Alistair Begg and Transgender Weddings

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00:11

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host John Harris. It's a short podcast today But one

00:16

I felt compelled to do because I've had many people reaching out to me over the last week and a half Asking me

00:21

John. Can you comment on the Alistair Begg same -sex wedding issue and to be fair?

00:27

I did actually say something about this in a previous video But the title did not suggest that the topic was about Alistair Begg And so I think many people missed that and then didn't realize

00:40

I had already said something and I think because there's been some development On it. I thought well, you know what?

00:45

I'll just make another video because there's been some things since then that have been said and There's a few other issues that I thought about that would be good to raise and so so I want to talk to you a little bit about it, we're gonna play some clips and Go from there before we do though.

00:59

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03:13

All right, let's talk about this Alistair Begg stuff I want to start with the original clip.

03:19

This is I first saw this at Reformation Charlotte, I think it's called the dissenter now, but Jeff Maples is doing a great job just kind of cataloging this stuff, which is where I got a lot of this and He put this clip out there.

03:33

This was probably over a week ago a week and a half ago now And this is what Alistair Begg said in very specific areas.

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This comes across I mean you and I know that we field questions all the time that go along the lines of my grandson is about to be married to a transgender person and I don't know what to do about this and I'm calling to ask you to tell me what to do, which is a huge responsibility and in a conversation like that just a few days ago

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And people may not like this answer, but I asked that I asked the grandmother Does your grandson understand your?

04:11

Belief in Jesus. Yes. Does your grandson understand that your belief in Jesus makes it such that you can't countenance in any affirming way the choices that he has made in life

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Yes, I said well then okay as long as he knows that Then I suggest that you do go to the ceremony and I suggest that you buy them a gift.

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Oh, she said What? She was caught off guard. I said, well, here's the thing

04:42

You're not going to... your love for them may catch them off guard But your absence will simply reinforce the fact that they said these people are what

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I always thought Judgmental, critical, unprepared to countenance anything and it is a fancy It is a fine line, isn't it?

05:00

It really is and people need to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling But I think we're going to take that risk

05:06

We're gonna have to take that risk a lot more if we want to build bridges into the hearts and lives of those who don't understand

05:14

Jesus and and Don't understand that he is a king So I don't to make a mountain out of every molehill

05:20

But I'm not sure exactly what he means at the end there by working out our salvation with fear and trembling on this particular

05:27

Issue, I don't know if he's just throwing that out there as an expression but the context of course is he's preaching through the sermon on the plane and he wants to Really communicate to the audience and this is on his radio show.

05:39

I believe truth for life. Is it truth for life? I just saw the we all just saw the yeah truth truth for life

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He's trying to tell them that this is what Jesus would have us do in order to be a good witness so Being a good witness.

05:55

I think then Creates this fine line this tension between Do I go and support in some way or at least give the impression that I'm somewhat in support of what's going on?

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Right, and I think Alistair big would want to say that he doesn't support what's going on at all and we should not

06:14

Indicate that we're supporting that but you know, do we? Do we risk giving that impression in?

06:22

order to be a good witness and And it's Alistair big comes down on the side of this is this what being a good witness is is you get them a gift you go to this

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Illegitimate ceremony for a illegitimate marriage. It's not an actually a marriage.

06:39

It is a pretend Ceremony. I mean biblically speaking. That's what you have to say and Alistair big

06:45

I think would be the first to say that but you You somewhat tip your hat to the fantasy here you in order to love that person in order to Accept that person in order to not reinforce a stereotype that person may have about Christianity and your faith

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You end up playing the part of an accomplice Because you go to this fake ceremony and you treat it as legitimate.

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You give them a gift these are the kinds of things that one does for a

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Legitimate marriage that two people are coming together male female to share their lives spend their lives together in a covenant and Because they're spending their lives together

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That's why you get a gift right because they they usually start out with a financial need and they're having there

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They need to buy their own stuff. They need their own place to live and their own stuff there So that's why you get a gift at a wedding at least traditionally

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It's been it now you're gonna get them a gift so they can start their lives together in this pretend

07:47

Fake and sinful and evil relationship according to Scripture. So it's obviously wrong.

07:54

It's obviously Confusing and And of course I said as much but I think the last time that I addressed this

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I wanted to give Alistair Begg a bit of an insanity defense I I really wanted to I didn't know if I actually could but I know

08:09

I really really wanted to and and that's just because I know that he's had a number of years of Faithful preaching for the most part.

08:18

I Have had people reach out to me and tell me things like, you know, Alistair Beggs Church during kovat was

08:24

Going along with everything the state told them to do I know people have told me that there are elders at the church who were essentially preaching critical race theory related

08:34

Content I haven't seen though firsthand Like primary sources of this kind of thing and I haven't really gone and looked for it either but You know, it doesn't shock me and and maybe that's the first thing to say before we play the other clips that I have for you

08:51

It does not surprise me and and maybe it's because I've developed maybe a slight cynicism since I've seen so much corruption and So many people have been exposed that I used to look up to Even a few years ago that maybe

09:06

I'm maybe I'm callous maybe and I'm just being real with you in the podcast audience here I'm not saying that's right or wrong.

09:11

I think that's just a reality But I think with him specifically there's something else going on there and It goes back to me

09:21

This isn't a huge revelation to all of you But it maybe explains why I'm not as surprised when I was at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary Alistair Begg came and he preached a message

09:30

It was a good message and I talked to him afterward. He was very nice to me I realized something about him at that moment when

09:36

I talked to him He could he has like a photographic mind or it's an amazing mind for remembering things like he remembered some line from a

09:45

Gene Hackman movie about Poughkeepsie and my friend was from Poughkeepsie and he could and and he could just reach back

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Years and remember things that I think most people it would just slip their mind And so I realized that about him that doesn't really relate to this, but I but an amazing mind.

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I also though one thing I saw in him was

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And since then as well is he's very ingrained in Evangelical institutions, even though I believe his church is independent.

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They're not part of like the Southern Baptist Convention or anything like that He he does a lot of stuff for Calvary Chapel.

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He does a lot of speaking outside of his church and For for denominations for the

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Southern Baptist Convention in this case He's at Southeastern and he's been there more than once I believe and in he, you know speaks at the

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Gettys Christmas thing He's spoken there. I believe a few times in New York City and and he just you see him pop up in all these different places and I know that people who are in who have those relationships extensive relationships for decades of ministry it's very hard not to get pulled kind of in the direction that everyone else is swimming and To have somewhat of a resistance to wanting to call those people out even if you disagree with them

11:07

So, I didn't know whether Alistair Begg was woke or not He didn't really take much of a stand but that indication itself the fact that he's speaking at places that were going woke at the time that he did not take a recognizable stand on these things that kind of told me what

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I think I needed to know and It didn't I didn't paint him as an enemy in my mind

11:29

I didn't tell anyone not to listen to him at all that he's some people are like that. He's compromised He's not taking a stand on this.

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Well, I just figured he's probably there's probably a weakness there and He doesn't see it as big of a deal as some people see it or you know

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He maybe because he's from another country originally. He feels like some of the 2020 things regarding America's history

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Aren't for him to weigh in on I don't know but whatever the reason He saw what happened with John MacArthur how

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John MacArthur was vilified. He didn't stand up and defend John MacArthur in that moment he didn't and I'm not saying he had to but it's just a culmination of Things that transpire and you don't say anything it becomes saying something it becomes that neutrality actually translates into an inability or or an unwillingness to stand against Some some very evil things frankly that are happening in the church

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That in my opinion, so this is based on just my experience This is based on watching other

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Pastors and leaders in the church sometimes even from a much closer vantage point than with Alistair Begg But I wasn't expecting a lot from him

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So when this statement came out, I wasn't expecting a lot and of course he said other things as well

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This is another thing that someone pointed out to me recently and apparently Alistair Begg has held this position for a while But I'll just play this clip for you.

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This is a different issue, but he's not a perfect man And it is anyone right but he's he has some weaknesses in his theology

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In certain areas and and generally speaking if you start getting a little weak on the sexual stuff

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You've probably started getting weak on women in teaching roles first Affirming the prohibition of women in the role of a teaching pastor or of a ruling elder

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We recognize also the role of women as teachers Because the prohibition is governed by the word men and it is governed by the context

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It doesn't mean that women can't teach anywhere anytime anyhow And again, the New Testament is littered with people in women in teaching roles first Timothy 2 makes reference of it first Corinthians 14 does and One of the chestnuts that always comes up and we won't have time for questions.

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You'll be relieved to know he said to himself One of the chestnuts one of the chestnuts that always comes up and said well you did that thing on first Timothy 2 and then you

13:54

Helen Rosevere come to the church Nana Nana Nana, and she spoke on a

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Sunday morning And she's not allowed to speak on Sunday mornings because of first Timothy 2. Yes.

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She's allowed to speak on Sunday mornings if the elders determined that we'd like her to She's not going to speak as the pastor and the teacher

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She is not going to speak in a position of rule and authority, but she has something to say and we like to hear it there are women who have unique abilities in relationship to for example dealing with bereavement and If that woman has something to share with a fellowship in the context of the

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Lord's Day worship Then she can come and share it Providing it does not negate all that we have said in other words loved ones we can't take a principle and make a law out of it and Legalists always make laws out of principles

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Because it is far more comfortable than you can always have it cut and dried but principles must be principles and laws remain law

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Okay, so he's preaching on first Timothy chapter 2 and he does the classic soft complementarian

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Take on on that by saying that but by really separating that there there's this role title an office that Women cannot be part of they can't fill that because God has ordained only men and he's prohibited women from filling that role and Then saying but there's there's another thing here.

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There's the thing that that role does so there's a function here and the function is one of them one of the functions at least is speaking preaching on in the context of Lord's Day service giving

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Instruction from scripture and that's where he comes in and says well, you know a woman can do that if it's under the elders authority

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So as long as it's under the elders authority, he thinks that's okay And and this is a position that you've heard in different forms and maybe with their own the nuances from others

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Danny Akins the first one that comes to mind who advocated this kind of a separation where there's a particular

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Place for a woman to come in and even preach on a Sunday morning but it's got to have these stipulations and I think of JD Greer really wanting to have women come in and fill any role that they can possibly fill except the ones that are specifically prohibited and you know, there's

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Even if I remember he serves me I think he even said something like women can They can lead

16:32

Bible studies or co -lead Bible studies to mixed audiences and these kinds of things So the the stress the the or the pressure is toward Trying to elevate

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Women into as close as you can get to these positions without giving them the titles without giving them the actual office

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And and denying that they're getting these positions But letting them fulfill the roles in some ways and of course the mockery is always towards those

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Those fuddy -duddy fundamentalists, right those people who want to say that's wrong Hey hold hold it The Bible says and then mocking them calling them legalists that kind of thing that that this is just a typical play we've seen for a while and so Alistair Begg somewhat

17:13

I guess was part of that and Again, I'm not This is a

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I'm walking a fine line myself here because I I don't want people to take what I'm saying and run with it

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And say well John said Alistair Begg is a false teacher or is a heretic.

17:29

I'm not saying those things I think that he has some blind spots and or it's very hard for me to conceive of him having a blind spot with this this transgender wedding issue as I'll explain in a moment, but but but he either has blind spots and or He is just plain wrong in some areas.

17:50

He is capitulated to the culture and a culture is not the word Actually, I wanted to use there to the world is really the right biblical word there.

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He's capitulated to the world he doesn't know doesn't think that's what he's doing, but he has that pressure is there and He has felt it and he has so these are your options.

18:09

You don't really have another option outside of this Unfortunately, and it's one thing to get some

18:18

Secondary or tertiary issues wrong and and I would say that You know something like Something like this issue this this issue of women

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Speaking on a Sunday morning. I can I can see how he's trying his best to maintain what the scripture says

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And yeah, he's still my brother. I disagree, but he's still my brother in Christ It's a step more and I think this is why this is a is really resonating with people it is a further step than to start saying, you know what you can go and You can kind of make a confusing statement on as to whether you affirm of something that God calls an abomination

18:58

It's to Eva. It's it is absolutely something God hates a wedding that is totally illegitimate and It's something that Is a it's really a war against the

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Creator and his design and you can go and somehow give a gift so that you can preserve your witness

19:18

I Think now people are starting to dig into the archives. They're remembering other things. He said and they're saying yeah, you know

19:23

I think he kind of capitulated there too. And maybe this wasn't as big of a surprise So I'm not saying not to listen to any of his preaching

19:31

I'm not saying that he doesn't have some good commentary, but there are I do want to talk about after we play

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These last two clips. I do want to talk about two things and one is being a witness and have

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Evangelicals Evangelical leaders have we had a blind spot for For years in our circles with trying to maintain a witness or preserve a witness

19:59

By sacrificing the truth. And then the other thing of course is the exegetical preaching model because I think

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Alistair Begg somewhat Typifies that as does John MacArthur. Is there a weakness in that?

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Somehow in some of the ways and as 2020 revealed some of the ways that that's a weakness

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I want to talk about that too briefly first. We're gonna play two clips So this is a first clip and and this

20:25

This took away my ability to give Alistair Begg the insanity defense because I want to say maybe he's getting older and sometimes you say

20:31

Crazy things when you get older. I really wish that was the case because I've seen other pastors do that I think one of the big

20:41

Pastors that I can think of doing that was Chuck Smith and So so I've seen that before Because he was

20:48

I think recommended like having a lady who called in He said that there were certain circumstances in which an abortion can take place or something like that So so you have that and people just always getting older Billy Graham was the same thing

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So people say always getting older He's starting to say these wacky things and and you want to say that because you really like the other things that they've said throughout

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Ministry and it's like man, don't let your ending be so bad and it's like maybe that's what Alistair Begg's doing

21:13

But then this happened Family radio for I don't know 10 or 12 years maybe in this particular time slot.

21:20

We've had a great relationship with the pastor Begg and his whole team You know at their ministry.

21:28

He serves a church in in the Cleveland, Ohio area anyway Something has happened recently, which has forced our hand here at American family radio to make a decision on continuing the truth for life program on AFR or not and We're going to talk about it.

21:45

We wanted to explain to you our listeners what happened and What went into the thinking of our?

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Decision so joining me in studio Wesley Wildman's With me, but we have a Tagliano and Walker Wildman and I just heard about it last week and a few days ago whatever and so people heard that answer and People began to call us.

22:07

Hey, what are you going to do? You hear what Alistair Begg said? What's your opinion American family radio of what he said?

22:13

So that's what I mean about forced us to Take a hard look at this and make a decision on what what if anything we were going to do about it

22:22

So Ed you and Walker had a phone conversation with not Alistair Begg himself

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But his team is that fair because yes yesterday. Yes, we wanted we wanted to give him an opportunity

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To say I messed up right there, right and and I think it's the wrong I said the wrong thing and I'd like to recant sure and and we in any case we want to do the

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Christian thing and In as much as we can sometimes with public statements, you can't get in touch with the person who made them

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But because they're public you can comment publicly, but we have had such a long and fruitful relationship with Truth for life and Alistair Begg.

22:58

We wanted to have some sort of interactions now Let me just say from the outset and then

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I'm gonna get Walker to join in here, too That the the the two individuals that we talked with is

23:10

Walker and I with two individuals from Alistair Begg's ministry They made it clear that Alistair Begg Believes that homosexuality is wrong.

23:18

He hasn't changed that his views on that He does not believe that homosexual marriage is valid and that the practice of homosexual activity

23:26

Is as the Bible says an abomination so all four of us were in agreement with that but Walker what we

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Could not get them to change and they said that Alistair Begg is not going to change his mind

23:38

Was on the issue of whether Christians should attend because that is what Alistair Begg was saying

23:43

Yes, he was saying Christians should attend and bring a gift Yes, that's right. And the goal of the call and the goal of all

23:49

Christians when approaching these issues should be Reconciliation but reconciliation and truth And so that was our goal with the call with Alistair Begg's team and unfortunately, we didn't get there

24:00

But we did press the issue multiple multiple times and we even asked point -blank So are you guys stating that Pastor Alistair Begg is standing by his original comment?

24:09

He has no regrets. He didn't misspeak He doesn't want to further clarify nothing and they said yes, he's standing by his original comment.

24:15

So very disappointing and You know I even told Ed this and the gentleman and lady that we were on the call with with truth for life that Pastor Alistair Begg has such a long decades long track record of biblical fidelity and truthfully teaching the

24:32

Word of God that this is Extremely disappointing this this isn't something that we saw coming. This isn't like some of the others

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Evangelical leaders that have drifted this is not one that was on the list that we could have seen this coming So a couple things.

24:46

So the question is if a Christian goes to a homosexual wedding, are they approving of it? And our answer here is absolutely and here's the example

24:54

I used and I gave this to Pastor Begg's team I said if if my best friend cheats on his wife and starts to have an illicit relationship with his secretary

25:07

And then wants to divorce his wife and marry that other woman and comes to me and asks me

25:13

To come maybe be his best man What would I say? I would say

25:18

Brother, no, i'm not coming to your marriage. I'm not going to participate, but i'm not even going to attend

25:24

What you need to do is to repent of this sexual sin and reconcile with your wife

25:30

I I think most Christians understand that if you go to the wedding you are approving Of the new relationship this man has embarked on and you are approving of what he has done to his wife

25:42

And you are going to celebrate the marriage when you show up at a wedding

25:47

I mean, let's face it you show up at a wedding and you go to the reception You are going to and you bring a gift and you bring a gift

25:54

You're going to walk up to that couple and say congratulations. You're going to shake their hands these two men Yeah, you're going to shake their hands and say congratulations

26:02

That is a a a sinful act you are approving of what they're doing in my personal opinion

26:09

You could be culpable in god's eyes if those people go to hell Because you would not preach the gospel to them and preach the gospel of repentance and faith

26:17

Yeah, and for those who didn't tune in, you know 15 20 minutes ago Our team did talk to the truth for life team yesterday on the phone uh with an attempt to to Uh have them and have pastor beg.

26:31

Um admit that that he gave bad advice, right and he shouldn't have Uh, but they they double down they double down so that that is what it is

26:39

Well, there you have it He's been confronted about this and he's had an opportunity to think clearly and also the men around him

26:46

The other elders have had a chance to think clearly about this and the decision, uh was made to double down on it to Stand by that initial terrible advice that alistair bragg gave

26:58

So I can't bring in the insanity defense really none of us can at this point Uh, they've had uh enough time to think through it um, the last clip

27:07

I want to play before giving some final thoughts is a clip from Last sunday and this is sunday morning.

27:14

This is what alistair beg had to say I want to do what i'm not prepared to do this morning and that is to acknowledge the amazing amount of Traffic that there has been a noise on the internet in relationship to what

27:28

I told you about some months ago and um My colleagues felt it would be good if I said something about it

27:36

So I don't want to do it now as it goes out into cyberspace, but i'm happy to do it it's for it's for our church family and I said jokingly to somebody, you know my

27:48

Making an attempt at compassion. I I ended up, you know starting a massive fire

27:54

I would fully have anticipated some of the other things i've said would be far Far you know far more inflammatory than this but um

28:03

We should have known that, you know, beg wouldn't manage compassion so Let's pray

28:11

You can you can tell something here, uh, he's quivering he's um

28:17

I don't want to read too much into it. I don't know if he's scared I don't know exactly what's causing the surface level things we're seeing but but there's certainly a uh

28:26

A profound disappointment on his face as he tells this to his congregation

28:33

And our prayer needs to be that that is the conviction of the holy spirit. Um, He his defense here.

28:39

I I suppose it's a defense is that he was trying to be compassionate And he messed it up because he's just not good at compassion, which

28:45

I mean that's just flimsy This is not compassionate to try to reinforce someone's lie that they're believing first of all, but secondly

28:54

More importantly, uh, this went out broadcasted widely on the truth for life broadcast that's my understanding at least and it sounds like he has a radio microphone there, so um

29:04

I know that it's accompanying a teaching series, but this isn't a q a that accompanies the teaching series.

29:10

So Uh, this has already gone out widely, you know, even if it was something he just did with his church and someone put it out

29:17

There widely it's out there pretty widely And to just keep whatever response to his church uh, and let's assume let's well, let's just for the sake of uh,

29:30

Argument in good faith. Let's just say That he actually said, you know, that was a dumb thing. I shouldn't have said it that was wrong actually

29:37

And and he only said it to his church. No one else got to hear it Then there's a lot of people that will take what he said

29:45

Broadly that was broadcast and they're going to attend and participate in things they should not be sinful participation

29:53

Uh based on what he said and the correction they will not hear Because he's keeping it to only his church now

30:00

I am not under the illusion that he corrected this but he may be I could see him saying well, I was clumsy. I shouldn't have said it that way or you know, who knows?

30:07

I mean, he gave us a little preview with you know, he he was trying to be compassionate and he couldn't manage compassion Um Well, ladies and gentlemen,

30:14

I spoke too soon and I recorded this entire podcast and uh

30:20

I was not aware. I I guess the clip actually came out after I recorded it that alistair begg has truly doubled down on this

30:28

So I I figure I will I will uh still You will still see the same ending to the podcast that I I planned on monday, which is when

30:35

I recorded this It's being released on tuesday. But um, but I figured before you hear it. You need to hear this clip

30:42

From a sermon called compassionate compassion verse condemnation. You can go to Parkside church youtube channel and watch the whole thing compassion verse condemnation

30:50

But like I said, I recorded it and it was after I recorded it that this Was released and you need to see it

30:56

So there's alistair begg completely doubling down on his comments about attending and giving a gift at a transgender wedding ceremony

31:04

In that conversation with that grandmother. I was concerned about the well -being of their relationship

31:10

More than anything else hence my counsel Don't misunderstand that in any way at all

31:18

If I was in the receiving end of another question about another situation from another person in another time,

31:23

I may answer absolutely differently But in that case I answered in that way and I would not answer in any other way

31:30

No matter what anybody says on the internet as of the last 10 days If that were the case,

31:37

I would never If that were the case I would never I should never have said it in the first place if people want to Me to recant and to repent to repent

31:46

I I repent daily Because I say a lot of things that I shouldn't say. I mean check with sue

31:52

But the fact of the matter is i'm not ready to repent over this I don't have to okay, well there it is, uh back to the rest of the podcast, but Two things that I mentioned before that I wanted to just briefly touch on one

32:07

And these are things that i'm sort of developing in my own head as we as we uh sink faster and faster

32:15

Into paganism in the western world one is this notion of being a witness

32:23

I have heard many christians some of whom I respect Friends even uh, tell me that I should or we should as christians

32:34

Be very understanding of homosexual inclinations Be very compassionate.

32:42

We should see people who abstain from those things As brave if they're claiming to be a christian and um

32:48

But they can still have this identity and we need to make all kinds of rooms in our churches for single people

32:54

So that really as a way to make homosexual people feel more Included and less on the outside Um, that's really what that is and I've heard

33:06

I mean I give you a lot of other examples like I even you know seen christians people that I knew people

33:11

I respected people in whose homes I was, you know in bible studies saying things like We shouldn't celebrate mother's day in church because what does it say to um

33:20

All what does it say to our witness to all the single women out there or the women who have had abortions? And they feel bad about it and you're just bringing it up on mother's day when you celebrate motherhood

33:29

And I'm kind of done with it. I'll be honest. I'm done with it. There is true compassion as christians.

33:36

We are supposed to have And it has been corrupted. Uh, I think you know, joe rigney talks about the sin of empathy

33:43

I think I I heard doug wilson talk about it before joe rigney. I'm, not sure who started talking about it I think that might factor into this to some extent.

33:51

Uh, it's a fair critique to say we have traded in Empathy for sympathy or sympathy for empathy rather And I think that We want to affirm everything about someone in order to be welcoming and have good manners which is not

34:12

That is not what good manners necessarily is We would never apply this to certain sins, of course the unfashionable

34:21

Things that are sins to our culture like being racially insensitive. We would never apply it to that Right, we wouldn't say well, you know in order to uh,

34:29

Your friends, uh, you're going to be at a clan rally or something. I don't know And uh, you know, you should attend with them.

34:35

You should go if it's important to them just to be a good witness Uh, bring them a gift, you know, bring bring them fuel so they can light their you know, whatever they're doing their their

34:45

Ceremony participate in it. We would never do that, right? Um What big is suggesting that christians do in the case of a transgender wedding is more insane by a lot

34:57

Because it's way more biblically clear in scripture that that is an abomination that kind of thing so um

35:05

It is a desensitization There are people we know in our regular everyday lives.

35:12

Some of them were related to Who have bought into some of these deceptions and we want so badly to maintain those relationships we want so badly to To outdo others in showing how compassion we are that we end up sacrificing truth

35:27

And it's just wrong. It's uh For pastors who preach against post -modernism and want to say that there's an objective standard that we should live by They're not always living by it

35:37

And you know, this is where we have to be people of the word. We have to be very Careful that we are not sucked into the world system on these issues that we have the long view

35:48

I remember c .s lewis saying and not that he was good in all his theology either but one of the good pieces of advice he gave was to read old books because it

35:56

Gets you out of the mindset of your current time and it gives you Sort of a an ability to transcend and critique it from another era and we need more of that We need to be able to see that the things that we're considering normal in our day and age

36:12

Weren't normal until about five minutes ago and they shouldn't be normal and they're not part of the design of god And that's where we should stand with the design of god

36:22

That's how we're going to be about truth That's how we're going to have true compassion the compassionate thing to do is to say. I love you I'm your friend.

36:28

I'm here when you break down on the side of the road. You call me when you're in a jam You call me i'll listen um

36:34

You can fall back on me. You know, you have a place here I can't participate in the lie that you were telling yourself that you're hurting and you're not just hurting yourself

36:43

You're hurting that other person. You think you're marrying number two, uh exegetical preaching

36:50

It's a fad in a way that term uh It's fairly recent to talk about exegetical preaching and I understand the people because i've been one of them in the past that I just want to find a church that preaches the word.

37:00

I just want to go to a church. That's verse by verse And I still feel that way to some extent

37:06

I want to go to a church that's going to preach the word But I think the um deception that or at least the

37:14

The way that we can go overkill on this is looking at a very blank slate biblical approach where it is, um it is a person who has

37:30

Yeah, typically not much more than their bible and perhaps, you know the original languages looking at scripture

37:37

And then doing a lot of academic work in the scripture and then conveying that to us in a chronological order based on a passage without a lot of application um

37:51

There's a wide breadth in exegetical preaching. I would say i'm in favor of exegetical preaching but there is

37:57

A um, I believe a problem when you have people in 2020 totally revealed this when you have people that That there's a riot down the street

38:07

Where businesses are closed and they get on their zoom Sermon or whatever they're doing and they say turn with me to first timothy chapter three

38:16

And they just talk about it As if nothing that's happening in the lives of people is actually happening

38:22

And it discouraged a whole lot of people And the pastor would say i'm just preaching the word i'm just trying to stay on the word and what the word says but this is one of those cases in which

38:32

It's not being you're not being any good to the people though that you're serving because they have real questions and real problems

38:37

And there's real emergencies going on out there real things that need to be dealt with and Sometimes that was used as a shield to prohibit someone or to to allow someone to not talk about those things

38:49

Those more controversial things because well i'm i'm just using my time to talk about the word and we're we're getting into the nuance of what these greek words mean about you know

38:58

About something like predestination or some some important issue, but it's not the issue that's pressing at that time

39:04

Now i'm not saying you should be a slave to the calendar and the news cycle at all um

39:10

I I think you need to be going through scripture You need to be teaching your people how to study the bible in your sermons if you're a pastor

39:16

Uh, but one of the things i've noticed is when you go back and you start reading older sermons, uh, if you if you go back to um

39:24

You know, even you don't even have to go back that far go back to spurgeon even and look at his sermons

39:29

And how much application is in those sermons? How much observation? Is in those sermons and taking the scripture and applying it to things he observed in his congregation

39:39

Uh, you can go to to back to even some of the puritans if you wanted edwards You can go I read a lot of uh reformers.

39:47

I read calvin. I like to read luther. Um, I like to read augustine. I Occasionally, I like to go back to the early church fathers look at what they often said it was much more practical

39:58

Than some of the exegetical things that are coming out of pulpits today That are so focused on staying within the boundaries of the text that they don't get outside of it to talk about what's actually going on So why do you say all that john?

40:12

I say all that to say this alistair begg in this q a does get outside the text and try to apply it

40:19

But it's not something that he is known for It's not something that is typically done in In an exegetical framework and he bring he does bring a lot of illustrations into his sermons and so forth

40:31

He's actually a good storyteller but and I have listened to a bunch of alistair begg preaching maybe not as much as some of you but He is someone who wants to really explain what are the nuances of this text?

40:44

What is the word saying here? and I think Some of his social views potentially could be hidden Because of that because he's not constantly talking about those things.

40:57

He's not uh bringing these these principles into the realm of everyday life

41:05

And then when he does do it Sometimes you're going to find wait a minute I guess maybe he doesn't actually maybe we're not on the same page

41:13

Maybe he's not seeing the same applications that seem obvious from scripture And so this is just a general warning to everyone out there

41:21

This is a lot of this podcast is john harris opinion because that's what people wanted They wanted my opinion on this but my opinion is

41:28

If you are a pastor You need to be um Just very careful about getting too academic you're feeding sheep sheep who live in the real world who have wolves that want to eat them

41:40

And because of that you need to give them food that they can digest that will actually bring them nutrients and make them strong and If you are constantly giving them things that explain the technicalities of a text

41:53

Without showing them how this actually applies to the decisions of their everyday life

41:59

Then you're going to do a few things one is you're probably going to alienate people from your leadership because they feel like if I Don't know greek.

42:05

How can I be an elder or something? the other thing is uh, you are going to Create Conditions in which people think that that's the godly holy thing

42:16

Is to really get academic about this stuff and they will forget sometimes about the where the rubber meets the road in the daily life and so The highest spiritual good tends to be the knowledge and and understanding intellectually

42:30

And that's important, but that's not the full enchilada. Um as as we know to be a godly person It's not that doesn't you can have that and not have innate character, right?

42:40

um and then of course the third thing is uh, you don't actually get to expose

42:48

Where the differences between you and other congregants might be on important matters

42:54

That need to be exposed and need to be explored So some pastors i've heard this many times.

43:00

I remember during 2020. I heard this so many times Uh people would send me sermons. I was even in a church I remember I was in a big church in california

43:06

I remember the pastor went up there i'm proud that we've been able to try to keep this congregation together through all the The things that happen in 2020 and the reason is is because basically we don't talk about it

43:16

All right. We just keep it to the word Well, if you're just keeping it to the word and you're never getting outside The the situation that existed in the first century or you know going back to whatever biblical time period and you're not

43:31

Actually applying it then what good are you actually doing? What difference are you actually making? I guess that is your only reward you kept the church together in some shallow way

43:41

So not all of this perhaps applies to alistair begg and i'm not saying it all does But I figured it was a good opportunity to bring it up because I think it potentially does

43:48

And it would at least be a framework for explaining why it's not just alistair begg There's a lot of other people in the last few years that we've kind of just woken up to that.

43:57

We thought wait a minute This person said so many good things. How can they get off the rails on this? and there could be a number of explanations, but um

44:05

But my expectations for alistair begg were not very high because he didn't take those hard stands at the very least

44:11

And to hear him say this i'm like, okay, you know, I I really Um, I really wish that I could just say he's older and he's losing it because he's had so many faithful years of exegeting the text

44:20

But that doesn't necessarily mean That his applications have always been uh in privately his applications in his mind, uh of what the text says uh have been spot on so Um, so I I hope that helps some of you out there to think through some of these things some of you are going through Similar situations you're in churches where these things have become issues

44:42

And you're trying to navigate them and and these are just some potential things in my opinion That have in the reformed evangelical world become stumbling blocks and have prevented clear communication from taking place and um, and we need to be clear so um in closing

44:57

I'll just say a few things to reiterate from the previous podcast in which I talked about this leaders should demonstrate responsibility luke 16 10

45:03

They should be pure in heart proverbs 16 7 They should serve one master luke 16 13 and they should be tested first timothy 3 10

45:11

These are all things that leaders should do and when they're not we need to confront them

45:16

Um first thessalonians 5 proverbs 28 13 matthew 7 3 through 5 you all talk about confronting brothers and sisters in christ and then it should be with the

45:26

Uh, it's exactly what the american family radio people did with the eye to restore them as brothers in christ

45:33

And if the restoration doesn't happen though, then we have to warn others and that's what they did and at american family radio

45:40

That's what i'm doing. I'm warning you. I'd be careful of allister big at this point. His judgment is not good

45:45

He's been given the opportunity to repent and his judgment is not good And yes, I know because many people have told me he's scheduled to speak at shepherd's conference with john macarthur and um

45:54

I only see two options there either he shows up and he is confronted on this issue publicly

46:01

Or he doesn't come and you say john that seems kind of harsh. Well, this isn't a small issue you know, this isn't uh

46:08

This isn't even something like the impeccability of christ and debating whether or not Uh, you know christ could potentially have sinned as big of an issue as that is um this is

46:19

Should we engage in a celebration? that god hates It's so fundamental and if you're blind to that Uh, that's a pretty basic I don't think it's a high bar to say

46:32

That you're going to be off in other areas as well or at least the danger exists for that and so You're a danger.

46:41

You're a danger to the pulpit Once you start making statements like that and then doubling down on them and you don't back up from them

46:46

Uh, and that's where allister big is right now. So let's let's pray for repentance Let's pray for that that conviction that maybe we were seeing

46:52

In that one clip that that would be pronounced that that would be that that he would just you know Say, you know what? I was wrong and that faith uh that he would be able to restore some trust with people who have lost it for him because You know,

47:03

I still it breaks my heart to be honest and I know that doesn't maybe get conveyed in the podcast as much because i'm busy explaining but Um, it does it really does.

47:11

I I I happen to personally like him. I really do I mean he's when I talk to him He's so affable someone that I love to just go hang out with and hear his story just listen to him talk his accent alone, right but I I just think he's in so many ways a wonderful and and gracious man on a personal level

47:28

So I hate to see this but this is the truth and sometimes the truth hurts. So Um, let's just pray for repentance.