War of the Worldviews with Frank Sherwin

Okay, and my part, there we go. Okay, so just as our reminder, especially if you're new with us tonight, is that we ask everybody to keep their microphones and cameras off during Frank's presentation, and that that way it's not a distraction to anybody, especially since we're recording and live streaming.

If you have any questions for him during the presentation, if you're here in Zoom or if you're following along on Facebook, you can put your questions into chat and we'll ask him them during the Q &A time after his presentation.

So with that, I am Terri Kammerzell here on behalf of Creation Fellowship Santee. We're a group of friends bound by our common agreement that the creation account as told in Genesis is a true depiction of how God created the universe and all life from nothing in just six days a few thousand years ago.

We've been meeting here on Zoom most Thursday nights since June of 2020. We've been blessed with presentations by pastors, teachers, doctors, prophecy speakers, cartoonists, scientists, apologists, and all around smarty pants people who love the Lord and have a message to share.

You can find most of our past videos by searching Creation Fellowship Santee, that's S-A-N-T-E-E on YouTube. You can also find us at Creation Fellowship on Bitchute and CFS 2020 on Rumble. Follow our Creation Fellowship Santee Facebook page and sign up for our email list by emailing creationfellowshipsantee at gmail .com so you don't miss any of our upcoming speakers.

Tonight we're blessed to have somebody from one of our founding ministries, our little museum in Santee where we used to meet was actually started by ICR. And so we have an ICR speaker with us tonight, Frank Sherwin.

Frank received his bachelor's degree in biology from Western State College in Gunnison, Colorado in 1978. He attended graduate school at the University of Northern Colorado where he studied under the late Gerald D. Schmidt, one of the foremost parasitologists in America.

In 1985, Dr. Sherwin obtained a master's degree in zoology. He published his research in the peer-reviewed Journal of Parasitology. In 2021, he received an honorary doctorate of science from Pensacola Christian College.

He contributes his scientific expertise to a variety of ICR's publications on creation science and is one of ICR's most sought after speakers. He is the author of the Ocean Book and Guide to Animals, co-author of the Fossil Record and Earthing Nature's History of Life and the Human Body and Intelligent Design and a contributor to the Guide to Creation Basics and Creation Basics and Beyond.

So with that, Frank, I'm happy to turn it over to you.

Okay.

Introduction to the War of the Worldviews

Well, Terri, let me first of all say that all of my years of doing presentations, I would say yours is one of the top three polished and professional introductions that I ever had. And believe me, I have never said that before.

And so Terri, my hat is off to you. You have done an exceptional job in introducing your ministry and yours truly. So with that, I'd say thank you. And I would have to say also as the infamous King Henry VIII of England told his six wives, I won't keep you long.

Thank you. Thank you. So we're gonna go ahead and look at something very important this evening, the War of the Worldviews. And I think to begin with, we all have a worldview, do we not? We all have a philosophical outlook on life as we look at how we came here, how we came to be, what our purpose in life is and very importantly, where we're going when we die.

Before I get into that, let me invite you to the ICR Discovery Center here in Dallas. And if you ever find yourself in Northern Texas, you will have no excuse to visit the Discovery Center, plan on staying here all day because the Discovery Center has a lot of interactive presentations and exhibits.

You will see a large animatronic dinosaur, a T-Rex, all sorts of other displays and computer enhanced and things that you can use to ask questions regarding the earth and creation science. And of course, we have a planetarium as well.

So you can view the planetarium at the various shows that we have and we have a coveted Ice Age Theater. And there are two presentations in the Ice Age Theater and we as creationists believe that we have the secular evolutionary community beat when it comes to the Ice Age.

Ice Age occurred only thousands of years ago. It occurred right after the Genesis flood, which is approximately 4 ,500 years ago. And so you can check out the rest of that at our ICR Discovery Center.

When you come to visit, you go ahead and let me know and we'll go out to lunch. You pay and I'll pray. I think that'll work out just right. Okay, well, to use a foundational verse and kind of set things in order, as it were, when it comes to this war of the worldviews, Psalm 11 says, if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?

And certainly that is true in this very volatile, important, critical issue called the war of the worldviews that pits evolutionary naturalism against biblical Christianity. Well, the church is in decline.

Just to give you some more bad news, what we find is Americans' worship and houses of worship, membership and houses of worship continued to decline last year, dropping below 50 for the first time in Gallup's 80-year trend.

And there's no reason to believe that that is the lowest it's ever been in the history of the United States. Just last year, 47 of Americans said they belong to a church, synagogue or mosque, down from 50 in just 2018 and 70 in 1999.

And so we find that things are declining spiritually, at least when it comes to organized worship in this country in a hurry. Well, why Americans' nuns, and maybe you've heard that phrase before as it describes the latest generation as they literally and figuratively turn their back on the church and God.

Why do they leave religion behind? Well, Lipka, a researcher said August of 2016, this includes many respondents who mentioned science as the reason they do not believe in religious teachings. A survey was taken by Dr. Lipka and he found these were the two most prominent reasons that the young people gave as they said no to Christ and no to church.

First, they said learning about evolution when I went away to college. Well, that's kind of interesting because when I went away to secular college in Gunnison, Colorado, my faith was strengthened as I studied the biological sciences as an undergraduate.

The second reason was lack of any sort of scientific or specific evidence of a creator. Well, once again, as we study God's living creation and the biological sciences, I have to agree with what the apostle said in Romans chapter one and verse 20, where Paul said that God's creation, even though it's been corrupted by sin, God's creation is not only seen, but the apostle Paul adds an extra word.

He says that God's creation is clearly seen. God's creation is clearly seen. And so in reference to what Paul says in Romans 1 .20, it kind of negates what these two excuses were as these young people gave for their reason of leaving the church.

First Peter 3 .15 is one of my favorite verses that I taught our four children as they were growing up in Pensacola and then also right there in San Diego. The apostle Peter said in chapter three, but first, but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks of you, a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and with fear.

Now, the apostle Peter is saying to have this apologetic, the word there is an apologia that says knowing why you should believe what you believe. And so when you talk to many Christians today and students and so forth, they might say, well, yeah, okay, I believe in creation, but very few know why they believe in creation and what they believe.

And so this is very important issue of the war of the worldviews that we find ourselves embroiled in today in the 21st century. I always like to share John 14 .6, where it says, Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life.

And no one comes to the father except by me. And so what we see is the Lord Jesus Christ is saying, he is the only way, he is the way, he is the truth and he is the life and that no one comes to God except through Jesus Christ.

John 14 .6, a very important verse when we are sharing our faith with others. So what is science? This is a question that people ask a lot. And sometimes the critics of creation like to say, well, those ICR speakers never even define what science is.

So let me put that to rest right now this evening. Science is a systematic study of phenomena based on experimental investigation, including that which can be observed and tested and repeated. So the big question this evening is, are creationists opposed to science?

Or as many, many critics of creation say, creationists are anti-science. Well, folks, that's ridiculous. We embrace science. We love science at ICR. And the scientists involved in ICR, both in the life sciences, such as yours truly, and the physical sciences like geology and physics, we love science very much.

Now we have a real issue with this strange philosophy that says that people came from bacteria. That is not science. That's philosophy. And as you'll see in the presentation this evening, we try and make a real clear distinction between where philosophy leaves off and true empirical science begins.

Now, empirical science is right there on the screen, what we can observe and test and repeat. Who would be opposed to that? Most certainly not the creation scientists. We believe that in the beginning, God, and that God was there, and God is the creator of science.

And so when we do science, we are attempting to think God's thoughts after him. And we are very blessed by the research that we do at, where else? The Institute for Creation Research. So that's what we do.

And so we feel at ICR, and again, we love science, that science and the Bible, science and the scripture go together like butter and bread. Science and the Bible are inextricably linked, just like politics and corruption.

You just can't, well, you can't separate them. And so what is empirical science? That which can be observed and tested and repeated. We love it. So as one atheist said, he's not an atheist anymore because he's dead, but Linus Pauling, a two-time Nobel Prize winner, said, science is the search for truth.

Well, certainly we agree with that. Science is the search for truth. Do you remember how I read John 14, six, just a few minutes ago? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way and the truth and the life, and that no one comes to the father except by me.

We attempt to think God's thoughts after him. And so we are attempting to describe and define and discover truth. And that's what science is all about, the search for truth, the effort to understand the world.

And so how much more satisfying can it be to understand that Jesus is the creator of all things? He said he is the truth. And so as a scientist, I'm investigating, in other words, thinking God's thoughts after him.

It turns out that scientific research, at least by the creation scientists, is a form of worship. The investigation of God's living creation is a form of worship, even though the creation has been corrupted by sin.

We understand that. God cursed the earth, didn't he? He cursed the earth with weeds and thorns and thistles. My particular field is that of parasites. I'm a parasitologist, an invertebrate zoologist. And so I try to think God's thoughts after him as I investigate what parasites might have been prior to the fall of our first parents, Adam and Eve.

Well, that gets into a field called theoretical science. Can we do theoretical science? Absolutely. The evolutionist does theoretical science all the time. Certainly that is true for the creationist as well.

And so we conduct, we do theoretical science. In my field, what were parasites prior to the fall? And so that's the work, for example, that I do. So science is a search for truth that is eminently true and very satisfying, especially for the creation scientist who sees Jesus as the creator.

So with that in mind, empirical science, that in which we can observe and test and repeat, let's look at this quote on the screen right here. At 13 .8 billion years ago, our entire observable universe was the size of a peach and had the temperature of over a trillion degrees.

Now, the question in the evening is, as we had talked about empirical science, that which can be observed and tested and repeated, is this statement that we see by Paul Sutter just a few years ago, is this scientific?

And the answer is, of course not. Of course not. This was a one-time event that occurred in the unobserved past. Let me repeat that. This was a one-time event that occurred in the unobserved past. And so this is not empirically verifiable.

And so we would have to ask this following question as we discuss the War of the World Views. How does Paul Sutter know that? How does he know that? Or is that part of his philosophy? Now, right away, the atheist who's listening, perhaps, might say something like this.

Well, sure, when you're just a creationist, you believe that in the beginning God created, that was a one-time event that occurred in the unobserved past. And you know what? The atheist is true. But we have a more, ours is a more logical basis, a foundation, because we have faith in God, someone who was there when?

In the beginning. The atheist has faith in something that can never be documented or verified. Nobody was there for the atheist to see what happened 13 .8 billion years ago. But ours is a more reasonable faith because our faith is based on one who was there, as I say, in the beginning.

The evolutionist has a faith, but it's a faith in nobody and nothing. He or she just has a faith that that event happened impossibly long ago. So we would say, yes, this is a faith versus a faith issue, but ours is a more reasonable faith because we have faith in one who was there in the beginning.

So we would maintain at ICR that science without debate is propaganda. I thoroughly believe that. Science without debate is propaganda. And I have a quote from an individual here, and you see it there on the screen.

A fair result can be obtained only by fairly fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question. Do you believe that? I certainly believe that. That is absolutely true.

However, the person who said this is kind of amazing, kind of surprising. And, well, it may surprise you to find out who it is that said that a fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts.

Who said this? Charles Darwin. Charles Darwin said that in his infamous book, The Origin of Species, published in 1859. I was on new jobs five years ago, drove to downtown San Diego, got to the studio.

A guy put a mic on my lapel and he said, three, two, one, the camera light came on and I was on new jobs. And so this is one of the quotes that I shared as opposed to the evolutionary atheist, a lady who was vehemently opposed to creation science.

But, hey, this says it all right here in this quote. And this is especially true when it comes to America's taxpayer paid public schools. And so I think as an official US taxpayer, that a fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and the arguments on both sides of each question.

And then American taxpayer paid public schools, that is not observed. Well, we believe at ICR that the history book of the universe is the Bible. You heard me say a few minutes ago, the Bible written by someone who was there in the beginning.

Creation was a one-time event that nobody saw happen except with the creator that he faithfully recorded what happened in the beginning. So the real issue is God's word versus man's word. This is the issue of the war of the world views as we talk about it today.

The loss of biblical authority is the root of the decline of Christian America. If you remember those statistics that we looked at a few minutes ago at the beginning of the presentation, it's because of the loss of biblical authority.

More and more people are saying no to scripture, no to what happened in the past according to one who was there and faithfully recorded what happened. Well, evolutionists build their worldview on Darwin.

Published in 1859, this book turned the Western world upside down with what it said. Ironically, Darwin never addressed the origin of the species in his book entitled The Origin of the Species. But his book was very popular both in his day in 1859 and also in the 21st century, why?

Well, it has nothing to do with science and everything to do with the philosophical conviction. Darwin's book is popular today as well as when he published it because it explains creation without a creator.

It explains creation without a creator. That's why Darwin's book is so popular. It has nothing to do with science. So we must build our worldview on the Bible, one who was there when? In the beginning.

And so we look to the Bible for our origin and also for our destiny. Hebrews 11 says, but without faith, it's impossible to please him, meaning God, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I love that verse. Yes, it takes faith to believe that in the beginning God created, but we as people of faith, we who call upon Jesus as our savior, we have a walk of faith. And if you go to a gospel preaching church, a Bible preaching church, the pastor will teach that the Christian life is a walk of faith or should be a walk of faith with every step that we take.

So when the evolutionist accused the creationist as exercising faith, we have to raise our hand and say, guilty as charged. Because it says right here in Hebrews 11, but without faith, it's impossible to please him.

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I wanna please my Lord. And so I will exercise faith in a day by day, moment by moment walk. Well, Genesis is the history book of the universe. And some people think Genesis is just a story, but all 50 chapters are written in the historical narrative Hebrew.

There's absolutely no break between Genesis chapter 11 and Genesis chapter 12. They are seamless from Genesis chapter one all the way through to Genesis chapter 50, written in the historical narrative Hebrew.

God wants us to understand and believe his word literally from the very first verse. And so Genesis is not just a story. It was written by one who was there in the beginning. And creation science begins with Genesis chapter one.

As a scientist this evening, I would have to say that the most profound scientific statement that has ever been made that I ever read is Genesis chapter one and verse one. Folks, when you talk to a cosmologist, even if they are the most secular and atheist, they would have to agree that this universe is composed of three parts or three entities.

That is, the universe is composed of time and space and matter. Maybe you've heard somebody say, we live in a time-space-matter universe. And that's true. Now let's look at Genesis chapter one and verse one.

In the beginning, that's time. God created the heavens, that's space, and the earth, that's matter. So in the very first verse of the very first chapter of the book of books, we read God, who has always existed, spoke into existence the time-space-matter universe in the very first verse.

I would suggest this evening that no other religious writing in the world begins like the Bible. Not that I'm being haughty or arrogant. I just have to say what is very obvious, that of all the religious writings in the world today, the Bible stands unique and apart as starting like no other religious writing with God, who was there when, in the beginning.

Other religious writings begin with fire, wind, water, earth, or something like that, but not the Bible. And God speaks into existence, the very fabric of this entire universe. By the way, do we live in a universe or a multiverse?

Well, there's a little hesitation there. We live in a universe, right? What does a prefix uni mean? That's right, one, one. When I was a little kid, I tried to pull a wheelie on a unicycle. It didn't go well.

And so we find time, space, and matter, three in a universe. That's three in one. So I think that's kind of interesting, isn't it? Three in one. Well, the created cosmos is certainly something that we look up and just are absolutely struck and smitten by.

As the psalmist said in Psalm 19, one, the heavens declare the glory of God. And certainly that's true. When it comes to the origin of the universe, there's only three options. One is that it always existed.

That isn't true because of the law of thermodynamics. Even the most outspoken atheist has to agree that this universe is headed for a heat death and so could not have always existed. Number two, it suddenly appeared from nothing.

And number three, it was created supernaturally. Well, what do you suppose that the secular evolutionary community would go with? Well, certainly they wouldn't say that it always existed because of the second law of thermodynamics.

And they cannot because of their worldview that says no God, they are atheists, so they can't go with number three. Therefore, let me read to you a quote from Alan Guth, G-U-T-H, he's the wonder kid of the expanding universe idea.

Alan Guth teaches at MIT. And here is what Alan Guth said along with one of his co-authors back in the 1980s in Scientific American Magazine. Quote, it is then tempting to go one step further and speculate, there's a good scientific word, and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing.

And so how scientific is that? And I mean that in all seriousness because as a creation scientist, I am regularly accused of being anti-science, not only unscientific, but positively anti-science. But how scientific is this statement by Alan Guth?

Tempting to go one step further and speculate the entire universe evolved from literally nothing? Question, is there a scientific investigation and experiment that we might conduct and do to show how you can get something from nothing?

And of course there isn't. To believe everything came from nothing requires what? That's right, it requires faith. It takes faith to believe that in the beginning God created, doesn't it? That's right, it does.

But ours is a more reasonable faith because we have faith in one who is there in the beginning. So here Guth and Steinhardt say the entire universe evolved from literally nothing and there is no scientific experiment that can validate such a fantastical claim.

So the idea that the universe had a distinct beginning and is definitely winding down today is a serious philosophical concern for the secular cosmologists. Again, the idea that the universe had a distinct beginning and is definitely winding down today is a serious philosophical concern for the secular cosmologists.

Biblical Evidence for a Young Earth

Well, what about some biblical evidences for a young earth? I'm glad you asked. Luke chapter one in verse 70, it says here, as he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which had been when blessed, since the world began.

Notice according to the priest Zacharias here in Luke chapter one, God has been speaking through his prophets ever since the world began, not beginning billions of years after it began. In his temple sermon, the apostle Peter preached that God had promised someday to restore all things, look, which God has spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So in two different places in the New Testament, we find that God is telling us very, very clearly that the universe and God's prophets were created virtually at the same time. Now, Paul says in Corinthians that God is not the author of confusion, and he isn't.

If God wanted us to understand there are millions, well, billions of years between the origin of the universe and the appearance of God's prophets billions of years later, then there are words and phrases in the original language that would make that clear.

And since God is not the author of confusion, he would have included those words and phrases that would separate the creation of the universe and the creation of God's prophets. At two times, he did not.

He made it very clear the creation of the world and God's prophets were at virtually the same time. Let's look at the individual who was stuck on a desert island. He's the only survivor of a shipwreck.

He got on shore, he built a little lean-to hunt and started to wait for his rescue. One morning, he was beachcombing going along the shore and he came upon the captain's Bible of the ship that went down just weeks earlier.

He took the Bible, dried it off and faithfully read it from Genesis to the maps. Week after week, month after month, he read it and continued to read it and continued to read it as he waited for his rescue.

Here's the question. As he finished the last chapter of the book of Revelation and closed the Bible, would he ever say something like this? Wow, the earth must be 4 .6 billion years old. No, of course not.

He would never say that because nowhere in the Bible does it speak of millions of years. As a matter of fact, as this individual would read the Bible, he would come away with the idea that the earth is only thousands of years old based on what he would read, especially in the creation account in the book of Genesis, the book of beginnings.

If God wanted us to understand that this universe and this planet is billions of years old, he certainly would have told us. The secular scientist lectures the theologians way too often, unfortunately.

And the secular scientist says something like this. The Bible is not true. The earth is millions of years old. I'm a scientist, believe me. Unfortunately, 99 .9 of the time the theologian says, well, I have to add what he says to the Bible.

He must know what he's talking about. And this is really sad because the compelling case for an old age simply is not there. The earth does not show great ages and there's no proof the earth is 4 .6 billion years old.

As a matter of fact, just the opposite is true. But unfortunately, when we look at God's infallible word and man's fallible word, why do people change the infallible one when they want them to agree? And that is what happens over and over again.

The Bible has changed to fit man's viewpoint when just the opposite should be true. And there's example after example. Even after I joined ICR in 1996, I've seen all sorts of examples of where if the Christian would simply have waited for the scientific community to catch up, they would never have compromised with the evolutionary community in the first place.

There's all sorts of examples of that right here in Genesis chapter one, where we read in verse two, and the earth was without form and void and darkness is upon the face of the deep and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And yet the evolutionary community said over and over again for well over a century and a half, that this planet began as a red hot ball of molten rock, sterile molten rock. But the Bible states our planet began cool and covered with water, as opposed to the secular evolutionary model stating that it was molten rock with no water.

So the question should be asked, who are we going to believe? What God told us in Genesis chapter one and verse two, or the evolutionary naturalist who doesn't believe the Bible at all and who was not there in the beginning?

Well, if they'd only waited, guess what? In January of 2018, this article came out by somebody named Boyle. And he said, not until a particularly violent asteroid barrage ending some 3 .8 billion years ago, could life have evolved.

But this story, and it's certainly just a story, he says, but this story is increasingly under fire. Then he said this, many geologists now think earth may have been tepid and watery from when? From the outset, from the outset, just exactly what it says in Genesis chapter one and verse two, that the spirit of God moved across the face of the water.

Not only that, but a few years later, way back in March of the year 2021, the American Geophysical Union, which is hardly a hotbed of creationism said, and I quote, a vast global ocean. I can't say that without chuckling, a vast global ocean may have covered early earth.

Now, back 50 years ago, 60 years ago, when I was in school, I was taught over and over again that the Bible is wrong, and that the Genesis flood is a fairy tale. The Genesis flood that states this entire planet was covered in water in the past.

Now, in March of the year 2021, the American Geophysical Union is saying this planet was covered with water completely in the past. Just exactly what the Bible says. Now, I understand that the American Geophysical Union is not talking about the Genesis flood.

I understand that, but they are talking about the fact that they're suggesting, excuse me, they're suggesting that this planet was covered completely with water in the past. That just happens to be what the Bible teaches in Genesis chapter six through Genesis chapter eight.

And so again, if only many, many Christians would have waited, waited for the secular evolutionary community to catch up with what the Bible has always taught. And here again is a perfect example. Well, we believe in six literal 24 hour days of creation.

God was there in the beginning. He made it very, very clear that they were six literal 24 hour days of creation. For example, he uses the simple most straightforward word for a day in the Hebrew lexicon.

And that is the Hebrew word yom, Y-O-M, which 98 of the time class means a literal 24 hour day. Since God is not the author of confusion, as Paul says in Corinthians, God is telling us using the simplest, most straightforward word for a day that he could possibly use.

The Hebrew word yom, which means a day. But not only that, but he says the evening and the morning were the first day, the second day, the evening and the morning, the third day and the fourth day, the evening and the morning.

What does that imply? That implies a rotation of this planet one time on its axis. That is the astronomical measurement for a day. So God is telling us theologically, the Hebrew word yom. He's also telling us astronomically that it was a 24 hour day, sunrise and sunset at 24 hour period of time that can be validated and verified using astronomy.

And then finally, he uses a week. Now we can astronomically validate the day, can't we? Rotation of this planet one time on its axis. We can astronomically verify a month, which is the phases of the moon.

We can astronomically verify a year. It takes 365 days for this planet to make one journey in orbit around the sun. But there's no astronomical verification for a week. A week was God given right here in the beginning.

God worked six days and rested on the seventh. In other words, he's so powerful, he could have created just like that, but he took six days and rested on the seventh. Why? Well, basically he's telling us, I worked six days and rest on the seventh so that we might work six days and rest on the seventh.

So here's three reasons why we believe that it was six literal 24 hour days of creation. What about people? Where do people fit in on the Genesis account of creation? Well, human evolution is taught as a fact in taxpayer paid public schools.

But evolutionists don't know how, they don't know when, what or where when it comes to human evolution. I have it in quotation marks there because human evolution is an oxymoron. The two do not belong together, just like, well, airline food, that's an oxymoron.

Jumbo shrimp, that's an oxymoron. Microsoft works, that's an oxymoron, okay? And so is human evolution. Look at this quote from 2017, just a few years ago, but I agree with it 100%. This is from New Scientist Magazine, which is an atheistic publication, August of 2017.

Quote, over the past 15 years, almost every part of our story, every assumption about who our ancestors were and where we came from has been called into question. End quote. I couldn't agree more. This is the status of quote unquote human evolution in the 21st century.

But as the infomercial says, wait, there's more. Look at this. This comes from the American Museum of Natural History way back in the year 2021. When you look at the narrative for hominin origins, it's just a big mess.

There's a good scientific word, mess. There's no consensus whatsoever, according to this one individual who is a died in the war, USDA inspected evolutionist. So this is a status of human evolution as of this year.

This year, it's just a big mess. What's so tragic is that human evolution is taught as a fact in American taxpayer paid public schools. And there's nothing that we know about human evolution that's true.