Live with Dr. Jason Lisle from Colorado Springs

Went and bought one of those electrical fly swatters. They're worthless.

Opening Remarks from Colorado Springs

Well, greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. We are coming to you live and in not a whole lot of color. I mean, our shirts are colorful, but neither Dr. Lyle or I are the most melanated people on the planet.

And look at my last name. I mean, I am dead any direction you go. But we are coming to you live from Colorado Springs, Colorado in the Alpha Omega Ministries Mobile Command Center, whatever that's called.

I am just extremely proud of the fact that I have now driven about 800 miles on interstate highways on I -25. Do you know there's some horrible construction? Oh, there is a place where they make you go over into the other lane.

So they've divided the folks coming south. So you're taking the fast lane. It's one lane, very narrow. And to get there, you have to go down at an angle like this. Now, when you're pulling one of these things with a truck, that ain't no fun, okay?

Because the trailer isn't getting to the down part until after, so you do this number. Oh, that was fun. Anyways, I'm here, it's working. I haven't knocked anything off of it yet. And so we're excited about that.

And I am joined by Dr. Jason Lyle of the Biblical Science Institute who happens to live in these parts as well. And we have had Jason on the program a number of times. You've been on Sheologians, that makes you even more famous than being on the dividing line.

Summer will bake me something for having said that. I imagine some brownies or something eventually, gluten-free probably. But so we've had you on the program, but we've never been able to do anything in person.

Now, we have done things in person. In fact, I've told the story that the primary reason I have to have a storage room is so I can have a cool place to store my telescopes. And you do realize that's completely your fault.

You do realize that. We've told the story before, we were in Dallas with Emilia Ramos and we were doing a bunch of Christian worldview stuff. I think you were doing, did you do your presuppositional thing at that one?

I'm not, I don't remember. I can't remember these things either, but We had a Q &A, I remember that. We had a Q &A and I was underdressed. You all were making me look bad. And we got done about, I don't know, four something in the afternoon.

And all of a sudden you said, hey, want to do some stargazing? Now it's been a long day. We had spoken the night before and I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, I, you know, all right. So we went over to somebody's house and you drove your car sort of on an embankment behind somebody's fence.

In fact, didn't the cops come along and make you move your car eventually? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is that the first time that it ever happened? Yes. Oh, okay. So I was with Dr. Jason Liao when he started down the road toward whatever it is he's headed towards.

So, but you set up, yours is a 16 inch? 14 inch. 14 inch, 14 inch Dobsonian. And now I've got to tell you folks, I hope I'm not revealing secrets here, but I had never seen one of these things before.

And I was very impressed with its go-to function where you could tell it to go here and it turns there and things like that. But you really, you know when you really impressed me was about two years ago when you drove up to Evergreen and you brought the same telescope.

I had my eight inch me, which is a nice scope, but something went wonky with the motor on your telescope. Didn't slow him down. It was just about, okay, so it's not gonna move there on its own. I know where it's supposed to be pointing.

So it's just like, okay, I think it's about right there. And I'm just sort of like, okay, yeah, all right. So that first night you showed us, you obviously had a priority list of start with stuff and then move to the cool stuff.

I figured that out later on, yeah. And so we're looking at Jupiter, both Jupiter and Saturn were visible that night, as I recall. And this guy's sitting here going, okay, this is this moon. And that's some of the characteristics of that moon.

And this is that moon. And I'm sitting here going, what? And with a 14 inch, you can get some resolution regarding the bands on Jupiter and stuff like that quite easily. And even the rings on Saturn, you kept Saturn toward the end.

Of course, yeah, that's the highlight. But that wasn't the last thing you showed us. Maybe you didn't know this, but this is what got me, is you showed us Alberia. And I was getting tired, I really was.

And then you said, I think you all would really like seeing Alberia. Oh, okay, fine. Now, actually I had asked to see Andromeda. I really wanted to see, go ahead and kill him. If you can get him faster than I can, that's great.

And so you showed us Andromeda and that blew me away. I'm sitting here going, and you're talking about how fast we're heading toward it and all the rest of this fun stuff. And, but then afterwards, the last thing we looked at was Alberia.

And I've of course sent you, I sent you, notice what the background of my, is my shot of Alberia. I mean, I took that shot. And if you've never seen Alberia, if you live like in a massively light polluted city, I feel for you.

Okay, my heart goes out to you. You have missed some of the most beautiful stuff of God's creation. And, you know, I can't tell you how many Christians I talked to. And they just sort of look at me like, oh, that's up in the sky, huh?

You know, and it's just, and I don't know how to communicate to somebody. To say. To kind of have to see it. You have to see it. And you have to see it in something other than a picture or something on a computer.

There's something about seeing it with your own eyes. I know, even though you're looking through an instrument, it's still, because through a telescope, you still have to, there is that working of your eye you have to do to get that right focus and stuff like that.

It's hard to explain how to do it. You tried to explain it to us, but it's still something you've just got to do on your own. But still, once you see it, you've done this far more times than I have. But I've given a couple of star shows for some church groups and I love, like when you do the, the, oh, good grief, Nebula, Orion's Nebula.

Oh yeah. And especially if you've got a filter in that makes the color pop. And someone walks up, that's sort of been a little, no, no, no, no for the evening. And all of a sudden they look through that and they back up with their eyes.

What is that? That's been staring at you your whole life. I love, I love the reaction. And kids, kids are either just immediately taken or they want to go play their video games. One of the two. There's almost no in between.

It's amazing. But there we were out along some road and it really wasn't the darkest sky area. It wasn't. But you can still see some deep, deep sky objects. And so when I got back, I said, all right, I'm going to get a six inch.

It's not motorized, but it does have the computer on it so that it knows where you're moving it type thing. So it is a go-to, it's just not motorized. And they're not all that expensive. And if I use it and I stick with it, then I can get a bigger scope.

And so I did. And so just last, when was that conjunction with Saturn and Jupiter recently?

Oh, that was just last December 21st.

Okay, so there was a Christmas party at our church at a very, a fellow who's pretty well off. And so sitting, you'll be so proud of this, sitting in front of this person's house, I had my eight inch mead and I had the six inch set up so that everybody could watch the conjunction and see the conjunction.

And that's made a lot of them go, but I can still tell the difference between the two. Yeah, they weren't actually right on top of each other.

No, I realize that's the first time in human history since we've had telescopes, it's been that close. Right, right, right. So man, and that's not gonna happen again for 60 years.

Yeah, I think you and I are pretty much out of it. I think so, yeah. I hope to not be alive in 60 years. Well, if you are, hopefully you can still see because that'd be a bummer to not be able to see that.

So anyway, so getting into all that stuff was all this guy's fault and he will take the blame for it, whether he wants it or not, but it's been great. And we're not, it's not looking good for us to get to do much.

It's been looking better, we might. You never know, you never know. It was There's smoke. The smoke, oh, the haze. Wow, I could barely even see the mountains when I was coming in. It was like, where'd the mountains go?

This is Colorado and there's no mountains around. Anyway, we're gonna actually be speaking tomorrow starting

Four o 'clock, I think, Monday, event begins.

Okay, and we're both speaking twice. No, you're speaking twice, I'm speaking once. You sure about that? I'm sure about that. Oh, oh, okay, all right. I already prepared one talk, so I'm speaking twice.

Oh, all right, I thought we were both speaking twice, but okay, all right. So they're making me do more of the work. That's As it should be. Make the visitor do the work. Okay, I get it. Anyways, I don't have the stuff in front of me.

Do you have the, where people can go or Well, it's in Hope Chapel.

That's my home church. And you can look it up, Hope Chapel, Colorado Springs. Look it up on the website. That'll get you all the information. Yeah, yeah. And starting

Well, I'll just ask him to speak up a little bit, but no, because the microphone is the computer. So, all right, okay. Well, you know me, I yell. So, and he's much more, scholars don't yell, not as much as Rich would like them to.

So, anyways, so we'll be speaking tomorrow evening and anybody in the Colorado Springs area, you're more than welcome. And then I'm gonna be heading up to Denver and I will be preaching at Redemption Hills Church on Sunday morning and Boulder Bible Church Sunday evening.

For those of you who want to, are in that particular area. And really, if you live sort of between the two, you could go to all of them if you wanted to. It's not that far of a drive. No, it's not. So, but we're up here in Colorado for a while.

I'm on my way next week up to Idaho where I will speak so many times between Thursday and Monday morning that I can't even remember all of them. But that's just how it goes when you're up there. I'll also be speaking.

I'll be stopping in Frenchtown, Montana or Wyoming. Sorry, in Montana. It's on the website. We have a wonderful calendar there with the address and everything else. And then I'll be speaking in Las Vegas, Nevada on the way back home.

Assuming that I have not gone through a excessively low bridge and taken the top of this off or something like that on the way. I'm learning. I am really learning a lot. Now, speaking of learning, there is a book to your left there that I had a fly sitting on it just now that I showed everybody on the dividing line.

And it's got your name on the front, but I'm probably one of the only people who ever suggested to you about writing a book about that subject as someone who... I mean, I've been doing fractal art since computer programs started coming out that allowed you to do fractal art.

And the Mandelbrot set and the Julia fractals and all this kind of stuff. I would post this kind of stuff and people sort of go, that sort of looks like you came from the 1960s and never escaped. It's like you're wearing a tie dye shirt type thing.

And it's like, no, there's a whole lot more to it than this. But I remember the first time I suggested to it, you said, yeah, well, I'm already gonna do that. So you had... When you did your presentation and you did one presentation where we had some technical issues and then you did one later on that I think you started to sort of replace the first one with that one.

When did the book idea...

Was that first or second? Well, I've always been interested in fractals. I learned about them. I was in high school when I learned about them. I read a book by Roger Penrose, the mathematician called The Emperor's New Mind, which in itself would be worthy of discussion.

It's a fascinating read. He's exploring the nature of consciousness from his apparently non-Christian perspective. And he comes through, he discusses different things in nature. Could this be the source of consciousness?

And basically, no, nothing in nature can be the source of consciousness. And one of the things he discusses is chaos. Can chaos be the source? And he talks about fractals and the Mandelbrot set in particular.

I thought, that's fascinating. And back then I had just a low-end PC.

It was like an 80286. Oh, yeah, 286, man. Yeah.

And so I wrote a little computer program to plot the Mandelbrot set. And I was amazed by it. And especially as I'd zoom in on some of these sections and see the incredible beauty of it. And back then it took, of course, I wrote it in BASIC.

I wasn't a real good programmer back then. I've gotten a little better over the years. But I wrote a program to do it. And some of these plots, it would take over 24 hours for them to render. And then I would print them out because then that's it.

There was no way

Right, there's no way to save it and keep it. And that was back in the time, this was before the internet.

So obviously this was back in a time where you couldn't just download somebody else's program. There were BBS systems and I didn't have access to those.

Oh, goodness, you were a BBS guy too. Now see, I was on the Mormon Echo, Bible Echo. I was doing the theological stuff. You were out geeking out on math stuff. Yeah.

And there were some BBS systems. But generally back in those days, if you wanted the program to do something, you had to write it. So I wrote my own and it was inefficient, but it got the job done. And lately I've been able to speed things up.

I've learned better computer languages, C-sharp and things like that, or the new programs in C-sharp, it's fast. It's optimized for the metal browser.

But I've always thought they were fascinating. Oh, yeah. Everyone that I've ever directed to your presentation on it has just been blown away by it. They really found it to be fascinating. Even though I think some folks are like, cool, but I'm really not sure what I just saw.

But the mathematically minded are pretty blown away by it. Now for me, look, all the color stuff is just simply assigning values to numbers and stuff like that. But I have always been absolutely fascinated with color.

I mean, if you're familiar with the impressionist painter, Claude Monet, Monet is just one of my favorites because the color that he was able to produce. And some of his, when you zoom in on some of his paintings, it's like, oh, that looks like my fractal art.

It really, really does. And so I'm not so much the math part as I am the output, what you end up seeing. But still that chaos stuff, remember Jurassic Park, the discussion of chaos at that time. And of course the illustration that, and that it's true, the direction a butterfly taking off from a branch in Colorado can literally impact where a hurricane strikes in Florida.

And it's true. And the only way to explain it is through fractal mathematics and the just hyper complexity that is found there. But it's fascinating because when you think about it, there was, you see it now, but no one before the, what, 1980s, had any possible way of even knowing.

And so I sort of sit back and go, so why would the Lord create something like this? You've had the same thought. Why would the Lord create something like this that won't be known until this time in history?

And as an apologist, part of my thinking is, we also, Darwin didn't understand cellular biology, didn't understand DNA. DNA and everybody, now everybody knows what RNA is, mRNA is, for reasons that we won't get into right now.

But those things, again, just the level of complexity of life unknown until this period in human history, where you have both the greatest opportunities for the demonstration of truth, as well as the greatest opportunities to attack truth.

And I sort of wonder if, and I'm speculating, I'm just trying to apply a biblical worldview, but I just sort of wonder if our knowledge of these things, we didn't even know, a hundred years ago, they were still arguing about the puffy things in the sky.

What in the world are these things? And now we know that they are galaxies as large as our own. And there are, thanks to Hubble, who was resurrected a couple of weeks ago, as you know. You heard about that, right?

Yes, I did.

I figured you would. Yeah. They were to get it to work again. Yes, yes.

It was brought back to life and we need it because the new one isn't supposed to be launched till later this year.

I'm not sure, they keep pushing it back. The James Webb Telescope, they keep pushing it back and it's not serviceable. So once the, because Hubble's in earth orbit, so you can swap out components. It's like 80 new telescope.

Right, right. Because it was launched early, late eighties. Late eighties, early nineties, something like that. Yeah, yeah.

With the incorrect lens, they had to put co-star. All the new instruments are built toward the new mirror curvature. But yeah, the James Webb Space Telescope is not in earth orbit. It will be put out at the earth.

I think it's the L2 Lagrangian point out beyond earth. It's not serviceable. Once it goes up, that's it. So pray everything works on the James Webb. Yeah.

I did not know that. Is that so that it has a wider field of view or farther away from? Why would they put it, why do that? What's the advantage?

Well, you don't have the rapid motion around the earth. So there's that. It does get you beyond things like the moon, and things like that. I'm not sure. If I had made the call, it would be in low earth orbit like the Hubble is.

In fact, that was, I remember them discussing that one time at the university when I was up at Boulder. And they were saying, yeah, the Hubble, it's neat because it's serviceable. You can go and you can swap out instruments at the James Webb, but it can't do that.

So let's pray it works. And it's not upgradeable. Yikes. Wow. But it's a fine instrument. And I expect we'll see some of the data from it. Well, I'm glad the Hubble is still going because the web isn't quite a replacement of Hubble.

I think it's infrared. So we're not gonna get quite the same images. I like the Hubble, that the Hubble can do visual stuff. Stuff that would look, if I was there, that's what it would look like. So that's kind of a neat thing about the Hubble.

One of many things. So the web is just I think it's infrared. X-ray or I think it's infrared.

Only infrared. Wow. Huh. Well, that's fascinating. Well, all this stuff, we now have, I have apps on my phone where I, and I bet you have the exact same apps and probably more, where you can pull down all these different current images of the sun.

My solar telescope is finally having, finally has a use. Because I bought it right as the minimum was starting. And so it's sort of like, sure, it's gonna look like it did yesterday. There's nothing up there.

But now there's a whole lot more to be looking at as far as sunspots and stuff goes. And of course, I mentioned this because Dr. Lyle, your doctoral work was primarily on solar physics and regards to that.

And of course, you've then extended that out to looking at stars in general and especially star, controversial stuff regarding star formation. There's a lot of assumptions that are functioning in science regarding blue stars or new stars.

And so this is an area of star formation and it's all based on a theory of the age of the universe. And so you find yourself obviously not exactly in the center of being loved.

Solar Physics, Star Formation, and Worldview Assumptions

Yeah, sure enough. When it comes to how stuff works today, the scientific method, I'm all for it. And a lot of the stuff we've learned about stars, that's great information. When they start speculating about the distant past, you've left the realm of science at that point.

And every day, it seems like we've But they don't seem to make that distinction.

No, they don't, they don't. Are they just not taught to make that distinction? I think that's a big part of it.

I wasn't in my secular education. I was not taught to make that distinction. And I think it's an important one because your worldview assumptions, I mean, they're always important, but they're far more important when you're speculating on the past, far more important.

Right, right.

Because if you're wrong here, you just get wronger and wronger and wronger as you go along, basically. Chaos, a little change here.

So it's the same thing. And even with the star formation thing, just a couple of days ago, I read a new paper that's published that said this challenges our star formation theories. And it had to do with the fact that a lot of these extrasolar planets that we're finding that orbit around their star, sometimes the star rotates this way and the planet orbits that way.

And that's something that I would expect as a biblical creationist, because God can make all kinds of, because he's done that in our solar system. Some moons, like Triton, it goes the other way, or they're like that.

And so I would expect that, but that's totally contrary to the secular model where you have everything Because if you only have naturalistic forces working to form these things. Yeah, if everything collapsed from a nebula, conservation of angular momentum would keep everything spinning the same way.

So all the planets and the star would be rotating about the same way. And for our solar system, not too far off, but it's a little bit off, even with our solar system. The sun's tilted seven degrees relative to the planets.

How does that happen? There's not really any good explanation for that. And so now that we're finding other planets that, in my view, yeah, that's the diversity that the Lord's built into his universe.

That's what I would expect, but it's contrary to secular expectations. We find stuff like that all the time.

Science, Scientism, and a Christian Worldview

And yet that becomes so central to the theoretical applications and purposes of what you're doing. I mean, worldview is just... And yet that just isn't... That just is not... Western education, as it's being done today, especially if you're to do a specialization, I mean, you could, with the data that's available today, you could so narrowly specialize in something about the sun that could literally leave you ignorant about other aspects of the sun because it's so in-depth in this one area.

And so because of that, then connecting what's there to the entirety of a worldview issue, our universities are a mess.

And I'm something of an exception because I like all the different branches of science and I read all about them, even in astronomy. And so even though I have my specialty field, I've read about other fields.

Most scientists don't do that. Most scientists specialize in one field and they could care less about it, which amazes me. Well, they have to get published.

That's true. They're running the rat race of academia. And there are some real problems with that. There are real problems with that in science. There's real problems with that in theology. Because if you have to get published and you gotta come up with something new, well, truth doesn't change all that much.

And so it can be a real problem in theology as well. But yeah, not having... I have just... When I listen to scientists, they have bought into scientism and they don't even realize. I think they don't even see...

It's sort of like talking to a Jehovah's Witness. It's never known anything other than what the Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses think that nobody out there even knows, for example, what Jehovah's name is.

And so when they run across someone who knows what the Tetragrammaton is and knows what it is in Hebrew, there's, oh, no. It's the same kind of glassy eyed look that I get when I talk with some secularists.

Because the next generation, we are finally getting into generations of people where they are completely secular. Their parents were secular. There's no impact anymore. And so all of a sudden, you start challenging some of their worldview stuff and they're just like, what planet did you come from?

And why is it spinning backwards? Basically, they just... And the best they can do is, it's sort of like Jehovah's Witnesses will respond to a challenge by saying, you're attacking Jehovah's organization.

And if you challenge the secularist, you're attacking science, you're anti-science. And it's like, no, science exists in something a lot bigger than just science. And they don't even know what to say.

There's an ignorance of the history of science, the fact that it stemmed from a Christian worldview. And you mentioned earlier that I feel very blessed to live in the time that I live in, where we have things like these amazing shapes that you can now, on your own computer, you can explore this universe that's been there since creation, but we didn't know about it until 1980s.

What a blessing. But that comes from Christian thinking. And I would argue that the Renaissance, all these things stem from a Christian worldview. Because of the expectation that nature is logical and orderly, because it's upheld by the mind of God.

And even folks like Newton, well, he may have been unorthodox on some issues, but at least he had respect for the Bible and he believed in a God who was orderly and upheld creation in a consistent way.

And he was able to make more discoveries than any human being has a right to. He was truly brilliant. But, or Kepler, Kepler was a very consistent biblical Christian and a really solid guy. Oh, there are many of them.

Yeah, oh yeah, it was common. That was, back then, if you're a scientist, well, of course you're a Christian.

But they don't, but most of the textbooks don't even go there now, except out of embarrassment. Because it just doesn't, they don't see that there's any connection. There's no connection whatsoever. And when people don't have, when people have not been taught to think from a worldview perspective and to see connections, they are easily controlled and they are easily deceived.

And man, are we seeing that in our world right now. And I, part of me goes, oh, that's terrible, that's horrible. And I'm depressed. And then part of me goes, but the only reason you see that is because the spirit of God has worked in your life so as to cause you to want to know truth and to be obedient to truth and to see these connections.

And the spirit hasn't gone anywhere. And Nancy Pelosi cannot ban the spirit of God from the United States, even though I'm sure she'd like to. And so why, I think it's my, Scotsmen tend to be a little bit on the dreary side at times.

And so, I mean, Scotty got depressed a few times on the Enterprise. He's intended that. That's why he drank a lot. That's right, that's right. What's that, it's green. It's green. All right, no one's gonna say what we just said, but I thought about, folks, I'm gonna tell you something.

I have a friend and he's probably watching right now. His name's Ken Gontarz. And Ken is watching the original Star Trek series. I don't know what channel it is, but it's on Saturday nights. And he would tell me, oh, this one's titled such and so.

And I'd say, oh, that's about this, this, that, that. And all of a sudden I realized, cause I have all of them on this computer right here. All of a sudden I realized they were playing them in the order in which they were produced.

Just straight down the line, which is the way they are in my program too. And so I'd start telling him, like, for example, the Trouble Tribbles was recently. I said, okay, you've got a lot of classics coming up.

If you enjoy the comedic aspect of Star Trek, once this is done, you've gotta go watch the DS9. Oh my goodness, that was so good. Oh, they did, I could watch that all day long. It was so, so well done.

But so I'm telling him all this stuff. Well, the last episode that they played had a scene in it. And I've been telling him, so I'll say, well, watch for this. Okay, this is the part you might find interesting or be careful like the Gamesters of Triskelion is that you might not wanna have the kids around on that one, cause they were pushing the limits on that one at that point in the 1960s.

But so there was this scene and there was a line in it that just made me laugh. And so I was watching it. And so I said to Ken, watch for this line. And so Jason and I were texting about getting together today and I decided to test this guy cause I've always said he's the smartest guy I've ever met.

IQ off the charts, all the rest of the stuff. Well, we're talking about astrophysics, okay? And fractals and mathematics and Einstein and the speed of light stuff which I still don't even get to understand.

We're not talking Star Trek here, okay? And so I go, all right, I'm gonna test you. And I'm gonna give you a line and tell me where it's from Star Trek. And it's, what is it? It's green. Now I didn't even go green cause I was texting.

If I had said green, I would have absolutely totally given it away. And it was from Scotty. I won't tell the whole story. I mean, I don't know how many years ago this thing was produced but Scotty decided to try to get this one alien incapacitate this one alien with alcohol, basically.

And so at one point he's pouring this guy and the guy goes, what is it? And Scotty goes, it's green. And so I threw it out. And what did you say? Pasha or something? Police. Police. And immediately named the episode.

Like, come on, you would even ask me a question? I am insulted. And then makes me feel really bad when he goes, and remember it was in relics in the next generation. I'm like, what, what? And he had to tell me and I had to go look and Scotty had, that was the only time he, yeah, it was the only time he showed up in the next generation.

Scotty, and that was, you gotta admit, somebody had to put some real hard work into figuring out how in the world do you get Scott? My daughter just said, this is the nerdiest thing I've ever watched on the internet.

But how do you get Scotty into the next generation 75 years after he's supposed to be dead? And a transporter loop in diagnostic mode. Brilliant. I mean, someone stayed up late at night to come up with that one.

So anyways, but it wasn't Scotty that did it. It was data, which I found fascinating. The data was the one that went. It's green. It is green. It is green. Because he wouldn't use the contraction. It's heavy lore.

That's right. Okay, we lost it. No, there is nobody watching anymore there. They were really enjoying the Christian worldview stuff. And then we went off after Star Trek.

In fairness, by any other, it arose by any other name. That is one of my favorite episodes of the original series. I liked that one. And it terrified me too, when they could turn the people into these little cubes.

And then go, and they're toast. And there you are. But they could bring you back as long as you didn't break the cube, then you're good. So, and then of course the energy barrier.

Yeah, at the perimeter of our galaxy.

Which there is no such thing. But yeah, but it made for a fun with Scotty saying, can we blow the Enterprise up now? Because that's what they were going to do. But they didn't do it. So anyways. You would do that for invaders?

No, we would for friends. Okay, all right. Well, I guess, suppose we should point out that we are aware of the fact that Star Trek was not a Christian program. No, it was not. But it is interesting. I'll be honest with you, to compare some of the worst of the next generation.

There was, I recorded all the next generation on videotape. Okay. And so it had all the commercials in it. And that the whole nine yards. Even Rich is going, oh, come on guys. But there were one or two that I simply deleted.

There was the one with the androgynous people.

There was a really anti-theistic ones.

Yeah, that was who watches the Watchers. That was the one where writer says, they're starting to believe in a God. Right, right, right.

Something like that. Yeah, there are a couple I just deleted. But then there were some in the original, like the Roman one. Yes. Where Ohura at the end, no, they don't mean the sun is in the sky. They mean the son of God.

Son of God. And you're just like, how did, for us today, how did that get in there? But it was the late 1960s. It was, things have changed. They've changed a whole lot, sadly. So yeah, there was a lot of secularism and it got a whole lot worse in the next generation.

There's no two ways about it. But it does illustrate how scientism can become a consuming worldview. And it seems to be not just amongst the people who study science, but in our society, that's the religion that we are being told we must bow the knee to now.