Classic: Pradeep Tilak Interview (Part 3)

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the apostle Paul said, but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Pradeep Tilak’s Background and Pulpit Supply Ministry

Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. Pradeep is in the studio again today. Pradeep, if I croak or something, fall over dead, I think the baton of No Compromise Radio could just be passed on to you now.

You're a pro at this. This is show three for you.

All right, we started with one.

Pradeep, tell us a little bit for those that missed the last two Wednesdays. Who are you and what are your passions and drives in gospel ministry? And just give us a little background.

Yeah, my name is Pradeep Tilak. I serve here as an elder with Pastor Mike Abendroth. I'm one of those men like Timothy that Pastor Mike has trained. And I studied at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, did my doctorate on apologetics.

And I love serving the local church. I think it's a great privilege and a great joy to be able to be an undershepherd under Christ here while we wait for his return. How long have you been an elder now?

How many years? I believe it's 2006. Okay, coming up on 10 years. Don't count me on this. My dates are very bad. I try to remember that for church history, but not really for my own life.

If you'd like to listen to Pradeep preach, you can go to bbcchurch .org. He preaches here sometimes, does the IBS classes, the Institute for Biblical Studies, has taught systematic theology and all kinds of other classes.

And Pradeep, one of the things we try to do here at the church, since there's only one pulpit and there are many needs outside the church is we have a pulpit supply ministry that you lead. Tell our listeners a little bit about the pulpit supply ministry and why we do it and how the Lord has used it.

Yes, so living here in the New England area, we have several churches where there is a pastor with no supporting elders or supporting elders who are not yet able to teach. And so when the pastor needs to go on vacation or when they are ill, there is a sudden need for preaching in that congregation when they are away.

And given that there are so few churches around and many of these churches are very small, since I believe 2005, I have been involved in the pulpit supply ministry. I think Cape Cod Bible Church was the first one where I preached.

And at that time, they were between pastors, so they were waiting for a pastor to come. And so me and a couple of men would go there and preach. And today, I serve as the elder for the pulpit supply here.

We have Eric Johansen, the deacon, and he coordinates with the men at BBC to go and serve as the need arises.

If you live here in Massachusetts or maybe Southern Vermont or Southern New Hampshire or Northern Connecticut, we would love to be able to serve you. You can write us at infoatnocompromiseradio .com if you want a man to come and preach a verse-by-verse exposition on a Sunday.

We would love to serve you that way. Pradeep, I love the ministry because it serves Christ's body here universally in New England. But it also gives you men opportunity to preach because how do you learn how to preach unless it's really on a Sunday morning?

So I watch these men and off they go. Probably on any given Sunday, two or three of our men are going to different churches to preach. How many times do you think you've preached outside of BBC on a Sunday morning?

That's probably more than 100 times. But I don't see it.

And so I have done things so poorly in so many areas of my life. And then the good news is God is sovereign in that. And I say to myself, well, then the next generation are the people that I can influence.

I don't want them to make the same mistakes. And I think I had preached maybe, I don't know, Pradeep, 10 times on a Sunday morning before I became a preaching pastor. I mean, I had done a lot of Bible studies throughout the years and taught every week at the home group and stuff like that.

But Sunday morning's different, isn't it? And so if I would have preached 100 sermons before I became a pastor, then there probably would have been a revival at Bethlehem Baptist Church at the time. That already is.

Actually, Jim George once told me, you don't know how to preach until you've preached 100 sermons. And what he meant by that was, you know, there are certain routines and ways you go about things and you begin to step on the same pathway as you would walk across the field of preaching and you would wear it down and it would be an old path, a well-known path.

And so you hit the number on the head, Pradeep, 100. I had no idea. What's the strangest thing that ever happened to you when you went to a different church? Because some are not Master Seminary related or Southern Baptist Theological Seminary related.

They're just churches that call, maybe congregational, maybe charismatic. And we'd like to have a pulpit supply preacher. What's the strangest thing that ever happened to you at one of these things?

You know, just before I answer that, every time I go, I try to, because I don't know where the congregation is. Are these believers? Are these, you know, where are they theologically? So I pick something that is a strong, hard passage.

I normally use 1 John and I preach it with the authority of God's word. And then I meet with the people and try to be gracious in terms of engaging with them, depending on where they are. But I think the most exciting one was, I think somewhere on the North Shore, I went up there and I found out at the last minute there was, it was only going to be a 20 minute sermon.

And so Not by your choice. No, not by my choice. And so I said, okay, I can do this. So I had a text that I had prepared. And then when the 20 minutes came up, I looked up at the person who had to make the decision and he was like, thumbs up, keep going.

And I looked around the church and I said, I've got the permission to continue. And it went on for another 20 minutes.

Oh, that is a great story. Pradeep, when I get asked to go preach someplace else, I think of even once when I was in India and a main line Methodist church asked me to preach. And Chris Williams said, yes, you should go preach.

And they need the gospel. I remember preaching Ephesians 2, 1 to 10. I have good news and I have bad news and I have good news. And they said, well, the sermons are about 20 minutes because I would always ask about how long does the regular pastor preach?

Oh, about 20 minutes. And so this is my standard line. Feel free to lift it if you'd like. If I can keep their attention longer than 20 minutes, could I go just a little bit longer? And then they usually say, yeah, okay.

And then somehow I always think I can keep their attention.

And you know, Pastor Mike, if I can just borrow that, some of the churches are not used to seeing the word of God exposited the way it ought to in bringing out the meaning as authoritative from God himself and preached with a passion that these are very lives hanging upon these words.

And I think you're right. When you go to a new church, a place, especially which hasn't had expository preaching, people get excited, you know, if there are believers here or they get convicted.

The Joy and Heartache of Eldership

Pradeep, I think you would agree with me. One of my all-time favorite comments that I receive after I preach, I mean, I don't need people to say thank you or that was great or something like that, but one I still love to hear, not just in my flesh, but also, you know, I think for a godly reason.

Fred, the other day I preached my introduction to Hebrews part one, and we were just going through why this is such an exciting book. And it's a book of encouragement and exhortation. It's Christ-centered.

It shows the high priest, Jesus Christ. And Fred, I think he's probably getting close to 80 now, dear guy's been here for the last 18 years, even longer. I haven't been able to run him out yet. I've just seen Fred and his wife, Maxine, learn and grow and they're servants.

And he said, I looked down at my watch and couldn't believe the 50 minutes went by so fast. Now that to me, I wasn't thinking because I'm such a great preacher, but because when you do go verse by verse and when you have people in the congregation that are engaged and trying to pay attention, doesn't it go by fast?

Don't you love to hear that from people? That 50 minutes went by so fast. Amen.

Oh, by the way, does Fred still get up on our roofs?

He's not allowed to anymore. I've had to give him, I seriously, I don't like to throw my proverbial weight around, but I have to say to people sometimes, I mean, can you imagine a pastor having to say to this dear saint, stop climbing on the roof, fixing the roof, you know, you're too old for that.

And that's a good question for those that are listening to the show today. Does your pastor have to beg and plead with you to serve and to have some gospel ministry, or should he tell you to slow down a little bit?

That's a good barometer. Pradeep, I know you love and consider the calling of being an under shepherd, a high calling. Tell me what gives you the most encouragement as an elder. And then after that, I'm going to ask you, what breaks your heart the most as an elder?

So let's start with a positive one first, serving the Lord's people in a local church. What's the greatest joy about that?

Before I answer that, I want to just say something that happened to my life. You know, when I was saved, I came to know the Lord. When I came here to BBC, I understood the power of God's word that impacts my life when we submit to it and how we look at God's word as pure and unadulterated.

We don't bring in things into it, but we let the word of God change us. And so having experienced this power of God's word in a dynamic way after coming here, I realized that as an elder, my calling is to bring God's word to the people of God.

So the people of God can see how the word of God bears upon their lives in very direct ways and how they can respond to God by listening to the word and submitting to it. So the thing that gives me the greatest joy is when I can see my brothers and sisters here with their eyes open up and say, I get it.

I see what God expects of me in this particular circumstance. The last few weeks I've been meeting with a brother and when we just bring the word of God to bear upon this particular circumstance, it becomes like, wow, I get it.

I know what God wants me to do. I don't have the ability to do it. I need to rely upon God's power to do it, but I get it. And so in this particular circumstance, I'm looking forward to seeing three months, six months down the road to see how the word of God changes people's lives.

And I think it's a great honor to be part of God's work in his people's lives and get to see the fruit as it happens.

There are times as elders, we are sad because of what sin does in and through people and concerned about it. And I'm sure you've had plenty of sleepless nights as people get enslaved to sin, we all are ensnared in sin.

And then of course we have our own sin to deal with. So that makes it even more complicated. But what breaks your heart as an elder? What's, let's put it biblically, Hebrews 13 talks about giving your elders joy.

What's the opposite for you? What do sheep do that just breaks your heart and makes you sad? You know, in the church,.

At least on this side of eternity, we don't expect perfection. We don't expect sin to not be here. And each of us and myself foremost, I have things in my mind that I hold on to Pradeep's thoughts versus God's thoughts.

And so when I meet people, I can just think of a few right now as I'm speaking, where they know what God's word says and they would not submit to it, knowing fully well the consequences, both temporally and eternally.

I often ask myself, you know, is this person truly a believer? And I would ask them that, you know, examine yourself to make sure you're standing in the faith. And some of the consequences that we have to live with, you know, I personally don't get terribly hurt if someone is upset with me.

I have a very thick skin. It hurts, but doesn't bother me as much. But when I see families ruined, when I see men walking down a path to destruction, I know as a believer, if they are a believer, the Lord will still save them as through fire.

But when they could be enjoying the goodness of God in its immensity and instead be stuck upon their own thinking and say, no, I will choose not to submit to God. I think that's terrible.

Counseling, Sufficiency of Scripture, and Lay Ministry

Talking to Pradeep today on No Compromise Radio. I don't know if I've ever had a guest on three weeks in a row. So thank you for that love gift before the show. I appreciate it. Pradeep, let's talk a little bit more about local ministry and how we go about things.

Let's say counseling, for instance. How would you encourage lay people in their local church? Because we've got listeners across the country and I think we've got some listeners overseas as well. How can they use the word of God to help other believers?

In other words, sometimes we think, well, I've got to meet with the pastor. I've got to meet with the elders. I need wise counsel. And of course there's nothing wrong with that. But aren't we equipped with the word of God as lay people to give the word, to admonish one another as Romans 15 talks about?

How could you encourage some of the folks to, when they hear a sister or brother who's struggling, to say, you know what, here's my approach and here's how I can love you with the word of God without banging Romans 8, 28 over their head in the midst of a funeral kind of thing.

You're right, Pastor Mike. I think Ephesians 4, when it talks about the gifts to the church and men like you and I and the elders and pastors in the churches equip the saints with understanding the word of God and how it ought to be lived out.

Now, when we talk about counseling, as I said to the earlier question, what is it that we rely upon in terms of ministering to someone in need? We believe that the Bible is all sufficient and to the degree that we understand the word of God, we are able to help the person walking through those trials.

And I think when I think of counseling someone who is struggling in sin, I think of Galatians 6, the beginning part of it, where you look at how a brother is in need and your love for this brother would make you go and reach out to that person and drag them out of the trouble that they are in.

And now, if I were to say, it is just my experience, a similar experience that I need in order to help that person, then I'd be cut out from 90 of the church. You know, I left as part of a layoff this company that I was working with for nearly 20 years.

Now, if I said I needed to be laid off before I can counsel someone else, then I would have never been able to speak to any of the other people who are struggling trying to find a job. But on the other hand, when we look at it as, there are some biblical principles about who God is.

He is the God who provides. I know that fully well. He has provided in a lot of different areas in my life even before I went through a layoff. I understand the heart that is struggling in the times of change when you do not see with your physical eyes what you ought to be able to trust with the eyes of faith.

And these are things that I think any believer can come alongside and help. If someone is struggling in a particular sin, you go to the word of God and say, what does the word say about this sin? And how can I help this person recognize the danger that they are in and what ought they to do?

What would I do for myself if I were in that circumstance? And you would just communicate the word of God in love to the person in need.

Trusting God Through Layoff and Anxiety

So many people these days get downsized or laid off. A rare is the 1950s man or woman who worked for a company for 35 years and they never had to change positions and then they get a pension and they retire.

Pradeep, what went through your mind as you were gonna get downsized? We had many almost throughout the years where you almost got downsized. How did you work through this biblically so others who will go through and maybe who are going through downsizing now, what's the strategy?

How do you capture your thoughts so they don't run off with worry and fret and fear? Because maybe inside you struggle with it more than you show on the outside, but we know each other well and I don't see you full of anxiousness and fret and fear.

What's the strategy for that so other people can glean from that?

You put it very well, Pastor Mike, about the battlefield of the mind. Let me say this. The layoff is the best thing that has happened to me because it is in God's sovereign plan. When we recognize who God is, when our mind is fixed upon the nature of the God that we serve, and the thing is, you can't wait until you're in a layoff to figure out you're gonna trust God.

You wanna be reading God's word, understanding his nature, growing and building up your trust in him as it comes from the word of God. So when I was, our company since actually 2002 has been going through layoffs, and in the early days it was, you have questions that came up.

It's like, what is my self-worth based upon the work that I do? And if I am let go, does that mean I'm no longer valued? And then you look at God's word and say, no, my value comes in my relationship to my heavenly father.

It is God who gives me value. It is God who provides for me. It is in God I trust, not in the dollar bill. And so the last few years, it was very freeing because I knew this day was gonna come because we are in a more expensive part of the business unit.

And so I volunteered. I told my, I remember telling my boss. So I volunteered. You know, if you think about it, Pastor Mark, it's actually harder to let go someone than to be let go. So I remember telling my boss, you know, he's a great guy, John, and I tell him the gospel and I tell him, you know, this is, I trust in the Lord.

When your time comes to decide, don't hesitate. I'll gladly move on because that's God's time for me. And I remember having the conversation before we left. And we wanna honor God in the uptimes as well as in the downtimes.

And I think I've told you off the show, this has been one of the best times in terms of witnessing to Christ and also learning what are those things in my life that I still need to trust God even more?

You know, what are those areas in my life the Lord is sanctifying me? My mind is used to thinking things in a certain way. And now I look at it, you know, Pradeep, you've been over-efficient in a few things.

You know, you need to kind of think differently. And so when you, but when you get discouraged, when you get down, you need to remember your mind needs to fix upon the one solid ground that never changes.

Pradeep, I don't like it when I worry, but I have to admit that I have anxious thoughts and I worry sometimes. Maybe I worry a lot. I think of my mother would say about people who worry, you're a worry wart.

So, and then they have kids songs, fundamentalist kids songs, a worry wart hog. Just, I'm just talking out loud now. Jesus said in the midst of the Sermon on the Mount, when you worry, go outside and look at the birds.

You know, take a walk, go look at the birds, take a look at the flowers. And what you were saying earlier about if my self-worth is my job, you know, what do we do in society today? In the Western world, maybe in the Eastern world as well.

What's your name and what do you do for work, right? That's how we put people in boxes and think through. And so for ourselves, all right, well, okay, I'm worried, what's going to happen? Well, God's taking care of those birds and God's the creator of the birds, but he's my father.

What father doesn't take care of his children's needs? You know, we were just, we're watching that Sinclair Ferguson message about assurance of salvation and how great the father is. And if I'm an okay father, yet sinful, God, the father is a wonderful and holy father.

And I just need to get out once in a while and take a walk. That's the new therapy is walking and birdwatching. I thought that was only for older people.

Yeah, read the Bible and then go out and walk.

Well, can you imagine what do I do instead? Well, I can be on my iPad sitting inside and I think I just need to go outside and just take a look at a few birds.

Actually, if I may say, add on to this, you know, our lives are so busy. You know, we have a lot of agendas that we want to accomplish. And it is helpful to just, when you read the word, to just meditate on it.

And like even this passage, you know, watching the birds. And I think in our culture, that is a, I don't know if I want to use therapy, but it is one of those things that I think is essential in terms of our relationship with God.

It, you know, sometimes I'm guilty of this. I used to listen, you know, two plus hours of lectures on different subjects as I'm trying to keep myself informed. But then, you know, there's a lot of cerebral stuff, but we need to actually cogitate, let the spirit of God engage with us, changes.

And so I'm, again, thankful for this layoff because now I've got time.

Time Management Between Jobs and Serving the Church

Well, and even the little things like spending time with your kids and being a chauffeur to them and making sure that you're there at the games and all these other things. Pradeep, how about, as we need to kind of wrap this up a little bit, Jay Adams once said that if you've been laid off, make it your full-time job to look for a job.

In other words, be busy and send out the resumes, make the phone calls, be productive, serve at a local church. Because if God has made you to be a worker, then if you sit around, it's only going to compound the problem.

You'll have no job and you'll feel bad because you're not working. What's your strategy for your time now when you don't have a job?

Yeah, actually, that's a very important point because I think when you get laid off or you move away from something that was structured in your life, you can tend to kind of get floaty. And I, you know, I wake up early in the morning, I have my devotion, I do a little workout, I drop my kids and then I have a list of 10 things I need to do.

You know, I'm applying for, I have a list of jobs I have to finish applying for by this week. So each day I spend three to four hours on each application. So I get maybe two applications a day. And then focus on other things.

You know, now that I'm not driving, I have extra time. So I actually end up reading some theological works, some philosophical works for my subject, for apologetics. And so it's actually, and then spend time praying for those in your lives.

There are aspects in my life that I think were marginalized, not prioritized as much. And this is a good time for me to examine, you know, here are areas in my life I need to focus on spiritually and even physically.

And when you have, I am still working on it because I don't think I've settled on a routine but if someone, I think to begin by thinking about here is my job between jobs and that is to find a job.

I think that's helpful. Great advice. If you want to go to Amazon listeners and pick up Pradeep's dissertation, Worldview Apologetics, you can do that. I do want to say though, it's not a popular book.

It's not, that is to say, it's not written at a lay person's level. It's a PhD dissertation, but I'm kind of, you know, watching Pradeep, wanting to write some more to popular level. And so you're gonna see some, hopefully some of his books come out.

That would be great. Pradeep, thanks for your ministry here at Bethlehem Bible Church. Thanks for your friendship, co-laborer in Christ Jesus and praise the Lord for you. Thank you for having me.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.