Steven Anderson Confronted In A Field

Apologia Studios

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00:01

Hang on. So about earlier? I kind of agree. Listen, there's 4 million people in the city. Okay. I said that I'm not interested.

00:08

No, no. Fair enough. Okay. I don't actually remember hearing you say that part, but I understand. I just wanted to make sure that if you did know something that I didn't know, you could share it with me.

00:16

Because I actually, in one sense, agree with you that if I don't speak it, then I don't need to expose myself. Yeah. You know what you're doing?

00:21

That's just pride. That's just pride. Like, oh, the Greek word here. No, no. And you don't even speak Greek. Do you know Greek? Yeah, I do know

00:27

Greek. I've read the New Testament cover to cover in Greek multiple times. Okay. So that claim that he makes in the videos, to me,

00:36

I've read it multiple times. So when we catch him making mistakes, this is not just something he puts into videos.

00:45

He says this when talking to people on the street. He's really claiming a high level of expertise in the language.

00:54

So we've already pointed out numerous problems, even in the refutation of the first.

00:59

We're in the third chapter, and there's going to be more coming up. My name is

01:05

Chris, by the way. It's not even pronounced Metanoia. Okay. My name is Chris. That's fair. Pronunciation. How would you pronounce it? It's Metaneal.

01:11

Okay. So it is Metanoia. That's the verbal form. I think he's trying to do—I'm sorry, the noun form.

01:19

I think he's trying to do a verbal form. But he uses modern Greek pronunciation as if that's somehow all that and a bag of chips or something.

01:29

Anyone who picks on pronunciation, unless it's just simply not even possible in either one of those two systems, is probably just trying to show off.

01:40

And I have a feeling if I just walked up to the Greek New Testament, popped it open someplace and said, let's go. That what he's thinking is, he can read it as in pronounce it.

01:50

That's different than—that's totally different than read it and live translate into English in a sermon.

01:59

Okay. That's a different thing. And it means repent, right? Or what does it mean? Let me ask you.

02:05

So why don't we just speak English and just say repent? Repent. So Jesus said to repent, right? Yeah. But you don't have to repent of your sins to be saved.

02:12

Nowhere does the Bible say to repent of your sins to be saved. That's a works -based salvation. Does it say that? Okay. So I love how they put these references in here.

02:22

And that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in his name to all the nations beginning from Jerusalem. Whoops.

02:31

You know, you didn't get to do that during the conversation, but it's good to put that up there. But once again, for those—for people who are always tuning in that might be new

02:40

Christians and stuff like that, there is a teaching.

02:47

It is a grossly anti -biblical teaching. It is a teaching that has wrought tremendous destruction, that faith alone means faith without repentance.

03:03

One of the things this conversation illustrates, and any—when we get into—it's either chapter four or five of the responses, because I've listened through,

03:13

I think, six now. And I'm getting them edited, queued up, so we can listen to them here on the program.

03:20

He doesn't really deal a lot with the book at those points. Instead, he gets—he really focuses on false gospel stuff from his perspective, and that is repentance and living a holy life and, you know, the text in John 3, he who does not believe, but he who obeys, and John uses two different words.

03:44

It's really illustrative of what happens when you do not have a balanced, reformed understanding of the gospel.

03:52

Because from their perspective, they're trying to take a reformed concept, faith alone, and they're trying to fit it into a man -centered system, where you are the one who has faith.

04:09

Rather than seeing faith as a gift of God, it's part of the work of the Spirit of God, God raises you to spiritual life, the gifts of faith and repentance are given by God, they are a part of the work of the

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Spirit in life. And so, we can maintain a meaningful doctrine of sola fide without divorcing the fide from the work of the

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Spirit in our lives, and everything else the Bible says about holiness. Since they have a man -centered system, they can't do that.

04:39

And so, you end up with this massively imbalanced position, where you just tip your hat toward God, boom, you get your ticket stamped, and hey, it's a good thing if you repent, and it's a good thing, and given how legalistic a lot of these guys are about dress and everything else, it's really ironic.

05:04

But it's good to be a super Christian, it's good to be a disciple, but you don't have to. As long as you believe, you got your ticket punched, and you know, the writing of the

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Hebrews says, without holiness, no one's going to see God, but that's worth salvation.

05:21

No, it's not. That's a recognition that when God saves someone, he has a purpose in saving them, and he's going to accomplish certain things.

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But with a man -centered salvation system, you can't balance this stuff, you end up having to throw stuff in the

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Bible out, and that's what you see with Stephen Anderson, is he just throws so much of the

05:39

Bible out to make his system work. 24? I'm just asking you, does it say that? No, it doesn't. So it doesn't say, repent for forgiveness of sins?

05:48

It does not say that, no. That's not what it says. What does it say in Luke 24? It just says that repentance and the forgiveness of sins should be preached.

05:57

It doesn't say, repent of your sins. So here's the thing, repent means to turn or to change your mind, or to go in another direction, okay?

06:04

Well, guess what? The thing that causes people to be unsaved is that they don't believe in Christ. Do they have to change their mind to believe in Christ?

06:11

Yeah. So that's repentance. But not repent of your sins. They don't have to repent of their sins, they have to repent of believing in the wrong thing.

06:18

So could I say, turn from your sins? No, that's a lie. If you have to turn from your sins, that's works.

06:25

Is it? Oh yeah, it's just so easy to turn from all your sins, right? Let me ask you. It's work, you've got to work on it every day.

06:31

Let me ask you a different way. Is it work if God changes my mind and I turn from my sins?

06:38

Look, all you're doing is just, you're just repackaging works salvation. There's two kinds of salvation.

06:43

Faith, works. I believe salvation's by faith, you believe salvation's by works, okay?

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The NIFB mindset is so black and white, and yet so errant as a result.

07:00

They don't care to know what the historical arguments were. It's just, we're the only ones that believe in salvation by faith, and you believe in works.

07:11

How can you prove that I believe it's by works? Okay, let me prove it to you. Jonah 3, verse 10 says, and God saw their works that they turned from their evil way.

07:21

And God repented of the evil that he said he would do unto them, and he did not. What does that have to do with the price of butter in Russia?

07:29

I don't know. All it means, see he's, this is just an astonishingly childish hermeneutic.

07:39

God saw what they did, and so he didn't destroy them.

07:46

What does that have to, oh, but it's the word works. And so I can transfer that lock, stock, and barrel into the

07:51

New Testament in any context I want to put it in, and create any theology I want out of that.

07:57

This is why you have to do serious hermeneutics, serious exegesis, and you've got to be consistent, or you end up with this kind of mess.

08:06

Category area, because every time you see the word work, you think it's a bad thing. I didn't say it's a bad thing, I said it's not part of salvation.

08:12

Yeah, we don't, our repentance doesn't save us. He said it did. He said to be saved, to repent of my sins.

08:18

No, he said God grants that. That's the

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IFB look when you start talking about how God is the one who grants gifts and accomplishes his things, like, huh, what, what are you talking about, no way, never even considered it.

08:36

You must change your mind to turn to Christ. So as a result of that repentance, you trust in Christ, not in your work.

08:46

So what does that have to do with stopping sinning? What does that have to do with turning from your sins? Perfect example, Jesus never ever sinned, sinless, right?

08:53

He never had to repent, correct? He never had to change his mind. Well, God repented 41 times in the

08:58

Bible. Well, I'm asking, did Jesus ever have to change his mind? They just really struggle with categories, don't they?

09:05

I mean, he's clearly talking about Jesus was sinless and never had to repent of sin.

09:11

Well, God repented 41 times in the Bible. And nacham, the Hebrew term that's translated there, does not mean, oh no,

09:20

I was doing evil, I will turn from that. And again, it's the idea, well, if it repents here, and remember what happened, you know, repent here means repent over there.

09:29

Remember what happened in the discussion we had? I keep pointing over there because it was right over there, in my office, and the whole thing came to an end, why?

09:43

Because he was doing this, and he does this in the responses to my book, by the way, too. He does this, well, the

09:50

King James says hell, and I recognize it's a different word, but as long as the King James says it, then you can just simply take whatever it means here and plug it in every place else.

10:00

And it's just so absurd. It's so acontextual. If anybody did that with his own words, he'd be angry, but that's what they do.

10:07

That's the only way you can cobble their theology together. He didn't have to change his mind, but he did change his action.

10:14

Like for example, when he's walking on the water, he would have passed by, but then they called out to him, and then he turned and went to them. That's repentance.

10:20

So my point is, he doesn't have to turn from sin to be pleasing to God.

10:26

I have to turn from sin to be pleasing to God. Does it please God to sin? But not to be saved? You don't have to turn from sin to be saved.

10:32

See, and again, the IFB folks do not understand that the term saved, it's only used a certain number of times in the

10:41

New Testament. And what they do is they take it as an overarching term instead of recognizing there's a difference between regeneration, justification, forgiveness, adoption, sanctification.

10:57

All these are specific aspects of the overarching act of salvation, some of which is instantaneous and some of which is ongoing.

11:07

That's why one of the things he goes after in response to the book is that I point this out. We'll be pointing out his errors in that one too, because he made a number of them.

11:16

But again, there's no in -depth hermeneutical process whatsoever.

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And they are taught, and he's one of the main people teaching it, to be afraid of anyone who suggests that you think these things through from another perspective, to recognize the differing categories and things like that, and to do serious exegesis.

11:40

If when God makes me a child of his, I look more like Christ, and Jesus never sinned.

11:46

That's my point. Am I wrong? I'm not interested in this conversation. You're not listening. I thought I was. This is my faith, you're teaching works. That's what

11:51

I'm asking. I thought I was listening to you. You guys are leading the works of salvation, and you know what? If you don't get off that, you're not saved.

11:57

But we don't have to. I fully trust what Christ did, not this thing of, oh, well, you know, God's going to change me, and then

12:03

I'm going to start doing all the right things, and that's why I'm saved, because I turned from my sin. That's a false doctrine. May I ask you another question, if you're willing?

12:09

I have other things to do. There are four million people in this city. Pick someone else to talk to. Share the gospel. Because I'm not interested.

12:15

This is not the gospel. This is a false gospel. That's what I'm trying to ask you. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.

12:22

That's the gospel. Your gospel is turn from sin, and you'll be saved. It's not true. Doesn't he have to die?

12:28

Look, this is the second time we're having this conversation. I'm not interested. You're here just filming me, because you want to use my...

12:35

Oh, really? That's why you have two cameras on me right now, because you're not here to film me. You're a liar. You have two cameras on me.

12:41

This isn't on. You're filming me. Are you filming me with this? You're not filming me? Yes, sir. Yeah, okay. You're here to film me. I didn't come to film you.

12:47

Because you want to use my YouTube channel to promote yourself. Okay? I don't have a

12:52

YouTube channel. You are wrong. Steven, I don't have a YouTube channel. Don't call me Steven. I don't have a YouTube channel. I'm not your friend.

12:57

I know you. You're probably not. Go away. I love you, though. Look, the Bible says... The Bible says a man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition, reject.

13:07

I have told you repeatedly that what you're teaching is a false doctrine, and I reject you. I'm trying to learn from you.

13:12

I'm trying to learn what you believe. You're trying to teach a false doctrine and make a video. I want you to leave me alone.

13:18

Okay. I'm on the phone. You've interrupted me four times. Have a good day. I'm doing my job. Have a good day. You've interrupted me four times.

13:25

I want to be left alone. There are four million people in this city. Go talk to someone else.

13:31

Okay? Hey, you are a damnable heretic preaching lies. Go preach your lies to someone else.

13:38

Preach your lies to someone else. I don't love heresy. I don't love false teaching.

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I don't love work salvation. Leave me alone. Why don't you leave me alone? I'm not here to quarrel with you.

13:49

I want to be left alone. Chris, let's go. Leave me alone. Do not talk to me again. I'm not following you.

13:54

You have come here three times, and I want to be left alone. All right.

14:01

I will never bless someone who preaches a false doctrine. Yeah, okay.

14:09

I don't know. What do you say? I mean, yeah, it's useful to point out the absurdities of the faith without repentance stuff and the man -centeredness of it all and how it ends up in a complete meltdown.

14:30

But then you've got, like I said, the Stephen Anderson, that's the

14:36

Stephen Anderson we see in the pulpit. That's Stephen Anderson we see firing people from his church staff and stuff like that.

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And that's not who shows up, at least in the videos so far. Here's a few times he gets condescendingly childish.

14:56

But in general, he's obviously trying to be different in the videos in response to the

15:03

King James only controversy. But, yeah, so what I was going to do was that I was going to go into finishing up Chapter 3, his response to Chapter 3, because I've already got half of Chapter 4 edited.

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But we'll get to it. We covered a lot, and we're already 10 minutes past where I was going to go anyway.