Calvinism Objectors

Approaching Calvinism Objections with Concern and Respect

Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the Saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the.

Podcast. Thank you. I'm Dylan Hamilton and with me are Michael Durham, David Kassin, and Andrew Hudson. We have another pair of questions that we thought would pair well together and we wanted to tackle them one by one so we'll start with the first one.

The question reads, how do you approach friends and family who want to argue because you're a Calvinist? Is it okay to divide over the issue? Michael. So one of the things that happens is that friends and family are going to object to their understanding of Calvinism.

That's a good way of putting it. And you're going to be hard-pressed to get somebody who dislikes Calvinism to listen to your educational offerings on Calvinism. They're probably unsolicited. Yeah. They're like, they don't want to learn about it.

They just don't like the fact that you believe it and that you believing this and thinking those thoughts within their radar bothers them. Or perhaps when you say things, no matter what you say, it comes out with a Calvinist accent because they know you're Calvinist.

So I bet I know what they mean by that, you know, and there's a concern. So not much headway usually on trying to educate someone on Calvinism. Though the joke I think still stands that if seminary is too expensive just go find a Calvinist and start arguing with them and you will learn whatever you need to know about systematic theology.

This is why I am at where I'm at right now. Marketplace disciple. So in that sense the Calvinists do have a reputation of saying, you know, let me explain this to you. And so you can learn you can learn a whole bunch of information for free.

So keep that in mind. But the friend or the family member who has an objection against Calvinism has it for some reason. So it's far more profitable and I think probably a more biblical approach to show concern for their concern.

To consider others interests as more important than your own. Okay. And so the why of their objection. Yes. What concerns you? What concerns you? And in general it may be a concern about evangelism. I have a concern for lost souls.

If I believe like Calvinists believed, then I wouldn't be praying for and laboring for my grandson. And it kind of ticks me off that you are not passionate about the lost family members in your life and you call yourself a Christian.

But they have a caricature of Calvinism in their head and that's causing a concern. And so then they're responding to that concern. Maybe it's not the evangelism thing. Maybe it is concern. Are you trying to say that all of our actions are pre-planned and we don't have any control over them whatsoever?

And so you're just trying to find a way of saying I can't help myself. Whatever I do God made me do it. It's a worse version than the devil made me do it. It's God made me do it which turns God into the devil.

And so then they object to that caricature of Calvinism. They may have been very offended or annoyed by Calvinists in the past. Thus when they find out you're of that tribe, this is very bothersome to them.

But what is it? It could be any number of these things. And so in general if we can discover the concern and begin to speak to that concern and see can we agree biblically about your concern. And if you're agreeing with me about laborers for the harvest, if you're agreeing with me about how we are to pursue righteousness for the glory of God, if you're agreeing with me about how to to teach and rebuke with all long-suffering and to give preference to one another.

And if we're agreeing with all of that then what was.

Your concern? You see? Yeah. So you have people who believe very passionately on either side of these you know this issue and and then that's not going to change anytime soon. But I think your advice is helpful to someone especially if they've newly discovered this.

I mean the joke is the cage stage Calvinistism when they first discover it lock them in a cage because they're dangerous. And you got to let them calm down after a while because all they want to do is talk about it because they feel like this has been hidden from them for so long.

I'm reminded of as you'd said you know be kind you know out doing one another and showing honor or treating one another is more important than yourself. You're referencing Colossians, referencing Corinthians and Philippians.

Colossians also says in chapter 4 verse 5 says walk in wisdom towards outsiders making the best use of your time. Let your speech always be gracious seasoned with salt so that you may know how to how you ought to answer each person.

And he's talking specifically you know people who are outside the church and how should you speak to them? Well these are not your brothers and sisters. In fact these are haters of Christ and you're supposed to be gracious but seasoned with salt.

I mean you still it's still the truth is still the truth that you may know how to answer each person. How much more should your speech be gracious and kind to your brothers and sisters? You know do good to all people but especially those of the household of faith.

In my case I have a mentor really someone I greatly respect and and love and they are he and I are on different sides on this issue. There's also an element of deference, respect to this person and that goes a long way.

You're not going necessarily convince them of your position just be the strength of your argument but being winsome can go a long way. They can you'll at least have a hearing. You can at least exchange things with them and you may have some really good fellowship as a result even if you end up not agreeing.

But there's how do you deal with difficult family members? Well first of all don't be the difficult family member. Don't be the one causing that causing the problems. Try to tamp that stuff down. Try to be you know put a little bit of water on that fire without compromising on the truth.

If you can.

Convert somebody else in the family to Calvinism and let them go at it cage stage then eventually it'll get back to like what you taught them this and then you can be all be the winsome sage stage Calvinist.

Good cop bad cop. I love it. Yeah and then and then you could like you're playing chess. Yeah well we're playing checkers. You think it works out that way but what usually happens in a household is it especially if it's like the elder brother and they they get the younger brother.

The younger brother comes and does it. You just pull this example out of a hat? Well yes I wouldn't know anybody that knows any has any experience with this but then it's just like anything else. They come to you because of what the younger brother's done and said you see what you taught them?

They learned that from you. They jumped off the bed because of you. No it doesn't always work out that way sadly. All right well that was just a theory anyway. But I think what what Dave's talking about too when one of the things we could be helped out with because the question is specifically about family members.

Yeah or friends yeah. Yeah or friends. Remember that you're talking to family members. You are not in a formal debate setting. You are you're not dealing with most of the time you're not dealing with the militant atheists that have set up the conference room for all their friends to come and try and do a beat down on you.

This is a different battleground and it's it's not something that's set up for those type of rhetorics. I think one of my early mistakes especially dealing with my brothers is I was employing rhetorics that I was seeing in formal debates with militant atheists to him and at that point he wasn't a believer but he wasn't militant toward me.

He became militant after I was started using that type of rhetoric right and I slowly learned the Lord worked on me. I slowly learned to pare it back but going right into it we're talking about not being the difficult family member.

It's understanding at the outset that this is actually a family member and they're of your own kin, your own blood. There are things that you share that you don't share with the the guy just out of one of his anthropology classes.

You know this isn't open-air preaching where we've got to deal with open animus of that kind. He's still your brother, they're still your sister, deal with them in that way. I think that's another cautious step to take too.

Yeah and the follow-up is there is it okay to divide over this issue? Right. And I don't think you should be dividing from people over this issue. If they're trying to divide from you it's probably because of a lot of factors not actually relating to the doctrine itself.

Right. Bad past experiences, poor understanding, you know but we're trying to reach what is your concern. I remember sitting down with a church member who was very against Calvinism and I was preaching through the scriptures and there's no safe verse in the Bible.

As I'm preaching through and I knew he'd have trouble. He'd have trouble because I had to come across key terms and everything and I had to preach what was there. I got done. I went over and I sat down to him.

I sat right next to him right away. I knew he'd be but what we did on that occasion I tried to help him see that it really wasn't about his concern really shouldn't be about you know the predestination and election, the limited atonement, irresistible grace and all this.

I said you know I think the problem is way bigger than this and I began talking about and commiserating with him about a bigger issue that God is all-knowing and all-powerful. He's the creator and he made millions if not billions of people knowing that they would not hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and turn to him to be saved.

Right. Let's commiserate about that together. Yeah and share to.

Humanity who doesn't want others saved. You know this is to me this is like a.

Bigger issue more broadly expressed, more fundamental than the details about how grace alone actually gets fleshed out. And it's dealing with one of the straw man's right like most the time that's the straw man is you just want to be the frozen chosen you don't care if anybody else gets saved.

That's right. But if you if you actually show a heart for those who do not know the Lord that kind of dispels one of those straw men right off the bat. Yeah and so we could we could sit there and commiserate together about that and of course this is again addressing those concerns that lie behind the objections you know and you just you just never know what you might be confronted with some zany objection or so on but there was one that was actually paired with this one where people are going to be looking in the passage passages the key texts where they know Calvinists like to quote from and go to and sometimes they'll bring some objections from those texts themselves and say this isn't about what you think it's about right Calvin and all of them got it wrong and you have it wrong.

Ephesians 1 and Whether “Chosen” Means Jews Only

So we have a follow-up question on this and it says what do you make of the claim that things such as predestination or slash chosen people and spiritual blessings in Ephesians are referencing Jews only and not Gentiles?

So Dylan maybe like read some parts of Ephesians 1 here and let's take a listen. You want me to start at 3 probably? Yeah go for it. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing and the heavenly places in Christ just as he chose us and him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will to the praise of the glory of his grace by which he made us accepted and the beloved in him we have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence having made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself then in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth in him.

Okay now it's difficult to detect anything in that passage that indicates that God's choosing, his election, his foreknowledge, his blessing, his sovereign arranging of salvation is for the Jew only and not for the Greek.

It's really hard to detect anything there so why would someone propose that? And I think it comes from some other passages that are being used to try to frame this passage in a way that would get God off the hook of being so choosy, right, of being so sovereign over salvation and leaving that all-important idea of salvation squarely in the decision-making capabilities of the sinner himself or herself so that when they're saved this wasn't some sort of puppet job.

But again I'm using basic caricatures and straw men that often are the concern of those who oppose Calvinism. Now the term chosen or the term elect which again is going to be a translation of or a synonym of chosen.

The Greek word for the elect is going to gloss the Hebrew word for chosen that we see in the Old Testament. We're going to find these terms used in both sides. Now when we go back to the Old Testament we read about the people of Israel in Deuteronomy 7 verse 6, for you are a holy people to the Lord your God.

The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 14 2, for you are a holy people to the Lord your God. The Lord has chosen you to be a people for himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

And so having read this in the Old Testament that God chose Israel then this term of chosen, this idea of elect someone says well that that's obviously referring to Israel. They're God's chosen people.

Doesn't everybody know that? Israel is God's chosen people. It says it again and again in the Old Testament. Therefore when we come to the New Testament if we see something about God's chosen people then we must understand that is still talking about ethnic Israel, the physical ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Now the benefit of choosing that particular approach is that in the Old Covenant the chosen people of God were not all of them born again, saved, going to heaven, and so on. And I think that the person who is using this approach would readily agree with that because this makes election or a chosen group of people not definitive about someone's salvation.

It's definitive in terms of an identity, you have a responsibility towards God, you have special blessings from God, and that of course is God's prerogative. But he's not going to, and he doesn't, tread upon that sacred ground of your will making you be saved.

So any idea of chosen and election is simply about this group of special people, God's chosen people, Israel. Group not person. Right, so this is an example of taking a word, a term, an idea in Scripture and interpreting it with Scripture.

Okay, you're using Scripture to interpret Scripture, however, context is king. When we read this passage, Ephesians 1, in connection with Ephesians 2, there is nothing here about that. In fact, this is talking about the realities that have come to light in the New Covenant and talking about something greater and grander than the shadow that in Christ the saved, the blessed, the born-again, those sealed with the Spirit, those who make up the church, are both Jew and Gentile, and they were chosen by God, for ordained by God, selected by God, to be saved in Christ.

If you want to use.

Scripture to interpret Scripture, I mean, I get what they're trying to do. I mean, at least they're using our own words against us or not. I mean, the analogy of Scripture, you do use Scripture to interpret Scripture, but they're using the Old Testament to interpret the New, while we would say that you'd want to use the New Testament to interpret the Old.

I mean, 1 Peter 2 .9 actually uses those words. It says, but you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession. So he takes those same words out of the Old Testament and Peter applies it to the people under the New Covenant.

And I.

Agree with that, but the folks that would read Jews only in Ephesians 1 would look at the beginning of 1 Peter chapter 1 and they would read that as an address to Jews only. The Diaspora can't refer to Christians being scattered by the persecution that we read about in Acts 8.

This has to be... They're excluding that. The first time that that idea of scattered people was used was of the Jews. Sure. So we can't use it of the church, it belongs to the Jews only. So this particular way of interpreting the scriptures is one in which, again, it's not in agreement with how the scriptures interpret themselves, because we have many passages, 2 Corinthians 3, Luke 24, examples of the preaching in the in the book of Acts, whether Acts 2 or Acts 7, Acts 13, and so on.

We have clear evidence that the Old Testament must be read in the light of the finished work of Jesus Christ for there to be proper understanding of what goes on. If they're basing it mostly off of Ephesians 1, that reading kind of forces them to cherry-pick, too, out of that passage itself.

They talk about the blessings, and the spiritual blessings, and chosen before the foundation of the world, that that belongs to the Jews, but he continues with other things. He continues in saying that we have redemption through his blood.

Is that for Jews only, or is it also for Gentiles? He says we obtain an inheritance. Is that for Jews only, or is that also for Gentiles? So it kind of hems you in if you don't... There will be some cherry-picking.

Now, they would be probably clearly quick to say, this is affirming what is true for the Jews, not denying salvation to the Gentiles. That is chapter 2, and they'll be just fine with that mystery of the church that was completely hidden and absent and non-existent in the Old Testament, from their perspective.

So, the other side that would try to bring in reinforcements for this interpretation of Ephesians 1, of being Jews only, is the history of how the church in Ephesus got started. When you read in the book of Acts how the church was planted in Ephesus, you find folks like Aquila, Priscilla, Apollos, disciples of John the Baptist.

Jewish people. Very Jewish people. And Paul, preaching in the synagogue, and so well-received at the first, preaching in the synagogue, saying, please, Paul, stay with us. He's like, no, I gotta go to Jerusalem.

And then Apollos going and preaching in the synagogue, and that went well. And then Paul comes back to Ephesus, he's preaching in the synagogue again, until such time as it doesn't work out, and then it says he withdrew the disciples from the synagogue and was reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.

So, from by all evidences, it looks like this church is extremely Jewish, has a lot of Jews in it. Now, there's nothing there that it says it was exclusively Jews, and there's nothing there that says that this letter is the letter to the church in Ephesus, by the way, right?

Because we don't have actually any address to, right, we don't have, we have the saints who are in Ephesus, yes. The saints who are in Ephesus, I was thinking of another story, but it was this letter is to those who are in Ephesus, but we're not told that the people in Ephesus are only Jews, is the point.

Well, this also is a textual.

Variant, they're in Ephesus for manuscript traditions. So, yeah, so they're starting to delve really into this one. So, it depends on your manuscript tradition,.

Whether you have, these are in Ephesus, or maybe this is the letter to the church in Laodicea that Paul mentions elsewhere. But speculation is not going to win the day here. When we read the book for ourselves out loud, we discover Paul is addressing Jew-Gentile relations in a very deep way.

The idea from Ephesus that you get is that there are Jews and Gentiles here, and Paul is telling them how to get along and how to love one another. And even when he appeals to holiness, when he appeals to righteousness, when he appeals to living towards one another in the way that they ought to, all the way through chapter 4, he never appeals to the law.

So, I think it's very significant, given the full reading of the letter, that this is not an exclusively Jewish book. Now, I'll.

Tell you right now, when we read this question, I had never heard this particular view of Ephesians. I mean, you go to chapter 2, and he actually references, you know, and remember that at one time, you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision, you know, talks about that, and they talked about how they were reconciled, and everybody's brought together in Christ, you know, they're parts of the covenants of promise, and all these things, you know, bringing them together, new man.

That's what I thought Ephesians was about. I mean, when I hear different, you know, chosen groups, chosen tribes, I'm thinking Romans 9. You know, that's the one that usually people go to, where it says, you know, Jacob and Esau.

It says, well, those are tribes, not individuals. You know, that's usually the one. I never have I heard this particular objection, or this particular view of the book of Ephesians.

I did when I was in college, because they were a Wesleyan Arminian tradition, and they were so anti-anything sovereignty of God whatsoever, that in our inductive Bible study classes that we went through, and you had to like study whole books of the Bible, and use the inductive Bible study method to go through them.

In Romans, we went chapters 1 through 8, we skipped 9 through 11, and went back to our inductive Bible study in chapters 12 and following. Redacted. Yeah, just straight up, we're not going to do, we're not going to even study those passages.

To be honest, that was my experience growing up in a Southern Baptist Church as well. It just wasn't talked about, strangely enough. That had.

The reverse effect, and made us all very, very curious. Yeah, the best way to get people to read something, a psalm, they're not allowed to read it, or don't read it.

Yeah. Have you watched Inception? I've never seen it. Okay, that's, there's a theme, the idea of like implanting ideas, like, hey, don't, don't think about this. Now you're thinking about that. Don't look at the guy behind the curtain over.

Here. Nothing to see here. Yeah, so I think that at the end of the day, how do we respond to objections, or concerns, or who want to argue, and so on? You can address them. What are your concerns? What can we agree on?

If they point to something in the Bible, I'd love to read the Bible with you. Let's, you know, let's see what's there, and it's come together at that same table. So you don't divide.

Over it, but I do think you have to be patient about it. Most people will agree, if you start from a position of, let's read the Bible for ourselves. It's authoritative. Yes, I agree. Scripture should interpret Scripture.

Yes, but then you will start to diverge, if you have particular traditions that take Old Testament in isolation, versus New Testament. They don't allow the New Testament to interpret the Old, or later Revelation, and the Old Testament to interpret earlier.

So you may, you may have to work to figure out if they're, if they're operating assumptions are different than yours. But you can at least have the same starting point, that the the Bible is authoritative and true, and it shows them respect for, it shows respect at least for their their view that they love the Bible, and that they love Jesus, and you can at least agree upon that.

Starting point. Yeah, I guess a good analogy would be that if someone's complaining about your driving, because you're driving reckless and fast, and in their perspective, okay, it would be good first to, you know, make sure that they're buckled up, and then find a way to slow down gradually, right?

Meet them where they're at. Okay, the only way to divide is if you slam on the brakes real fast, they're not wearing the seat belt, they will be divided from you. Okay, so you find a way to care for the person, to love the person.

You're not going to solve a lot of these questions and concerns in a night, and there may, there may not be any agreement, but there may be improved understanding, and there might be an improvement of relationships through the course of it.

Yeah, that makes me think of one of our family members on Heather's side, and he's a guy that just likes to, to spar, right? So it's actually made me more endeared to him, and him to me, just because I'm, I'm willing to sit down and talk to him for, you know, his three or four hour sparring sessions that he likes to do, and nobody else wants to do them anymore.

He's an unbeliever. He doesn't agree on hardly any of this stuff, but he grew up with it, so he's able to argue it, and he understands it, I think, to a certain degree, that makes it a little more challenging than somebody who's just got straw men in their head, but he, he realizes, hey, this is somebody who, who's willing to put the gloves on and go at it for a little while, and then say, all right, good night, see you later.

So sometimes you have the guys like that in your family, too, that you got to be, you got to, you really just have to be aware of who you're dealing with most of time when we get in these discussions, because it can go sideways quick, but it could also be very, very productive, very fruitful as well.

Recommended Reading on Romans 9 and Ecclesiastes

Good. All right, why don't we move on to what we recommend, Michael? I recommend an exegetical and theological study of Romans 9, 1 through 23. Now, that's just the subtitle, so this is a, you know, it's not exactly a Puritan work, but the title is The Justification of God, second edition by John Piper.

This one was written way back, 93, back in the 1900s, so I don't, you know, you might, it might be so old, it might be in the public domain now, folks, so I hope you can find it. The Justification of God goes through chapter 9 and goes into very careful detail all the way through, showing the connections, answering objections, working through the implications, and it's, it's a great read.

It's, it's, and it's also a good exercise in seeing the kinds of questions and the kinds of approaches you should take to Scripture.

And being very careful and thinking things through. I think that was, did that start off as a thesis? Yeah. Of his? Okay. It's been made more robust and so on and.

So forth, so, and usually, usually, the second edition is always better, you know, second edition, Kingdom and Covenant by Gentry and Wellam, better than the first.

Edition. This one, second edition, it's pretty good. Dave? All right, this is a book on Ecclesiastes by Brian Borgman. I have been enjoying this book for several weeks, and I have been using it in my family's study of Ecclesiastes that we have been going through.

Just, you know, when I'm gone, some people will be able to read a chapter. We don't do it every night, but a couple of times a week, we have a, we're reading a chapter of Ecclesiastes together, and this book is called Don't Waste Your Breath, Ecclesiastes and the Joy of a Fleeting Life.

The word that's translated vanity or meaninglessness in some translations could be better translated, the Hebrew word is habel, or habel, could also be mist, vapor, or breath. And you start to read it in that context, now it has elements of emptiness, worthlessness, this word, like it talks about vain idols.

Sure, it's not just short, it's not just vaporous, it's compared to the glory of God, which is quite weighty, these are very light. But when you understand that this word has a little bit, has a different context, Ecclesiastes truly takes on a different meaning.

It is a verse-by-verse exposition, at least paragraph-by-paragraph, and he highlights the real issues that a man who is observing humanity sees, and things he's seen in his own life, and perhaps in his own family.

And then he says, in almost every chapter, and this is why you should enjoy this short life. There are things you're going to see that are confusing, there are things you're going to see that don't make sense.

And he establishes very clearly, in chapter 3, the sovereignty of God over all things. That God has appointed a time for this, and for this, and for this. And he can rest in that. But he wanted to read one bit out of Ecclesiastes, especially since it's some of the things we've been talking about tonight.

This is out of chapter 8, verse 14, Ecclesiastes. There is a vanity that takes place on the earth, so there's righteous people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the wicked. And there are wicked people to whom it happens according to the deeds of the righteous.

I say this is also vanity. Meaning, you're going to see this in your short life. I have seen it. So, I commend joy. For man has nothing better under the sun but to eat and to drink and be joyful. For this will go with him in his toil through the days of his life that God has given him under the sun.

And you see him returning to these themes. He knows that the wisdom is good, but there are limits to it. He's seen that, yes, you should obey your rulers, but sometimes those rulers are evil. Yes, the righteous living well and taking care of your family and being wise, yes, you should have a better, more prosperous life.

That's as normal common sense. I mean, Ecclesiastes is filled with common sense, as you would expect from Solomon the preacher. But things don't always work out the way you want them to. And you can rest knowing that God is in control.

And even if there is a wicked ruler, this life is short. Even if you have these difficulties, don't worry, life is short. But also, enjoy your meal. Enjoy your bread. Drink your wine. Enjoy your life with your wife.

It actually says that in the next chapter. Enjoy that because this life is short and when it is over, it is over. So, don't waste your life. Don't waste your breath. By Brian Borgman, Ecclesiastes and the Joy of a.

Fleeting Life. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Awesome. Thank you. Andrew? I was asked a.

While back, what are some content that I could enjoy with my family? At that time, I gave a recommendation. There's a YouTube channel by a guy named Joel Kramer, Expedition Bible. This guy grew up in the Middle East and he's a quote-unquote biblical archaeologist.

He has a book. I'm not gonna pitch the book, but on his YouTube channel, he goes around the Middle East looking at biblical sites and discussing the historicity and authenticity and the attestation of the veracity of what the Word of God says actually happened.

We can uncover these things. Recently, we watched the video of Peniel where Jacob wrestled with God. In the Sunday school class that I was teaching, we had just gone over that passage. I think sometimes people learn different ways.

Some of those ways are seeing pictures of where this is, not just reading it on a text or even necessarily looking at a map. Maps are great, but the topography of the river and the two sides of the river, how there was this large place, a vantage point to see the north, the advancing from the northwest of Esau and his men.

These things are often lost in just reading. The Bible is rich and I think what he does a.

Great job with is bringing it to life. That's a great recommendation. I like that a lot. My recommendation for this week is a book called The West of the Imagination. It is a book that categorizes from the birth of our nation up to Manifest Destiny and the expansion west.

It takes the prominent artists who those days of each in that time period and how they would go out as civilization moved west and they would paint depictions of that West. A few of the artists that were featured are George Catlin, Albert Bierstadt, Frederick Remington.

Toward the end of this time period, he wasn't featured in the book, but Julian Anderdonk. He's a Texas artist and he does blue bonnet fields and stuff like that. It's in a similar vein, but Bierstadt's like he's the dude.

Remington for me holds a special place because he's a cowboy painter. He has all these scenes of famous battles or cowboys chasing down buffaloes. The movement of his stuff is just wild. It's one thing Heather and I have talked about.

There's just tons of movement with it and we've actually incorporated. We have a digital picture frame up on our wall, so we have a lot of stuff of our family, like videos and pictures and stuff like that.

But then she was like, we should put like Bierstadt's stuff up there, like John Constable's stuff. I was like, yes! So we've been adding that stuff as we come across some of that and Anderdonk as well.

But that book, it has some analysis of the period, like what was done wrong, what was done right. I don't really listen to any of that and this is literally me going through a book for the pictures. I don't do that very often at all, but this is great.

This is me judging the book by its cover and going only to the pictures. It is a picture book for Dylan Hamilton, but it's the one that I have. It was a copy that was given to me by a man who died was a friend, but it's a beautiful orange cloth cover book.

So I have it on display up in the living room because it's just like it's got like the gold lettering on the spine and it's the orange cloth cover and I'm just like, yes, that's going next to the the green and the red.