July 29, 2015 ISI Radio Show with Richard Bennett on his testimony & “A Former Priest’s Assessment of Pope Francis”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listeners, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 29th day of July 2015.

I'm so delighted I have a guest from the old Iron Sharpens Iron returning, another guest, and he's an old friend of mine and somebody that I value very greatly in my life.

He has been somebody who's been a great inspiration to me and a true blessing in the

Lord as a brother regarding personal matters as well as spiritual and theological, and his name is

Richard Bennett, who is a former Roman Catholic priest. Richard Bennett comes from Ireland where he was trained by the

Jesuits in his early years. He then received eight years of theological instruction and preparation for the priesthood with the

Dominicans, completing his education at the

Angelicum University in Rome in 1964. He spent 21 years as a

Roman Catholic parish priest in Trinidad, West Indies. He had, therefore, the best of academic training in things

Catholic, plus 21 years of being a parish priest, applying Catholic teachings to everyday life.

After a serious accident in 1972 in which he nearly lost his life, he began to study seriously the

Bible. After 14 years of contrasting Catholicism to biblical truth, he was convicted by the gospel message in 1985.

He was then saved by God's grace alone and formally left the Roman Catholic Church and its priesthood.

He has founded an evangelical ministry to Catholics called Berean Beacon, and his website is bereanbeacon .org.

That's bereanbeacon .org, B -E -R -E -A -N -B -E -A -C -O -N .org,

and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, my dear friend

Richard Bennett. Yes, and I have got some good news for our listeners.

I just have received word from Banner of Truth, the publisher of Richard's book,

Far From Rome, Near to God, the testimonies of 50 converted Catholic priests, that the first four individuals who email a question that is good enough to read on air during our program today, you will receive a free copy of Far From Rome, Near to God.

I have to say, though, that unfortunately our listeners overseas are not eligible because our friends at the

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services, who ship out the free books, want to keep within their budget, and obviously it can be very, very costly if every week they are sending books out overseas, and this is restricted to the

United States shipping, so the first of four U .S. residents who send us an email will receive a free copy of this fascinating book,

Far From Rome, Near to God, The Testimonies of 50 Catholic Priests, but please, if you are from overseas, we urge you to write a question nonetheless, and we look forward to hearing from you.

The email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please include your first name, your city and state, and obviously if you're applicable for the free book, if you live in the

United States, please include your mailing address, and if you are from out of this country, please include your country as well for announcement purposes.

We like our listeners to get an idea of the broad spectrum of places around the globe where we have people listening to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Well, welcome to the program, Richard. As we were discussing earlier, or just now

I should say, Far From Rome, Near to God, The Testimonies of 50 Converted Catholic Priests is a book that has been published that you have edited.

Please tell our viewers something of your own background as a Catholic priest. Yes, I was,

Chris, I was 22 long years a priest and in total

I was 48 years a Catholic and 30 years a Dominican, and I have a great love for and empathy towards Catholics because I know what it is to be in the system.

I was in it as deeply as you could get from my youth being Catholic and growing up Catholic and then with the

Jesuits for all of my education, primary and secondary, what you call high school here in the

States, all that with Jesuits and then with the Dominican for eight years, first years being just devotional, but seven years of studies, and I know what it is, so I have a great empathy and love for Catholics, and I want that really to be emphasized.

I have a love for and I've seen precious Catholics come to biblical salvation in the

Lord, and it's a great joy to me. So my background as a priest was I was utterly dedicated in my training.

I was so dedicated that I had memorized what Mary was supposed to have said at Fatima, you know, the false apparitions, what they called them, the real apparitions of Mary at Fatima, and that Mary said, many souls go to hell because there's nobody to pray or do penance for them, so I decided to do penance, and I used to actually,

I got permission from the Master of Students, the priest, to actually flagellate myself,

I used to beat myself with a cord to feel pain so that souls could go to at least get to purgatory or to heaven, and then

I would take cold showers in the dead of winter in Ireland, and just to feel cold as it were my bones, and I would walk sometimes with pebbles in my shoes to feel pain as I walked.

You know, I went and did penance. I was so devout, that was even in my training, in my years of study,

I did so well academically that I qualified, you gave a resume there of my life.

I was in Italy, in Rome in the academic year of 63, going into 64, finishing off at a very well -known

Angelicum University. I was then sent as a missionary priest at Trinidad West in the 70s, and I was going to spend 21 years there.

Those, they were dramatic years because I ran a good many churches in each place

I was. Those missionary priests are not just in charge of one church, I was in charge sometimes of three churches, and I would then have sometimes outstations as well, you know, more up into the rural areas, what we would call the jungle or, you know, the bush, and it was a very dramatic time because I had a dying

Catholic road accidents and emergencies, baptizing babies, you know, who were still born and being called to the hospital when

I worked in cities, and I used to be doing that, and it was a very dramatic life, and I applied a

Catholic teaching, sitting in the confession box for hours. In those days, confession was popular, it's not popular anymore with the

Catholic Church whatsoever, but in those days, I remember the sweat pouring out of me, not just because it was tropics, but the sins

I was hearing, and then I was really grieved because month after month, and then turned out year after year, people came back with the same sins.

It was like a microwave oven that makes noise, but doesn't do anything.

Sometimes the microwaves, they make noise, but they don't do anything.

It was like that. I was saying, I absolve you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In those days, we said in Latin, and then telling people their reverts off and their sins, and give them the penance to say, and then it was, that used to grieve me, you know, and it used to grieve me really deeply when

I would anoint people with oil at the end, the final anointing, give them communion, and just one man in particular,

I can still hear his groaning and his cursing God when he was dying.

That scared me. Here, I've given this man all the Catholic sacraments. He seemed to receive them devoutly.

I gave him communion, I gave him confession, I anointed him with oil, and then he dies cursing

God. This was really heavy on my heart. How can it be that I've given this man all these things, and nothing has happened?

He's dying cursing God. Things like that, Chris, it was a 21 years high drama, because where I was living in the

West Indies, the West Indies itself is is very dramatic. It's very near the equator where I was in Trinidad, West Indies, and very different than living in temporal zones here in the

States, but that had difficulties in itself, because we had Muslims there, and Hindus, and all sorts of things, but even with all of that, the

Catholic religion was one -third of the entire population, and it was a difficult 21 years, but the

Lord showed me that it didn't work. My heart went out to Catholics, and what about myself, and then

I studied 14 years. Why it took me so long is I didn't like to see the results.

If the Scripture is true, believe on the Lord Jesus, and you'll be saved. It's not baptizing people, giving them confession, and as the

Catholic Church now officially says, the sacraments are necessary for salvation. It's not all these things and rituals that save people.

No, it's believing on Christ alone. When I saw that in Scripture, it pierced me.

How can I trust this? How can I? Because I'm out of a job.

What do I do? I don't even have a country to go to. I can't go back to my

Ireland. They will incarcerate me or something. I'll say I've gone out of my head if I go back to Ireland.

It was a real serious matter with the Irish, as you know, even with the IRA and all.

It was even bloodshed. It was a serious, serious, serious matter.

I cried out to God then when I saw Ephesians chapter 2 verse 1, you've been dead and trespassed, and since I thought

I was dead, I cried out to God for the faith and the grace, because I thought there was nothing I can do. God, Lord, please save me.

I can still remember the night, kneeling on the floor, the red carpet, crying out to God, and then throwing up my hands in the air after I'd prayed, and I said,

I thank you, Father in heaven, that you've given me the faith and the grace, and now I'm secure in Christ.

May I love you and may I love precious Catholics all the days of my life.

Father, fill me with your spirit and give me the security and love to know that you will look after me, and I cried for about ten minutes on the floor, but praise

God, and I have that love for Catholics to this day, and people ask me, why is it I say, and so many videos, about 70 videos

I've made, and the ones about Catholicism, why is it I call Catholics precious? Because they are precious.

They're precious in God's sight as souls, souls that need to know the straight message, scriptural message, and come to the joy of salvation, and that's why, and I thank

God he answered that prayer, and today I am where I am, and who I am with the ministry he's given to me, praise the

Lord. Amen, and I'd like to remind our listeners, those of you who have or have not seen the publicity of this program on the

Internet, the first hour we are going to be exclusively discussing

Richard's testimony and other things regarding the Roman Catholic Church in general, and the second hour

Richard is staying on the air with us to discuss specifically his assessment of Pope Francis, the most liberal pontiff that Rome has ever had in its history, and I'll give you my email address one more time for now, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, if you have a question for Richard, and keep in mind that the questions that we're looking for right now are specifically for the

Catholic Church in general, or specifically Richard's testimony. Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, we have your question, but we're going to hold off for the second hour on that because it involves

Pope Francis, and so we're going to hold off on that until later, but God willing we will get to your question, so we thank you for your patience.

I'd like to ask you, as most people who are not Roman Catholics, as most people who want to ask former priests who have become

Bible believers, did you not study the Scriptures in the seminary? No, we didn't study the

Scriptures as such. We all had Bibles, of course, and the Bible was read during Mass, you know, and it was read, it was part of what we call the divine office that we prayed.

We prayed the Psalms and read different parts of the Bible in the divine office, but we didn't study the

Scriptures as such. We studied redaction theology and higher criticism, going back to some of the well -known infamous, should

I say, German scholars, and that would more distrust you. We didn't, we didn't study, we did study, funnily enough or not, but it has proved good for myself, we did study

Hebrew and Greek, you know, the languages of the Bible, but we didn't study the Bible as such, and it was, we did introduction to some of the books of the

Bible, but we didn't study. We studied, first of all, for three long years, the philosophy of Aristotle.

I can still quote the dictums of Aristotle in Latin, studying the pagan philosopher who lived many years before Christ.

I knew exactly all his spiritual ideas about the existence of God and why material things can give physical life, which we needed to show physically how the sacraments could give spiritual life, and that was used later on in some of the proofs that Aquinas, who was based on Aristotle, would use.

I studied Aquinas for three years, and Thomas Aquinas, I studied his Toma, the

Summa Theologica, the sum, you know, the whole, the total of theology.

I studied that for four long years. We finished studying that, again, when

I was my final year in Rome, and it was, we studied sometimes through the

Latin language, even in Ireland, but mostly in English. Of course, it was all

Latin for me when I reached Italy, but it was, we studied

Thomas Aquinas. He was our main theologian, and he was the one that we were going to show and prove

Romanism, going to show how the Catholic Church is the one true Church, and how you must have

Mother Church, you must trust the Mother Church for your salvation, and outside the

Church there's no salvation, that famous dictum, and on and on. All was from Thomas Aquinas.

So four years, Thomas Aquinas, and three years of Aristotle, and of course we did some other minor things.

We did logic and some other topics like that. We did courses and other things, but those were the major for the three years, and the four years of Thomas Aquinas.

So my years of study were not the Bible, would to God that they were. So I was really going into something

I didn't know after 1972, before most of you are forever born, when

I had a serious accident and nearly died. It was then after that disastrous, or nearly completely disastrous it turned out, that I did recover after three days being unconscious.

It was after that I really started studying the Bible, and by God's grace

I did come to the conclusion that it is salvation is based on the Scripture alone.

It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ, He is alone, and the glorious conclusion all praise and glory to God alone, not to any creature, not to anybody but God alone.

We only pray to God and we only worship God. Now do you think that your experience in seminary, having a lack of Bible training, could that have been a unique experience amongst

Catholic seminaries? Could there have been others that were more conservative, who trained the priests more diligently?

And I know that you have spoken with many former priests, because you've obviously edited the book,

Far From Rome, Near to God, the testimonies of fifty converted Catholic priests. So was that pretty much a consensus, that the

Catholic seminaries did not train people adequately in the Bible, train students in the

Bible, or was there some difference among Catholics you have spoken with? No, well you could go to the code of canon law, the

Catholic Church has its own law, and the law of the Catholic Church was how our priests were to be trained, and they were to be trained in the philosophy of Greece, I forget the exact words,

I haven't got the exact quotation in front of me, but I do use it, many of the things I've written, they were to be used, they would use the

Greek philosophy to get a foundation of how we should understand, and how man, who man is, who

God is, and then they should study theology.

It wasn't that they had to study Thomas Aquinas, as Dominicans we studied Thomas Aquinas, the

Jesuits had different theologians that they studied, some of the leading

Jesuit theologians, and there was always a rivalry intellectually between the

Jesuits and the Dominicans, but it was it was just theology, and it wasn't scripture we were studying, but no

Catholic priest is trained in the scripture as a foundation, he's trained in theology, and he's trained in philosophy, and the philosophy is necessary, it's still part of the official

Catholic training, and it's in Catholic law this has to take place. Now you mentioned the really the barbaric practice of self -flagellation, whipping yourself and so on, do you think that that is still practiced in rectories today, or in the privacy of the

Roman Catholic priests' quarters? This is 30 years after you left the

Catholic Church, do you think that that is actually still happening? I don't think, even in my day,

I don't think it was happening, I think that, I doubt that the priest didn't know that I was doing this, the other priests were training, seminarians, they didn't know

I was doing that, and I doubt there was anybody, I had read it in the history, in some of the Catholic history books, you know, and in the history of the

Catholic Church, some of the so -called saints had flagellated themselves, but I know of nobody else in modern times who did this, but I was so intent, that's why

I said that, and I was so intent, but penance was recommended, people would, they'd give up their candy during Lent, and they would give up sometimes drinking sodas, and you know,

Coca -Cola in the States, and all, and you know, they'd give up some things that they liked during Lent, and they would, that would be their penance, you know what

I mean, and people would abstain from some things that they really liked, they had little penances like that, ordinary, even ordinary people did, but these, as it were, dramatic penances that I did, they were, they were in Catholic history, but not, not that I know, besides myself, in recent times.

So you were going above and beyond the call of duty, then, in doing that? Well, that's what I saw,

Judy, you know, what to God, it was, the pain of standing on a cold shower, you know,

Dublin, Ireland is as far north as Moscow, and the cold, that was one of the things

I used to dread, and I would only maybe last five minutes on the cold shower, that was one of the worst penances

I ever, ever did, but I said, man, souls go to hell, if nobody to pray or do penance for them, so Mary is supposed to have said, so this is, let me do this.

So, and briefly, you and all those who are believers in the

Gospel of the Bible, who are heirs of the Reformation, the reason that we find that kind of practice so abhorrent and wicked is because it is, it is really a declaration that Christ's suffering is insufficient, isn't it?

Yes, I see that now, yes, yes, the Scripture says with verse 8, by grace through faith, that not of us, that it is a gift of God, not of works, that's in which it was,

Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, and 9 is not of works, and it is, it's a blasphemy against Christ and his

Gospel. All right, we're going to ask one question from a listener before we go to a break.

We have Mike in Fort Myers, Florida, who says, greetings

Richard, I thank you for your ministry through Berean Beacon, I'm a former Roman Catholic myself, and my question to you is, what area or areas of biblical teaching, or even from a historical angle, have you found to have the most impact in using with Roman Catholics in order to reveal the truth of God's way of salvation to them?

The best, what I have found, the best way to reveal biblical truth is the work of the

Apostle Paul in the book of Ephesians. By God's grace, after that accident,

I used to read Ephesians chapter 1 and 2, sometimes 20 times a day, that's what the

Lord had me to do, because if we read Ephesians chapter 1 and 2, we have

God's call, chosen before the foundation of the world, it's God who calls you, it's

He who has chosen you, and we have then, it's by grace through faith, as those verses we quoted in Ephesians chapter 2, but in chapter 1 verse 4 was whom

He has called, you know, and then He has sanctified you, and He purifies you, and it's all of God's grace,

I cannot recommend more than anything else, I know a lot of history, and by God's grace

I've studied a lot of history, and I could mention some of the historians, like Wiley, and Daubinet, and things like that, but I would want to emphasize most of all, it's for the salvation of souls, bring people to Ephesians chapter 1 and chapter 2, and there's nothing, nothing better than that.

Excellent, excellent. Well we're going to be going to our first station break, and let me repeat that if you're sending in an email with a question for Richard Bennett, provide your mailing address if you live in the

United States, so you can get the free copy of Far From Rome, Near to God, that banner of truth is so gracious and generous enough to provide for our first four questioners today, that are asking questions good enough to get on the air, that is, and you can't just ask what your favorite color is or anything like that, and we've got a couple of questioners already, or we've got a couple of emails from listeners that do not have mailing addresses or even cities and states where they're from, so please, if you've already emailed us a question, send another email with your mailing address or your city and state, and keep in mind, we still want to hear from you who are overseas, with questions, we just cannot have a free copy of the book sent to you unfortunately, but if you're writing from overseas, please also provide your country and the city in that country that you're from, and obviously if you have a sensitive issue you'd like to discuss as a

Roman Catholic perhaps, or because your family is Roman Catholic and you don't want to identify yourself, you may remain anonymous if you so choose.

And the email address, once again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

don't go away, we'll be right back with former Roman Catholic priest Richard Bennett, who was saved by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, to the glory of God alone.

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That's wrbc .us. Welcome back.

This is Chris Zarnes. And if you've just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron, our guest today is Richard Bennett, who is a former

Roman Catholic priest. He is now a Bible -believing Christian and the founder and director of Berean Beacon Ministries.

And their website is bereanbeacon .org. That's B -E -R -E -A -N -B -E -A -C -O -N .O

-R -G. And if you'd like to send us an email with a question for Richard regarding his testimony as a

Roman Catholic or something about the Roman Catholic Church in general, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. In the book Far From Rome, Near to God, Richard, many of the priests are seen doing penance for the salvation of souls.

In the seminary, they were not taught the biblical principle in the words of Ephesians 2.

If you want to comment further on that, I know that you were giving some prominent scripture verses before the break, but if you could continue.

Yes, I think we don't have to go into that again, Ephesians 2. You've been dead in trespasses and sins, and I think that the scripture is so clear, you've been dead.

In Gaudium et Spes, which was one of the official

Vatican II documents that came out while I was still a

Roman Catholic priest, actually, the council was on, just finishing in 1964 when

I was there in Rome. In Gaudium et Spes, it said, man is wounded and seeks to find the answer to his purpose in life.

I'll give the exact words on different articles I've read. Gaudium et Spes, that official document of the

Catholic Church, man was not wounded, he was dead in sins. A spiritually dead can do nothing, it's only look to God.

When I was telling you my own testimony, I cried out to God that he would give me the faith and the grace.

I didn't presume that I could. Intellectually, I understood that it was in Christ alone, it was by grace alone, but I didn't presume that I could.

He had to give me the gift of faith, and then by grace to energize that so that I would be accepted in Christ the

Beloved. It's so important to see things scripturally. Man is dead, spiritually dead, and we need everything from God.

The great joy is that we know that we were chosen in God before the foundation of the world. You say, man, can you just say that?

That'll put everybody off. Well, I'm not chosen. You would not even be interested. The great

John Owen, the theologian said back in his time, you would not even be interested had God not chosen you.

The Lord, the fact that if you're interested, that is because God has chosen you before the foundation of the world.

Know that you're spiritually dead, look to him for faith and grace, and he gives it to the glory of his grace.

And it's a joy unspeakable and full of glory in the words of the Apostle Peter and 1

Peter. It's just unbelievably great. Praise his name. Well, you providentially answered our listeners' question.

Dick from Indianapolis, Indiana. He asks, why is it that Catholics can't see the truth of the gospel in the scriptures when it's so plainly written there?

And basically you did go into the reason for that just now, and you could even include in that other things like how they cannot see that their veneration of idols is nothing more than idolatry and their veneration of saints is idolatry as well.

But this has a lot to do with what we would call the doctrines of sovereign grace and what has been nicknamed reform theology.

Doesn't it have a lot to do with that, Richard? I really see the biblical principles, and that is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, under God only be the

Lord, and all based on scripture. So I think it's when those principles, you see the utter differences between Catholicism and biblical faith.

Catholicism is very explicit. I think it's probably the only church that so clearly gives its doctrine.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was first published in 1994, is explicit on what is needed to know truth, just as the

Bible is explicit. But the Catholic Church says in paragraph 80 of its official teaching in the

Catechism of the Catholic Church, sacred tradition and sacred scripture then are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.

And holy tradition transmits in its entirety the word of God which is to be entrusted to the apostles by Christ the

Lord and the Holy Spirit. And so holy tradition and sacred scripture are somehow bound together.

And the conclusion of the second paragraph I read there was from paragraph 81 of the

Catechism. Paragraph 82 gives the conclusion. As a result, the church does not derive for certainty about all revealed truths from the scriptures alone.

Both scripture and tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.

The church does not derive for certainty about all revealed truths from the scriptures alone.

It's not scripture alone that tells us the truth. That is the hallmark of what we call any cult.

Cults do not believe in scripture alone. They add their own teaching. Jehovah Witness, The Way International, and on and on and on.

Mormons and all add to the word. Say it officially in paragraph 82 of the

Catechism. But specifically regarding our listener's question about why can't

Catholics see the truth in the Bible, you were saying earlier that we are dead in our trespasses and sins prior to the

Holy Ghost regenerating us, prior to Christ giving us a new heart. It requires a sovereign work of God beforehand before anybody can see the truth of the gospel.

Isn't that true? That is true. It's the sovereign work of God. And it's because God elected and called before the foundation of the world.

And you may say, well, how do I know I'm elected and called of God? Well, if you were not, you would not even be interested if God had not called you and chosen you.

So that is the great encouragement. And it was that that encouraged me in my search towards the end.

And I said, it's those with God. God has called me before the foundation of the world.

And therefore, the fact that I'm seeking must be that I am called. And it gave me a great confidence.

Not only a despondency, but a confidence that if I cry out for grace and faith, He will give it.

And praise God. And the great emails we get from programs like this and from the many, many, many videos that I do online is that people say, yes,

God's grace touched me. And I was born again. And I'd like you to know. And those emails are such a joy to my heart that God's grace is effective.

And it's very, very real. And I know that we will see it from this program today because of who

He is and the glory of Christ Jesus in His grace. Amen.

We do have another listener who has written a question. Let's see.

His name is William from Chapel Hill, North Carolina. And he asks, explain why

Rome's seven sacraments are sometimes called Satan's masterpiece, especially the distinction between infused righteousness versus imputed righteousness.

I haven't heard that phrase, Satan's masterpiece, regarding the seven sacraments. But perhaps you have.

And if you could answer to the best of your ability William's question from Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Yeah. I wouldn't put it that way because Catholics, even bishops and archbishops, and I remember my year in Rome mixing with high

Catholic officials. And I have met, when I was in the West Indies, many bishops. They're sincere men.

They're sincerely wrong, but they're sincere men. And I would not say it like that because these men are sincerely doing what they think is right.

It's what has been handed down to them in their tradition. I would not at all use those. I would say they're offensive words.

In fact, they do completely negate, but I would not use those words. They say about the sacraments in paragraph 1129 of the

Catechism, the church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the new covenant are necessary for salvation.

That is their exact words. The church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the new covenant are necessary for salvation.

That is an abomination. That is utterly wrong. When the jailkeeper asked

Paul and Silas, we see it in Acts chapter 16, what must I do then to be saved?

They said, believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy household.

Believe on the Lord Jesus. It's just the person. It's not any church. It's not any ritual.

It's the person. And that is the clear, clear message. Believe on the Lord Jesus. It's not believing in church, a church and its rituals.

It's believe on the Lord Jesus. And that is blasphemous to say that these sacraments, these rituals are necessary for salvation.

It's only the person of Christ Jesus and then it's by grace through faith. God giving grace and faith.

It's not any church. Praise God, it's not any church. It is the person of Christ and it's

God's grace through faith. That way we praise God. We praise God because this church is saying if you only made your decision for Christ, if you only decide today to accept

Jesus into your heart, you will be saved. That's as much evil as the Catholic church teaching because that is not the way of salvation.

They are teaching a lie. It's not man's decision. It's God's decision. Praise his glorious name.

It's not what man does. It's what God has done and is giving us faith and grace.

Yeah, I can remember you years ago when you were discussing the common evangelical gospel presentation of today.

You will very typically see a minister urging the listeners in the pews or in the audience to invite

Jesus into your heart. And I remember you saying, well, that's not going to save you because I did better than that.

I invited him into my mouth and my stomach every mass. So I can still remember you saying that.

That is an unbiblical concept, isn't it? There is nowhere in the Bible that tells us to invite

Jesus in our heart. In fact, Jesus needs to give us a new heart. He doesn't want to go inside our filthy hearts.

He wants to remove them from us and give us new ones, right? Amen, amen. Praise God. And I praise

God that that message is heard and it really is power of God unto salvation.

And we expect to hear by email from different people. My own email address is

RichardMBennett at yahoo .com. I put in the M so I can keep so many people with Richard Bennett.

So I just put Richard M. Bennett, my middle initial, at yahoo .com if you wanted to email me.

Okay, and there's two N's and two T's in Bennett, right? Yes, yes, B -N -N -E -T -T.

Okay, well, going back to William in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, he did bring up the distinction between imputed righteousness and infused righteousness.

And the infused righteousness is really saying, through Rome, that people are receiving some sort of provenient grace in order to be holy enough to help merit their own salvation.

Isn't that what really infused righteousness is about? Yes, and that's getting very technical.

We needn't go into the technicality, but it's saying that you are right inside yourself. You know, you have righteousness that is perfection within yourself.

There's nobody perfect, only Christ. There's none righteous, no, not one. Paul keeps saying in Romans 3, there's not one righteous, ever.

And even after we're saved, we're never perfect inside ourselves. It's Christ's perfection is credited to us, imputed to us.

And that's why it is, if you go to chapter 4 of Romans, it's 11 times, if I remember correctly,

I think it's 11 times the word is imputed or reckoned or used.

And it's glorious, it's imputed to us, and the Bible insists on that.

It's highlighted, it's imputed, reckoned, credited, like money credited in the bank.

The money is not given directly into your pocket book and goes into the bank. It's credited to you.

And with the righteousness that Christ has credited to us, reckoned to us, and praise God, it's not, nobody is perfect in this life.

It is horrendous that any church could say that somebody has perfect inside themselves, only

Christ is perfect inside himself. His glorious name. The typical evangelical church today, unfortunately, is no more praiseworthy than the church of Rome, I'm sure you agree, because aren't many

Catholics absolutely correct when they say that it is heresy, that many evangelical churches are telling people that they are saved merely because they recited a prayer at the end of a worship service, and they go on to live like the devil, there is no change in their life, and they live perhaps even for decades, multiple decades, as unrepentant adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, or whatever the case may be, or just proud, arrogant people who have no love for Christ, there's no evidence of a new heart, and yet there are evangelical ministers all over the world telling these people that they are saved merely because they intellectually gave some assent to Christ and read a prayer, or recited a prayer, or what have you.

Could you comment on that? Isn't that just as damning as Rome's heresies? In a sense it's more damning than Romanism, because it's saying it's biblical, and it's not biblical.

It's utter blasphemous that they say this, and it's utter blasphemous, so it's worse than Catholicism, because it's giving credit to man, and that man can save himself if he makes his decision and accepts

Jesus so -called into his heart. I have a video online, and I have an article, if you go to our webpage, brainbeacon .org,

you will see it's called The Invincible Gospel and the Modern Evangelical Lie, and I lay it all out in that article,

I lay out all the terminology that evangelicals use, you know, they dedicate your life or give your life to Jesus and all of the other things that they say, besides accept

Jesus into your heart. I lay out all of these, and I show how they're an abomination before the

Scriptures, before the Word of Truth, and before the Holy God, and they bring people of false pretense, and so these evangelicals say, well, they are a carnal

Christian, they've made Christ Savior, they haven't made him Lord. We don't make him

Savior, we don't make him Lord. He is Lord, and he is Savior, and this abominable language that the evangelicals use, well, we've made him

Savior, but we haven't made him Lord. There's no such thing as a carnal Christian. If you're saved, you're saved out of your sins, you repent of them, and you don't continue in your sins to use the

Word of Scripture. And this is, praise God. And, of course, a genuine, born -again,

Bible -believing Christian is not incapable of sin. In fact, he does it every day in some measure, and even may backslide temporarily into some serious sin.

But isn't the difference that the true child of God always repents eventually and returns to his first love?

That is true, that is true. We always come back, praise God. We always come back, and it's counting on God's grace.

It's not counting on what we did. Even our repentance is always of God, and praise God. I hope that we have evangelicals listening who are sincerely evangelicals and see that the false gospel message of making your decision to accept

Jesus into your heart, dedicating your life to Christ, all of these things is not.

It's God has chosen you. Trust on Him, on His grace, and look to Him for the faith and grace.

He will give it, and praise to Him. It would be lovely to hear from you also, besides hearing from precious

Catholic people. And one of the things that I find interesting is because when

I speak to Catholics who are predominantly moderate to liberal

Catholics, who are very ecumenical, even some of my conservative

Catholic friends would be ecumenical and would view me as a separated brother. Depending upon who the

Catholic is, a more conservative Catholic might tell me, and some have, that I am very much so in danger of hellfire because I was a

Roman Catholic that left the Catholic Church. And they would put it in a totally different category.

Somebody was born and raised in a Protestant home. But the thing that I don't understand is how can they view the fact that the

Council of Trent was defined dogma in the 16th century that has never been revoked, it's never been repealed, and yet even though the

Council of Trent clearly anathematizes everyone who believes in a gospel by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone, how on earth could they call us separated brethren today?

And isn't this one of the struggles we have when we are discussing the gospel with our

Catholic friends because we are viewed as being mean -spirited and bigoted and hateful because they are welcoming us as separated brethren, but they don't see the fact that their church is really speaking out of both sides of its mouth, if you will.

It's holding on to Trent and yet reaching out to us with a handshake of fellowship with Vatican II.

Am I making sense to you? Yes, they do that, and not only do they do that since Vatican II, they also accept

Muslims and Buddhists. They say that they have a form of godliness and spirituality too that must be recognized, and they say of the

Muslims that they have the same faith of Abraham that we have, and that's officially in the

Catholic charism too, that the Muslims, they look on fellowship with Muslims, and so it is even that this present

Pope Francis that we'll be talking about in the second hour, he recognizes the

Muslims. So if you're recognized by the Catholic church as an evangelical, know that they recognize the

Muslims also, and you see the horrific things that the Muslims have done here in the United States and of course worldwide and with ISIS and all the continuing horrors that go on with Islam.

And haven't most Roman Catholics really stretched beyond credulity what was originally meant by invincible ignorance?

It seems that nearly everyone who has some faith in a god, whatever that god may be, but is not

Roman Catholic, they'll typically put them in the category of invincible ignorance in order to say that they are likely saved and so on.

But isn't that really stretching? Isn't that the liberal modern Catholic stretching beyond recognition what the

Catholic church even meant by that originally? Definitely, definitely, definitely. And that the

Catholic church has gone way beyond what it started out in ecumenism. Most of that happened under John Paul II, and he was notorious for that.

And actually going to mosques and all in his day. It was horrendous what he did in his day.

Well maybe you could, before we go to our second hour, where we're going to be specifically talking about Pope Francis, Rome's most liberal pontiff, perhaps you could summarize the difference between the way to eternal life that is written about in the inerrant word of God, and the way to eternal life as Rome defines it, before we go to our next break and start our second hour on Pope Francis.

Yes, that is good. The Catholic church, basing on tradition and the

Bible, says that grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons.

It says that officially in paragraph 2021 of the New Catechism. So it's purely a help, you have to do it.

And it is you make your decision, like the evangelicals say, grace is merely a help.

And they say that faith, the faith that you have, comes from the church, not from God.

They say in paragraph 169, salvation comes from God alone, but because we receive the life of faith through the church, she is our mother.

And then they say the church is the mother of all believers, no one can have God as father who does not have the church as mother.

That's official Catholic teaching, paragraph 181 in the Catechism.

No one can have God as father who does not have the church as mother. So you must have a mother to have faith, that is no salvation message.

God is the one father in heaven, we do not have a mother, mother church.

And the scripture says God is the father in heaven, he is all holy and all perfect. It says believe on the

Lord Jesus and you shall be saved. We look to the perfect Christ Jesus, we see that we are dead in trespass and sin.

We see that we do not measure up, even one small lie is an utter imperfection before God and makes us unholy before him.

We look to Christ alone and by the gift of faith and grace we receive the new life.

And we give him the praise, the glory, the worship and honor. It's by grace through faith, it's God's gift and to him be the glory.

And praise God that this simple, clear, power -packed message has been effective right through the ages in the salvation of millions literally at the time of the

Reformation and since the day of Reformation and in all the biblical churches. The word going forth mightily, souls being saved.

And may souls be saved today to the glory of his grace. Again, love to hear from you. My email address, richardmbennett at yahoo .com.

That's Richard M. as in Michael Bennett, although I don't know if that's your middle name. It is?

Yes, Michael is my middle name. Oh, I guessed it right. Richard M. Bennett, that's

B -E -N -N -E -T -T at yahoo .com is Richard's personal email address and feel free to write to him and also remember that his website address is bereanbeacon .org

that's B -E -R -E -A -N -B -E -A -C -O -N dot

O -R -G. I'd also like to remind you that a couple of our sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron carry

Richard's books. First of all, Solid Ground Christian Books, solid -ground -books .com,

solid -ground -books .com and last but not least,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Services, which is located just about a 10 -minute walk from where I'm sitting,

C -V -B -B -S dot com. That's C -V for Cumberland Valley, B -B for Bible Book, S for service dot com.

And you can contact either of them for any of Richard's books.

In fact, Solid Ground Christian Books has a couple of other things that they publish that you are involved in either writing or editing, do they not?

Including the story of Converted Nuns. Yes, recently, just about two months before I moved to where I am now in Yakima, they published a dynamic book called

On the Wings of Grace Alone, the testimonies of 30 converted

Catholics. It's a dynamic book. Some people say it's the best of all the books we have done.

It's On the Wings of Grace Alone. So look to the Solid Ground Christian Books and look for On the

Wings of Grace Alone. Those testimonies are utterly powerful. For ordinary Catholics that anybody would know in everyday life, many of them here from the

States, but some from overseas, it is just a dynamic book, and that's a joy to my heart that that book is selling quite well too.

And you also, as I mentioned, have one about the testimonies of nuns, correct? Oh yes, we have about 20 nuns, and that's precious because those nuns, again, utterly devout living, devout nunnery, and they found that it's one of the ones that touches your heart more deeply.

And in editing that book and reading those books, those testimonies that came to me initially, it touched my heart more deeply than any testimonies

I've ever read to see how these devout nuns did not know the Lord in all their convent life and how they joyously came and how they explained it.

It was such a joy to read those testimonies initially and then to have them published in that book.

And once again, those websites are solid -ground -books .com solid -ground -books .com

and also cvbbs .com cv for Cumberland Valley bbs for Bible Book Service .com

And we thank both of those book outlets for helping

Iron Sharpens Iron to remain on the air. And we're going to be right back after these messages with Richard Bennett for the second hour of our discussion.

And the second hour will be on Pope Francis, Rome's most liberal pontiff. Don't go away.

We'll be right back. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

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That's the Thriving story. Welcome back.

This is Chris Orrins. And once again, we apologize for some of the technical difficulties that we've been experiencing the last two days.

And perhaps this is Satan's assault on my studio. But we thank

God and His sovereignty obviously wants the program to continue because it's on. And I want to remind you that our email address here is chrisarnson at gmail .com

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com And please include your first name, your city and state, and the country from where you reside if you're outside of the

USA. And right now we are beginning our second hour with Richard Bennett.

Richard Bennett is the founder and director of bereanbeacon .org.

That's B -E -R -E -A -N -B -E -A -C -O -N .O -R -G. He is a former

Roman Catholic priest who, by God's grace, approximately 30 years ago was saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone.

And we are discussing now for the second hour of our broadcast, specifically

Pope Francis, Rome's most liberal pontiff. And I would like to start in a minute with one of our, actually it was our very first listener question that was emailed to us.

Ted from Tuscaloosa, Alabama says, I'd like to get

Brother Bennett's take on this. How did Pope Francis get elected? Were his left -wing leanings not well known, or has the

College of Cardinals, largely selected by John Paul II and Pope Benedict, taken a hard left turn in a very short time?

Very good question from Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Yes, if anybody really knew the answer to that, they would be the cardinals and those who were there for that election and the shenanigans and the things that go on there before the election of the

Pope have been intimated in some ways, as I remember in David Yalop's book,

In God's Name. And you find it's why this man who was not really known at all, how could he come forward and be elected?

I think the answer is those cardinals and the shenanigans that go on there, that conflate before somebody is elected.

And they wanted this man who they had known was a charmer down in Argentina and lived through some of the difficulties they had there in Argentina and came out charming his way.

They wanted somebody to take over from the rigorous rottinger and the 16th who was there before him was very rigorous and very dictatorial.

They wanted a charmer and they got him. That would have been my easy answer, but the answer would really only be known with those cardinals there at the enclave where they elected him.

And what other details to start off this hour would you like to share with us regarding Pope Francis, regarding Jorge Mario Bergoglio and so on?

Going back to the very election which was brought up there by the question, he chose the name

Francis to honor Francis of Assisi. St. Francis was known to be a soft -hearted lover of nature and known for his humility and gentleness.

And so this was the image that he was building up of himself in the public eye that he was going to be humble and gentle and harmless and kind.

And so this was the image that the media took up, you know, the television stations and the

Internet and on and on. It was the unassuming, gentle, loving man who would be charming and he took up his residence and he was now not going to live in the plush

Vatican apartments. He was going to take a much smaller suite in the Vatican and to live humbly.

And he had paid his own bill at the hotel bill where he was staying there in Rome during the elections and he was graciously welcomed there even by the previous

Pope Benedict XVI. And it looked so good. Here we have this humble man taking over and there's public images accepted as humble and gentle and genuine and thoughtful.

And this was the old image from the very beginning that he set at the election why he chose the name

Francis. And as I said before, Jorge Mario Bergoglio chose the name

Pope Francis. Jorge Mario Bergoglio was Pope Francis' name before being elected

Pope. That is correct, yes. And he has endeared himself to the hearts of many people because of this legendary

St. Francis who is gentle, meek and mild and an advocate for the poor and all those types of things.

Well, what can you tell our listeners about what

Pope Francis stated at his inaugural address? Yes, that is very important,

Chris. On March 19, 2013, he showed a different face than what he was claiming to be when before thousands of people crammed into St.

Peter's Square and to millions across the world who listened by television, radio and of course on the

Internet itself. This new Pope stated, Dear Brothers and Sisters, I thank the

Lord that I can celebrate this Holy Mass for the inauguration of my

Petrine Ministry. Francis knew that the power embedded in the

Pope was what's called Petrine Ministry. The official teaching of the Catholic Church which

I referred to in the Catechism of the Catholic Church in the first hour is very clear what the

Petrine Ministry is. Quotation from Paragraph 882,

For the Roman Pontiff by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, namely as Pastor of the entire

Church, has full, supreme and universal power over the whole

Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.

So this power, he was saying that he now had the inauguration of this papal power that the

Roman Church spells out. It was significant that he thanked God for my

Petrine Ministry. He now is the one with the supreme, absolute power.

And so he was thanking God that he was now Peter's successor, so -called

Peter's successor, full, supreme and universal power over the whole Church. Historically, of course, we're not even sure that Peter was in Rome itself, let alone he certainly was not in any supreme position.

There were many pastors in the different churches in Rome at that time. And I lay that out in other articles and videos that I've made.

But here he is boasting of his Petrine from his very inaugural

Mass. And he was a mere mortal man. And he's claiming that he has this

Petrine dogmatic authority. And then he says at the end, he says a prayer at the very end of his inaugural address.

He says, I implore the intercession of the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, St.

Peter and Paul, St. Francis, and that the Holy Spirit may accompany my ministry.

He asked Mary, St. Joseph, St. Peter and Paul, St.

Francis, that the Holy Spirit may accompany my ministry, his ministry. He doesn't pray to Almighty God.

He prays to dead saints. And the

Scripture is emphatic not to call up the dead. If you get your Bible and go to Deuteronomy chapter 18, verses 10 and 11, we're not to call up the dead.

It's forbidden in the Scripture to call up the dead. But he calls up the dead. No matter how glorious, and we praise

God for the glory of Mary, the mother of the Lord, her glorious act of faith, her glorious life and her example, we do not talk to her or pray to her.

We pray only to God. And we do not talk to Peter or Paul or Francis.

So this is an abomination that he called up the dead. And that's very offensive against God.

And so this is how he began his inaugural mass at his inauguration as Pope.

Well, yeah, and obviously the Roman Catholic Church will retort to that.

Roman Catholics individually will retort to that, saying that, well, we believe that our beloved brothers and sisters who lived before us and who have gone to heaven are still alive.

Therefore, we're not communicating with the dead. They're still alive. By doing so, they're really rendering the word dead meaningless, because Samuel in the

Old Testament was alive in the afterlife, too. But it was still an abomination and an evil and wicked thing for Saul to seek to contact him through a medium.

Yes, we do not spiritually contact anybody but God. And to say that we make contact with the dead is an abomination.

If you study the text Deuteronomy 18, verses 10 and 11, it's an abomination.

And then he actually went on soon after that, on March 20th.

Can I go on and explain that? Oh, yeah, sure. He went on to address the leaders of the world soon afterwards.

He addressed the religious leaders of the world on March 20th, 2013.

He said, first of all, and I'll give the exact words that he said. First of all, I thank my brother, that's

Bartholomew I, very much for what he said. Thank you very much.

Thank you. It is a cause for particular joy to meet today with you, delegates of the

Orthodox churches, Oriental churches, and ecclesial communities of the

West. For my part, I wish to assure you, in the wake of my predecessors, of my determination to continue on the path of ecumenical dialogue.

And here Francis is talking about his working together with these

Orthodox churches in ecumenical dialogue.

And it is horrendous when you see what the Orthodox church has done in the way of theology, and how ornate they are, and how they are in icons and pictures of Christ, much more even than the

Roman church. You see what they did. If you don't know about Orthodoxy, go on our webpage and go to the

Greek Orthodoxy section, where we lay out the Orthodox theology and what they believe.

And you see just how horrendous, not just in Paris and in the buildings that they use, but in the teaching most of all is horrendous, that he is going to be in dialogue with them.

And so he said on March 20, 2013, and then he said,

I ask, dear brothers and sisters, to bring my cordial greetings and assurance of my remembrance in the

Lord to the churches and Christian communities here represented. I then greet cordially all our dear friends belonging to religious traditions.

First of all, the Muslims who worship the one God, living and merciful, and call upon him in prayer and all of you.

He called upon the Muslims, other religious traditions. He was shown his ecumenism, his working together spiritually, not just with the

Orthodox, but also with the Muslims. And it's an abomination when you know what the

Muslim religion stands for and the horrendous acts of total immorality in what they have done to the women of their churches, and in particular, but those who have embraced

Christianity and those who stand against them, infidel that they call them, the abominations that they have done and the horrendous acts of evil, including 9 -11, the horrors done here in the

United States, and elsewhere, what's happening with ISIS and the Muslim community at the moment, and the horrors that have been inflicted on many nations of the world.

When we see that he accepts them spiritually, this Pope Francis, we see what a character he is.

He is accepting what is the closest that we could see satanic evil as represented in religion with the

Muslims. And he's doing it publicly, and he did it publicly, unofficially.

And it's so horrific that we can lack any words to say how horrific it was.

I mean, he was showing his true Jesuit colors. He's not humble and kind and gentle as was

Pope Francis, they say. He is shown dogmatic, sticking to Romanism and accepting the

Muslim faith, which he did officially in the Catholic Catechism, and now to Allah, and to accepting

Allah. There's only one God, Father in Heaven, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent, the power of the

Holy Spirit, the one God in three persons. Praise God, there's no other

God, and there's no Allah to be worshipped equally with the sovereign

God of the Scriptures. This is what this so -called good man did.

He showed his true colors on that day, and how horrific it was.

We do have another listener, this one from Santa Rosa, California.

We've been titling this interview today, this part of the interview, as your assessment of Pope Francis, Rome's most liberal pontiff.

And Hugh from Santa Rosa, California asks, Is Pope Francis I actually any more liberal than his past two predecessors?

He seems bent on casting the Romish faith in a more tolerant light, more concerned about social issues such as climate change, divorces, and the mass, homosexuality, and the impoverished.

But is the message of Francis I essentially different from that of John Paul II's or Benedict XVI's?

And I think that the Catholic Church doesn't add the first after a pope if he's still living and there's no other pope by that name, right?

It would just be Pope Francis, not Pope Francis I, right? That's correct. Do you have an answer to Hugh's question from Santa Rosa, California?

That's an excellent question, because that is true. It's unbelievable we have somebody more liberal than John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

He is orderly and he has given his stamp of approval in very slick,

Jesuitical ways where he says it and he doesn't say it, so he cannot be accused of going against official

Catholic teaching, his acceptance of homosexuality and of other things which were totally abhorrent to previous popes.

He has gone way beyond other popes and he's out to please and now he's come on the bandwagon of climate change and we know how liberals have run after this so -called climate change and he's done that.

I've just made a whole video where that is the first topic I bring up. It is the cunning genius of the

Vatican Papal system and it's only posted two days but that video has become really, really growing and many people have watched it.

I would ask you to watch that video because I show truly who

Francis really is in that video but I show the platform on which he works, the system.

This man would not be anything were it not for the fact that he has the papal system to work out of.

It's the system itself and how that system developed over the years and I go back to the 5th and 6th century,

I trace through the centuries how the whole system was built historically, how it got its stamp of approval from Justinian, the emperor who needed some stability as Rome was falling apart with the barbarian invasions and on and on.

I give the whole history of Romanism and show how horrific the system is and while we have this horrific now leader pretending to be so nice and so shrewdly

Jesuit at the same time, he's just one on the stage of the platform of the system.

So look at the system itself, it's worse than Pope Francis and maybe someday we might do a program,

Chris, on just the system itself irrespective of the Pope but surely he is more liberal as that writer from Santa Rosa, California said.

That was an excellent, excellent email that we got from him. Great. Well, we have already heard something about the priesthood in our first hour when you were discussing your testimony and we all know just how important Catholic priests are to the

Roman Catholic system. If you could tell our listeners specifically what Pope Francis has stated regarding Catholic priests.

Yes, he stated that he was going to embrace the priests and that he gave his exact words.

I want to turn, because I want to quote his exact words and I wrote an article on this and I want to go to that article where I can give the exact words that he spoke about the priesthood.

Just give me a second here. While you're looking that up, I'm going to announce our email address again.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And if you're writing, please include your first name, your city and state of residence and if you're outside of the

USA, your country of residence. And by the way, we have already received the four eligible listeners who have already won the free copies of Far From Rome, Near to God edited by Richard Bennett that have been provided so graciously and generously from the

Banner of Truth which has a United States office also very close to where I'm sitting right now in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And we thank them so much for giving us these copies for our first four listeners who had questions suitable to be read on air for the discussion today.

And by the way, I would love to hear from Roman Catholics if you are listening. We haven't heard from any that I know of.

I didn't detect anything in the questions from our listeners so far that would indicate that they were

Roman Catholic. Perhaps some of them were, I don't know. But we would love to hear from Roman Catholics or anyone for that matter on the subject of Pope Francis right now.

And you may also ask a general question about Catholicism. Please only remain anonymous if it's involving a personal, private, intimate matter and you want to remain anonymous due to family relationships with the

Church of Rome and so on and other issues that would lend to wanting to remain anonymous.

chrisarnson at gmail .com If you want to continue now, Richard? Yes, yes.

It was on April the 21st, 2013 that he expressed his belief in the tradition of the existence of priests in the

Church of God. And I give you the exact quotation of what he said on that day in April the 21st, 2013.

Quotation, It is true that God made his entire people a royal priesthood in Christ.

Nevertheless, our great priest himself, Jesus Christ, chose certain disciples to carry out publicly in his name on behalf of mankind a priestly office in the

Church. For Christ was sent by the Father and he, in turn, sent the apostles into the world so that through them and their successors, the bishops, he might continue to exercise his office of teacher, priest, and shepherd.

Indeed, priests are established co -workers of the order of bishops with whom they are joined in the priestly office and with whom they are called to the service of the people of God.

End of quotation. So he believed in priests and he believed that there can be priests in the

New Testament times and in the Church, that there can be priests. We're not talking about pastors, we're talking about priests who have priestly power.

And we see that in the Bible there is only one eternal high priest and we see that his priesthood was unchangeable.

Parabatis was the word used in Greek. It was not transferable. His priesthood was untransferable in Scripture.

The apostles, when they died, their power was not transferred to anybody else.

It was only a priesthood, a sacrificial priesthood in the Old Testament there were priests.

In the New Testament there are no priests. There's just the royal priesthood of all believers that Francis refers to at the beginning of this.

But that's the only priesthood of believers. There's no physical men who are priests and that they offer the sacrifice.

And the Catholic Church reports that the sacrifice of the Mass is offered at the

Mass and that the priest offers the Mass. They say in the

Catechism of the Catholic Church, in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated at the

Mass, the same Christ who offered himself in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in a non -bloody manner.

Christ is offered. And so the priest at Mass is offering Christ. Not was offered, is.

So he is a priest. There's no such priest in the New Testament. That would be completely unacceptable.

It is completely unacceptable. This is what Francis holds, that there is a priesthood. And there's only one eternal priest.

Praise God. His name is Jesus Christ. And there's no other priesthood. That was an

Old Testament priesthood. We do not have any priest. We have pastors. And the Scripture is emphatic.

You read all the epistles of Paul. We read about elders, like in the epistle of Peter and others.

There's elders, those who supervise the Church and preach in the name of Christ from the

Scriptures alone. But there's no priesthood. But the Catholic Church holds it. And Francis upholds it.

And on that day there, on April 21, 2013, he has said it emphatically.

And this is deceptive. Jesuit lies of deception.

No such priesthood exists. And of course, this is not unique to Pope Francis. This is just a general teaching of the

Church of Rome. It is just a teaching of Rome. He was just reiterating the Church of Rome.

That's right. That is just a teaching of the Church of Rome. And it is quite concerning that even some of our

Anglican friends and brethren use the term priest.

And they use the excuse that it comes from presbytos. Forgive me if I'm pronouncing that wrong.

But the Greek word for presbyter, they say that that became a nickname, priest.

That's really a slippery way of validating the use of that term, isn't it?

Yes, yes, yes. But that word does not mean, in Greek does not mean, it means an elder and has nothing to do with a sacrificial priesthood.

All right, we're going to be going to another break. And please shoot us an email if you have a question for Richard Bennett on Pope Francis or a general question on the

Catholic Church. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.

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Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Welcome back. This is Chris Arns.

And if you just tuned us in, our guest today has been Richard Bennett, former Roman Catholic priest who has been saved by the grace of God, by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone.

And he is the founder and director of bereanbeacon .org. That's B -E -R -E -A -N -B -E -A -C -O -N dot

O -R -G. And we are discussing right now in our second hour Pope Francis, Rome's most liberal pontiff.

We have a question from Dan in Globe, Arizona. Are you part of a fellowship of former

Catholic priests? And is the Catholic, it's a two -part question here, or a three -part question.

Is the Catholic Church devoid of the gospel? And can someone hear the gospel in the

Catholic Church? Well, obviously, I don't know about the first part, about you being a part of a specific fellowship of a former

Catholic priest. You could answer that. But going first to the question about the gospel in the

Catholic Church, even though their Douay -Rheims and other versions of the Bible are not the best translations that one could read, and they include the

Apocrypha and so on, there's still the gospel in there, though, isn't there? Good question.

About the fellowship, it's amazing the fellowship we have as true believers. It's in the spirit.

I'm just amazed right across the world to see the fellowship that we have with other true believers.

I thank God. If you go on our webpage and it's been redesigned, you will see that I go out not just in English but in 12 other languages.

And it's amazing the fellowship that we have and the people we have working with us in these nations and right across the

United States and the Western world by email and by telephone sometimes.

It's amazing the fellowship we have and the joy it is. I thank God that I have people working together with me because I'm getting up in age now, and I could not.

When I said you could email me, I get help, too, from some dear brothers who help me with emails, and it's not always

I get so many hundreds of emails that I can answer them all personally. I have some brothers who help me.

But the fellowship we have together in the Lord is really part of the joy unspeakable and full of glory, part of our salvation, because we're all one in Christ, and that is really, really, really glorious.

And the second part of the question was, what was it now, Chris, that he wanted to know? Is the gospel present in the

Catholic Church? Now, obviously, they have a false gospel because they themselves have anathematized those of us who are heirs of the

Reformation, and if we believe our gospel is true and biblical, obviously theirs must be false.

If they are open and honest enough to say that we have a different one, they have a different gospel.

It's based on tradition and the Bible, not the Bible alone. And then it's by rituals, by the sacraments, and as we discussed before, it's by grace that we're saved.

It's God's grace. It's his call. It's not our choice. It's his. And it's the false gospel.

But I thank God for that call, and it's really important to know and to sense our unity in Christ, and I thank

God that we are one with that dear brother who called, that we're one in the Spirit, and one day we'll be one in glory in heaven and joy fellowship together face to face in glory while we will see

Christ as he is and fellowship with Christ and through Christ, with the

Father and the Holy Spirit. But we will have fellowship with one another, and I look forward to the fellowship we will have in heaven.

The wonderful fellowship we have here on earth is just a foretaste of that wonderful fellowship we will have in heaven.

And I would like to get on to... Well, you can get on in a minute. We do have 20 minutes left.

But I just wanted to quickly, though, he was specifically asking is the gospel anywhere found even though it is covered with...

Oh, yes, that was a good question. It is found, and I thank God for that.

I'm sorry. I'm sure that's the point I should have dwelt on. It is found that people who are

Catholics can hear the gospel. I heard the gospel when I was in the

Catholic Church. The former nuns were all Roman Catholics in the book that we have of 20 former nuns, the amazing grace in their lives.

They heard the gospel in the Catholic Church. They were still Catholics. The book that we've just produced of the 30 former ordinary

Catholics of ordinary everyday life Catholics that we would meet, they heard the gospel. They heard the gospel message.

And praise God, there are many thousands upon thousands that hear the gospel day after day, year by year.

And the multitude... There's more Catholics saved than any other out of any other system that is not biblical.

And I thank God for that. And the joy we have with former Catholics, it's just stupendous.

We had a conference way back in John MacArthur's church, the Grace Church there in L .A.,

where we met former priests and nuns and everything. It was a great, great joy.

That was way back in the 90s. I think it was about 1907. And we should have a big conference like that again sometime because it's just wonderful.

Those of us who heard the gospel while we were Catholics, God's word goes forth, and more

Catholics are saved, more thousands of them, than any other system. And a consistent fact is that they all leave the

Catholic Church. They could not stay in a church that prays equally to God and to Mary and to the saints.

They could not stay in a church where Christ is resacrificed at the mouth and where he's purportedly physically in the communion bread.

They could not stay in a church that has idolatry all around it. They could not stay in a church that does not teach the scriptures, and so they leave.

And sometimes it took a while, like Bob Bush, the first testimony in the priest book, a dear, dear brother, and he was close to my own heart until he died a few years ago.

He stayed in actually two years before he actually saw that he had to leave.

I think he's probably the one, the longest that I know, who stayed in afterwards and then saw that he could not continue to stay in.

And mostly it's within, like with myself, it was a few months. And those testimonies of 50 former priests, it's a remarkable book because you get each man and how the

Lord looked after them. Remember, we didn't have finances, we didn't have a trade, we didn't have anything to fall back.

How those priests made it afterwards financially, physically, and where they found residence, it's amazing.

Read the book. This is real life, and it's real history, and real documented testimonies.

Read the testimony books. Wonderful to see. And we all heard the word in the Catholic Church. That was an excellent question, and thank you for reminding me of the question, and that is the answer.

Yes, we heard the gospel in the Catholic Church. Praise God. The power of God unto salvation breaks through into the

Catholic Church and many thousands upon thousands, more than of any other institution that is not

Catholic. And the very fact that we have brothers and sisters in Christ from centuries past that were martyred by the

Catholic Church shows that the gospel could have been found and can be found in the

Catholic Church. Yes, they lived 605 years of the Inquisition.

They were people in the Catholic Church who believed in Christ alone, and they were tortured and put to death.

And please look at that video on that, because it's probably the best, most professional video that has ever been made under our ministry, the

Inquisition, tools of torture there on the Internet. It will be viewed over half a million times by the end of this year.

Yeah, I don't want to break your train of thought, because I know that you wanted to say something earlier or continue on a different subject there.

But you very frequently hear Roman Catholics retort when we bring up Fox's Book of Martyrs and we bring up the many thousands of martyrs that the

Catholic Church tortured and murdered for things like reading the Bible in their own language and other amazingly innocent and good things.

They will retort that Protestantism has killed their fair share of individuals and made martyrs themselves.

Is there really, though, a numeric, from your knowledge of history, is there a numeric comparison that really even makes that a meaningful retort?

And isn't it true that most of the killing of Roman Catholics by Protestants was done by the

Church of England? And when you really think about the numeric martyrs, or martyrs numerically, wasn't it really

Protestants killing other Protestants more than they were killing Roman Catholics? That is true, yes. Particularly the

Covenanters that the English Church did. And it is really sad. I went to Edinburgh and you see the graves there of the thousands of people who had been killed.

They were really so -called Bible believers killing Bible believers. The Church of England was supposed to be a

Bible -believing church. And it wasn't. And numerically, there's no...

That was thousands. The Catholic Church, the persecuting from the time of Pope Innocent III, with the beginning of the

Inquisition, is documented to be 50 million. Not thousands, 50 million.

Wow. And you can see that. That is not exaggerated. You can see that's not just some history books.

You will see I give a list of different history books on the Inquisition.

It's in the millions. And it most possibly was 50 million or a little bit more.

So it's amazing. And you can go to what I've written on that on our internet webpage, and also you'll see the video itself, the

Inquisition. And of course, you and I, being from more of a Reformed Baptistic background, or Reformed Baptist background, we don't believe that it was ever right, even for professing

Bible -believing Christians, to execute anyone, no matter how heretical they were. Correct? Yeah.

There's no biblical mandate whatsoever. Those Church of England people were really, really murdering.

It was murder, and there were tombs in the name of God. It really was horrific in the most deepest sense of that word.

I must say how horrified I was in those days in Edinburgh where I saw the actual places and the graves.

It was heart -rendering and utterly sad.

But again, they were in the thousands. Catholic Church was in the millions. Wow. Now, I don't know if you wanted to speak about something else, but I know that people speak well of Pope Francis as a historian.

They say that he has a great knowledge of Christian history. Is that true? He has a history, and actually he mentioned it on his sermon on April the 23rd.

He mentioned actually the very earliest history, and I'd like to read his exact words.

He said, But some in Jerusalem, when they heard this, became nervous and sent

Barnabas. He saw that things were going well, and so the Church was a mother, the mother of more children, of many children.

It became more and more a mother. The Church became more and more a mother, a mother who gives us the faith, a mother who gives us an identity.

To be a Christian is not an identity card. Christian identity is belonging to the

Church because all of these belong to the Church, the Mother Church, because it is not possible to find

Jesus outside the Church. And the Mother Church that gives us

Jesus gives us our identity. That is not only a seal, it is belonging.

Identity means belonging. This is belonging to the Church is beautiful.

Think of this Mother Church that grows and grows with new children to whom she gives identity of faith because you cannot believe in Jesus without the

Church. This is what he said. You cannot believe in Jesus without the

Church. And this is the teaching, the official teaching of the Catholic Church that was emphasized going back to the earliest days of Christianity and history that way by Pope Francis saying it's

Mother Church. You cannot be a Christian without belonging to the

Church. You cannot believe in Jesus without the Church. And this is exactly the official

Catholic teaching that Francis was saying. Paragraph 181 in the

Catechism. Believing is an ecclesial act. The Church's faith proceeds in gender, support, and nourishment of faith.

The Church is the mother of all believers. No one can have God as father, does not have the Church as mother. You must believe in Mother Church first.

In Scripture, it's no church. It's belief on the Lord Jesus Christ directly.

And you shall be saved. It's an insult to Scripture, it's an insult to the Lord Jesus Christ.

No church saves. No church gives us faith.

Our faith is in a person, not in an institution. Our faith is in Christ Jesus, and it's glorious.

It is, we are, we believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved as Christ himself said.

This is everlasting life. This is what Christ said. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

Whoever should believe on him should not perish but should have everlasting life. This is the Gospel.

It's not any system we believe in. There's no system gives us the faith. It's God gives us the faith and the grace.

And praise God for that. And that is true message of the

Gospel. And that has been historical right through the ages. Men and women have believed. And multitudes have come to salvation.

And we thank God that multitudes come out of the Catholic Church into true faith. Not by believing another church.

No, but by believing the person of Jesus. It's no church. We do not get the church mixed up with Christ.

We do not have to have a mother before we can have a father. God is a father.

We do not need any mother church around. God is the father. And praise God. And I have a wonderful tract

I'm preparing. When the Pope comes in September, this Francis, I have a tract called, Who is

Your Holy Father? And it's probably the most powerful tract that I have done. And litmin .org,

if you go on the webpage, litmin .org, or email Doug there, doug at litmin .org,

find out about that tract. It's going to be one of the more powerful tracts. Beautifully produced.

Beautiful color. Beautiful professionally made. Who is Your Holy Father? And this is to greet

Pope Francis when he comes here in September. And particularly those on the East Coast and those in Philadelphia, I'd urge you to get this tract.

And please email Doug at that, at litmin .org. Doug at litmin .org.

You want to know about this tract. Now, having said what you said about the Catholic Church exalting the role of the church in the salvation of men, it disturbs me that there are, and I'm sure it disturbs you as well, that there are many people who are professed

Bible -believing Christians who say, I don't need a church at all. And they don't belong to any church.

They're not subject to the authority of any elders. They are lone wolves roaming around thinking too highly of themselves.

They don't need any teachers. They think that their own brain is adequate enough to read the

Scriptures and discern what's in there on their own. Now, obviously, you and I do believe that it's possible for people without a church to come to saving faith in Christ.

There are people even in Muslim homes and so on who hear the gospel and are saved. But the church is an important institution in the

Scriptures that we are being disobedient if we're not a member of a local church, aren't we? Yes, the

Scripture says emphatically not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together. And that is under the leadership of an elder or a pastor.

And that's what we must do. And that's what Bible -believers have done. And it's that we are a body of Christ.

Together you are the body of Christ. All those wonderful Scriptures, it's God's people together are the body of Christ.

And the body comes together to worship the Father and to worship in Christ Jesus and to receive the communion together, you know, at the

Lord's table where we have spiritual communion with the Lord. And all of this is done as church.

And so I urge all of you who are Bible -believers to find a good Christian church in your locality.

Sometimes, and some even in big cities here in the United States, it's hard to find a true

Bible -believing church because of the false evangelicalism that's gone around. But you will find a good fellowship of believers somewhere whereby they have.

It may be a church meeting in a house or a home. And meet there until that can be built up into a solid church where more like traditionally has its own building and everything.

But we can find true Bible -believers in every place. And we come together around the world.

And we commune together. And one takes the position of teaching the others as the position of pastor or elder.

And that is all biblical. And that's all laid out particularly in the letters of Paul to Timothy.

And we find all those principles in 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy. We have a listener in Redding, California, who wants to know if you fear the

Roman Catholic Church pronouncing on you excommunication and anathema.

I have no fear. I have no fear of any pronouncement by a church that is not biblical.

I have no fear whatsoever. My place is in Christ. The solid rock

I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. I have no fear whatsoever. And I trust the protection of Almighty God.

And I don't presume I am always praying for the protection of Almighty God. But I trust it.

I don't fear any curses or anathemas from any church institution. Especially since we're living in a day and age where you're not going to be tortured and executed.

No. I am thankful that I do not get many hate emails from Roman Catholic people.

I do get many Roman Catholic inquiring of me. And I've had priests who have emailed me from the

Catholic Church inquiring. And I'm thankful for that. And I'm very, very thankful for that.

And if there are priests listening, please email me. I give you my email address, which is bennett .yahoo

.com. And if I take a while, know that we get very, very many hundreds of emails. And we'll get to you eventually after all our emails.

But I would love to hear from you. Because many, many Catholics do come.

But there's no church. But we do meet together as a church body because we are one in Christ.

Thank you, Glenn, from Redding, California, for that question. Isn't it strange? Doesn't the

Roman Catholic Church believe you still, as a non -Roman Catholic, still have the priestly powers to consecrate a host?

Yes. They believe that once you're a priest, you're always a priest. You have an indelible mark on you.

I have got some funny, I shouldn't say funny, but humorous, in the sense that people ask me to say,

Dear Father Bennett, oh, dear Father. But according to the Church of Rome's own teaching, you can never lose that power.

I am still a priest. And that is ludicrous. I don't claim there's no power in the

Catholic priesthood. It doesn't work. It's all a charade. There's no power. It's all a mockery because there's no power.

And I explained how horrendous it was to see, in those 21 years I had of implementing the sacrament, how they didn't deliver in those years in Trinidad.

And I'd ask you to read my testimony, or you can get the booklet of my testimony, and it gives the details.

And we're out of time, Richard. BereanBeacon .org is the website. BereanBeacon .org.

And I hope you all always remember that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.

Thank you so much, Richard Bennett, for being our guest today. And God bless everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in with questions.