March 16, 2022 Show with Ryan Denton on “Augustine the Evangelist”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

The Call to Mutual Edification from Proverbs 27:17

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at Iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 16th day of March 2022.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a guest that we have interviewed before and even as recently as last week. But today we are going to be interviewing Ryan Denton on a different book that he has written.

He was a pastor of the Navajo reservation before starting Christ in the wild ministries Which he has directed since? 2016 a church planter and an evangelist in Texas and the author of several books. We are going to be a dust discussing his latest book today Augustin the evangelist the zeal hope and methodology of the Bishop of Hippo and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back again to iron sharpens iron radio.

Ryan Denton and.

If you could. Let our listeners know something about Christ in the wild ministries.

You know. The website address is Christ in the wild calm Christ in the wild calm for more information and.

Augustine’s Influence on Christian Thought

Augustin is someone who is considered at least by his proponents his fans. For lack of a better term he is considered one of the greatest minds in the history of Christendom. And those that either are opposed to the the usage of Augustin's theology teachings and writings are.

When they're coming from a Protestant or fundamentalist or Evangelical standpoint they are typically speaking in total ignorance. They Think that Augustin because he is a hero of Roman Catholics. Who also misunderstand him and wrongly attribute to him?

Beliefs teachings and practices that he never even dreamed of. So are those in the Protestant realm who are opposed to him ignorant of the true Augustin because of the fact that they Have an erroneous Understanding that he is just as the Roman Catholic adherence of Augustin.

They think that the Catholics are right. They think that he is a Roman Catholic theologian and didn't Augustin live in a day before there was actually a Roman Catholic Church.

Yeah, and I think part of the other problem is that a lot of the Non-reform non-Calvinistic wing of the church sees in Augustin. Somebody who brought in the doctrine of predestination things like yeah for from from both from both corners.

Really he. So tell us about.

Augustin of Hippo give us some background information. Especially for the sake of those that are completely ignorant of him or only have a basic knowledge of him. That may be false.

Okay, yeah influence of Augustin Just in general is immense. You can find a list excuse me Augustin Luther is one of them Freud Aquinas Anselm Pascal Kierkegaard Nietzsche Wittgenstein Just to name a few were influenced by his writings.

The Emperor Charlemagne used to sleep with a copy of Augustine City of God beneath his pillow at night. And so that's just you know, that would be outside aside from Luther. That's going to be guys who are who are typically considered outside the your mainstream Orthodox tradition, but even when it came to The Puritans and the Reformers, you know William Perkins And he acknowledges that deals with homiletics and things like that and then of course John Calvin I think the Institute's Augustin is quoted more than anybody else with the exception of maybe Bernard of Clairvaux.

So Augustine has a huge influence on Calvin you have John Knox that he said his favorite church fathers were Augustine and Chrysostom and so the Puritans according to Perry Miller who was a You know Historian about the Puritans.

He said that Augustine was actually more popular amongst the the people living in the 1600s than even the Reformers so so he's just had a monumental impact on the tradition of Christianity in the Roman Catholic or they're just the the more reformed Calvinistic wing of Christianity I mean this he's he's monumental.

He was he had a big influence in his own day. So a lot of times, you know people Aren't really recognized or noticed until after they died With the guts and that wasn't quite the case because of the way he was converted.

He was converted at 31 And so he was a little older in life, but when he was converted he held what would Be considered for us to be something like the Dean of you know What are the most prestigious universities in the world?

So maybe a Cambridge or or Oxford or something like that. And so he was he was an academic and He was certainly not a Christian. His mom was a Christian when he was growing up. His dad was a pagan and so He wrestled with with different Philosophies and worldviews and then eventually 31 and and when he did save Augustine, I mean it was it was Lights out to his whole path.

Yeah. He quit the academic stuff but he went back to and he wanted to spend his life as a and just kind of just kind of study books and read and Talk about him and things like that. Well, and this is something I write about in the book.

What compels him out of that though is a few different circumstances, you know It's never black and white but one of the the main thrust was them he wanted to go in the jaws of paganism and false rely me eventually he goes and becomes a bishop and He It's kind of like tucked away in the desert somewhere where they just bring it fasting raining ground.

Just everything he did was was I've always been a fan of Augustine. But when you read through the lens of looking at his theological prowess Which is topical achievements, which I was trying not to be biased being very myself, but leading the gospel to that's a bandit award.

Yes, he's been on the program.

Okay. Yeah, so yeah. 75 he said. I would I would love to read what you have and offer some. That's where it started. And now it's you know, and let some of the some of the heavy-duty scholars and act now.

Augustine, the Reformers, and the Question of Gospel Continuity

Obviously there has been debate.

Between Roman Catholics and Evangelicals. Particularly Reformed Evangelicals who openly and enthusiastically welcome Augustine as one of our heroes. There has been debate and disagreement. Vociferous disagreement.

Dating back to the Reformation itself as to whether Augustine truly believed in the same gospel as the Reformers and although Luther Loved Augustine as well. I'm particularly speaking of our of our Calvinistic Reformers including Calvin.

The the Roman Catholic would say that we are either totally ignorant of History and Augustine in particular or we are lying one of the other to dare to say that Augustine's understanding of unconditional election and God's sovereignty in salvation and the gospel itself.

Were that these teachings were the same in Augustine's heart and mind as they were in Calvin's heart and mind and his heirs in the Reformed faith. So why don't you set the record straight as far as you understand it?

In his case, what is that 1 ,500 years ago. And it's certainly not to justify Augustine's mistakes because he certainly even when it comes to evangelism in the book emphasis and reliance at times on miracles that you can find in his work and.

And also even with certain elements of coercion State coercion against and especially that ladder has been mischaracterized also. But anyway, so You know, it's I think BB Warfield said that the Reformation itself was a beating the Roman Catholics view and the doctrine Augustine's doctrine of justification.

Which would be more in line with the Protestant? Reformation view and so I think that's probably the best summary that you can find because there is a there is an element of You know an emphasis on on on sacraments and even baptismal regeneration.

Type of stuff you can see that even in Augustine's can it's not to say that he was perfect. However, it is like you're saying when it comes more in line with the yes, those are.

Head-scratching oxymoronic things that we find in some of our heroes in Augustine and Luther in particular. Luther believed in all five solos of the Reformation. Which he didn't coin those all of those battle cries, but they're found within his various writings.

But he agreed with all of them. He agreed, I mean he championed solo fide and solo gratia and yet continued to believe in baptismal regeneration, which seems to be at the antithesis of Solo fide and solo gratia and that would I would include Augustine in that.

Already had numerous, you know, the Nicene Council we've had numerous Debates and treatises and systematic theology books that have already been written before we are even born. That that I've really hashed this issue out.

And so, you know in Augustine's day figure out what exactly is going on there I the first time I well not the third or fourth time I preached in my life back there 11 years ago I was 20 27 and and I was not in Augustinian.

The confessions by the Calvinist per se although, you know, the doctors were certainly there. But I preached a sermon at a little Baptist Church in New Mexico and after the sermon There was a man that they called on to pray to close the service they called on him to pray and he stood up and started praying and You know, I'm not I'm not exaggerating when I say it was about a 15 minute prayer, but it was a it was a sermonette on the reason why so he was praying like Because he's clearly a Calvinist and he's an Augustinian and you know, it got stood and these in Calvin and these guys have had such a horrendous Negative impact on so many people and on the church and all these things and I'm I'm thinking man I don't even know what he's talking about, you know but then I found out he was a Church history professor out of a very Arminian school in that area so You know, the thing is my point is is that it's it's easy for let's say any of us to be very one-sided about this.

Everything out that was meaningful at all about about Augustin. Whereas if we if we actually go down that route. Then we're going to have to throw everybody out in the history of the church because there was never a single person Whose doctrine was was perfect in every area and so I'm saying that not to excuse Augustin but to rather look at it in light of our own sanctification Augustin's own sanctification and and also the testimony that we have of.

Just in between Augustin's lifetime and ours. Just the amount of people like Luther like a gut excuse me. Like Calvin like the Puritans William Perkins these other guys who clearly saw something beneficial.

About a gut and I would say I would actually argue and in the book I do argue that if it wasn't for Augustin the missionary mindset of a gush of Augustin the influence of Augustin the desire of Augustin that with the gospel that is going to be Directly it's going to be picked up by King Augustin's and to sum up one of the.

Vital points of what you are saying People should never Be guilty of bearing false witness Against anyone including those who have been deceased for many centuries like Augustin and therefore The Roman Catholics must be very careful not to lie about Augustin or repeat falsehoods out of ignorance.

That that would be included in their many comments, especially comments by people who should know better like trained apologists who regurgitate over and over again the unanimous consent of the fathers and try to make the claim as that the the church fathers Unanimously agreed with Trent's dogmas that they defined.

And some of those dogmas that were defined at Trent. And even dogmas that were defined later even in the 20th century. One of which was defined in the 20th century. None of those things were even a Thought in the imagination of the earlier church fathers including Augustine.

And I'm not of course not speaking about every single Dogma, but I'm saying many of those things especially those in regarding Mary and some of the sacraments and so on and the view of the Transubstantiation of the mass and things like that.

Many of those things have just nowhere to be found in the patristic evidence. Am I right?

They are just like any of us they're in the process of Growing and their views on certain things changed. And so for instance when when Rome wants to claim a certain father and what they said about a certain topic.

And they said we'll see so-and-so said that over here. Therefore it substantiates what what are what our dogmas are the problem with that? Is that? That person that they're quoting let's say Augustine for instance he might have had that view early on and that his mind changes later on and.

And so they're still using a certain view on that. And so The problem with that is of course, they're viewing these these guys as having as much and so. Yeah, the abuse on Again, I would say the abuse on both sides whether it's more of your fundamental Armenian type or whether it is the Roman Catholic.

When they're when they're using Augustine to When they're manipulating Augustine ultimately to justify a certain narrative or a certain purpose that they have in mind. Like for instance to discredit Predestination they'll say well, we'll look at Augustine, you know, he's he's he's a proving state coercion or look at Augustine.

He's a Roman Catholic and he believes in predestination. You know, that's that's. Why that's not even close to the full picture and so the same thing happens with the Roman Catholics and of course we as Protestant reform Protestants we need to Be careful that we don't do that either.

So and that's you know again with this book. There are areas that I certainly am critical about when it comes to Augustine and I've mentioned two of them already. But even even certain Aspects of his preaching it can kind of carry into more of a works based type of framework, but it's always.

It's it's the majority of his sermons that I've read anyways and you know, the other thing about Augustine is Let me let me let me share this quote, so It's estimated. He wrote 5 .4 million words during his ministry.

And so there was a medieval monk who said that he who says he has read all of Augustine lies. Speaking of Augustine's works one of so is he had a contemporary biographer Vesidius who said that scarcely any student would be able to read and know all of his works so, you know, there is that caveat as well, but it's just to say that that The majority of his sermons do not come across as workspace they don't in my estimation, you know, it kind of depends on the context and the search context a situation that he's preaching into but he is without a doubt an evangelistic missionary type of pastor.

He was a pastor and in doing a lot of stuff I mean this guy had a lot on his plate and and his life was committed to the church. It really was and not the Roman Catholic Church Universal Church read his works.

And I hope when you read this book, you'll that'll definitely come through in the black eyes that you'll occasionally have with him.

Well, we have to go to our first station break. If you have a question for Ryan Denton on Augustine, please. Send us an email the Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away. We'll be right back with Ryan Denton and more of our discussion on Augustine right after these messages.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in our guest today is Ryan Denton and we are discussing his new book Augustine the Evangelist the zeal hope and methodology of the Bishop of Hippo and we do have a Listener who has a question for you, and you've already addressed some of What he is Asking about but I'll have you Reply to it nonetheless and because it's not everything he's asking is Something that you've addressed and this happens to be a pastor who I highly regard Pastor Gary George and after you finish Responding to my friend Pastor Gary.

I will provide Gary's contact information his website and so on because he happens to be a pastor that I want people to Know about. I want people to visit his church and so on if they live in his area.

I always try to Do that as much as possible as far as spreading the word about good churches on my show. He's the pastor of Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts. But he says am I correct that Augustine believed in the necessity of water baptism for salvation.

Particularly for infants that they couldn't go to heaven apart from being baptized and if they weren't they would go into limbo. Something that may maybe he first posed How and his second question is how did his position on baptism?

Correlate with his teaching on justification by faith and predestination. So I guess really the the only question the only issue that you haven't addressed to my knowledge on the show is the limbo issue.

And I have no recollection of coming. Maybe it was a party game that he enjoyed. When you have somebody let's say it I guess. And they agree there's inconsistencies on this so it's you know, I. Well, thank you, Gary.

And I want our listeners to know that your website for Sovereign Grace Chapel in Southbridge, Massachusetts. Is Sovereign Grace MA the abbreviation for Massachusetts org. Sovereign Grace MA org. Thanks a lot Gary.

And by the way, you have won a free copy of Augustine the Evangelist and We are going to have CV BBS. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship that out to you and this is compliments of the greater heritage publishing and also CV BBS who are Picking up the postage fee to ship it out to you.

So thank you so much Pastor Gary and by the way, I want to read before we continue. I want to read a couple of very powerful endorsements for this book. William Van Dood board who has been a guest on this program.

He is professor at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan. He says this is a great story of a man with an evangelical heart in action. But even more marvelously it is a narrative of our Lord Jesus Christ saving and sanctifying a sinner from another time and culture to become an instrument for the salvation and sanctification of many others.

And Rob Ventura another guest that I have interviewed on this program in the past. He says educational and exciting this volume motivates us to follow in the footsteps of this great theologian Who earnestly preached Christ to the lost?

I highly encourage everyone to take up and read this book and obviously Rob is referring to the story of how Augustine actually Got saved by the grace of God when he heard Children chanting in Latin tola a leg or am I mispronouncing that Latin phrase?

No, that's right and which means take up and read and it seems to be confusing as far as the historian accounts of that. Whether he was actually hearing literal children chanting that while they were playing or if it was some kind of a supernatural thing.

What is your take on that?

You know, I always. By the way folks I just wanted to let you know if you live.

In the Providence, Rhode Island area the man whose Commendation I just read Robert Rob Ventura. He is pastor at Grace Community Baptist Church in North Providence, Rhode Island and I strongly urge you to visit his church if you live in that area.

Especially if you do not have a biblically sound church of your own. By the way Ryan, please Stick to this phone that you're using a yellow neon sticker that says use this phone for Chris Arnson's and interviews because it is Infinitely superior to the first one you're using.

Yes. I have no idea why it is infinitely superior. Thanks for calling back in to the studio on that phone. You titled the book as we've been repeating Augustin the evangelist. Now could this Selection of a title not only be because you're focusing on that aspect of him.

But because when people think of a great mind like that when they think of a theologian like that They typically may think Erroneously and perhaps it's not always wrong that they think this way or incorrect, but but they may draw the conclusion when somebody is a giant of intellect who is beloved by the majority of Academia in Christendom as one of the of the greatest minds that ever lived in regard to The Christian faith they may think this man was just locked in a study.

And just writing and writing and writing and Evangelism wasn't even a part of his life. They may wrongly conclude. But is that one of the reasons that you wanted to focus on this? Yeah, absolutely.

It was from Cantor just enormous amount speak of Augustin the evangelist. It's not it's not the one from hippo. It's the one from Canterbury and and so that was that's part of it. But you know if you think and that's if you think of Augustin, you know, if it was your mind when when you.

Immediately you're thinking exactly just thinking or you know. The the coerce in my in my mind. Anyways, when you read Augustin and you see and not just Augustin, but even the biographies. There's there's a lot of good biographies written about Augustin.

They don't mention him as an as an evangelist. They don't mission mention him as a missionary and and again I've him in that context who Augustin lived in a day when even though on paper the Roman Empire.

Anytime he's doing ministry. He's engaging with people who are either actually Augustin was not somebody who could just sit back and kick his feet up and study. You know 12 hours a day and that's how he's pumping out 5 .4 million words on the contrary.

He says this now. This isn't a letter that he was in emails and I'll look at what kind of letters or writing demands that Augustin is talking about. Most of them are apologetic in nature not not that he's apologizing.

But this getting questions from us regarding the area another man that he talks about who said very many false and absurd things as well. Faith that would of course not be the Roman Catholic faith. But anyway, so he desires to return to his own studies to his own writing and by so and that was rare.

That was unique for him for a bishop at that time. So you can see. Even though he might have projects that he wants to get to. Whenever these demands come in from people who are who are lost people who are questioning certain topics or doctrines.

He puts everything aside for the sake ultimately of their soul. You know, he wants them to know the truth and he wants to combat whatever they're saying with the truth. And so the same thing happens with with his preaching.

I mean is he when you read a sermons in the congregation? And again, that's why I did and another thing to be the problems and that he suffered from the same problem all ministers suffer from namely a lack of time, you know, and yet.

It's not he didn't. He didn't let anything he did.

By the way, Pastor Gary. I did a little research and it wasn't Limbo that was attached to Augustin. Augustin liked playing beer pong at the parties. Just kidding Gary. We have one of our most loyal listeners who's written in a question he must have a very vast library.

That only includes books that he won from iron shop inside and radio. Gary and I'm sorry Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina. Greetings brothers. Dr. Michael AG Haken. In his devotional book the weekly historian says.

The truth of the matter is that we who are heirs of Western Christianity are all Augustinians so profound has been his influence. Do you agree with that statement? I have a feeling I know the answer to that.

Yeah, yeah, if you're asking me I definitely agree with that because probably more on people who are and then you have. That's what was a catalyst. Misunderstanding option that they were not evangelistic.

They know that was exactly what they were doing. They were engaging the lost they were with the gospel. If you go back and look at now. We know of course on the West on Western civilization talking about talking about for all these guys that I.

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To Ryan Denton on Augustin the evangelist new Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. We'll be right back. Don't go away. We are excited to announce another new member of the iron sharpens iron radio advertising family Banu Gadi owner of three New York pharmacies Lee's drugs of floral Park Long Beach chemists and prescription center of Long Island in Hempstead.

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