May 25, 2021 Show with Rodney C. Brown, Jr. on “Navigating the Treacherous Waters of Wokeness: A Practical & Pastoral Guideline”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions and now here's your host

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 25th day of May 2021 and I'm thrilled to have on the program today a first time guest that I've been meaning to and desiring to interview for quite some time.

His name is Rodney C. Brown Jr., a pastor and elder at the

Metro Bible Church of South Lake, Texas. You've actually been hearing his voice for months on this program as nearly every day one of the versions of the

NASB commercial that we air three times a day. The New American Standard Bible Publishers are sponsors of the show as you know and one of the versions of those ads that we run has included on it with other pastors

Rodney C. Brown's voice because he also has the

NASB as his Bible of choice and we thank him for helping us with that ad campaign that continues to this day thanks to the generosity of the publishers of the

NASB. We are going to be discussing today navigating through the treacherous waters of wokeness, a practical and pastoral guide, and we're also going to be promoting the wokeness and the gospel conference coming up next month, coming up more quickly than you know it, the 11th and 12th of June, and that's going to be held in Denton, Texas at the

Denton Bible Church and I will be there, God willing, manning an Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor's booth.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Rodney C.

Brown Jr. Well thank you Chris, I'm glad to be with you and just delighted to finally be on your show.

I really do sincerely appreciate the work you do and I'm just so edified by so many of these interviews and the way you do it, the way you break these things down for us, so thank you.

Well it's an honor for me to hear that from somebody of your caliber and why don't you let our listeners know something about Metro Bible Church of Southlake, Texas.

Sure, sure, well, Southlake is just north of the Dallas -Fort Worth area, we're out near the airport, been pastoring there for 16 years.

It was originally a Denton Bible Church plant and it is a sweet body of believers,

I would say what distinguishes us in a positive sense from so many others around here is that not only are we passionate about expositional preaching and elder leadership, real shepherding, but we are absolutely committed to life -on -life discipleship in a way that I've never seen before and that's all owing to God's grace and to the sweet family of believers.

But very much involved in one another's lives in a 2 Timothy 2 -2 fashion, entrusting these truths to faithful men who will be able to teach others also, and we're just so excited to be a part of this conference coming up because we've seen this coming down the pike for some time and really didn't know how to be part of the solution, how to, you know, as one beggar sharing with another beggar where the food is, you know, what we're learning, like Alistair Begg says that, here's what we're learning about it and so we want to share and I think this conference provides the opportunity.

And what would be the theological makeup of the Metro Bible Church? So we're

Reformed, Calvinistic. I would say we have a lot of time, we've had a lot of opportunities to take our doctrine out for a spin, so to speak.

So in Dallas -Fort Worth, we have three seminaries. We have Presbyterian Seminary, I believe it was

Westminster, I think it's RTS now. We have Dallas Seminary and we have Southwestern. And yet with all this teaching, it seems like Dallas -Fort

Worth always seems to be ground zero for something new and novel. So as the pastor who trained me, we love to not only study the

Bible with a heavy, clear understanding on the sovereign goodness of God and the gravity of man, his sweet election on our lives and on purchasing a bride at the cross, but also in winsomely but courageously defending the faith with the true gospel.

So we hold fast to the doctrines of grace, we unashamedly teach and preach them, and yet I would say,

Chris, we do it with a lot of first -generation Christians. You know, Metro Bible is a very young church chronologically.

The average age is about 32, a lot of first -generation Christians, a lot from broken homes, and yet we preach a heavy, clear doctrine, as it should be, and it is really embraced.

It's sweet. In a sea of seeker -sensitive churches and light and bright preaching, our people crave the

Word of God, and I'm very thankful for that. Amen. And if anybody wants to explore the website of Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas, that website is

MetroBible .org, MetroBible .org, and it just occurred to me, I started to chuckle to myself, when

I asked you what the theological makeup of Metro Bible Church is, I had posted on my

Facebook page a meme of a quote by Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

And the quote was, I ask you not if you are a Wesleyan, a

Baptist, or a Presbyterian, I only ask, are you born again? And one after another, people who know me kept saying, no, you ask if you're a

Calvinist. And I had to respond, yes, but context, context, context.

Obviously Spurgeon was just as concerned, if not more concerned, as I am about what someone believes in regard to the theology, but he was making the very clear point that one can claim theologically to be anything, but if you're not born again, you're going to hell just as fast if you are a professing

Calvinist who is not born again as a professing Jehovah's Witness, or whatever you are.

If you do not have the life of Christ in you, you could memorize the scriptures, and you could write a theological dictionary, but you need repentance and faith that is truly a gift of God and not an artificial profession.

Amen. So we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first -time guest on the program, a first -time guest that's a

Christian, there are rare occasions when I interview people who are not Christians because they have something to say that is very valuable for the body of Christ for some reason.

That is a rare occasion, but I do sometimes air non -Christians, and I make it clear that I'm not an ecumenist or that the person doesn't share my belief in the gospel, etc.

But when I have a Christian on, I always have them, when they are on the first time, give a summary of their salvation testimony, including the kind of theological or religious background they were raised in, if any, and what kind of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them. And so if you could, please give us your story.

Oh, that's a great question, and what a great opportunity to share the sweet love of our

Lord in saving His treasonous creation, so to speak, of which

I certainly was. You know, it's interesting, I would have said growing up that I grew up in just kind of a picture -perfect

Christian home, but it really wasn't until I got older that I realized at a young age both my parents became believers, and it radically not only changed their lives, but it changed how they raised me in the knowledge and admonition of the

Lord. My father was raised a Roman Catholic, wanted nothing to do with the

Bible, thought Protestantism was a cult. My mother was raised in moralistic

Protestantism, but by God's grace, through relationships and through the preaching of God's Word, He not only saved both of them, but radically changed their life to where they made the local church just the very center of our family.

And so at a young age, I started sitting under the Word of God, and I remember very distinctly when

I was probably seven or eight, just having an overwhelming sense of my sin and the judgment that would accompany it.

And after hearing, obviously, the Gospel many times, but I'm certainly sure that I didn't understand repentance and faith.

I remember getting down on my knees in my father's study and just entreating the

Lord to save me and to make me one of His own.

I had the privilege then after getting saved of being able to go to a

Christian school and be part of a good church. But there was another facet of my sanctification that the

Lord used mightily, and it was when I started college. It was in the mid -80s, and there was a real estate and oil crash here in Texas.

My father lost his job, and we ran out of money, so I had to come home. And I said, well,

Dad, I don't want to... I was going to Baylor University at the time. I said, well, Dad, I want to go somewhere. So I went to a nearby college, the

University of North Texas. I was not happy about it, and I found a church.

I thought, well, I need to find a church up here. So I went to Denton Bible Church back in 1987. And I thought at that time, being a

Christian who had been to Christian school, grown up in church, that I understood salvation well.

And I would say that I understood good justification, but I did not understand or have a good theology of God's sweet providence or His goodness.

And Tommy Nelson was a young pastor at the time, and he was preaching expositionally.

And I just remember having several months where I was gritting my teeth, even as a believer, because he was preaching a

God that was different than my picture. And how the

Lord just wore me down and gave me a clear understanding of, I would say, a biblical anthropology of who

I was and what God really accomplished at salvation. And he used that tablet to later on put me in ministry.

So those are two very important points in my life where the Lord not only saved me, but then

He directed me. And I would say both came directly from the preaching of God's Word.

And when did you realize that God had placed a call upon your life to enter into the ministry?

Yeah, that's interesting, Chris, because I probably have a different take than most people. I remember sitting down after graduating from college, and Paige Patterson at the time was president of Criswell College.

His son and I were friends. I was sitting at his kitchen table and bragging about the job that I just got in international trade.

And he was encouraging me to go to seminary, and I really wanted nothing to do with it.

And I went into business, enjoyed it, worked for a good man for many years, but was part of a church plant.

And about ten years into my career, I realized, I've got to get a quip.

Well, I'll go to seminary, but I'm just going to go just to become a better Sunday school teacher and maybe start a lay institute.

And I was out at the Shepherds Conference about halfway through my seminary.

My job was going well. I'd started my own business. I was going gangbusters and that in my mind, and the

Lord just convicted me. And I remember thinking, I don't even remember who was preaching, but I remember thinking very distinctly,

Lord, if you let me preach, I'll walk away from all this. And not only did

He draw me into ministry, in that sense, vocational ministry, but He opened doors that I never should have been the pastor of Metro Bible Church.

I never was experienced enough, and yet He just continued to place me in situations and place faithful men around me that helped me.

And so I took the pastorate in 2005, and Metro's been the only church I've ever pastored.

And hopefully I will be the only one. Hopefully I'll buy a gravestone here if they'll keep me.

Amen. Well, did Paige Patterson ever find out that you became a Calvinist?

Absolutely. I had to go repent to Paige. I had to repent to him even more when

I went to Dallas Seminary instead of Southwestern. But yeah. Yeah, it's just,

I would just encourage any of your listeners, you know, regardless of whether you're considering vocational ministry or not, there's really one calling in the

New Testament. It's a call to follow Christ, and getting more equipped to do what you do better doesn't necessarily mean seminary, but it does mean getting more serious about getting equipped and understanding your

Bible more. And that's how it started with me. You never know what the Lord's going to do with you. Well, tell us now, you already mentioned it, but tell us now in more detail about the

Wokeness and the Gospel Conference that I have been announcing every day, where you are one of the speakers, and where, again,

I will, as I said earlier, I will be manning an exhibitor's booth for the first time in Texas.

I've never spent an entire day in Texas in my life, and I'll be spending nearly five days,

I guess, because I'm going to be coming early and leaving a little after the conference since my brother, my oldest brother

John, who's 76 and has cancer and critical stage emphysema and an inoperable aneurysm, he lives nearby, and I'll be visiting with him and his family, and I ask the listeners to please pray for my interaction with my brother since he does not know the

Lord, and is obviously, with all these ailments, on top of his age, is on the brink of eternity.

But tell us about this conference that I'm very excited to attend. Tell us more about it, I should say. Yeah, well,

I'm excited just to be a part of it. I do a lot of work with Tom Buck, and we just had

Daryl Harrison here this weekend, Owen was here a few weeks ago, and the purpose of this conference is really this,

Chris, this is not a rally, this is not some sort of angry, let's get together and pound our drums.

This is saints gathering together and seeking to learn what we see as a very strong, clear, adversarial position against the gospel.

In fact, I'm preaching through Colossians right now, and it's just so clear when

Paul is talking to the church in Colossae, he says in chapter 2, verse 8, see to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, that this seems to fit, albeit a different heresy, worldly wisdom is always either lowering

God or raising man. It's seeking to supplant the person and work of Jesus Christ and replace it, replace it with either moralism or a structure whereby we gain our own forgiveness, our own favor with God, we seek to look better, but it's apart from the work of our

Lord Jesus Christ, and this philosophy, I think Tommy said it a couple weeks ago, what's so damning about it is that it is atheistic.

It's not built upon the foundation of God's Word, but it's built upon the wisdom of men.

And so when we started putting this conference together, we thought, okay, it's very important that we hit the right tone, the right tenor, it's very important that we not only equip well, but that we're able to gather together and exalt our

Lord Jesus Christ, worship, and I like to think of it this way, you've heard the old adage about the

FBI studied the original, those in the counterfeit department, studied the original so clearly and so well that they can discern a fake from a few yards away.

And so this didn't come about just because we simply wanted to take the latest flavor coming down the pike and beat on it a little bit, but that we felt like we needed to understand the gospel more clearly and how this is in direct opposition to Christology, how it not only impacts our justification, our understanding, but also our sanctification.

So we're going to have several main sessions. We're going to have a time of explanation.

Owen's going to do a great job of just walking us through and explaining terms, lining it up against Scripture.

Tom Buck is doing a breakout session on woke hermeneutics to teach us to recognize when pastors and preachers take the

Word of God and twist it to fit this new ideology. We're going to have preaching out of Colossians.

Tom Nelson is going to preach out of the Old Testament. And then we're going to do a lot of singing together, worship.

We're going to be able to come in and visit ministries like you. And the reason we wanted to do this is for church members, for Christians, and for people who are even not yet Christians but are seeking to understand this.

This is not some sort of pastor's conference. This is not some sort of conference that only seminarians would go to.

This is for the bride of Christ to gather together and learn how to give a defense for the hope that is within us, and how to recognize error, and how to be able to share this understanding with their church and with their friends.

And that's the topic today. We're going to talk a little bit about how do I practically navigate these waters.

And the speakers include Dr. Owen Stran, who you've been hearing mentioned by our guest.

Darrell Bernard Harrison, who's going to be my guest, God willing, on Thursday, this Thursday, to discuss this theme under a different subheading.

Pastor Tommy Nelson, who you've had on the program recently. And Pastor Tom Buck, who was actually our first guest on the program a number of weeks ago when we started promoting this conference.

Of course, you, Rod D. C. Brown, Jr., and someone that I've got to arrange an interview with that I have not yet arranged.

An interview with Pastor Charles Stolfus. And so I've got to get him on the phone at some point after the show today and see if we can get him on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio before the conference as well.

I'm very excited to hear of the response to this conference. I believe you have over 1 ,100 now registered?

I think we're going to hit 1 ,200 today. Wow, praise God. It's multiplying quickly.

And we're overwhelmed. We're really, really encouraged.

And not only that, Chris, they're coming from all over. We've got 31 different states.

And even two and a half weeks out, where plane tickets are getting expensive. I think people signed up in California yesterday,

Oregon, Arizona. They're coming from all over. And so our goal really is to make this not only a good experience, but something that will equip well.

And I know each one of these men, and they not only know their stuff, they've been studying this for years.

My goodness, Daryl Harrison was writing, he was writing about this ten years ago.

Tom Buck and I started studying this and looking at it seven years ago when we started to see just red flags in some of the ministries that we were involved with.

Of course, Owen has thought deeply about it. I'm reading his manuscript right now. His book comes out in two months.

It is absolutely outstanding. It's clear. It's easy to understand.

And yet it is just, it's rich. The depth of which,

I'm going to reread it when I finish this. And so we're just so thankful.

We know the Lord's doing something very, very special. Tommy Nelson, I had dinner with him yesterday.

He is totally behind this. And he's taken a beating for it, to be honest, Chris. All these guys are.

But you think someone who had been in ministry almost 50 years would be given the benefit of the doubt when he said, this is the most insidious thing

I've seen come down the pike in his ministry. And he was immediately just land blasted.

People mocked him. How could you, how could you treat CRT this way?

You're overreacting. You're just some, you know, old boomer, blah, blah, blah. And nobody's standing firm because he realizes that we're called to protect the flock.

And that's not only feeding them well, that's also teaching them what not to eat.

And who are lambasting these men? Who are attacking them other than perhaps just the leaders and the movers and shakers of this heretical movement?

Well, that's primarily it. But we've noticed, and I do my best to stay off social media, though I'm probably a voyeur.

I watch a little bit. And we've noticed that there's entire groups of followers in some big

Eva that immediately attack when it doesn't fit an agenda.

And so, you know, to be honest, Chris, I've taken a different approach here because a lot of these guys are my friends, and I've known for years.

And so I've reached out and I've given personal invitations to pastors and friends and well -known authors who

I know would openly disagree or would be very suspect with what we're doing.

And I've invited them to come. And I've said, please, will you come? I'll pay for your ticket.

Just come hear us out. Match it up against the

Word of God. Look, if we're overreacting, it's going to show itself in a matter of 24 or 36 months, tops.

I mean, time and truth go together. But here's the thing is, if we're seeing it rightly, and this is, in fact, an adversary to the

Gospel, then we cannot take it seriously enough. And I'm kind of disappointed at the responses

I'm getting, honestly. Well, we are going to our first station break right now.

And if you would like to join us with a question about the

Wokeness Movement, the Social Justice Warrior Movement, the

Critical Theory Movement, the Intersectionality Movement, the

Cancel Culture Movement, our email address is ChrisArnson at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors. I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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The Wokeness in the Gospel conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas June 11th and 12th.

Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org. Featuring speakers such as Dr.

Owen Strand. If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right. No, it's not.

Only Jesus Christ makes the world right. Daryl Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast. Sinners, like you and me, can be reconciled first and foremost to God, and consequently to one another.

Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lyndale, Texas. Like Satan in the Garden, woke hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the

Word of God. I don't say that lightly. Also here from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown.

Confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the church, and answering with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Wokeness in the Gospel conference coming to Denton Bible Church June 11th and 12th. Register online at wokenessandgospel .org.

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But we are back with our guest today, Rodney C. Brown Jr., who is a pastor and elder at Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas.

We are discussing Navigating Through the Treacherous Waters of Wokeness, a Practical and Pastoral Guide.

And this is to promote the upcoming Wokeness and the

Gospel Conference, June 11th and 12th in Denton, Texas. If you want more details about the

Wokeness and the Gospel Conference, go to wokenessandgospel .org, wokenessandgospel .org.

And we have, in fact, a friend of mine, Ed Moore, who has been a friend of mine going back to the early 90s, pastor of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens, New York.

I usually don't give out full names of my listeners when they send in questions, but since I want to plug his church, since it's such a theologically sound one,

I wanted to give out the full name and the full name of the church, North Shore Baptist Church of Bayside, Queens.

And Pastor Ed says, Welcome, Pastor Brown. As we get started, I want to know, is it difficult to fight wokeness and sustain a laughing revival at the same time?

Ed has a sense of humor, and he couldn't resist because of the similarities of your name to Rodney Howard Brown.

Yes, I can assure you, folks, there is no relation. I am not the

Rodney Howard Brown. And that's one of the reasons I'm emphasizing your middle initial

C, so nobody even thinks for a second that you are related to that charlatan.

But I just thought that I'd give a little comic relief there, and Ed is sure to provide it whenever he has an opportunity.

If anybody wants to find out more about North Shore Baptist Church, by the way, in Bayside, Queens, don't use that joke as a litmus test.

It's an excellent church. Go to ns -bc .org, ns for North Shore, dash bc for baptistchurch .org.

Well, perhaps we should start, you've already gotten into some of the background of wokeness, and we've had many programs on this subject, not only because we've been promoting the conference,

Wokeness and the Gospel, in Denton, Texas, but also because it's a very important topic to address, since it is agreed by many people who

I highly respect to be one of the most dangerous heresies of our modern age.

But even though we have addressed this many times, there are people who are listening for the first time to this show, and there are people who may have only heard wokeness described in the media, in the secular media, and they're not really getting an accurate picture.

Why don't you give us a summary of what it stands for, and then we can move into your specific duty today, which is to provide a practical and pastoral guideline, how to navigate through the dangerous and treacherous waters of this heresy.

Sure, yeah. You know, it helps to, it's an umbrella term, and I can list off several terms that would fall under it.

You know, there's social justice, intersectionality, critical race theory, economic restoration, white supremacy, equal outcome,

Black Lives Matter, all those can fall underneath it. But it all finds its roots in a socialistic ideology.

I remember several years ago, I was traveling in Hawaii and meeting with a pastor there named

Jay Wright, great guy, and this was years ago, and I said, what do you think about this whole social justice movement?

And he had been around the block enough to say, you mean socialism?

And I thought that was, he was very attuned to what was going on. If you know anything about socialism, which obviously comes from Marxism, Marx and Engels, it is an atheistic philosophy that stands against a clear understanding of a biblical anthropology of depravity of man, is atheistic,

God does not exist or is not the answer. And so whatever we see entering the church has flavors of that.

And as a result, the goals and the end results are contrary to the gospel.

If you think about it, it is the gospel that forgives. It is wokeness ideology that condemns.

It is the gospel that unites. It is wokeness ideology that divides based upon a myriad of factors.

And you may say, well, I'm only focusing on this aspect, but it's a boxcar theology.

It means that, you know, you may only agree that we want racial reconciliation, which is a very popular term.

But you need to realize the baggage that will come with that also includes intersectionality and also includes, many times, queer theory, et cetera, et cetera.

It goes down. And so that's why we get so much of the response, you guys are overreacting.

Don't you care about the oppressed? And so the way I started in educating our flock was with a disclaimer.

And I said, just because we disagree with these philosophies out there that divide people by race, by color, by gender, by economic status, whatever, doesn't mean that we don't agree that we want to help people.

And we first want to help people with what matters most, and that means the estate of their soul.

And with that, we don't just minister to people the estate of their soul, but we help them.

We care for them. And at Metro Bible Church, we not only give you the gospel, but we walk with you in feeding you.

And we also help, sometimes, you know, change careers.

We help provide for people. We do bring about justice, but it's a biblical justice.

It's a justice without partiality. And so it is hard to describe, but I would say it this way.

Locust ideologies are an umbrella term for philosophy, a worldly philosophy that finds its roots in a

Marxist ideology that is now showing itself in partiality based upon ethnicity.

Or based upon gender. Or based upon, to use a modern term, sexuality.

And when this enters the church, it has the exact opposite effect of what the gospel does.

It does not unite. It always divides. It does not free one from guilt.

It always brings about guilt. It does not provide forgiveness.

It brings about condemnation. And it all starts with those two anchors that have been loosed from their moorings, if you will.

The anchors of who the Bible says God is, and who man is.

And God is supremely holy. He is the creator. He is righteous. He is just.

Man is, as a result of the Adamic fall, in his own choices. He is supremely corrupt.

He is totally depraved. All his thoughts, all his desires prior to coming to Christ, may not be as wicked as they could be, but they are always self -serving.

And so to embrace an ideology that goes back, as Colossians says, and takes on the characteristics of the old man, is, well, it's very cunning by Satan.

I would put it that way. He's using the exact opposite of the gospel to infiltrate the

Church, and to distract from the truth. And he's being very effective right now.

Yeah, and everything that you are saying adds to the proof that it is really a lie.

This is a bait -and -switch situation. For those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with that term, bait -and -switch is where somebody, a company for instance, is advertising something, and when you go to the store, or you order online, or over the phone, whatever it is you think you're buying, you're getting something of infinitely less value than that which you saw or heard about in an ad.

Well, as far as racial reconciliation, everything that you just said indicates that there really is no intended reconciliation at all.

Yeah. There never has been, and that's the point. I believe there's two people, two leaders in this movement.

But there are those who sincerely know exactly what they're doing, and have nefarious motives.

And I think there are those that are willfully ignorant. And I'm going to be very careful about saying that, because the

Bible does not exonerate false teachers. In fact, if you look at Jude and 2

Peter, it is very clear about the motives. But I believe this second group that is willfully ignorant does not realize that the end result is not unity.

It is disunity. It is disillusionment. It is increased partiality.

It is increased envy. It is increased hate. And there is not forgiveness, nor will there ever be.

There is only penance, but that penance is never satisfied. And so, we told our congregation, when

I started this series, I said, let me just explain something. We do not divide over tertiary issues here.

It's wonderful if you want to have strong convictions about that, but we do not divide over tertiary issues.

This is not a tertiary issue. We all stand naked at the foot of the cross.

No one is to stand in judgment over one another. None of us deserve what

Christ has given us through His death and resurrection. This bit about people acting as your judge, or because of the melanin count in your skin, you are guilty by way of systemic racism,

I mean, that's, come on. The Bible does not deal with people according to either corporate guilt, nor does it deal with you according to the guilt of your fathers.

That is contrary to Scripture, and frankly, I think one reason why this is being accepted, to use a term like your bait and switch, hook, line, and sinker, is because pastors are not dealing with this in their congregation because it feels like a landmine.

They've got a split congregation. Some believe it, some are sympathetic, the other ones aren't, and they're trying to ride two horses, not realizing they're going to lose out on both sides.

And that's one thing I'm going to talk about at the conference, and I'm going to be hard on pastors. I'm going to encourage them and equip them, but I'm going to be hard on them.

Look, you guys signed up to care for a flock. Hebrews 13, 17 makes it clear that we're going to give an account for the souls that have been put in our care.

That means you must deal with this, and it's going to cost you. It's going to cost you a reputation.

It's going to cost you and some members, but you've got to go pursue sheep who are eating poisonous berries, and you've got to help them understand.

And that's not one sermon. That is getting down in the lives of people and walking with them until they understand and being patient.

At the first, that's 514. You're dealing with them according to the heart attitude, but you've got to pursue them because, you know, what we're reading in Hebrews right now is drifting has a destination,

Chris. Yeah, we're saved by grace through faith. We have eternal security, but genuine faith does not drift from the faith very long.

Amen. And when we come back from our midway break, we're going to be getting into the heart of practical and pastoral counsel regarding this horrible heresy, wokeness.

And please, if you have pastors that you know who could certainly learn from this, in fact, every pastor that you know could learn from this, whether it's your own or others, why don't you get on the phone during our station break and contact them or email them or text them or private message them or any way else you communicate these days and tell them to go to ironsharpensironradio .com

and start listening to this program because they don't want to miss the valuable content that will be coming up next after the midway break.

Also, folks, remember, this is a longer break than the other breaks in the show, so please be patient with us.

Use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers during this break so you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.

And if you can't patronize them, if you can't buy their products and use their services or visit their churches or contribute to their parachurch organizations, at the very least, please respond to our advertisers to thank them for sponsoring this show, if indeed you love this show and you really want it to stick around.

That will go a long way in keeping our advertisers happy because we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers to exist.

We need the income that comes from the advertisers. So please write down as much of the information that they provide as possible so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them.

And also write down questions for Rodney C. Brown, Jr., pastor of Metro Bible Church of Southlake, Texas, on navigating through the treacherous waters of wokeness, a practical and pastoral guideline.

We'll be right back after these messages, so don't go away. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, for the

G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all. My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including

Votie Baucom, Justin Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White.

More than 20 other speakers will be joining us, and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit G3conference .com. That's G3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.

This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in Southlake, Texas, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com That's nasbible .com to place your order.

The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.

Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org featuring speakers such as Dr.

Owen Strand. If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right. No, it's not.

Only Jesus Christ makes the world right. Daryl Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast. Sinners like you and me can be reconciled first and foremost to God and consequently to one another.

Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas. Like Satan in the garden, rote hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the

Word of God. I don't say that lightly. Also hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the church and answering with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference coming to Denton Bible Church June 11th and 12th. Register online at wokenessandgospel .org.

We are excited to announce another new member of the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family. Banu Gadi, owner of three

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Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Shop and Zion Radio recently.

Good to be back. Chris, I always enjoy our time. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Shop and Zion Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time at IronShopandZionRadio .com And what

I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth Love Parent exists. We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents

God called and created them to be. We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at TruthLoveParent .com As host of Iron Shop and Zion Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshipped and how

He shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GCBCNJ .squarespace

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654 That's 908 -996 -7654

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time, day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news. Subscribe to the

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Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform Rookie Podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking

Biblical truth. And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed Church that holds to the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino and thanks for listening. Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron Podcast. I consider

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

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This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

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I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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Before we return to our guest today Rodney C. Brown Jr. Pastor and Elder at Metro Bible Church of South Lake, Texas who is also one of the speakers at the

Wokeness and the Gospel Conference this June 11th and 12th in Denton, Texas at the

Denton Bible Church where I will be manning an exhibitors booth once again well not once again

I've never been to Denton, Texas before but once again meaning I'll be manning another exhibitors booth but before I return to that discussion with Pastor Brown we have some important announcements to make you've been hearing the commercials for the

G3 Conference some of those ads include a mention of Votie Baucom as one of the speakers on the roster there is now a question mark next to Votie Baucom's name because for those of you who do not know not long ago he suffered a serious health setback and had quadruple bypass surgery so he is recovering and from what

I understand he's doing well but he is not out of the woods and it is left to be seen whether he is going to be well enough healthy and strong and energetic enough to be able to resume his post as one of the speakers at the

G3 Conference so please pray for Votie that he fully recovers in fact perhaps that he's stronger and healthier than ever before as a result of this trial in his life and I know that his wife and many children want him around a lot longer as does the body of Christ at least those that truly appreciate him like I do we want him to stick around this earth as heaven is definitely a better option we want him here for as long as possible to continue to bless the body of Christ with his wisdom and his gifts so continue to pray for Votie Baucom also mark on your calendars although every day is an excellent day to tune in to Iron Trip and Zion Radio because we always have excellent guests in my opinion and excellent topics

Monday through Friday but this Thursday we have one of the speakers at the

Wokeness in the Gospel Conference returning to this program Darrell Bernard Harrison he is not only on he is not only on the team the ministerial team at Grace to You the media ministry of John MacArthur but he is also co -host of the

Just Thinking podcast along with Virgil Walker and so they are possibly even going to be together this

Thursday we haven't heard a confirmation from Virgil whether he'll be joining Darrell but we certainly have

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Brown Jr. of the Metro Bible Church of South Lake, Texas on navigating through the treacherous borders of wokeness a practical and pastoral guideline

Pastor Brown you were saying before that unfortunately there are pastors who would even agree with you and I that this is a dangerous movement this wokeness movement might even believe like you and I that it could be the greatest assault on the gospel in the 21st century but they prefer to stay out of the fight they think they have no dog in this fight as the saying goes they would rather be a spectator and just wait for the dust to settle

I've asked almost every guest if not every guest that has addressed this issue if Christians especially those in leadership have the liberty to do that what's your opinion?

Pastor Brown yeah I would say absolutely not they do not have the liberty to do that as Titus you know one night is clear about we not only teach formatively but we also teach correctively

I think the misnomer in this case is even those who maybe even understand the danger think well it will pass and we literally don't have that option

I think what I would come back and say again is not only will it not pass but what you win them with you keep them with and so you're not only going to be kicked to the curb by those who become woke and by the way that the embracing wokeism is it never satisfies it's never enough because the only way they go and said this well on your show the only way especially if you are you know white heterosexual the only way to atone is penance the penance of anti -racism you cannot just simply say

I disagree with racism you can't even say I'm not racist and so when you when you win people in your congregation through nursing a grudge that's a phrase

I like to use a lot you know whether it be by their ethnicity or or their gender or whatever else when you're winning them with that nursing a grudge it flies in the face of the gospel especially in Colossians you know chapter 3 when it talks about Christ who is our life or in Galatians 2 20 there's old things that pass away and new things that come or a new creation our identity is found in him but when you place your ethnicity as your number one identity or your sexuality or your gender or whatever as your identity there will always be division and so the pastors will lose those people eventually because he won't be vocal enough for the woke and even if he is he'll never be able to satisfy all the woke but here's even the greater danger those in your congregation that end up seeing it rightly and they will they will give it enough time they will have lost respect for you as their pastor because you were unwilling to lead teaching elders are to be on the cutting edge of understanding the depth of systematic theology of preaching expositionally we're always supposed to run harder and faster than the rest of the congregation and so therefore to turn a blind eye in a deaf ear or to try to as we say in Texas to ride two horses you're going to lose out on both sides and I've had this conversation multiple times with pastor friends of mine who say yeah yeah

I kind of see what you're saying Rod yeah I know it's kind of a problem but I just don't feel like I really need to address it right now and as kindly as I can say it

I say brother you will have to address it address it when you can do it from the pulpit and these people are in your care don't address it when they vote with their feet and walk out now what would be some of the ways that you as a faithful Bible believing pastor an under shepherd of a flock there in South Lake Texas what would some of the pastoral ways that you approach this issue that would have uniquely congregational problems regarding the woke movement yeah

I love that question Chris and that's my passion is for congregational involvement is for unity in the church and this is

I think MacArthur says it well he says evangelicals are always late to the game on this stuff and if we're late to the game discernment wise and theologically we're even later to the game when it comes to practical implementation on how to handle it and so this is this is my this is what

I hope to be my wheelhouse we're learning daily but here's what I do know and I'll speak more about this at the conference this has to be a top down solution meaning the elders have to be on the same page at Metro Bible we practice what's called unanimity we don't make a decision we don't vote as elders we only agree on something when we all agree on it and so what

I would encourage fellow pastors fellow elders even just congregants to encourage your pastors and elders to get on the same page and if you have to take 30, 60, 90 days it should not take longer than 60 days but if you have to take a couple of months and you guys need to wipe everything off the church calendar and bury yourself in the book to understand this you need to understand the depth of Christology you need to understand the dangers of this movement and I would say it needs to be understood with the twin lenses think about glasses the twin lenses of our identity in Christ and the sufficiency of Christ if you get those two lenses right there's a whole lot that falls into place and so understanding that when we become believers through the gifts of faith and repentance when we are regenerated we are a new creation we have a new identity there is no

Jew, Greek, barbarian, Scythian, there's slave freedom it all becomes such a distant identity in the rear view mirror it doesn't even come close to our identity in Christ and then also understanding the sufficiency of Christ that his what was accomplished at the cross with the person and work of Jesus Christ so that therefore no one is to act as your judge if you look at the heresies in Galatia or in Colossae they had a

Jewish secretism to it and it was it says in Colossae chapter 3 do not lie to one another and I think with that saying in context because the verse shortly after it is there's no

Greek or Jew or slave or freeman I think that lying to one another is basically saying you either need to be more like me and so therefore you need to do this or not do that or you need to quit being like you but God has favor and this is how you gain favor with God so I would start the first step is get your elders on the same page knowing their

Bibles and then as C .S. Lewis says also understanding the bad philosophy understanding how it compares

I would encourage listen to Daryl and Virgil's three and a half hour podcast on critical race theory read

Vody's book Faultline if your elders are just constantly looking to their pastor to do all their studying you either need to get on board or replace them these guys need to rightly handle the word of God once we get the elders on the same page acting as one man we need a bulwark of men and women who also can understand this because one, two, three, five, six elders can only impact so many people so I've got a group of future leaders that I disciple about a dozen guys they come to my house at 6 a .m.

on Wednesday we spend about an hour and a half together and we go through a lot of really not only theology but a lot of discernment a lot of biblical counseling they're in training to be elders one day and it takes you about four to five years to develop an elder but I get these guys on the same page both theologically ecclesiologically practically and then we spend enough time with them and their wives that they get on the same page as a family unit and so now

I've got 12 families that really understand what's going on and most of them most of those men are small group leaders so then the next level would be this is what we talk about in our small groups so our small groups while they have while we have prayer and fellowship and Bible study it's all important it's primarily for pastoring and so we go through the application of the previous week sermon and so if you kind of think about this top tier top down approach elders are on the same page preaching it from the pulpit training you know a dozen men or how many you can get together a dozen families really is what it ends up being promulgating it through shepherding pastorally with great patience through small groups and then finally also having those small group leaders in addition to other small groups do personal life on life discipleship and then we watch the word of God work when someone says hey pastor

I don't know that I agree with this or I think you're making a big deal out of this we turn and we say hey

I'd be glad to talk with you about this I want to spend time with you about this come and serve with us you know so the trains move and we're just saying come with us come serve and we'll talk along the way we don't stop the whole flock to turn around and address someone's grievances we'll talk with them we want them to serve with us and that's just that's just a skeleton but if I could give that to any pastor and say move that dial by working it from the top down then

I would say the Lord will honor it we have an anonymous listener the anonymous listener says

I am a member of a church that I love where the teaching is excellent and thoroughly biblical but sadly it is one of those churches where this topic appears to be taboo although I hope it is not always going to remain that way there seems to be a fear of offending people unnecessarily and therefore it is not being brought up at the pulpit or in Bible studies my question is how do we get humility approach our elders about this and lovingly rebuke them for this it has come to the point when even during private conversations with fellow members of the church people are wondering when we do public outreach and evangelism whether or not we should invite black people in the community into our own church or whether we are obligated to refer them to a predominantly black church because that seems to be the woke ideology which amazingly is the same ideology of racists in the past who believed thoroughly in segregation tell me what you think

I should do in regard to our leaders what an excellent question and I am immediately thinking of somebody

I am not going to mention this person's name even though they are deceased but there is a very well known pastor that is highly regarded for his theological acumen and his abilities to preach and teach and so on he was a southern baptist pastor very famous one and leader but he was a segregationist and he

I can even remember when he was being asked about this during an interview on a secular news program years ago he was asked about his views on segregation and he said with a big smile on his face well you know the old saying birds of a feather flock together it's just a well known fact that people who look alike who are from the same backgrounds they just get along better and have a more enjoyable time in this life and a more productive time when they're with their own and so that's why we believe it's better that people who are from the black community stay with their own and people with the white community stay with their own and the people from the hispanic community stay with their own and the amazing thing is that the vast majority of enlightened individuals would view that as being racist in fact the apostle paul would as far as i'm concerned but today that is being basically taught by the woke movement isn't this insane yeah it absolutely is if i could address first of all i appreciate that question so much because it sounds like it's just it's coming from a heart to be part of the solution rather than the problem and i just as an elder i mean i can handle anything as long as someone comes to me with the right heart and so just i appreciate that and if i could address the second part of it first because you know sure everyone's going to respond to what you just said rightly so and say with righteous anger that is blasphemous as they should and i wholeheartedly agree and then we're sort of left with yeah but i don't know how i don't know practically how to do it right do i then just go target different skin colors or different cultures or do i value someone over the other and if i can just take a minute and speak speak with with what the lord's doing at our church which is so undeserving of us but uh we just give him all the glory because it's so exciting we're not a large church we're in a predominantly uh white area a very wealthy area though our church is not wealthy and and we determined a few years ago that you know what that that real missions outside the four walls of this church of this church is asking ourselves what people people are we not reaching and why it makes no difference what what color what tribe what culture whatever but who are we not reaching okay and so we drew like a circle you know a ten mile circumference around and we said who are we not reaching and we realized you know what we've got a lot of latinos in this area we need to we need to reach latinos okay and yet and yet there is a language barrier so i started to learn spanish um the lord providentially provided a peruvian intern we took bold moves and we started singing some of our verses in spanish um i learned to even occasionally preach in spanish okay but here's the interesting thing we did that not because they were hispanic or because they were a different color but because we weren't reaching them and that was the only reason and here's the interesting thing do you know who the lord brought us he didn't bring us what we expected we expected for him to bring us mexican he brought us lots of south americans and if you look at the makeup of even our worship team today i joke with them i said how did you guys ever end up here i mean i've got a congolese a peruvian a chileno a brit an indian a half indian you know and we joke about it because none of it was based upon tribalism or race it was based upon people sharing the gospel with another and breaking down those barriers to get the gospel to them and so i agree that is not only that blasphemous but the response is pursue anyone and everyone with the gospel and then let the lord make up your church however he'll do it and so then and i reject this anti -racism this bird of a feather which like you said is the new that is the new thing being repeated i feel like i'm going back to the 60s which is horrible yeah i mean the whole the ideology of those who are opposed of racism opposed to opposed to racism and we have to admit that liberals uh...

really took charge of this years ago to the shame of conservatives and bible believing christians but not that there weren't christians that believed in this and fought against racism but i'm just saying it it seemed that the fight against it was dominated by liberals but the famous quote and it's a very true quote that was often used is the same uh...

quote or the same statement made in the famous speech by dr martin luther king not that i agreed with his theology or even view him uh...

as a bonafide regenerate christian man he did have some very heretical views uh...

that denied the pillars of the faith of christianity but uh... he believed in viewing and treating his neighbor not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character and and and the phrase that was often used by those who oppose racism was being colorblind now it's considered racist racist to be colorblind yeah and we have to fight back against we have to push back against that one of my friends says it well he said you know it's hard when someone comes up and says well do you believe in black lives matter it's hard to give a full dissertation as to all the problems with that and it sounds very uncompassionate but but here's how he responded initially to get the conversation going no i love black people too much to support that organization and you know and it gives them a chance excellent hey we our new nature does away with identity politics there is no tribalism there there there isn't and i'll tell you the other thing is this woke -ism i was in international trade for sixteen years and did a lot of work with USAID with underdeveloped countries and i'd like to say that even from an economic perspective the very people you are trying to help with this ideology this the oppressed quote unquote are the very people that will get the most hurt it's just a true cross the board but if i could address how do you approach your elder with it because here's here's the key and this is this is where we need to start going with this is as people grow in discernment how can i make a difference without coming across as arrogant without becoming an adversary to my pastor or elders and i think first of all you must love believes all things you must believe the best either they're not aware of it or they're they're fearful which i'm not giving them a pass on that okay or worse yet they're willfully ignorant which i'm not giving them a pass on okay but let's do all those things short of being nefarious by not addressing it okay fear of man how do i deal with it well being part of the solution i would really encourage you first of all to be willing to put yourself in a situation where you might um be dismissed you might even be humiliated but you're going to be willing to take it for the cause of christ and what i mean by that is ask your elders kindly may i please come uh to the first few minutes of an elder meeting and you go and hat in hand you express your concern you're not there to win an argument but you express your concern from what you're reading express your concern from what you're hearing you may even you know take a few um quotes or twitter feeds from maybe people that your pastor respects that might be woke now and go hat in hand and say i'm concerned about this because this seems contrary to the gospel and i'm asking would you as elders be willing rather than just responding to me even though i'm sure you're well learned would you spend some time studying this genuinely studying this would you at least read vody's book would you at least read or listen to this and ask them to engage because many times there is one or two elders that really are very well aware of what's going on and there are several others who are administrators but if you can get all of these men studying the bible together and they are believers i believe that the holy spirit will convict them and then here's the thing if they don't be kind meet with them again do an exit interview and then leave that church but you don't leave nasty you don't post it on social media you don't rail against them and you pray for them but you do the best to make a change and in many cases wrapped in prayer the lord may change their hearts they could just be fearful and then when they hear a sheep that is saying i need you to lead in this area please maybe the lord will prick their heart to do so yeah just imagine if many if not most christians followed that example and counsel during the the days when segregation was dominant and they approached their pastors about that this was with the fact that this is a sinful practice and a sinful just think of how things might have changed much earlier in this nation in regard to genuine bigotry and discrimination and hatred yeah i mean chris i think the stats are a pastor leaves a church over five vocal people that pastor may be fearful because he thinks he's all alone in this wow i didn't hear from you you know that's interesting that you say that because i have a number of friends dear friends who were driven out of churches for false reasons unbiblical reasons and in every case of the men that i particularly know in person very well that was the very case that it was a handful of people that weren't even necessarily leaders but they were viewed as leaders because of the money they gave but we have to go to our final break it's a lot more brief than the other breaks if you have a question send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the usa we'll be right back with rod dc brown after these messages we'll be right back with rod dc brown we'll be right back with rod dc brown we'll be right back with rod dc brown after these we'll be after these we'll be right back with rod dc brown after these messages we'll be right back with rod dc brown after these we'll be right back

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Fellowshiping with the family. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference is coming to Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.

Register now by going online to wokenessandgospel .org. Featuring speakers such as Dr.

Owen Strand. If you just buy this ideology, the world's going to be made right. No, it's not.

Only Jesus Christ makes the world right. Daryl Harrison of the Just Thinking Podcast. Sinners, like you and me, can be reconciled first and foremost to God, and consequently to one another.

Pastor Tom Buck of First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas. Like Satan in the Garden, woke hermeneutics undermines the very authority of the

Word of God. I don't say that lightly. Also hear from Tommy Nelson, Charles Stolfus, and Rodney Brown.

Confronting the lies being impressed upon the culture today, threatening even to divide the Church, and answering with the

Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference coming to Denton Bible Church, June 11th and 12th.

Register online at wokenessandgospel .org. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

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O hail the power of Jesus' name.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back, and Pastor Brown, we have a question from John in Bangor, Maine, who says, there's an old saying that we can eat the meat and spit out the bones when it comes to teachers and authors and other leaders who have a great wealth of knowledge in many areas of life and perhaps the

Bible, but have some erroneous, false, and perhaps even dangerous teaching.

Can we have that liberty today when it comes to those who promote wokeness and yet may have other things of value to say?

Yeah, that's a good question, and if I could address one thing about that, because there is a challenge with Bible -sincere,

Bible -believing Christians who've gotten into discernment ministries who have a horizontal theological priority list, and so they will divide with everyone, even over matters of eschatology or, you know, call someone not a

Christian if they take a different view on, you know, polity or something.

But the fact is, is that we can chew the meat and spit out the bones on secondary and tertiary issues.

This is a primary issue, because it impacts directly the gospel of our

Lord Jesus Christ. So, I would say in this case we cannot, and the reason it does is because, again, these are atheistic ideologies, and that's one thing that is so concerning to me with, you know,

I hate to use the term, but with Big Eva here, with some of these well -known teachers. You guys are more degreed than we are.

You are more learned. You understand the original languages better than we do. Why are you allowing something to come stand against the gospel of grace?

And that's really what this is. This is standing against the gospel of grace. And so, therefore, you cannot eat it.

It'd be like someone put a little bit of poison, you know, in your porridge. You just can't do it.

And this will shake out, Chris. I mean, this is the sad part. For these fellows in the middle who are being drawn along by what

I would call worldliness masked as compassion or this new moralism, and it feels compassionate, it will shake out, and they will be men without a country, without a church, because they will never be liberal enough to completely go headlong into apostasy, and yet they will have walked away from the purity of the gospel.

So, I would say no, you can't. Amen. And I would like you, I'm sorry for those of you who wanted your questions to be read live.

We don't have time, but perhaps when we have Darrell Bernard Harrison on this

Thursday, you can forward your questions then, or resend them,

I should say. But if you could spend the next three minutes or so to summarize what you most want answered in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Yeah. I think what I want, because I think

I understand your listening audience, and I know they're not monolithic, but I think what I would encourage, that I would earnestly pray for is, to go back to that question, be part of the solution in keeping your church healthy.

Meaning, study well, entreat your leaders to take a position, to shepherd through, even though it will be difficult.

We're believers. We can work through this together, because the Bible is our standard. But don't go off on your own on this thing.

It does no good if you're right and you're alone. Do your best to bring your church along, to bring your pastor and elders along.

If you're a pastor, get hold of Chris. He's got my number. Call me. Let me encourage you.

Let me be a friend to you and walk through this with you. But take a stand.

This is what we were called to do. Amen. And by the way, Pastor Brown, send my regards to your lovely bride,

Joy. It dawned on me, I finally put two and two together, who she was. She was the key person helping to orchestrate the sponsorship of the

Wokeness and the Gospel Conference campaign on my program.

And I just realized, wait a minute, Joy Brown, this is Pastor Brown's wife. She's the one that gets all the credit.

It is amazing what she's done. And she's got a better friendship and relationship with all the exhibitors and speakers.

I'm riding her coattails on this thing. We are very appreciative for her hard work. Thank you for mentioning that.

Amen. Well, don't forget, folks, that the conference, the

Wokeness and the Gospel Conference, is being held at Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas, June 11th and 12th.

I will be there, God willing, Manning, an Iron Troupe and Zion Radio exhibitor's booth. I hope you join me.

And for details, go to WokenessandGospel .org, WokenessandGospel .org.

I'm so excited to hear that nearly 1 ,200, maybe even over 1 ,200, are going to be attending.

I hope many of you are listeners to Iron Troupe and Zion Radio. And I hope to see you, some of you, for the first time ever, when you stop by my exhibitor's booth and meet and greet me.

And I look forward to us all learning together this June 11th and 12th in Denton, Texas.

That's WokenessandGospel .org, WokenessandGospel .org. Also, don't forget to find out more information about Metro Bible Church in Texas, to be more specific, the

Wokeness Bible Church. I'm sorry, the Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas.

Go to MetroBible .org, MetroBible .org. I want to thank everybody for listening today.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.