October 23, 2020 Show with Dr. Tim Clarey on “Carved in Stone: Geologic Evidence of the Worldwide Flood”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth, who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 23rd day of October 2020.

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I'm thrilled to have as a first -time guest on this program Dr. Tim Clary, who received a

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Master of Science in Geology from the University of Wyoming, a Master of Science in Hydrogeology from Western Michigan University, and a

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PhD in Geology from Western Michigan University, who worked as an

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Exploration Geologist at Chevron USA, Inc., from 1984 to 1992, developing oil drilling prospects and analyzing assets and lease purchases, and was full professor and Geosciences Chair at Delta College in Michigan for 17 years before leaving in 2013 to join the science staff at the

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Institute for Creation Research. Having earlier conducted research with ICR in its

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FAST program, F -A -S -T, and has published many papers on various aspects of the

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Rocky Mountains, and has authored two college laboratory books, and is the author of Dinosaurs, Marvel of God's Design, and a contributor to the

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Guide to Dinosaurs and Creation Basics and Beyond. Today he's going to be addressing his latest book,

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Carved in Stone, Geologic Evidence of the Worldwide Flood, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Dr.

02:59

Tim Clary. Thank you Chris, it's a pleasure to be here. Really, really, really great to get a chance to give this talk about the research that I'm doing.

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I'm really excited about the results of that book and what it can present to the creation community.

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Well, first of all, tell our listeners about ICR, otherwise known as the Institute for Creation Research.

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Well, the Institute for Creation Research was founded by Dr. Henry Morris about 50 years ago this year.

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It was in California for 35 years or so of its life, and then it's been in Dallas now for about the last 15 years.

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And as you mentioned, I joined ICR about 7 or almost 8 years ago now, and I've been conducting research on the geology of the sediments across the continent ever since.

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But ICR has been known as the kind of scientific group,

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I guess, of the major creation groups out there. ICR has always been the one, I think, that deals the deepest end of science, and where many of our scientists are doing research on different aspects from genetics to the geology that I'm doing, to biology, new ways to do and understand biology like our

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CEO does, Randy Galuta, he's working on what's called Continuous Environmental Tracking, showing that there's a lot of the

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DNA that got built into the animals to allow a lot of this diversity that we see. So we're doing a lot of brand new research, and we're trying to get that out there in our publications and our talks.

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Great. Well, if anybody wants more information on the Institute of Creation Research, you just have to go to their website, icr .org,

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icr .org. Well, as I always do on this program, we have a tradition when we have a first -time guest that that guest gives a summary of his or her salvation testimony, including what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to Himself to save you.

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So if you could begin with your summary of your testimony. Okay, well, I grew up in a

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Baptist church in Michigan. Some of you may think I have an accent, I'm not sure. But I accepted

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Christ when I was about eight years old, almost eight years old. I had a vacation to Bible school one year. Since that time,

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I continued to go to the Baptist church throughout my high school years. And I actually read a lot of the books that were coming out from Dr.

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Henry Morris. And that kind of kept me and my brothers, I have three older brothers, we all kind of took turns reading the

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Genesis flood by Wickham and Morris. And that really kept us in tune with the young earth creationists, their ideas that there's evidence, scientific evidence for a young earth, just like the

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Bible said. So when he established ICR, Henry Morris, he wanted to show that science confirms exactly what the

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Bible says. And I kind of kept it going. But I had my ups and downs in my Christian life, going to school.

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I got a master's at Wyoming, as you mentioned, and then I went off to a little gas business for about eight and a half years.

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And I remained a young earth creationist. I got to hear Dwayne Gish speak a few times, who was a colleague of Henry Morris, back in Kalamazoo when

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I was going to school as an undergrad. And then when I went back for my PhD. But I have to regretfully admit

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I've had my ups and downs where the secular world has a draw. And fortunately,

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God brought me back. He's given me second and third chances. And even the opportunity to get a

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PhD, I never would have gone back. But I got laid off because oil prices crashed. And I believe that was

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God's hand that kind of forced me to go back and get my PhD. And that's why I went into academia for a while, started teaching about dinosaurs and things that eventually

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I'm now giving talks on and explaining to people how dinosaurs fit in the biblical record and how dinosaurs, you know, were

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God's creation and they're marvelous creatures. And even how they fit into the flood record, which is what

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I'm working on now. But eventually, God did bring me here through in spite of my past and things that I've done to ICR.

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And I'm now trying to do what I can in the time that I have left. You know, God willing, I'll be here at least another decade or so and continue to show people that God's word is true, that the science really does back execute the

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Bible says there really was a global flood. I tell people all the time that God, you know, brought me through all of our struggles we have in our lives up and down.

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But ultimately, I see that his plan was for me to be here at ICR and to use a lot of the training that I had in oil and gas and the training that I had as, you know, teaching introductory class at the college level to kind of be able to bring that down to a level at least that's understandable by people that don't have a geology degree, for example.

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My latest book, Carbon Stone, has a lot of detailed geology in it, but I tried to show put introductory chapters in it to kind of introduce people to the topics and then kind of expand on those as I go out there and show them the data.

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What do the rocks really show? And the rocks really do show that global flood as you'll see. And then I finished the book with everything points to Christ.

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Christ was there at the creation. Christ was there at the judgment. You know, he offered himself as that sacrifice.

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God himself came to earth and, you know, died a horrific death on the cross to pay the price that we all should have paid, my life included.

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We all owe our salvation to Christ and he's our only hope. But he was also there to redeem us and to give us a plan.

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And that plan for me right now is to work here at ICR and get as much information out showing that the rocks really do confirm a global flood.

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I tell people I have the best job in the world because I get to tell people that God's word is true. The rocks really do cry out and show that there was a global flood that affected the entire earth.

08:49

Wow, that's a great allegory to use that verse for what you do. I didn't even ever think of the connection.

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Obviously, the Lord was initially speaking about the Gentiles, I believe.

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But I think it applies for what you do as well. I'm going to give our listeners our email address so that they can join the conversation with questions of their own.

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Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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And please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you're a scientist and you're starting to believe in a young earth or in intelligent design or in biblical creationism, whatever the case may be.

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And you don't want to draw identity to yourself yet at this point. But there are other reasons why you might be asking a personal and private matter, asking a question about a personal and private matter that would compel you to remain anonymous.

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And we will grant your request if that is the case. But if you're asking a general question on science, on geology specifically, on creationism, on the age of the earth, on the scriptures and what they teach about our topic, if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

10:30

Just out of curiosity, when you were talking about those struggles, those ups and downs you had as a believer, did any of them involve being enticed to give up the

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Christian side of science to be more appreciated and backed by the secular scientists who, as you know full well, discredit men such as yourself, especially those who are young earth creationists?

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They would even go as far as to say that all of us who believe in a young earth and believe in intelligent design, especially if that intelligent designer is

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God, the God of the scriptures, they very often portray us as buffoons and they might even go as far as call those in the scientific realm charlatans and so on.

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Was there any attraction to possibly make life easier for yourself and be appreciated more in the realm of academia in your field?

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Well, I think there's always that temptation. You're always being bombarded. Those of us at ICR, all my colleagues here and scientists, we all went to secular universities.

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And in geology in particular, you get bombarded with old earth, old earth, they teach these millions and billions of years as if they're actual facts.

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And you really can't question it. And it is easier just to kind of give in and become an old earth person.

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You can remain a Christian, be an old earth, but I think the Bible is clear that the earth is young.

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The earth is only about 6 ,000 years old based on the genealogy. And actually the science is now starting to show that.

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Maybe we can talk about that in this video program. But it was always tempting to kind of give in. I think in some ways

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I'm glad I didn't go to one of the top 10 research institutions in the country in some ways that brought me back to where I got my undergraduate degree at Western Michigan, which was a new

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PhD program. And it dealt a little more with hydrogeology and structural geology and the whole of rocks and things.

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And so I was able to, even though I had to talk the talk in some ways, I had to mention people who dated these rocks as so old and so old.

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I never really advocated those, but you had to mention those types of things in like your dissertation and some of the secular publications

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I've done. But I never really, I mean, there's a different language you almost have to use even if you're a creationist.

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But if you're, you know, you can generally pick up on, there were a few students when I was teaching at a public institution that picked up on that I was a younger creationist.

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They'd come up afterwards, some of the Christian students would come up and say, you believe in creation, don't you? And I would tell them yes, but I didn't, you know, make a big deal out of it in the classroom.

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And in academia, it's the same way. You have to remain kind of under the radar. And occasionally it gets out.

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When I was at the oil and gas companies, I talked to some of my colleagues about, you know, some of the evidence of a younger, and once they knew that I was a pretty good geologist, could find oil, they accepted me as, you know, a worthy colleague.

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But a lot of my comments that I get from people and things I see from stuff I publish, you know, they just, they try to dismiss me and say

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I'm not a scientist, I'm not this. And I talked about that in the first chapter of my book. Almost the very first day I signed on with ICR, a lot of my former professors, some of them just kind of think

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I went off the deep end, but others are very militant about it and basically say that I'm no longer a scientist.

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Even though I think I'm doing the best science I've ever done in my life, I'm following data, collecting data, making maps, you know, showing how the

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Earth's geology matches with the Bible, but I'm just really following the data the way science is supposed to be done.

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Too many people today do verification science where they're out there verifying what they already believe is true. You know, they believe evolution is the truth and they go out to try to prove it.

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They believe, you know, there's no global floods, they go out to try to prove just little local floods everywhere. When you really follow the data like I try to do, just let's start from scratch, let's just start plotting up the rock data across the continent, by continent, by continent, you really do see that there's a common story in every continent.

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They all do the same thing. And so really the evidence is there. And even my critics have written me, some old

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Earth Christians have called, you know, looked at my data, most of the people that are not

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Christians at all just kind of totally dismiss me as a non -scientist and don't even acknowledge my research at all.

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But even the old Earth guys, they say, well, we like your data, Tim, but we don't like your interpretation. But the problem is the data, to me there's no other interpretation, they've offered no alternatives when

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I show them the data, continent by continent by continent, to me it's quite clear, that's what I try to put in my book.

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I laid out the evidence on three continents in the book that, look, all these continents do the same thing. They all start out with minimal flooding early, and they all reach the same point of high flooding at the same time, and then they all go down, just like the

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Bible talks about. So I tie it actually into the Bible and show how the geology really does match exactly what is described in the book of Genesis 7 and 8.

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Well, we do have a... I'm sorry? Oh, go ahead. No, no, it was a great answer.

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We have John in Bangor, Maine who has a question for you. John in Bangor, Maine asks, why is it that secular scientists have such a hard time accepting the idea of a global flood?

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There is nothing that necessarily is uniquely Christian or even

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Jewish about that idea. It's just a scientific idea. So why is it so strongly opposed?

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Well, there's a couple of reasons, I think. One of them is when they first started coming up with the science of geology in about the latter part of the 18th century, 1790s,

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James Hutton came up with the idea of deep time, and millions of years even before they had the radioactive methods to try to prove that old time, you know, the great deep time, but they really haven't, and that's another story in itself.

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But I think there's people that actually wrote articles how they want to move us away from the idea of Noah's flood. They want to get away from the tying geology to the

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Bible. And so there was a goal that they really wanted to get away. And now, unfortunately, it's been taught so much for 100 years, 150 years, and particularly the last 50, 60 years, in schools, even in Christian schools, you know, they pretty much teach evolution as well, most of them.

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Not all of them. There's a few that are still teaching the truth. But most Christian schools even teach evolution.

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Many of them have walked away from the idea of a global flood because they don't want to, you know, that would destroy their story.

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They developed a story based on deep time and evolution. And so you have enough time, you can kind of argue that, well, anything can happen.

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And so things can evolve. That's kind of what they need. You can't take one or the other away. And unfortunately, if you flood everything, you're going to kill everything, and you'd have to start over again.

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Well, except for those animals that can survive in water. Right. Right. So you wouldn't have, you know, if you wiped everything out, like some of these so -called big extinction events they have, there's one at the

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Permian -Triassic that's supposed to have killed 95 % of species. They argued, you know, that killed everything, and things had to start over.

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But it didn't kill everything. And so they still had land animals still survived. And, you know, the whole evolutionary story goes right along.

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But it's really unfortunate when you think about it, because the fossil record doesn't even show anything evolving. It just shows new appearances of animals.

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And they're always mixed with marine animals. So even though you find T -Rexes in Montana, in that same rock layer you'll find six species of shark teeth.

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And you'll find clams from the marine realm. And all these different fossils. And everywhere I look, from India to Europe to South America, there's always articles found that I'm digging through looking for these geologic, you know, the rock columns, what

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I can put into my database, that shows mixing of land and marine, just what you'd expect. But yet they twist those stories around, even, and try to say, well, these fish must have been freshwater fish back then, because they were found with dinosaurs.

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Even though, like the coelacanth, for example, was found with Spinosaurus in Morocco. Coelacanth is a living fossil that was found in the 1930s, still alive in the

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Indian Ocean in a couple of locations, but it lives at 500 feet down. And it's in the ocean today, 500 feet down or deeper.

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And they're trying to argue that the exact same thing in the fossil record is found in Cretaceous rocks with Spinosaurus.

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So they said it must have been living in freshwater rivers at the time. Even though it's identical to what we see to life today.

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So, it's kind of like, what data do you want us to show you? You know, what would you accept when you have it right there in front of you?

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The living animal, the fossil, and yet what they make, they reinterpret it as how they want it to fit.

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And so it's very, very difficult to try to convince people of the global flood when they twist the data around to fit their own interpretations that they've got preconceived about it.

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But it started out even back in the 18th and 19th century that they wanted to get away from the idea of a global flood, of Noah's flood, and break geology free from the idea of catastrophism and, you know, the idea of actually, they actually said

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Noah's flood. So there's kind of a goal that they've had, and it isn't, you know, maybe every scientist isn't thinking about that, but they were back then, and they've pushed it away so far away that nobody even considers a global flood anymore.

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When you say nobody, are there any secular scientists who, even if it's just a few, that say, well, we at least see this as a plausible theory or anything like that?

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Well, if they are, they don't say much because they're afraid to lose their job. I was kind of one of those for a long time.

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I couldn't say much because I was at a public institution, and so I couldn't really publish stuff contrary to the accepted story.

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I could publish certain things that are both false, and how these things must have moved fast, and somewhat controversial things, but you can only say so much.

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So I imagine there are scientists out there, and there are, there's creationists out there, but they have to change their name sometimes to publish papers, and that still is going on.

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Today, actually, one of my colleagues here at ICR is a college student, and he's working to help me with a lot of these maps that came out in Carbonstone.

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We had to use a different name for him because we don't want to get his name out there. People can Google names now and find out too much information about people.

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So there's always a few people that will hold that against you, especially when you're trying to get a graduate degree where it's a little more subjective.

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It isn't just like passing a course. You've got to get your master's thesis accepted or your dissertation accepted.

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That's very, very subjective, and there are instances where people have been denied their degree because of their religious views and or creationism, and so we try to avoid that.

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That's something Dwayne Gish taught me way back when, when I was an undergrad. I got to hear him speak and ask him after a question when

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I was in Kalamazoo, and he said, just kind of lay low. Don't cause a lot of ruckus when you're going to school.

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You've got to learn it, and again, that's what all the guys at ICR did. We all went to secular schools, got our PhDs at secular institutions.

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We all had to hear it all, but the only way to get through that, I think, is to go in prepared. And I had with me the

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Henry Morris and John Whitcomb's book, The Genesis Flood, and today we have a lot of resources that we've put out.

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Other creation ministries put out good resources as well that if you take those with you and keep your grandson or your granddaughter or your son or your daughter or yourself armed with these types of resources, it keeps you kind of thinking, okay, there is scientific answers to many of these.

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In the creation world, there's not a lot of scientists working on research, but there's things we don't understand, but a lot of things we're now starting to see more and more an understanding in how it all fits into the global flood picture.

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Some people ask me questions about, well, how do you explain the salt? There's places like the Red Sea where there's 10 ,000 feet of salt that formed in one little small aspect.

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How do you get 10 ,000 feet of pure salt? Or the Gulf of Mexico, there's 5 ,000 feet of salt that makes most of the oil traps down there that we dug and looked for oil in that trapped the oil up against the planks of these salt domes and things.

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I don't have a good answer to that from a creationist point of view, but neither does the secular world.

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They have to say it's from evaporation of hundreds and hundreds of oceans over great periods of time.

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I don't believe that's the case because you'd get different minerals in there, not just pure salt. There's things out there we still don't understand.

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There's a lot of room for new research. If anybody's listening and they want to become a scientist, there's a lot of research ahead of us in the creation community where you do real science.

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We need a better understanding of certain things. Well, John in Bangor, Maine...

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No, no, that's fine. I mean, we have two hours, so I don't insist... I don't insist upon short answers by any stretch of the imagination.

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I prefer longer ones. The only time I'm annoyed by a long answer is when the guest, and this is a rarity, but the guest may start changing subjects without even giving me space for input or audience questions or something like that.

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But you're doing fine. John in Bangor, Maine, you have won a free copy of Carved in Stone, Geologic Evidence of the

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Worldwide Flood, written by our guest. This is a massive 500 -page hardback. You could use it as a lethal weapon if you wish if you're being physically attacked by secular scientists.

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But it is a gorgeous monumental work. And you have to give us your full mailing address because cvbbs .com,

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Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, is going to be shipping it out to you at no cost to you or to Allantrop &

24:35

Zion Radio. And we thank cvbbs .com for faithfully shipping out our listeners the books and Bibles and other things they win when they submit questions to our guests.

24:48

Let's see, we have an anonymous listener. The anonymous listener says,

24:53

I have many friends who are old earth creationists and they seem to think that your field specifically of science, geology, and probably a second runner -up would be astronomy, are the

25:10

Achilles' heel of young earth creationists with the least evidence to provide to back up your theories.

25:19

In fact, I was wondering how you would respond to a book that has been written by old earth creationists titled

25:28

The Grand Canyon, Monument to an Ancient Earth, Can Noah's Flood Explain the

25:33

Grand Canyon? And thank you anonymous. In fact, I had a program on Allantrop &

25:39

Zion Radio where we had pro and con. We had a debate of sorts between young earth and old earth creationists including some of the contributors to the

25:52

Grand Canyon book that he just mentioned. But if you could respond to that. Okay, well,

25:58

I've read a lot of that book as well, and I have written some responses on ICR's website and some of the articles

26:04

I've written, icr .org, to some of those things that they claim in that book which they try to...

26:10

I mean, some of it is like science, you argue almost like lawyers. You push up your side and you kind of downplay the other and they play that game a little bit in that book as well.

26:21

But I like the author. Most of the authors in there are pretty well -meaning people. They just are really set in their ways that they believe the old earth rocks are old and billions of years old and they've been taught that in school and they bought into it.

26:35

And they don't see the evidence. I talked to an old earth guy who works with these people.

26:41

I don't want to bring his name up but he's a retired professor from a college on the west coast. And he's one of the guys that said that I like your data but I don't like your interpretation.

26:48

But in my book, I actually summarize some of the evidence in geology. Not only of a global flood, which is new data which

26:57

I'm collecting and no one's done this, I don't think, in over 50 years. No one's ever spent 7 or 8 years of their life.

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And I've probably got about 2 or 3 more to finish the whole world. Then I'll have to update this book on the entire globe.

27:10

Today, I actually took time away. I'm working on China. I'm working on these areas of China and Asia, trying to get across Asia.

27:16

And I found out Asia's really, really big. So it's taking me more time than the other continents, obviously. But there's a lot of evidence in my book where I show that Earth is young.

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And one of the things that I bring up several different times and from different aspects is the idea that there are the original tissues found in dinosaur bones in the rocks.

27:32

Original dinosaur and other things. Things that supposedly are half a billion years old, they're still original worm proteins found in these rocks.

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In the earliest deposits of the flood and even before. How do they answer to that? Well, there is no acceptable answer.

27:52

They've been finding these since 2005. And then you look through the literature. My colleague at ICI here, Dr. Brian Thomas, has gone back and found discoveries back even years before that.

28:01

But they never made the news until Mary Schweitzer found the original proteins and collagen cells and osteocytes in a

28:08

T -Rex femur. So she dissolved way too much bone in 2005 to all these original tissues.

28:14

They're still soft and squishy. She tested them and tested them and tested them with high tech tests and found that these things are real.

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And she's not even a Christian, is she? I think she is.

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I think she was younger until she went to graduate school and she became older. So I don't know for sure.

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That's what I've heard. If any of the listeners out there know otherwise, we don't really know.

28:38

She doesn't talk about her faith. She's been vilified for this. She's been vilified for even publishing this.

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Even her advisor, Dr. Jack Horner, who was the guy I dug dinosaurs with back in 2000,

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I just didn't say much when I was learning a little bit more about dinosaurs and the excavation of them and things.

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He said, yeah, this is impossible to have these things. And you can watch the interviews. It's impossible to have these proteins.

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And some of the journals still will not publish any articles dealing with these. They don't want to admit that they're real.

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And if they do cover them now in some of the books, they'll say, well, these are chemical fossils and it wasn't that cool without them.

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But the whole idea is these things can't last millions of years. They can't last even a million years.

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You can't find proteins and Nazi cells and original collagens and chitin and all these different organic compounds.

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And in my book, I even talk about oil. Oil can't last millions of years. I was taught as an oil and gas geologist, oil is organic.

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It's the way it burns. It's mostly from marine algae buried rapidly in the flood. And so you have these big massive black shales that are source rocks made out of organic debris.

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Mostly organic debris buried in the flood. Marine algae. That becomes the source of oil.

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But oil can't last millions of years underground. In fact, the community can't explain that either. They just try to say, well, this area was somehow pasteurized and has remained that way for 150 million years.

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And I'm like, are you kidding me? Do you think about what you're saying? But the oil and gas industry gets away with it because they drill down there as oil.

30:13

And they say it's 100 million years old. The oil in Wyoming is supposed to be 150 million years old. You drill it just sitting there waiting for us?

30:20

You put gasoline in a gas can, put it in your garage for five years and then try to run your lawnmower around it, it probably will stall out.

30:28

Gasoline doesn't last long. Oil can't last long underground. Everywhere, and I talk about this in my book, everywhere we've drilled, there's bacteria.

30:36

Even way down deep, it just decays a little slower down there. Now, what is your answer?

30:41

Because I've heard that, you know, during the Ice Age or what have you, or just because things have been frozen, that that has preserved the flesh or anything else that's organic material.

30:57

How do you respond to that? Well, that's true. I mean, you get the Ice Age, you get these

31:02

Siberian mammoths and mastodons and things that are frozen and preserved in that regard. But those are supposed to be a lot younger in the secular timescale.

31:11

Yeah, even they believe that they coexisted with men, don't they? Right. Yeah, there's even a lot of evidence that they were, you know, there's spear points and arrow points and cuttings on the bones where the humans were obviously eating these animals and hunting them as well.

31:25

But we're talking about dinosaurs and things even before that, where they found original blood vessels and blood cells.

31:31

You know, these things can't exist. And there's another couple of things I talked about in my book is these subducted slabs.

31:38

We believe in a rapid plate movement called catastrophic plate tectonics, which my colleague and friend

31:44

John Baumgartner wrote about when he was at ICR. In fact, could you pick up right on that point when we return because we have to give our first break.

31:53

Okay. Just don't forget where you left off because I want to hear this. Okay. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com

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Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

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40:15

Thank you. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of I Am Serpent's Iron Radio.

40:22

And our guest is Dr. Tim Clary. We are discussing his new book, Carved in Stone, Geologic Evidence of the

40:30

Worldwide Flood. If you have questions, send them via email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

40:37

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. And by the way, our anonymous listener, if you could please provide us with your full name, full address, you will receive a free copy of this book as well.

40:49

Compliments of our friends at ICR, the Institute for Creation Research, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

40:58

who will be shipping out this massive, heavy book to you at no charge to you or to us.

41:06

And we thank you for your contribution of the excellent question. You were just about to talk about a colleague of yours, and if you could pick up where you left off.

41:20

Geologic evidence for a young earth, and I've already captured in the five -pound book, towards the end, chapter 19,

41:27

I think, talks about the evidence for a young earth from a geologic standpoint. One of them, of course, is all that original dinosaur soft tissue that is found in the fossils now, that original protein.

41:37

But just as important is the discovery with seismic tomography, which is kind of like collecting seismic data, imaging the earth's mantle.

41:45

As they image the earth's mantle, they see that there's subduction, or these ocean plates are being pushed underneath other continental masses, deep into the earth's mantle, all the way down to the core, 1 ,800 miles down, and they're still cold.

42:01

They're still as cold as the rocks that enter. And so my colleague, Dr. John Baumgartner, who used to work at ICR, now he's independently doing still -connected research, he did research on one of the government supercomputers when he worked for the government.

42:16

They allowed him to do this, and one of the most powerful computers in the world at the time, he was able to model runaway subduction, rapid plate movement.

42:24

So instead of the rates we see today of just a few centimeters or a few inches per year, he showed that during the flood, the conditions were such that you would get runaway subduction, where you would be several yards per second, or several miles per hour.

42:38

And so you could rapidly recreate the entire ocean surface in the year of the flood, and that caused a lot of problems.

42:44

But it should show then, cold slabs should be going down, these 60 -mile thick slabs. We see these as they shoot seismic data across these trenches in the ocean, they see that the subduction zones are still cold all the way down to the core.

42:59

Some of these go down 1 ,800 miles into the earth, and there's these cold blocks down there, which secular science can't really explain.

43:05

Why are these still cold? Well, the easiest answer is they went down there fast, just like John Bumgarner predicted in his sophisticated computer models, and showed that this really is the evidence that backs his theory.

43:18

And I've actually gone to Kodiak Island and collected rocks where there's an old subduction zone there that's exposed now after the flood, and you can see melted rocks, rocks that are about a foot thick, called pseudotachylate, which is pseudo means, you know, almost.

43:32

Tachylate's a type of volcanic rock, and these rocks form along fault zones where you move really, really fast. A lot of friction, so much friction that it melts the rocks, and it's the thickest in the world that's ever been discovered.

43:42

It's in this old subduction zone, so there's rock evidence of rapid movement of subduction plates. And as in the earth today, we can see all over the earth, when we image in the earth, the better we image in, the more we see these cold slabs that go all the way down.

43:55

If these were really millions of years old, those should have heated up by now. They should have melted and, you know, picked up the temperatures of the deep mantle, which are a thousand degrees

44:03

Celsius in temperature, but they're still as cold as almost the day they went down. And so there's really hard evidence, rock evidence, that the earth is young, that the flood was not that long ago, only about 4 ,500 years ago.

44:16

We see that in the earth itself. Secular scientists have no explanation for this, either, really.

44:22

They can't explain the presence of these soft tissues. They can't explain the presence of these deep subducted slabs.

44:29

They've been trying to say there's some sort of a phase change, but yet we don't see that at all. Dr. John Bungarner, I talked to him recently, he said there's really no explanation other than temperature, and the temperatures show these things are still cold.

44:41

So here we have, you know, fairly sophisticated evidence, and I talked about this in my book. It's hard to describe in the radio.

44:47

It's hard to describe my geology tie in the radio, too, that I'm wearing. But it's, you know, if you can see it in the book, in those chapters, you'll see there is a lot of evidence, scientific evidence, that shows that really in the young earth, you don't have to just believe your

44:59

Bible, you know, blindly. You don't have to just say, well, the Bible says the earth is young. It's young. There is scientific evidence to support that the flood was recent and the earth is young.

45:08

You could go on, there's other books written by my colleague, Dr. John Morris, all this evidence of a young earth as well that we sell at ICR called

45:15

It's a Young Earth After All, or It's a Young Earth, and he talks about the magnetic field, how it's decaying too rapidly to be, you know, the earth can't be even 10 ,000 years old.

45:24

You know, secular science says, well, that flip -flop reverses and strengthens again, but they've never seen that actually happen. They just see records in the rocks.

45:32

And so the secular world tries to have an out for all these different things, but they don't have an out for the subducted slabs.

45:38

They don't have an out, really, for the original tissues found in fossils. They just choose to ignore them.

45:45

And unfortunately, Dr. John Baumgartner's research, they found no flawed math, no flawed computer model.

45:51

They just choose to ignore what he's found. But if you go back about a hundred years or even less, no scientist believed the, except for one or two kind of rogue scientists that were on the fringe, nobody believed the place even moved.

46:06

They thought that was crazy. They would write in their books even through the 50s and early 60s. Late -day comics, they didn't even have that word, but they would say continental drift couldn't have happened because of this and this and this.

46:16

So not too long ago, scientists didn't believe the place didn't move at all. And now, they don't want to believe that they moved fast during that flood year, not that long ago.

46:24

So I don't know if we're making progress or not, but there's a lot of data to back up exactly what the

46:30

Bible says. Great. And we do have another question from Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia, who happens to be a very loyal and faithful listener to this program and also a very generous financial supporter of this program.

46:44

And Lou says, with the discovery of new fossils, do creation scientists like yourself have the same opportunity and time to examine and critique these findings as do the secular scientists?

47:00

And his second question is, also is the archaeoterics,

47:07

I don't know if I'm mispronouncing that or not, archaeoterics still held up as the poster child for undeniable proof of a transitional form by evolutionists and paleontologists?

47:20

That would distract me so much, I forgot the first question. Okay, with the discovery of new fossils, do creation scientists like yourself have the same opportunity?

47:29

Okay, you remember now? I got that one. No, we actually don't. I mean, most scientists, when they find things, they hold on to them, whether you're a creationist or not.

47:39

And particularly, if they knew we were creationists, they would slam the door shut on us. Many people have, you know, particularly it's bad in the world of anthropology, the discoveries of supposed human ancestors like Homo Naledi and things like that, which we don't think really were even possibly human, but we're not really sure.

47:58

It could be a mixture of things. And it's very difficult to get a hold of, you know, you're not allowed to really get in there and look at the data independently, look at these particular fossils independently.

48:07

We have to read the papers, like everybody else, and it's kind of a closed door community at times.

48:13

Even in paleontology, you know, you can get access to certain things, go to certain things, if you have the right credentials.

48:20

But if we tell them we're from the Institute for Creation Research, they generally slam the door. They don't want to, you know, they don't want to get involved in any of that sort of thing.

48:27

So it is difficult to get a hold of the first -hand fossils. You know, we can find our own fossils. We can find our own dinosaurs.

48:34

We can send samples off, which we've done in about two laboratories, through third parties, so they don't know it's us, but to get a hold of, you know, these new discoveries is difficult.

48:44

So we have to read the scientific papers and hope that they're telling the truth. The second question about Archaeopteryx.

48:52

Archaeopteryx is hailed as the first bird found in the fossil record. It's in the late Jurassic rocks, found in, there's about 11 or 12 of them now, found over in Germany, Bavaria, at the

49:02

Solnhofen limestone. And that's actually, you know, is the claim to be sort of a transitional fossil between dinosaurs and birds.

49:12

But it really, most people have analyzed this, even the secularists have analyzed this animal, looked at it, looked at it, looked at it, and they pretty much concluded it is a bird with a bony tail.

49:20

That's all it is, nothing more, nothing less. It has a few features that they argue are reptilian, but they're really not that unusual.

49:27

The claws and the wings are not that unusual. Teeth are not that unusual. There are some birds that have some teeth.

49:33

It's just a different type of extinct bird that they're finding plenty more of these in China. And unfortunately, many people are saying these are feathered dinosaurs, and they're mixing the whole matter around.

49:44

And, and really, even some of the secular people like Alan Fadusha, who are not creationists at all, he's a bird, paleo bird expert.

49:53

He's argued that this, most of these fossils coming out of China, they're supposed to be feathered dinosaurs, they're actually feathered birds, and that's what you expect.

50:01

So, to our knowledge, there isn't any feathered dinosaur in Delta. I know there's some creationists that are advocating that, but some of us here at ICR and AIG, we kind of got together and looked at the anatomy, the hip anatomy, the way birds and dinosaurs balance differently on their hips and the way they walk on their knees, you know, for the birds.

50:22

And the structure is completely different. It isn't as simple as just, you know, a couple of bone changes. And I even think the evidence stacks up that dinosaurs were cold -blooded.

50:31

There's a lot of strong scientific evidence that shows they really were cold -blooded, and not like birds at all.

50:38

So, the secular world is trying to push the dinosaurs are birds. If you look at a bird, you're looking at a dinosaur, etc. But the warm -bloodedness is in question.

50:46

I think they're cold -blooded, the dinosaurs were. And the Archaeopteryx, there's some people that even secularists have suggested

50:52

Archaeopteryx might have been a cold -blooded bird, in fact. Now, one more thing on Archaeopteryx before we leave, because it's very, very important.

50:59

The people who argue that dinosaurs evolved into birds, most of the fossils that they find of the raptors are up in Cretaceous rocks.

51:07

Those Cretaceous rocks are on top of Jurassic rocks worldwide, if they're there. And the secularists argue there's like 50 million years of time between the

51:16

Archaeopteryx and the late Jurassic and the late Cretaceous raptors.

51:21

There's 50 to 70 million years of time. Well, we don't believe that's true. But they do show the stacking of the layers, and layers that are deeper have to be deposited first, and layers on top have to be deposited later, regardless of the age, whether it's all the year of the flood, like we believe or not.

51:37

But to me, then how do you have birds evolving from dinosaurs when you already had birds before the most bird -like dinosaurs?

51:44

So in the rock record, we see birds in Archaeopteryx that could fly, probably they think flew like a pheasant, not a great flyer, but could fly short distances.

51:53

And that bird got trapped in the flood layers. But then they try to argue that above that, there are these bird -like dinosaurs with, you know, how do you, it's almost like having to have the parent born before the child.

52:06

And so what they have to do is they have these ghost lineages. They say, well, there's an ancestor to both further down, we just haven't found it yet.

52:12

And they actually will teach that with a straight face, talking about ghost lineages. They're totally made up, totally fabricated, because they're doing verification science.

52:20

They're proving what they believe is already true. So if they believe that birds evolved into, or dinosaurs evolved into birds, they're going to go out there and try to find evidence to back it up.

52:29

And when it's not there, they'll make it up and call it ghost lineages. And then they present that as science in the classroom, which is really unfortunate, because it's based on no data at all.

52:39

Science, you should follow data. So Archaeopteryx in some ways is pretty cool, because it's the first bird that we see trapped in the flood rocks, layers, because they couldn't fly as good as some of the other birds that show up later in the rock record.

52:53

But it also is a big kind of statement to show that birds are already there before these so -called bird -like dinosaurs show up much later in the rock record.

53:04

So how do you have birds evolve? And you have to argue that birds evolve twice, and feathers evolve more than once. You know, and if you are a true evolutionist, evolution is supposed to be just random mutation.

53:14

In fact, we got to pick up where you left off there when we come back from the midway break. This is our longer than normal break, folks, so please be patient with us.

53:25

As you know, Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because they have to air public service announcements and other local announcements that localize

53:37

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, to appease the FCC. So while they air their local announcements, we air our globally heard commercials.

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Please use this time wisely. Try to write down as much of the information as you possibly can, provided by our advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them, which will keep them happy and hopefully will keep them advertising with us, because we absolutely require the funding that comes from our advertisers to exist.

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So please try to patronize our advertisers as much as you can, and do so by writing down the information that they provide.

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Also, write down questions for our guest, Tim Clary, and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with more of Dr. Tim Clary. I'm Dr.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big, penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

01:04:03

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

01:04:10

Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

01:04:19

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

01:04:25

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:04:33

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:04:40

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:04:54

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family,

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In Psalm 139, verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,

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I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

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These are God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

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God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

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Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

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01:07:01

Thank you. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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That's solid -ground -books .com. Always remember to tell them that you heard about them from Chris Arns and on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:15:50

Also, folks, before we return to our guests, Tim Clary, we have some other important announcements.

01:15:57

Next week, Monday through Friday from the 26th through the 29th—I'm sorry, from the 26th through the 30th of October, Monday through Friday next week, we are having a five -day tribute to the late

01:16:11

Dr. Greg Bonson. Many consider him to be the father of modern

01:16:16

Christian apologetics, and every day we're going to feature at least two guests that are either experts on the life, legacy, and teaching of Dr.

01:16:27

Bonson, or they also knew him personally and were friends of his, and every day we will, as I said, feature at least two guests on the life and legacy and teaching of Dr.

01:16:40

Greg L. Bonson. So, we hope that you tune in every day next week and submit your questions to our guests to help pay tribute to this legend of Christian apologetics, and I look forward to hearing from you next week with your questions.

01:16:56

Also, folks, if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear from the airwaves,

01:17:02

I'm urging you, please, go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, then click

01:17:08

Click to Donate Now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. We are in urgent need of your help because the coronavirus pandemic hysteria has certainly hit us hard financially because some of our advertisers were hit hard financially and had to hold off on giving, so we kind of are left in the lurch here, and we are in urgent need of your further assistance if you've already given, or your donations for the first time if you've never given.

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Go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now. You can also mail in a check, if you prefer that, to the address that will appear on the screen when you click

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01:18:07

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01:18:23

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Providing for your church and family are two commands of scripture. Providing for this radio show, obviously, is not a command of scripture.

01:18:45

But, if you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money to spend, well, please help us as frequently and as generously as you can by going to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

01:18:58

click Support, then click to donate. If you want us to survive and remain on the air.

01:19:05

Also, folks, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church, no matter where you live in the world, I may be able to help you find a church because I have extensive lists of biblically faithful churches all over the planet

01:19:15

Earth, and I have helped people find churches, sometimes right around the corner from where they live, and they didn't even know these biblically sound churches existed.

01:19:23

So send me an email if you are in that category to ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com,

01:19:30

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in questions to Dr. Tim Clary.

01:19:36

And we are discussing his newest book, Carved in Stone, Geologic Evidence of the

01:19:42

Worldwide Flood. That's ChrisArnson at gmail .com. And Dr. Clary, if you could pick up where you left off.

01:19:51

Geopteryx, which is the first bird found in the rock record, and actually probably one of the first birds at the lowest level of the flood, because these type of birds couldn't fly that well.

01:20:01

They kind of flew probably like a pheasant, at least as the latest scientific research shows. But what's amazing about them is they actually can see, again, even in the feathers of the

01:20:10

Archaeopteryx, they can see preserved organics well enough that they can actually see that the color of Archaeopteryx is probably like an iridescent blue, just like a lot of crows and birds today.

01:20:22

They have the iridescent color to them. And so the preservation of these molecules, these melanosomes, as they're called,

01:20:29

I believe they show that they can even tell some of the colors. And so to me, that's another evidence that these things are not that old, that these things can be preserved that well.

01:20:39

It's also evidence they were very fast. All fossils had to be very fast and deep. But Archaeopteryx, with those feathers, you have to have the right kind of rock, very fine -grained rock to preserve fine -grained details.

01:20:50

But in those details, they're finding things that they never thought would be there. And so, again, as Mary Schweitzer said back earlier, we were talking in the first hour, she, you know, the more she looks, the more she's finding these original tissues and everything.

01:21:03

Even Tyrannosaurus rex sue, the big T -Rex they have in Chicago that was purchased for over $8 million.

01:21:10

She said it hasn't been published, but they found original molecules and proteins in that specimen as well. So she says the more they look, the more they're finding.

01:21:17

And all this evidence for a young earth and a recent flood is out there. It's just, you know, it isn't talked about much in the speculative community.

01:21:25

They're still trying to figure out how can you explain all this away. And the seismic tomography is showing that there really was runaway subduction, really was catastrophic plate tectonics.

01:21:34

They're trying to figure out how to explain that away as well. But the biggest problem we have up against this, there's such a number.

01:21:42

They've been flooding the colleges and the universities and the high schools and the junior high with these stories contrary to the

01:21:50

Bible for decades and decades and decades now. So we have generations of people that grew up only here in Old Earth. They believe these age dates, you know, many well -meaning

01:21:58

Christians are old earthers because they are only taught that. They believe these age dates are real and factual.

01:22:04

When you look at the real data, many of my colleagues at ICR worked on this over the years in the Rape Project, they call it.

01:22:10

And more recently, Dr. Vernon Cupps, my colleague here, has published a book that came out just before my book on about the problems with many of the radiometric dating methods.

01:22:19

He's a nuclear physicist, PhD nuclear physicist, and he's taken a closer look at a lot of these methods and shows that there's assumptions in every one of them.

01:22:26

It's like you've got four unknowns in two equations. If you're a mathematician, you know you need four equations if you have four unknowns.

01:22:34

And so we're working with these multidimensional problems where they have to assume certain conditions and assume nothing's washing in and out.

01:22:41

The more I studied groundwater geology for my PhD, the more I realized everything leaks.

01:22:47

That's why we have such problems containing contamination. And when things get contaminated, it gets away. We have to track it down underground.

01:22:54

Everything's moving and flowing, and that's why oil decays away. It doesn't last for millions of years. Just as well as things don't stay pristine.

01:23:02

You can't maintain a condition and say nothing moves in or out of the system. And they can assume things, but unfortunately, every age that they have, every method that they have has to assume several conditions to get to the point where they want to be.

01:23:15

And so if you want an old age, you can assume certain things, you get an old age. Don't believe the

01:23:20

PhDs that are coming out from the geologists and the scientists. You know, unfortunately, even in the movies we watch, the

01:23:27

Jurassic Park series and things, they talk about millions of years, millions of years, millions of years. It's in our culture. And we need to kind of go there and like pull that out.

01:23:35

People need to recognize they're being taught a story to try to contrast the

01:23:41

Bible. And it's all part of that story is to indoctrinate people in the old methods. And to give evolution a chance, they got to have time.

01:23:49

It's those two pillars. Again, I talked about earlier, you got to have deep time and evolution go together. If you take away one of those pillars, it all collapses.

01:23:57

And so basically what you're saying is that observable science, which is the real science, the science that you can have repetition with the same results in laboratory experiments and all kinds of things like that, that kind of science, the real science points over and over again to a young earth and to an intelligent designer and the secular scientists who believe in a earth that's billions of years old, who believe in Darwinian evolution and all these anti -biblical theories, they don't really have observable science backing them up at all.

01:24:43

I mean, in these areas of difference that we have. Right.

01:24:49

Every time they age dated something and they know the age, I can give you example after example.

01:24:56

I put some of my book, the carbon stone book, almost every example, I don't know if there's even maybe one or two instances where they actually get the age right.

01:25:05

You know, when they know this volcano erupted a thousand years ago or 500 years ago and they dated the rocks, Steve Austin did that and Mountain Helms did it, some rocks that cooled 10 years prior and they got numbers in the 200 and something thousand range to over two million year old range.

01:25:20

And we see this again and again and again and the secular scientists did the same thing in the 60s and 70s on rocks in Italy and Hawaii and none of them were even close.

01:25:28

There were several orders of magnitude off. So how are we supposed to believe these are factual numbers coming out when they haven't got the answers?

01:25:36

When we know the answer, they don't get the right answer. They're not even close. Why are we assuming these are facts?

01:25:41

And yet that's what the secular world relies on. They need that deep time to give their theories of evolution a chance.

01:25:47

Anything to come with that alternative story to the Bible, they need both of those pillars, deep time and evolution.

01:25:54

And you take away the pillar of time, their theory of evolution is going to fall apart as well. Unfortunately, they have the microphone.

01:26:02

They have the majority of people convinced and indoctrinated and so they can pretty much say whatever they want.

01:26:07

But unfortunately, they're not even doing science. Science should follow data. And we should make the best interpretation of the data available.

01:26:14

They're ignoring data. They're just kind of sloughing it off. And these old guys I've talked to about this original dinosaur tissue, the old professor from the

01:26:23

West Coast, he just said, oh, that's nothing. I'm like, it's nothing? There's been 85 papers now published on that planet over and over and over.

01:26:30

And yet they don't want to deal with it because it goes against their worldview of the theory of the billions of years old.

01:26:38

So if you really follow the data, I try to do that in my book. I try to just say, let's take a fresh look at the rocks. Let's plot up the rocks that are there.

01:26:45

What sediments are there? And as I plot these up, I see there's a common story in every continent that there's an increasing level of flooding and flooding and flooding as the rock layers go up to younger and younger layers.

01:26:57

And you see there's one point where the whole world reaches the high points, reaches the same maximum volume, the same maximum extent.

01:27:06

Everything is at the same time, right about the end of what's called the Cretaceous system. And then everything kind of goes down.

01:27:13

Everything kind of shifts to being pushed offshore, just as if you're seeing the flood we've seen. We see all the next layers above are almost deposited offshore into the

01:27:22

Gulf and offshore the oceans all around the world on every continent. But to me, the common story that I'm seeing, and the data is real.

01:27:30

I've gone to secular conferences presenting each continent. We presented three of them now at three different secular geology conferences.

01:27:38

And people in oil and gas would say, yeah, that's what I'm seeing. That's what I'm seeing. Because it's the actual rock data from the oil wells, the actual rock data that people have measured.

01:27:46

And when you plot it all up, again, which nobody's done. This is the first time this has been done, to my knowledge, in over 50 years.

01:27:52

And there's a lot more data now because there's a lot more offshore drilling in the deep ocean and different places. When you plot it all up, it's clear evidence that there really was a global flood.

01:28:02

OK, we have as a first time questioner, I think, Tempe. And Tempe is from Greenville, South Carolina.

01:28:13

In fact, Tempe, her full name, I'm going to give her full name because she's been a guest on this program.

01:28:18

She's a remarkably talented jazz and blues singer and a

01:28:25

Christian as well. And she performs at all kinds of places.

01:28:30

And I first heard about her when she gave her testimony of salvation at a Gideon's event.

01:28:37

And the Gideon event that I went to actually showed a video of that testimony, which is how

01:28:44

I first learned of her and interviewed her on this program. Remarkably gifted woman. In fact, if you want to check out her website, it's

01:28:51

TempeBrown .com, T -E -M -P -E Brown dot com.

01:28:57

And there's no E at the end of Brown. TempeBrown .com. And she says,

01:29:02

Hi, Chris, I wonder if your guest is familiar with The Privileged Planet, a documentary put together by scientists who have, after seeing how perfectly everything fits together in nature, admitted that there has to be a divine intelligence behind it.

01:29:20

I'm not familiar with that particular publication, but I have heard about what they call the Goldilocks Theory out there.

01:29:26

And, you know, everything's just right. The Earth happens to be in the right location to get just enough sun, not too much, not too little, has the right amount of atmospheric gases.

01:29:35

Everything on Earth looks designed. And so I wholeheartedly agree. The Earth has to be designed.

01:29:42

There's no way it could just randomly show up at this right location and life could just randomly show up, you know, evolve from nothing.

01:29:50

Essentially, what psychedelic science is saying is something they disproved over 100 years ago, spontaneous generation.

01:29:57

They believe that non -life, non -living things, rocks, for example, can turn into living organisms.

01:30:04

And to me, that goes against all of proven science, things that we've discarded, you know, again, over 100 years ago, called spontaneous generation.

01:30:11

The origin of life is one of the biggest problems for evolutionary theory. In fact, many of them just ignore that and say, well, evolution really begins after life began.

01:30:20

And they kind of just ignore the biggest problem. They try to take it away from the equation. And it's unfortunate.

01:30:27

But yeah, Earth is actually in the perfect location, the perfect distance from the sun, the perfect size sun. It has the moon to protect it.

01:30:34

Even Jupiter and these other planets actually help pull things away so we don't get struck by asteroids and things that, you know, could destroy the

01:30:40

Earth. God has set us up only by his design and his wondrous creation.

01:30:47

And we're just, as scientists, we're just seeing a glimpse of his wisdom and his brilliance and the knowledge of God which is infinite.

01:30:54

And we're just seeing a little bit of that. It's just, it's a wonderful thing to be a scientist because you get to see a little bit, just these little glimpses of the mind of God.

01:31:04

And we feel like we're almost ants, you know, looking at trying to understand the world from just the view of an ant.

01:31:11

But what we do find out is just amazing. And everything about the Earth and the continents and the location of the

01:31:18

Earth and the universe and the solar system is truly by design. Well, thank you,

01:31:24

Tempe. In fact, I'd like to request that you email me the source where we can view the

01:31:31

Privileged Planet because I'm curious about it myself. So, if you could send me an email with a

01:31:37

URL or something to find out more about that documentary, I'd love to see it. By the way, you also are going to receive a free copy of the book

01:31:47

Carved in Stone that we are discussing today, Geologic Evidence of the

01:31:53

Worldwide Flood, a massive 500 -page hardback. So, keep your eye out on that giant package in the mail from cvbbs .com,

01:32:02

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. You also, since you're a first -time questioner, even though you've been a guest on the program, since you're a first -time questioner, you're also going to receive a free

01:32:11

Bible, a free NAS Bible, New American Standard Bible, complements of the publishers of the

01:32:18

NASB. So, thanks again for contributing an excellent question to the show. We have

01:32:23

Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina, who is a loyal guest,

01:32:30

I'm sorry, a loyal listener and faithful financial supporter of this program, and Grady says,

01:32:36

Greetings, brothers. How do secular scientists explain the changes of Mount St.

01:32:42

Helens? From what I understand by looking at this, it shows that a young earth would have to be possible.

01:32:51

And that's a good point. I mean, they don't even want to consider that a young earth is possible in their world view.

01:32:57

But Mount St. Helens, actually, I was a geology student. I was halfway through my undergraduate when that erupted, and the textbooks for the next decade, even, until recently, didn't even mention there were a catastrophe.

01:33:10

And Mount St. Helens really changed the science of geology in terms of the catastrophes they know do happen now.

01:33:18

They admit that there's rapid carbon, they admit there's rapid deposition. They just don't want to admit that actually happened to form the rocks of the world and the carvings of Grand Canyon and things like that as you erode away with massive amounts of water, which

01:33:32

I believe was from the drainage of the flood. And the floodwater drained away, it carved out the canyon, it carved out many of the canyons in Greenland and Antarctica and the

01:33:40

Palo Duro Canyon and near Amarillo. And ultimately, even Grand Canyon was carved out, I think, by the receding floodwater.

01:33:47

I know some other creationists hold different views on that, but to me, that seems to be the simplest solution to a lot of these things.

01:33:52

But they don't want to admit that there's evidence out there.

01:34:00

Well, thank you, Grady. In fact, Grady has another question here. Let's see here,

01:34:07

I was just looking at it. Let's see, where is Grady's other question, because he sent it in two different emails.

01:34:16

Oh, I found it. And by the way, while I'm getting this email enlarged, because the font is microscopic and I can't read it, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:34:27

If you'd like to send in your own question, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Okay, Grady's other question says,

01:34:34

I've heard that there are several young earth scientists, but they are censored by the mainstream media and politicians.

01:34:44

I've also heard that they're threatened by employers, because they don't go along with global warming.

01:34:51

Do you know if this is true? And that might be an overstatement, because there's a difference between, there's a difference between believing in global warming and also believing that it's mainly man -created and that it's harmful, because the last two,

01:35:12

I don't think that have been ever scientifically proven that it's in the majority created by man and that it's even harmful.

01:35:20

I don't even know if there's any proof at all that it's harmful. But if you could respond. Well, I kind of agree with you on that one.

01:35:27

I've looked at this for a lot of time. It's kind of something I don't deal with on an everyday basis.

01:35:33

But my students have asked me about this over the years, and I'm not a big fan of human caused global warming.

01:35:39

I think there's bigger cycles out there geologically. Even the last couple thousand years, you can see there's 500 year cycles going up and down.

01:35:47

There's fluctuations, you know, prior to 1850 or so. There was a little ice age for about 500 years where the earth was getting colder.

01:35:54

And so there's moments, you know, that go kind of... As you came out of the flood, of course, there was a lot of rapid changes to the world.

01:36:01

There was an ice age that came out of the consequence of the flood, and all those things kind of had to settle out into an equilibrium. But it fluctuates up and down a little bit depending...

01:36:09

It appears to be more tied to solar radiation, you know, how much sunlight's reaching the earth, sort of sunspot cycles almost in that regard in some ways.

01:36:19

But it's kind of become a political thing where they're trying to blame it on humans because many of these secular humanists don't believe in God who's sustaining the earth.

01:36:27

He promised he would sustain the earth until he comes again. I know there's checks and balances that God has built into the earth.

01:36:33

Scientists still are just starting to understand bits and pieces of that. But these people that believe in global warming and the human cause, they really believe that they've got to save the earth because they're the highest evolved animal, and they've got to do something.

01:36:47

And so they're really passionate about what they believe, but it's unfortunately, I think it's misguided. I think it isn't so much caused by humans as much as they think it is.

01:36:57

It's more or less there's these bigger cycles up and down. Now, that said,

01:37:02

I mean, again, I don't know if CO2 is even all that bad. Like you mentioned, Chris, CO2 that's being produced is not the enemy, in my opinion.

01:37:12

Plants need it to survive. Plants love CO2, and they grow better, they flourish better, but they're starting to see this now in some of these studies.

01:37:18

But I'm more worried about other types of pollution, toxic chemicals that we release. As I mentioned earlier, everything leaks.

01:37:25

And so gasoline spills, chemical spills, these sorts of things are much more toxic and are killing people at a higher rate and poisoning people at a higher rate than CO2.

01:37:35

CO2 is not toxic. CO2 is not the enemy. The only time CO2 has killed anybody is in some instances in Africa where there was a rapid CO2 release in a volcanic area from a lake where CO2 erupted out and flowed down.

01:37:50

Pure CO2 is heavier than most air, so it kind of hugged the ground and suffocated an entire village and all the animals as well.

01:37:57

And this happened, I think, twice in the 80s. But it dissipated eventually. But unfortunately, it displaced all the oxygen long enough to kill

01:38:06

I forget how many people and a lot of animals as well in these villages in Africa.

01:38:11

But you know, it's not poisonous. CO2 is not a poison gas, not toxic. I don't know why people make such a big deal about CO2 other than they are trying to blame it on humans.

01:38:23

But again, as you mentioned, I'm not 100 % convinced that all the CO2 increase is caused by human activity.

01:38:29

There's a lot of CO2 released by just erosion of limestone. Limestone is calcium carbonate,

01:38:36

CaCO3. And to form limestone, you had to pull it out of the atmosphere. During the flood, tremendous amounts of CO2 must have been pulled out of the atmosphere to create all this limestone all over the world.

01:38:45

But as those limestone layers are exposed up against mountains, they erode by rainwater. And a little bit of acid in a lot of water picks up that calcium carbonate, dissolves and releases

01:38:55

CO2. Just like when you take Tums, you burp. You know, Tums used to be made out of calcium carbonate.

01:39:01

I think it's something else now. But there's an actual natural release of these gases based on decomposition of that.

01:39:10

Limestone. As limestone dissolves, you release more CO2. So, if you look at the chart,

01:39:15

CO2 is kind of steady. You know, we don't see a source that's steady other than evolution.

01:39:22

We need some sort of a source to explain it's steady. And human CO2 production is not steady. It's up and down, up and down.

01:39:29

It should be fluctuating more. So there's a lot of problems, I think, with that. That's a whole different topic.

01:39:34

Right. Getting away from the research that I do every day as a geologist. But it is somewhat important, because it may be related to the rocks that are eroding that are exposed at the

01:39:43

Earth's surface today. And, of course, what we know from observable science is that warmer weather is conducive to life thriving.

01:39:55

And the colder it is, the less life you have. So there's a lot of reasons why these crazy theories they come up with on the left are ridiculous.

01:40:04

In fact, I have a recommendation to anybody listening. If they want to hear an excellent interview

01:40:12

I conducted on the issue of global warming or climate change, as they more frequently today use as a phrase, as if anybody's going to disagree that there's such a thing as climate change.

01:40:27

You know, they always change the wording. So if you disagree with it, it sounds like you're a nut.

01:40:32

But I interviewed Gregory Wright Stone, W -R -I -G -H -T -S -T -O -N -E, who is the author of the book,

01:40:43

Inconvenient Facts, the science that Al Gore doesn't want you to know.

01:40:49

So if you go to the Iron Trip and Zion Radio website, irontripandzionradio .com, and you click on podcast past shows, and you type in the search engine

01:41:01

Wright Stone, W -R -I -G -H -T -S -T -O -N -E, that interview will come up.

01:41:06

And you can also find out how to purchase the book, Inconvenient Facts, the science that Al Gore doesn't want you to know.

01:41:15

So you can hear what Gregory Wright Stone has to say. We have to go to our final break.

01:41:24

It's a lot shorter than the other two. So if you want to send in a question, please do so quickly, because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:41:31

Oh, and Grady, you have also won a free book of, a free copy, I should say, of the book we are discussing,

01:41:38

Carved and Sewn, Geologic Evidence of the Worldwide Flood, by our guest today,

01:41:44

Tim Clary. And we thank CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, for shipping these books out.

01:41:52

And we also thank our guest, Dr. Tim Clary, for generously donating these books that we have been giving away.

01:41:59

So if you have a question, send it in quickly to chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages.

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01:52:58

Welcome back, and Tempe Brown in Greenville, South Carolina has emailed me the

01:53:05

YouTube link where you can watch the Privileged Planet documentary she was mentioning.

01:53:13

It's too complicated to read, so if anybody wants it, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:53:19

and I will send you an email with that YouTube link. Or you could just go to youtube .com

01:53:26

and type in The Privileged Planet, and that should come up.

01:53:32

Um, let's see here. We had another listener who sent in an email and I'm looking for that right now.

01:53:40

While I'm looking for it, you can go to, you can send us an email if you have a question and I would urge you to do it quickly because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:53:49

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:54:01

USA. And we have, oh, this is an email from a listener who was also a guest during that Young Earth, Old Earth debate program.

01:54:17

Actually, I think it was a series of a couple of programs where we had both views compared and contrasted side by side or back to back.

01:54:29

He happens to be an Old Earth creationist named Ken Wolgamuth. And he says,

01:54:35

Hi Chris, please say hello to Tim. You have my permission to give our names as Old Earth creationists who are co -authors of the book

01:54:43

The Grand Canyon Monument to an Ancient Earth. Can Noah's Flood Explain the

01:54:50

Grand Canyon? Dr. Greg Davidson, Chair of the Department of Geology and Geological Engineering, University of Mississippi.

01:54:58

Dr. Ken Wolgamuth, founder of Solid Rock Lectures, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Thank you for having us on a couple of years ago.

01:55:06

And even though I am strongly committed to the Young Earth view,

01:55:12

I do believe that we as brothers and sisters in Christ can treat each other charitably over this. And I'm assuming you agree with that as well.

01:55:21

Are you there, brother? Oh, sorry. I had you on mute. Can you repeat what you were saying? Hello, Tim.

01:55:30

Yes, I was wondering what's the actual... I know Ken. I want to tell him hello. We met several times.

01:55:37

But his question is, how can Noah's Flood explain Grand Canyon wrecks? Is that kind of what you're...

01:55:42

No, he didn't have a question. That was the title of the book. Oh, I know. I know. I read through much of their book.

01:55:49

I've addressed some of their things in some of my articles for Acts and Facts that we put out every month through ICR .org.

01:55:55

It's our free monthly publication. Some of the things I've addressed on that. But, you know, as I say in my book, one of the things

01:56:01

I wrote in my book is, you know, what studies have been done to prove that rocks take thousands or millions of years to form? And really, there's no studies that show rocks take great periods of time.

01:56:10

Everything we see when we study rocks and coal and even oil in the laboratory in the right conditions, we can make oil in less than an hour.

01:56:17

We can make rocks really quickly as well in the right conditions. It's not a problem to make all those rocks to pile all that material on there.

01:56:23

When you consider the enormity of the flood, we've got to get beyond what we think. And even as a person that studies the rocks every day and looks at the rocks globally every day, it's very hard to imagine a catastrophic event that covered the entire earth when it worked its way up progressively, as I'm seeing in the rock record.

01:56:41

But we've got to kind of think outside the box, as the cliche goes, that we've got to try to think beyond what we've been taught.

01:56:47

And we've got to think beyond, in geology, we're always taught there's environments for everything. There's uniformitarian ideas that slow rivers did this and this and this.

01:56:56

But yet we look at the rocks, and the rocks look nothing like those rivers. The rocks look nothing like these deposits. We see deposits on a massive scale that cover several states.

01:57:04

Like the Morris Information covers much of the American West. We see the Nautiloid deposits at the bottom of the

01:57:10

Red Wall in Grand Canyon that covers massive areas, miles and miles and miles, tens of miles in every direction.

01:57:16

All the same thing deposited rapidly at once. We see evidence of rapid deposition, which is what we learned at Mount St.

01:57:22

Helens, that there's catastrophes that do happen. Geologies had to change their way and realize that there are catastrophes that do much of the work that we see in geology.

01:57:31

But why not believe in one big catastrophe? It's easier to believe in that when I look at the rock data globally or look at continent by continent by continent, and I see the same pattern happening on every continent at about the same time at every level.

01:57:43

The same fossils being buried at the same level. Sudden appearances of fossils showing up as you go through the different ecological zones as the flood progressed higher and higher.

01:57:52

It's no wonder we start with marine critters. Those are the shallow marine areas that are flooded first.

01:57:57

And then as you work your way up to the swampy wetland areas, we see these coal seams show up suddenly all over the earth at the same time.

01:58:03

By the way, Tim, we're out of time, and I definitely want to have you back.

01:58:09

You have been a fountain of information. I want to make sure that our listeners have all of your contact information.

01:58:17

I know that your website is icr .org. Do you have any other information that you care to share?

01:58:25

Well, I also have a really good dinosaur book that I wrote a few years earlier, which is you mentioned earlier, Dinosaurs, Marvels of God's Design, and that's on our website as well.

01:58:34

And some of these books you can go to, they sell them on Amazon as well. If you forget our website, we do sell

01:58:40

The Carving Stone on Amazon. It comes from ICR, but Amazon sells some of our books as well, so you can find some of our books on Amazon if you're more conducive to do that.

01:58:56

But we have a lot of resources at ICR that we didn't get a chance to mention here, things on genetics, things on the human genome, even some books coming out by one of my colleagues on climate change.

01:59:08

Oh, great. A little bit about what I'm doing, but we have a book that's going to be coming out probably early next year on that.

01:59:14

Great. My colleague Dr. Jake Hebert. Well, I'd love to have him on as well, but let's keep in touch.

01:59:19

I would definitely want to have you return. And I want to thank everybody who listened today. I hope you all have a safe and blessed and happy and joyful and healthy weekend, and Christ -honoring

01:59:31

Lord's Day. I hope that you will tune in next week for our five -day tribute to the late

01:59:36

Greg Bonson, the father of modern Christian apologetics. And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater