December 1, 2016 Show with Yogi Taylor on “Christian Answers for Addiction Emancipation”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity who are

living on the planet earth listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this

first day of December 2016.

I'm delighted to have someone on the program who is quite the celebrity,

legendary baseball hall of famer Yogi Berra is on our program today.

I'm sorry, what did you say?

He did?

He did?

Last year?

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

Then who do we have on today?

Oh, okay, we have today legendary cartoon character Yogi Berra on the program today.

No?

Oh, I'm sorry.

We have on the program today Yogi Taylor, director of Home of Grace

Addiction Recovery and we are going to be discussing Christian answers for addiction

emancipation and if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Yogi

Taylor, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R

-I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com and please give us your first name, your city and

state of residence or your country of residence if you live outside the USA and obviously it goes without saying

that this subject lends itself to many of you perhaps wanting

or preferring to remain anonymous when you write in a question.

So obviously we will honor your request if this is about a personal and private matter perhaps

involving your own addiction or the addiction of someone you love and we will obviously not

identify you by name when you write in but if you can let

us know at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence we would love to know that.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron, Yogi Taylor.

Thank you, thank you.

And Yogi, before we even go into the home of grace addiction

recovery, I'd like to know something about yourself.

I would like to know something about your upbringing, what kind of a religious atmosphere if any you were raised in

and what were the providential occurrences that the Lord brought about in your life that drew you to himself

and saved you?

Looked normal from the out some

abuse and

so lent

myself to rebellion and to giving myself

with addiction

and was not able to

that really did not high school went to four different

high schools got kicked out of two of them.

Finally, I landed myself the Alabama Shares

mom began to kind of make strides turned 18 and I

quit because I was thought I was making big

money.

I was making $10 an hour building cabinets for car.

I hit my thumb and I was bleeding and here

I am this guy's 18 and

ended up

getting a

scholar.

I don't want to

go back.

I don't want to

call it.

The guy said look,

he came back to me to

go to college and and I went to the

party did every every all the bad choices you think a man, but my situation will make I made all those bad

choices people I'd

gotten to.

I missed my ride to a kid

I was

walking down

my door

clanked on that

tile floor all the way down and everybody came out what

I was walking one of

those

guys

that

Bible

study talked

about how the

amen I

left a

little bit

early.

I was my

room my roommates

drive me crazy and nobody was

there.

I just realized that it was just amazing that

this this filth of the person I was that God could love me and I was 20 years

old.

I had 20 years of tears came out that and I said Lord, I don't know

why you'd want to you know, a dopehead drunk like myself, you know who can't get it right

again.

Yeah, so

amen.

Praise God.

Well, I want by the way when I think I want to.

Thank Melissa out there listening because she is the one that

referred me to Yogi and I hope that Melissa is being blessed by the

program today and I forget where Melissa is from.

Do you know where Melissa is from Yogi?

Yeah, I believe she's in Gulfport, Mississippi.

Okay.

Well, Melissa in Mississippi.

Thank you very much again for the recommendation for Yogi Taylor.

Well, you have brought us to the point where you have been saved by the

grace and mercy of Jesus Christ and where in your life,

what providential occurrences did God bring into your path that said

Yogi Taylor has got to become a staff member over at Home of Grace Addiction Recovery in Mississippi.

This is my

journey with the

Bible study actually took me under his wing and

he helped me to learn the gospel.

We read every day.

Really began to stand out

from from some of

the other friends I was making

they just

didn't have.

Lord was

the word love the word live

it.

And in that I began to kind of

grow in my learning what my gift didn't

put myself in you know be

under the you know the Lord

will be educated.

And to go in

ministry

came back one day

when we were in

mercy

ministries.

Have you considered.

The Lord may be calling you.

I said no

brother Paul.

I'm not I really.

Well and from that point on

evening chaplain the operations man the program director

left for

same man

who I

was

talking

Christian

counseling and being able to minister the gospel effectively

not just superficially but but to really get to the heart issue.

Amen.

Well that's

pretty a that's.

That's a very powerful testimony that you have there and the the Lord's remarkable amazing

transformation that he has demonstrated in your life.

Well I'm sure that before I forget a lot of our listeners want to know just a little bit of

trivia.

Did your parents name you after the.

Baseball legend the bear or the yoga instructor.

So everybody hasn't

called me.

They called me yogi bear.

It wasn't any big deal but when I went on to college and I accepted that

scholarship and went on to college I had one guy who called me yogi bear and so we went to

college.

Everybody's asking hey where are you from.

What's your major.

You know all that.

He he would always introduce me.

Hey I'm Kyle this is my buddy Yogi.

So in about two weeks the whole campus knew me as Yogi.

And as they say the rest is history.

Well it's it's interesting since it came from uh your involvement with baseball.

Were they mispronouncing Yogi Bear's name and calling you Yogi Bear.

Oh okay.

Um and uh the uh let's let's hear something about

uh exactly what type of a facility.

Because there are all as you know there are many different kinds of recovery facilities

uh both secular and christian and they have different ideologies

they have different mission statements they have different approaches to this very important life and

death issue.

Uh why don't you tell us something specifically about home of grace and and how how long it's been in

existence.

Sure it

was bill

barton.

He was

a man to talk

very good to people.

He he studied

many people that he would never be successful and that he

should probably you know put it.

And he pressed on.

Get him

sober.

Over time

things

have been

their money.

Praise god.

Yeah we we

take

uh

started a one

-time wheel

charger and uh what

goes

on there in

the day -to -day

lives

of lives of those.

Who are there.

Uh just so i can remind our listeners or perhaps even inform

some of them who don't know this.

I was rescued from addiction myself from addiction to alcohol.

Uh before i was saved i was an alcoholic very serious

drunkard which is a more biblical term i think um from the time i was

14 through my mid -20s and when i was saved

the lord removed that from my life.

Thankfully i was i was enjoying sobriety for 18 years.

And very sadly and tragically and much to my shame i

slid back into the abuse of alcohol to a very seriously

dangerous level of alcohol intake and abuse.

And i found recovery and rescue at hebron colony which i mentioned to you earlier

before the program.

Uh hebron colony in boone north carolina which is a wonderful recovery facility

christian recovery facility.

They are also not a clinical uh organization or ministry.

They they do not accept any money from the government.

And they also are strictly bible -based.

And uh just out of curiosity uh just wanted to compare some of the

similarities and differences that home of grace may have.

Like for instance we we all had jobs when we were at hebron colony you had to have a job that they

would assign to you.

I was the garbage man i used to do.

I was it was a really great job because i actually was able to drive nobody else could i used to

drive a garbage truck around pick up everybody's garbage and um

and bring it to a uh large uh bin uh but um i

had its downside but i think it was the best job on on the campus.

And uh well i was i was very much envied by all the other students.

We called them students.

Do you call them students at home of.

Grace.

Oh we call them clients or just men.

Okay referred to them often as the men.

Do you have jobs that they are assigned or how does that work.

Yeah.

Um what we do.

I'd be better if i just kind of explained kind of the overview.

Yes.

Definitely.

Definitely.

Uh we as far as the jobs part we we do what we call soft skills

so we're

not a work

therapy program.

It was a vital part

here.

We we have

just

job

etiquette.

Overview

of our program is in 90 days is 12 weeks.

If we

have come in individually every

week

90

days

they make

out the

day.

I

know

that's

a

mouthful

but

we accomplish

a.

Lot in 90 days is the uh the

chapel or are the chapel services mandatory.

They are.

Everything's mandatory everything we there's.

You have

to be a christian of any kind to or at least

become come from becoming from that background uh to uh enroll in this

uh ministry um mandatory anybody to be a.

Everybody know that we are

and these

guys

know

that.

So when

they come you know they're

somebody has

right.

Of course

you're in mississippi.

Uh i'm i'm sure one of the biggest problems that.

Any ministry or church in the heart of the bible belt would have is nominal christianity people who

think they're christian but they are dangerously wrong.

Am i right.

That's right.

Yeah we we

have a number

of folks amen and we're

going to a station

break

if

you'd like to

join us.

On the air.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa.

And you may remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

And i want to just give the website for home of grace.

In the event that i for i fail to do so later it's a very important thing to do.

Homeofgrace .org is the website for the ministry we are discussing today

homeofgrace .org.

They're also available on facebook.

But uh we hope to hear from you soon with your questions so don't go away we will be right back

with yogi taylor of home of grace.

I'm chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Welcome back.

This is chris arnes and if you just tuned us in our guest today is yogi taylor director of home of grace addiction

recovery in mississippi.

And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com and please give us your first name city and state and country of

residence.

And you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

And we do have uh melissa from gulfport mississippi.

I would love to hear yogi's thoughts on how his theology determines the way he deals with helping others caught up in

addiction.

I know there are differing thoughts as to whether addiction is a sin versus a disease so how

is how are how do his beliefs determine what camp he would

fall into.

A great question uh you know.

In the air you've got uh you've got the

secular and uh you know you

question you've got the secular and the christian and then

my theology.

But my theology

is

amen.

Um we do have a few that would not

consider but they are sound counts counselors as well

and they are biblical

in there.

When it comes

to is um

we are a hundred a hundred

percent it is

idea that that uh our addiction you

know i can't put you

know diabetes and you know my i love for math you know no it

just doesn't work.

And i look at the scriptures

amen.

We you know we

go straight to the heart of the issue and men have all kind of things that's.

What about this.

And so

that is the

heart now

that that is

not to

say.

Obviously i'm sure you would agree that this sin brings about disease and it

brings about uh physical uh physical

addiction that often requires medical attention.

So i'm not saying that this is a disease that warrants

those to merely pity those who are addicts.

They are to view this as a sin and it is a voluntary sin.

And it is a sin that will as the scriptures teach bring one to hell if they do not repent of

it.

But it does bring about obviously medical issues just because of the fact that you're you're

taking poison into your body.

Absolutely.

And and we.

Understand a

whole range of a lot

of guys

coming here not just years.

The truest biblical

sin.

We also talk you know not everything

fits.

All issues are spiritual issues

and we have amen and by the.

Way uh i don't know if we really made it clear what your role is specifically at home of grace.

Sure i'm

the program

manager uh

director

uh

accountable for

the day now

when i

went

uh.

To hebron colony in boone north carolina for my addiction recovery

uh i was in a minority being an alcoholic i was actually surprised by that

the vast majority of people there and i believe there were a 30 to 30

actually maybe 40 men there.

When i was there the vast majority were addicted to crack

heroin and oxycontin and perhaps some other pharmaceutical

legal pharmaceutical drugs that they were abusing and selling and all kinds of things.

And um out of that uh 40 uh man campus

there were only about three of us.

That were uh.

Drunkards.

Uh what's the uh typical reason people are going to

home of

grace.

Well

you

know

i and

is.

It strictly a facility or a ministry for substance abuse.

I mean you have all kinds of things that are cold addictions today that aren't don't involve substance abuse

but it is your facility or.

Ministry specifically and strictly substance abuse.

Well we we concentrate on addictions and so uh addiction and

substance pornography.

It could be gambling or any of these things.

Eating disorder.

The heart issues are

by

the

way melissa.

Thanks for that question.

Melissa from gulfport mississippi.

And also thanks again for introducing me to uh.

Yogi taylor and i almost said yogi bear believe it or not i had to stop myself.

Um we uh have uh a question from a pastor

in north carolina.

Sterling vander worker uh he's in greensboro north carolina.

Thanks for the show.

Thanks for the great show.

I have a question for you.

Like you i have a secular background and significant history of substance abuse.

Thank the lord.

He has saved me and kept me for over 40 years.

I have a friend who continues to struggle and stumble with drug abuse.

We have a minister.

We have ministered the gospel to this man for a number of years but he continues to

revert to his sin.

Perhaps a program like yours could be of benefit to him.

What separates your ministry from other gospel.

Substance

abuse

ministries.

Uh we

we

have a format here

and that is

when teaching

we

train

them

our

due diligence to come in the best

week.

Basically.

Place

here at

the home.

Well thank you pastor.

Sterling and uh send my greetings to the brethren and christ in your congregation in

greensboro north carolina.

We have uh a listener in hilltop lakes texas.

Linda i'm enjoying hearing yogi's conversion story in ministry.

I have a 10 year old grandson with severe dyslexia who is receiving two years of

training at scottish right in dallas texas.

I'm assuming that's affiliated with the masons.

Uh does does yogi have any special instructions for parenting of a child like

this having had learning disabilities himself.

Thank you god for this ministry of deliverance from addiction and hearing.

How it is being operated linda.

In hilltop lakes texas.

Question about this.

I appreciate

linda's

what was it after his

name.

Uh jack knackleson.

And

that was me one

thing that helped me and

this is just

linda i

don't

know if the

reading was very

i don't know if that helps there's other little things but i i hope that would be something that.

Would help linda out.

Well thank you so much linda and hilltop lake texas for for

contributing to the program.

With your question today.

In fact i'm starting to wonder are there any yankees listening to our program today.

We've got a listener from mississippi from north carolina and

from texas.

So anybody north of the mason dixon line listening but but i will gladly

keep accepting any of your questions from no matter where you are whether it be the heart

of the deep south or whether it be from canada or europe or anywhere you

are.

We would love to hear from you at chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Uh the question that from hilltop lake texas asked reminded me of

something that is of concern to me.

Uh do you share my opinion that far too many children are being over overly

medicated and over prescribed with medications for

things like dyslexia and other things such as such as that.

Yes i do

share

with that we are

not a medical

physicians.

Or why you're

off these medicines.

You know that that is okay.

Because we're not a medical facility and we we respect you know

i will

say

and need

not

be medicated

adhd

you

know

a child

who has

far

greater

issues

over

medicated.

It's a generational thing it's a mindset it's a culture.

Too many doctors that.

Willing to prescribe meds.

Well thank you.

Uh again linda in hilltop lake texas and we have a listener all the way in

slovenia who has a question for you.

Okay uh please ask brother yogi bear bera to give us

his assessment on the relative importance of confession and repentance in the addiction

emancipation process.

It is of utmost and critical importance that we confess our addictions as sin against god and repent of

that sin by seeking the holy spirit supernatural intervention to cleanse our hearts minds and desires.

What role does confession and repentance play specifically in freeing us from destructive

addictions.

Absolutely.

Um

that

it plays a

we can't but confession

uh is that he

is given a

family with spouse

and doing it properly

and

you

need to do

all

that you can.

It's also

given.

No

there's

a

cleansing

process as well and that's the sanctification

a part of that is our confession of our sin our confession to one another and

that what that cleansing aspect is is actually a healing aspect but

if there's an offense made understanding that as

well but the confession aspect of that is.

Well thank you uh joe in slovenia.

And uh please keep listening to iron trump and zion and keep spreading the word to your fellow

slovenians about this program.

And perhaps you can even uh somehow get a hold of the ear of melania trump and she is from your

country.

And uh we look forward to hearing more from you in the near future.

Uh we are going to a break right now.

And uh if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name city and state and country of residence unless it's about a personal and private

matter.

And you prefer to remain anonymous.

So we hope to hear from you soon with your questions.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

I'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from

12 noon to 1 p .m on wlie radio www

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Uh... but uh... we are if you just in the senate.

Our guest today for the full two hours with one hour to go is yogi taylor director of home of grace

addiction recovery in mississippi.

And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arntzen at gmail dot com.

Chris arntzen at gmail dot com.

Uh... we have rj in white plains new york.

Who asks.

I know that even christian recovery ministries disagree over the twelve step

method that they have borrowed from alcoholics anonymous and

narcotics anonymous.

What is your guest's opinion.

On the twelve step method.

Okay.

Well not a bad method it's

not.

Uh... you know there's a lot of

folks that formula it's not a bad

method the problem with it uh...

And it's a practical method

that no

matter

what a

man does if

he gets

sober or if

he doesn't get sober

or down to the gospel.

Yes this man is not true.

We're not anti -twelve steps

here at the

home of grace we we want you know we want sobriety for all kind of

folks.

Yeah

uh there is obviously some.

Uh... there's some differences that the twelve steps have especially in their order

with biblical theology like for instance this.

I can't help but to be amused by the illogical

uh... order of the first and second uh... the second and third step.

Because in the second step of alcoholics anonymous it says came to

believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

That the third step is made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of a

god as we understood him.

So you're already admitting you're insane right.

So how is an insane person going to be choosing a god according to.

His understanding if he's insane and that would be for your listeners out there when i say it's.

Incomplete that that would be right.

And of course you have a you have perhaps an unconsciously but very clear

pelagian influence here because the very last step having had a

spiritual awakening as the result of these steps we try

to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in our affairs.

So you are achieving a spiritual awakening by by your labors and

efforts and so on.

Now i'm not saying uh... i am i'm in very uh... open and honest and delighted to declare

that i am a five -point calvinist but i'm not saying that uh... we are to wait around and have god

zap us to heal us of addictions and anything else in our lives uh... we we you know

sanctification does involve our efforts.

Sanctification does not justification but uh...

But uh... this is saying that the spiritual awakening is coming from the steps after we've completed them.

So anyway and i do i i have to say that i am leery about the way that uh... the

the a .a. and n .a. groups uh... have in many ways resembled a

cult to me uh... because they really even though they deny

with their last breath that uh... they are a religion they are very clear

it's very clear to me that they are a religion.

They have all of the trappings of a religion with the exception for the most part of singing but they

pray they have a teaching about god which is false unless you happen to be an exclusively

christian a .a. or n .a. group and they teach you how they even use words like

salvation uh... and things like that.

But they're talking about something entirely different.

And my last uh... complaint about these groups is i have to say that i really

if i had a daughter i do not have a daughter.

But if i had a daughter or uh... if i had a wife or if i

had a sister or mother who was an alcoholic or a drug addict i would not

want them to go to these recovery groups because they can be dangerous places.

You have people who are required by law to go to these meetings who are

sometimes dangerous criminals.

And the whole the whole concept of anonymous is that they do not reveal

those things to anybody else in the room.

Yeah so uh you could have your your daughter or your sister or your mother or your wife

uh... sitting right next to some person who is a sexual criminal

uh...

But anyway i just had to get off that off my chest and uh...

but thank you very much rj in uh... white plains new york for that

question.

I hope i didn't make you feel uncomfortable with my rant there yogi

and uh...

Well let's talk about the things the fruits that you

look for in a person who is at your recovery ministry

that makes you very confident this person is healed.

This person has kicked by god's grace.

This addiction

starting to think really and truly we

some guys they just don't think you just don't

think they're going to be

coming back and they're you know they've been to seminary and they're pastors they're doing great another 10 years and that kind of thing.

And then some guys are just you think they're going to do wonderful.

And a month later you hear they're back in jail and just so

it's

hard to

look

at.

These are good

things for

us

you

know

baggage that men come to our program chris and

they you know they they come to us and the world may see

these

on

graduation

workshops on

rejection and that

our

ministry

is not

in

vain.

And we

have

uh.

Harrisburg.

I'm sorry harrison from mechanicsburg pennsylvania.

Uh who is asking.

Uh would your ministry there at

the home of grace have a strict policy of

kicking those students out after one

slip of going into drug use or alcohol use while during their

stay there.

Before i answer

that i

was

here

i know

it's

hard

for a lot of

foreign

addiction.

They understand the value of hey when a man shows up

in my room and i know that that that's

a bottle full of

powder.

Man to

retire.

We we

don't.

You know we're

not quick to just dismiss guys.

Um we understand that that there's got to be about

any tough

love.

It's like hey their attitude's bad.

They don't want it showing attitude.

And sometimes they need to leave and they need to go hit rock

bottom.

They come back and

we've

seen this

and guys will come

back.

Frustrates.

The point running game

and

manipulation is going to be a part of what

you know what they do and say.

And so we work with this man.

But i will tell you since we're on the topic of correction and discipline i will tell you what we

do here at the home of grace is we don't emphasize breaking this rule.

We emphasize living.

We have seven principles.

And the way we minister to the men is that if any man is

correct correction of

any measure it's because he violated one of these seven principles.

And and it's uh

i'll go through them.

It's one principle.

One is is to be on principle.

Three is to be correct.

I do my own

children.

Does it really matter what they say

emphasize with these men.

And we only have 90 days to do it.

But we try to help these men

learn.

Hey it's not

so much about

yeah at the.

Facility i was uh there were a group of guys who broke into the

kitchen late at night and they got all the ingredients they needed to make pruno.

I don't know if anybody recognizes that word pruno.

It's basically like uh prison booze and where they took

fruit and bread and water and sugar and made a cocktail with

it and let it sit out in the woods in a bucket until it fermented.

I'm sorry if i'm giving a recipe here but they were.

They were found.

The reason why they were discovered is they came back from after this became actual

an actual alcoholic beverage.

They came back after a night of drinking uh smashed out of their minds and

so they got exposed and they were dismissed.

But as you said there is mercy in that people can come back from the place i was at

hebron colony.

They could return but uh they are dismissed and have to go back to the the end

of the uh the waiting list again.

But i think that is that hard tough love is important.

Especially in an atmosphere like that when it's really uh you have people who are in some

senses a walking time bomb there with regard to addiction.

Until to be lenient on those things you may never get anywhere in the recovery process.

All right

that's

right.

I have to have a strong

backbone.

It's i.

Often you hold that child a hurricane

won't pull that child out of your hands but yet you're where that child could sleep

like a baby and you know that that's kind of how we have to minister.

And it's the same thing in pastoring but we have to have a firm hand you know

that of 10 men while at the same time you know

amen

before.

I forget to ask you uh what is the relationship that uh former arkansas governor mike

huckabee has.

With uh home

of grace well our

executive our

fundraisers

as the keynote speaker

uh we have a hog ride we call it the hog

ride i think how

long

the ride

is but kind of events and whatnot.

And he is he's participated in that.

He's he and josh have a

relationship and he he knows what we're about here at the home of

grace.

And he

with addictions and to do so uh with the gospel you know

who help as well.

But i think he has a heart

for those for our relationship with him and have a

great respect.

For him i have some friends in the christian motorcyclist association the cma.

Maybe i could encourage them to get involved in these charities these fundraisers that you have

with the motorcycle.

Absolutely.

And uh let's see here.

We have bb in carlisle pennsylvania who says.

One of the things that i disapprove of in regard to the more

prominent recovery groups and ideology is that they

insist that it is vital that all those who have been

delivered from addiction continue for the rest of their lives to call

themselves alcoholics or addicts.

I do not believe that if one is delivered by the blood of christ from a sin they need to

continually identify themselves especially publicly with that sinful

label.

For instance we do not go around introducing ourselves to people if we are

former fornicators adulterers thieves or murderers.

As a fornicator adulterer thief or a murderer in our in our conversations we have

had that nailed to the cross and no longer have it as a part of our our identity.

Does your guest have any opinion on this.

Yes i did

a very strong opinion

myself

kind of baggage.

And when they are you know regenerated there

tell

our men

you know we don't use words like

we affirm men that

if they aren't new

they think

different

to

drugs

and alcohol.

Everything's need

to call um addicts addicts.

In fact we don't even refer to our men as addicts.

Uh we don't refer to

them as men struggling.

Amen.

And we have

to go.

To our final break.

I think the time is just flying by like a bullet here today.

Uh we have one more break and we'll be right back after these messages so we hope you join us with questions of your own.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

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This is chris arnzen standing on the shore of new jersey broadcasting live at harvey

cedars.

No that's just the sound effects.

Uh if you just tune us in for the last 90 minutes we have had as our guest yogi taylor director of

home of grace addiction recovery in mississippi.

And he will be our guest for the next half hour to come.

If you'd like to us our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

We have murray in kinross scotland who says figuratively

speaking a successful completion of the seven steps yogi taylor has outlined

would bring a man to be sitting at the feet of jesus and in his right mind.

For the demoniac.

For the demoniac in uh for the demoniac to get

to that state demoniac activity had to be overcome.

Just how conscious are you of being engaged in spiritual warfare.

And is this something we can pray for you.

For support.

Uh that's something we can pray for you to support you with.

With such a high uh with such a high turnover of men it must be

nigh on.

Impossible to keep in regular contact with those who finish the course.

Do you actively seek to partner these men with individuals churches in their own areas

and who would qualify as being acceptable a reformed church wider than that only a church with a

recognized individual or individuals who can provide ongoing discipleship counseling and care.

And that's murray and kinross scotland.

And another reminder that i need to get new glasses so i could get something.

A hard time reading this email for some reason.

But uh do you have any uh.

Reply to the statements and questions that murray and kinross scotland has provided.

And i can repeat some of it if you want to.

Sure uh remember all the questions.

Let me uh address the murray's a man.

Murray's a man by the way i'm sorry i'm

sorry it

wasn't mary it

was murray.

Murray only cares

matter we operate their addiction

has a stronghold on if

you if i can use

that term um and you know that

that comes out in attitudes it comes out

and it comes out in bizarre behavior and these kind of things.

And she cited that that man uh the demoniac or

healed that man that his right mind.

Um when others show back up and so we know that the healing agent for even the demoniacs

and those who are deemed

the gospels you

know there are some medical issues but all issues are spiritual issues.

And so you know there are many times chris when when we're here with men and it just seems like there

is just a spirit uh up on a

room or a car in here and we'll spend

great you know we do have a number of men here

and he he mentioned

primarily through that because we have six kids all have

uh very intimate relationships with their counselees very connected and

we have a a staff meeting every morning where we talk about these issues.

And as a counselor you know from time to

time we'll have

uh two or three of our

counselors this cottage and we need to get you know xyz you

know out of them up and

so every day for a week and um and they'll just pray for these.

So i just want to just emphasize that although i don't think there's a devil behind every bush

um it is a very real factor

and

it can get

down.

Right.

Some do.

Well thank you i

can't remember i can't remember the second the second part of the question.

Okay let me go back to murray's.

Question.

Uh let's see i have to enlarge this because it's some reason came across with a very

font size.

So uh let's see here.

Murray.

Uh the second part of his question says with such a high turnover of men it must be

nigh on impossible to keep regular contact with those who finish.

Of course you already addressed that.

Do you actively seek to partner these men with individuals and churches in their own areas

who would identify as being acceptable.

I think where he's coming from is do you have a specific sphere of churches.

That would only be uh that would be the only ones that you would be

comfortable as a ministry referring someone to.

Like for instance um i'm assuming you wouldn't refer somebody to a jehovah's witness kingdom hall or a

mormon chapel ward.

And he's he's saying uh you know can you do you put these men into contact with churches.

And he's asking a reformed church wider than that only a church with a recognized

individual or individuals who can provide ongoing discipleship.

In other words there could be a mainline liberal church out there that would do nothing about

those things with a with an individual leaving your ministry.

So any comments on that.

Absolutely i got i got plenty of.

Comments.

So i

i think what he is

proactive in

his

manner

after

care

plan job.

Are you

getting

family.

So we're home.

You know we had uh

yesterday in the absence of the counselor she she called me she was asking hey

my son i was thinking about you know we got a house

that any man leave the

bed a house you know we have these issues.

Where are you going to live.

That's a big deal.

It doesn't seem like

a big deal

but it really

is talk about that was it.

You know is a church

that's going to be many

men surprisingly surprisingly enough may have what they consider to be a home church.

Or

we have contacts all over our area from louisiana to

florida.

Contacts all over and you know we get and contact

the church

investigation.

And then we'll call that church up and we'll talk to a

pastor explain

what recovery

um is

really is really

the mainstay we

we look

for celebrate recovery groups.

We try to get these uh men into uh some type of group

with aa

and that's what they

something that may have worked for them for years.

Okay if that's what you're comfortable with you know we we don't dictate exactly where they go as

much as we want to

plug them in and

set them up

now we don't call them a sponsor.

We call them an accountability partner or a mentor because

this is

someone who

say be a

part of a group

make contact with you you know be a you

know someone who can kind of

and the way that

we do that is

we'll have

our email

our mail

primary

purpose

the primary so

that

is

where all

of

our

efforts

really.

Under in the discipleship format.

Well thank you so much uh.

Murray from kinross scotland.

Please keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron.

In the uk we always appreciate hearing from you.

One of the things that i uh have reservations about that is

very prominent in the aa and na recovery groups

is the testimony time.

Uh they very often dominate these meetings.

And you wind up hearing a lot of people that very often sound like

they are reveling in their wickedness and romanticizing

either their past or present addictions.

Uh going on and on and on with all the gory details of them.

And i understand that there is a time and a place and a way

to properly give a testimony.

Uh.

And you know i have even myself on this program.

I don't give every gory detail of my life but uh uh do you see where i'm coming from and where is.

What is your opinion on that.

I know that hebron colony where i went they would not allow men to get up on

a soapbox and start to give every gory detail of their lives.

And if some if somebody did attempt that they would be stopped.

And i actually agreed with that policy.

What is your thought on that.

Well we first off we teach the men that if you're going to give a testimony it needs to be a

testimony of the lord and not a meemoni.

Meemoni um it's all about

me and

it's great

language and

amen.

And they

know that in

our program

and

they've been

to be

amazed at

some of these and i'm i'll tell you

you just hear

that you

hear these

things.

They're the good things

lords um do in their life and not in a not not in a

way that amen.

Yeah i don't

i don't i wasn't.

Trying to insinuate that i believe that there should never be any personal testimonies given so i don't want anybody to get me

wrong uh because i believe that also uh there are certain frightening

stories that should be heard to that god could use to prevent somebody from returning to or entering

into addiction.

Um or or even dabbling with uh with substances.

Uh.

But um uh i i'm mainly referring to the people that you can really

uh easily hear that they are reveling in these things.

They are wearing them like a badge of honor and almost reminiscing as if they missed them or something.

You know.

Yeah uh.

And obviously that's uh if anybody had earned the right for lack of a better phrase to

give one of those war stories it was soul of tarsus the apostle.

The apostle paul.

And he didn't you know you know certain details about him that he uh

rounded up men and women to be executed for their faith in christ before he himself

was transformed by christ.

But you don't hear all the gory details about what he did.

You hear enough to know his background.

Where.

Where.

You uh you also on the other end of the spectrum you wouldn't want people to be dishonest about their

backgrounds and totally avoid being open about something from their past that the lord

uh rescued them from.

But uh but you know i i just uh that that is one of my pet peeves.

Well i want you to have a few minutes before we go to just uh summarize what you most want

etched in the hearts and minds of our.

Listeners today

yogi you

know seek

out men of seek out those we

understand

that

you can't

enjoy

life when you're in

struggling uh you

know to

seek

out uh

help for

them

um you

know

trying to

medicate

folks

amen.

And

the website is homeofgrace .org homeofgrace .org.

I would appreciate.

It yogi if you could stay on the line because i'd like to say goodbye to you off the air as well.

Okay.

But i want to close the program with a breathtaking song written and recorded

by my friend deborah antognano a former jehovah's witness who was

rescued from that cult by the grace and mercy of god who is now a born again believer in christ.

She has a song captives be free that i have adopted as my own personal anthem in

regard to my own soul being set free from alcohol addiction and i

hope you enjoy deborah antognano's song.