Cultish: Ukraine - Media Misinformation & The Fog of War, Pt. 1

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Cultish: The Mormon Multiverse, Pt. 2

00:03

All right, welcome back to cultish ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jeremiah Roberts one of the co -hosts here

00:08

I am very excited for this episode Andrew, how are you doing, man? That's good. It's good. Always have you back.

00:15

I feel like we've been off a couple weeks It's good to talk to you again virtually. I know I'm always very happy to see you

00:21

Jerry It's beautiful out here in Utah wildflowers are blooming allergies are in full season But I couldn't be more thankful to be alive man.

00:28

Happy to be here. Awesome Andrew. What so tell me What do you what do you know about Ukraine? What do

00:34

I know about Ukraine? Yeah, what's your thoughts in Ukraine? Whose side are you on? Yeah, honestly, I have no

00:39

I honestly have no idea. I don't really have a formulated opinion So that's why I'm happy that we're gonna be talking about this today because I'm not very it

00:47

I'm not a very trusting person of news outlets or media. Yeah, or of our government in general.

00:53

So oh, yeah I know I I feel the same way, too I feel like the only time I should I know when our government's not telling the truth is when they're they're flapping their gums but Yeah, I'm very excited for this episode

01:04

I mean a lot of you might be asking what on earth this cult is doing talking about Ukraine I mean,

01:09

I mean we cover, you know stuff that's cultish Well, you're gonna find out as we kind of unravel this so we've got two guests with us today.

01:17

We actually have first Jacobi From Ukraine.

01:22

You're actually in Ukraine right now. What so it's currently 206 p .m. Right now.

01:27

What time is it over there? Well, oh six twelve oh six a minute so midnight

01:34

So you're burning the midnight oil to be on the podcast? Gotcha. Yes. I'm here. Okay. So what what part of Ukraine are you in right now?

01:42

Currently, I'm nirvana Frank East. Okay, which is more West more

01:48

Close like a not even an hour drive from the Carpathian Mountains Okay, which stretched down through Romania and then over into Hungary so there's like a mountain range really close to me

02:00

Okay, and previously I lived in Odessa on the Black Sea for over 11 years.

02:05

Hmm. Awesome, man I appreciate that and also we've got Paul with us who's actually coming in from you said,

02:11

Ohio, but you're Oklahoma, Oklahoma, okay. I got the O part, right? So remind me again.

02:18

So you are you are a native of Ukrainian or you immigrate over there? What's what's your immigrated to Ukraine?

02:25

married into mmm Ukraine just like that you Kobe did right?

02:30

Okay, so I moved there in 2011 got my status through marriage into 2012 Then we started a ministry in 2016 that we've been working with Gotcha.

02:39

Gotcha. So just a couple things. I'm just very curious about so it like what's the size of the country?

02:45

I like I live in Arizona. It's I'm visualizing like Arizona Texas California like what's the actual side thing?

02:52

If it was a state, what would it be closest to? I'm from Texas. So I always Compare things to Texas.

02:59

Yeah Yeah, it's almost exactly the same size as Texas or France just a little bit

03:06

I Think France would be bigger if you included water area.

03:11

Mm -hmm. Yeah Okay, so roughly so big. Okay. Okay. I got you.

03:17

It's the largest country in Europe Yeah, and so I'm very interested because this is something that no one was really thinking about Ukraine I mean until February of last year and all of a sudden, you know, it was on the news

03:31

We always kind of knew kind of Vladimir Putin He always seemed to be somewhat of a character kind of in the background

03:36

Interacting with world leaders and that sort of stuff me We'll talk about him later on but it was really a last year when this whole invasion happened

03:43

And I think it was just interesting because I called the Harambee effect where you know a couple years ago

03:49

You think of Harambee the gorilla and what happened at the zoo and it seemed like overnight Everyone became an expert on what the zoo person should or should not have done

03:59

You know shooting Harambee versus like rescuing the boy and it seems that especially on the internet world People always make knee -jerk react opinions to things whether it's that Will Smith slapping

04:09

Chris Rock and all of a sudden it's like you then like jerseys are made And you have to pick a Floyd.

04:14

Yes. Yeah Right and huge knee -jerk Right knee -jerk reaction.

04:19

So you know, it's it's a I think it's part and parcel to what we're talking about So all of a sudden you had to pick a side

04:25

Is it you know black lives matter is it blue lives matters that all lives matter and then

04:30

L also in everyone that bike picks Aside, so what I noticed is that that was immediately the case when it was with Ukraine before we get into that Is it is a war right is it wrong, you know, is it is it some sort of you know, wag the dog, you know

04:45

Fraudulent operation, but I don't know. I want to hear from you So you were living in Ukraine at the time when Putin invaded it though last year, right?

04:55

I Was are you asking me? Yeah Yes, I was I was in Odessa and we left it was the next day

05:03

We had a friend that was trying to get on a train to leave the country. A lot of people were panicking and We had made a decision that We were going to stay here and try to help people.

05:15

Mm -hmm, but when they started bombing things we we it was just Chaotic.

05:23

I don't know how to describe it. It was I was praying for wisdom not sure what to do and I Decided that we had actually

05:36

I lived in Ukraine for 10 years years without a vehicle but Through crypto investments that had done really well

05:45

Obviously, I bought like a ten -year -old SUV. Yeah, and and for the sake if we needed to evacuate and So we had bags packed already just in case and Friend was trying to leave the country and the

06:03

Moldova border from Odessa is only like a hour hour and a half drive Mm -hmm, so We decided okay.

06:12

We have these two friends that are trying to leave the country Let's get in the car and get out of here And so but the line at the border took us something like 32 hours

06:22

To get through because there was just so many cars trying to leave. Yeah, I can only imagine yeah, so we went to Moldova and Long story short.

06:32

We were in Moldova for six weeks before we decided to re -enter Ukraine But we went back to our house or flat in Odessa and got our belongings out of there

06:44

And we moved to Ivano -Frankivsk further west like further away from the red line We're there fighting and Paul.

06:51

So what's your vantage point? You were in Ohio at the time as well, too When this took place or where were you last year everyone that's took place so, uh,

07:01

I Was in Kiev when the war began but in 2022 when it escalated

07:06

We were out of town we actually came to America for for six Months on August 31st, and we had a return ticket for February 14th, 2022

07:18

Mm -hmm, and the violence escalated on the 24th, but in January the

07:23

Russians were on the border So the all the airlines stopped flying in so we've been cut adrift here in America Oklahoma now we're going to Arkansas next month.

07:32

It's been It Hasn't been a pleasant experience on our end But yeah, so many people have been suffering so much more than we have so it's hard to complain.

07:42

Mm -hmm I've been able to extract my mother -in -law.

07:48

We've made some trips to Western Europe, but Haven't haven't made it home. Okay Hey, what's up, everyone?

07:54

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08:39

All right. Well, let me ask you this and Andrew. Let's jump in here a second What do you think just I'm a lot of our answers probably are you listening probably wanting to take sides already?

08:49

You know, I think they're viewing Ukraine through the lens probably a Western media But let me ask you this with both of you.

08:54

What do you think is the biggest thing people under misunderstand about this whole conflict? This is something that's very personal to you for many people.

09:01

It's just a talk a political talking point for you This is you know, your home really your homestead your livelihood the people that you're connected to and care for and love

09:10

What do you what do people what's the biggest thing people misunderstand about this whole this whole? predicament that we're all in and trying to make sense of Either one of you can

09:19

I'll that's for either one of you Do you want to go first because that's a hard question the biggest yeah, we got we got a cookie start crumbling this cookie somewhere

09:30

I've been in a bit of a unique situation being able to be in America and interacting with predominantly conservative

09:36

Americans and It's it's it's terrible terribly unfortunate to see

09:43

People who are both politically and theologically conservative who are

09:49

Taking sides with Russia, which is not a Christian state, which is

09:56

They are Running with the Russian Orthodox Church, which is a cult. It is not a form of Christianity and They are taking theological or political views that are not right -wing

10:09

But closer to the left now, there are some distinctions between what? Putin and his ideology is doing and what the left is doing.

10:20

I understand there are some distinctions but if we're going to hold to biblicism and and Conservative ideology politically speaking if we're going to be right -wingers then everything that the the philosophy that that Putin is working with here his political theology as Just red flags all over it

10:41

But a lot of people aren't really looking into the actual ideology that's fueling the Russian side of the war They're just looking at the leftist media and we can't trust the leftist media

10:53

So what do we do? We take whatever the leftist media says take the inverse and that must be truth You do that and all the sudden you're turning to the leftist media for what's true granted in an inverted fashion

11:04

I've been very disappointed in seeing how especially Conservative Christians like me are not building a biblical worldview that includes

11:13

Political response to what's happening over. Yeah, and Jacobi what about you?

11:20

so listening to Paul that helped me formulate an answer and I think it would be

11:26

Because they distrust the media Who I think most of your listeners know if they don't know they should know that most of the mainstream media is very leftist right and is you know controlled by you know certain individuals with power and I Would say that they're looking for To understand and it so where do they go?

11:51

They go to the conservative commentators? Who that's where they find the refuge of understanding and people like, you know,

11:59

Charlie Kirk Candace Owens Walsh, you know, so on and so forth or Jordan Peterson and It's crazy because well, you know 80 % of Congress voted to fund weapons and aid going to The Ukrainian war now that doesn't mean that they're all like altruistic in their motives or they don't own stocks in the military industrial complex right or any of that stuff, but the actual like conservative political commentators

12:37

They have by and large got Ukraine just completely wrong No, I I was completely with them on on George Floyd and a

12:46

Tifa I was completely with him on kovat and stuff. But then when it came to Ukraine, it was like What?

12:53

Yeah, what are you saying right now, especially Tucker Carlson, you know, he's huge I mean he had just so like such a huge audience and Then and I just I really loved him when it come to his commentary on kovat, but when he would talk about Ukraine it was it kind of felt like Are you actually?

13:16

Doing the true work of a journalist and and researching this deeply, right?

13:22

Are you just gathering information on the day and writing a kind of snappy? Spunky monologue, right?

13:31

Because Tucker he has this personality. It's like kind of spunky. He you know, he has the hair that's like the guy next door

13:38

He looks very trustworthy people like to listen to him because he's questioning the establishment and I watched

13:46

Several of his videos and he talked about how he used to be for the war in Iraq But then when he discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction

13:56

Then he started to question this whole narrative about why are we going to war? Why do we have

14:01

NATO? You know look at the military industrial complex, you know, and then the mainstream media complex it became glaringly obvious who was controlling it and But I just think that he just kind of would jump to conclusions too quickly because if you look in history at The u .s.

14:22

War in Iraq or the u .s. War in Yemen or Libya or Vietnam? They they did

14:30

Really wicked things like you you might argue that or Afghanistan like we shouldn't have been there

14:36

We shouldn't have been doing whatever it was. We were doing there Yeah, so then you go to Ukraine it's like well we shouldn't be there like no one war we should be isolationist now

14:47

I would agree like generally speaking we should be isolationist like We don't have to police everything around the world but But we if we are going to police something we should do it righteously

15:05

You know, yeah, so I Just think a lot of the things that we were meddling in were a war racket, you know

15:12

Like if you look back at I think it was General Butler You might have seen the movie

15:18

Amsterdam. Yeah, but it was based on a true story of this general who?

15:24

these Basically, he's he he fought many wars for America and he explains how war is a racket, right?

15:31

Like basically a more America's involved in wars because they want to make money, right?

15:37

Right. So and I personally think they're doing the same thing in Ukraine But at the same time

15:48

That's where it gets complicated because is it right for America to help

15:53

Ukraine I Personally think it is. Okay. So like I'm Anti George Soros and the things he does

16:01

I'm anti his philosophy of open society and reflexivism and stuff but like if you watch the

16:10

Soros documentary he He basically goes into places that have totalitarian regimes

16:17

You know other than America, uh -huh, and he and he funds grassroots

16:23

NGO movements He says, you know, he meets some people in there that have kind of intellectual and motivational potential and he funds them right with significant amounts of money and He's pretty much hands -off at least according to this documentary called

16:41

Soros He funds them and just watches what happens kind of gives them the benefit of the doubt.

16:47

So he did this in Ukraine 1989 I think it was and Pushing back against kind of communist totalitarianism or oligarchical

17:00

Autocracy, whatever you clip talk to see what I want to call it and so I would argue that He actually does good things but if You follow his philosophy through on the long run out term.

17:16

It ends up doing damage to the night to the society, so It's it's just so complicated like I don't even know if Zelensky Understands what's going on because he wasn't a politician.

17:30

He wasn't a philosopher. He wasn't a Diplomat he was an actor

17:36

He was only the second second president who has who has never been an oligarch

17:42

There was you Shanko who was poisoned and almost died You know and then

17:48

Zelensky he's only the second president of Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union to not be an oligarch and so He's stepping into this kind of cold turkey.

18:00

Yeah, he has kind of talents as just Person with wit and if I give him the benefit of the doubt,

18:09

I think he genuinely loves Ukraine I think he generally genuinely loves his family

18:15

But he is I Guess the question comes to what

18:21

I think many American conservatives suspect is Is he in cahoots with the

18:27

World Economic Forum? It's right. Is he in cahoots with all these other leftists?

18:33

And I can't I can't say yes or no, but I can say before he stepped into office.

18:40

He was just a comedian and And so I watched many documentaries with people interviewing him and It seems to me that he really does love

18:53

Ukraine. He just loves the people here and he loves his family and he's just fighting for his country and These are the people in power and he's he is

19:06

Has no choice. He's desperate for help So he's just for the people who are

19:13

You know reigning over everything. Okay, he's basically pleading for their help.

19:20

No interesting Paul Do what? What comes to my anything off of what

19:25

Jacob? He just said what comes to mind off of? Is there anything you'd like to expand on that just any thoughts that you have given your vantage point as well, too.

19:33

Oh Goodness On the topic of Zelensky, I think that this is an important point

19:39

I'm not a big Zelensky worshiper by any means, right? In fact, I was very critical of him early on in his presidency

19:47

I'm a Zionist. I'm very pro -israel and if you're not then that's a different topic but He sort of grew up, but I'm not a

19:57

Zionist. Oh, okay You don't have to be a Zionist to be pro -israel, right?

20:03

I believe 11. Yeah, if you if you hold to you know if you're if you're

20:13

Pro -israel and you see the way that he sort of blew off Netanyahu earlier in his presidency that's sort of put a bad taste in my mouth, but As you could be said, he's he didn't come up as a politician.

20:24

He's not an oligarch. He's a comedian, right? He's ethnically Jewish, by the way, 60 % of the country voted for him

20:31

So this whole business about Ukraine being Nazis that I ain't hearing it, right? America hasn't had a 60 % vote for for a single president for for a while probably since Reagan, right?

20:40

Who was an actor, right? So there's a lot of overlap between Acting and comedians and presidency there's a ability to present yourself on stage and everything

20:53

Something that a lot of a lot of people are concerned about and would be the the corruption in Ukraine.

21:00

I Don't think I know a single Ukrainian I don't even think there's a Ukrainian that exists who would say that Ukraine is not corrupt.

21:08

Of course, it's corrupt it comes out of it's coming out of the former Soviet Union, which is a

21:14

An evil empire That went woke a little over a hundred years ago and tried to inflict

21:25

Marxism on the world Every post -soviet country is very corrupt

21:30

Ukraine is not unique in that it's corrupt Ukraine is unique in that it fights corruption We had the

21:35

Maidan Revolution in 2013 to get rid of Yanukovych because he was a corrupt puppet of Putin a lot of people died in Ukraine Fighting against corruption.

21:45

Okay So if you're if you like corruption Then Ukraine's the bad guy for you.

21:52

You should be pulling for Russia, right? But if you like fighting corruption, then Ukraine is the good guy. Yeah Zelensky Himself he did not come up as one of these politicians who was corrupt in a corrupt system and had to race to the top

22:08

Through the the dirty maneuvers that politicians do to get to the top. No, he was

22:17

Outside of the political system. He was a comedian He gained his popularity and his influence outside of the system and then ran for office and was voted in by the other populace of Ukraine So if you like democracy, then you should be a pro

22:31

Zelensky guy not a pro -putin guy. Hmm Very no, I appreciate you sharing that Andrew.

22:37

Yeah you so in, Utah You know, Utah is a very left -leaning especially the more you go to downtown,

22:43

Utah Have you seen a lot of you have you seen Ukraine flags in Utah Andrew? Oh, yeah, they're everywhere man.

22:49

What's Absolutely. What's the immediate assumption when you see a Ukraine flag? What's the immediate?

22:54

What's the media assumption? Media comes to mind when you see those it's usually accompanied by a LGBTQ plus alphabet soup flag

23:01

Right. Usually those two flags go hand in hand I have a question just to back it up a little bit Jacoby for you and then

23:07

Paul maybe you can Give more detail as well. But there you said that there seems to be this weird situation where the right

23:16

Media at least like Tucker Carlson is portraying Ukraine in a way that might not be actually accurate

23:21

Whereas there's parts of the leftist media where they're more in support of Ukraine for people living under a rock like myself in some of our listeners, what essentially is the differences between What the right is saying and what the left is saying in the

23:35

United States in terms of Ukraine in the war that's going on right now That's complicated because it depends on who you ask because if you go to Congress that's funding

23:45

Ukraine 80 % of Republicans Voted yes on the bill Now if you ask like Kevin Freeman Who wrote a great book called according to plan or Rand Paul?

23:58

They're gonna tell you Congress is not even reading these bills you know, and so like Some Republicans and some

24:08

Democrats own stock in the military industrial complex, which of course incentivizes their decisions, but the heart is complex and who knows maybe they

24:21

Genuinely care about Ukraine and they want to make money at the same time. I don't know but It's not

24:30

I Understand that is kind of creepy that the fact that you know, the virtual sig the virtue signalers who kind of just go with the whatever the mainstream media is pushing and they give that flag that That's Disheartening because I was as a missionary for a decade was trying to get people to care about Ukraine to go to Ukraine on short -term mission trips and Just to even

25:01

I was like You know making phone calls or flying to the US and visiting churches just to invite people to come here

25:10

To go on a short -term missions trips just in hopes that they might fall in love with the people here and want to serve the

25:18

Country. So when I see this kind of fanaticism about Ukraine me personally

25:24

Actually feel a little bit of frustration because I'm like I was trying to get people interested in Ukraine You know for a decade and now everyone loves

25:36

Ukraine overnight It's famous because you know, thanks to the Mainstream media or whatever.

25:43

Yeah, so I guess the bottom line question is like what is really right in God's eyes like You know like Thomas soul.

25:55

He talks about cosmic justice versus social justice like Differentiating between these different types of justice and I I Always ask what is

26:07

God's justice in this situation like people, you know a lot of conservatives especially

26:16

Not even necessarily libertarians but conservatives they're pushing more for this Isolationist viewpoint, right?

26:23

I like a lot of libertarian ideas, but I don't agree with Isolationism because if you're the main power in the world, you should not first of all

26:33

You shouldn't sabotage it. Like I think the Democrats are doing and second of all you have a responsibility to your neighbor and A lot of people think who are you to impose your ideas on the rest of the world?

26:49

well if we were actually imposing righteous ideas

26:54

We have the foundation of the Apostles and the prophets. That's who we are to impose the idea this

27:01

We're basically imposing reality On the rest of the world. Yeah, and we should do that We we have a mandate actually to do that and we shouldn't be doing that and that's just for profit we should be doing that out of out of what's for what's right and what's wrong, so Yes is

27:22

America helping Ukraine for profit. I think so Should America be helping

27:27

Ukraine because it's what's right I think so Yeah It's complicated.

27:35

Yeah, gotcha. Paul. What do you what are your thoughts in regards to Andrews question that he asked? Regarding the media, right?

27:46

Yes, there is a gross misconception that the left is pro

27:51

Ukraine and this virtue signaling is Only virtue signaling waving a

27:58

Ukrainian flag does not necessarily mean that you support Ukraine or the Ukrainian people or that you're opposed to Putin It means it is cool to have a

28:07

Ukrainian flag right now and you want to look cool, right? Not all the time.

28:12

There are some genuine people that are generally supporting Ukraine. Uh -huh So let's back up a little bit in the

28:23

Clinton era leftist president, right There was the Budapest Accords by which the

28:30

United States UK and Russia agreed to protect Ukraine contingent on Ukraine surrendering her nuclear weapons

28:36

So Ukraine gave up the nukes and UK US and Russia are obligated now to take care of Ukraine Fast forward to the

28:44

Maidan revolution in 2013 then in 2014 I was the president Yanukovych the puppet of Putin and Russia invades

28:55

Ukraine. So Russia's out I Remember the day a rather rather clearly actually

29:01

I was working in downtown Kiev at the time and there were a lot of security folk downtown I saw this is interesting but for mosey and During my lunch break and I saw who should

29:10

I see but but vice president Biden wandering around in a dazed and confused state as he does and Then I looked it up online see what was going on everything.

29:21

This was 2014 2014. Yeah. Oh, wow. I saw him twice out there actually there was a an occasion shortly after that when a lot of world leaders came out, but Anyhow, I'm like, well, that's interesting seeing the vice president to downtown

29:36

Kiev. I'm gonna look this up figure out what's happening Yeah, and I looked it up and sure enough It was the day that he came and declared that he would not be honoring the

29:45

Budapest Accords on the grounds that Ukraine is too corrupt and Then it was a few weeks later that the whole thing with Hunter Biden and the energy company everything took place, right interesting

29:56

So that was that was vice president comrade

30:04

Biden so the the war starts during vice president Biden's presidency then during the

30:11

Trump administration Around this time I'm living in Lviv and It's interesting.

30:17

You could see American soldiers in Lviv Frequently because they were stationed in Western Ukraine.

30:23

We had American boots on the ground Now they weren't over there on the front lines. They were in the back training up Ukrainian soldiers.

30:31

Okay, they're in the the Trump administration And then during the

30:39

Biden administration and so we're back to 2021 now a few things happened one thing a lot of media sources don't talk about this, but when the spring of 2021 do you remember this

30:54

Jacobi there was a An occasion or two where Russian troops started amassing on the the border with Ukraine Sort of testing out the new

31:04

American president see what he would do. Well Biden sent a boat Navy down to the

31:10

Black Sea and the troops dispersed This is the way that always happens with Putin by the way. He's like a playground bully

31:17

Go back to the invasion of Georgia back in 2008 Putin attacks, Georgia, then

31:22

President Bush sends a boat down to the Black Sea and then the troops go away, right so on it's so forth

31:31

Same thing happened in the spring of 2021 What's different in the spring of 21 and the winter of 2021 when the

31:37

Russian troops started amassing again? Anything significant happened in the military history? Yes the the absolute disaster of the fallout in Afghanistan.

31:46

Hmm when America pulled out of Afghanistan under President Biden's direction and it was an absolute dumpster fire, right?

31:55

Well Who noticed this and started amassing troops again on the border? and This time he loves to test

32:02

He loves to test and so long as you stand up history is proven when you stand up to Putin At least when

32:09

America stands up to Putin he backs down every time But this time in the winter after Biden's failure and embarrassment in Afghanistan Biden did not flex instead.

32:20

He withdrew American troops from Ukraine and then shortly thereafter the escalation occurs in the blitzkrieg on on Kiev, which fails because The Russian military is an absolute dumpster fire

32:34

So this notion that I would I would argue that there was sorry I you're you're taking away from the glory of God Come on, bro

32:47

There was actually I'm serious. There was uh I mean, it wasn't just it was a dumpster fire.

32:54

I mean they did idiotic things They didn't come with enough fuel that they didn't come with enough food because they thought it would take three days

33:01

But there were literal miraculous acts of God like this frustrates me because on twitter or Telegram wherever the ukrainians post the news there's sometimes ukrainian drones or choppers or That just crash for no reason and i'm like nobody just nobody thanked god

33:23

They're talking about slava ukraine and nobody Thanked god.

33:29

Are you kidding me? Come on? Yeah, so in those first three days of the war so many people were praying and it yes russia was was uh miscalculated tremendously

33:44

Why because god is sovereign He confounded them so anyways

33:50

Sorry, uh paul. I'm just trying to say that I really think that we should thank god for what that Ukraine was just not completely crushed

34:00

So you're right, but the question wasn't about god it was about the leftist media. Yes Thank you for bringing that up because god is much more important than the leftist.

34:12

Yeah, sorry for no All this to say that. Yeah, you're good. The left is not ukraine's friend.

34:18

Okay Uh, yeah, the left is the one that pulled troops out left is the one that forsook ukraine.

34:24

Okay uh The left is indeed giving ukraine money but Uh, the war could end tomorrow if only america would send troops into like laviv western ukraine, right?

34:38

If america would just flex Boom that would be it according to history with putin.

34:44

I think that is the the case now There are other analysts that would agree so if you uh

34:51

The the the left is the bad guy As it always is i'm not pretending like they're the good guys, but if you want to oppose the left

34:59

The way to oppose the left is not by saying we should do less Because the left is already doing less the way to oppose the left would be to say do more so whenever the

35:09

Uh people who consider themselves right -wingers say we need to decrease what we're giving to ukraine

35:16

They're not doing an anti -biden thing. They're doing an extreme biden thing. They're forsaking ukraine even more than biden is so Then the argument says well america first Uh, we've spent a lot of money in ukraine and we don't want to spend a lot of money

35:34

And uh as an american first fiscal conservative, I agree we want

35:42

Take care of america first. We don't want to spend a lot of money But let's take a look at what we've just done with the money. Um For what 10 of the defense budget for the course of a year.

35:52

We have crippled america's number two enemy absolutely crushed them That's not a bad deal a better deal would be to Send troops who are already on the payroll

36:02

Up to the border flex a little bit and have the russians back down that would be a better deal

36:08

What's happening now is not a terrible deal but to enable uh our

36:17

Number two enemy russia i'm speaking as an american first guy russia is our enemy anyone who does not understand that russia's the enemy is out of touch with russian politics but to enable our big enemy to uh, conquer more land and to work toward the uh,

36:34

Neo -eurasian utopia that they're working for. Yeah Neo -eurasianism is the political philosophy behind russia

36:42

That would be completely contrary to left to a right -wing american first Fiscal conservative ideology, right?

36:51

No, that that's good. And and what just one thing I want to read real quickly. Um, let me take my glasses off here

36:56

Um is this is a quote just in regards to media from francis schaefer And this is it has to do with media manipulation.

37:04

This is from How then shall we live one of my favorite books by him? And francis schaefer is says here says for a long time in philosophy and in popular area and in popularity in some of the mass media

37:16

People have been taught that truth as an objective truth does not exist All morals and laws are seen are seen as relative

37:24

Thus people gradually accept the idea of manipulation And a bit more gradually open themselves to accept the practice of varying forms of manipulation

37:33

And then he goes on to say One must not forget that every television minute has been edited.

37:39

The viewer does not see The event he sees an edited form of the event It is not the event which is seen but an edited symbol or an edited image of the event an aura

37:51

An illusion of objectivity and truth is built up Which could not be totally the case even if people shooting the film were completely neutral the physical limitations of the camera dictate the one

38:04

The only one aspect of the total situation is given if the camera were aimed 10 feet to the left or 10 feet to the right

38:13

A an entirely different adjective store objective story might come across And that so you see what he's trying and I think there's almost a

38:21

State of irony given he said the camera point to the left or to the right. So I think there's a literal

38:27

Analysis and also like an actual analysis too given the situation in ukraine

38:33

So this war from my perspective is very unique because it's the first major scale event one.

38:39

That's You see on social media So you have that so everyone is very different now that everyone has a camera which they can depict their opinion to depict their vantage point

38:50

So you have that but again, it's very similar to the black lives matter the george floyd wear a mask don't wear a mask you have to pick a team like i'm struggling with the fact that I I I think there's there's truth on both sides being told

39:05

But you're you're i'm being pushed to take on a jersey like one way or the other depending on whether you want to be pro -ukrainian or like crony war or Taking a different vantage point thinking that somehow this is a whole wag the dog

39:19

You know sort of situation, you know, like what are your guys thoughts on that? well, uh

39:27

Mark twain said that if you don't uh Read the newspaper.

39:33

You'll be uninformed But if you read the newspaper, you'll be misinformed And this was back

39:40

I think in the day of penny papers for people yeah paid one penny you know for a paper and and uh

39:48

People have understood from the early days of media That it's trying to persuade people of one way or the other and this idea

39:57

That schaefer pointed out of pointing the camera that to this angle or that angle This is not a metaphor.

40:04

This is literal like you can literally change the story By what you choose to show right in the clip

40:13

And that's only one technique. There's so many techniques you know like the cia if you go back to What's his name edward bernade's

40:24

Casey I think and yeah and there's like uh, the the nephew of sigmund freud studied propaganda and I mean this was decades ago they

40:32

These people have been developing the sophistication of media persuasion and psyops for decades

40:41

Yeah, just recently a guy named jacob siegel released an article on tablet mag that explains how in the past after 9 11 they started, you know previously they would always use

40:59

These kind of demonization tactics these demonization media tactics against foreign enemies but after 9 11 this grew right?

41:11

so and then Eventually They turned it around on actually on the american people and that's where you get actually this term disinformation

41:23

Disinformation So jacob siegel, he says I don't even like to use this term. I just say like normal american people.

41:30

They're either right or they're wrong because the term Term itself disinformation is a is a spy word right, so like we're now it's like Everyone's using this word like every day like oh, this is disinformation or misinformation but in the past this was a spy word, you know, so The the point

41:53

Is that they have used media they've turned it inward against the american people

41:59

To present a certain narrative to give a certain perspective of all things and a lot of conservatives have caught on to this right, especially with what happened with like george floyd and covet and so They're like we don't we don't trust any of this but the thing is

42:16

That doesn't mean that you just automatically trust tucker carlson or jordan peterson or candace

42:22

Oh, and you still have to listen to what they say through a filter. You have to educate yourself on what is actually

42:31

You know happening in ukraine and the geopolitics of it and that takes a little bit of work

42:36

And effort and thinking you have to care about it So, I I mean

42:41

I understand not everybody has time to become an expert on these things But yeah, you still that doesn't if you if you don't hear something conclusive

42:52

Then don't form an opinion about it. It's like, uh, I think it was uh murray rothbard

43:00

He he said it's it's okay to not be an expert in economics But it's wrong to pretend like you are

43:08

So Don't pretend like you're an expert on ukraine unless you put the time in right to try to understand it

43:17

Yeah, I think that's fair. No, i've reached it. What's in your shirt, by the way, I love First of all, you're sure has sunflowers on it, which is my wife's favorite type of flower but um, what's

43:26

I see you've got the blue and the yellow colors, but what is that So, uh

43:32

The I actually commissioned this shirt like that's awesome invasion the first month of the invasion

43:38

I hired an artist to draw this And we did a youth camp last summer in the mountains and I gave it away to all of the helpers

43:46

Okay camp. So this is melissa's It's a pray for ukraine and then on the bottom.

43:53

It's uh John knox quote resistance to tyranny is obedience to god, right?

44:00

And I put that in there because Ukrainians, of course, they're like hoorah resist putin

44:08

He's he's tyrannical but I got my little hidden message and i'm basically saying

44:14

If you train gets tyrannical you need to resist them, too Interesting so nice andrew.

44:22

I want to ask you something too And i'll let you jump in here as soon as i'm done and get your thoughts on this But you know you mentioned so you're in utah and you see, you know, you see the ukrainian colors

44:31

And immediately you associate it with somebody in utah who's more liberal leaning more leftist leaning which shows

44:37

The impact of western media and all of even our thinking regarding this conversation I mean some people even might be viewing this on youtube and it's like coltage is talking about ukraine and see those flags, uh, you know the colors of the ukrainian flag and associate us with Being in support of joe biden, right?

44:56

So you like this conversation isn't necessarily about that but just shows the power of undue influence when it talked about media

45:03

In narratives, but I know what do you think about that andrew like with his shirt with jacoby's shirt, which I love the design

45:09

That's that's sweet, man. Um in contrast to the flags. I'll send you one of these. Oh sweet. Thanks, man

45:14

Yeah, um, yeah andrew what comes to mind you see like the difference in media manipulation like in contrast to what he's saying

45:21

Yeah, what I like about what jacoby's saying is that he has an actual absolute standard that's been given to us by god

45:29

Uh, so not only is it pray for ukraine, but it's also if ukraine gets corrupt resist, uh, well if it gets tyrannical resist

45:37

Uh ukraine as well So there's a level -headed approach Within that aspect that people who reject the god of the bible don't have that level -headed approach and they'll

45:46

Usually like you you quote it all the time gk. Chesterton. Uh, jerry I listen to you An open mouth eventually bites down on something, you know, and there's so much virtue signaling so much

45:57

Uh food that is being absorbed by these people in the united states of america So, I mean, it's just an honest observation.

46:03

I don't know anyone one of our listeners. Uh, Say you live in a highly populated area and if you see a ukraine flag

46:11

Tell me if there's other flags in their front yard as well I'm, i'm curiously i'm curious comment.

46:16

Let us know. Uh, but I would say most of the time at least out here It's accompanied by an lgbtq plus flag, uh going back to the media question.

46:25

You're out there in ukraine right now jacoby Uh, what what is is there like a left in a right out there?

46:30

Are there people in ukraine that are supportive of what's going on in russia? Or is this like 99 .97 percent of ukrainians are just against what's uh, the russian in you know invasion?

46:41

What what is it like out there? And what do they think of united states? Uh wow, okay, well, this is my great grief because If you go to parliament like previously it was a lot of pro different parties in parliament

46:57

You have 450 people in ukrainian parliament And i'm i'm just guessing maybe half of them were pro -russian

47:06

And a few kind of minority 20 was kind of communist and then you had more kind of pro -european opposition they were called the opposition parties and uh

47:20

Now this is the first time I think well probably started to kind of morph with under pereshenko

47:27

But under zelensky it's more radical because like over 40 percent is in zelensky's party and then you have

47:36

A couple supporting parties which are around 20 members each and then you have opposition opposition parties and they're also

47:45

Liberal, so basically you have like 40 something vacant seats right now because of the war

47:51

I think but you have uh all Libertarians are not libertarians

47:59

Boom liberals, you have all liberals in ukrainian parliament and one

48:05

Svoboda member which is actually from the city that I currently live in And from just my little bit

48:12

Of reading about her. She seems like a decent person. She tries to do things for the city like community activities and this

48:19

But she's far right considered like, you know svoboda party, which is means freedom

48:26

But in the in the past and euro maidan and stuff this party was associated with far right groups

48:33

So one person out of 450 and the rest are liberals And and then you have the media the largest mainstream media

48:42

So in ukraine the media is owned by oligarchs who are in the past mostly either pro -russian or pro -russian or opposition liberals or soros funded

48:58

Interesting so and at the same time you have among post -soviet eastern bloc countries the largest percentage of evangelicals

49:13

So that some people would call it the bible belt of ukraine, but still it's under five percent

49:19

Of the population. So it's very small and And that is what my actual burden is i'm grieved about it because there's no conservative

49:29

Political commentators even that have like a reach there's no nobody in parliament

49:34

All the pastors I talk to know they don't agree with the liberalism They just trying to pass this gay marriage thing through ukraine during the war like two weeks ago and A whole bunch of people

49:50

I know signed a petition against it. They got enough people To sign the petition and then the court in haig

49:58

The eu court says no, we overrule this petition like are you serious the eu

50:07

That ukraine is not even a member of is imposing its liberal policies on ukraine in a time of war

50:17

When a lot of the men aren't even here they fled the country This is ridiculous like this is the kind of stuff that i'm concerned about like They are taking advantage of this situation to morph ukraine into what they want it to be.

50:34

Yeah Hey everyone, if you are watching us right now on apologia studios youtube channel

50:40

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50:52

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51:00

Which will also help support the studio which will allow cultist to be a possibility as well on a weekly basis

51:06

So we thank you all for watching us and now back to the episode Yeah, no, it's interesting too.

51:12

Like you you see that there's that you have Ukraine's own political system there and then you as a christian you're burdened for This to you know do right and do what is just um

51:23

You think of like micah 5 -2 like you're trying like to live that out to the best of your ability kind of given You know the circumstances that you're in paul

51:31

I'll let you jump in here, too What what could you add in addition to what jacoby says just to help our audience sort of understand?

51:38

How the what the political climate is like in ukraine, but also not just politically but just relationally you have so many people

51:46

Who even in ukraine you probably have a long tenured history of just even friendships with people who are russian and there's probably a distinction between you know, the russian government the russian military versus You know your friend you might go to the pub with or have some vodka with or however, you know

52:03

You guys celebrate together like may bring it help people understand that if you could first of all very well said jacoby, uh the uh, the

52:16

Western left is not ukraine's friend. It's nobody's friend uh everything that the left touches

52:25

Increases in suffering and uh If they can have a greater influence in ukraine, it's going to have a worse influence on ukraine every single time

52:34

Uh, they already tried that by the way, right? That's that's what the soviet union was all about trying to get that. Uh, Marxist ideology out by force because that's the only way you can make it work um

52:48

I've been intentional in trying to follow a Disproportionate amount of russian propaganda during all this

52:55

Uh, so i'm hearing the bad guys more than i'm hearing the people that are like me We we have a tendency to build echo chambers around ourselves.

53:02

I'm trying to fight that uh And uh, the russian propaganda is just lie upon lie upon lie

53:11

We talk about the camera pointing left or right but an honest journalist regardless of his uh interpretation of things will try to Portray the actual interpretation that he holds to Whereas the propaganda machine will try to convince you of something that it doesn't necessarily believe is true, right?

53:28

And there have been uh instances of this time and time again so whenever I uh, look at the situation

53:35

I I try not to just think about uh people groups, but rather ideology and and so frequently the left

53:46

And the russian ideology are sharing common roots

53:53

That are both rooted in uh frankfurt school kind of thought but uh critical theory

54:03

If you're familiar with critical race theory, that would be a development of the critical theory that came out of the frankfurt school

54:09

But so did national socialism uh The nazi party is actually the the result of the frankfurt school just like critical race theory is now they went in slightly different directions uh

54:23

I say slightly because they're both very much obsessed with environmentalism. This is very well documented

54:29

I don't know why we're throwing around the term nazi To mean someone disagrees with me.

54:35

No, right nazi ideology is a very well thought out systematic worldview and it's the worldview that Uh failed in the 40s, so it collapsed and so the philosophers had to do something afterwards so they went in a couple of different directions and um the similarities are are striking so whenever we look at the russian

54:57

You don't necessarily see this on the uh, mainstream russian media if you don't know what to look for but if you look at the actual philosophers or Influence out there they're they're very much basing their way of thinking on several factors, but national socialist thought is

55:15

Something that you cannot reduce from the russian political worldview and still have a functional system we're talking guys like uh, carl schmidt martin haydegger and uh

55:28

Hey dagger is still a really big deal in leftist thought as well, right? Yeah There's there's a difference of course the left is more globalist they want to dissolve borders whereas russia wants to expand borders

55:43

Not to have one government or so they say but to have maybe about a dozen polls around the world but when you really boil it down, they're both anti -nation and if we hold to a

55:56

Uh a biblical worldview, uh, this could be my uh conservative interpretation of genesis shining through I think that god has uh specifically instituted national distinctions as a divine institution from the uh tower of babel

56:14

And this is something that we uh humanity should be trying to preserve is national distinctions

56:23

Both sides are trying to to defeat that And I really hope that ukraine doesn't go into the the globalist side as the the left is clearly trying to pull them into uh

56:32

All that is a roundabout way of getting to the question How do we deal with individuals and relationships?

56:39

That's what I try to take the conversation to I try to take the conversation to worldview And what exactly is driving their their political thought?

56:50

Is their political thought go? Going to be more globalist leftist.

56:57

Is it going to be more? multipolar russian If so, what does the bible say about it briefly to ask that question first?

57:04

You got to ask what does the person actually think about the bible? But assuming we're talking with christians. Let's talk about national distinctions

57:10

What does god say about nations? and I think if we look at what god says about nations and what your

57:16

Media source is saying about nations. They're likely to be at odds Mm -hmm No, that's really good.

57:23

And what about you know, people will say you're talking about like like russian misinformation I think here in the west that's almost a pejorative because you think you know

57:32

We're viewing it through the lens people who are conservative probably view that through The uh, what was it the russia gate or the chase saying that like trump was colluding with russia

57:40

So I think people are almost sort of taking Maybe like the baggage of that whole narrative that was part of western media like back and forth back and forth

57:50

You know, it's just sort of a manufactured conflict in some sense and they're even viewing this, you know current conflict

57:55

Maybe a little bit through that lens, but what about some people would say like even like your vantage point

58:01

How do you know maybe to push back a little bit? How do you know you're not your vantage point hasn't been affected?

58:06

Maybe by propaganda on your end because you're talking about neutrality being a myth, you know Russia's going to have their vantage point, but then you have the ukrainian media like what's what's your how do you decipher through that versus?

58:18

How how do you know you're not a byproduct of misinformation yourself if I could just push back a little bit

58:27

Yeah, that was that was that was to paul But I guess you guys could both go go at that paul first paul first.

58:33

I talked last so When it comes to uh misinformation, uh the

58:42

Points where we are susceptible we all humanity anyone listens to the news The the stuff that would be easy to trick me on is going to be individual events, okay uh so There was a video that was released of a

59:03

Soldier whose body was frozen and dead and chained up to a tree

59:10

Uh -huh So I saw this video from uh multiple sources

59:15

I got it from russian sources saying look the ukrainians are having to chain their own people down to trees

59:22

To prevent them from running away And I saw a ukrainian source saying look this is a russian soldier

59:28

The russians are having to train their to chain their soldiers to trees to prevent them from running away, right?

59:34

Okay So what what exactly happened with that particular individual right and how do we uh, how do we determine

59:42

I would say that we we probably shouldn't build our political worldview

59:48

Our choosing of the good guy and bad guy off of who has the most cases of this tank blown up Or this guy being chained to a tree or this case of uh, someone being beat up in a prison, right?

01:00:03

uh There are going to be instances of bravery and cowardice on both sides instead uh instead of looking at Examples of individual cases of things that are happening in war, which is always ugly by the way

01:00:20

I try to step back and look at the primary sources of the worldview and the political ideology that's pushing the thing through right so in the case of Russia I would turn to Actual russian philosophers like alexander dugan to see what his political ideology is

01:00:42

I would turn to Putin's actual speeches whenever he's describing why they are at war and what their goals are

01:00:50

I would turn to the russian orthodox church's patriarch patriarch girl

01:00:59

Girl who's being fully endorsed by dugan and putin as being the uh, the religion of the slavic world that needs to be

01:01:07

Uh advanced and I would look at him And see how he's saying things like if someone dies in the war, then he has washed away his own sins

01:01:15

Yeah, and I would weigh that against scripture and I would say is this what christianity teaches that we can die for our own? sins and this genocide against ukrainians or is christ the only way of uh

01:01:26

Of salvation if christ is the only way of salvation that I can knock the uh russian orthodox church out of The other boundaries of what is true.

01:01:40

Yeah That's a method I would take okay. No, that's good. I think we'll probably jump into the actual

01:01:47

Uh kind of like the world view especially when it comes to putin russia how that connects to like how he's sort of using

01:01:53

You know his version of spirituality in this case, you know his version of eastern orthodoxy to try and propagate and justify

01:02:00

What's happening over there? So i'm definitely very interested to hear that uh, jacoby. What thoughts do you have on that? How do you know when you're looking at that situation?

01:02:08

I think we even had a back and forth one time on facebook where I shared something And I think I was kind of guilty too sort of knee -jerk reacting

01:02:15

I think all of us have been doing that sort of since 2020. I'm trying to recover and not do that I try and give myself usually a 72 hour rule

01:02:22

You know you think about like when will what is that when will smith slapped chris rock, right? that everyone the next 24 hours on social media were just bananas like you had to like give a whole analysis of You know people writing like short stories of the gospel for will smith giving this whole analysis based off of this one slap

01:02:42

It was it was a it was wild and bonkers. But what about you man? Like how? Like how do you how how how would someone say?

01:02:49

Well, you're knee -jerk reacting like or maybe your vantage point, you know even though you're there and it's obviously scary and you're having like I've never been to a place where another country is invading and you're

01:02:58

Having to exit like out of arizona or to mexico or that was maybe my vantage point But how do you how do you know you're not subject?

01:03:07

To undue influence as well too when it comes to media media manipulation and misinformation. How would you answer that?

01:03:14

Well, first of all after uh, chris rock did his stand -up comedy everyone was like, yeah chris rock, but then

01:03:20

Everyone found out chris rock was on The flight list to effsine island and I was like what?

01:03:28

So I didn't know that anyways, yeah but um About when you asked me about the dia app.

01:03:36

So You had asked me about what about this dia app where? I don't remember what your question was, but this was in like the first or second month of the full -scale invasion

01:03:49

And you were saying what about this app that ukrainians have it's connected to to the world economic forum

01:03:56

And at the time I was consumed with it just trying to help Uh refugees and stuff.

01:04:03

Oh, yeah And actually the question you had asked me had went through my head

01:04:08

And but then I dismissed it thinking uh Ukraine is very technological

01:04:16

They're just making it so you can send bank transactions and stuff But later on when

01:04:22

I had time to look into it more and me as like someone who's against the fed

01:04:28

And cbd sees and understands the value of gold and bitcoin I started thinking this through that this

01:04:37

Equals state overreach or even if even if the current ukrainian government was building this

01:04:44

Highly technological app to incorporate all business transactions and your id and all that and Even if they had the best of intentions in the world

01:04:55

Well, you're just giving all this power over to the state so that future regimes

01:05:01

Can control the population so we should never give State that much power uh for one for two when you realize how many ties there are to um

01:05:14

Samantha powers of the u .s. Aid they sent $650 ,000 for the development of this app.

01:05:20

You're kind of like wait a second. Why is the I understand you us is sending humanitarian aid and they're sending money for uh weapons or they're actually sending literal weapons that they overcharged for but Why are they sending money for this app development?

01:05:41

That they're going to test in other countries. So then I started just getting very suspect of it and but to come back to your question about How do we know if we're being influenced by propaganda?

01:05:55

I would say to a certain degree all of us are all the time. All of us are being influenced by information.

01:06:02

Yeah And all Always perfectly self -aware

01:06:09

And we that's what I think that's kind of the first step And getting closer to truth is realizing

01:06:15

I am susceptible to being deceived and being and deceiving myself Because my heart wants to believe certain things my heart wants to feel good and I have attachments

01:06:25

Certain belief systems, you know, this goes for theology this goes for for media narratives it goes for what you know about the people in your life your wife or your

01:06:38

The people you're close to your children. You're you're always learning new things that don't feel good

01:06:45

Yeah, so I think you're you know, it comes down to self -awareness It comes down to having a sincere desire

01:06:52

To ask hard questions and want to know the truth. It comes down to understanding how logic works and how evidence works like a journalist or or a detective would look for hard evidence, you know, like Is this really?

01:07:10

Uh conclusive right You know, or is this just a possibility?

01:07:16

And I some what I see people doing all the time on the internet is they take something

01:07:22

That is a possibility and they jump to conclusions And then all of a sudden

01:07:29

Like like I know that zelensky's talking to black rock. He's talking to city bank. He's talking to vanguard.

01:07:35

He's talking to IMF he's talking to the world economic forum and justin trudeau. I don't trust any of these people

01:07:43

But I can't connect that dot and say Zelensky's a satanist like it's bizarre, you know, like I mean i'm not saying those people are satanists

01:07:54

Maybe some of them are but my point is that people jump to these conclusions that are extreme

01:08:01

Without having actual evidence, right? So as christians the bible says love always believes the best and At the same time it says, you know uh

01:08:13

To be shrewd to be wise, right? so We're not naive. We're not just trusting blindly

01:08:20

So it's kind of like i'm going to give zelensky the benefit of the doubt But i'm sleeping with one eye open and i'm watching not what you say, but what you do, right?

01:08:29

No, that's good. There's a uh, go ahead. Go ahead paul There's a sin that the bible speaks out against pride

01:08:37

And I think that this is a sin that will make you susceptible to uh, to being misled

01:08:45

Uh because if you're proud then you are uh

01:08:51

Struggling with something that might cause you to connect dots that might not necessarily need to be connected

01:08:57

This is something that russian propaganda will do sometimes. So Uh the past week we had a thing come out

01:09:04

There was a video of a mexican cartel member and he was carrying an at4

01:09:10

Which is an anti -tank weapon big right one shot They're really cool whenever they go off.

01:09:16

I'm an old veteran. So oh, yeah explosions, right um so the uh, one of the russian propaganda, uh sources that I follow a mainstream one from russia

01:09:29

This particular channel was an english -speaking one and it said that um

01:09:37

A couple of things it said a video has been released of a mexican cartel member

01:09:43

Carrying a javelin missile uh Javelin missiles, uh, or the united states has been sending a lot of javelin missiles to america to ukraine

01:09:53

They quoted all the numbers. I don't doubt the numbers. They spent this much money Uh spending javelin javelins over no reason to question that Uh, it clearly is a video.

01:10:05

I have no reason to doubt that that's a mexican cartel member Remember they did note that uh

01:10:12

There's a dispute as to whether this is a javelin or an at4 And if you know what the difference is you can tell very easily that it's an at4, right?

01:10:20

um And they they put that out there, right? So What they are trying the dots they want you to connect are that oh

01:10:28

America is spending all of our tax money on javelins to send to ukraine ukraine is corrupt

01:10:34

Another point they put in there ukraine has struggled with corruption Uh, therefore corrupt ukrainians are taking our

01:10:44

Our javelins or at4s. That's the fight. They want you to have arguing about whether it's a javelin or at4 Either way, they're sending this thing to mexican cartels, which they're using against us

01:10:54

Apparently that's the jump that they want you to make right? Javelin at4 thing is kind of a red herring

01:11:01

And if you're pride if you think I know it all I I can see through You know global politics then you're susceptible to that however

01:11:10

It's also true that colombia is a very corrupt country as is venezuela, right?

01:11:18

It's also true that these are spanish -speaking countries. It's true. That's the cartel stuff through these countries already

01:11:26

It's true that the mexican cartel doesn't typically speak ukrainian So we can ask the question then what's more likely is it coming from ukraine or is it coming from south america

01:11:38

Yeah, all of a sudden the russian propaganda starts to fall apart, right? So Often we have this this this thing right?

01:11:44

We're trying to make us connect dots that shouldn't be connected and if we aren't uh

01:11:53

Renewing our minds we can send our ways into being stupid and falling for that stuff, right?

01:11:58

Yeah, because then all of a sudden you'll then you'll have trump who will be like Oh, well, if I if I had built the wall, I would have stopped those missiles

01:12:05

None of them I would have stopped those missiles in 24 hours.

01:12:10

Yeah, uh, Andrew, do you ever you do the accent better than I do? Oh, yeah, so something i've been working on a little bit

01:12:17

I'll stop all the missiles just build some patriot missiles silos alongside the wall. It'll stop all the all the missiles south of the border

01:12:25

Um I think trump did a lot of good by the way, I actually voted for him in the the re -election and i'm not

01:12:33

He's no angel. He's he's made all sorts of errors 2020 I think he absolutely betrayed the country by handing it over to fauci

01:12:43

Do you think it would have made any difference it was way better than yeah Way better than hillary. Well, I totally voted for him the the second time around.

01:12:51

I didn't vote from the first time Certain people there in the offices, I think i'm just guessing

01:12:57

But like jared kuchner his son -in -law and others I just don't think they he knew who they were

01:13:04

Associated with so it could be it could be. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean Let me ask you this andrew

01:13:10

Do you have actually do you have any thoughts real quick andrew but we're kind of getting towards the end of part one here But what if yeah any thoughts with regards to either one anything so far or what are your thoughts?

01:13:19

Yeah, I think what paul was saying, uh much earlier was really wise it struck me I thought it was something that many people who are presuppositional would probably try to tend to do but maybe don't do it when they're receiving information

01:13:30

Uh is to look at the source from which from which it's coming Uh in terms of the world view from which this information is coming from Uh, and again,

01:13:39

I just want to echo proverbs 26 12 says do you see a person wise in their own eyes? There's more hopeful.

01:13:45

There's more hope for a fool than for them than isaiah 5 21 also echoes Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and shrewd in their own sight like the bible warns about it

01:13:54

All the time but one way Which I really like that you guys were talking about to analyze what is propaganda or misinformation that we're receiving is well

01:14:01

What is the source from which this information is coming from and also not living in an echo chamber? to very to see whether or not you're holding on to some types of Information that is misinformation in general, but one question

01:14:14

I have before we And is like in this world that we live in Uh, it's like the united states is a corrupt government

01:14:20

You know what? I mean like ukraine has a corrupt government Uh, russia has a corrupt government like psalm 2 the lord the people of the world set themselves up against the lord and his anointed

01:14:29

But the lord will crush them. We know that like a pot shirt. So how do we trust any of it? You know what?

01:14:34

I mean? Like what are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to uh way through? that muck and mire

01:14:40

Uh, because i'm thinking even for our listeners Maybe they might be listening just like me and go like well, then how am

01:14:45

I supposed to rightly be able to discern? Uh in this world that i'm living in if there's not one

01:14:51

Basic worldview from these countries in the world that are founded and root upon rooted upon the word of god

01:14:58

I know we would say the founding of our country Yes, but where we're living at now in the united states of america is not the same as the way it was founded

01:15:05

So how how can we navigate that? Uh paul you first Okay Uh, that's a good question and it's difficult question.

01:15:16

Um, One of my uh, my bible life hacks. Is that a thing? Uh looking at political aspects of worldview

01:15:26

Is I like to look at divine institutions Institutions that god has put out for the good of humanity believer and unbeliever alike uh and I want a political system that protects these divine institutions uh

01:15:45

What are the divine institutions? Well, if we go through uh, genesis 1 through 11, which

01:15:53

I take genesis 1 through 11 Literally and even if you don't I think you can probably uh, Come to similar conclusions that we should protect these ideas so when we look at the uh, the garden of eden, this is the uh,

01:16:08

The ideal state if you will before sin god creates everything he calls it good So this is what god says is good.

01:16:15

We have man who is put in the garden to work the garden and he has the Tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil

01:16:21

He's told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the day that he does it he will die so We see a man being held accountable for his own individual actions and we see man working and being productive

01:16:34

So from this we can derive the concept of a divine institution if you will of uh, responsible labor

01:16:44

Then god creates woman eve gives her to the man and that is the first marriage.

01:16:50

Uh then it says the That uh woman should leave her parents leave to her husband and the two shall be one flesh so we get the concept of marriage from the

01:17:03

Pre -fall state so marriage is also divine institution. Well, what do you get when you combine marriage and responsible labor marriage including the

01:17:11

Be fruitful multiply. Well, you get family So family is a responsible is a divine institution.

01:17:20

These are the three institutions that we have prior to sin entering the world uh responsible labor marriage and family

01:17:28

These are the three institutions that the left is the most obsessed with conquering They want to take apart responsible labor labor through uh economic theories of marxism trying to distribute wealth equitably

01:17:43

No, no, no, no That's trying to remove the responsible part away from labor They want to redefine marriage to be not just one man one woman.

01:17:54

They want to redefine family after the fall we get to The uh pre -flood state which is increasingly wicked because everyone's following what is right in their their own eyes

01:18:04

Right after the treat they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they had conscience So we can call that sort of a dispensation of of conscience

01:18:12

That goes badly. Uh Which is interesting because a lot of people try to tell you to die.

01:18:17

Just do what's right for you I'll do what's right for me uh, so god has to destroy the whole world because of that and After noah gets off the ark, what do we get but the noah covenant where god institutes civil government

01:18:34

Saying that uh, if a man says that the man's blood that his blood should be spilled thus putting man at a position of holding other men accountable this is where we can get the concept of civil government of men ruling over each other civil government is a

01:18:50

Divine institution then we go a little bit further and we get into the tower of babel incident where god

01:18:56

Uh disperses the nations by confusing their languages

01:19:02

So we get national distinctions and these divine institutions are spoken about throughout the rest of the bible

01:19:07

Well, you get national distinctions as well as civil governments. That's where we get the idea of countries with functioning governments for the purpose of uh restricting uh evil

01:19:17

Do the best that they can uh, we still have other elements at play So whenever I want to evaluate a political world view

01:19:27

If I want to look at a presidential candidate if I want to look at a someone who's running for this office or that If someone's offering a political ideology, that's what

01:19:37

I look for Are they protecting responsible labor? family and Marriage or are they attacking those?

01:19:47

And do they want to maintain national distinctions with functioning governments within? Or are they trying to dissolve borders on the one hand globalism or are they trying to expand extend their borders like russia is uh, as long as you can keep those groups of divine institutions straight uh, you'll have uh plenty to to talk about and uh, you'll have appropriate values for Political conversations and there's more we could talk about abortion.

01:20:19

For example that that's yeah evil beyond beyond imagination That's kind of what

01:20:24

I look forward to In other words just by this standard. We gotta judge all things by by the word of god god's law

01:20:31

Right exactly exactly. So that that's the ultimate lens then for your perspective Even with in in spite with all the the fog of war all the different media manipulation at the end of the day

01:20:41

Its question is by what standard how are you utilizing? How are you looking at information? Are you using independent lines of testimony and witness?

01:20:49

Um to understand that so why don't we do this we've gone Uh, we've gotten just so fascinating. I feel like we've barely even scratched the surface and there's so many layers to this my goodness

01:20:59

What we're going to do is that in part two? We are going to be talking about what I think is going to be very fascinating We're going to be talking about like where how does russia fit into this?

01:21:09

Uh also, uh, vladimir putin like who he is He's sort of become a cult of personality even before this whole conflict.

01:21:15

I would love to get your perspective on that but also his role, uh in contrast to how he's using the eastern orthodox church to propagate uh, what from your perspective his uh worldview in this whole conflict which is uh, some people things that i've just noticed in the

01:21:30

That really hasn't been discussed when it comes to the lens of uh, you know, western media, which i'm very fascinated about So, uh, all that being said we're gonna go wrap up in part

01:21:38

Uh this first part of it and so if you enjoy this definitely let us know Uh what you thought comment on our social media.

01:21:44

We know a lot of you are very interested in listening to this episode All that being said we'll talk to you in part two in this very fascinating conversation talking about the uh complicated