Calvinism and Why Jesus Died | Apologia Radio Highlight

Apologia Studios

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

And it's the treatment of John Owen that really clearly communicates on this point, on this point of the atonement, if you think the atonement was this general thing to make everybody savable, and that Jesus died for the sins of every single person who ever lived, sort of a thing, well, you're going to have to get into universalism, right?

00:20

You just logically, biblically, theologically have to. Well, follow it.

00:26

If he paid for their sins, everyone's sins, then why is anyone in hell?

00:32

Right. Why will that be an eternal destination? And I'm sorry, there's just no way to overcome

00:37

John Owen's treatment of this discussion. Can I read that? I actually have it. Do you have it? What do you...

00:42

Okay, go ahead. That's perfect. I have that section pulled up from the book, actually, because I don't really think there's a better way to phrase it. Yeah. And again, this is laying a foundation in terms of how do you think about the atonement?

00:50

Because as you get into the sections of scripture about the atonement, they say what they say... Right. I'm not saying this is my authority.

00:56

No. I'm saying it's a very effective way to express it. The texts say what they say. My dealing with this is because it's a dynamite moment of blowing apart a tradition where you have this biblical view of the atonement, you know what the

01:07

Bible says about it, but you've got this tradition just gnawing at it. And Owen blows it up and you go, oh,

01:13

I actually can accept those texts as they are. So go ahead. So the way he expresses it, he says,

01:20

The Father imposed his wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either, number one, all the sins of all men, number two, all the sins of some men, or number three, some of the sins of all men, in which case it may be said, if the last be true, so the sum of the sins of all men, then all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved.

01:45

That's right. Two, if the second be true, which is the Calvinist perspective, then

01:51

Christ in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.

01:57

Number three, but if the first is the case, that was he died for all the sins of all men, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

02:06

You answer, because of unbelief. I ask, is this unbelief a sin, or is it not?

02:13

If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or he did not. If he did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which he died?

02:23

If he did not, he did not die for all their sins. Now, just to kind of bring a little bit of context there, that's usually one of the things that you hear from people, is if Christ died for their sins, then why do they end up in hell?

02:38

Well, because of their unbelief. Yeah. And then we have to ask the necessary question that comes next, is unbelief a sin?

02:45

Read the book of Hebrews. Why were the people of God destroyed? Because they did not join their hearts, right?

02:51

That their hearts weren't joined by faith to the promises. That's how the text words it. In other words, unbelief.

02:58

Yeah. Unbelief in scripture is clearly a sin. So did Christ die for the sin of unbelief?

03:05

If you say he died for all the sins of all men, then he died for the sins of unbelief, which is why, of course, in history, when you've seen particular denominations or churches go off into universalism, it is on the basis of that belief many times, that belief that, well,

03:22

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, all their sins, everything's been paid for. And so people go off into universalism on the basis of a really faulty view of the atonement.

03:31

If he died for the sins of all people, all the sins of all people, then that's a universal atonement.

03:37

That's universal redemption. And that is universalism. Everybody is saved. Yeah. If he died for their sins, what are they paying for?

03:44

Right. Right. So I think Owen's treatment of that is potent in terms of he's uncovering an inconsistency in our thinking about what

03:54

Jesus actually accomplishes in the atonement. Now, the thing is, you'll have people who are not reformed in the perspective of soteriology in their view here, they'll have some mixed stuff.

04:05

They'll have, however, an inescapable attachment to what the Bible says about the atonement of Jesus.

04:11

So they know it and what Jesus actually accomplishes. They know what's taking place in that cross for them.

04:18

But yet this tradition over here, just gnaws at it. And so they have to abandon what they know to be true about the atonement to hold on to this and secure this tradition over here of, but it was for everybody, all time, all their sins.

04:30

And you have to press on that. Okay. Is unbelief a sin? Well, he died for that too. So that's paid for.

04:35

Also, you have to push what you know about the atonement into the realm of the discussion. Okay.

04:41

If Jesus paid for the sins of all people, right.

04:49

And even, well, watch, watch. Even if you say, okay, but it's just not joined together with their belief.

04:58

All right. That's the problem, but their sins were still paid for. Their sins are still paid for, but they're just not joined with belief.

05:05

So they suffer in hell for all eternity for sins that Jesus already died for. So for what are they being punished?

05:12

Well, for unbelief, right. But now they're paying for their life of sin and rebellion that Jesus also paid for.

05:20

And so there's a double penalty. How many payments? There's a double penalty. I thought God was just.

05:26

So if in scripture... That's huge. If in scripture, God's justice comes and then justice is paid, there's a penalty and justice is satisfied.

05:34

Okay. In the place of Christ, where he says it is finished and the justice of God is satisfied there to tell us die, it's done.

05:42

It's over. Wrath appeased. Exactly. If it's finished, then for what are they being punished for all eternity, never ending, everlasting fire and torment?

05:56

For what are they being punished when the son of God died to pay for those sins?

06:02

So the father is punishing two people for the sins of the one person. How do we get that from scripture and God's standards of justice?

06:11

Because I can tell you right now, if you know the law of God, that is not permissible in God's law. You do not punish...

06:16

This is good because it calls the character of God into question. That's right. You do not punish two people for the sins of the one person.

06:23

You don't do that. And so if Jesus accomplished redemption on their behalf and paid for all of their sins, what are they suffering in hell?

06:31

And you can't just go, well, for their unbelief. That's not what scripture says, because Jesus, he actually talks about people giving an account for every idle word.

06:41

Now, if those people are being held accountable for every idle word, if that is something that's gonna be brought to their attention on that day of judgment, how's that gonna happen when

06:53

Jesus already took care of that every idle word? And so we could do this for days, but we need to uncover the traditions we're holding that are actually militating against what we know the scriptures teach about the atonement.