Doreen Virtue: New Age & the Occult

Non rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day?

Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly.

Okay, it doesn't really hurt. Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right? Don't go in the world make ponies disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle Nick.

That's a joke.

That's a joke master when we have the real message of truth. We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

The Occult Practices Named in Deuteronomy 18

When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you You shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or Interprets omens or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of?

The dead. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord and because of these abominations Lord Your God is driving them out before you. You should be blameless before the Lord your God for these nations.

Which you are about to dispossess. Listen to fortune tellers and diviners, but as for you the Lord your God has not allowed you to do this. What's up, guys? Welcome back to the gospel heard around the world.

This is apology radio. I want to encourage everybody to take the link right now. That's above you here as you're watching this live across them Internets and share it across your social media platforms.

Because that's how you get the word out. That's how you guys help us to communicate the gospel and the biblical worldview in the public square. I want to just give you a quick reminder that a hundred years ago 150 years ago to have a Conversation like this you would probably have to travel a long distance to make it happen.

A lot of money would go into making it happen and you would only have the audience that was in front of you at that Very moment maybe in that small room and maybe with no air conditioning. That's what it would look like and then whatever took place from that moment.

Had to take some time to get legs on it that Message had to go from those minds on those feet out into that world and it had to go those Distances to communicate the message to the next town to the next person to the next group to the next community right now.

I want to just remind you how insane this is right now. There's probably about a four second delay. Maybe a five second delay something like that of my voice here in Phoenix, Arizona.

To.

Australia and.

That's stupid. Amazing and crazy. That's amazing. That's that's amazing. Inside joke. Jessilee Peterson inside joke. All right, so I Want to just tell you how cool it is that now the public square is in your pocket.

Right, like you get to like engage with the gospel and the biblical worldview in the public square. You get to do it while sitting eating Mudslide ice cream on your sofa while you're in the living room.

You get to talk to people right now in Australia and China and Japan and Russia and all over the world. And it's right here in your pocket. And right now I my voice is traveling around the planet right now.

For free for free. Z's for free basically, I mean you obviously you pay for your day. All right there Bernie Sanders. Yeah, free free phones health care. Do you see how many times I said in the Democratic debate?

They said free. Do you see that video going around? Yeah, it was like the Democratic National Debate stuff and they were like how many times was the word free and we'll give you like put out.

It was just it was every just free this and free that and free free. Did you see the style?

Yes, that's the one I think where he's adding up all the money. Yeah, they're saying they're giving away for that was the one it was a free free free hundreds of billions of a lot of money.

Yeah, we're gonna get that. Speaking of how stupid that is and how insane socialism is and Marxism and all the rest. This is an amazing gift from God God's revelation that he has preserved for us through time.

He's spoken in history and I just read to you guys a passage from Deuteronomy chapter 18. And remember remind you of this beautiful beautiful thing and that's Deuteronomy chapter 4. God tells his people When he is giving them his law.

He says that this law that I'm giving to you is gonna be your wisdom in the sight of the people's that it will watch. Yes, there are blessings and cursings to God's law. Blessings for obedience. Curses for disobedience.

We know that there was a special privilege in place that Israel had with God. It was always by grace through faith. There's always a gift of God's grace. But they also have like a national covenant with God where if they sinned they would be cursed.

So there's a curse to God's law. For sure disobedience means curse. However, not all of God's law is simply curse. It's also gift and blessing. God says in his law he says that his law is to be their wisdom in the sight of the people's and It specifically says that the world was supposed to look in on God's law and say.

Wow.

Like what kind of God is this. And a People that has a God so near to them as this and a nation that has laws So righteous. So just as this now, I'm gonna say we get away from that law. We get away from Justice.

And you might say well like what is justice really? Well, you got to look to the one who is just who only does what is just who never changes. And that law he revealed. He said this is how you to live.

Here's how I made the world you live in it this way. And I read to you guys a section of Durham 18 where it talks about.

Sorcerers.

Necromancers those who deal in omens and and you ever saying like hmm. Who's doing that today? Maybe certain groups small weird groups of people. No, baby. It is pervasive and I'll bet you if you're part of the Typical evangelical church model of today mega church context.

It's probably hanging around in your church context somewhere in some kind of context. Maybe not overt maybe not on purpose, but it's there. We've got a lot of New Age occultic beliefs and practices actually that are really influencing the church.

So we have a perfect show for you today. You need to share. I am Jeff the comb of the ninja. That is Luke the bear right there. What up? I feel weird over here. Why. Oh cuz you're on the wrong side. That's weird.

Yes, he's not usually in this room. It's throwing all of our audience off to and the symbol people already back. So yeah, are there already? Yeah, this is the ancient ancient symbol of the Trinity called the tricetra.

You need to get to know already worn the athanasian creed and all the rest to get okay. It's all about just Isaac just oh, yeah, by the way, just and just say as you're doing this live. We love to do it live.

We love to have you guys in here live with us, but just know that band button is permanent and it's so easy. I mean, it's so easy. It's just very very easy. So behave. Hey, so speaking of wrong side. When you are out like when we're on a trip doing ministry and our families are with us.

Does your wife do you guys require the same side of the bed? Oh, yeah as home. Yeah. What's with the weird people that don't do that? There's people that don't do that. Yeah, there's people that like, you know, if they're going out a hotel like it just it doesn't matter.

What's like soon on their home bed, but I'm like I have to be on the same side I will literally be up all night long. Yeah, and not because I'm uncomfortable because this doesn't feel doesn't feel right.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, she's what. My wife is a southpaw and I'm right-handed. So even when we southpaw even when we eat we have to eat the same way because otherwise we bump elbows all the time.

Yeah, and so yeah, well, I just the way it goes thought I would add that in there. I didn't know they were weirdos like that. No, that's right. There are there are weirdos weirdos. Yep. And hey, so we have two very special guests you can see a long introduction today because we wanted to build the energy and Get you guys sharing the episode because it's a very important episode.

You notice that it says new age and the occult. We thought would give a real simple title there that would also make it through Facebook and YouTube's algorithms. So that's really why we did that. We have two very very special guests.

We are very honored to have with us today, and I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation. We are gonna talk about some very very important things that we don't often get to talk about in the kind of detail We are today.

I'm gonna tell you ahead of time that this is not the only place We're gonna have them on Apollo Geo Studios content. We have our team in the back right now on standby rating waiting to do some cultish episodes with these two lovely ladies.

And we are super excited about it because you guys are thinking a lot out of that. We're gonna talk about even Bethel Church the movement Bethel and the new age and the occult. Sort of together so be staying tuned for that cultish make sure you like the cultish stuff on all the pages.

I'm gonna go ahead and start to make introductions now. This is Doreen virtue and Melissa Doherty and I'm I the the bio I have is for Doreen. No. Yes, we don't have you both don't I do I have you both?

Yes good, okay? All right, so so Doreen virtue was formerly a top-selling New Age author and teacher. She was raised in New Thought churches, and she had never heard the gospel nor read the whole Bible.

She had paranormal experiences throughout her life that she thought were from God and angels. She also thought that she was following Jesus, but it turned out to be the false Jesus then Jesus began calling her and she started to read the Gospels and Go to church on January 7th 2017.

Doreen had a clear vision of Jesus at church that convinced convicted her to leave the New Age completely. She got baptized for the first time and began reading and studying the entire Bible. Today she helps others to realize that the New Age is spiritually dangerous and Unbiblical and that we must focus on the gospel of Jesus the Messiah then in son of God.

She lost almost everything in the material world with her conversion including her New Age family members who have shunned her and Yet, she gained everything through her salvation by the grace of God in her faith in Jesus.

Doreen holds a BA and MA degrees in counseling psychology, and she is currently taking seminary classes in biblical theology way to go today. She helps others to realize that the New Age is dangerous Heresy her focus is on encouraging everyone to read and study the entire Bible and to give their lives to Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

All right. Amen.

Well, welcome ladies. Thank you for having us. We really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you guys for coming. So we'll tell everyone where you traveled from. Yeah, that would be the good thing. I live just outside of Seattle.

Okay, I traveled from New Mexico.

Too far and so so for you. Definitely.

Stepping into the major heat and you're from Hawaii. So you're used to well from California that I lived in Hawaii for 11 years.

Okay, she even says it right? Yeah. Yeah.

My my career crashed after my conversion. I could no longer afford it and my parents and mother-in-law live with my husband and I and we. So we have a lot of expenses. So we moved to tax-free, Washington State.

Okay. Seriously, that's why but we love it there and actually Once we made the decision to move I knew that we would find more biblical church options there. Then we were finding in Hawaii. Okay, so we're gonna talk a bit about that later as well.

So you came all the way from New Mexico and. So let's let's let's do this at least quickly is by way of introduction. Tell us a quick overview of who you are where you've come from and.

Why you're here today, so I am an ex New Ager as well and I got saved when I was 16. But just had really bad theology. I never knew my Bible I didn't ask I didn't have anybody to ask those questions to and kind of fell into the Upbringing of my family which would have been new thought teachings.

Which is I call it the half-sister of New Age. It's okay the same but not in so many ways and but then Years go by and I'm knee-deep in it and two Jehovah's Witnesses show up at my door and Long story short it was through researching the Jehovah's Witness religion that it got me out of the new thought.

Yeah.

It challenged everything that I thought I knew and it kind of forced me to look critically at what I believed and. It pulled the rug out from under me. My mom is still in it. We don't have very constructive conversations about this my sister.

Same thing. It's my family's a little we're divided on this topic.

So.

I was lonely. There was no Stephen Bancars. There was no Dorian Virtue. I didn't have anybody that related to me. I made a Facebook group Invited people to it and then one day Dorian Virtue joins my group.

And only two. I'd lost most of my yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea who she was. But that's how we became friends. It was through a Facebook group and this was years ago. Praise God. I can't remember when but that's awesome.

Yeah.

And and then one day right after I do daily Bible study of course and I pray and I Really got this sense that the Holy Spirit wanted us to partner on my youtube channel. And so I asked her and she said sure.

So for the last almost two years now.

Actually, it's a year one year in July, but for two years, we've been close friends. Yeah, we've actually been doing active ministry together for for a year.

One of the reasons we wanted to do that is because when you are a new ager It's very myopic who you follow. There's Because I've been touring with the famous New Age teachers for 20 over 20 years. And that's who everyone follows.

There's like 12 of us, you know, maybe 20. And so I wanted to introduce the people were following me in the New Age to Christian leaders. And so we've taken we've we've brought on theologians and apologetics apologists.

Yeah, and.

Because I'm going to college for apologetics. And she's going for theology biblical theology. Very good. So we teamed up in that and yeah.

And so it's been great because the audience would have no exposure to these folks, you know YouTube's very specific who they refer to you. It's the more the same or the same. So now we see people following, you know, Paul Washer and cultish and apologia and.

Justin.

Peters and you know all these our man Justin good. Yeah good. Yeah, and Lindsay Davis, of course. Oh, yeah so we've we've just been doing our best to help the New Agers because Coming from a background in psychology plus New Age I feel like I have insight why people go in the New Age and why they stay there and My experience is that a lot of people in the New Age are trauma survivors.

They've been abused as children. They have issues of almost PTSD or at least secondary and so they're looking for a place that's comforting many people. That I used to have in my audience left the church because they didn't feel comfort there and they feel guilty.

And so they would come in the New Age where the theology there is everything goes. There is no evil. There's no devil. There's no sin. There's no demons everything is allowed you can just be yourself and you can dress up with glitter and and have fun and Just express yourself and and so that's what they felt like was a womb for them.

But the trouble is it's it's you and I both have a recovery background. So, you know how alcoholism is a progressive disease? So is deception and so people would come in through the guise of my angel cards.

Which seems so fluffy and sweet and then as I watch them you could see them going through wanting more adrenaline more Experiences and finally getting into pretty dark places in spirituality right right from that gateway.

That's right.

Yeah starts off very very beautiful a lot of light and then it starts to progressively get darker and scary. Right, very scary. So with that You mentioned I mean you used to travel around the world with some of the top New Age Talking heads and popular icons.

Yep. And so give us a picture. What did that look like? So so what you're you're talking about coming out of the New Age.

From the top level of the New Age I was the top-selling author of Hay House. Which is the top-selling New Age publishing company?

Okay, so what we're talking to who God has saved is somebody that was not dabbling in the New Age.

No.

I was all in. But I thought I was a Christian because I was raised in Christian science and my mother told us we were Christians. We had a King James Bible in our house. Christian science, which I know you guys know the background on it.

They have lessons every week where they cherry-pick it's very is a Jesus. And so they'll find a verse that fits their theology and then you read that for the day out of context. No idea what it is. So I thought I had read the whole Bible because I had read bits from Genesis to Revelation.

But I didn't see the whole biblical theology picture at all. So I I would mix much like I see a lot of the church is doing today. I would mix a New Age Theology with a bit of scripture. I used Christian terms before I would start my workshops.

I'd sit on stage and I would pray God Holy Spirit Jesus. And then I would add in Archangel Michael because that was who I thought was someone to pray to and repented for that. But so I think people were confused.

I was confused a lot of my audience members would come to my book signings with crosses on their necks. Saying that they were Christians, too. Wow, and and so it was beyond watered-down Christianity.

It was heresy mixed with some Christian veneer. Yeah. Yeah, so you sold books? Yeah, I had 70 books.

In 38 languages that you are on the table right now. Yeah, that seems.

One one is the angel therapy handbook. Can I take a look?

There's a few that she wrote. Yeah, buckle your seatbelts. Yeah, I marked some pages in there. Yeah, so the angel therapy.

Handbook, yep. Give us a snapshot of what in the world is that about you wrote a book on the angel therapy handbook?

Yes, that was a manual given to my students in classes where We were learning about giving what seemed like psychic readings. But we called them more pure because we weren't talking to just any old spirit.

We were talking to guardian angels and archangels and I really believed it. I had these experiences. When I would give the readings I would get information that I could not have known and sometimes future information that would be verified.

So it wasn't a sleight of hand. It wasn't mind reading or body language reading. There were unclean spirits I was talking with who were feeding me information. So this is really important. We talked about this a bit before the show started.

There are people like Darren Brown and James Randy, am I saying that right? Yes that will. And very in a very entertaining way I was actually watching Darren Brown just the other day where he basically debunks faith healers and Psychic mediums and people that were engaged in this kind of stuff.

He shows that there's a lot there charlatans. There's trickery going on. There's there scamming they're knowingly scamming people and there's even stuff that actually now is masquerading as Charismatic Christianity, that's nothing more than Occultic and New Age practices actually put into the church and they're saying no, that's just charismatic and it's like well it's not it's a different kind of spirit for sure, but So it's at points in in this kind of field.

People will say I think Doreen it's all Charlatan it's all Scam, it's all you knew you were deceiving people and you were just making a great paycheck from it. But what you were saying and this is what I want people to hear is that yes, there are charlatans.

Yes, there are scam artists, but there are unclean spirits. There are demonic Elements and opposition involved in this you were talking to spirits. Oh, yeah.

The I thought I was working for God I would often call myself God's secretary when I would channel a book. This is a channeled book, by the way. Yeah, and so I would say I can use a roof. I'm sorry I don't want you keep going.

Okay, I just might channel the book. Okay, so so I would kind of lose my my mode of consciousness and just listen for a voice and a feeling and I would type whatever I got and There was no discernment because in my belief there was nothing bad.

I hadn't read 2nd Corinthians 1114 that says that devil the devil can masquerade as an angel like I did not I mean I'd seen it, but it didn't fit what I was raised with that. There is no devil except for Mortal mind what Christian science calls negative thinking right?

That was the only sin is if you're negative and then you might bring it on yourself. So I wouldn't allow myself to think about any of this because I could bring on something negative so when I was on stage and I was giving keynote speeches around the world with Hundreds of people in the audience sometimes thousands and I'd be touring with some of the very famous, you know Teachers, you might you might just give me so Deepak Chopra Marianne Williamson Wayne Dyer Louise.

Hey, I toured with them all. Okay, I'm James James Redfield James von Prague John Edward, you know all the famous all the big guys all the big ladies.

Yeah.

So we were like a traveling circus family and we would be in different cities around the world paid for by the publisher. They would you know give us kind of a rock star treatment and we would go on stage and my talk would be repetitive.

I'd give basically the same kind of talk. But the readings were on the fly and I could not know what I was gonna say to the person. It was what?

Authentic. Okay, so I and I believe that. So give me give me an example of an experience of people believers who are watching This can understand. Why it's so important for us to actually engage this issue.

Yeah, and to start viewing this through the lens of not conspiracy But true biblical spirituality that there is not just flesh and blood here conspiracy charlatan. Stuff it's actual spiritual demonic elements by this.

So we're at a conference. You're up. You're giving your talk now.

You're doing a live reading. Yeah, what would that be? Like there'd be a room full of people. I mean, we're talking about a convention center hall. So maybe five hundred to three thousand people, right?

And so I can't see individuals, but I would be pulled. I would my body be pulled in a certain direction. I'd hear it a name and I would say, okay, I'm being pulled over here. And this is just a hypothetical.

It'd be it'd be real in the moment. Okay I'm hearing the name Susan Susan and I get that maybe your left arm is hurting and you really are being drawn to write a book but you're afraid of what people might think because you want to write about your family and It would be in the moment in the and then we'd find the Susan over here and she'd stand up and then it'd be very Authentic because she'd be crying because it'd be so spot-on but I would go more.

I'd get the names of her dead relatives one time I was giving readings in Athens Greece and I got Greek names of dead relatives and that was before I learned how I'm Just learning Greek now, but so there was things that I could not have known.

Trained in no. Yeah. No, I actually took one. I took one. Maybe two days of psychic development classes. Okay, the rest came to me in meditation where I was told what to do.

So, okay, I want to explore that explore that. So you were told what to do in meditation. Well, what kind of what relationship is this? What kind of relationship is where just all of a sudden? You're you were in meditation and you're being told yes.

Oh, I got big instructions and I always thought it must be from God. There was no question. It could be anything else. I mean, I would seem nefarious. Well, it was a it didn't even matter if it was because I was raised pantheistic.

So all there is is God and so any spirit is from all is one.

It was just lower one ism.

Yeah, yeah, so anything I got must be from God. So I was told you know these different methods to do and and how to do them and then that's what I would teach others.

Through this book. Okay so. So much to explore here, by the way, Peter Jones, have you heard Peter Jones? No, go check out Peter Jones. I think he you would you would absolutely be blessed by Peter Jones and his discussion on one ism two ism.

It'll really really help with where you're going in terms of like really codifying and expressing the worldview distinctions, but. We could probably do this for hours. When did it start to get nefarious?

Nefarious were you realize was there any moment where it seemed nefarious? No, never.

No, I want to tell you something. When you opened this show with Deuteronomy 18 10 through 12 or 13 I started crying because I have that open right here. Oh, yeah, because that's that that is the no spirit.

Told me to do that.

Passage that convicted me of my sin. That was that was it. When I had a vision of Jesus, it was it was just a static Picture like a mind's eye, but he was out here with light coming out, but I had epiphanies when I saw that.

So the epiphany was Jesus of the Bible is real and before then I had doubted that. The next epiphany was the Bible's real complete knowing that the Bible was real. Third epiphany Was that he had been crucified for our sins before then I had fallen into the zeitgeist Conspiracy theory that it was Sumerian Right and and then the fourth epiphany was I have to get out of the New Age and so all four of those happened.

I don't know what space of time and the reason why. Like what. How did this just drop from heaven?

I like what feeling was that Jesus was always there, but the veil lifted. Yeah, but what happened was someone talking to you know, I was at. I at that point was getting called by Jesus. So my husband and I were at church in Hawaii and an outdoor service and they were just making announcements.

It's the beginning of the service. There was no prayer. No meditation. Just my whole Viewpoint was Jesus and this any and it was like these. It reminds me of what I'm hearing about these Muslim dreams.

I've seen Jesus in a dream pointing you to the love. Yeah. As soon as it happened I couldn't wait to be baptized. I had never thought of that before and I couldn't wait to read the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

I couldn't wait so I started and I was still doing New Age things because I didn't know what I was doing wrong. It's in my mind. Everything was allowed. So I was still doing these angel cards and readings and things until I got to Deuteronomy 18.

And that's when I was saved. I always gonna ask you if you actually need. Yeah, because when you opened with that I was gonna ask it. Yeah, that's. No no.

I've when I've talked about this subject every time that I talk about it. I I will always go to Deuteronomy 18 because when you and I'm sure you're you guys are both aware of this. When you really unpack that passage and the understanding of those different practices and Professions you understand how it relates in a new age and how it's being done today and in every way from pendulum to Even chiropractor some forms of chiropractic care.

What's it called again?

The network chiropractic and the cranial I. We had that we had to actually do this.

There's a two-hour message. I have a. We had to actually. Thank God we were informed some members of our church had accidentally got sucked into this chiropractic care that had a lot of occultic practices mixed in with it.

I just KST KST core and specific technique. They use a lot of the. Yeah, so.

What happened was I was reading the NLT? Translation which is you know, a pretty good dynamic translation for beginners because the KJV being in our house Wasn't helping me because I didn't understand it.

Interestingly the Christian science cult is KJV only us. I think that's just so ironic. Yeah.

You know, I don't know. There might be something.

So I'm in the NLT. It says that these practices God finds Despicable and there was something about that word that just slayed me. It just it just broke my heart because I thought I was doing God's work until I read that and then of course reading the Old Testament prophets about the idolatry and the false prophets I really related and I relate so much to act 1616 the girl with the the Python spirit of divination.

That's who I was. Mm-hmm. I was giving Messages and making a lot of money for my publishers and event producers.

So just to help our audience is listening to this now. I'm trying to think of the questions. They might be asking. Maybe they might ask.

Did you do you really hear voices? Yes, I heard voices and I saw what I thought were angels. Okay, since I was a child. Since you were a child.

And this the home that you were raised in. Is this was this sort of like a common belief in practice? And is that why this began or no?

What was it. My brother and I. My brother. My younger brother Ken is two years younger than me. He's also saved and born again. We're the and his family's so we're the only ones in the family who are saved.

The rest of the family is new age new thought and so that's why I Didn't ask to be saved. I didn't ask for Jesus. He called me. It's why I have reformed leanings now. John 6. Yes, right. Romans. Romans 9 Ephesians 1.

We go. Yeah, I'm the case study for Romans 9. Yes, seriously. I would never have left the New Age.

I was set for life. It was it was the axe nine moments. Yeah, where Paul is on his high horse gets knocked off and his eyes are opened.

It was very much like that I relate to Paul so much except for I probably should have gone away for three years like. But I went through sanctification.

Publicly right and we all of us are yeah for sure. Yeah, we should probably go to break soon. Yeah, actually, let's do that. So I thank you guys all for watching. We have much more to say much more to come we're gonna get into some important conversation here.

And so if you guys would take the link share it across your social media platforms. Let everybody know important discussion to have again. This is not the only discussion we're gonna have. We're gonna have these two lovely ladies on Cultish our broadcast they're here in the studio all day today to be filming with us and doing projects.

So grateful for the two of them I want you guys to just go ahead share everything make sure everyone knows about what's going on. With these two ladies and the gospel message coming out of them now and want to encourage Everybody to go to Apologia studios .com sign up for all access.

When you guys sign up for all access you make everything we do possible. So the gospel that is coming out of Apologia Church through all these different ministries it takes place because Brothers and sisters just like you sign up for all access to actually make all this possible the lights the air.

Which you really need in Arizona and this is this place these microphones all of it is you partnering with us and Also want to encourage you to know that when you guys are all access you get access to all the additional content the TV show the after show and Apologia Theological Academy and the purpose of Apologia Academy is to equip you to equip the church in important issues whether it's apologetics whether it is reformed theology whether it is Church history and that's why I'm telling you now.