Melissa Etheridge and the Lesbian Family

2 Timothy 2 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Alpha and Omega Ministries presents the Dividing Line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all

Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence.

Your host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, you can call now by dialing 602 -274 -1360. That's 602 -274 -1360.

Or if you're out of the Metro Phoenix dialing area, it's 1 -888 -550 -1360.

That's 1 -888 -550 -1360. And now with today's topic, here's

James White. And good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's Rich Pierce sitting in for James White today.

Actually not completely sitting in. Here's a weird one. James was supposed to be on the

VIP line for us here, and I'm beginning to wonder if that's not him calling right back in.

We're going to have quite a slightly different setup today. And what that's going to be is

Dr. White is going to be on the telephone. He is in San Antonio today, and we're trying to get him back on the air.

And I'm looking at the phones, and they're all dark. But anyway, just a brief program note here a little bit.

Some of you have been trying to access our Internet website this week, and I want to just point out to you that we have had, on Monday afternoon, we got hit with a very rude awakening from our site provider.

And the whole story will be forthcoming later on, but there was a dispute as to who actually was our site provider.

And between the two services, they decided to just cancel our site altogether, between the two of them.

And our site basically got deleted, and we were not notified. So it was a very rude awakening for us to suddenly come to realize that, oh, my gosh, we don't have a website.

So those of you that have been looking for our website, it has come back online.

We are in the process of moving to another site provider so that we won't have this problem in the future, because they still can't seem to make up their minds.

And in the meantime, we're going to be moving everything over there.

Not everything is functioning yet, and so we're trying to get that back up and running.

But for the most part, the apologetics helps on the website, and the other items that you're used to seeing when you come to www .aomin

.org, those things are there. And the shopping cart program is still yet to get online, so if you're trying to order products from us at Alpha Omega Ministries, you can't do that.

It has been a very difficult week. But I understand we have Dr. James White back on the telephone, so I'm going to bring him back on the air now.

James, are you there? James, are you there? Hello, James.

Hello, James? I hear something in the background. Can he hear me? James? This is very strange.

I'm going to put Dr. White back on hold. Can he hear me? I can hear you now.

Oh, there we go. Hello. That's the first time I've heard anything at all. I thought you had decided to take over the whole program.

Okay. Well, we apparently had some technical difficulties in the studio there, and somebody hit a button and boom, we're talking to each other again.

So I'm very, very grateful that that happened, since I have a blank sheet of paper sitting in front of me.

That was going to be a long hour, huh? Yes, it was. It would have been a very long hour. But I took the advantage of filling a little time while you were out there playing musical phone lines and informed everybody about what's been going on with our website.

I didn't go into the long version of it or the sorted one, but I did let folks know that we're doing everything we can to get that back online for them.

So from here, what we're going to do is I'm going to be screening phone calls, and as the callers call in,

I'll kind of interject on the air here. here, that we have a caller from Phoenix or wherever, and let you know what their first name is, and you can chat with them.

And I'll just kind of work the phones here and hope that nothing more goes on. Well, as long as I can hear what's going on, that would help, because like I said,

I couldn't hear anything at all. Yeah, well, I think we've got everything repaired now. All righty, well, it's interesting that someone out there doesn't want us to discuss this particular subject.

I'm not sure who that would be, but somebody doesn't want us to address the subject that's probably going to surprise a few folks, and that is

I have in front of me the brand -new edition of Rolling Stone magazine.

Now, before anybody gets too excited, no, I do not generally pick up the current copy of Rolling Stone magazine, but it is my habit to catch the morning news programs as we're having breakfast and getting people ready for the various duties of the day.

And this past week, I watched with growing amazement an interview by Matt Lauer, or as Rush Limbaugh puts it,

Matt Lauer, and he had a little reporterette from Rolling Stone on the

Today show by the name of Jancy Dunn. And they were talking about the great secret of Melissa Etheridge, and I will admit

I am somewhat ignorant of the scene in rock and roll music. I had heard the name, and now that I've seen the face,

I've seen pictures of this person on television, whatever it might be. And it took me quite some time to figure out exactly what was being discussed.

I did not understand at first what was being talked about, but Matt Lauer was asking

Jancy Dunn about a new article that had just appeared in the newest edition of Rolling Stone that she had written, and it was about Melissa Etheridge's children.

And I thought, okay, we all know that Hollywood is a rather strange place, so what are they talking about?

And well, the great mystery over who the children's father was. All right,

I guess that's been going on for a long, long time. And I started to realize there was something more going on here, there was something more that was being said that I didn't really quite fully understand, until finally it struck me that what they were saying is that Melissa Etheridge is gay, and in fact she lives very openly with a woman named

Julie Cipher. So this is a lesbian couple, Melissa Etheridge and Julie Cipher, and they have children.

And I couldn't tell, I assumed from the interview that Melissa Etheridge was the one who gave birth to the children, but I discovered by reading the article that it was not

Melissa Etheridge, it was Julie Cipher who gave birth to two children so far, a boy and a girl.

The girl is about three years old, and the boy is about a year old now. And I guess it has been a big mystery as to who the biological father was, since they're both lesbians, and this was done by artificial insemination.

Well, I'm sitting here and getting iller and iller, if iller is a word, more and more ill,

I guess is the way to put it, all the time, amazed at what is being said, and become even more amazed when they announce that the father of these two children of a lesbian couple is, in fact,

David Crosby of Crosby, Stills, and Nash, and that he's 58 years of age, a well -known rocker from a previous generation.

And what truly blew me away as I sat here listening to this is that I could not help but recall only a year ago, when the

Matthew Shepard incident took place, that you had all of these folks from the liberal media talking about how morally outrageous the

Christian people are, and how Christian people are responsible for this killing of Matthew Shepard, and all the rest of the stuff, because of their hate speech and everything else.

But the entire discussion with this Jancy Dunn, Matt Lauer does not say a word about morality, about right or wrong, in fact, the whole idea is, isn't this wonderful?

I mean, David Crosby's a musician, and Melissa Etheridge is a musician, and isn't it wonderful that this new type of family is developing?

And I could not believe my eyes and my ears. It was really an incredible example of what is going on in our society, and so thankfully just today some friends of mine picked up the

Rolling Stone magazine for me, all of the places I had gone had the earlier edition, the January edition, this is the

February edition, and the article is entitled, The Name of the Father and the

Making of a New American Family. The Name of the

Father and the Making of a New American Family. Here is the picture of the new

American family, in fact, right next to this is a big, it takes over a full page, one half of a page and part of the next page, picture of Melissa Etheridge, David Crosby, Julie Seifer, and then

David Crosby's wife, named Jan Crosby. David Crosby is married, even while he is providing the raw materials for babies with lesbian couples.

What a wonderful, wonderful picture of an American family.

And the more I read in the article, the more absolutely amazed I became at the obvious fact that it is the specific purpose of these individuals to promote the idea that this is absolutely, positively normal, and in fact it is a sign of a society growing, not a society decaying.

The decay of society from their perspective would have been really not, society can't decay, the dark ages would have been back in the day of father and mother and Christian values and so on and so forth, but society from their perspective is growing and getting better.

Just a few things from the article here to give you an idea, in the second page there is a full color picture of the lesbian couple cuddling together, it's truly exciting, and then you have, for example, the question was asked, well, why reveal this now?

It's been three years, the daughter is almost three years old now. And one of the things it said is, keeping this big secret goes against how we are choosing to live our lives, very openly.

They are very openly lesbians and they want to prove to everyone else that this is something that's wonderful.

Besides that, Bailey, the three -year -old daughter, was starting to ask, was starting to ask, do

I have a daddy? In fact, later on it says, four or five months ago, when she was two and a half,

Bailey said, do I have a daddy? I said, well, yes you do, pause, well, who is he?

I said, you know our friend David with the funny mustache? Satisfied, Bailey moved on to the next subject and relieved, so did

Cipher. That is what it says in the article. So here you have a little three -year -old asking, do

I have a daddy? All through the article it talks about her mothers, it describes both women as the mothers of this child.

So here you have a child who has to recognize that, you know what, everybody else has a mommy and a daddy, and I have two mommies, so do

I have a daddy and two mommies? What incredible depravity, what an incredible, we hear in our society all the time these days about, oh, let's do this for the children, we need to do this for the children.

Well, what about the children here? Where is the absolute moral outrage at the way that these children are being treated?

Oh, they've got everything, they have loving parents, in fact, at the end of the entire article

Etheridge says the following, I know that because of the procreation of our species that it was man and woman, and that's the way it was all built, she says, but two loving parents, that's all a kid needs, two men, two women, a man, a woman, whatever, it's amazing what loving parents can do.

Cypher and Etheridge are hopeful that when their children grow up they will not be made to feel different, society is growing by leaps and bounds, says

Cypher, in both the gay thing and also having children without the traditional mother and father role.

There are single women going to sperm banks, lesbians going to sperm banks, gay guys going to surrogates, and this is the growth of society.

Make sure you understand that from these folks' perspective, this is the growth of society.

What kind of parenting then is such a new American family, the 21st century

American family going to provide? Well, while they're showing the reporterette from Rolling Stone through their home, we read this.

As for the dog photos, quote, Bruce Springsteen once gave me the best parenting advice, says

Cypher. He said, you know, all of a sudden your dogs are just going to be dogs, end quote.

Yeah, I want my kids raised by someone who depends upon Bruce Springsteen for parenting advice, and I am really impressed with someone who thinks that Bruce Springsteen can give parenting advice, and you wonder what the next generation is going to be like when this kind of thing is considered to be normative?

It's incredible. They even described how it was that they got together with David Crosby and this issue came up, and they said as the group chattered, the subject of children came up, and Etheridge and Cypher mentioned their dilemma.

Listen to this. Eggs they had, sperm was another matter. People don't realize why it's so important to view that we are creatures of God, that we are his creation, that he has a right to tell us what is right and wrong behavior.

People don't understand why the evolution issue is so vitally important, and why it is that people,

Christian people, have been saying for generations now that when you have a society that is constantly exposed to the humanistic perspective that reduces man to a mere animal, that that society cannot long last.

Now you see, here is a glaring example. You see children are just the result of egg and sperm, nothing more.

There's nothing about family. There's nothing about the special relationship that exists between a husband and a wife and their children, the roles of father and mother, or anything like that.

This is simply a matter of biology, and for some reason they decided that they wanted to have little chillens, and so now that we have the technology to do it, they just decide to go out and do it, and show how wonderful it is.

It is absolutely incredible. A few questions were asked of them. For example, what do the kids call you?

Etheridge says, I am Mama, Julie is Mamo. Mama and Mamo. That's what they've got.

And then I found out that it was Cypher that had the baby, and it was decided that she should carry the babies because of Etheridge's work.

She has to be out there singing for three hours a night in these concerts. I was more the homebody, so to speak,

Cypher says, and I'm a health nut, a fanatic, so I was really good at making babies. Isn't that wonderful?

They do talk about those who sometimes have a hard time wrapping their head around the fact that this can work.

I guess that's another way of saying that if you just understood it, you'd agree with it and accept it. The idea that it is morally, utterly disgusting is not even mentioned.

They ask about their family and friends. Oh, they think it's just, they're cool about it.

Their grandkids, says Cypher with a laugh, they don't care how they get them. They just want them. My goodness.

Well, you even talk about David Crosby in this particular situation and things that he says.

Unfortunately, I have to delete about every fourth word of his language. In talking about him, he's 58 years old.

He's already had a liver transplant to save his life because he fried the first one. It says

Patriot Crosby now heads up a clan that includes Django IV, a granddaughter who is two months, a daughter who is 24, and a son now 35, whom

Crosby knew nothing about until 1994. There is the paragon of virtue.

Then when he talks about Melissa and Julie, the lesbian couple, he says, nice set of values.

They're funnier than bleep, and they've got courage. All rare stuff. You could see that they were in love with each other, and they said something like, when you start talking about egg donors or adoption or sperm donors, somebody very often goes, oh, lesbians, wait a minute, let me back up.

And they start to get weird. They start to get weird. So in other words, believing that children deserve to have a father and a mother is starting to get weird.

The whole thing is very, very weird. Crosby was also happy to oblige so that, true to his roots, listen to this, he could affect social change.

He could affect social change. Going to quoting Crosby, it says, you've got two powerful women, immensely bright, immensely capable, with every resource at their command.

And it was as hard as it was for them, says Crosby. Then imagine lonely, frustrated people out there in the world with no resources, no one to help them, afraid to lose their job if they even admit they're gay, let alone that they want to have a gay family.

Maybe it's a good thing for a lot of straight families to see that this is not something strange.

He smiles. I think everyone will understand, except maybe the

Christian coalition in the far right wing. But I mean, I always wanted to be on the Nixon enemies list, and I missed it.

So if I bleep off these people, it's fine with me. He and Jan cackle at the thought.

Why has he done this? Why has he done this? Well, he says it's so he can affect social change.

No, he's done this to express his absolute hatred of God and God's moral law.

That's why he's done this. Which is also, sadly, why Etheridge and Cipher have done the same thing.

Crosby says, now I want to try very hard to be a good human being. For a lot of reasons.

He motions toward Bailey, the little boy. If, you know, in due time, at a distance, they're proud of who their genetic dad is, that's great.

Not that Crosby isn't a proud, well, bio -papa. You know how an artist's art is a window into their soul, he says?

Well, people's kids are a window into theirs. He glances at the kids. Look at them. Are they happy?

Healthy? Do they live in a great home? He throws up his hands. I rest my bleepin' case, he huffs.

Ah, yes. Deep, deep thought from David Crosby in regards to this particular issue.

Julie Cipher, interestingly enough, 35, filmmaker, was once the wife of Lou Diamond Phillips.

And has this brilliant thought about herself. She says, I'm more than just the golden uterus, you know, she says, raising an eyebrow.

She's also busily teaching Bailey how to meditate. Nothing like mixing in a little

Eastern religion for the fun of it in the process. It is an incredible thing.

And I've only looked at a portion of what I marked that I could share. The making of a new

American family. Two lesbians. A man married to another woman who becomes the father of the children born by one of the two lesbians.

And people tell us that, well, you know, you Christians are out of touch. You Christians don't have anything to say to the world anymore.

And yet, does not the scripture directly address every one of these issues?

We see around us the most incredible examples of depravity. And folks, you've got to realize something.

Sodom and Gomorrah didn't go south overnight. Those nations, those city -states actually, did not become a stench in the nostril of God over the course of a day, or a week, or a month.

They became a stench in the nostril of God because over time, worsening and worsening behavior was accepted as the norm.

And when you see these things, and you see them again, and then again, and it's pushed in your face over and over and over again, eventually, the conscience becomes burned.

It's burned out. Scabbed over. And we no longer see the depravity of this kind of behavior.

That's where our society is going in the 21st century. And yet, in the 1st century, we were told very, very clearly that this is the mark of depravity.

There is the description in scripture of women who exchange the natural function for that which is unnatural.

That's lesbianism. And all sorts of other sins which end in Romans 1 .32

with these words. And although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

That's what's going on here. It is the desire of the enemies of our culture, and they are, in fact, the enemies of God as well.

Our culture isn't God. I mean, our culture is obviously not a godly culture today, and the issue is not so much our culture as it is

God's law that at least initially had a great impact on the forming of our nation and our culture.

But these folks want to change our culture because they hate the influence that God's law has always had.

They hate the fact that the American society was built upon a family.

A father, a mother, and the foundation that is provided there. They want to change that.

And they are doing so using the millions of dollars that is available to them as entertainers, the almost unlimited resources of the media, and everything else.

Well, I'd like to hear from you what you have to say. I'm not sure if I'll be able to hear you, but we can take a shot at it. 1 -888 -550 -1360

And I'm just going to take, I believe it's 602 -274 -1360. I believe it's the proper phone number there.

Why don't you get online and talk to me? I'm coming live today from San Antonio, Texas.

I'm ministering the Word of God here. I'm going to be speaking on Mormonism this evening. I spoke on Oneness Pentecostalism last night, their denial of the

Trinity. And then I'll be ministering on the Lord's Day both in Sunday School and both services, morning and evening services.

So I'm keeping busy out here, but joining with you by phone along with Rich Pierce. So why don't you give us a call and get online.

We're going to take a brief break and be right back. And we're back with the Dividing Line today.

James White is ministering to us from San Antonio, Texas. He is on our VIP line.

My name is Rich Pierce and I'm sitting in studio for James kind of working all the buttons and the phones and the whole nine yards.

And James, I just want to let you know as a programming note that we did start a couple minutes late on the show today.

And so it's 2 .33 now and we're going to go to 3 sharp ending your comments today.

So is that okay with you? Works for me. Okay, and we do have Martin from England on line one if you'd like to get started or if you have more to say, go ahead.

Sure, let's talk to Martin. Martin in England, are you there? I am. How are you today?

I'm very well indeed. Happy New Year. You too. I've only kind of caught up the last couple of minutes of the show.

I've been trying to get it online, but I've got some problems. Now I understand you're talking about homosexuality and things like that.

Well, especially the fact that, and I know this is the same over there if not even worse, the blatant promotion of it not only as an acceptable lifestyle, but in reality when you read between the lines of a current article in the

Rolling Stone magazine concerning Melissa Etheridge and her lesbian lover having children via artificial insemination from David Crosby, you really have the promotion of this as a better way.

In fact, I didn't read through the section where they described how wonderful it is to have two mothers with the children and how they work together with such harmony.

Isn't it just wonderful to have these two women that can handle all these things and really, who needs a father anyways?

Obviously, it is what is being promoted not only in this way, but also in the psychological magazines and things like that, is that there is no role for a father.

The father is pretty much just there to get the ball rolling. He's genetically required, but he doesn't have to be a part of the children's life whatsoever.

And of course, it is the father's role to inculcate spiritual discipline within the family, so on and so forth.

This is clearly a part of the entire agenda to destroy the biblical family and to bring tremendous pain upon the children of such, quote -unquote, unions as these.

Yes, and over in England, there was a recent controversy where two men, homosexual men, went over to America, and they've now adopted a child or some twins, and it was raging in the papers as to whether or not it was right.

And most papers are coming down saying, well, of course it's right, there can't be anything wrong with that. It's amazing the development, as you say, the speed in which things are developing, especially over here.

I mean, there was recently a law passed to allow homosexuals in the army. I heard about that just today,

I think it was because of the European Union or something along those lines? Something to do with that, James, yes.

I was in the car the other day and on the radio, I mean, I was shocked, but you couldn't get your head around the fact that my wife and I stopped listening to it.

They've now started a law passed over in England for a homosexual airline. A homosexual airline?

Airline, yes. Oh, my goodness. Their idea was that most or a lot of airlines sanctioned the same -sex relationships on the plane, but this one's going to openly celebrate them apparently on various flights.

I can't imagine quite how that's going to happen, but, you know, but it's... I mean, the way things are over here, it is quite amazing the acceptance and the almost...

the blatant promotion on most TV programs. I mean, even your basic soaps we have on that's, you know, well before the watershed, it's like, you know, well, homosexuality is part of everyone's life and everyone knows they're homosexual, don't you know, that sort of thing?

And you're thinking, oh, no, that's not the case. I was having a, what shall we say, a conversation with somebody in the office about a month ago about homosexuality and he was basically saying, oh, he didn't see anything wrong with it and I was saying, well, you know, there is some basic problems even if you don't want to touch sort of a religious viewpoint on them and I still see some social problems with it and he thinks the worst thing is what he calls religious bigots.

Yeah. Homosexuality. There's nothing more true than the fact that in the prevailing media and in the social viewpoints of Western civilization today, it is far worse to say this is the right behavior and that's the wrong behavior than it is to be a lesbian who becomes artificially inseminated to have children.

That is acceptable. No issues of morality are brought up there but if Jerry Falwell ends up on the

Today program, every sin and terrible hate crime of the entire society is laid at his feet.

It is, it is, it's not even a culture war. The opposing side has taken over the entirety of the of the communication facilities with a few exceptions and they're not engaging in any type of meaningful battle.

They're just simply using blanket bombing techniques based upon lies and are being very effective in basically dumbing down the people in the society to where people do not think for themselves anymore.

They just accept the prevailing notions and incorporate them into their own thinking. Well, it's interesting in this debate and it sort of braids throughout the other people in the office who kind of got involved was

I actually tried to pin this guy down on well are there objective moral values and he said well no there aren't and I raised issues like well what about somebody who is a psychopath

I mean are they morally wrong and he said well no I can't say that it's wrong to be a killer and I said well then following your line of example then you say that you think that anyone who has a religious viewpoint is a bigot and they're morally wrong but according to your viewpoint somebody who went out and persecuted homosexuals you can't condemn them because there is no objective moral value and he said well

I don't know and it was an interesting debate because I mean he came away with it still very hard line on his position but other people in the office who heard the debate said you know

I can't see where he's coming from he has to admit that somewhere on the line yes that he's an objective moral value and it was quite a worthwhile debate not to me he went to the wall a very hard line but other people saw through his what he was saying and came away thinking gosh yeah there are there have to be objective moral values so he's worthwhile in that well if society is going to continue there has to be but obviously in western civilization right now there is a incredible push on to free ourselves of all such objective moral values because the only meaningful place from which they can derive be derived is from viewing man as a special creation of God and that in essence

God created the rule book God created the owner's manual God knows what's best for us and since man as a totally depraved creature is in rebellion against God is suppressing that knowledge then they want to run as far away as they possibly can it's not the first time this has happened anyone who knows history knows that the

Roman Empire was infected with the same type of utter moral depravity and if we haven't learned the lesson of history the

Roman Empire doesn't exist today it fell it collapsed from the inside and that's what's going to happen it just things happen so much faster in the modern era because of our ability to communicate that it can happen a whole lot faster than it took the four or five centuries for Rome to fall so we're heading the exact same direction and it's scary to be honest to watch the news and to watch the

TV and to see what's on there I mean I would say over in England homosexuality is just like such a common day thing or it's supposed to be it's scary and disgusting well we need to realize the

Christians who believe these things who believe the scriptures and who are willing to speak out and to speak the truth are going to be a persecuted minority and that is not that far in the future it's going to happen be ready for it and it will change the face of Christianity to be sure and it will you know we have to draw a dividing line no pun intended and to demonstrate that those who call themselves

Christians but are unwilling to be Christian in their thinking and their attitudes are not Christians they do not believe in the scriptures and we need to start having the willingness to point those folks and say no we have no fellowship with them they do not believe what

I believe and going from there so well anyway thanks for your call today Martin thanks

James alright God bless God bless bye bye well it's I tell you this particular subject is continues to be absolutely amazing to me as I said it was the most amazing interview

I had ever seen the article only exacerbated that it even made it worse because the statements that were made in there but I think

Christians need to wake up and realize that really in essence the battle took place a long time ago the

Christian church was not prepared to to stand up and to fight the way that it should have in fact

I was just reading a little a little book here at the home where I'm staying noticing a little section that had come out from the

United Methodist back in the 1970's there was just the most incredibly idiotic statements about Jezebel being a wonderful role model in the

Bible and it's no wonder when you have your mainline denominations quote unquote mainline denominations

I would not identify United Methodist as mainline anymore making such absurd statements thirty years ago it's hardly very surprising that given that total lack of ability to interpret scripture and to obey scripture that today these folks would be in the forefront of promoting the most godless and anti -Christian ways of thinking and of living that shouldn't surprise us at all but we still have a battle to fight within our own families we need to be teaching our children that they are going to be living in a society where their beliefs what they hold precious will be mocked just as these individuals who are now gaining the ascendancy once claimed to be the minority once claimed to those minority rights and you people shouldn't be persecuting us they will turn around and they're the ones doing the persecution they're the ones doing the attacks and that is always the way that it works and that's only going to continue in the future and really it's going to have a tremendous impact upon the church because every

Christian will have to make the decision what do I really believe and how strongly do

I really believe it and the professing church the church where there is true professional faith in Christ I think is going to be a much more easily defined group in the future when it costs you and it costs you greatly to be a part of it 602 -274 -1360 1 -888 -550 -1360 we're going to take a break right now and be right back and we're back on the dividing line today

Dr. White is in Sacramento he's in San Antonio Texas goodness you know you move around so much it's hard to keep up with you

I know and I'm not sure what's going to happen next week when I'm out on Long Island because I don't even know what my schedule is yet sometime during that trip

I'm going to be out in the woods in Pennsylvania with a youth group and I really doubt I'm going to be able to get to a phone if that's on a

Saturday so I don't even know if that's first or second or whatever it is in the order of things but we'll find out soon enough

I should mention Rich before you run off that our listeners may have listened last summer to the nine part series that we did in response to Dr.

Norman Geisler's book Chosen but Free and I mentioned at that time that I would be writing a response entitled

The Potter's Freedom and yesterday afternoon I completed that work so it will be turned into the publisher here very quickly and I believe they will be able to be producing that work fairly quickly as well so once the website is back

I would advise everyone and of course we'll announce it on the program as well when the book is available

Dr. Geisler's book came out in June of last year and I think it will be less than a year before my response will be published from that point in time and the work is exactly 300 pages long as it is typed at the moment

I'm not sure if that's going to that's not including such things as everything that comes at the beginning indexes so on and so forth so it's probably going to be around 320 pages or so but those that are interested in that particular subject

I think will find the book to be very useful I'm really excited about it but I must press on for I have another book due in June and so I'm writing as fast as my little fingers will type away on the keyboard those of us who have seen you type and we know that you can actually type faster than we can read what you're typing know that you will do a great job on it well but the problem is you've got to do some research before you can type that fast that's very true that's coming up here over the next number of weeks we'll be working on that but the

Potter's Freedom should be out from Calvary Press I'm hoping as early as mid -April I'm certain that it'll be out in time for the trip that we take back to Long Island in May I'll be debating

Robert and Janice on May 18th on Justification by Faith and then if people are sort of making plans as far as summer vacations go things like that two things to keep in mind would be first July 7th

I believe is the date that we've firmed up now in the evening it's a Friday evening as I recall that's correct for a debate with Timothy Staples Tim Staples is a former

Protestant who is a Catholic Apologist in Joseph's Catholic Communications I believe is the specific name and they also represent

Mitchell Pacwa and Scott Hahn and others and we haven't gotten the topic nailed down yet unless that has changed since I left well we'll talk about it when you get back okay but we will be debating in I believe it will be at the same facility in Fullerton yes okay in Fullerton California there is a very large ornate high school auditorium there and I've never seen a high school auditorium that big myself but I went to a small high school

I guess that's probably why but anyways we'll be debating on a Friday night over there in LA and that's really not too far away for folks so if you're scheduling vacation time you might want to think about that and I suppose it would be good we don't again have the webpage up to let anybody take a look at it but if people are scheduling this far down the road we and proclaiming the gospel ministries with Mike Gendron are putting together have already put together a cruise in October of this year the 15th the 22nd of October I did it for the first time last year it was incredibly enjoyable far more than I ever thought it would be

I'll be debating a Catholic down there in Clearwater Florida the week before we go on the cruise and then on the cruise the whole subject will be the inspiration inerrancy interpretation transmission and canonization of the

Bible so myself Mike Gendron a professor from Dr.

Thomas from Master Seminary and I think it's Dr. Morrell from Dallas Seminary an

Old Testament scholar we'll all be on the cruise and there'll be seminars and things like that on the boat we're taking the

Carnival Paradise it's the only non -smoking cruise ship in the world it's

I think about 72 75 ,000 tons and it's a seven day cruise and we'll have information on that on the website as soon as we are able to have any information on the website at all so that's coming up as well so as folks are scheduling things down the road they might want to keep those things in mind because they'll be real interesting for folks who are interested in the type of topics that we address well

I anticipate having the website back online no later than Monday all the changes are in the net right now so we should have normal operation by Monday just a little bit of a shifting of gears for you here

Daryl is calling from Sacramento and he is wanting to ask about a comment that you made last week regarding promise keepers

I think he wants to make sure that if he's going to quote you he wants to make sure he's got it right Daryl Hi Mr.

White how are you doing? Hi doing great you were saying something about last week that promise keepers is inviting

Mormon missionaries or was it Mormon speakers actually what

I said was I just received a copy of a Salt Lake City Tribune article that was forwarded to me by Paul Cardin and it was talking about what promise keepers had done in their meetings up in Utah and that they had specifically contacted the local

LDS churches they had recruited for people to attend their meetings from the

LDS churches and this was a change a reversal from the viewpoint that promise keepers had before where they in essence at least tried to keep a commitment to the

Nicene Creed as some sort of a benchmark shall we say to my knowledge they have not had

LDS speakers or have invited LDS missionaries to in some way participate but they have up there in the promise the ward chapels themselves and invite

LDS people to participate in the promise keepers meetings ok well thank you very much you're most welcome ok have a great week thank you and James it sounds like the

Sacramento authorities have discovered where you're at I don't know

I've had this head cold this week so I'm a little out of kilter here and they were going after Darrell not after me that's true ok it's hard to tell the difference that was the police arriving at his home well we have another caller on the line and guess who it is

James no program could be complete let me guess Dennis from Tempe actually he's in Phoenix I know

I'm not moved how you doing Dennis great oh mercy me how's

Texas well you know we've been having a good time here we spoke the first night on the

Marian movement and then the last night on Oneness Theology tonight on Mormonism and I'm afraid that someone tomorrow is going to ask me a question about eschatology which really has me very nervous because I really don't know anything about that but going real well and then next week head out to New York so it's a pretty busy period of time here so I'm happy smiley rosy and I saw this doesn't totally blow me away

I mean in the sense of yeah I know this is going on when these things come up I tend to think just to keep my head straight well let's think of the first century both the culture in general and the church itself which was by no means perfect if you ever read 1st and 2nd

Corinthians and think well it's kind of the same old thing we may not be as pure in the church at this point but it's not like the totally new thing that we've never had to deal with before in the church and we just have to stand up for the truth and well it's true

I mean obviously the church has faced this very issue in the past and I've been teaching on church history in the

Sunday school class at Phoenix Reformed and one of the things that we noted as we read some of the most primitive writings was their constant emphasis upon morality the constant emphasis upon the fact they would not expose their children would not participate in abortions this type of thing and so certainly

Christians have always existed in societies that were morally depraved but here you have a situation where a society that was based upon the concepts that do derive from an acknowledgment of God's law based upon a view of mankind that sees him as a creature of God a creation of God morally accountable to God's law morally accountable to one another to see that type of a society openly embracing the utter negation of its foundations cannot help but cause us to realize that the tremendous blessings of we have in this nation in comparison to people all across the world can disappear very quickly when the social fabric becomes shredded and no longer stable well how quick did the golden calf come up after God entered from Spina?

oh yeah not very long at all but God brought immediate judgment in that situation and what type of form or format would judgment take in our own nation?

Christians need to realize that when we stand up and speak on these things if we say it's morally wrong then what do we have to give in its place?

why do we believe that the role of the father is so important? why do we believe these things?

well it forces us to go back to the fact that God's our creator and God has the right to tell us what's right and wrong and if we go against his will we're going against the manufacturer's specifications in essence and it's you know like I said earlier we do everything for the children except do what's best for the children no one you know

Matt Lauer ain't going to bring up the issue and say hey what about the children here? don't you think there's something wrong about a three year old little girl having to come up to one of her quote unquote mommies and say do

I have a daddy? I mean this is normative? this is healthy? this is good?

of course not it is the only child that should ever have to ask a question like that is an orphan is one who's lost one of those parents and maybe has to go to the surviving parent ok well the church is supposed to take care of folks like that I mean there's all sorts of discussion in the bible taking care of widows and orphans but here's a situation where you're making that situation come about simply by your unwillingness to obey

God's law it's an incredible thing and someone needs to call these folks to repent according to my watch we're getting pretty close to it we know there's a

God from nature and as well as the inward testimony that God gives to all people and as far as same sex sex and all that nature itself shows that the parts don't go together nature shows it and the image of God shows that tells us but there are people who simply are running from the truth of God and suppressing that truth well we're out of time today gentlemen well thank you much thanks a lot for your call today

Dennis and James we'll be in touch with you and we are done with the dividing line for today we'll see you next week the dividing line is a presentation of alpha and omega ministries you can contact us at 602 -973 -0318 or you can write us at PO Box 37106

Phoenix Arizona 85069 we are easy to find on the world wide web at www .aomin

.org that's www .aomin .org you can also find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates and tracks on our website join us again next