Doug Wilson and Dusty Deevers Try to Convince Keith to be PostMil

All right, everybody welcome back to your Calvinist podcast My name is Keith Foskey and as always

I am your Calvinist and I have today with me two gentlemen You are he is the

Calvinist. I'm sitting here with I am the Harbor Freight Doug Wilson It says it on my name tag.

You know, it's funny. They didn't even ask I said, hey Can you put Harbor Freight Doug the guy looked at me goes? Yes, I can

It was like wasn't even an option So and I'm here with Dusty Devers and I'm so grateful to be able to say that these two men

I was able to best in the cigar competition. So did you even know that I didn't you didn't know we were competing

There was a Twitter competition who is a favorite cigar smoking podcaster and I was up against you in the first round I was like, there's no way

I'm gonna win, but I'm gonna definitely try And I won congrats, but I have no reason why other than in that moment

God knew I needed cigars more than you did. Okay. I think we all know why you won You posted about 50 to a hundred times with each one of those

Races and I felt like it was worse. It was a politically charged environment that I've never been in Hey, I'm not gonna lie because he was the he was hard because you didn't even try and I still barely beat you and with him

I was really like and he would post and he's like and and and and and Joel with Joel and a bunch of Other guys like yeah, you're the best, you know, like go after Okay.

So anyway, I want to ask you guys to do something for me Because you neither one have been on the podcast before you're both post millennial, right?

Yeah, is that correct? I'm an on millennial You know this because here We had our discussion

I'm gonna give you both an opportunity to win me over to your to the post millennial position

Tell me your best argument for post millennialism now I'm not saying I'm gonna move because I got a church to answer to I'll go first and then

Doug can give a better answer You'll be post mill eventually Yeah, well and Billy Graham will be a

Calvinist while he is now so Okay best argument that's it that's

It's coming. I don't think I'm gonna convince you right now Okay, maybe Doug will so here let's talk about definitions and terms.

Yes, sir So in the early church, but in the time of Athanasius and whatnot, the the police the positions had not solidified there was a historic pre -mill position that Justin Martyr had but it's hard to tell

Augustine and Athanasius at times sound post mill and Triumphal.

Yeah, but it would be anachronistic to project our defined positions back on them.

Yeah, right. So The the positions that we have the current dispensational pre -mill the

Historic pre -mill the Amil and the post mill are all modern systematic

Adaptations of the biblical and historical David. Yeah. All right So consequently, there's a lot of guys who say

I'm optimistic Amil and I say, yeah. Well, that's postponed Right.

Hey, you said I was a grumpy post mill. I don't know if you remember Yeah, grumpy grumpy post mill.

He I said he was a he was a fancy Amil and he said I was grumpy postman, right? So so for example

Spurgeon was pre -mill, but he was optimistic pre -mill So most dispensate dispensational pre -mills have to be pessimistic about the future course of human history

That's baked into the system. Yeah, it's it's So all Christian positions are optimistic with regard to heaven and hell

The good guys win at the end all Christians are optimistic in that sense, but dispensationalists are historically pessimistic

But pre -millennialists are not necessarily So Spurgeon was optimistic pre -mill, right and they're optimistic

Amil guys There's a book Israel in the New Covenant by Roderick Campbell He's Amil which

I read when when I was becoming post mill and he was a big big help to me

Becoming post mill and I didn't realize until years later that he was Amil so so I'm not interested in arguing with people about the train schedules of Eschatology if you believe that the kingdom of God has a future in this world

That is victorious that includes discipling the nations and you fit it into an

Amil framework I don't care. I don't even care if you fit it into a pre -mill framework like like Spurgeon did

But what I care about is the what's the use we can't do anything because it's all going to blazes.

So Which is what the dispensationalists inculcate and the pessimistic

Amils do. Yeah, right there there is a there's a gloomy kind of Amillennialism that I think pulls the nerve of Aggressive gospel preaching and evangelism and missions

So if I could borrow from the late great Gary North He said there's basically two positions pessimillennialism and optimal animals

Yeah, and I'm an optimist Well, that's awesome And so now you are too.

Well, I I've said there was a you know, there was a lot more agreement than disagreement

That's why we didn't have a three -hour debate We had a 30 -minute conversation and and James White tells me all the time when

I talked to him Oh, yeah, when you got owned by by Doug, I was like Yeah, but it's

Doug. I mean getting owned by Doug. It's like getting beat up by Mike Tyson. It's not a big deal It's not a huge deal

Dusty I want to ask you a question to go along with this because I do want to get you in here When it comes to the idea of what things you're most optimistic about You're in politics you're looking at the world from a different lens than most of us because you're face -to -face with people who are

Making decisions that are making changes that are going to affect people's lives There's a lot of things I'm pessimistic about in the very near future

We don't know what's gonna happen a week from now We don't know who's gonna be the president God knows and he's still gonna be on his throne on Wednesday That's the title of my sermon tomorrow.

God will still be on his throne Wednesday No matter who is in the in the White House, but what's something you are

Optimistic about in in the in the future, Oklahoma. Yeah, so in the short term,

I'll give you a short term Long term, maybe a short mid long. Yep network in the short term.

I'm optimistic that One of them one of the moves that we see around our nation is

In young men, they're they're reacting against the line of the

Bill of Goods It's been sold to them through these various Fatalistic philosophies

Doug talked about them. I talked to talked about them in my message yesterday They've been told that if they just had autonomy through You know shirking off the bill the

God's order then they will have the future that they want But these young men are seeing look what that led to is transing kids.

It led to Men and women's sports and in their and in locker rooms and restrooms

It's led to killing off kids. It's led to Destroying our future and and they're looking for something else and we see them

Really latching on to to men who will just act like a father figure to them

Whether it's Jordan Peterson or or even Joe Rogan even Joe Rogan Andrew Tate and MMA culture

It's got something there of order and they recognize deep Embedded in them because they have a conscience and because the law was written on their heart that they

That everything they've been sold through these various philosophies Are are bankrupt and they're suicidal.

There's Society societal suicide. Yeah, and they they want something else

And so what we're seeing in in the voting of these younger people is that they're far more based

They're conservative. They're they're calling for people to have a backbone in a spine And what that means is there is a huge open door in this in this

Power vacuum for Christians to step in and say, you know what? It's not about my power It's about the power of Christ and he has all the answers

So I think in the short term we're seeing that in in polling data. We're seeing that in voting data

We're seeing that across the states in Groups like the Freedom Caucus ran a hundred they had a hundred six candidates who won out of a hundred and twelve or a hundred fifteen and The Freedom Caucus is kind of the most real right, you know of all the groups that run

So it's massive win massive upheaval in a lot of states where you're seeing grassroots

Candidates who are actually running and winning I was able to to really consult a whole lot of those and we're seeing a bunch of seats flipped in numerous states

That's in the short term and and no matter what happens on on Tuesday in the short term

I I do believe that people are getting very frustrated with the zeitgeist and they're there look that that can lead in a lot of different directions some very dangerous directions, but What it tells me is that of all times there is a huge opportunity

For Christians who apply the authority of Christ and the Word of God to all spheres and don't say well

There's this social distancing between the Word of God It only applies in the church and it doesn't apply in the civil sphere

In the midterm the the optimism is and and I guess this is long term as well

We are going to see more and more Christians running for office. I Don't think that that what?

Me running for office and being so Strongly outspoken on Christian values and principles is an anomaly.

I think it's it's I've taken Numerous calls from guys who are running. We're going to see that happen on a political level long -term

Isaiah 9 of the of the Increase of the peace of his government and of the increase of his government

There will be no in the zeal. The Lord host is going to do this. That's that's that postmill future and One of the other things is at any point whether it's short mid or long term

God can bring revival and he has his ways and means of Drawing worship out of the hearts of people and we know that sometimes that through suffering

Sometimes it can be through what's perceived as great wealth and that we have indulgence and that's where we've been largely

That our indulgence has left us Recognizing that even when we had everything we could it was still vacuous

So God can bring revival at any point and he's proven it and in history and I believe that more and more people are recognizing that we were getting some of the leaders that we deserve and what we deserve right now is a measure of judgment for the various Withdrawals of the church and men are starting to speak into those and I think

Pastor Wilson is one of the guys who's at the very forefront of this Especially not just with the the classical homeschool the classical school and homeschooling movement

But also since 2020 God really pushed forward the the reality that we had forsaken the faith of our forefathers

They had given us so much we had forsaken it and we're reclaiming a lot of what was already there and I just see

Bright hope for tomorrow, you know, amen. Amen. Amen Well brothers. Thank you.

I know you've got other shows to get to I want to thank you both for being here Last question Doug. What's the address of the Antichrist so I can let our people know?

Devil's way Well, thank you both brothers for being on one thank you guys for watching again

If you like this video hit the thumbs up button. If you didn't hit the thumbs down button twice Thank you for listening to your