March 16, 2022 Show with Ryan Denton on “Augustine the Evangelist”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:04

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown,

00:11

Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

00:23

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

00:30

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

00:38

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

00:46

To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

00:54

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host

00:59

Chris Arnzen Good afternoon,

01:10

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at Iron sharpens iron radio .com.

01:20

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 16th day of March 2022

01:28

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a guest that we have interviewed before and even as recently as last week

01:36

But today we are going to be interviewing Ryan Denton on a different book that he has written

01:44

He was a pastor of the Navajo Reservation before starting Christ in the wild ministries which he has directed since 2016 a church planter and an evangelist in Texas and the author of several books.

01:58

We are going to be a dust Discussing his latest book today Augustin the evangelist the zeal hope and methodology of the

02:07

Bishop of Hippo and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back again to iron sharpens iron radio

02:14

Ryan Denton And if you could let our listeners know something about Christ in the wild ministries

02:29

Reservation Back in 2016 and Doing a lot of evangelism ministry out there and our church

02:45

To do that same type of ministry and then and currently we just moved to Lubbock, Texas last

02:51

It seems like last month, but it was December And here we are planning a church in Lubbock and a church in Clovis, New Mexico So both of those are doing very well right now, but and so, you know churches to do it till we quit churches to better do that and the website address is

03:31

Christ in the wild calm Christ in the wild calm for more information and Augustin is someone who is considered at least by His proponents his fans for lack of a better term

03:50

He is considered one of the greatest minds in the history of Christendom And those that either are opposed to the the usage of Augustin's theology teachings and writings are when they're coming from a

04:14

Protestant or fundamentalist or Evangelical standpoint they are typically speaking in total ignorance they

04:25

Think that Augustin because he is a hero of Roman Catholics Who also misunderstand him and wrongly attribute to him?

04:35

Beliefs teachings and practices that he never even dreamed of So are those in the

04:42

Protestant realm who are opposed to him ignorant of the true Augustin because of the fact that they

04:49

Have an erroneous understanding that he is just as the Roman Catholic adherence of Augustin they think that the

04:58

Catholics are right they think that he is a Roman Catholic theologian and didn't

05:05

Augustin Live in a day before there was actually a Roman Catholic Church yeah, and I think part of the other problem is that a lot of the

05:16

Non -reformed Calvinistic wing of the church sees in Augustin somebody who brought in the doctrine of predestination and things like that and so Yeah from from both from both corners really he he is mischaracterized and Certainly abused yeah so tell us about Augustin of Hippo give us some background information especially for the sake of those that are completely ignorant of him

05:47

Or only have a basic knowledge of him that may be false Okay, yeah, well let me let me start out by saying the the influence of Augustin Just in general is immense You can find a list in The book on just the different figures that that were influenced by Luther excuse me

06:09

Augustin Luther is one of them Freud Aquinas Anselm Pascal Kierkegaard Nietzsche Wittgenstein Just to name a few were influenced by his writings the

06:21

Emperor Charlemagne used to sleep with a copy of Augustine City of God beneath his pillow at night

06:28

And so that's just you know that would be outside aside from Luther That's going to be guys who are who are typically considered outside the the realm of your your mainstream

06:38

Orthodox tradition, but even when it came to the

06:44

Puritans and the Reformers You know William Perkins he had the book called the art of prophesying and he acknowledges that that book was heavily influenced by Augustin's own

06:54

Book called on Christian doctrine, which is similar the sense of it deals with homiletics and things like that And then of course

07:01

John Calvin, I think the Institute's Augustin is quoted more than anybody else with the exception of maybe

07:08

Bernard of Clairvaux So Augustin has a huge influence on Calvin you have

07:15

John Knox that he said his favorite church fathers were Augustin and Chrysostom and so The Puritans according to Perry Miller who was a you know a

07:26

Historian about the Puritans. He said that Augustin was actually more popular amongst the the people living in the 1600s than even the

07:36

Reformers so so he's just had a monumental impact on the tradition of Christianity that's far more

07:46

Did just let's say in the Roman Catholic realm or I would even say or or than just the

07:52

The more reformed Calvinistic wing of Christianity. I mean this is he's he's monumental

07:59

He was he had a big influence in his own day. So a lot of times, you know people Aren't really recognized or noticed until after they died

08:07

With Augustin that wasn't quite the case because of the way he was converted.

08:13

He was converted at 31 And so he was a little older in life, but when he was converted he held what would

08:23

Be considered for us to be something like the Dean of you know What are the most prestigious universities in the world?

08:30

So maybe a Cambridge or or Oxford or something like that. And so he was he was an academic and He was certainly not a

08:40

Christian. His mom was a Christian when he was growing up. His dad was a pagan and so He wrestled with with different philosophies and worldviews and then eventually the

08:53

Lord saved him at 31 and and when he did save Augustin, I mean it was it was

09:00

Lights out to his whole past and the whole life that he lived, you know, so he he he quit the

09:09

Academic stuff in part because he had to by virtue of the fact that he became a

09:14

Christian but he went back to Africa and he wanted to spend his life as a monk and Just kind of just kind of study books and read and talk about him and things like that Well, and this is something

09:29

I write about in the book What compels him out of that though is a few different circumstances, you know, it's never black and white but one of the the main thrust was the fact that he

09:41

He wanted to go in evangelize men he wanted to go and see people rescued from the the jaws of paganism and false religion and things like that and so eventually he goes and becomes a bishop and He he

10:01

Has a monastery there and that monastery it was not the type That's kind of like tucked away in the desert somewhere where they just pray and and and fast and things like that Although they were praying and fasting one of the main things that they were doing is that it was a training ground to supply church plants with with ministers and so Everything he did was was

10:23

Evangelistic and that's something that that caught my attention when I started writing this book is I've always been a fan of Augustin But when you read through the the things that have been written about Augustin, it's usually through the lens of looking at his

10:37

Theological prowess which is true. There's no doubt about that or his Whereas philosophical achievements which are that's that's true.

10:46

He has plenty of those but when I was reading it and and I was trying not to be biased being an evangelist and Missionary myself, but I'm I was seeing somebody who is very clearly

11:00

Engaged and passionate even in his pulpit preaching about communicating the gospel to people who are lost and I that's that is a realm that in My experience anyways, as far as my knowledge goes that has been really almost completely untouched.

11:16

And so I started writing this book in a THM class at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary has taken a class with Dr.

11:25

Bandu to ward Yes, he's been on the program Okay. Yeah, so yeah, he's a great guy.

11:31

Yeah, the assignment was like a 40 page paper on something about Augustin and so I started writing this paper and it ballooned to like 75 pages very quickly and You know, dr.

11:46

Bandu was very gracious. I reached out to him and said, you know, I have a little bit of a problem here and He said well, you know, you still need to cut that back which was expected

11:57

But he said I would I would love to read what you have and offer some Suggestions or whatever direction you want to take it, you know to help you with that And so that's where it started and now it's you know

12:09

I think it turned out like 150 pages when it was all said and done but there's there's still so much to be done on this on this one topic and so I just kind of wanted to start get the ball rolling and And let some of the some of the heavy -duty scholars and academic types take over and see, you know

12:28

How to move move the ball down the field a little with this now obviously there has been debate between Roman Catholics and evangelicals

12:42

Particularly Reformed evangelicals who openly and enthusiastically Welcome Augustine as one of our heroes

12:52

There has been debate and disagreement vociferous disagreement Dating back to the

12:59

Reformation itself as to whether Augustine truly believed in the same gospel as the

13:09

Reformers and although Luther Loved Augustine as well.

13:16

I'm particularly speaking of our of our Calvinistic Reformers including Calvin The the

13:25

Roman Catholic would say that we are either totally ignorant of History and Augustine in particular or we are lying one of the other to dare to say that Augustine's understanding of unconditional election and God's sovereignty and salvation and the gospel itself

13:48

Were that these teachings were the same in Augustine's heart and mind as they were in Calvin's heart and mind and his heirs in the

13:58

Reformed faith So why don't you set the record straight as far as you understand it? Well, and so, you know,

14:06

I think it's unfair when we when we're overly critical of someone who lived

14:12

In his case, what is that 1 ,500 years ago and it's certainly not to justify Augustine's mistakes because he certainly even when it comes to evangelism in the book.

14:22

I talk especially about the over emphasis and reliance at times on miracles that you can find in his work and and also even with certain elements of coercion state coercion against Dissenting views on on the gospel

14:43

And especially that ladder has been mischaracterized also but anyway, so You know, it's

14:49

I think BB Warfield said that the Reformation itself was a battle between Augustine's doctrine of the church meaning the

14:59

Roman Catholics view and the doctrine of Augustine's doctrine of justification

15:05

Which would be more in line with the Protestant? Reformation view and so I think that's probably the best summary that you can find because there is a there is an element of You know an emphasis on on on sacraments and even

15:23

Baptismal regeneration type of stuff you can see that even in Augustine's confessions So it's not to say that he was perfect However, it is like you're saying when it comes to the elements of the gospel

15:35

There's no doubt that he is he is certainly more in line with the Protestant Reformation than he is with Rome Yes, those are head -scratching oxymoronic things that we find in some of our heroes in Augustine and Luther in particular

15:58

Luther believed in all five solos of the Reformation Which he didn't coin those all of those battle cries, but they're found within his

16:10

Various writings, but he agreed with all of them. He agreed. I mean he championed solo fide and solo gratia and yet continued to believe in baptismal regeneration, which seems to be at the antithesis of The solo fide and solo gratia and that would

16:28

I would include Augustine in that And it's easy again for us to sit, you know, 1 ,500 years removed and we've already had numerous, you know the

16:37

Nicene Council and we've had We've had numerous debates and treatises and systematic theology books that have already been written before we are even born that That have really hashed this issue out

16:51

And so, you know in Augustine's day and even in Luther's day They are still wrestling with some of this information and trying to try to Figure out what exactly is going on there.

17:03

And so I The first time I well, not the first time I preached in my life back, you know 10 or 11 years ago.

17:12

I was 20 27 and and I was not in Augustinian.

17:18

I mean I'd read the confessions by then and I probably I wasn't even a

17:25

Calvinist per se. Although, you know, the doctors were certainly there But I preached a sermon at a little

17:31

Baptist Church in New Mexico and after the sermon There was a man that they called on to pray to close the service they called on him to pray and he stood up and started praying and You know,

17:45

I'm not I'm not exaggerating when I say it was about a 15 minute prayer, but it was a it was a sermonette on the reason why

17:56

So so he was praying like Lord protect Ryan because he's clearly a

18:02

Calvinist and he's an Augustinian and you know It got stood in these in Calvin and these guys have had such a horrendous

18:10

Negative impact on so many people and on the church and all these things and I'm I'm thinking man

18:16

I don't even know what he's talking about, you know but then I found out he was a church history professor at a very

18:26

Arminian school in that area. So You know, the thing is my point is is that it's it's easy for let's say any of us to be very one -sided about this

18:37

And it just kind of throw everything out. That was meaningful at all about about Augustin Whereas if we if we actually go down that route

18:47

Then we're going to have to throw everybody out in the history of the church because there was never a single person

18:53

Whose doctrine was was perfect in every area and so I'm saying that not to excuse

18:59

Augustin, but to rather look at it in light of our own sanctification

19:05

Augustin's own sanctification and and also the testimony that we have of Just in between Augusta's lifetime and ours just the amount of people like Luther's like a gut

19:18

Excuse me Like Calvin like the Puritans William Perkins these other guys who clearly saw something beneficial

19:24

About a gut and I would say I would actually argue and in the book I do argue that if it wasn't for Augustin the missionary mindset of a gush of Augustin the the

19:34

Influence of Augustin the desire of Augustin to permeate the world with the gospel that is going to be

19:44

Directly it's going to be picked up by by Luther and by Calvin and by Knox and all the

19:49

Reformers That's exactly what they're doing So they're taking Augustin's program and they're applying it to their own day and that in my mind

19:57

It's one of the main catalysts for the for the spread of the gospel and and I'm arguing that because of how influenced they were by So whether or not they knew that it was happening and to sum up one of the vital points of what you are saying

20:14

People should never Be guilty of bearing false witness

20:21

Against anyone including those who have been deceased for many centuries like Augustin and therefore

20:31

The Roman Catholics must be very careful not to lie about Augustin or repeat falsehoods out of ignorance

20:43

That that would be included in their many comments, especially comments by people who should know better like trained apologists who regurgitate over and over again the unanimous consent of the fathers and try to Make the claim as that the the church fathers

21:07

Unanimously agreed with Trent's dogmas that they defined

21:15

And some of those dogmas that were defined at Trent And even dogmas that were defined later even in the 20th century

21:25

One of which was defined in the 20th century None of those things were even a

21:33

Thought in the imagination of the earlier church fathers including Augustine and I'm not of course not speaking about every single

21:41

Dogma, but I'm saying many of those things especially those in regarding Mary and some of the sacraments and so on and the view of the

21:56

Transubstantiation of the mass and things like that many of those things just nowhere to be found in the patristic evidence.

22:02

Am I right? Difficulty Augustine The difficulty with Augustine and with with with any of the patristic writers there

22:14

They they are just like any of us. They're in the process of Growing and their views on certain things changed and so for instance when when

22:23

Rome wants to claim a Certain father and what they said about a certain topic and they said we'll see so -and -so said that over here therefore it substantiates what what our what our dogmas are the problem with that is that That person that they're quoting.

22:39

Let's say Augustine for instance he might have had that view early on and that his mind changes later on and And so they're still using a certain view on that and so The problem with that is of course, they're viewing these these guys as having as much authority as Scripture itself and so Yeah, they're the abuse on Again, I would say the abuse on both sides whether it's more of your fundamental

23:05

Armenian type or whether it is the Roman Catholic when they're when they're using

23:10

Augustine to When they're manipulating Augustine ultimately to justify a certain narrative or a certain purpose that they have in mind

23:21

Like for instance to discredit Predestination they'll say well, we'll look at Augustine, you know, he's he's he's a proving state coercion or look at Augustine He's a

23:32

Roman Catholic and he believes in predestination. You know, that's that's Why that's not even close to the full picture

23:38

And so the same thing happens with the Roman Catholics and of course we as Protestant reform

23:43

Protestants we need to Be careful that we don't do that either. So and that's you know again with this book

23:50

There are areas that I certainly am critical about when it comes to Augustine and I've mentioned two of them already

23:58

But even even certain Aspects of his preaching it can kind of carry into more of a works based

24:06

Type of framework, but it's always It's it's the majority of the sermons that I've read anyways, and you know, the other thing about Augustine is

24:19

Let me let me let me share this quote so It's estimated. He wrote 5 .4

24:25

million words during his ministry And so there was a medieval monk who said that he who says he has read all of Augustine lies

24:34

Speaking of Augustine's works one of so is he had a contemporary biographer Obsidians who said that scarcely any student would be able to read and know all of his works

24:45

So, you know, there is that caveat as well, but it's just to say that that The majority of his sermons do not come across as workspace.

24:55

They don't in my estimation, you know, it kind of depends on the contact and the situation that he's preaching into but He is without a doubt an evangelistic missionary type of pastor he was a pastor and They're doing a lot of stuff

25:12

I mean this guy had a lot on his plate and and his wife was committed to the church It really was and not the

25:19

Roman Catholic Church, you know that the actual true Universal Church and when you read his works, and I hope when you read this book, you'll definitely come through Despite the works in the black eyes that you'll occasionally have with him

25:34

Well, we have to go to our first station break if you have a question for Ryan Denton on Augustin, please.

25:44

Send us an email the Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris a RN z n at gmail .com

25:51

Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence If you live outside the

25:56

USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away

26:02

We'll be right back with Ryan Denton and more of our discussion on Augustin right after these messages

26:12

I was looking for a magazine That would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school

26:20

Had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves

26:26

Or I could walk them through there's tiered Content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger section and it's even more simple

26:37

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled ignited by the word

26:42

Which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God?

26:49

order ignited by the word for your home today at Ignited by the word org learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands

27:18

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

27:24

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or Switching to the

27:37

NASB. I'm dr. Joseph Piper president and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor's, South Carolina and The NASB is my

27:51

Bible of choice I'm pastor. Chuck. Why did the first Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York and in ASB is my

27:59

Bible of choice I'm pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and the

28:05

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor. Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada And the

28:13

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York And the

28:22

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas and the

28:30

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York And the

28:38

NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep

28:44

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

28:50

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Go to NASBible .com

29:02

That's NASBible .com to place your order Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the

29:14

Shoals Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world

29:24

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups

29:36

With a name to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel It is a blessing to see how

29:43

God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally

29:51

To find out more about this vital work worldwide visit anchored in truth dot o -r -g

30:08

I'm Dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

30:19

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim

30:44

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have for more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church Go to Hope Reform Li .net

31:07

That's Hope Reformed Li .net or call 631 696 5711 that's 631 696 5711

31:21

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron Welcome back, this is

31:33

Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in our guest today is Ryan Denton and we are discussing his new book

31:40

Augustine the Evangelist the zeal hope and methodology of the bishop of Hippo and we do have a listener who has a question for you, and you've already addressed some of What he is

31:55

Asking about but I'll have you Reply to it nonetheless and because it's not everything he's asking is

32:07

Something that you've addressed and this happens to be a pastor who I highly regard

32:14

Pastor Gary George and after you finish Responding to my friend

32:20

Pastor Gary. I will provide Gary's contact information his website and so on because he

32:27

Happens to be a pastor that I want people to Know about I want people to visit his church and so on if they live in his area.

32:38

I always try to Do that as much as possible as far as spreading the word about good churches on my show

32:46

He's the pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts But he says am

32:53

I correct that Augustine believed in the necessity of water baptism for salvation Particularly for infants that they couldn't go to heaven apart from being baptized and if they weren't they would go into limbo

33:06

Something that made maybe he first posed How and his second question is how did his position on baptism?

33:14

Correlate with his teaching on justification by faith and predestination So I guess really the the only question the only issue that you haven't addressed to my knowledge on the show is the limbo issue

33:26

And I have no recollection of coming across limbo either in Augustine or in the

33:34

Stuff that I've read about Augustine. Maybe it was a party game that he enjoyed

33:42

You know as far as the infant baptism goes though, yeah, I mean there was an element of that in The the way that they would

33:51

Correlate as far as how justification by faith alone It's it's in a sense

33:59

When you have somebody let's say an infant who is baptized I You know, it's not to say that they can't fall away from that.

34:11

I guess and in I Agree, there's inconsistencies on this.

34:17

So it's you know, I can't really take a stand for example Augustine in this area anyways because I too agree that that that's inconsistent, so But as far as the limbo part,

34:31

I'm not I'm not sure and I've not come across that Well, thank you Gary and I want our listeners to know that your website for Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts Is sovereign grace ma the abbreviation for Massachusetts org?

34:47

Sovereign grace ma org. Thanks a lot Gary. And by the way you have won a free copy of August in the evangelist and We are going to have

34:58

CV BBS. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship that out to you and this is compliments of the greater heritage publishing and also

35:08

CV BBS who are Picking up the postage fee to ship it out to you

35:15

So, thank you so much Pastor Gary and by the way, I want to read before we continue

35:21

I want to read a couple of very powerful endorsements for this book

35:28

William Van Dood Ward who? Has been a guest on this program He is professor at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan He says this is a great story of a man with an evangelical heart in action, but even more marvelously

35:47

It is a narrative of our Lord Jesus Christ saving and sanctifying a sinner from another time and culture to become an instrument for the salvation and sanctification of many others and Rob Ventura another guest that I have interviewed on this program in the past He says educational and exciting this volume motivates us to follow in the footsteps of this great theologian

36:13

Who earnestly preached Christ to the lost? I highly encourage everyone to take up and read this book and obviously

36:22

Rob is referring to the story of how Augustine actually Got saved by the grace of God when he heard

36:31

Children chanting in Latin tole legay or am I mispronouncing that Latin phrase?

36:36

No, that's right and which means take up and read and it seems to be confusing as far as the historian accounts of that Whether he was actually hearing literal children

36:52

Chanting that while they were playing or if it was some kind of a supernatural thing. What is your take on that?

36:58

Well, Augustine says it was a child were you know a kid so I he said that In his confessions, and so I kind of take it to mean that it was a child now, obviously

37:12

God certainly Used that situation and used the voice of that child to move

37:20

Augustine to take up essentially the scriptures and read that passage in Romans that that eventually ultimately saved him but you know,

37:31

I always I always think about how how How neat it is that in our in our everyday?

37:38

Existence we are impacting other people and perhaps to their salvation in ways that we don't even know about You know to that girl

37:46

Who said those words has no idea and I'm assuming had no idea the impact that she would have on church history and on the entire

37:54

Western civilization just by being outside and playing and in Augusta said that they were playing some game

38:02

That that had that phrase in there. So she said that and blurted it out and he saw that as a you know

38:08

Providentially a sign from God to go and do that with the with the gospel or with the epistles that he had in his house

38:14

So it's kind of neat, you know the whole story, but it's certainly God's providential hand on the situation.

38:21

I don't I don't think it was a voice That wasn't real though personally By the way, folks.

38:28

I just wanted to let you know if you live in the Providence, Rhode Island area the man whose

38:37

Commendation I just read Robert Rob Ventura he is pastor at Grace Community Baptist Church in North Providence, Rhode Island and I strongly urge you to visit his church if you live in that area

38:51

Especially if you do not have a biblically sound church of your own by the way

38:58

Ryan, please Stick to this phone that you're using a yellow neon

39:06

Sticker that says use this phone for Chris Arnson's interviews because it is infinitely superior to the first one

39:13

You're using Okay Yes, I have no idea why it is infinitely superior

39:21

I Thanks for calling back in to the studio on that phone

39:32

You titled the book as we've been repeating Augustin the evangelist now could this

39:38

Selection of a title not only be because you're focusing on that aspect of him But because when people think of a great mind like that when they think of a theologian like that They typically may think erroneously and perhaps it's not always wrong that they think this way or incorrect, but but they may draw the conclusion when somebody is a giant of intellect who is beloved by the majority of Academia and Christendom as one of the of the greatest minds that ever lived in regard to The Christian faith they may think this man was just locked in a study and just writing and writing and writing and Evangelism wasn't even a part of his life

40:26

They may wrongly conclude but is that one of the reasons that you wanted to focus on this? Yeah, absolutely

40:32

There's a you know, and ironically When people speak of Augustin the evangelist there was actually an early church history

40:40

There was there there was an Augustin who is typically described as Augustin the evangelist he was he was from Canterbury, England though, he died in 604 and and and he saw just enormous amounts of Converts and in present -day

40:56

England back in the 6th century and so Usually when we do speak of Augustin the evangelist, it's not it's not the one from Hippo It's the one from Canterbury and and so that was that's part of it

41:09

But you know if you think and that's if you think of Augustin, you know If you were just to poll people and say what's the first thing that comes to your mind when when you when you think of Augustin?

41:19

of Hippo Immediately you're thinking exactly in terms that you just said towering intellect

41:26

You know, he was perhaps instrumental in the Reformation or for the Reformers or for the

41:32

Roman Catholics kind of whichever side you're thinking or you know, the the coercion stuff or The the sacramental the sacramentology stuff like that So but I've told you in my in my mind

41:46

Anyways, when you read Augustin and you see and not just Augustin, but even the biographies There's there's a lot of good biographies written about Augustin.

41:54

They don't mention him as an as an evangelist They don't mission mention him as a missionary, but when you start reading him

42:02

And and again, I've I'm trying to see I'm trying to see him through a lens that that's not biased, you know

42:10

But I cannot help but to see this this guy who is just entirely entirely absorbed in the work of Ministry when

42:20

I say ministry for him in that context He one of the things I thought of this too when Pastor Gary and Massachusetts and in Robin Turin in Rhode Island You know the thing that First attracted me to Augustin and how he approached evangelism was that he the culture

42:39

He was living in is very much similar to our culture. Certainly more so than I would say like in the

42:44

Reformers day Augustin lived in a day when even though on paper the

42:50

Roman Empire Might have been Christianized the fact that the majority of people were not

42:57

Christians and even in his church The the majority of people who would be in Augustin's congregation were still very much hung up in on on pagan rituals and Certain elements of mysticism and things that we would call like New Age And so at any given point anytime he's doing ministry.

43:18

He's engaging with people who are either They're either lost or they're they're hung up in If they are saved, you know, it's a very low -level

43:30

Spiritual ebb that he's seeing and so That's the thing when he approaches the loss and and let me give you this quote that he says and this is this is something

43:42

That any anybody in ministry or any even if you're not full -time ministry anyone who wants to do ministry and and has is having to wrestle just with the the the

43:55

Affairs of everyday life the Augustin was not somebody who could just sit back and kick his feet up and study

44:01

You know 12 hours a day and that's how he's pumping out 5 .4 million words on the contrary

44:07

He says this now. This isn't a letter that he writes to this guy Piscidius who became his future biographer

44:14

He said I'm annoyed because of the demands Which are thrust on me to write arriving unannounced from here there and everywhere

44:21

They interrupt and hold up all the other things we have so neatly lined up in order They never seem to stop and can't be put aside.

44:27

So he's talking about getting letters and People asking for advice and so, you know

44:33

It'd be like us getting text messages and emails and all these things just all day long and you're thinking man

44:39

I you know, I don't have time for all of this But also here's the thing though when you look at what kind of letters or writing demands that Augustin is talking about Most of them are apologetic in nature not not that he's apologizing

44:54

But the sense of he's called to defend the faith and so a lot of times He's getting questions from skeptics on the origin of the soul

45:02

For instance, he's getting he's getting stuff regarding the Aryans who are denying the deity of Christ. They're very prominent in his day he has there's another man that he talks about who said very many false and absurd things as well as things against the

45:16

The the he says Catholic faith that would of course not be the Roman Catholic faith that be universal church type of thing

45:24

But anyway, so he desires to return to his own studies to his own writing And by the way, he preached four or five times a week

45:32

Okay, so and that was rare that was unique for him for a bishop at that time. So you can see even though he might have projects that he wants to get to Whenever these demands come in from people who are who are lost people who are questioning certain topics or doctrines he puts everything aside for the sake of Engaging that person for the sake ultimately of their soul, you know

45:57

He wants them to know the truth and he wants to combat whatever they're saying with the truth And so the same thing happens with with his preaching

46:05

I mean if he when you read a sermon Most of them are very evangelistic because of the fact he knows who is in the congregation

46:13

And again, that's why I you know The Puritans and William Perkins specifically when he's saying that his book the art of prophesying was was influenced by Augustine There's there's no doubt that there's there's there's a correspondence there.

46:27

There's correlation there and another thing to The other thing that he would have to do and this just seems just it seems horrible to me

46:34

But most most of his mornings he would have to oversee church courts Much like a judge would so these would be the problems and the debate disputes going on at the church

46:46

That's something that that a bishop would have to have done then and so it would be every morning and it would be for hours

46:52

You know, you're not talking like a 30 -minute meeting here It's it's the majority of his mornings were chewed up by sitting there and listening to these

47:01

These disputes that were taking place in the church and so He suffered from the same problem all ministers suffer from Namely a lack of time, you know, and yet It's not he didn't

47:16

He didn't let that hinder him from from still Engaging wholeheartedly with with the lost and everything he did

47:26

By the way, Pastor Gary I did a little research and it wasn't limbo that was attached to Augustin Augustin liked playing beer pong at the parties

47:41

Just kidding Gary We have one of our

47:47

Most loyal listeners who's written in the question. He must have a very vast library

47:53

That only includes books that he won from iron shop inside and radio

47:59

Gary and I'm sorry Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina greetings brothers

48:06

Dr. Michael AG Haken in his devotional book the weekly historian says

48:11

The truth of the matter is that we who are heirs of Western Christianity are all

48:18

Augustinians So profound has been his influence do you agree with that statement and I have a feeling

48:24

I know the answer to that Yeah. Yeah, if you're asking me,

48:29

I definitely agree with that because and I would say in a sense, it's more it's it's probably more

48:35

Unconscious or subconscious than it is anything else? Because it wasn't you know, it wasn't just His doctrine on Predestination for instance, but you're talking about even when it comes to You know even think about the the impact that he has on people who are like Let's say

48:58

Charlemagne who's sleeping with a copy of the City of God under his pillow, right? And then you have Luther and you have

49:04

Calvin and as I argued earlier I Believe that that they were because they were absorbing so much of Augustin is so much of his mindset

49:13

That that's what was a catalyst or at least in part was a catalyst for their missionary Zeal that they had themselves and there's a lot of good books out there.

49:21

It's actually Dr. Aiken has one out and there's several others out there that that are talking about the

49:29

Misunderstanding kind of like Augustin the misunderstanding in academia for the last 200 years as far as the

49:36

Reformers go Because there's this there's this assumption that they were not evangelistic they weren't missionary

49:44

And and now thankfully there's good books coming out and there's articles being written that are reversing that and showing that No, that was exactly what they were doing.

49:55

They were engaging the lost they were engaging False religions with the gospel and by God's grace.

50:01

They were they those those those areas of darkness and false religion They were being subdued by the gospel supplanted by the gospel

50:10

And so if you go back and look at the roots as far as where does that where does that? What does that mindset even come from now?

50:17

We know of course, it's God given but they are they are absorbing the writings and the teachings of Augustin and This when you read

50:27

Augustin that is exactly his same mindset So he's doing the same thing in His time as the

50:33

Reformers are doing in their time And of course the impact of the Reformers on the West on Western civilization is is monumental even even secular people have to recognize that and so There's no doubt and you know, even like I mentioned earlier to start out when you're talking about You're talking about Nietzsche.

50:53

You're talking about Freud You're talking about Kierkegaard all these guys that that that for better or worse

50:59

They did have an impact and an influence on society And that was that was all from Augustin.

51:05

So it's amazing. You know this he probably is I mean outside of Scripture I don't know of any single person who's had this kind of impact on on Western civilization

51:15

I want to pick up right where you left off there when we return from our midway break and Please be patient with us folks because the midway break as always is a longer break than the other breaks because grace life radio 90 .1

51:27

FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires of them to air their own public service announcements and other local things to Geographically localize iron

51:40

Sherpins iron radio to Lake City, Florida and Therefore while they do that we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

51:49

So use this time wisely Write down as much of the information as our advertisers provide as you possibly can

51:57

So that you can more frequently respond to our advertisers Hopefully that will often include purchasing their products using their services

52:06

Visiting their churches and supporting their parachurch organizations, but when you cannot do that Please at the very least reply to our advertisers using the information they they provide in their advertisements

52:19

Reply to them and say thank you for sponsoring iron sharpens iron radio That is if indeed you are really grateful that somebody is paying

52:28

Hard -earned money to keep this show in existence If you really love the show and are grateful for it.

52:33

Thank our advertisers because we require them to exist also send in your questions

52:39

To Ryan Denton on Augustin the evangelist the Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

52:44

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We'll be right back Don't go away We are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family

53:02

Banu Gadi owner of three, New York pharmacies Lee's drugs of floral

53:08

Park Long Beach chemists and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic

53:21

Please contact dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion

53:28

We are all hearing in the media To find the pharmacy nearest you call five one six three five four two thousand

53:36

That's five one six three five four two thousand or order online at Lee's drugs

53:43

Rx .com that's Lee s drugs rx .com.

53:49

Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program If you love iron sharpens iron radio

54:02

One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers

54:07

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

54:13

Daniel P Buttafuoco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist

54:19

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written

54:29

Word of God They go to various churches schools and institutions To publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by mr.

54:40

Butter Fuco Demonstrating the reliability of Scripture to advance the cause of the gospel

54:46

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611

54:57

King James Bible This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the

55:14

Tower of Babel and an Explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe

55:23

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more

55:38

Visit historical Bible Society dot org. That's historical

55:44

Bible Society dot org Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens.

55:49

I am radio on the air As Host of iron sharpens iron radio

56:08

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is

56:16

Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's

56:24

God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world

56:29

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

56:36

God in spirit and truth Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

56:41

God -centered focus Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs

56:48

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship Performed with faith joy and sobriety

56:55

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GC BC and J dot squarespace .com

57:05

That's GC BC and J dot Squarespace .com

57:11

or call them at nine zero eight nine nine six seven six five four

57:16

That's nine zero eight nine nine six Seven six five four tell pastor done that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio

57:37

Hello, my name is Anthony Vino and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York And also the host of the reform rookie comm website

57:46

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like I do You can now find it on the

57:53

Apple's iTunes app by typing iron sharpens iron radio in the search bar You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work

58:03

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the iron sharpens iron radio show at any time day or night

58:10

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

58:16

Solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show truth is so hard to come by these days

58:21

So don't waste your time with fluff or fake news Subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now

58:28

And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reform rookie comm podcast and visit our website and the

58:34

YouTube page We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as well as seasoned believers

58:42

From Keach's Catechism and the doctrines of grace to the Olivet Discourse and the book of Leviticus the reform rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth and Finally, if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689

58:59

London Baptist Confession of Faith Please join us at hope reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York again.

59:05

I'm pastor Anthony video and thanks for listening Why can't we see

59:12

God How do we know we picked the right Bible? Why do we go to church on Sunday?

59:18

Parents if your kids have questions about God's Word and his creation

59:23

They would love to read our new reformed magazine called ignited by the word

59:30

This magazine is packed full of devotionals Bible stories church history

59:36

Poems activities and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their walk with God created by a team of teachers

59:45

Ministers mothers fathers and more we know how important it is to have

59:51

Christian literature in our homes order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first two issues free

01:00:16

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

01:00:22

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

01:00:35

NASB I'm author Gary DeMar president of American vision and the

01:00:40

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Dan LeBennett of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York And the

01:00:48

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters ministries and the

01:00:54

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Reverend buzz Taylor author of God's Lawson and the

01:01:01

NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm dr William Webster pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington founder of the ministry

01:01:10

Christian resources The NASB is my Bible of choice

01:01:16

I'm pastor Ryan Golan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York And the

01:01:21

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia And the

01:01:30

NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air

01:01:38

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the

01:01:44

NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio

01:01:50

Go to NAS Bible comm that's NAS Bible comm to place your order

01:02:01

Hi This is John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the iron sharpens iron podcast

01:02:11

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

01:02:22

Christian faith I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

01:02:29

Where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised

01:02:38

Chris up for just such a time and knowing this It's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances

01:02:47

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting iron sharpens iron

01:02:54

Financially, would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

01:03:01

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would all the details can be found at iron sharpens iron

01:03:07

Radio .com where you can click support. That's iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:03:17

Here's what Gary DeMar president of American vision had to say about iron sharpens iron radio recently

01:03:27

One of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30 Wow, that's some compliment how much do

01:03:36

I owe you for that? I'll be glad you said it on the air

01:03:47

Tell your friends and loved ones about iron sharpens iron radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.

01:03:54

Eastern Time at iron sharpens iron radio .com Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said

01:04:08

Give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read

01:04:13

He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains

01:04:19

Proves that he has no brains of his own you need to read Solid ground

01:04:24

Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart the mission of solid ground

01:04:31

Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world

01:04:40

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered

01:04:45

Christ exalting books for all ages We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

01:04:53

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present

01:05:00

You can unearth from solid ground Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio

01:05:07

And please never forget folks how vital solid -brown -books .com Is to the existence of iron sharpens iron radio if they were to cancel their advertising contract with us

01:05:21

Bearing or should I say barring a Financial miracle from God we would likely be forced to go off the air their

01:05:29

Contribution financially to this program. Is that significant? So please visit solid -ground -books .com

01:05:36

frequently and purchase generously always mentioning that you heard about them From Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio, and please keep in mind

01:05:44

You're not only going to be doing solid -brown -books .com a favor by purchasing books from them and you're not only going to be doing iron sharpens iron radio a favor

01:05:54

By keeping one of our most important advertisers happy you're gonna be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing gifts

01:06:01

From solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor of incalculable value because they print nothing but the finest in Christian literature dating back to the

01:06:10

Protestant Reformation and extending forward to our current day with such modern -day authors as dr.

01:06:16

James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries So go to solid -ground -books .com today

01:06:22

Start purchasing your gifts for Easter and for Mother's Day and for Father's Day and for birthdays and wedding

01:06:30

Anniversaries and a host of other reasons why you purchase gifts for your loved ones at solid -ground -books .com

01:06:37

Before we return to Ryan Denton. We just have a couple other announcements to make First of all, if you love the show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves

01:06:45

I'm urging you please we are in some hard times financially If you don't want us to disappear

01:06:51

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now

01:06:56

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion If you prefer sending in a check the old -fashioned way via snail mail

01:07:05

Through your local Postal service there will be a physical address that appears in your screen as well when you click support at iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:07:16

Please as I try to remind you every day Never give your own church where you are a member less money that you're accustomed to giving

01:07:26

In order to give to iron sharpens iron radio. In other words don't cut into your tithes and offerings budget

01:07:33

In order to give to iron sharpens iron radio, please don't do that also do not

01:07:39

Put your family in further financial peril if you're really struggling to survive

01:07:44

I don't want to take food off of anybody's dinner table wait till you're more financially comfortable before you give

01:07:52

But if you love this show and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and family

01:08:00

You have extra money Please help us with some of that expendable money

01:08:06

By going to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now

01:08:12

We are in urgent need of your money folks So if you really care about the show You really don't want it to disappear go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

01:08:19

click support then click click to donate now Also, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful Christ honoring

01:08:27

Doctrinally solid theologically sound church no matter where on the planet Earth you live

01:08:33

I may be able to help you find a church just as I have helped many people Spanning the globe in our audience.

01:08:38

I have extensive lists all over the planet Earth And I may be even able to help you find a church that's within minutes of your own home

01:08:46

No matter where you live. I've already done that with many people. So send me an email to Chris arms in a gmail .com

01:08:52

Chris arms in a gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line last but not least if you are a man in ministry leadership a

01:09:01

Pastor an elder and by the way, I believe that's the same office a deacon a power church leader

01:09:07

Whatever leadership position you hold to as a man You are invited to the next iron sharpens iron radio pastors launch and it's absolutely free of charge and will be held

01:09:19

Thursday April 7th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania just about 20 minutes from Cumberland County if You would like to attend

01:09:32

Please send me an email to Chris arms in a gmail .com and put pastors luncheon in the subject line

01:09:37

My guest speaker this April 7th will be Daniel P But if you go attorney at law who is founder and president of the historical

01:09:46

Bible Society He will be giving a lecture a Absolutely extraordinary lecture that I've heard many times on how we received the

01:09:55

Bible in the English language He will also have on display a portion of his fascinating and rare Bibles and books of antiquity that you can see right up close at the venue

01:10:08

Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, that's Thursday April 7th 11 a .m.

01:10:14

To 2 p .m Send me an email if you'd like to come if you're a man and ministry leadership again, it's free admission and There will be nothing sold there either.

01:10:24

This is just to treat men in ministry to a day of rest relaxation Refreshment fellowship and free books because we're going to be giving away dozens of brand new free books that I personally select

01:10:37

Donated by major Christian publishers all over the United States in the United Kingdom. So you're gonna be having a great day that's for sure if you come send the email to Chris arms in a gmail .com

01:10:48

Chris arms in a gmail .com and Put pastors luncheon in the subject line.

01:10:53

In fact as my guest today Ryan Denton knows His publisher the greater heritage is

01:11:01

Providing a copy of Augustine the Evangelist for every man in attendance at the cut at the luncheon and I want to thank you again

01:11:10

Ryan for setting that in motion with your publisher Yeah, well and I appreciate you

01:11:16

I'm honored to To hear that you wanted to provide that book. So it worked out.

01:11:21

Well my my honor and privilege to do so Before the break

01:11:28

You were saying that there were even people that we would consider enemies of the cross enemies of Christ enemies of the scripture

01:11:36

Who somehow? benefited and applied the teachings of Augustine to Whatever influence they had on society and you would include

01:11:46

I think Freud and Nietzsche if I'm not mistaken, but when

01:11:53

Those that would consider themselves an enemy of Augustine to hear that they might see see

01:11:58

I told you so what benefit? Did Freud and Nietzsche ever give to the the society?

01:12:04

So if you could clarify that Sure. Yeah, it's not to say that what they were looking at.

01:12:10

They were not looking at his It's almost like, you know people that will will read will read the scripture and see in Jesus a good teacher

01:12:21

And and try to kind of cut away everything else. And so Yeah, when we say

01:12:28

Freud and Nietzsche and some of these other guys what they were doing is is especially in light of the confession so Augustine's confessions is really one of the first Autobiographies that was ever written in the

01:12:45

Western world. And so Freud especially would have been interested in that because that's that's that's you know

01:12:52

One of the first insights into the the psyche of a human being perhaps you could say, you know written from their own perspective and so and then and then with Nietzsche he was

01:13:05

He was probably and I'm not I'm not as certain about how Nietzsche was using him I'm assuming having read a number of Nietzschean stuff from from college and Certainly not endorsing any of that, but it's it's it's likely in light of I Don't know maybe the way that Augustine saw humanity

01:13:31

Now because Nietzschean Nietzschean ethics is about Transcending any kind of morality and that is not

01:13:40

Augustine So however Nietzsche was using a gust and kind of like Freud it certainly was not In the context that Augustine himself was was assuming that he would be taken and and but it's not to say that that that Augustine was not being used by these men whether for good or for evil

01:13:59

And so that's that's what you have with any I mean with any monumental Influential figure you're going to have people on every side trying to trying to use that and think again of Scripture, you know and how people say well well

01:14:16

You know Adolf Hitler used the Bible or Adolf Hitler used Martin Luther.

01:14:21

You know, it's like well In both cases, that's way out of context.

01:14:27

Perhaps you should say misused Right. Yes misused sure and that's exactly what what?

01:14:34

they were doing and so that's that's just it goes without saying any time that you have an influential whether it's a book or a person or a collection of works that that have that that have truth in them people are going to recognize that truth for what it is and then they'll try and Oftentimes spin that truth for the promotion of some agenda that that person or book never intended for it to be

01:15:01

By the way, I want to mention that anybody who has benefited greatly as I have from the writings and teachings of Dr.

01:15:12

Tom J. Nettles You'll be very thrilled to know that he wrote the forward to this book by my guest today

01:15:19

Ryan Denton Augustin the evangelist the zeal hope and methodology of the Bishop of Hippo and you could even look on the

01:15:27

Iron Sherpa design radio archives under Podcast past shows if you click on that, you'll see a fairly recent interview with dr.

01:15:36

Nettles and you could even type his name in the search engine and ETT LES for all of my interviews with dr.

01:15:44

Nettles It's taking a few steps back. Can you explain some of the pre conversion influences on Augustin's evangelism?

01:15:54

well, sure, so his mother would probably be the Most obvious one. She like I mentioned earlier.

01:16:00

She was a Christian and She she was a very zealous Christian and so even in Augustin's 20s and even at the time of his conversion his

01:16:12

Mother is always in the picture and that's Monica Yes, Monica.

01:16:18

Yeah, she's always she's always speaking to him about Christ She's praying fervently for his conversion and so she's she's definitely an influence both directly and I would say kind of more subtly in the sense of You know praying in secret perhaps for his soul and the

01:16:35

Lord blessing that prayer what an encouragement to mothers listening Who are heartbroken?

01:16:42

Because they see their children or at least some of them or one of them Who were raised in the faith perhaps and they've totally become a rebel an enemy of the

01:16:52

Lord an enemy of the gospel living Satanic lives even a child like that an apostate child

01:17:01

Can prove to be a prodigal son Like Augustin and become who knows maybe one of the greatest minds of Christianity just like Augustin Augustin was you know, and I mean this this guy was a true

01:17:18

He he was not He was a he was a he was living with a woman out of wedlock.

01:17:25

He actually had a son with that woman out of wedlock and and and you know, he was dabbling in all kinds of Weird Gnostic type of religions.

01:17:36

And so yeah, I mean if you think of You know the children who are let's say in their 20s and they're they're lost and they're you know in this

01:17:46

Some I don't know like even Just just the weirdest type of mystical stuff out there and and perhaps living a life of sin

01:17:55

That that was Augustin and this is what Augustin said about about his mother When he wrote the confessions, he says this he says and now

01:18:04

God did stretch forth thy hand speaking about God You did stretch forth thy hand from above and did draw up my soul out of that profound darkness of manichaeism

01:18:15

Because my mother your faithful one wept to thee on my behalf more than mothers are accustomed to weep for the bodily deaths of their children and Thou didst hear her.

01:18:26

Oh Lord Thou didst hear her and despised not her tears when pouring down they watered the earth under her eyes in every place where she prayed

01:18:33

Thou didst truly hear her and so Augustin himself attributes his conversion to the prayers of his mother and the ways that she was

01:18:42

Constantly Almost you could use the word badgering him I mean he she was very persistent and and you know in Augustin's case, that's that's what it took and finally

01:18:53

This is what he said He said nearly nine years passed in which I wallowed in the mud of that deep pit of manichaeism

01:18:59

And in the darkness of falsehood striving often to rise but being all the more heavily dashed down But all that time this chaste pious and sober widow talking about his mom

01:19:09

Such as thou dost love was now more buoyed up with hope So no less zealous in her weeping and mourning and she did not cease to bewail my case before you and all the hours of her supplication and so she she was a huge impact and and even when it comes to The way that Augustin would evangelize later on in life.

01:19:32

What's interesting is that he he has the same kind of spirit, you know, we're Monica You can tell she's very energetic she's very

01:19:43

Driven she's ambitious. I mean not in a negative sense either I mean, it's almost like what she has her mind on something in this case

01:19:50

Augustin's conversion Nothing else is nothing's going to stop that. You know, we know it's in Augustin certainly recognize that that's a

01:19:59

Gift that the Lord gives salvation But at the same time God does use means he uses people and in this case her

01:20:07

She was just a time dynamic personality and Augustin had that Augustin had that same thing

01:20:13

So whenever Augustin is converted and he's a bishop you'll see Augustin going out of his way on several occasions to go and and encourage friends to turn back to the

01:20:25

Lord and And on some occasions he risks life and limb and everything else for the sake of pursuing these people who are lost and that that in my mind is is one of Monica's greatest and most apparent personality traits, so Well, I don't know if this next issue

01:20:49

Reveals that you're a post -millennialist But you have a chapter on optimistic evangelism in Augustin tell us about that Well, and this you know, this is this is in response to The Pelagians of Augustin's day.

01:21:04

So at the end of his life Pelagius who was the the British He wasn't he wasn't a clergyman he was he was just an influential

01:21:16

Layman actually, but he was he was in England he was from England, but he had gone down to Rome and so, you know, he denied original sin

01:21:26

He thought that the will was completely neutral to choose either good or evil a lot of Arminian and Arminian doctrine comes out of Pelagius and so when

01:21:37

Augustin is later in his life Augustin is challenged by by this way of thinking and That so early on in Augustin's life, though You know, if you look back now,

01:21:50

I know there's there's several debates on whether or not these You know the early church if they were post millennial if they were all millennial if they were pre millennial

01:22:02

And in in my in my research you have a little bit of all of it Even though nobody's using those terms yet.

01:22:09

And so what's what's fascinating about Augustin though? Is that Augustin is living?

01:22:15

after let's see, so he's about 50 years after Constantine is the

01:22:21

Emperor in In in Rome, and of course whenever he becomes Emperor the official religion for the

01:22:28

Empire is Christianity Well, that is a that's that's a very optimistic thing You know, that's something that that is unheard of if you think that 300 years before that you had

01:22:38

Christians who were being Killed crucified maimed set on fire put into gladiators arenas

01:22:45

I mean these these guys were the scum of the earth and now 300 years later is the official religion of the entire

01:22:51

Roman Empire which is to say the the most powerful Empire at maybe the world had ever seen at that point.

01:22:59

So so here you have Augustin living on You know 40 years after this well that in itself is going to provide this this optimistic

01:23:10

Impulse or view of Christianity in my mind. Anyways, I think that that's just kind of natural however, even before that so if you look at like Athanasius Athanasius has has passages, so one of the books that really emphasize that inspired

01:23:27

Augustin in his conversion was the story of Athanasius wrote a biography of Antony the the the desert monk and when you read that there's a lot of this this idea about how

01:23:44

The devil has been defeated that Antony is is I mean, that's his mission out there in the desert you know, he's wrestling with with the devil with Satan and And and Satan is not victorious

01:23:56

And so when you start putting all of these things together for Augustin the

01:24:03

Millennium is now it's it's you know, it's it's to say that the Millennium began when

01:24:08

Christ came to earth and So you're having this this whole idea where Christ's kingdom is being advanced on earth

01:24:16

Throughout the world and they're seeing that with their eyes in real time So yeah, it goes without saying now now

01:24:23

I've you know, Kim Riddle Barger Barger. Yes Okay, so so he wrote a book called on millennialism and in that book and I quote it somewhere

01:24:37

He claims that Augustin was an Mill guy and then yeah,

01:24:43

Kim riddle Barger a case for on millennialism Yes, he's one of the team of the white horse and with Michael Horton.

01:24:50

Yes, that's right. That's right so in his book, you know, he He goes on to say that Augustin was

01:24:59

An all -millennialist and so others have claimed that he was a post -millennialist, you know

01:25:05

So I think what we can say for sure is that he was not a pre -millennialist in the at least later in life

01:25:10

Because he was that many changes classical pre -pre mill not not dispensational type But anyway, so I think it's a matter of interpretation in either way,

01:25:20

I think That those categories were not They weren't as a parent, you know, it wasn't debated as much it seems at least in the terms that we use 1 ,500 years ago, right and the dispensationalism didn't even exist till the 19th century

01:25:37

That's correct. Of course Millennialism did but not dispensational That's correct.

01:25:43

Yeah classical pre -millennial or historical pre -mill. Yeah, so that that was there But you know, I'll say this to the optimism

01:25:48

Here's the thing about the optimism if you compare let's say and this this flows from predestination also

01:25:55

So his optimism flowed from predestination, right? And usually so you we typically in Christianity we think of this as the opposite, you know

01:26:04

Whereas if you believe in in predestination that you're not going to you're not going to evangelize because what what's the need?

01:26:10

well, that's a straw man because the scriptures teach both Predestination and the necessity for Christians to evangelize

01:26:19

Yes, and so with Augustine if you think about the way he approached this The Pelagians for instance the way he approached it is is loosely in this way.

01:26:31

Okay, so if men have Libertarian freedom and if it was possible if it's possible to lose your salvation

01:26:39

Is there any guarantee? That anyone will actually choose to become

01:26:44

Christian and So Augustine didn't say that verbatim, but that's kind of what he's what what he's arguing.

01:26:51

So in other words When you're talking about who can who can be more confident with the gospel is somebody who knows that Christ Promises to build his church.

01:27:02

He promises that his sheep are going to hear his voice He has promised that he has died for his people and because of that I know when

01:27:10

I go out and evangelize or when I go out planted church, or you know I know that God has promised that he has people who are going to come and believe in the gospel, right?

01:27:22

The other on the other side you have more of an Arminian or Pelagian Outlook where you say

01:27:27

I have no guarantee from God that anybody will be converted because it's entirely

01:27:33

Entirely up to their freedom of choice number two if if you read scripture, you can see that and if you go out and evangelize you see that people are hostile in mind against the things of God the things of God are foolish to the

01:27:48

Unbeliever the preaching of the cross is foolish to those who are perishing And so in other words when I go out and evangelize

01:27:54

I don't have that confidence in the gospel I don't have that optimism in the gospel. So what do I have to do?

01:28:00

I have to insert certain gimmicks or methods into the gospel or in the case of the

01:28:05

Pelagians and this is something that even Secular historians like Peter Brown picks up on he notes that the

01:28:12

Pelagians were in their in their approach to people especially when it comes to how they spoke of the lost they come across as harsh and bitter and And I would

01:28:22

I would use the word shock and awe they have to use these things Why because they don't have as much confidence in the in the spoken word of the gospel to the lost and that's the difference right there in a big part between what

01:28:35

Augustine was doing and what Augustine was saying and how Augustine was seeing things in contrast to the

01:28:40

To the to the Pelagians who put salvation more upon the basis of man

01:28:46

Whereas Augustine was saying no, this is something God has already he's already done from eternity past He's already chosen who's going to be saved as the scriptures teach and so our job is to go and convey the gospel and he preached what we would call the the the open

01:29:06

Excuse me, the free offer of the gospel and and you can see that in a lot of his sermons that he's preaching that so in Other words, even though he believes in predestination.

01:29:14

He's certainly not what we would later call a hyper Calvinist or anything like that It's the opposite He's the opposite of that because he has the confidence that God is going to save people through the preaching of the gospel

01:29:26

Yeah, and if more missionaries and if more mission boards and denominations

01:29:32

Who sent out missionaries and believed as Augustine they would not be so They would not have so much of an an itchy trigger finger to remove

01:29:46

Missionaries from a mission field just because there's not instantaneous progress because Too often those who are non reformed get easily discouraged and Think they're wasting their time, but God says he promises in his word that Guarantees in his word that those from out of every tribe and tongue and people in nation

01:30:12

Will be worshiping the Lamb and therefore no matter where you go to evangelize eventually that spreading of the gospel is going to Bear fruit it might not even be in your lifetime

01:30:26

But eventually that it will bear fruit in some way it doesn't return void, right?

01:30:32

Yeah, and that's out Again going back to like I mentioned last segment the the influence on on the reformers

01:30:41

You know something I thought was humorous I was reading a very popular book actually called reformations by a guy named

01:30:49

Carlos Iyer and And I did a book review for it for founders years ago

01:30:57

But in this book, it's it's interesting because in this Carlos Iyer, he's I think he might be

01:31:03

Roman Catholic I don't know. He's certainly not a Protestant Christian, but in this book he said that Calvinist Did not just theorize they were also eager to overthrow false religion in any ruler who defended it and he also says

01:31:19

Calvinist tended to be aggressive not not not necessarily in their

01:31:26

Their behavior but as far as their outlook they tended to be aggressive impatient and bent on Continual growth and wherever they surfaced their activism would kick into high gear

01:31:36

And so it's interesting because this this guy, you know who in in so many ways He's very unsympathetic to the reform movement.

01:31:44

He comes around and he recognizes that these guys just like Augustine's doctrine teaches There is reason to be optimistic and hopeful that the gospel is going to spread

01:31:53

And as Iyer himself records Calvinism spreads to Scotland England Germany Hungary Poland and Lithuania within the span of 50 years after the

01:32:04

Reformation starts, you know So this is this is uh, this is the direct Lineage that that these guys they come from Augusta the lineage that they come from they come from his

01:32:15

His view of predestination all of were impacted by that at least on the reform side so it's just to say that and then you mentioned the the the people that have been that have been moved by The reform type of doctrines, you know, you're talking

01:32:32

Jonathan Edwards George Whitfield Hudson Taylor at an iron Judson Charles Spurgeon William Carey William Carey says this going back to your example as far as These these missionary boards that'll pull people off the mission field if they don't see, you know

01:32:47

X number of converts after five years Well, if that was the case William Carey would have been called back before he even saw anything

01:32:54

He says so William Carey who didn't see a single convert I think it was for his first six or seven years of First five and a half years of his ministry not a single

01:33:05

Indian convert But during that time he says I am very fruitless and almost useless

01:33:11

But the word and the attributes of God are my hope and my confidence and my joy and I trust that his glorious design will undoubtedly be answered and Amen Murray.

01:33:22

Yeah. Yeah, we we need a break We don't need one But if you'd like me to go to a break because we do have a final break we have to go to but I don't

01:33:31

Want I don't want to interrupt you in a mid -sentence. Oh, yeah So here here's Ian Murray, and if you haven't read the

01:33:37

Puritan hope he covers a lot of this in that book He says the obstacles were immense problems of poverty and illness overshadowed by the darker burden of a land

01:33:45

We're in Kerry's words 10 ,000 ministers would find scope for their powers were constantly with them

01:33:51

Through the first five and a half years. They saw not a single convert But then of course Kerry would go on to see revival several years later and you know

01:34:00

God ordained God appointed Revival not the not the stuff you see from Finney in the 1800s

01:34:07

This was this was the sovereignty of God moving on on Indians and and and they're still impacted by William Carey today to this very day and so Because of the the attributes of God which were the same things that Augustine himself believed in They were filled and fired up with this missionary zeal this confidence that the gospel was going to spread

01:34:30

Augustine had the same thing and it comes down to how they saw How they saw

01:34:35

God and in the way that scriptures communicate who God is to us in the scriptures He's a

01:34:40

God who's sovereign in salvation. He's a God who predestines He's a God who elects and that does not quench evangelistic zeal rather that that should fire us up and in fact

01:34:52

It also gives Those who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace peace

01:34:59

When we know people who we loved and whom we evangelized perish without any knowledge on our part as to whether or not they embraced the gospel because if you're going to be consistent a

01:35:17

Logically consistent as an Arminian or a non -Calvinist you should never have a sleepless night for the rest of your life after a loved one dies without a a

01:35:28

Open profession of faith because you should be taking a lot of blame for that That person's eternal

01:35:36

Damnation if indeed you're going to be logically consistent, but we know That although we are commanded to evangelize it is

01:35:46

God who gives the increase It is God who changes the heart and we can truly be logically consistent when we rest in His decisions on these things when we don't either visibly or audibly hear somebody embrace the gospel and of course

01:36:03

Just because we don't visibly or audibly here see or hear somebody embrace the gospel doesn't doesn't automatically mean they didn't

01:36:12

Especially if we're not even there When they died there are people who wrongly automatically conclude.

01:36:18

Oh my My mother died in a lost condition and sometimes I'll ask them were you there when she died and they'll say no

01:36:24

No, how do you know? But did I make sense in anything that I said? Yeah, well, and also

01:36:32

I think so Augustin. He has a comment somewhere. It's in the book that he says

01:36:38

He Criticizes the Pelagians for harping on the terrors of hell not in the now

01:36:45

Augustin Augustin preached on hell quite a bit back There's one scene where it's almost like a

01:36:51

Jonathan Edwards sermon where people are shrieking and and that's from Augustus preaching but but he says with the

01:36:56

Pelagians they they they use it in a way to Almost guilt people into believing the gospel, right?

01:37:04

and so it's almost like you see the same thing today where where it is that kind of Get out of hell freak hard and Augustin goes on to say that You know, it's it if if your reason for coming to Christ is so that you can avoid hell

01:37:18

That's not coming to Christ. That's doing something else. And so his point is is that So, you know even how it if this affects even how we share the gospel because for Augustin preaching

01:37:31

Christ was enough and telling people this is this is the reason to believe in the gospel is because of Christ and and and So the benefits from believing in Christ, of course are okay

01:37:43

You get out of hell you do go to heaven but it's not to say that that is the ultimate reason why you should believe the gospel and so on many levels

01:37:52

Augustin was able to and really for the first time because this Pelagian Doctrine Pelagian doctrine was not it wasn't really on the forefront of anyone's mind

01:38:04

I don't in fact if you read a lot of these guys including BB Warfield and they'll say that this is it was entirely new in the

01:38:13

Christian realm. It's it's Gnostic. It's It's pagan, but in the Christian realm

01:38:18

This was the first time it was kind of used as a as a as a view of who human beings are human nature

01:38:24

And so Augustin's having to deal with that He goes through there and it really comes out in the approach to evangelism as far as the benefits of the biblical doctrine of Predestination and the depravity of man in in contrast to the

01:38:38

Pelagius doctrine Amen, and we're going to our final break If you do have a question for our guest

01:38:44

Ryan Denton on Augustin and his book Augustin the evangelist Please email it to us now because we're rapidly running out of time

01:38:53

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence

01:39:00

If you live outside the USA, we'll be right back after these messages This is

01:39:14

Pastor Bill Sousa Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens iron radio

01:39:28

Financially Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers

01:39:33

Which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

01:39:41

Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God If you live near Franklin, Tennessee in Franklin is just south of Nashville.

01:39:52

Maybe ten minutes Are you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby?

01:40:00

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church Our website is grace church at Franklin org.

01:40:15

That's grace church at Franklin dot o -r -g This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

01:40:24

Sovereign Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always

01:40:34

As a mother I was looking for a magazine That would include devotionals that I could quickly do before school

01:40:43

Had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to understand that they could read themselves

01:40:49

Or I could walk them through there's tiered Content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger section and it's even more simple

01:41:00

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled ignited by the word

01:41:06

Which engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God?

01:41:13

order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands

01:41:34

You When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

01:41:48

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the

01:42:01

NASB This is Daryl Bernard Harrison co -host of the just thinking podcast and the

01:42:07

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Tom buck at First Baptist Church in Glendale, Texas and the

01:42:16

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm pastor Kent Keller of faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the

01:42:23

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Andrew Rapport the founder and executive director at striving for eternity ministries

01:42:32

And the NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Mark Romaldi pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee And the

01:42:41

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Christopher Cookston pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon and the

01:42:52

NASB is my Bible of choice I'm Matt Tarr pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the

01:43:00

NASB is my Bible of choice Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air

01:43:08

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the

01:43:14

NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio

01:43:20

Go to NASBible .com That's NASBible .com

01:43:25

to place your order Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio has had a longtime partnership with our friends at CVBBS which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service They specialize in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for everyone

01:43:54

CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987 operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania They seek to bring you the best available

01:44:02

Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices Unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because frankly

01:44:12

Much of what is being printed is not worth your time That means you can get to the good stuff faster

01:44:17

It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic Heretical and otherwise faith insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors

01:44:28

Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service order online at CVBBS .com

01:44:38

that's CVBBS .com or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231

01:44:47

That's 1 -800 -656 -0231 Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Linbrook Baptist Church on 225

01:45:04

Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century

01:45:09

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant

01:45:16

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing

01:45:24

We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and together

01:45:30

Hi I'm pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

01:45:36

Be call in Brook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402

01:45:44

Or visit Linbrook Baptist org. That's Linbrook Baptist org We are excited to announce another new member of the

01:46:01

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family Banu Gadi owner of three

01:46:06

New York pharmacies Lee's drugs of Floral Park Long Beach chemists and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead Banu Gadi earned a doctorate in pharmacy degree and is very knowledgeable on the current coronavirus pandemic

01:46:22

Please contact dr. Gaudi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the contradictory confusion

01:46:30

We are all hearing in the media To find the pharmacy nearest you call 516 -354 -2000

01:46:37

That's 516 -354 -2000 Or order online at Lee's drugs rx .com

01:46:46

That's L E E S drugs rx .com Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program

01:47:02

I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

01:47:13

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to Enthusiastically proclaim

01:47:38

Christ Jesus the king and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have for more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church Go to Hope Reform LI .net

01:48:00

That's Hope Reformed LI .net Or call six three one six nine six five seven one one

01:48:10

That's six three one six nine six five seven one one

01:48:15

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iren Sharpton's Irens Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile

01:48:39

Institutions coffee shops and local hangouts Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need

01:48:47

Jesus We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

01:49:11

To youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future

01:49:18

Volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call Long Island Youth for Christ at six three one three eight five eight three three three that's six three one three eight five eight three three three or visit liyfc .org

01:49:38

That's liyfc .org Welcome back Ryan we have an anonymous listener who says

01:49:46

I Frequently evangelize my Roman Catholic family and friends and I know that from history

01:49:53

One of the ways that the Reformers had success winning converts out from Rome Was by proving that their understanding of the church fathers was false

01:50:05

And they proved that the church fathers agreed with them on the gospel Do you know of any short and concise books by?

01:50:15

Augustine that could be given to Roman Catholics that would prove that gosh that Augustine for the most part is on the side of Protestantism when we are referring to the gospel itself

01:50:29

Yeah, if you I mean, there's there's there's chunks.

01:50:35

I mean, it's a loaded question because you have it I would say this from the I think from the

01:50:41

Roman Catholic side What I what I like doing is to demonstrate that Whatever whatever document they want to put forward that that shows that Augustine is on their side

01:50:54

That same document will have things in there that reject or oppose the Roman Catholic doctrine in other areas and so Confessions is usually where people start and that that really is one of the just most beautiful Scripture saturated books that you'll ever that you'll ever read.

01:51:15

I mean, that's that's of course. It's not short and concise though It's not short and concise though, well, it's yeah,

01:51:25

I mean the confessions is going to be probably 250 -300 right just you know, nobody

01:51:32

Really wrote anything short Well, I think maybe maybe what the listener means is that you know

01:51:40

There have been publishers who have taken excerpts from those larger volumes and made them booklets

01:51:47

Yes. Yes, right. And well even you know, I would say even his sermons though He has really good sermons that if you read through a sermon, there's a sermon that you can find out there.

01:51:59

It's called I think it's called against the Pagans. Yeah, I'm almost positive. It's called against the

01:52:05

Pagans and if you read that sermon It's very evangelistic and it's it's

01:52:13

It's it's very gospel centered. And so that's one sermon off the top of my head that you might be able to find and in the book

01:52:24

There's a lot of References to footnotes and sermons so so you'll be able to to find that a little easier because with the guts and a number of sermons

01:52:35

I Don't I don't know who number them, but you know, it's like sermon 202 or something like that. So It's it's just one of those things

01:52:44

It's unfortunate. It's hard to find something short and concise from August in any ways

01:52:54

I'm Looking at my collection here and on the Trinity's thick, you know

01:53:00

The City of God is is thick there is a book called Augustine Augustine on prayer actually is not too long

01:53:07

I don't know if that would answer your question though as far as giving something Well Roman Catholic what you mentioned

01:53:15

Augustine and the Pagans tell us about the evangelism of Augustine to the Pagans in his society and How how that Reaction how the how was the reaction to that by the pagans?

01:53:30

Yeah, so this the City of God, which is which is Augustine's kind of a it's his it's his

01:53:37

Apex of everything he had worked on it. It took you know Decades to do and the entire book is written for pagans

01:53:46

It's for a pagan audience To demonstrate that because what was happening is that the pagans were blaming

01:53:52

Christians for the sack of Rome so at the end of at the end of Augustine's life, he

01:53:58

Roams actually sacked at the at the end of his life. And so And yet he's still optimistic so that's kind of neat but he writes that entire book to demonstrate

01:54:09

That the pagan religion was built on a faulty edifice. And so Augustine what he does is

01:54:17

Because he's so well versed in the pagan literature. He can pull out certain examples of this to demonstrate that That that pagan religion and pagan society is very immoral

01:54:29

It's very degenerate and so to blame Christianity for the sack of Rome is actually it's extremely wrongheaded

01:54:37

And in consequence the reason or in contrast the reason Rome was sacked was because Rome was was still too pagan

01:54:45

So although it had been Christian eyes, it certainly was not a Christian quote -unquote Christian society.

01:54:51

And so I kind of see it in a sense as a some of the seed of what would seeds of what would eventually become presuppositional apologetics type stuff where you're you're starting out with the presuppositions of your opponents and you're demonstrating the inconsistency or the error of that presupposition in Contrast to the

01:55:14

Christian Presupposition and so that's how he that's how he would go about dealing with pagans and it did help that he knew

01:55:21

Their their position so well I mean that was certainly one of his his his weapons that was very effective because he knew

01:55:28

What their arguments were he knew what they were going to say and how they how they thought in a sense because he had studied that literature

01:55:36

And he was he really was a genius. I mean, I think even before he was converted

01:55:41

He was he was on another level intellectually. And so whenever he was converted he was he was

01:55:48

By God's grace, you know able to to truly dismantle the pagan worldview

01:55:55

And anonymous email me your full name and mailing address so that we can have CVB BS Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship out to you a free copy of Augustan the evangelist by our guests today.

01:56:07

And once again We want to thank the greater heritage publishing for providing these books

01:56:13

We have one time for one last question that requires a fairly Short response.

01:56:18

We have another anonymous listener who says I'm involved in a debate with Brothers in Christ over the two kingdom doctrine and there are some that attribute this doctrine to Augustans two cities and I think that they are wrong in their application of that.

01:56:35

What are your thoughts? Yep, that's right. I agree. I Everything he just said

01:56:42

I agree with he so Augustan was Certainly an advocate of what

01:56:50

So it's complicated so what people mean when they say to Kingdom theory today is in my reading.

01:56:58

Anyways, it's not exactly the way that Augustan Approached it because Augustan when he talked about the two kingdom theory

01:57:05

He was talking about the fact that we as Christians are living rubbing elbows with right next door neighbors with People of the world and so you have two kingdoms living side by side within within the same sphere the same community

01:57:24

And so the thing is though is that? Augustan Certainly never saw that as a reason to retreat or a reason to kind of just cave to that other kingdom so it's

01:57:37

Christians, you know, it doesn't mean that that that we should be pacifist or we should just kind of Refrain from engaging in society or in the in in the political arena or anything like that.

01:57:49

In fact, it was the opposite And there's there's different nuances and reasons for that But I do have a whole chapter in the book devoted to that topic because that is

01:57:58

I know something that in certain respects is It's still an ongoing discussion today in our own context.

01:58:06

So Yeah, I've referred to the book for that just because the time well anonymous

01:58:12

You've also won a book if you provide for us your full name and mailing address And I want to thank you Ryan for another excellent interview