Prayer of Jabez

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July 28, 2001

The Prayer of Jabez book had already sold over 5 million copies, which, unfortunately, would not have happened if it was a balanced representation of Christian prayers in the Bible. The book also misses the sense of the text’s prayer as a covenant oath and misses the biblical concept of blessing, and the biblical sense of answered prayer.

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00:01: And good afternoon, welcome to The Dividing Line. Last Saturday afternoon, right towards the end of the program after we had numerous callers, and we appreciate having callers, of course, but that got us on to many other issues, and we did not have the opportunity to do anything really meaningful in commenting on the book that has been at the top of the
00:25: New York Times bestseller list and is found in every
00:30: Christian bookstore. It's found in stacks at Barnes and Noble, etc, etc, etc.
00:37: There is a book called The Prayer of Jabez and written by Bruce Wilkinson.
00:46: And the book is all over the place. I have even been in situations where I was speaking at a church that was just about to begin a study of The Prayer of Jabez, and they were passing them out amongst everybody, and I guess
01:01: I live a little bit of a lead mine. I did not hear about this until just recently.
01:08: Obviously, I don't keep up on the bestseller lists, and I was unaware of the multi -million dollar marketing strategy that was going on.
01:20: The fact that you can now buy follow -up books, you can buy devotionals, you can buy
01:26: The Prayer of Jabez for teens, The Prayer of Jabez in leather, you can get it, you know, just all sorts of stuff.
01:34: I'm sure that there, if they're not already, there will be Prayer of Jabez calendars, and Prayer of Jabez soap, and Prayer of Jabez jammies, and you know, you name it, it's gonna be there.
01:47: Because the the Christian community doesn't mind shelling out money when it comes to something like this that promises blessings.
01:57: The problem, of course, is what kind of blessings. And last week, I just very, very briefly began to just mention something concerning the subject of The Prayer of Jabez.
02:09: I did not have an opportunity to do almost anything at all about that, and so I'd like to spend a little more time because there have been many evangelicals who've read the book and and have not really seen anything overly terrible in it, simply because the fact that, you know, it's based on a biblical passage, it encourages daily prayer, it encourages us to seek
02:35: God's best for our lives, and they basically just see that, and that's about all there is to it.
02:43: The problem is, if you go to the Internet, and this isn't, you know, I recognize,
02:49: I noticed immediately upon going to it, that this particular website says we are not officially dealing with Dr.
03:03: Wilkinson's book, etc., etc., but, you know, we aren't, you know, associated, but still, it is a place where you can post blessings to you.
03:20: When someone I know sneezes, the whole world stops for just a moment, especially when the door is open.
03:28: Anyways, if you go to www .theprayerofjabez .com,
03:34: which is a single word, you will find all sorts of testimonies of people who have prayed the prayer of Jabez.
03:42: I was scanning through it this morning, and one that caught my eye was a fellow who was was racing, well, he wasn't racing, he was driving down a road, got an impression that he should slow down and came over the next hill, and there were two trucks in the way, and he attributed this to the prayer of Jabez.
04:02: And another lady who started praying the prayer of Jabez, and she got an opportunity to earn some money here, and her son got to mow a lawn, and you just read through there, and there's stuff on, you know, pets being saved, and found, and healed, and all the rest of stuff.
04:20: It's all due to repeating the prayer of Jabez from 1
04:26: Chronicles 4, 9, and 10. And what I'd like to do today is I'd first like to look at the text, because one of the first criticisms
04:32: I have of the book is that while it allegedly bases itself upon the text, it makes a few passing comments about the text.
04:42: Much of what the text is really all about is missed, and in fact, the basic premise of the book is flawed.
04:51: 1 Chronicles 4 is a passage not overly well known to most of us, and you will find, if you take a look at the passages, that in 1
05:03: Chronicles chapter 4, we have a listing. It's basically genealogies. For example, the sons of Helah were
05:11: Zareth, Ishar, and Ethnon. Chaz became the father of Anub and Zobabah, and the families of Aharhel, the son of Haram.
05:20: So in the middle of that we have 1 Chronicles 4, 9 through 10, which says
05:26: Jabez was more honorable than his brothers, and his mother named him Jabez, saying, because I bore him with pain.
05:35: Now Jabez called on the God of Israel, saying, O that you would bless me indeed, and enlarge my border, and that your hand might be with me, and that you would keep me from harm, that it may not pain me.
05:44: And God granted him what he requested. And then it just goes on. Chalub, the brother of Shuhah, became the father of Mehir, who was the father of Eshton, etc, etc, etc.
05:54: So it does sort of stand out that in the midst of a whole list of genealogical citations, there is, just briefly on the part of the individual who is writing for us in 1
06:06: Chronicles, this recording of this man named Jabez. Now Jabez comes from the
06:14: Hebrew term that refers to sorrow or pain, and that is, in fact, why we have the statement in 4, 9, his mother named him
06:25: Jabez, saying, because I bore him with pain. And this is briefly mentioned in the context of the
06:33: Prayer of Jabez book by Dr. Bruce Wilkinson. But it does end up coming out rather importantly in his prayer.
06:43: In fact, the prayer is understood by a number of the commentaries as not so much a prayer, oh, please do this, but a covenantal type thing, if you will please do this.
06:55: If you will do this, then I will do this, the type of a situation. And in essence, the entire prayer can be boiled down to one thing.
07:05: The phrases, that you would bless me and enlarge my border and your hand might be with me, are all those three phrases together are just three different ways of asking for God's blessing.
07:19: These become extremely expanded in Dr. Wilkinson's work in a way that I don't know the text actually supports this, because the fact that, for example, the phrase enlarge my border is used numerous times in the
07:34: Old Testament to refer to God's blessing the people of Israel. If you are obedient to me, I will enlarge your border.
07:41: I will enlarge your territory. I will protect your borders. For example, in that passage where we have the promise from God, which
07:48: I've always found to be a fascinating example of the providence of God, the providential control of God even over the desires of men, we have the statement from the
07:58: Lord that he will not only expand the borders of the people of Israel, but he will even keep the people who are around the
08:11: Israelites from desiring the lands when the people...
08:16: Let me just read it to you. Exodus 34, 24 says, for I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders.
08:24: There's the phrase we're looking at. And no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the
08:29: Lord your God. This is a passage that I think demonstrates that God can actually control the very sinful desires of man.
08:37: I'm not sure how an Arminian would understand that, but we Calvinists don't have any problem with that particular passage.
08:42: That's not what we're talking about today. But it is one of those many questions that always makes me wonder when I look at passages like this, if God can in point of fact even control a man's coveting, so that the neighbors would not even covet the land when the man left.
08:56: All the men of Israel supposed to go up to go up to the tabernacle and worship, and no one's left to protect lands, just the kids and the wifey.
09:03: And yet God says you're faithful to me and your neighbors across the way who are not God -fearers, and who in fact you have to keep your sword ready most of the time to fight them off with.
09:13: They won't even, they'll look across the way. They'll see your men leaving. They know they're gonna be gone for a number of days, and they'll go, yeah, yeah, big deal.
09:21: And they won't even want your land. Wonder how God can do that. Well anyways, there is the phraseology we're looking at.
09:27: Enlarge your borders. I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders. It's a phrase of blessing that is used of the people of Israel, and that's exactly what we have in the prayer of Jabez as well.
09:38: He is requesting that God's blessing would be upon him, that you would bless me indeed, enlarge my border, that your hand might be with me.
09:47: Those, those are all prayers for general blessing, and that you would keep me from harm that may not pain me.
09:53: That sort of gets lost a little bit in the translation, because the phrase that's translated pain me there uses the same
10:03: Hebrew root of his name. And so in essence, this is a prayer. Even though I have been named sorrow or pain, my prayer is that my life would not follow my name.
10:16: That you would keep me from harm, that it may not pain me, that I might not be pained. In fact, if you look at scholarly commentaries on the particular passage, let me read you, for example, what
10:30: Kylan Delitzsch say concerning this particular passage. It says, in terms of the vow so that sorrow may not be to me.
10:39: Notice they take this as a vow, not as a plea, but as a vow. In terms of the vow, so sorrow may not be to me, there is a play upon the name
10:48: Jabez. But of the vow itself, only the conditions proposed by the maker of the vow are communicated.
10:54: If thou wilt bless me and enlarge my coast, thy hand shall be with me, and thou wilt keep evil far off and not bring sorrow to me without the conclusion, then
11:03: I vow to do this or that. But with the remark that God granted him that which he requested. The reason of this is probably that the vow had acquired importance sufficient to make it worthy of being handed down only from God's having so fulfilled his wish that his life became a contradiction of his name.
11:18: The son of sorrow having been freed from pain in life and having attained to greater happiness and reputation than his brothers.
11:25: And so here is this element of the prayer and possibly this is exactly why the writer provides us with this information.
11:34: But the important thing I think for us to recognize is what is said in verse 9.
11:42: Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. And this particular phrase,
11:51: I think really if it were to be given its honest place, would undo the majority of the argumentation in Dr.
12:01: Bruce Wilkinson's book. And the reason is this. As you open the prayer of Jabez, and it can be read in a very short period of time in point of fact, and the story begins with the rainstorm in Texas -sized raindrops pelting the window so on and so forth and a chaplain has told
12:23: Wilkinson that he needs to be a gipper and a gimper. I'm sorry, a gimper.
12:29: A gimper is a person. Sign up to be a gimper for God is the phrase used on page 9.
12:35: A gimper is someone who always does a little more than what's required or expected, etc, etc. And so he had given him 1
12:43: Chronicles 4, 9 through 10 and then we have this particular, let me just read you a section.
12:50: Lord, I think I want to be a gimper for you, I prayed as I looked out the window at the blustery spring rain, but I was puzzled.
12:57: What exactly did Jabez do to rise above the rest? Why did
13:03: God answer his prayer? I wondered, for that matter, why did God even include Jabez's mini profile in the
13:09: Bible? Maybe it was the raindrops running down the window panes. Suddenly, my thoughts ran past verse 9.
13:16: I picked up my Bible and read verse 10, the prayer of Jabez. Something in his prayer would explain the mystery.
13:24: It had to. Pulling a chair up to the yellow counter, I bent over my Bible and reading the prayer over and over,
13:31: I searched with all my heart for the future God had for someone as ordinary as I. The next morning, I prayed
13:36: Jabez's prayer word for word and the next and the next 30 years later, I haven't stopped.
13:43: If you were to ask me what sentence other than my prayer for salvation has revolutionized my life and ministry the most,
13:49: I would tell you that it was the cry of a gimper named Jabez, who is still remembered not for what he did, but for what he prayed and for what happened next.
14:00: Well, this is just the beginning and I don't think anyone would argue with me that that is the foundation of the argumentation provided by Dr.
14:09: Wilkinson in this book. But immediately, I have major league problems.
14:17: I have major league problems. He was puzzled by the citation. He said, what exactly did
14:22: Jabez do to rise above the rest? And my immediate question would be, why do you assume that it was something
14:28: Jabez did? Why would anyone assume that it is merely the actions of the man?
14:36: Do not the actions of the man represent what he is in himself and is not what he is in himself, the work of God, the gift of his grace?
14:45: It says, why did God answer his prayer? Well, the question there I would have is, first of all, why does
14:51: God ever answer anyone's prayer? And secondly, what does it mean to answer prayer? A resounding no is most often the answer that God gives to many of our very self -centered and selfish prayers, which are based upon gross ignorance of the future and gross ignorance of what is best for us.
15:10: And so, what if it was not God's plan for Jabez? What if in God's providence,
15:17: God had something else in store for Jabez that would be much better for him? Maybe to live a life of obscure service so that he might have great reward in heaven.
15:27: Would that not be an answer to his prayer as well? I see a fundamental flaw in the very thinking of what constitutes an answer to prayer in the first place, right off the bat.
15:40: But then, and this has been pointed out by many others, in fact,
15:46: I'm not really sure if this is real, but someone pointed me to a book,
15:53: I believe by Douglas Jones, up there in Moscow, Idaho, called The Mantra of Jabez.
16:00: And I'm not sure if it's a real book or not. I guess it is. I've seen it offered.
16:06: I haven't followed the shopping cart to the point where maybe it pops up a screen and says, ah, you're a fool. But there's an excellent article put out by,
16:16: I believe it's Douglas Jones, it might be Douglas Wilson, one of the two, absolutely shredding the prayer of Jabez.
16:25: And he, of course, makes the same point that I'm making right at this point, and that is,
16:32: I picked up my Bible and read verse 10, the prayer of Jabez. Here's the line, something in his prayer would explain the mystery it had to.
16:39: Why? Why? You see, what is skipped over in all of this, especially in answering the question why
16:48: God granted him what he requested, was, it is assumed from the start that the phrase,
16:57: Jabez was more honorable than his brothers, is not and cannot be the basis for why
17:04: God granted him what he requested. The idea of being a man of character, a man of obedience, of concern for God's glory, of concern for God's law and his righteous commandments, that's just skipped over.
17:19: Somehow, there must be something in the prayer. Well, maybe the prayer actually comes from the character of the man.
17:28: Maybe the prayer reflects the fact that the man himself was more honorable than his brothers, because he didn't pray a prayer,
17:36: Oh Lord, give me riches and give me more money and give me more opportunities to be out front, and things like that.
17:47: Maybe that's why Jabez prayed the way he prayed, because of his character.
17:54: Hmm, maybe. Well, but it started right off the bat. It can't be. It just can't be that.
18:03: You know, in the preface of the book, Dr. Wilkinson says, Well, I think
18:14: God always answers every prayer of his redeemed children. But the question is, how does he do so?
18:23: It's not always with a yes. It's very often with a very loud no, and sometimes
18:30: I think it's with a very loud heavenly chuckle. Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what you would do if I gave you that?
18:39: And we, you know, muddle along and, you know, are confused and so on and so forth, and we don't even know how to pray.
18:46: We don't know what to pray for ourselves in many, many situations. And I'm awful glad that God is not a genie in a bottle.
18:54: And I am awful glad that there are many times that things that I prayed for, God just gave me the heavenly chuckle, because if I had gotten him,
19:03: I'd be ruined. I would be destroyed. I'm very glad that God is not someone that I can simply come along and I can,
19:12: I can, you know, rub the bottle and poof, out comes whatever it is that I want.
19:18: Because sometimes what I want would resound greatly against God's glory, and I don't want that.
19:24: I don't want that. So there's some issues right off the bat. The book doesn't address the nature of prayer in the sense of, well, when you talk about answered prayer, what does that mean?
19:38: What does that mean? Well, there's much more here. I've marked a few things that go along, and I really want to get to a specific area, and I may end up, you know, talking way too much and maybe preaching way too much.
19:52: We will be taking your phone calls. I would like to, if we can, at least at the beginning here, if you do wish to call, keep calls to the subject of the
20:02: Prayer of Jabez. I mean, maybe you're in a church where this stuff's going around. Maybe you have some insights you could share with us concerning some situations that have arisen as a result of that, 866 -854 -6763, 866 -854 -6763.
20:19: Maybe you'd just like to make a comment on evangelicalism that has become so incredibly surface level that it can embrace this kind of pop theology to the point of dropping everything else in the life of a church and focusing upon this kind of stuff that doesn't answer many of the most important questions at all.
20:47: And yet people just buy into this stuff, and we spend literally millions of dollars. I can guarantee you if someone wrote a 90 -page book on, well, the prayers of Paul, and the prayers where Paul, for example,
21:09: Paul specifically prays that believers would understand the true knowledge of God, that they would understand what it means to enter into the sufferings that are ours in Christ.
21:25: That book really wouldn't do well. I don't think a book based on Mark chapter 8 and Jesus' call to, in essence, die to self and to be crucified,
21:41: I don't see that quite getting the same type of response as the prayer of Jabez is.
21:51: What do you think? 866, 854, 67, 63. After, at the end of the quotation
21:59: I read you before, this ends on page 11, we were told that I would tell you that it was the cry of a gimper named
22:06: Jabez who is still remembered not for what he did, but for what he prayed. I mean,
22:11: I suggest Jabez should be remembered for who he was or who God made him to be. The prayer comes from who he was, not the other way around.
22:21: I think there is a fundamental bad spin on this particular perspective that is being promoted in the book.
22:30: Now, the book does not pretend to give an argumentation concerning the exegesis of the text.
22:38: There really isn't much in the way of exegesis in the book, and there's a lot of personal stories, and personal stories work well.
22:47: Personal stories, there's nothing wrong with personal stories, except when personal stories become the very substance of one's argumentation.
22:58: So, I haven't marked something on every single page because, you know, when someone tells a personal story, it's a personal story.
23:05: Now, when that personal story then becomes part of the exegesis, it becomes part of the argument, that's different.
23:10: Then we have to say, well, wait a minute, how does your personal story become relevant to my particular situation?
23:19: But a little description of Jabez is found on page 14. What was the secret to the enduring reputation of Jabez?
23:26: You can search from front to back in your Bible as I have, and you won't find any more information we have in these two brief verses.
23:32: Well, that's correct. That's all we have about Jabez is 1 Chronicles 4, 9, and 10.
23:39: Then we have some bulleted points where he summarizes what he's seeing here.
23:46: Things started badly for a person no one had ever heard of. He prayed an unusual one -sentence prayer.
23:53: Things ended extraordinarily well. That's the bulleted summary on the part of Dr.
24:00: Wilkinson on Jabez. You notice what's missing? Yeah, the thing that's missing all the way through.
24:09: It should have been, things started badly for a person no one had ever heard of, and this mother had difficulty in giving him birth, but that doesn't necessarily tell us anything about what his upbringing was about.
24:21: Point two, God caused him to be an honorable man who was concerned to live a godly life.
24:30: Point three, as a result, he prayed a not so unusual at all one -sentence prayer that flowed from his life of integrity, and point four,
24:40: God graciously granted to him what he requested in line with a
24:45: New Testament passage that says the prayer of a righteous man avails much. Not that righteous men boss
24:52: God around, but because righteous men pray in accordance with the will of God. Maybe that wouldn't sell well either, and hey, you know,
25:00: I've written 17 books, and if you put all of my books together and then multiply them all by 10, they haven't sold as many as this, so if that means something, then, then he must be right and I must be wrong about everything.
25:17: But I sort of get the feeling that maybe, possibly, it'd be really hard for anyone to argue in a one -on -one situation that what
25:29: I just said isn't a much better summary of 1 Chronicles 4, 9 through 10 than what is offered here.
25:35: And again, it is that element of integrity in Jabez himself that has to be removed, because you see, there's really no emphasis in this book upon that very biblical precedence, and that being the prayer of a righteous man avails much.
26:00: You see, Jesus himself talks about praying in accordance with the will of God.
26:07: Now that gets real complicated, and it probably isn't going to sell as many books, and so we don't want to talk about that. But if we really want to talk, if this is being sold to somebody other than Jews living at the time, maybe, of David, who only have a portion of the
26:25: Old Testament, don't even have all the Old Testament, maybe 400 years before Christ, if this is being sold to evangelicals who have the
26:33: New Testament, shouldn't we, like, have a balanced view of prayer, maybe? Maybe we should take into consideration what the
26:42: New Testament teaches about praying in accordance with the will of God and the fact that, hey, folks, guess what?
26:48: Very frequently, for the believer, the will of God involves suffering.
26:55: Yes, suffering. What if it was God's will for Jabez to suffer?
27:04: Then God would have granted him what he requested in a different way. And maybe
27:10: God wouldn't have granted him that at all. In fact, I remember a fellow named Paul. And Paul had something that pained him, a thorn in the flesh.
27:19: We don't know the exact nature of it. It may have actually been something that caused pain in the flesh. We're really not certain.
27:26: But we know he had a thorn in the flesh, and three times he prayed. Maybe he didn't know about the prayer of Jabez.
27:33: Maybe Paul just, you know, it was early on, and he hadn't done his yearly Bible reading through 1
27:39: Chronicles and hadn't run into this. In fact, I don't see anybody in the New Testament saying, just pray the prayer of Jabez.
27:47: But maybe that was what it was. But he kept praying, and God kept saying, nope, nope, nope. My grace is sufficient for you.
27:54: And if it was God's will for Jabez that he experience his own name in his own life, pain and suffering, would
28:03: Jabez's prayer have changed God's plans? Hmm, good question.
28:09: 866 -854 -6763. I've only started on the prayer of Jabez.
28:15: Ready for your comments as well. 866 -854 -6763. We'll be right back.
28:24: And welcome back to Dividing Line. My name is James White. We're talking about the prayer of Jabez today, and I've only begun looking through a couple of the statements that are made in this particular book.
28:39: Specifically, looking at page 16 now, and we will be taking some phone calls. We have one caller online, and we'll be taking your calls at 866 -854 -6763.
28:54: On page 16, we have, right after being informed of Dr.
29:00: Wilkinson's teaching, an audience of 9 ,000 in Dallas, the prayer of Jabez.
29:09: We have afterwards a gathering together, and people talking about how many years they've been praying this prayer.
29:17: And Dr. Wilkins says, I told them, friends, I've been praying Jabez for more than half my life.
29:23: And I immediately stopped, and I go, what does it mean to pray Jabez?
29:30: I mean, pray Jabez. What does that mean?
29:38: I mean, talk about something new. Pray Jabez. Maybe that's what, maybe that's what it's all about, is this, this issue of finding something new.
29:49: Because I've, I don't, again, I don't remember the New Testament talking about praying
29:54: Jabez, or anything of the kind. I've been praying Jabez for more than half my life.
30:00: I wonder, um, I wonder what that means.
30:07: I wonder what Jabez would have thought about that. I, I, I really, really don't know.
30:13: Page 17, God really does have unclaimed blessings waiting for you, my friend.
30:20: There is the, there is the assertion. God really does have unclaimed blessings waiting for you, my friend.
30:27: And in fact, later on, we're told a story. And let me see if I can, um, find the specific pages for those of you who, uh, have this.
30:39: Yeah, Mr. Jones goes to heaven, starting on page 25. And Mr. Jones goes to heaven, and he sees a, uh, he sees a warehouse.
30:50: And, uh, Peter says, you, you don't want to go in there. Oh, yes, I do. So he goes in. And, uh, uh, let's see.
30:58: Finally, Peter relents. When the apostle opens the door, Mr. Jones almost knocks him over in his haste to enter. It turns out that the enormous building is filled with row after row of shelves, floor to ceiling, each stacked neatly with white boxes tied in red ribbons.
31:11: These boxes all have names on them, Mr. Jones muses aloud. Then, turning to Peter, he asks, do
31:17: I have one? Yes, you do. Peter tries to guide Mr. Jones back outside. Frankly, Peter says, if I were you, but Mr.
31:24: Jones is already dashing toward the J -Aisle to find his box. Peter follows, shaking his head.
31:30: He catches up with Mr. Jones, just as he is slipping the red ribbon off his box and popping the lid. Looking inside, Jones has a moment of instant recognition.
31:38: And he lets out a deep sigh, like the ones Peter has heard so many times before. Because there, in Mr. Jones's white box, are all the blessings that God wanted to give him while he was on earth, but Mr.
31:49: Jones had never asked. There is the assertion, unclaimed blessings.
31:58: What are blessings? Hmm. Well, we're not really told.
32:05: Uh, we're not really told in the book. I have heard from others who have heard
32:11: Mr. Wilkinson speak, for example, at the recent CBA meeting, that in talking to bookstore owners, the blessing was listed as, if you will.
32:21: In fact, Dr. Wilkinson even had an altar call at the end of his two -hour talk, where he called bookstore managers and owners forward to commit themselves to praying the prayer of Jabez.
32:39: Yes, we now have Jabez altar calls. And the promise was that if they would do so, that when they came to CBA next year, their bookstores will have had the sales that they had the year before.
32:54: So, um, maybe these prayers, these blessings,
32:59: I'm sorry, maybe they're primarily good things. Um, but isn't, um, isn't in the
33:07: New Testament the blessings listed and defined as things like, um, well, holiness, and sanctification, and the, um, the putting to death of the flesh, living in the spirit, patience.
33:27: Um, isn't it defined very, very differently than that? And in fact, if the real ultimate blessing of the
33:35: Christian life is being conformed the image of Christ, once you get to heaven, um, wouldn't that box be empty?
33:43: Because we are conformed to the image of Christ? Hmm. This image of unclaimed blessings makes
33:57: God look, well, like he does in the prayer of Jabez. Um, it's a concept that basically makes
34:07: God a big gift giver. And whether he's successful in distributing his warehouses, well, seems to be up to us, doesn't it?
34:19: I mean, he wanted to give this stuff, you know. He really wanted to get that stuff out, and he wanted to give it to us, but Hmm.
34:28: Now someone's saying, ah, wait a minute. James did say you have not because you ask not, but what was
34:34: James talking about? Oh, things that wouldn't sell a lot of books.
34:40: Stuff like, uh, the ability to control your tongue, and to love your brother, and, uh, to be unprejudiced in the, uh, ministry of the word, and to, uh, well, not backbite, and, you know, stuff like that.
34:56: And that's, that's not gonna, you know, who's gonna open up a book, or a box, and get all excited about to the fact that, uh, oh, look, if I had just asked,
35:04: I could have had my tongue under control. That's not really, I think, what we're getting at in the, in the story,
35:12: Mr. Jones Goes to Heaven. Unclaimed blessings. So, in other words, if you pray the prayer of Jabez, then you will open the doors of heaven.
35:25: And that, that old, those, that box with the red ribbon is gonna pop open, and blessings are just gonna flow into your, into your life.
35:36: But, if we are going to be wholly biblical about this, then those blessings might take the form of persecution.
35:48: Persecution. Anyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
35:56: Sufferings. Sickness. Yes, even disease. Oh, no, you don't mean that!
36:03: Yes, even disease has been used by God to bring about his own glory. You might find yourself encountering all sorts of things that you would not necessarily define as a blessing in the
36:16: Jabez format. Yeah, that's what the whole
36:21: Bible says. You're saying, oh man, you're just being too hard on this guy.
36:27: He just wants you to pray that God would give you a greater ministry. What's a greater ministry? May I suggest that for a lot of folks who called themselves into the ministry, the greater ministry for them would be to get out of it and work at Circle K?
36:49: Maybe the greater ministry would be to not be that quote -unquote minister of music?
36:56: Maybe it would be to be a janitor in an old folks home. I wonder how many people who are buying the prayer of Jabez and passing it out like candy to their friends would agree with the statement that having a greater ministry given to you might involve you stepping down from a position that you have and accepting a true ministry that actually fits the gifts
37:29: God has given to you that no one in this world will ever see or ever say thank you for.
37:35: I wonder. Something tells me that the book would not be doing as well if that was its real message.
37:47: But I don't think that is its real message. I read to you a section about from last week, page 83, talks about levels of blessing, the cycle of blessing.
38:02: You have asked for and received more blessing, more territory, more power, and more protection, but the growth curve soon starts to spike upwards.
38:09: Yes, folks, you too can cause God's blessings to be put on a graph and have a growth curve for yourself.
38:16: You don't reach the next level of blessing and stay there. You begin again. Lord, bless me indeed, Lord, please enlarge, and so on.
38:22: As the cycle repeats itself, you find that you are steadily moving into wider spheres of blessing and influence, spiraling ever outward and upward into a larger life for God.
38:31: Well, what if that involves just being somebody that no one's ever heard of? Well, anyways,
38:40: I sometimes get a little animated and we do have at least one caller, but it looks like only one caller, which means there's no one else out there who has any particular opinions on the subject of the
38:53: Prayer of Jabez, which means that after we get through with one caller, I will have to begin singing.
38:59: In fact, someone told me that I think at mp3 .com you can find the
39:04: Prayer of Jabez song where you can sing the Prayer of Jabez. And so I'm going to go over there and fire up the
39:12: Explorer here, Internet Explorer. And we're going to go over to mp3 .com and I'm going to find the
39:18: Prayer of Jabez. And if we don't fill up the old phone lines,
39:24: I will start singing the Prayer of Jabez. And I think that will probably get a few of you to call because you don't want that.
39:34: You do not want to hear me singing the Prayer of Jabez because that would...
39:41: Actually, you don't want to hear me singing almost anything at all, but that would really be very, very bad if that actually happened.
39:48: Anyways, let's go ahead and take our first caller and give the rest of you an opportunity to survive this.
39:56: Let's go ahead and talk with Randy in Denver. Hello, Randy. Hello, I'm... There you go.
40:05: There you go. Jabez works. Instead of praying Jabez, I'm reading Jabez and here I am the third week in a row.
40:12: Well, there you go. You just proved by the personal story.
40:20: Personal stories always demonstrate that that's what's true. Anecdotes are irrefutable, right?
40:27: Sadly, they are. But the amazing thing is for so many people, anecdotes are also extremely convincing.
40:34: Well, I believe that I have a special high call to enlarge my territory to talk longer so we don't have to hear you sing.
40:44: that would be enlarging your territory, but it would be only enlarging it as long as I would put up with it because we do have the finger on the button here.
40:53: Please do not pull a brother camping on us and drone on for the next 20 minutes about what you would like to say without ever really getting to what you say because we know that in 3rd
41:07: Chronicles 14 .10, the word seven appears twice, which means that in point of fact, you should have filed your 1040s months ago.
41:15: Anyways, I'm sorry. I'm in Denver. Okay, now let me back up here.
41:21: This is Wilkinson? No, no, Hank Hanegraaff. The prayer of Jesus. Yeah, you haven't heard about it?
41:27: No. I'm holding one right here in my hands. And what is this? It's uh, well, his counterpart, it's exact same size, the same kind of hardcover binding and uh, you know, same handy format and similar price and all that, but it focuses on the
41:42: Lord's prayer instead of one. Oh, very good. Yes. And so does it sort it does it purposely sort of similar color scheme and stuff?
41:51: The colors are different, but I mean we're talking exact size, exact thickness. Uh, his picture is in the same place on the back cover.
41:58: Uh, you know, I mean, it's obviously meant to match up. Well, good. Have you had, uh, can you give us a brief, have you had a chance to look at yet?
42:07: Well, actually I, when I went out Saturday, uh, two weeks ago, I purchased it. I think we got there 15 minutes before the service started and he had stacks in there.
42:15: They just got them from the printer. And uh, I thought, wow, I hadn't even heard of this book and I have it in my hands and I still don't have the guy who justifies, but that's another story.
42:23: Hey, hey, I, I, oh, by the way, and why can I hear someone in the other room has turned their microphone on.
42:28: I can hear them very clearly. Uh, why, um, I forgot to mention this and I do need to announce this.
42:34: Uh, rich, do you have something to say? Okay, I can hear you guys real well in there. Um, uh, the date, the release date on uh, the
42:44: God who justifies has been moved again by Bethany house up a week. Uh, so instead of the 23rd of August, it's now the 16th of August, which
42:53: I think is only what, uh, three weeks from now. Well, I don't mind getting the 23rd if you sign them first. Uh, pre -orders, you know?
43:01: Yeah. Well, you know, uh, I suppose I could possibly, uh, uh, you know, sign the,
43:07: I don't know how many we've got, like 200 or so, uh, ordered. So I suppose I could work on it. Hank signed that many copies of prayer of Jesus while I was standing there.
43:14: Oh, yeah. I know. I know. I know. I've, I've stood there while he's signed books before and uh, Hank sells more books in a day than I've sold in my life.
43:22: So that's just let me, uh, let me share my little anecdote with you and Hank thing summary. But I, I, because I had a lot of friends and relatives who were into it,
43:30: I decided to buy, you know, half a dozen copies of Hank's, but I had, um, prayer of J -Biz with me.
43:36: And so as we're going through the line, I, uh, I snuck that on top and then when I got up to him and he's, you know, reaching to grab the books and sign them,
43:42: I had it in the pile and J -Biz was on top. So I did get a chuckle out of him. And then
43:48: I pulled it away and let him sign his book instead, but he enjoyed that. Did you, did he say anything in his talk about the prayer of J -Biz?
43:56: Yeah, very, very little. Let me tell you what happened. I, I got the book, uh, 15 minutes before it started.
44:01: I cheated a little bit during, they had some worship music. It was a regular Sunday night service. And by the time he was introduced and got up there,
44:08: I'd already finished the book. So, um, you know, it's one of these 90, 90 pages. And uh, and so I had it down and uh, he started speaking and it sounded very familiar.
44:18: So I, I turned to chapter one, showed my wife where, uh, he was reading and for the rest of the service, she skipped through the book and followed and I think he changed eight words.
44:29: The entire message was all excerpts from his book. So basically he, he, he got up and read his book for us. But, uh, it's a good book.
44:35: It's, it's, uh, you know, everything's aimed at, uh, your will be done instead of on me, me, me. And, uh, he does have a couple of brief mentions.
44:44: He mentions a, uh, uh, I think the name was J -Biz Stone from, uh, yeah, The Devil and Daniel Webster, an
44:50: Academy Award winning movie. Yes. And so he mentions J -Biz Stone in there and, uh, you know, talks about the, uh, the devil going for his soul and looking for earthly blessings and that kind of stuff.
45:00: And he writes a little parable kind of like, um, uh, C .S. Lewis's where it's my dear
45:07: Jezebelzebub. And it's a, it's a little letter on attacking Christians from, uh, Lord Beelzebub. And, uh, he talks about making people, uh, eager to be blessed and focusing on their own stuff.
45:17: Little, uh, little parable like, um, screw tape letters. But, um, overall actually
45:23: I was surprised how little he mentioned J -Biz. There's probably, you know, two, three mentions of it. And in the introduction he talks about how it's, you know, a big seller.
45:31: But really the, the whole book is focusing rather on, on Matthew and, and Christ, uh, you know, the
45:37: Lord's Prayer in Matthew. You could ask real quick who published it. Uh, you could. And flipping to the back, it's
45:42: Word Publishing. So they released it. He was there getting his gold medallion for resurrection.
45:48: It's got, uh, theology category gold. And, uh, and so while he was there, they, uh, they started the push to release the
45:55: Prayer of Jesus. The interesting thing is I went to his website and didn't really see much on it. So. And I have not, uh, heard anything about it, uh, on Bible Answer Man either.
46:05: So. Yeah, I'm not sure what the deal is. They did say that they didn't even expect to have it. And, uh, you know, they were, they were able to get a couple of cases of books for us, uh,
46:14: Saturday, that Saturday, two weeks ago. But I'm not sure if they, you know, didn't hit the official release date yet, if they have a promotional.
46:20: That's possible. Yeah, that's, that's, that's possible. Uh, I think you're correct about that. Uh, I'd like to, uh, oh, uh,
46:27: Warren got an ad in the mail yesterday. Okay. Well, they're starting to push it then. Um, I'd like to make a prediction, by the way, in light of, uh, the, uh, the, uh, gold medallion for resurrection.
46:36: The God who justifies will not be even in the running. Okay. Just, uh, just thought
46:42: I'd let you know that, uh, it is simply not, uh, politically correct enough. Uh, not that the resurrection necessarily is, but, uh,
46:49: Hank's got a name and Hank, uh, Hank writes a book and it's, uh, you know, first runs probably 250 ,000 copies minimum.
46:56: So just make a, just make a note of that. I predict, uh, here, uh, on the dividing line that, uh, that, uh, the
47:03: God who justifies will not make a blip on the, uh, on the radar screen. Well, I'll, I'll read it anyway, and I do have a publisher and a color printer.
47:11: I could maybe make one for you. But, uh, I did want to mention a couple of other ones. Were you aware that, uh,
47:20: Douglas Jones has written a book? Yeah, The Mantra of Jabez. That's what I was talking about at the beginning and I, uh, yeah,
47:26: I mentioned it and I, I had read the article at, like, discerningreaders .com
47:31: or whatever it was and, uh, it was so satirical that I had to wonder, hmm,
47:38: I wonder if there actually really is a book. I didn't follow the link to the order page, uh, for fear of something coming up saying, you moron, this is a, this is a joke, you know, type of a thing, but, uh, uh, that is interesting.
47:49: I would like to take a look at it. And, uh, it is a shame. There are some tremendous books on New Testament prayers, especially the prayers of Paul.
47:57: Uh, but they, you know, they sit in obscurity, uh, you know, on a shelf someplace because to really, uh, deal with those prayers takes more than 90 stinking pages of a small, of a small book.
48:11: Well, I think half of it's the, uh, the results site. Have you had a chance to, uh, do some browsing on the Prayer of Jabez official website?
48:18: Yes, uh, I have and it's, um, fascinating. Well, what I, I'm, uh, just actually was hoping to have it done today, but I had some other issues come up.
48:26: So probably another couple of days, but I've been putting together my little review of it and, uh, for my website. And I've also been making a little appendix article where I've got quotes from that site and comments.
48:36: But what I found was, you know, of course, you got these newbies that type in all uppercase or maybe they're so excited.
48:42: They're just yelling. Yeah, that's possible. Yes. But like the first one I mentioned on my site is, you know, on day two, I closed a $4 ,000 deal in less than an hour, you know, and that there's your, there's your message.
48:52: There's your, your Jabez praise. No, there's your sales. There's the explanation of your sales figures.
48:58: Exactly. We've got people in dream houses. But one of my favorite ones, I don't know if you went through the whole thing. Uh, you probably noticed how they got the little subject lines and then, you know, preceding the actual, uh, emails.
49:08: But one was pastor's wife able to comfort child scared by mouse. And I thought, you know, without Jabez, this poor child would be in fear.
49:19: So I think there is a real positive side to it there that, uh, you know, somewhere tonight a child will be sleeping peacefully.
49:25: Because, because the prayer of Jabez. Yes. I think that would be very, I think it makes me feel like a terrible, horrible person for having dissed the book.
49:32: But, uh, did you run across the, uh, the dog named Sophie? I've, someone posted in the chat channel something about a, a puppy dog and I don't remember what the context was.
49:41: Well, what happened was in the book, if you've just read it recently, you probably remember him talking about sitting next to a lady on a plane and the flight was delayed and her name was
49:48: Sophie. And so, um, this other lady writes into the website and says that in a part of the book
49:54: I was reading Dr. Wilkinson had been waiting in an airport due to delayed flight because of a seating change. He sat next to Sophie.
50:00: Here I was delayed at the airport sitting next to someone because of a seating change. About that time I asked her dog's name.
50:06: Sophie, she replied. At that moment I knew without a doubt God was reassuring me that he is in control and I can be bold in my pursuit of his will.
50:14: So thank you, Sophie. Now, this is, this is what's really incredible.
50:20: About 10 years ago I had to fly from Canada to San Jose and I was delayed at the airport because a pilot left the light on, believe it or not, and ran the battery down.
50:29: But I was delayed at the airport and I had to catch a flight to meet my software publisher and he had a dog named
50:34: Sophie himself. Wow. And I didn't even know about Jabez back then. Well, but now you do so you can see what the connection was.
50:42: Well, I think that's been guiding my life. So although I haven't yet prayed Jabez, I've read Jabez a couple of times and even if you read it negatively it's, it's power takes over and you can get on dividing line.
50:52: It's phenomenal. Oh, yeah, fighting through the crowd to get on here is real tough, Bucko. Let me tell you something.
50:58: We've got people slipping Warren and Rich 20s trying to get on the air right now. I mean, they're banging on the door in there.
51:04: Well, I'm just glad you know that I'm my credit card number. But what fascinated me the most is that I don't know if you heard the latest from Billy Graham but now they're giving away
51:13: Jabez. I heard What was it? I heard this week something about who was oh that Wilkinson and the prayer of Jabez was on focus on the family.
51:22: Oh, yeah, that's got one of the big pushes behind it. I think the sales probably jumped a million the next week.
51:28: Yep, and they wrote now. I haven't seen it, but it's supposedly Dobson wrote a letter stating that this is one of the most important letters he'd ever written and then he talked about Jabez but I haven't seen that for myself yet.
51:39: Well at that point I just I shake my head because when you think of some of the things that Dr.
51:45: Dobson has addressed such as homosexuality in the church abortion stem cell research, etc, etc, etc to to say this is one of the most important letters ever written and then refer to a book that quite honestly,
52:03: I you know, we laugh and we joke about some things because some of these things are silly but Simply stated this is a demonstration of the the the absolutely incredibly shallow level of Evangelicalism today and how easily we are, you know bobbles bangles and beads, you know it's it's throw somebody the cheapy beads from from the
52:29: What's down New Orleans of Mardi Gras, right, you know, we're satisfied with plastic beads from Taiwan and yet at the same time
52:40: We can we can see leading evangelicals who don't seem to understand that justification by faith defines the very gospel itself
52:47: And if you dare say something you're divisive Just amazing No That's the
53:03: I hadn't even I was just starting to hear Somebody mentioned things about like what what's that about?
53:09: I have no idea All right. Well, they've re -quoted on the website So if you go to prayer of Javis calm You can click on under PR and reviews or whatever and they do have a reprint of the time article
53:18: What was interesting there? Is that? One of the quotes from the article said it's very evangelical and very
53:24: American this whole notion that if you know The right technique the right form that prayer will be efficient and effective kind of like golf.
53:32: Oh I thought that kind of sums it up Wow, oh Wow, that just I'm sorry
53:40: Taking a few deep breaths there just to try to catch catch up on. Yeah I just went to the website and you said it will press releases and articles.
53:47: Yeah Hey, you know, you know what?
53:52: I'm really missing I'm gonna let everybody know I'm missing the the leather edition here You know,
53:57: I don't even have any of the gift or teen or devotional I've just got a borrowed copy of the main original one.
54:05: Well, you know what I actually did buy it. I Did I fact I bought it at Barnes &
54:10: Noble? Yeah, well I had to because you know, I started finally started seeing all this stuff and I'm like Wow, you know what?
54:19: Someone's gonna start asking me about this and if I haven't read it then I'm gonna sit there going on So I I actually, you know took the time to take a look at it and But anyways, are you gonna get the gift edition when it comes out next month?
54:33: Oh is what's the gift edition? It's illustrated Illustrated with pictures.
54:39: Yes inspiring pictures. Oh, it's a oh the painter with light guy. I bet There come on is that not the best marketing idea, you know ever heard in your life
54:50: Except that you know, he beat you to it. He just wrote his own book. Oh, no. Oh, yeah Similar concept, but he wrote his own.
54:57: Yeah, that that's another topic for a future show. I just saw it last week Same kind of pop psychology feel good.
55:07: Yes pseudo evangelicalism from what I've heard I mean, it's uh, if anything, it's less biblical and j -biz and more focused on, you know
55:14: Feel good and and look at the pictures and be So it never ends but here's what
55:20: I'm thinking. Do you think if he? Illustrated the guy that justifies we could get a boost. Oh man alive
55:27: That would be the only thing that would get it past, you know, the dozen sold mark because I've already hit up all my family and All my friends, you know, they've they've already, you know put up with it and but if we put some pretty pictures in it
55:41: It would it would help a lot especially near the sections with a lot of Greek That would help greatly to do something like that I've seen
55:53: I saw it but I didn't get it and I I'm just I'm not gonna get secrets of the vine until somebody sends me the leather -bound edition of Prayer of Jabez and I think there's you know, it's sort of like On the 700
56:06: Club, you know when Pat Robertson can see someone out there who needs To to send in a certain amount of money
56:13: I see someone out there who needs to send me the leather -bound prayer of Jabez. That's that's No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no you see things
56:26: In that no. No, it's spiritual That's how that's how he does it on the 700
56:34: Please I can only take so much in one day. Okay, you know, I'm starting to overdose here and I'm actually starting to wonder how you know so much about these things
56:52: And my dad's only brother was To the guest of honor there my sister my new sister -in -law
56:57: That was live with a wedding gift was prayer of Jabez and I had another sister and a brother that were a brother -in -law that were all excited about it and so Unfortunately, it's infiltrated my very own family
57:09: Mm -hmm, so I've been doing a little research on it and and put some stuff together I did buy a couple copies for them of prayer of Jesus and And you know try to counter a bit but no no, no leather editions
57:20: No audio, but I do believe that I would never have got on dividing line three weeks in a row unless I've been reading
57:26: Jabez well Okay, I I guess I'm gonna have to you know, just change my entire view because that cuz
57:31: I you must be right No, so I'm getting ready to sing but actually what's the name of that the painter with light guy?
57:41: What's the name again? Oh I can't remember. No, my mind just went by try to Thomas Kinkade Kinkade Maybe saw the article and what was it prayed, you know
57:52: The weekly newspaper magazine a few months ago talking about what's he pulling out like five or six million dollars a year or more than that I don't even want to think about that.
57:59: But yeah, it's kind of crazy. Hey, the other thing we can talk about someday is My little
58:05: King James experiences, but that's a whole other story I taught at a Christian school where I was the
58:10: Bible teacher taught apologetics in the senior high and It was a King James only gang that gave me of course the infamous
58:18: Gale book and said it was one of the you know The greatest books written. Well, that's before J. Best came out.
58:24: Maybe that is yes. Yes. Yes I wonder what Gale Ripplingers take on the prayer of J. Best is that's that'd be something interesting to listen to James so he's probably the money
58:34: But yeah, that's a whole whole other thing there. Currently. I'm banned from the campus of that high school
58:40: Oh under threat of arrest if I ever set foot there again, so Wow have that way of Really a little excitable don't think
58:49: I wouldn't know I've never never received any emails from any
58:54: King James Only folks that were in any way shape or form filled with ad hominem argumentation or condemning me to the pits of hell
59:00: I've never seen any websites dedicated to me Yes, well, maybe maybe that's maybe this is something
59:08: I need to look into thank you very much for sharing these things We've gone way over time. You've you got I don't know 20 minutes out of us and stuff like that.
59:15: That's pretty good That's pretty good. Actually real quick. Oh, yeah, sure The request 1a.
59:20: Is there any punctual? Is there a space between request and 1a because I did get the AV 1611, but I didn't get the request 1a
59:27: No, it's request 1a, but I've gotten a number of bounce backs people whose email servers do not accept certain sizes of Actually, no, it's the other way around No You know, it's been so long let me look at the last one that was
59:52: Actually request space 1a works. Yeah that I Would capitalize request and I would capitalize the a but I put a yeah all of them that I've seen that have worked here have had
01:00:09: Capitalized our request space then one and capitalized a all right. Okay Thanks a lot.
01:00:22: Take care. All right. God bless 866 8 5 4 67 63 went a little over time there. So let's go ahead and take our break and then
01:00:30: When we come back I will sing the prayer of Jabez for you unless you call in at 8 6 6 8 5 4 67 63 we'll be right back and welcome back to the dividing line
01:00:42: I was just looking at this Times article posted on the prayer of Jabez webpage
01:00:48: He suggests suggests that although most Americans believe in prayer They save it for emergencies and Jabez is relatively low -key daily program may be a welcome novelty
01:00:58: Pw's Garrett agrees It's very evangelical and very American this whole notion that if you know the right technique the right form
01:01:07: The prayer will be efficient and effective kind of like golf five point seven million copies
01:01:19: Five point seven million copies folks, and it's kind of like golf
01:01:30: Unbelievable Well, I'm looking at the Little window that I use for the folks in the other side of the wall to communicate with me
01:01:38: And even though I see a light flashing No one has told me that anyone's online which means that As I promised
01:01:47: I will need to pray the prayer of Jabez sing the prayer of Jabez for you
01:01:56: I Get my voice ready here. Oh look at that. They finally told me who's on line one
01:02:05: Warren Warren is going to sing warning you come in here. We could do a duet Warren Don't I don't
01:02:14: I'm not hearing anything back from Warren. I thought Warren. I could sing could sing together
01:02:20: I'm not seeing Warren coming around the corner Huh, oh well yes
01:02:28: That would definitely motivate people to call if you if you sang with me
01:02:36: They would pray the prayer of Jabez the imprecatory prayer of Jabez That Warren's head would explode yes,
01:02:48: I wonder if there is an imprecatory prayer of Jabez that we could use that would That would be really interesting because it's it talks about so that it will not be a pain to me in the
01:02:58: King James version So maybe if we did that It would be painful to many people and therefore the prayer of Jabez would become imprecatory and would cause you to To have laryngitis or to be struck deaf a debt not deaf well
01:03:13: That would strike the rest of us deaf, but the rest of us would be that you would be struck dumb or something It Does volume number two the prayer of Jabez the the dark side
01:03:25: Yes, that would actually volume two is out the secrets of the vine or whatever that is and that's only sold like one point something million
01:03:31: I forget what that was but well anyways let's go ahead and and I'm assuming that since We only know a certain number of people that Probably the the the
01:03:47: Johnny online one is is the Johnny that that we all know and love Who probably is only calling in because he too?
01:03:55: Is very very scared that I am going to sing The the prayer of Jabez I could chant the prayer of Jabez because I think it's the mantra of Jabez so I will work
01:04:06: For I'll work on a Gregorian version of the mantra of Jabez Is that Johnny would that be okay?
01:04:17: I've gotten permission from Johnny to come up with a Gregorian version of the prayer of Jabez.
01:04:23: It's all I needed if you had said no I wouldn't have done it, but because you say yes I'll come up with a Gregorian version of the prayer of Jabez for next week and everyone will thank you for that You know
01:04:35: Gregorian chant You're not familiar with Gregorian chance Sound on Rich make sure my computer sound is up.
01:04:47: I'll show you a Gregorian chance sound chat Oops guys spell it right
01:04:53: Can't spell fast You know
01:05:05: I could almost put Jabez to that enlarge my board there you go, that's a Gregorian chant
01:05:14: Uh well you're 0 for 1 so far you want to try again Johnny do you know why?
01:05:29: Because you use AOL. That's why Well we do suggest that people get a real
01:05:38: ISP yes Heard of the prayer of Jabez I was telling
01:05:44: Warren about that, but I've only heard of it. I've heard Hank talk about it on the back by Lancer man, but never really give any commentary on it at least the times
01:05:54: I've heard him. I don't hear him every day But From what
01:05:59: I hear this is the first time. I'm hearing something bad about it, so I'm wondering
01:06:06: I haven't read the book yet, but just making sure you know that but I'm wondering exactly what would
01:06:11: Is this book in any way associated with you know the Word of Faith garbage? Well Dr..
01:06:20: Wilkinson would I think cringe to hear the criticism however
01:06:29: To me I see no functional difference There is a difference in basis the word faith material is based upon the assertion
01:06:39: That faith is a substance it has a particular Theological background to it that most word faith is don't understand
01:06:46: But if you listen to Copeland and Hagen and the others there is a at least a theological basis it's a heretical theological basis, but there is a
01:06:54: Theological basis for what they assert regarding the nature of faith And why it is that we have the ability to speak things into existence through the power of faith but in reality
01:07:07: The problem is and I need to let the folks inside know you need to block my system.
01:07:13: It's trying to send a big Booger out, and I can't get it to stop doing it
01:07:19: People are requesting that file immediately folks Please do not request the file while we're on the air because that'll mess everything up We might the system will start trying to send out these multiple multiple megabyte files to everybody
01:07:32: Please wait until after the program's over to request those particular things anyways So they at least have a basis
01:07:39: Wilkinson is not saying that your your statement of faith or something like that that faith is a substance all the rest of stuff
01:07:46: So he would say no no no it's not that however Functionally the idea is
01:07:56: God will always answer the prayer of Jabez and God will always expand your ministry
01:08:01: What really really really concerns me about the book is that it does not?
01:08:08: since it is not a a Pan canonical work that is it does not draw from the entirety of Scripture the result of that is that the reality that an expansion of your ministry may well involve from a human perspective a ministry that no one ever sees a ministry of obscurity that it may involve
01:08:32: Deprivation of physical Possessions and the suffering and persecution and all those types of that's not mentioned
01:08:40: That's not a part of the appeal of the prayer of Jabez and so all of the examples that are used in the book
01:08:47: That's not ever brought up And so those people who are praying it are praying it with the same kind of idea that well
01:08:56: I want God's blessings and therefore Those blessings have a certain nature to them, and so that's one of my big problems
01:09:14: That that might be a good way of putting it I don't think that Copeland would have would object to the prayer of Jabez because he'd read it within the context of his
01:09:25: Of his perspective Of but yeah, you'd probably be right all right.
01:09:31: That's a good way of putting it No He's been well known he went to Dallas theological seminary
01:09:50: And he's the founder and president of walk through the Bible ministries, which was real big number of years ago
01:09:56: This was You know this just simply scratched an itch
01:10:02: It's it appeals to this idea of you know follow Follow this particular program and poof you have these results and the idea that God would answer
01:10:15: Prayer well first of all I have a problem with the idea of repetitious prayer in the first place the idea of replaying The same prayer over and over again
01:10:22: Obviously Jesus did not exactly teach us to do that prayer is supposed to be done with In a spirit of truth and with the engagement of our mind but beyond that This whole concept of God answering the same prayer
01:10:39: Prayer the same way with each person just simply isn't isn't biblical. It just simply doesn't work
01:10:50: Believe and I'm sure that you agree with That I believe that guys like Copeland caps and well,
01:10:56: I've read Christianity Christians I'm sure you have as well where you find expose many of the heresies
01:11:03: Their heresies and the word of faith keep a movement and in the majority of the people on TBM I do believe that there's heresy there
01:11:12: But would you say that the prayer of J. Best has crossed the line from orthodoxy to heresy or just not in the book itself?
01:11:19: The the problem with the book itself now you go to the website and some of the some of the goofiness
01:11:25: Website is is well goofy But the book itself, I would not identify as being the same level as people teaching that Jesus You know was born again in hell and and that kind of thing.
01:11:37: The problem with the book is its lack of balance its immaturity It is it is only a part of the truth and it leaves out the important part of the truth
01:11:46: That's that's the problem with the prayer of J. Best is that it does not if you want to write a book on the subject of What Christians should be praying the book the prayer of J.
01:11:58: Best is not what you need to read It is it is not a sound biblical book on prayer in the
01:12:06: New Testament and the object of prayer Honestly if you want to have a good book on the subject of prayer in the
01:12:16: New Testament, it would have to be focused upon What it is that the Apostle Paul I believe models for us within the church as what
01:12:26: Christians should find to be of their most concern and That is to have a true knowledge of God to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ to be filled with the assurance of his
01:12:38: His of his perfect savior hood of his work in our behalf a knowledge of His work that would build us up in the faith those that we find in Ephesians and Colossians Especially and there is an excellent book on that out there
01:12:54: Arthur W. Pink's studies in Paul but the simple fact the matter is it's about 280 300 pages small prints it doesn't have nice little subheaders in it and It doesn't give you anything where you can just turn your mind off and say the same prayer every day
01:13:15: And so that's why it doesn't sell nearly as well as that is Well The basic outlook of the concept of prayer is giving well do this and you'll grow more mature
01:13:36: Be spiritually more enhanced or closer to God. It would be subject to that interpretation. Yes I don't think that Wilkinson intends it to be that way
01:13:44: But I think Wilkinson may be in a situation here where where something he's launched something that he had no idea where in the world it was gonna end up going and and you tend to get caught up in something like that, so It can have that kind of imbalance to it.
01:14:00: There's no two ways about it I think I think if you're talking to anybody who's gotten into the prayer of Jabez what you need to ask them is
01:14:05: Well, that's that's that's really interesting But a a one -sentence prayer from the the
01:14:12: Old Testament How about how about we look at the multi -paragraph prayers of the
01:14:18: Apostle in the new specifically for New Covenant believers? Who are following Jesus Christ?
01:14:26: Have you prayed that prayer recently? And if not, why not? In fact, could you even now that you can find first Chronicles chapter 4
01:14:35: Could you even tell me where in the New Testament those prayers are found? And if they can't then
01:14:41: I think you'd have a solid basis for saying I think you've become imbalanced. Don't you think? And then you've got a basis for for moving from there
01:14:52: Haven't seen it didn't even know about it until Randy called Didn't even know about it. I'm I'm I'm so far behind.
01:14:58: I'm writing an article right now for An online journal on Sola Scriptura that I need to get done
01:15:03: I'm just trying to get something done on the homosexuality book and I have a bunch of other things that I want to do
01:15:10: I would really like to write a book We were talking about in the channel that I think would be really cool really useful letters to Roman Catholic converts and it would respond to each one of the letters in the surprised by truth series and I'd really like to do that, but it just you know takes time to do this stuff
01:15:32: And so I don't keep up as well as I should I guess on current stuff. I didn't even know about Jay Bestel Probably may and so No, I didn't even know that.
01:15:46: I have not heard anything about I didn't hear anything about on Bible Answer Man. And so I don't know Well, I got one question just on the side about books
01:15:54: I got the table talk magazine Yes, oh you do, okay, well if you're advertising a book on sola scriptura
01:16:07: I don't remember the name of it right? Yes. I'm familiar with the shape of Sola Scriptura by Keith Matheson I've gotten it and I have not actually had the time to read it
01:16:20: I very close friend of mine Who I believe? Knows the doctrine of Sola Scriptura inside and out especially
01:16:29: The well from both a biblical and historical perspective has some issues with it in regards to this idea that in his opinion there is a problem with the book in that it
01:16:42: Sacrifices scriptural perspicuity and Raises a question that it does not answer and that is it in essence gives a role to the church that The church really doesn't have and doesn't identify the nature of the church to give us a means of determining what the church really is and So I'm going on on the word of a man who has read it
01:17:07: Who I trust implicitly to understand those issues And so I I say that I'm going on secondhand information there.
01:17:16: I have not had time to read it Next week by the way, you will not hear my coughs anymore
01:17:28: Despite all the complaints by someone in channel We we are getting a the cough button is actually waiting for arrival arrive
01:17:37: Monday And you will not hear my coughs anymore. So I just thought you all would find that just wonderfully fascinating Well, I don't know that you should really judge a book based upon anyone's recommendation
01:18:03: Really don't So anyways, all righty, sir, we're about out of time. Thank you very much for your call today.
01:18:08: All right. All righty. God bless Alrighty. Bye. Bye Yeah, next week. We do the coughs you will not you will not hear them not because I'm gonna pray the prayer of Jabez and get rid of asthma, but Because I'm gonna have a button around here someplace that I can
01:18:24: I can pop and it'll turn my microphone off and so I can cough myself silly and then turn it back on and you won't even know that I did it and all the big -time radio folks have that Rush has that and Airbase on so forth and they'll be able just they can punch that button.
01:18:41: They can yell the people across the wall You don't hear it all sorts of things like that. Hey, that's a that's a use I hadn't thought about before I can pop that button and start yelling.
01:18:49: It's at Rich and Warren. Cool. That's that's that that's something you probably hadn't thought about Well, anyways,
01:18:55: I didn't really get through much of the book But I think I got through enough.
01:19:01: I think I got through enough Of the particular material to give you an idea of where I'm coming from and I really honestly
01:19:09: Can we use that button when you sing? And that from a person that I think should have donated the money for the cough button personally
01:19:19: That was in the chat channel and that person knows who he is since he was the one grousing and complaining about last week and you know just anyways,
01:19:31: I don't know what in the world I have to say here, but Next week. We're not going to talk about the prayer of Jabez.
01:19:37: How about how about that? We will talk about something other than the prayer of Jabez next week
01:19:42: We will go back to some other topic that may be a little bit more Apologetically oriented shall we say
01:19:50: But we hope that you will be listening in next week we do appreciate the phone calls at eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three and Sometimes folks will drop us a little note about subjects
01:20:02: They'd like to see addressed. Sometimes we can do that. Sometimes that's very helpful, but sometimes
01:20:09: It's a subject or a topic that is well beyond my current area of expertise And I don't necessarily like to address subjects if I simply don't know a whole lot about them
01:20:20: So one of the things that we will be doing in the future. I know some of you have downloaded the King James only presentation we do need to We do need to do that I do need to work through that if you would like the
01:20:32: King James presentation The PowerPoint presentation, maybe that's something we need to be doing because I said we're gonna do it and we haven't done it
01:20:39: We need to do it Send an email to na27aomin .org and put in the subject line
01:20:45: AV 1611 just AV 1611 You don't have to capitalize anything. No spaces. No, nothing
01:20:50: AV 1611. Someone sent AV 1511 last week I sent it back to them just out of mercy
01:20:56: But AV 1611 and that will send you please please please make sure you have enough space to take it
01:21:03: It's about 4 megs People send me requests all the time and they bounce back because you don't have enough room So do that and we'll talk about later.