Dinosaurs and Dragons (Genesis Apologetics Presentation)

Genesis Apologetics

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I went to the Dinosaur Provincial Park. I was there with my daughter, Michaela, my oldest daughter, my son, and we were out at an outside exhibit behind plexiglass.

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They had this 30 -foot hadrosaur that was laid out there, found in situ, they didn't change it. They left it right on top of the mud where it was found, and it was all twisted up, and it had what appeared to still be soft tissue or connecting tissue holding this thing together.

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It was just not bone. It was something that was all held together, semi -mummified, let's call it.

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And it was probably 105 degrees out there that day, and there was a dad and his son.

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His son was probably 10 years old, and his son walked up to the museum button where you're supposed to press play, and it would give an explanation of how that dinosaur found itself dead under this big pile of mud.

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And this young boy pushed the play button, and it said, well, millions of years ago, these hadrosaurs were lined up, single -filed like a train, getting ready to cross a river, but there was a tropical storm, and the river had overflowed its banks.

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So this hadrosaur tried to swim for it, and one by one, they just drowned. The next hadrosaur lined up, and it tried to swim, and it drowned.

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This explanation was just not making any sense. And my daughter, almost rudely in front of this dad and this son that had just pressed the play button, said,

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Dad, that's a ridiculous story. I can't believe this. In the next five minutes, she had a little rant, an epiphany, where she just went off about how

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Noah's flood was the only possible explanation for what we were seeing that day. And this dad and his son got to hear the whole thing as her light bulb was switched on from dark to light.

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She said, Dad, there's thousands of these dead hadrosaurs. In fact, as far as her eyes can see, there's these hoodoos, all these big, huge mud mountains, and these creatures are buried under 50 or sometimes 100 feet of mud, and they're buried with fish and clams and all this marine life.

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How in the world could a little tropical storm with a river overflowing its banks leave this little creature here along with thousands of its friends?

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It just makes no sense. And she goes on and on and on. And the dad just kept getting closer and closer and closer to the point he was standing between us, and I was feeling uncomfortable.

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Like, wow, my daughter Michaela is an introvert. She's usually very, very reserved, but she was having her epiphany moment, and I just let her go.

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So that thing closed up, and I'm like, okay, well, let's get out of here. I don't want to be embarrassed with this dad anymore. So we left, and it was really hot.

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So she goes back to the museum for an ice cream, and I start walking out to the parking lot, which was like an airplane tarmac.

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It was super hot that day. And sure enough, here comes this dad walking out towards me diagonally through the parking lot.

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And I'm like, oh, no, he wants to have a confrontation, and he wants to explain to me how I'm such a bad dad for raising this daughter under this fairytale version of fundamentalist

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Christianity that believes in young earth creationism, all that stuff, but I was just not in a good place to have a conversation with this guy.

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But he walks up to me, and he's real respectful, and he says, sir, do you have a minute? And I said, yeah, sure. And he said, listen,

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I'm a licensed geologist, and I used to believe in millions of years of evolution, but in five minutes, your daughter's completely changed my mind.

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Isn't that incredible? And then he just went on from that, and he says, well, look, I was a

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Christian before I started my geological training, and I just gave up my faith, because they had the layers and the radiometric dating, and the whole story of evolution seemed to make sense to me.

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And so I jumped onto that train, and that's what I believed for the longest time. But in five minutes, your daughter's just completely changed my mind.

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It makes way more sense. I don't know how I missed it, but I did. And her rant that one day just completely turned his light bulb on, too.

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So for those of us that have not yet had your light bulb flipped on, I'm hoping this will be your moment.

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Not anything because of what I'm going to say, but I'm just going to give you a tour through the evidence that not only makes a clear case, but not even a very compelling case, but an obvious case for both dragons and dinosaurs.

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So we are going to have a showing of our movie this Saturday. Please don't just show up yourself.

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Your ticket for admission is five bucks to support the college, and two of your friends and neighbors.

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That's your cost for admission. Please bring friends. You guys, the emails we are getting streaming in right now for people whose lives have been changed by this movie is hundreds and hundreds of them by email and Facebook comments.

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And again, nothing that I've done. The evidence is obvious. I just went through, for two and a half years, gathered the evidence, worked with leading experts like the folks from ICR and Answers to Genesis and others, put together a film that for the first time in Hollywood theaters brings a biblical case to the big screen.

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And it's working. We grossed about 2 .1 million at the box office. This is not about money for us.

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We came into this hoping that we would just lose money on the deal because we want to present the truth. But coming through the theaters gives the movie credibility.

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And then after that, it'll go on digital streaming platforms around the world. Then it'll go free on YouTube after that.

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So, this is the book to grab when you come for the movie this Saturday. It's a very short form version, about 108 pages of the basics of Noah's Flood.

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If you like our talk today on dinosaurs, grab this book. It's in the back also, just a very short piece on dinosaurs.

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And if you really want the deep dive, grab this Dragons book. Does anyone have this book yet?

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Okay, great. A great, great book by Vance Nelson that will provide some very convincing evidence that dragons were in fact dinosaurs.

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Great, great evidence in this book, so make sure you get that. So, with that, we will start diving through our talk here.

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If you have questions about this talk, please do email me at dan at genesisapologetics .com.

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A little bit about our ministry. We are a student -focused ministry living in California.

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It's not some, it's not half, but the majority of Christian high schoolers who attend public school will graduate as theistic evolutionists at best.

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That's what's happening in our state because before you graduate high school in the state of California, each student will have systematically and intentionally endured 250 pages of evolution teaching, over 50 classroom hours, and it's just buzzsawing the faith of Christians around the nation and especially in California that has such a huge evolution teaching that's happening with our students these days.

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And they're not being really grounded in biblical creation, which is a sad thing, but we see the results of that in our ministry.

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So we have a lot of different movies that we put out. We have, all of our material goes out free on social media.

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We have our YouTube channels now up to about 180 ,000 subscribers. We get about a half a million views each month.

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Sometimes it's less, sometimes a little bit more, depending on what we're releasing. We speak a lot at Christian schools, mostly around our region.

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We give a local conference called the G1 Conference, or the Genesis Conference. This year we had a little over 700 people at the conference, which was great.

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We had the president of ICR, Randy Galuza, come speak as well. And that's at William Jessup, usually in February or March of every year.

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And we do mean it that all of our resources are free to students. We have a suggested donation of $10, but our table is grab -and -go.

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It's a no -ask situation. Just grab the books and leave. We're happy to share these resources.

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I want to put this on the front side, because I usually have a tendency to go a little bit late. I want to make sure you guys know what the resources are.

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So if you have a student that's between 5th and 10th grade, especially if you're going to public school, put them through our debunkevolution .com

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program. It's about two hours' worth of training. It covers 10 different videos that talk about the...

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They address really the 10 leading pillars of evolution theory that are taught in public school. Then for students a little bit older, 11th grade or higher, get our 7

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Myths program that addresses the top 7 false teachings that they're all going to encounter when they go away to college.

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Even most Christian colleges are going to get these top 7 false teachings.

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Our leading book is the Answers book. We take the hundreds of questions that we get every year.

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We took the top 50 and developed answers and videos that go along with those top 50 questions.

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If you are a visual -based learner, which, of course, most people are, students are on their phones about 6 .7

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hours a day. That's why our ministry is chasing them where they're at on their phones. We have over 100 ,000 people that have downloaded our mobile app that leads to all of our videos.

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You can just go to the Apple Play or the Google Store there and download the

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Genesis Apologetics app. About our movie, you can just go to noisflood .com. It is out of the theaters now.

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We had a two -day showing in March and a one -day encore on April 1st. Then, of course, we have the

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Saturday showing. It's going to come out on DVD and streaming after April 21st.

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But if you sign up for our newsletter there, just go to noisflood .com, and you'll be notified on when that's coming out.

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Dragons and history. Did you know that in every country in all of recorded history, and this is not an exaggeration, go to the libraries and spend your time looking this stuff up, it is a true statement to say every culture all through history has maintained stories, myths, legends, accounts, drawings, you name it, about these dragon -like creatures.

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But the most interesting thing, when you take a meta -survey all through the dragon literature, and I have hundreds of dollars' worth of books on dragons.

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I've got several dozen books on dragons because we're going to be making a video on that. I'm doing the deep plunge now.

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There is a theme that goes throughout all these dragon books. And one of the themes that pops out when you do, again, kind of a meta -exploration is two different typologies of dragon creatures always show up in the literature, which would lead me to believe that these are the two groups of dinosaur -like creatures that lived after the flood.

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Theropods, or creatures that look like raptors or T -Rexes, but usually a little bit smaller, and pterosaurs.

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They repeatedly show up across the Native Americans and the Chinese and the Europeans. They always have these dragon myths and legends, but they typically look like the dinosaurs that we would regard as either theropods or pterosaurs.

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It's one of the themes that pops up. And they're all through all of recorded history. Here's even a secular site that says all of the creatures that have ever lived, pterosaurs, probably most closely resemble dragons of European legend.

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Reptilian and featherless, pterosaurs flew on wings of hide that were supported by a single long bony finger.

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And that's from the secular literature. And I'm sure, of course, when we look at these creatures, they look a lot like what you would regard a dragon to look like.

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The other thing interesting about these pterosaurs is two things. First of all, the evolutionists are perplexed by pterosaurs.

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These are the big flying creatures. The biggest ones have about a 50 -foot wingspan. Most of them had 10-, 15-, 20 -foot wingspans.

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They'll say, look, these pterosaurs, we have no idea about their evolution. Every time we dig them up, they look like a completely formed pterosaur.

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They can't find the predecessor that led up to a pterosaur. They look like completely formed pterosaurs.

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In fact, that's a rough quote from one of the leading experts in the world on pterosaurs. That's what he just comes out and says.

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The second thing that's interesting is that these creatures are all throughout the fossil record, all through the middle layers, the

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Triassic, the Jurassic, and the Cretaceous. You find these creatures all throughout these different layers that are buried in the flood, and it's because they got airborne, and they were able to live.

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Some of them got wiped out quickly. Some of them waited for a little while. Some of them probably flew as long as they could before they were knocked out and fossilized and buried.

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But if you go to the Paleo database and look at the fossils for pterosaurs, they're in all three layers.

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It's a very interesting thing that's not always true for most dinosaurs. Here's one that was found in the

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Hell Creek Formation. They called it Dracorex. Of course, it looks like a dragon.

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You look at this creature, and you're like, that has dragon -like features. Of course, people draw it looking like a medieval knight going out and hunting these creatures.

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But you would think that this type of creature, and the way it looks, has the appearance of a dragon.

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And even the head and the bony features, and it looks like it has horns.

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It looks like exactly what you would expect a dragon to look like. And sure enough, here we have a drawing that's over 800 years old from the

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Chinese that looks a lot like the creature you just looked at. So what were these cultures and people looking at for hundreds and hundreds of years and drawing?

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Not just the Chinese. It goes through many different cultures, and many cultures have captured images of what they referred to as dragons.

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So what about the Bible? Does it have a framework for these dragon -like creatures? Well, if we just take a classic 6 ,000 -year time frame, let's spread it out and see where dragons might fit.

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So we know that there are land -dwelling, air -breathing creatures, so they were created on day six.

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Then there was the fall and corruption, so these creatures, because they were under the dominion of man, they fell and became carnivorous just like everything else did after the fall.

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And then a classic timeline would say that the flood happened about 1 ,656 years after creation.

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So about 85 varieties or family level of these creatures got on to the

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Ark. Secularists and creationists believe that there's about 1 ,000 species of dinosaurs, but there's still a lot yet to be discovered.

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But currently they've categorized at least 1 ,000 different species of dinosaurs, but only about 80 or so at the family level.

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So if we take Genesis literally, where God says, I will bring to you two of each kind of animal, it would be probably 85 different varieties of these dinosaur -like creatures.

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Then they get off of the Ark, and they're on a different world all of a sudden.

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They're being hunted by man, they're hungry, they're probably not equipped for a post -flood world much like a lot of creatures were or some of the larger dinosaurs had huge food supply needs.

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So many of them, if there were 85 different varieties, I would say that probably dozens of these families of dinosaurs went extinct probably quickly within a few hundred years after the flood.

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That's speculation, can't know that for sure. But so after the flood we have these 85 kinds. They reproduce, they're in a much harsher world climate, and we have a lot of mass extinctions that are happening because of the ice age that happened after the flood.

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Well what does the Bible say about dinosaurs? We get this all the time, people saying, well the word dinosaur's not in the

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Bible. Well the word dinosaur wasn't even coined until 1840 or so. So before that they were called dragons.

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But yes, the Bible does talk about dragon -like creatures. It has a very express description of a behemoth, which is a sauropod dinosaur in Job chapter 40, and it also describes

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Leviathan. But did you know that when God is having his dialogue with Job, after God told

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Job sit down and regard yourself as a man, and I'm gonna talk to you and you're gonna listen to me,

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God has this sit down moment with Job. What does God say? Does God give him consolation or sympathy or mercy or console him about his friends and the bad advice he was getting?

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No, God stands up as a creator designer of all things created ever, and says,

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Job, I made everything. And then he begins to describe a long list of a dozen or so animals, including many that are still alive today.

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And at the very end of God's narrative of his monologue, he says, oh by the way, Job, I made behemoth along with you, like on the same sixth day of creation.

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Then he describes for a whole chapter what this behemoth looks like, and he gives 13 or 14 characteristics about this creature that are perfectly fitting to a large sauropod dinosaur that look like this.

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So that's what behemoth was, and he says it's got a tail that sways like a cedar tree, and a raging river does not alarm it.

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It can sit there in this raging river and drink water right out of its mouth. It's got ribs that are like rods of iron.

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It's got these bones that are tubes of bronze, sinews of its thighs are closely knit.

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What strength it has in its loins and what power of the muscles in its belly. Well, you can't really say that of all creatures.

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Why would God point out the behemoth that's got these special features and a tail that sways like a cedar tree?

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And then he says, look, no one else but its maker can even get close to the thing. So he's talking undoubtedly about a sauropod.

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He goes over all these characteristics that will fit a sauropod, but they won't fit a hippopotamus or an alligator or a crocodile.

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In fact, some Bible study notes describe it. Maybe it was a hippo, maybe it was a crocodile, but it has very loosely fitting and sometimes not fitting at all descriptions for those creatures, but they fit a sauropod very well.

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Then this is what finally breaks Job. Job, after listening to God, and he describes a behemoth, but when

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God gets done describing Leviathan, Job finally has had it.

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He sits down in his dustcloth and ashes and he says, behold, woe is me.

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You made Leviathan, and Leviathan is amazing. So me and my friends are going to have a come -to -Jesus talk, and woe is me,

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I'm a humbled man now. So what is Leviathan? I came here a few years ago on my high horse, and everyone knows it was a spinosaurus.

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My gosh, and we've got these fossils and everything, and I talk with my friend Brian, and he's like, well, have you considered Deinosuchus? I'm like, huh, interesting,

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Deinosuchus. Deinosuchus is a big, huge super croc, about 40 feet long, weighs seven tons, and they've got some evidence that shows that Deinosuchus was eating dinosaurs for a diet.

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How's that for a big crocodile? So we did some more research, got with Brian, we actually published an article about that, and we have some pretty compelling evidence that would indicate that Leviathan was probably a

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Deinosuchus dinosaur. So we've put together a video about that because there's some very interesting descriptions about this creature.

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God talks a lot about its overlapping plates that no air can pass between, and it sounds exactly like what's called a crocodile hornback, and if you look at the back of an alligator or the back of a crocodile, it has these plates, these osteoderms, that are put so closely together that in fact no air can pass between, and then

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God describes seven different types of weaponry, and God says, go ahead, try to get with the spear.

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Won't work. What about a fishing hook? Can you draw it out? How about your darts? How about a spear? How about a javelin?

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How about arrows? And God describes all these weapons, and it says, look, they're just like straw to this creature.

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So we took a hornback system, a platey, bony back system, from maybe a six -foot alligator, and put it under a high -speed photography and shot it with English war bows and used other vicious medieval weapons on this hornback, and it's absolutely right.

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You cannot even penetrate the back skin hide of a modern crocodile that was even just six feet long with really strong weapons.

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So God is bragging about this creature, saying you can't even pierce its scales, and this is the monster that drove

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Job to his knees to say, woe is me. You made this grand thing, and I'm just gonna give, and he had described all kinds of animals, but he ends with Leviathan, and that's when

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Job breaks. So go watch that video. We were really surprised you put this video out, and it's now got over 400 ,000 views, probably because of the cool slow motion stuff that we did, but it's a very enjoyable video.

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And so now let's talk a little bit about Noah's flood and then dinosaur extinction, because this will ultimately lead us to the dragon discussion.

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So here's a very quick overview of the timeline of the flood. We have the ark getting waterborne about day 40, so there's a lot of marine and shallow sea flooding that happened with the first mega sequences that were going on in the flood.

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The water peaked about 150 days into it. Then we have the retreating and receding stages, and then earth dried out.

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So the Bible's very clear that there's different stages to this flood. During the topmost peak stage of the flood, probably what's called the

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Zuni mega sequence, we had this happen. We have all these fossil records sandwiched in in the middle of America and each one of these dots is not just a single fossil finding.

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Most of them are bone beds or bone yards that have hundreds or thousands or even millions of fossils in them.

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And this little area spans about 1 ,800 miles long, about 1 ,000 miles wide, and over one million square miles, and it's chock full of dead dinosaurs.

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How do you do that without a worldwide flood? In many of these areas, like if you just look at the Morrison Formation, it's 13 interconnected states.

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That's about 600 ,000 miles of this one million mile square area, and it's got 52 species of dinosaurs.

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It's got all kinds of fish and marine life that are all washed in, and they're under 50 to 100 feet of mud in most places.

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So how would you do that without a worldwide flood? So here's the Dinosaur National Monument in Utah, and here we see all kinds of flat layers that are laid down from flooding and tsunamis and water settling and more flooding and tsunamis and water settling that's laying down these mud packages like pancakes.

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So if we zoom in to the Morrison Formation, this is just one 13 -state area there in the middle of America, represents about 20 % of the square mileage of continental

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United States. So one -fifth of America is a dinosaur bone yard. If we zoom in to Morrison, the city of Morrison in Colorado, right in the middle there, let's look at how thick and how big this mud pancake is.

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So if you want to have a conversation with your friends and convince them that dinosaurs and Noah's Flood go together, just ask them this, how else could you lay down a 300 -foot -thick mud pancake over 13 states without a worldwide flood?

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That's one of the most compelling statements you could ever be, and when we look at it more specifically, here's the

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Morrison Formation. It was probably much thicker. There was some compaction and settling that went on, but right now it's about 300 feet thick on average.

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So if we dive down a 747 plane, we can see by comparison what that 300 -foot -thick mud pancake might look like.

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There's the Empire State Building, but we're talking about this swath of mud that spans for a 13 -state region.

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This is 600 ,000 square miles. How do you do that without a worldwide flood? So we got compacted over time.

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Then we have to ask ourselves this question. How did they die, these creatures, at least in the

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Morrison Formation, all Jurassic dinosaur species that are found in America are represented in this

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Morrison Formation, 52 species. How do you kill them all at the same time, bury them together in similar regions if it wasn't a one -time catastrophic event that just happened once?

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So here's a picture of all these 52 species of dinosaurs that all bought it at the same time.

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They're all found in the Morrison Formation in a 300 -foot -thick mud pancake spanning 13 states.

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Let's look at the allosaurus. Each one of these blue dots is where they find the allosaurus creatures.

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Then we look at the sauropods. Keep a look at these blue dots if you can see those colors up there. So there's all the allosaurus that they found, and here's the sauropods, and here's the stegosaurus.

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Now let's fly them all in together. What does that look like to you? Does it look like all the allosaurus just have this certain region where they just go in and die and get all cuddled up in similar places?

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And the sauropods, same thing, and the stegosaurus, same thing? No, this is a snapshot of something that involuntarily killed the whole lot of them at the same time because they're all buried in the similar regions together.

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In fact, there's one find where they have three different dinosaur species all piled up on top of each other.

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How could you do that without a worldwide flood? So when we drill into the flood and look at it a little bit more carefully, it reads as a narrative.

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Listen to this. So this is Genesis 7 -11. In the 600th year of Noah's life, in the second month, in the 17th day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up and the windows of heaven were opened.

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So the flood started on the ocean floor. That's where everything began, and then it peaked over 15 cubits or 22 -some feet over the highest hills of the heavens.

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And here's a quick animation that we have with no sound today, but here's what it might have looked like when the fountains were opened.

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Great linear steam jets, critically heated water shooting up. So we have a 40 ,000 -mile oceanic rift system that's doing this.

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New seafloor spreading hits the land masses and subducts. And when it does that, it will bind and release tsunami after tsunami.

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So we have tsunamis coming up, being washed up over the land here. This would be like, for example, the

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Farallon Plate, and we have what's called the Laramide Orogeny, all of the

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Colorados and the Rockies being pushed up. And then when the fountains got shut off, this seafloor that was creating all this, this water sheeting, it cools and comes back down, and that pulls the water back up off of the continents.

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So that's just a quick, you know, animation of what we're talking about in Noah's Flood. So Dr.

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John Baumgartner has modeled this extensively with his Terra model, and he can say, look, it was a

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Pangea -like formation, and that's what it would have looked like when the continents spread apart. And when we use a bathymetric map, a map without the water on it, and highlight this mid -Atlantic ridge, that's a clear indication of the fountains of the

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Great Deep. This is 10 ,000 miles of a 40 ,000 -mile circuit that goes around the globe 1 .6

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times, and it bursts out, it forms new seafloor, and it pushes these continents apart because they're roughly equidistant between these fountains.

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And interestingly, if you look at the oil deposits that are found on the edges of each side of these matching continents, there's a signature with the oil chemistry with multiple samples on this side and this side indicating it was the same flora and fauna that was buried on each side.

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So we have correlated oil. The oil deposits indicate that when you match these continents back together, the same habitats were rapidly buried in the flood.

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So the science just keeps heaping up and heaping up. So we would have the seafloor coming up with the fountains of the

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Great Deep spreading and pushing these continents apart, and when that happens, you can see the seafloor subducting like a train.

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It goes down here, it binds underneath the land mass and grips it, and when it springs out like it did with the

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Haiti tsunami in Japan, it's going to send a tsunami going two directions, one on the shore, one out to sea, and that's exactly what was going on in multiple cycles during the flood.

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Here's what happened in Japan. You can see just that one seafloor slip created tsunamis that went up and killed hundreds of people, and that tsunami created waves that are going down at detectable all the way around the world going for thousands of miles.

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That's one seafloor slip that was subduction -related that was going on over and over again during the flood.

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So Dr. Clary has studied this extensively, and he holds a position, as do I, that the

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Bible actually can support the idea of tsunamis coming up and receding off, tsunamis coming up and receding off.

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That's from Genesis 8, chapter 8, verse 3. Those of you who know

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Hebrew, go ahead and dig into that and let us know what you think. But we think that there's a viability for a translation that would say, or some translations do say this, the water receded from the earth going forth and returning, and at the end of the 150 days, the water decreased.

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So we can see what the Bible just said at the Tanis site in North Dakota.

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Check this out. So this is the Tanis location in North Dakota, a relatively recent find, a huge uplift, probably revealed a lot of this stuff.

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But here's a little man you can see right here, and you have all these tsunami -formed layers that are all over this guy here.

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And here's what they're finding, very, very fresh dinosaurs. This Thessalosaurus was soft -tissue preservation.

30:12

They found that creature there. They're finding all these fish with very well -preserved fins and scales.

30:18

We can zoom in on that, and we can even see color. You've got the skin, all this exquisite detail is preserved.

30:25

And the secularists who are looking at this site say, yeah, we can explain exactly what happened here.

30:31

It was two tsunamis. They've got unit package one that came in, came in and retreated, came in and retreated, leaving all these deposits.

30:40

They can even tell you the direction that these tsunamis came in and retreated, came in and retreated.

30:46

So we just looked at Genesis 8 .3 that says the water's coming in and retreating, coming in and retreating, and here it is in North Dakota, same thing.

30:54

But now we go to one of the most amazing evidences, and I'm going to beat this one up like to a dead horse because I think it deserves it because this is one of the most amazing evidences that's coming out in our lifetime.

31:08

Everyone here, this is very relevant. It was kept hidden, if you will, for multiple generations, but in our lifetime, in this generation, these findings are coming out, and they're not getting quite enough press.

31:20

So I'm going to spend some more time on this, but here's what we're talking about. Dr. Mark Armitage discovered this.

31:26

You demineralize a triceratops horn, and it stretches. This was from the Is Genesis History? We played the same clip in our movie.

31:34

But when you demineralize a triceratops horn, you can pull it with forceps, and it's still got stretchy elastic material into it.

31:42

But that's not it. The case doesn't end there. It goes on and on and on because Dr. Thomas from ICR has got a working paper on Google where he's amassed 122 peer -reviewed journal articles that have substantiated not just stretchy keratin and collagen like what you might have just seen on the screen, but all kinds of other materials.

32:05

It's not just that. It's 16 different flavors, 16 different types of bioorganic materials that they're now finding in dinosaur bones.

32:14

The last two that have just been discovered is cartilage, and not nerve cells, but actual nerves.

32:22

You talk to the folks that discovered this, and they're like, no, it's not cells from nerve. It's an actual nerve still intact.

32:27

That's their position on the folks that are finding this. 16 different flavors. It used to be 14, but now it's up to 16.

32:35

Here's Dr. Thomas' list. It scrolls. You can see the date there. It just goes on and on and on and on.

32:41

These aren't some crazy, wacky ideas that creationists have. This is well substantiated in the secular literature that they're reporting, yeah, there's actual real tissue in these bones.

32:52

It's just not one place. It's all over the place. Here we see it goes back all the way to the 60s and 70s.

33:01

There's a couple of journal articles here and there, but look at this in the recent history. This is a frequency diagram of all these recent discoveries of different types of dinosaur soft tissue that are being discovered.

33:12

That's what I mean, you guys. This is a your -lifetime discovery that needs to get out to the world.

33:18

You're the disseminators of this truth. It's not just one location. It's from finds and fossils all over the world and from every geological strata.

33:29

When you look at these papers, again, I think this is from Dr. Thomas, who's here today.

33:34

Brian, raise your hand. Everybody knows Brian over there. Good job, Brian. He does this work, all this great research here.

33:42

We have all these different publications showing from multiple different strata. You would think that if evolution was true, maybe it was just a few scrappy pieces in the

33:52

Cretaceous that would have to be encapsulated by mud and sealed up and then frozen in Alaska, and maybe we would find one little piece or variety of bio -organic material, but no.

34:03

It's not just the Cretaceous. It's the Jurassic and the Triassic, and before that, it goes all the way through the rock record.

34:09

We're finding things like this, like blood cells, like Mary Schweitzer says, lined up like a train inside of an artery.

34:16

What is that blood cell doing there? What is a vein still doing there if this bone really is millions of years old?

34:23

But the trouble with evolutionists is that they stepped on a landmine that one of these things they discovered is collagen, and collagen is very well studied on its decay rate, and people can estimate how quickly they think that this bio -organic material might decay because collagen helps make up bone because bones are made out of bone mineral like the calcium and the phosphorus, the hard rocky stuff that makes bones stiff, and then collagen makes up most of the fiber that makes bones a little bit flexible.

34:54

So you think if you grab a cow bone from a slaughterhouse and throw it out in the mud that the collagen is going to decay the most quickly.

35:04

So it's going to be all gone, and you're going to be left with maybe some bone mineral. Maybe only that should last for a couple hundred years or maybe a few thousand years, but they're finding this stuff, and there's been at least five different studies that have investigated the decay rate, the maximum shelf life of collagen, and experts want to fight about this all the time, but some people say maybe 10 ,000 years and some scientists report maybe 30 ,000 years or some stuff that says maybe 100 ,000 years, but some of the leading studies say, well, we'll give it 300 ,000 years to maybe 900 ,000 years tops, and some might stretch it out a little bit more, but my point is this.

35:41

It doesn't matter. Until you can explain how it lasts 65 million years or more, it doesn't matter if it's less than a million years because it can't be that old according to their theory.

35:52

So if collagen has got this half -life of no more than a million years, well, how does it last 65 million years?

36:00

It's impossible. It's scientific evidence that really, really produces an ironclad case for us.

36:08

I'm not going to play this video today, but I could show you video after video after video of multiple scientists who have been trained in paleo -biochemistry, paleontology, chemists, molecular chemists.

36:21

Over and over and over again, YouTube is replete with these scientists going, yep,

36:26

I can't believe it. I had to send the bone back for investigation in a lab test 17 times because I couldn't believe it.

36:34

People saying no one expected it. These are trained secular paleontologists who would send in their papers with these analysis showing the soft tissue, send it in for peer review so it can get published, and reviewers saying

36:48

I won't publish this information because it's impossible. When the authors of these papers say, well, what amount of evidence would convince you?

36:57

The reviewers write back, nothing. There's no way to convince me. Study after study would show this.

37:04

In the 1970s, and I'm not really exaggerating here, I could talk with a few scholars that might want to argue with me about a few percentage points because I'm going to use some extreme stuff here, but I'm going to make the case that in the 1970s, roughly 100 % of paleontologists would make this statement.

37:24

All dinosaur fossils are rocks. And that's why when things happen and change, we're starting to find soft tissues in here.

37:32

When Mary Schweitzer started discovering this stuff, the science journals are coming out with titles like Dinosaur Shocker.

37:40

Well, why is it a dinosaur shocker? Because no one expected to find this stuff. And even the subtitle here is

37:47

The probing 68 -million -year -old T. rex Mary Schweitzer stumbled upon astonishing signs of life that may radically change our view of the ancient beasts.

37:56

And here's another one that says Schweitzer's dangerous discovery. Well, why is it a dangerous discovery?

38:03

This is a science journal reporting this. Why is Mary Schweitzer's discovery of soft tissue dangerous?

38:09

You guys can answer that question, but think about that. Why is it a dangerous discovery? And then Mary Schweitzer says,

38:17

I had one reviewer tell me that he didn't care what data I said. He knew that what

38:25

I was finding wasn't possible. I wrote back and said, well, what data would convince you? And he said, none. There's the quote there.

38:31

Another one, this is from PhysOrg. Scientists discover T. rex dinosaur soft tissue. And it says, and I'm going to read you this little tiny fine print.

38:40

It says, conventional wisdom among paleontologists states that when dinosaurs died and became fossilized, soft tissues didn't preserve.

38:47

The bones were essentially transformed into rocks through a gradual replacement of all organic material by minerals.

38:56

New research by North Carolina State University paleontologists, however, could literally turn that theory inside out.

39:03

And that's exactly what happened, because in the 1970s, 100 % would say dinosaur fossils are rocks.

39:09

And in 2020s, zero of 100 paleontologists who are studying this literature can now make that statement.

39:18

Zero. Can say all dinosaurs, fossils are rocks. Now 100 % of them have to say, well, many dinosaur fossils are bones.

39:29

They're still bones. And 100 % also have to say many dinosaur fossils are bones that have soft tissue organic to the creature.

39:37

Because one of their rescuing devices early on was like, well, it can't be to the creature.

39:42

It's contamination. It's makeup foundation that fell off of someone's face in the lab and landed into the sample, or it's an ostrich or something that died on top of the

39:54

T. rex that leached itch collagen into the T. rex bone or things like that.

39:59

But now they did studies and proved at the molecular level this collagen that they're finding is organic to the creature.

40:07

So is this really science? Or is this religion? Just stew on this for a second.

40:14

We've seen a 180 -degree flip, a complete reversal of what used to be a scientific truth.

40:21

So let's look at it this way. Dinosaur fossils are just mineralized bone impressions.

40:28

1970s, 100%. A paleontologist would say that, now 0%. A complete reversal.

40:36

What about this? What percentage of secular paleontologists would say dinosaur bones contain 16 bio -organic soft tissues?

40:45

Used to be 0%, now it's 100%. This is profound.

40:50

This is a scientific paradigm shift. So what's happening? The logical thing that scientists should do is to move this evidence into a shorter timeline.

41:00

That's what logic would dictate. Maybe these bones really aren't that old. But they're never going to do that.

41:05

Why? Because they're clawing on to the ideas of millions of years because they have to have it.

41:11

Because, another bold statement, every major tenant of evolution requires millions of years.

41:18

Not some, every aspect of the foundation of evolution requires millions of years.

41:23

So that's why they have to hold on to it. Here's another statement from the founder of the largest dinosaur museum in the world, the

41:30

Royal Terrell Museum. By the way, the geologist that I met that changed his mind after listening to my daughter's conversion rant that she had, the next day

41:40

I met him again up at the Royal Terrell Museum. We were at the gift shop. There's literally like 100 people in this gift shop, and he was the guy behind me in line.

41:49

So we had another divine appointment. Had a great conversation with him. And then two hours later, I bumped into him again at a rockin' gym shop.

41:56

It was just crazy. God would not let this guy off the hook. So what this guy says at the

42:02

Royal Terrell Museum, he says, well, usually most of the original bone is still present in a dinosaur fossil.

42:10

Do you think he could have said that in the 1970s or 1960s? He would have been branded a lunatic because the conventional knowledge, the wisdom, the truth of science back in the 70s was, well, these bones are fossilized rock impressions of what used to be bones.

42:30

They're no longer bones. They're rocks. I was indoctrinated in that. Brian was indoctrinated in that.

42:35

You guys were indoctrinated into that. But now it's completely flipped 180 degrees. So does it make more sense that these bones and these bio -organics are 4 ,500 years old or 65 million years old?

42:48

We throw millions of years around like it's an easy thing, but when you stop and think about collagen habits, decay rate, let's give it to the evolutionists that a maximum shelf life is a million years.

42:59

If we just concede that point, well, that's not 65 more million years.

43:06

That's incredibly long for this material to last. So when we find these dinosaur soft tissues, should we change the interpretation to thousands of years old or should we find other ways to make sure that they can last for millions of years?

43:22

What do you think the field is doing? So we could take these dinosaur soft tissue findings. The logical scientific thing would be to reinvestigate the timeline and change your mind about that.

43:32

So we should use that data to support this, change the interpretation that they're thousands of years old, but what do they do?

43:41

Now we have to go find rescuing ways to stretch this stuff out to make it last millions of years longer than every known scientific study to date says they should last.

43:53

That's what's going on. So I wanted to spend some time on this today because I want you guys to really get the implications of this and when you have your coffee conversation, you can convey these points because they are really compelling points,

44:05

I think. So the implication here for moving it to the thousands of years would be to say, well, maybe the

44:11

Bible is historically accurate, but the implication would be, well, we need to get a hold on evolution and live without accountability.

44:20

So the reason they're clawing onto this millions of years idea is that they can't have evolution be true because it requires giving accountability to a moral law giver and a

44:31

God who creates everything. So that's why there's such tension over this. So Romans 1 says, this is what's really going on, for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth and unrighteousness because what might be known to them is manifest to them, for God has made it known to them.

44:52

And it says that they're going to exchange the truth of God for the lie. And 2 Peter 3 says that in the last days, people are going to deliberately forget that God created out of water and he destroyed everything by a flood.

45:05

That's why things like the soft tissue discovery are going to just continue to not be, you know, not be very well known.

45:14

So I really think that closes the case for dinosaurs and the subsequent living of some dinosaurs that got off the ark afterwards and turned into what we know as dragons.

45:26

So what I'm going to do next, in the last maybe 10 minutes here of my talk, I'm going to give you a quick survey of some information about dragon evidence.

45:35

But do we really need dragon myths and legends for, you know, we don't have any videos of dragons.

45:41

So this next part of my talk is all speculation. It's a historical consideration that we can look into these dragons.

45:50

Now if someone said, you know what, Dan, we just found a small sauropod in the Congo, I'm not going to be shocked.

45:57

Other people would be shocked, but I'm not going to be shocked. I don't need that evidence to confirm my faith.

46:02

So all of this is confirmatory because there are literally hundreds of myths and legends and drawings and historical accounts, ancient military accounts of these dragon -like creatures.

46:13

And it's not just one place. It's all over the world. But let's just take one small little geographical area.

46:20

Let's go to the United Kingdom and guess how many dragon myths and legends there are in just Britain alone.

46:29

81. You go back through all the books and read all these textbooks, there's 81 distinct accounts, myths and legends about these dragon -like creatures and humans having encounters with these dragons.

46:42

That's just in one small place. In China, there's even more. But in Britain, there's just 81.

46:49

And you know what I think? I think when you look at all these myths, carvings, paintings, legends, military accounts and all this stuff,

46:56

I think most of them are fakes or lies or things that are just completely not true.

47:04

Some of them maybe have some truth to them, but I think some of them are real.

47:12

And some of them have more compelling, convincing evidences that they're true, but some of them seem a little bit exaggerated and pushed out.

47:21

But look at it this way. Here are six renowned historians, Marco Polo, Alexander the

47:27

Great, Cassius Dao, Athanasius Kircher, Pliny the Elder, Herodotus. Many of us have heard of these names.

47:34

You can go to the Harvard libraries and look up history. And many scholars would review these guys as historians of their times that go back hundreds of years, or Herodotus all the way back to the 5th century

47:45

B .C. They're famous historians. What did all of these guys have in common?

47:51

They regarded dragons as real creatures. They wrote about them. They described them. They gave reports of them.

47:56

All six of these guys reported dragons as real creatures. Let's just look at one,

48:03

Marco Polo, who went all over the world, was famous for doing a lot of his maps.

48:10

He popularized the Silk Road that came around. He visited Europe and China and Asia, recorded it in great detail.

48:18

Great historian. Lots and lots of records we have about this guy, Marco Polo. But what's less known about him?

48:24

Well, he's got a really good, compelling story about these dragon -like creatures where he says, look, there's this province named

48:32

Karajan. Here are found snakes as huge serpents, 10 pages in length and 10 spans in girth, 50 feet long and 100 inches in girth.

48:41

At the forepart near the head, they have two short legs, each with three claws, as well as eyes larger than a loaf of bread and very glaring.

48:50

The jaws are wide enough to swallow a man. The teeth are large and sharp. Their whole appearance is so formidable that neither man nor kind of animal can approach them without terror.

49:01

Others are smaller in size, being eight, six, or five paces. This is just one of many, many strong, very practical accounts of dragon -like creatures.

49:11

Here's one that Vance Nelson did when he went to Peru to find this one. It's a little bit hard to see because of the light, but it looks like a sauropod here surrounded by multiple hunters that are holding up spears.

49:25

He carbon dated the ink pigments in here and it came back at about 3 ,300 years old.

49:33

Somehow, these people in a Peruvian Amazon are coloring on a wall of a cave and drawing what looks like a sauropod dinosaur being hunted to death.

49:45

The list goes on. Here is a huge temple in Tophram, Cambodia.

49:51

I know a guy who's been here before. You look around this great temple. Well, it's got an engraving, a stone engraving that looks an awful lot like a stegosaurus.

50:02

You can see plates up here on the top. It's got a horn that comes back on its side and shoulders. It's got a long tail.

50:07

It looks like a rhinoceros in the front, but it's got these huge plates that go across on the top. We can zoom in a little bit closer and here is another picture.

50:16

That's what a stegosaurus looks like. It tends to come right out on top of a stegosaurus. Here's another one.

50:22

They called it a crocodile leopard in the 1st century BC. It's on the

50:28

Nile Mosaic, Palestrina. It's a floor mosaic. It's a huge floor mosaic, over 20 feet long.

50:36

It's not an alligator. Look at the hind legs here. Look at the front. Look at the teeth.

50:41

Definitely not an alligator. It looks an awful lot like this creature, a gorgonopsis.

50:49

There's a picture of one by a paleo artist. Here's what they drew 2 ,100 years ago.

50:57

Here's what this creature looks like. Here's what its face looks like. Looks to me like a crocodile lizard. I want to call that creature that.

51:05

When you look at the metanarrative of these dragon accounts, I really do think that these two come out as a winner.

51:12

Different types of theropods seem to be repeatedly told in the literature and different types of flying reptiles like these pterosaurs.

51:21

Here's an account, and we'll almost wrap up here just a little bit more. Here's an account from Cassius Deo about 1 ,900 years ago.

51:30

He's a Roman historian. He published all these 80 volumes of Roman history. Many of them we still have.

51:36

He's talking about this Roman general Marcellus Artilius Regulus who served during the

51:41

Punic War. He says, like this, a dragon suddenly crept up and settled behind the wall of the

51:47

Roman army. The Romans killed it by the order of Regulus, skinned it, and sent the hide to a

51:52

Roman senate. It happened to be 120 feet long, and its thickness was fitting to the length.

51:58

Why would the guy write stuff like that if it's not true? What about Athanasius Kircher?

52:04

He writes here, he talks about in this chapter on dragons, he says, on winged dragons dispute is only origin between authors, most of whom declare them to be fanciful, but these authors are contradicted by histories and eyewitnesses.

52:20

Winged dragons, small, great, and greatest, have been produced at all times and at every land.

52:28

Another interesting story goes on from, this guy Herodotus is known as the father of history from about 2 ,500 years back.

52:36

A Greek historian, he says, winged serpents are said to fly from Arabia at the beginning of the spring, making for Egypt, but the

52:44

Ibis birds encounter the invaders in this pass and kill them. The serpents are like water snakes, their wings are not feathered, but very much like the wings of bats.

52:53

This is a rough sampling, and I could take all of these and throw them away and burn them, and I would still believe that dragon -like creatures lived after the flood, because the

53:04

Bible says so, and I think it's very clear, but this is bonus evidence to me, it's supplemental, and this is a sampling, but you guys,

53:13

I could stay here for two hours with all the different dragon books that we have, because these stories, and more like them, heap up after up.

53:22

The stack is amazing. In fact, for our dragon video that we're going to do, we're going to give people on that video a quick tour around the world at about 10 seconds per dragon, and we're going to go through probably 50 of them really, really quickly, so people can get the sense that this isn't people making these stories up, because you can take this culture on this side of the world, and this culture on this side of the world, and you know what?

53:47

They're describing beasts that look almost dead similar. How in the world could you do that if they're all inventing these fanciful creatures?

53:56

But they're not. Okay, guys, I will wrap up here. Do we have time for a couple questions,

54:01

Dr. Nicholas? Okay, we'll take time for a couple questions if we can. There's usually a few.

54:11

Yes. Yeah, so most people who have studied

54:29

T. rexus would actually say that they probably weren't ferocious hunters that ran down and killed their prey.

54:37

There's a lot with how deep the root systems are in their teeth that they probably couldn't grab and shake like your kill shake that a dog would do or something like that.

54:46

They were probably scavengers, but the same faculties of fangs and claws can be used for breaking up breadfruit or cantaloupe and eating vegetation, and they can also be used for carnivorous purposes.

55:00

So Isaiah 11 and 61 talk about like the lion's going to lay with the lamb and kids are going to play with snakes.

55:06

So it talks about these big creatures that are today carnivorous like a lion can use those same claws for climbing trees and the same fangs for just eating.

55:17

So the behaviors with those features were developed after the fall.

55:24

Yeah, good. Okay, any more questions? Maybe take two more before we transition to the next speaker.

55:30

Yes. Yes, I would hold the position that the

55:48

Bible says in Genesis that all kinds or every one of the air -breathing, land -dwelling creatures will be brought to you and you shall bring them onto the ark.

55:58

It was God who rodeoed all these animals together and brought them onto the ark.

56:04

So I would hold that position, and they were probably brought on as juveniles or as smaller ones.

56:10

But I do think it's very obvious that some of these creatures probably went extinct really quickly afterwards because they were still acting in a carnivorous way, and so they were probably hunted and killed to extinction by man, just like grizzly bears.

56:23

There's no more grizzly bears in California anymore because they were hassling, and they can kill people easily.

56:28

Look at polar bears up in Alaska. So yeah, we believe that all of them were on the ark, but most of them went extinct probably pretty quickly.

56:37

Alright, time for one more question maybe? Or is that it?

56:47

Yes, we've got a Q &A session today, but you guys, thank you very much for having me. That was a lot of fun. Alright.