense music in Music can't help but draw out emotion

You know, how do you feel about emotionally manipulating people because that's what we're doing during the worship service you know,

I didn't really think I Hadn't thought everything all the way through What like I have now

I wouldn't say I've bought everything all the way through but I Hadn't thought through things nearly as well or as much as I have now and I said well,

I guess since since music since instruments and music

Automatically evoke emotion that we ought to try to help people emote in the right direction But that's not our job

That's the job of the Holy Spirit. That's right Yeah, yeah

Um, I'm trying not to pin myself into a corner and get in trouble but But agreeing with you too much, but no

I do agree with you and there's there's dangers in it I'm not ready to condemn instruments and music but the the argument here for For what music does to us,

I mean you're totally right and You know, I'm tracking with you through scripture

Yeah So look at look at Luke 4 for a second

Luke 4 and verse 18 It's where Jesus was was in the in the synagogue and he was handed the scroll of Isaiah and he read

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. So I mean the Holy Spirit is upon Christ Because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor to proclaim to trumpet the gospel to the poor

He has sent me to proclaim Release to the captives or sacrifice

Or for the Sacrifice that would set them free from their sins and recovery of the sight to the blind to set free those who are oppressed the the healing of the nations to proclaim the favorable year of the

Lord the thing that God has been working on all along is Now come has been fulfilled in me is what he's saying

Which is incredible I don't know how the Jews didn't they either got goose bumps or wanted to stone him

It's like oh, is this it? Yeah, he's here. That would be oh, it's great

Unless you thought he was lying to you, but clearly wasn't otherwise, we would be

Jewish but Then you get if you if you follow along over into 1st

Corinthians, I know I'm Gotta have your running fingers on today, I guess First 1st

Corinthians 2 verse 4

Let me back up a second, it's the middle of a sentence starting verse 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling and my word and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom

But in the demonstration of the spirit and of power So what Paul was saying there is

I came to you and I preached and you received the Holy Spirit You were saved by Christ your sacrifice not because I was

Whipping you up into an emotional frenzy, but because the Spirit of God was there in the preaching

The Spirit of God has come among you And so you see

Jesus saying the Spirit of God is among it is upon him The Spirit of God has come upon the church the preaching of Christ and now look ahead into a book of Ephesians verse 18 and 19

Where he says and do not get drunk with wine For that is dissipation but be filled with the

Spirit so be filled with the Spirit the one who is Upon Christ and saving people in the church and what do we do when we're filled with the

Spirit? It says speaking to one another in Psalms hymns and spiritual songs singing and making melody with your heart

To the Lord the instruments are nowhere to be found because the

Holy Spirit is there guiding us along the whole way So, what does it look like to be filled with the

Spirit It's singing Psalms with joy and the melody comes from your heart

Not from an instrument It's something that's produced in us by God not hoisted on us by external forces

And I've noticed the difference And and this is before I even knew the regulative principle even existed

But I've noticed difference and since the difference recognized the difference when singing a cappella with a group

Whether it be a group of four or whether it be a choir or whether it be a congregation I'm recognized the difference

In that versus singing with instruments saying with music Now the the instrumentation and the voices put together it's it's a beautiful thing

I mean God God created those things. They're they're beautiful And you're not talking.

I mean, you're not condemning musical instruments I think you're you're talking about the worship setting during during prescribed corporate worship.

Yeah, correct, correct So, you know the last question on here is our our RP is against musical instruments all together answers.

No, we would play them Right, right, we'll even use the pipe organs in our churches just just not on Sunday morning gotcha

Think about it is and and I would I want to encourage It I Think people don't realize and recognize

Because it doesn't happen much anymore. I know it does in your setting but but typically singing a cappella

It I don't know that it happens much anymore I was just I was just at a funeral this this past Friday and The the pianist she played she played the song the the quartet they sang the music the words and as Sometimes is done

So once you get towards three quarters towards the end of the song The maybe during the chorus or the last verse

They'll they'll slow down or take away the music all the way to where's there's this a cappella section and then they'll bring at the end the the the music of piano back but during that time

Hearing the a cappella Is it's it's different Yeah, then with the rest of the time and and of course

Of course it is. Why would they take away the music to make something different because there is something special about just the voices

Yep, I think so You pop up Our friend.

Mr. Phillips comment again. Yeah. Yeah read through that real quick and I just wanted to say that I Understand where you're coming from But I also want to give a word of caution

Because First Corinthians also says that we need to do everything decently and in order so We've got to find we have to have a balance between what's premeditated and What's spontaneous to where we are?

Controlled enough that everything is decent in order But It's not so rigid and Mechanical that we're not that we don't fall that we don't go the other direction and have

No, no spirit guiding us and giving us What I'm trying to say

The joy and gladness of the joy of the Lord in our presence So we're not so loose that the joy of the

Lord could be Maybe the joy of ourselves, but we're not so tight where the joy of the

Lord just isn't there Yeah, so there's gotta be gotta be a balance. Well and the bad premeditation that I was talking about too is

Especially these megachurches and these smaller wannabe megachurches that sometimes even hire musicians that are not

Christians singers that are not Christians and During their practices when you have to audition for them you have to be good enough and then they they come together and sit and plan and they'll sing these songs with With so much repetition that it gets you in a hypnotic state

And you think I'm lying but know that that is intentional that they they have you sing repetitious songs with Lights dimmed smoke

Perfect lights to get you to get you in a suggestible state You can look it up there is documented and that's the kind of premeditation worship that you know that I was talking about That's that's bad.

Yeah that started back in the Charles Finney days hmm Yep Yeah, I've seen some some fairly fairly strong abuses on that front

But oh to her point. It says wait until you sing in Psalms with the congregation

With no instruments. It's literally heavenly my pastor brought out a Great point that the book of Ephesians tells us that we are presently seated with him in the heavenlies

Mm -hmm. Oh, I mean Presently see I mean

Presently seated with with Christ in in the heavenly singing his psalms to him in his presence

The the harp and the golden bowl of incense to 24 elders right there in front of the

King of Kings So we enter into worship We're entering into worship in the presence of a holy

God It's incredible Just figure

I bring that up Yeah, yes, he does know how to spell to Typos happen.

I've done plenty of them Half the time I've learned how to spell words by typing something then clicking on the little red line

So won't you ask me what what acapella means So Dan I had this on my mind for a while.

I wanted to get to it Acapella, what would you say that means? Can you phrase acapella means in?

Like the chapel or in the manner of the church in other words It means the way that the church sings

So all the way back in Latin, it's from from church history. It's been the practice of the church not to use instruments

And that goes that goes back a while you got The first five centuries of the church filled with folks talking about not using instruments

One of the reasons they didn't want to use instruments was because they didn't want to be considered Judaizers or those who are going back to the

Old Testament way of doing things Calvin Said Let's see

He said a bunch of stuff Yeah, Calvin Didn't use instruments in in in Geneva Aquinas was the same way.

He didn't use he said the instruments were not Beneficial Spurgeon was against instrumentation in Music as well all of them

Of That the Eastern Orthodox Church still doesn't use instruments in worship

It's been it's been the practice of the church throughout throughout the ages to to not use instrumentation

It's really only been somewhat. I say somewhat recently it's been it's been a while, but most most of large portion of church history, especially the beginning

Of Instrumentation just wasn't used in in the church Yeah, so so even if you're not convinced by the argument

I laid out most of the early church was Right.

Yeah That's the thing you look into the to the early church fathers and the argument that I laid out is the argumentation that they use

To say we're we're not going to do this. I Was just looking up a verse that we our pastor preached on Sunday, he was in Luke 24 and It what we're talking about tonight and talking about the

Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit causing causing the emotion leading the emotion Directing what he would have to us to emote when we're singing a fella without instruments seen together with our voices

You many people many people haven't experienced what what that feels like and It may sound weird sound strange to some people's ears

But the same thing happens with With preaching in the in the

Word of God It's hard for me to do two things one time You got it,

I believe in you I can I'm gonna find that I'm gonna find it I went a little too far Luke Luke 24

Where that you have the two men on the road to a maze Jesus walks up with him begins to walk and he's like What do you what are the words?

What are the words that are going on between you two? And what are you talking about? What how much? You couldn't have been anywhere near Jerusalem and not heard what was going on and he was like What what things are you talking about going on?

And then Jesus begins to to open up though the Word of God the Old Testament and showing himself in all of the all in the

New Testament and beginning with Moses and the prophets

He explained to them things concerning itself in all scripture and they approached the village where they were going and he acted as though he were

Going further, but they urged him saying stay with us. He's getting toward evening So we stay with him when he had reclined table

He took the bread and blessed it and breaking it He began giving it to them their eyes were open and they recognized him and he vanished from their sight

They said to one another We're not our hearts burning within us while he was speaking to us on the road and explaining the scriptures to us

Wasn't our hearts burning within us when he explained to us the scripture

Now, that's the Holy Spirit leading guiding and directing What we emote?

Yep, and The same thing can happen When we sing as well

Yeah was it that The Jesus said he said it's not

What it's not the external things that defile you. It's what comes from within that defiles you likewise

We are not made Virtuous habits don't make us holy

They just make us Externally virtuous what makes us holy is the blood of Christ.

Mm -hmm Christ Working in us were made holy from the inside out because we have

Christ living in us, right? right well Dan we have went an hour and we have you've given some really good information

Folks like me and other people that that may be watching you're listening I'm concerning the regular principle and Maybe you never heard of that Terminology the regulative normative principles of worship maybe the only the only worship you've ever heard of is the the kind you do at 11 o 'clock on Sundays and Whatever happens is

What's always happened since great -great -grandma's, you know been going to church there

And it's the same thing that still happens today Here's here's something to think about here's something to chew on regulative versus normative principles

Doesn't come from Scripture be a Berean check it out. Search the scriptures. See if it see if it's true see

Give it give it a shot See what the Holy Spirit does through you like he did with the gentleman on the road to Emmaus yield to him and Just let it be

In my mind, I'm thinking is Jesus enough is his word enough and if if it is

Let it be and then let the Holy Spirit League on a direct my emotions

No, and And I think we will be but much better all Letting the

Holy Spirit lead on and direct our emotions Our our worship let the

Bible direct our worship because it's from God it's God's Word and the only way that we can

Please God We're talking about worship. It won't please God in worship. But the only way that we can please

God in any form or fashion is Through his son Jesus Christ whom he sent

To dwell among us. He put on flesh. He was sent from heaven He has always existed, but he was sent from heaven at the appointed time at the right time at just the right time

To live a life that we couldn't live. He fulfilled all the prophecies about himself about the Messiah in the

Old Testament and Kept all the laws did it perfectly like no one else could or ever will and So therefore it made him as Dan talked about earlier the

Only perfect acceptable lamb that could be sacrificed

Christ is so holy that his sacrifice can cover and Vanquish remove the wrath of God From all who would repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

That's how holy that's how Worthy and acceptable the blood of Christ is and we just celebrated his death burial and resurrection this weekend

And we want to celebrate it every weekend Every moment of the day we we rest in Christ.

We celebrate it collectively on on Sunday we we worship together and we want to continue to do that because We have repented our sins put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

God has made us born again Made us new creatures because he's given us his

Holy Spirit who lives inside of us who can give us that Understanding of Scripture who can give us that burning of emotion filled with joy and gladness that Dan was talking about That that we could have never known had never we've never had it before Apart from the

Holy Spirit living within us. And so we would encourage you tonight, please repent of your sins put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and the the getting together with family the bunny the eggs

It was fun this weekend. It may be fun next year if you're still around, but it's totally meaningless

If you spend an eternity in hell apart from Christ if if that's the direction of you and your family and The only thing that you celebrate in holidays is yourselves

Yes, it may be fun you may love your family, but if you love your family lead them to Christ and so We thank you for watching

We'll leave you with that and we pray and trust and hope the Lord will lead you and and call you to himself

Then would you close us in prayer? Sure Dear Heavenly Father. Thank you for your goodness for your grace for speaking to us in your word

We pray that we would all be drawn to it more be drawn to you that we would know you That you would make yourself known

Pray these things in Christ's name. Amen. Amen. Thank you again for watching. We appreciate it

So very much continue to pray for us Come see us at the end of April and Reverend water

Babbage Church in Knoxville, Tennessee Go register online labors conference comm Remember that Jesus is

King go live in the victory of Christ Go speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ.