April 23, 2021 Show with Dr. Conrad Mbewe on “God’s Design for the Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at

ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 23rd

day of April 2021.

And it certainly is, without exaggeration, a very happy Friday for me

because after much hounding and chasing, I finally have

secured Dr. Conrad M. Bayway to be my guest once again on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Dr. M. Bayway has his Ph .D. from the University of Pretoria.

He is the pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, founding chancellor, senior

lecturer, and director of advancement and faculty at African Christian University,

and author and contributor to many books.

And today we are going to be addressing one of his books, God's Design for the Church, and we're

also going to be announcing the G3 Conference 2021, where Dr. M. Bayway will be

on a very large roster of speakers.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my dear friend of many years, Dr. Conrad M.

Bayway.

Thank you.

Yes, and it's hard to believe that it was over 25 years ago that we first

met at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, when you

were speaking for the very first time in the United States.

Yes, that was 1996, very well.

Okay, that was a year off, but I so much fondly remember that.

I remember that we had you over a three -day period of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday

for a conference that weekend, and not including the members of our church, we

had over 500 visitors over those three days due to a very

extensive ad campaign that we ran on the station where I used

to work, WMCA Radio, 570 AM, a Salem media affiliate.

And we aired a very powerful clip of you preaching, and that had our

phones ringing off the hook literally for a month, and then we had over 500 visitors.

What a phenomenal week that was, and it also was the beginning of a friendship

that lasted all these years between you and I.

And I can remember, I forget, I think it was your wife, Felicity, who said, how come you've remained

in contact with Chris Arnz in all these years and remained so close to him?

And I remember you just saying something like, I have no idea.

Oh, great.

Yeah, I remember she was actually helping me man my exhibitor's booth at the Deep South Founders Conference in Mississippi,

Laurel, Mississippi.

I am going to just start off the interview to whet the

appetite of our listeners, who hopefully, many of them

will hopefully join me September 30th through October 2nd at the G3

Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the theme, Christ is Supreme Overall, where you will

be one of over 20 speakers.

I'm so thrilled that you are there again.

I think that you have preached at every one that I have been, where I've been in attendance.

I'm not 100 % sure of that, but I've been at four.

Well, actually, this fall will be my fourth, but I want to play just a clip of a

sermon by you.

At a previous G3 Conference.

If we are going to have courageous hearts, we need to meditate

deeply on the God who is.

As long as we have an inherited religion that

hasn't mesmerized our souls,

that hasn't gripped us to the very depth of our being,

we will never be Lutherans in this generation, never.

Therefore, brethren, we need to be those who meditate deeply.

That was just a little taste for our listeners,.

And we will be announcing all the information that you need throughout the program to register for G3

2021.

I don't know if it's too early to ask you this, but I know that the overall theme is Christ is

Supreme Overall.

Do you have your own subtitle that you have been assigned to speak on,.

Or have you chosen a subtitle

or theme

yet?

Many of our listeners may not realize,.

But you are a very dear friend of Vodie Baucom, who was originally scheduled

to be on the roster at the G3 Conference.

In fact, I believe it was you who contacted Vodie to

invite him to co -labor with you in Zambia, Africa, which he has done.

He uprooted his entire family, his wife and children, and moved to Zambia, but is

currently in the United States because he is recovering from quadruple bypass surgery.

So, it is not 100 certain if he will be healthy enough to

speak this year at the G3 as originally planned, but obviously it's not guaranteed that any of us will be there.

That's all according to God's sovereignty.

But can you give us any kind of an update on Vodie's health?

Because I know a lot of people constantly ask me.

Yes, well, I have been reminding our listeners every single day to pray for him and for his

quick and full recovery, and hopefully that we hear the good news that he is remaining on

the speaking roster at the G3 Conference.

I would love to see him there.

I remember when Paul Washer was removed temporarily from the roster at

a G3 Conference because of his own heart problems, but they put him back on because he recovered,

and it was great to have him present there.

Yeah, amen.

So, tell us about Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

I know that it is a solidly reformed Baptist church.

Tell.

Our

listeners

about

that

church.

If

anybody

wants

to find

out more

information

about

Kibwata.

Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, go to kibwatabaptistchurch .com,

kibwatabaptistchurch .com, and that is spelled k -a -b -w -a -t

-a -baptistchurch .com, and hopefully we'll remember to repeat that.

Now, tell us a little bit more about African Christian University.

I'm very excited to see what the Lord is doing through you and Voti Baucom with that

institution, and let our listeners know not only about what this

university offers and how it benefits the local people, especially of Zambia,

but also how they can help.

Yeah.

I

think

the

Lord

closed

our

eyes.

We

jumped.

That

website

is

acu

-usa

.com,.

A -c -u -dash -u -s -a -dot -com.

Now, just out of curiosity, must you be physically present in Zambia

to benefit from the studies there, especially the Divinity School?

I'm just thinking out loud here that there might be people in our audience spanning the globe.

We have listeners in at least 27

countries, including the United States of America, that we are aware of, and people

might love the opportunity to seek ministerial training with Voti

Baucom and with you, so is that possible to do a remote kind of

course like some colleges and universities and.

Seminaries

offer?

I

remember

when I

saw Voti

speak

at a

conference

here in Pennsylvania.

A couple of months ago before his health declined, very shortly

before his health declined, he was mentioning that in addition to the

agricultural, there are certain industries local to Zambia that are

very large, that you are offering courses

to help people become trained in those specific industries or

fields.

I remember, if I'm not mistaken, I think one of them even surprised me that it was such a

big industry in your area, but can you tell us about those things?

I know that agricultural is a no -brainer for Africa,.

But what else

do

you

offer

there?

And

once

again,

that

website

is acu -usa .com, acu -usa

.com.

And Voti, I'm excited to talk to you about a book that is, I believe,

your latest book, published by Crossway, God's Design for the Church, with a

subtitle, A Guide for African Pastors and Ministry Leaders.

Now, is that subtitle a bit misleading in that

a pastor, no matter where on.

The globe he lives, may benefit greatly from this book?

Yes.

You are

drowning.

I am right now in the studio.

Yeah, and I didn't think I should be.

Most people have shelves for books.

I actually make

shelves

with

my

books.

There you

are.

There

you

are.

We're

going to

be talking about that.

Book when we come back from our first break.

If you have a question for Dr. Conrad Mbewe, send it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C

-H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Conrad Mbewe, right after these messages.

From our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

My friend, Chris Arnson,.

Host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again, for the G3

Conference.

This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

Christ is Supreme Over All.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and

singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad Mbewe, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and

Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321.

This is James White reminding you that.

Christ is supreme over all.

Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, announcing a new.

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Welcome back, this is Chris.

Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Dr. Conrad M. Beyway,

pastor of Coboata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, founding chancellor, senior lecturer, and

director of advancement and faculty at African Christian University, an author and contributor to many

books.

We are addressing one of his books today, God's Design for the Church.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail

.com.

Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Dr. M. Beyway, this may seem like a very simplistic question, but it is

obvious that many professing Christians and even pastors and denominations don't

seem to understand what the church is and why God established it.

So if you could answer the question, what is the church?

Yeah, in fact, because that's the best

starting point, and as you've rightly observed, you know,

people, a lot of people in Africa have grown up going

to church, they

basically

haven't

given

thought.

It is

very

important,

it

seems

like

a no

-brainer.

If you call yourself or you call the church of which you are a member a Christian church,

it would seem like a no -brainer that Christ is the head of that church,

the founder and head.

But at the same time, you have churches like the Roman Catholic Church and you have aberrant groups and

cults that have a leader that although he may never dare

say he is on the same par with Christ or superior to Christ

or a replacement for Christ, very often these leaders act that way.

And I dare to say, I believe that one of the greatest heresies and

blasphemies of the Church of Rome is that they believe that their Pope

is a vicar of Christ, Christ on earth.

But if you could pick up where I left off there.

Yeah, yeah.

Obviously, one of the things that is rampant in

evangelicalism, modern -day evangelicalism, is the

leaders of the church and the members of the church and the churches, the congregations,

forgetting what really is the church's task in the world,

the specific role.

They replace what God has commanded the church to be responsible for with

other things.

The church really has become in many places and instances

a self -improvement center where basically you are there to hear a message, a lecture,

a speech about how to make your life happier and better

in every sphere of your life, whether it be your marriage, whether it be your career, or

whether it just be relationships with friends and even strangers and acquaintances.

And basically, these things become paramount.

They eclipse the gospel, they eclipse discipline, they eclipse anything in a

church's function that would perhaps make people feel uncomfortable or uneasy because

they're being reminded about their sin in biblically faithful churches.

So what do you have to say about the church forgetting about.

Its

main

task

in

the

world?

Yeah,

why?

The

social

gospel,

which

still is very alive and well,.

Unfortunately, amongst us, used to be championed exclusively by those on the

left, where they elevated very good things at times.

They elevated feeding the poor, caring for the needs of the poor, the physical needs of the poor.

Obviously, even in James's epistle, we are commanded to do these things, and other places in

scripture.

But they elevate those things so far above the

gospel that they eclipse the gospel and even make the gospel secondary, tertiary,

or not even essential at all.

There are even churches that provide all kinds of services

to the community, and they might even forbid their laborers from

proselytizing and being pushy with the gospel because they don't want to offend anyone.

So they are really, they have become nothing more than a place where one might find

food, clothing, they might be given assistance on housing and

finances.

And of course, those are important things.

I'm not here to lessen the need for those things

in the functioning of true Christians.

But today, you have, and for quite some time now, and it began, I

think, in the late 20th century, or perhaps didn't begin

then, but became more and more prevalent.

Even amongst conservatives, there is a different version of the social gospel, where very

important things, I'm not trying to lessen their severity or importance, they're extremely important.

Like protesting the murder of unborn children, protesting

the abomination of men marrying men and women marrying

women, as if that is even a possibility, really.

Or men becoming women and women becoming men, which we know is also an

impossible task.

But with some conservative or right -leaning churches, that almost has

become the gospel to oppose those things.

And they actually embrace as brethren those who do not even believe in the gospel.

As much as I may love Glenn Beck, for instance, I love hearing Glenn Beck very often

on TV and radio.

I agree with him so much.

But I know Christians who believe that he is a brother in Christ.

He's a Mormon.

So we have to be very careful when we are doing right things, and even things we're commanded to do, that

these things.

Must never even come

close

to

eclipsing

the

gospel.

We have to

go to

our

midway

break

right

now.

Please be patient with us, because it is a little longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio,

90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of them to have a longer break

in the middle of the show so they can air their own public service announcements and other local things that

geographically localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida.

And therefore, while they do that, while they air their local announcements, we air our globally heard commercials.

Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the information as you can, provided by as many of our advertisers as you can, so that

you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers to keep them happy so that they keep

sponsoring the show.

And by the way, when you cannot actually purchase products or use services or visit churches

or support parachurch organizations that are featured in our advertisements, please at

the very least respond to these ads and thank the advertiser for sponsoring the show, because the

funds we receive from these advertisements are absolutely crucial.

They are indispensable to the existence of this program.

We cannot exist without the funding that comes from our advertisers, so at the very least, please thank them.

Also use this time to send in questions to Dr. Conrad M. Bayway on the church and God's

design for the church.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Conrad M. Bayway after these messages.

Hello, dear ones.

My name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and

I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday,

September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme, Christ is

supreme over all.

I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody

Balkam, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

As

host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

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call them at 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church.

On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

My

name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform.

Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and many

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Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now.

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmont and Ironworks, New Hampshire, and the NASB

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Church in Coram, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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Go to nasbible .com.

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Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this, I praise you

because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what God has

designed and he has erupted into praise.

In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's

design and once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to

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Such is the beauty of his design.

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May God bless you and give all of us wisdom.

To see greater things in his design.

Thank you.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church.

In Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time,

and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio recently.

Good to be back.

Chris, I always enjoy our time here.

I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more

than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment.

How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air,.

So I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to

6 p .m. Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at

Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ.

Today and always.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who.

Never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

One of my major concerns, and I'm a visitor to America, but one of my major

concerns in your part of the world is you have too many toys.

You're like children who've eaten too many sweets and toffees and

lollipops and so on before having a major proper balanced diet,

and therefore you don't have appetite for deep thinking.

You don't have the hunger to press hard

after

perficiality, and therefore you can go

to church and everybody is dancing and the people that are supposed

to be leading worship simply want you to jive your time away,

and it doesn't bother you.

There's flimsiness there.

The very people that are supposed to be leading in worship are individuals you know are steeped in

wickedness and sin.

Oh

brethren, if we are to have real

reformers today, we need to take time to be holy.

That was the voice of Dr. Conrad Mbewe, who we are interviewing today, and I'm loving

every minute of it, and you just heard an ad prior to that sermon clip

from a G3 conference.

You heard a clip of Dr. Mbewe, and before the

clip you heard an ad for solid -ground -books .com, the

book ministry of Mike Gadosz.

In addition to many of the things that he has brought back into print from centuries ago,

solid -ground -books .com carries some contemporary authors' writings, including

some of the books written by our guest today, or at least contributed to by our guest

today, Conrad Mbewe.

That would include one of Conrad's books, Foundations for the Flock.

We've actually interviewed Conrad on that book, and what a fine

and monumental work that is.

And there is also the book Behold Your God, Rethinking God Biblically,

and Conrad is a contributor to that, and there are others.

So go to solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground -books .com, and

if you type in Mbewe in the search engine, M as in Michael, B as in boy,

E -W -E, you will have everything that Conrad

wrote or contributed to that solid -ground -books .com carries.

Remember, we absolutely depend upon solid -ground -books .com to exist, so please try to

patronize them frequently, and you're not only going to be doing them a favor by purchasing books from them, and you're

not only going to be doing us a favor by keeping an advertiser happy, you're going to be doing

yourself and anyone for whom you purchase gifts from solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor, because they

carry and publish nothing but the finest in Christian literature.

And I know, Dr. Mbewe, that Mike Gaydosh, the founder of solid -ground -Christian books, is very near and

dear to your heart, because he was the very pastor that invited you to preach at your very first

speaking engagement in the United States in 1996.

Yes, I am.

Remember, folks, solid -ground -books .com.

Always tell them that you heard about them from Chris Orens and an Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Before I return to Dr. Mbewe for the remainder of our discussion on God's

design for the church, I just have a couple of quick announcements, very important ones.

Please continue to pray for Voti Baucom.

Voti Baucom, who is a colleague of Dr. Mbewe's at African Christian University,

a very important, vital colleague of Dr. Mbewe's there.

As I said in the earlier part of the program, and as you may have heard elsewhere, Voti Baucom has had

quadruple bypass surgery.

He is recovering, but he is not out of the woods.

So please pray for his quick and full recovery and that we see him on the roster

there September 30th through October 2nd at the G3 Conference, where I will be

manning my exhibitors booth.

And remember, for all the details that you need to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com.

But also, primarily pray for Voti's family, that they don't lose this precious

and dearly beloved father and husband.

And pray that he has many, many more years on this earth to bless them and to enjoy

their fellowship, and also to continue to bless the body of Christ with his gifts.

So continue to pray for Voti Baucom.

Also, folks, if you do not want Iron Trump and Zion Radio to disappear from the airwaves, please

go to irontrumpandzionradio .com, click support, then click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer snail mail, writing out a check and mailing it through the postal service, if you prefer that,

well, a physical address will appear on your screen where you can mail checks made payable to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, so

you have that option as well.

That's irontrumpandzionradio .com and click support.

Also, if you want to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe,

we would love to help you launch an ad campaign, because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And lastly, if you are not a member of a Bible -believing church, a biblically faithful,

theologically sound church, I have lists, extensive lists, of churches all over the globe,

including Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

So no matter where you live, I am very likely going to be able to help you find a church

within driving distance from where you live.

I have helped many people in our audience and all places around the world find churches, sometimes within a few minutes of

their homes, that they didn't even know existed, or they didn't know that the churches that they passed by every day were

theologically sound.

So I may be able to help you.

Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr. Conrad Mbewe, who is

a pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and founding chancellor at African Christian

University.

We are discussing his book, God's Design for the Church, and we are discussing and promoting

the G3 conference where he is speaking this fall.

The email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Now, one very important thing for the maintenance and preservation of a biblically sound and

healthy church is to make sure, as much as we can,

being finite and fallible and sinful human beings, as much as we can,

we are to preserve the membership of the church

to admit only those that we are convinced are truly

regenerate and are in a right standing with God.

They are walking right.

They're not walking perfectly because no one would be eligible for church membership if that was a

requirement, but we have to make sure that people are

truly saved, and that is another problem in the church today, is it not, Dr. Mbewe, where you

have churches so desperate to fill the enormous castles that

they have established to house their so -called churches,

that they do many things, they provide music and entertainment

and all kinds of things that draw the lost in due to the appetites that

they are catering to of lost people, and very often these people

are not only members of the church, they become leaders in the church, and it can be sometimes clear that these people aren't

even really born again.

I mean,.

Isn't

this so

important?

I

have

a

listener

who is

asking

something

about

this

same area.

Of church life.

We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, I am in full

agreement with confessional reform theology and those churches

that are very strong in adhering to a historically and biblically

faithful confession like the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith

or the Westminster Confession or the Three Forms of Unity or the 39 Articles of

Religion, but I think sometimes that reform churches are too

strict in insisting that a candidate for membership agree with everything in

the confession before they can become officially welcomed as a member.

Obviously, there are certain things in every solid confession that are needed to

be believed, even for one's salvation, but at the same time, I think that

churches, some can make the mistake of not giving the sanctification

process a chance where the person grows in their understanding to

finally come to embrace most, if not all, of what is contained in the confession, and when they

deny membership to people who are new to reform theology, they are really

prohibiting them from obeying God and becoming a member of a church.

What say you about this?

Yeah, well,

Amen.

In

fact, my

own

circumstance

reflects

what

both

of

you

said.

When

I came

to.

Christ out of Roman Catholicism, I was interviewed

before my baptism by the Elders, the church where Mike

Gadosh was once a pastor, the first church, which was in Amityville, Long Island,

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, which does not exist anymore.

It merged with First Baptist Church of Merrick and became Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island, where you

preached, Conrad.

But when I had my interview, I said to them, guys, I love you.

I trust you as my leaders.

I really want to be a member of this church, but I don't think I'm ever going to believe in this Calvinism stuff.

And they said, as long as you are willing to be taught and you do not seek to undermine what is

the official position of this church by tearing down sermons that you hear in the ears

of others after services or by starting a theological rebellion in the

church, we are more than happy to welcome you into membership from what we have seen,

as long as you are willing to be taught and do not undermine what we believe.

And that's the way it was.

And within months, I came to not only embrace those teachings, but love them madly.

So thank you for the excellent question.

By the way, John in Bangor, Maine, by virtue of your question today, you have won a

free copy of God's Design for the Church, a guide for African pastors and ministry leaders.

Thanks to our friends at Crossway who have donated a limited number of these books.

And also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

who will be shipping out that book to you free of charge.

Let's see here.

We have Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, who is a very faithful listener and

very generous supporter financially of this program.

He says, Greetings brothers, our church has a ministry and helps support several churches in Zimbabwe.

Is this book only being published in English?

Is there a way to purchase several of these from a source in Africa?

Because we found it easier to get books into Zimbabwe from there than shipping from

the USA.

Now, do

you

speak

or

is

there

somebody

for

Grady

to speak

with

at

Crossway?

For

instance, my

contact.

Is Lauren, who has for years been

my contact.

Her name used to be Lauren Harvey.

Now it's Lauren Sesanto, and I may be mispronouncing that.

But is there somebody specifically at crossway .org, which is the website, by the way, Grady,

where he should contact,.

Or

who he should

contact?

Okay,

Grady, that's crossway .org and ask for

Bill Walsh.

And by the way, you have one as well, a free copy of God's Design for

the Church, a guide for African pastors and ministry leaders.

So please make sure we have your full mailing address in Asheboro, North Carolina, so that we can have

cvbbs .com ship that book out to you.

We have Mike from Monroe, New York.

I believe that all ministerial training should be directly affiliated with the Church of God, the

ground and pillar of the truth, organized in the precise manner we see in

the New Testament.

Is African Christian University primarily concerned with training men qualified for the pastoral

office, or is it simply an educational institution open to all who can pay

tuition?

For example, anyone who can afford it can attend just about any so -called Christian Bible college,

regardless of their beliefs or even whether or not they have a credible profession of faith.

I would appreciate our brother's opinion on this, particularly as it relates to African Christian.

University.

Well,

it's

a

liberal

arts

college

to begin

with,

right?

Well,

thank

you, Mike,.

And you've also won a free copy of the book we are addressing, God's Design for the Church, so make sure we have

your full mailing address there in Monroe, New York.

We have an anonymous listener who says, I have concerns

about churches that quickly elevate to positions of leadership,

elders, pastors, etc.

Those within the church that it appears that their promotion or elevation or appointment

to positions of authority is based only on their secular careers and

businesses, perhaps, that they own.

They are viewed as being successful in business and industry, and therefore they will be successful

in the church.

Now, I obviously believe that a man would likely not be qualified

for a position of an elder if he had a business that had a notorious reputation

for being run in a shoddy manner or in a libelous

or false way, but at the same time, I think that a person's Christian character

and obedience should be elevated far above any business experience they have

when they are being considered for such a.

Position.

What is your

opinion?

Well,

thank

you,

Anonymous,

and

you have also won a free copy,.

Thanks for the generosity of Crossway, a free copy of God's Design for the Church.

If you email me your full name and mailing address, obviously I will not divulge that information on the air, since you've requested

to remain anonymous, but give me that information so that CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service, can ship that book out to you.

That actually, obviously, makes another thought pop

in my head, where the Scriptures are clearly

teaching that we have to be very careful not to demonstrate

preferential treatment in any way to people on the basis of their wealth and how much they

give to the Church.

You know, preferring, treating them with preferential treatment over a poor person in the Church.

Well, actually, it was a comment,.

But

I

wanted

your

response.

An elder could even be a poor person.

He may have even been a person.

That, through reasons not of his own fault, is unemployed, although,

obviously, a person who is a lazy person and purposely not pursuing

employment is not a qualified person for leadership.

Now, I'm speaking here of those churches that have unsalaried elders.

Most churches have a salaried pastor or two, or more, but they have elders that

are bivocational and so on, and even an unemployed man should

not lose his eldership as long as he didn't get fired for.

Some sinful

reason.

When we

come back, I'm going to have you answer a question that.

Is very controversial in the Church.

Even amongst Reformed churches, it's controversial.

What should take place at a worship service?

Because there are those that adhere to what is called the regulative principle of worship,

and there are those who prefer the normative principle of worship.

They think that that's more biblical because of the silence on certain things in Scripture.

They believe the silence, the normative principle advocates believe the silence gives more liberty, whereas the

regulative principle advocates believe silence in the Bible is an area that would give more

restriction or prohibition from what takes place in a worship service.

But if you could, when we come back from our final break, which will be a more brief than the others, we'll have you

let our listeners know what you think should take place in a worship service.

And if anybody has any questions, now would be the time to send them before we run out of time to chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Hi, I'm Phil

Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You,.

The media ministry of John MacArthur.

I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the G3

conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd.

The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all.

My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends, including Votie Balcom, Justin

Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and James White.

More than 20 other speakers will be joining us and the lineup this year includes my pastor, John MacArthur.

For details, visit g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3

2021.

This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ.

Today and always.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of

the.

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or.

Switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at the Toronto Baptist Seminary, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Jeff Downs of Knox.

Reformed Presbyterian Church in Mechanicsville, Virginia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Mark Rimaldi of Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York,.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Scott Pasolo of the Master's Church of Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and

the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Kevin Venio of the Bible Church of Port Washington, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church in St. Augustine, Florida, and the NASB

is my Bible of.

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Here's a great way for your church to help keep.

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Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225.

Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

Our.

Church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one connects their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and

together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599

-9402 or visit Lindbrookbaptist .org.

That's Lindbrookbaptist .org.

We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family, Bhanu Gadi, owner of three New York pharmacies,

Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in

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Please contact Dr. Gadi so he and his expert staff can give you proper guidance amid all the

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Don't forget to ask about their discount generic drug program.

To come away from the world and learn what it means to be alone with

God until the truths of God are burnt into the depth

of our beings.

And when we get out there, our jealousy

for the glory of God will turn us into

unstoppable courageous reformers.

That was Conrad M. Bayway again.

From the G3 conference not long ago.

And Conrad, there is, as I said before the break, even

amongst reform believers, a discrepancy or a disagreement, a tension between

those that believe in the regulative principle that the New Testament is a

blueprint basically for everything that must occur or can occur

in a worship service.

And if it's not in the New Testament specifically, it doesn't belong in a worship

service.

Whereas those who prefer the normative principle believes that the scriptures

themselves offer us more liberty and freedom into what we

allow into a worship service.

They obviously wouldn't believe everything is acceptable, that certain things violate the Bible, but

they just believe that the Bible's silence provides more freedom

in certain areas.

What is your opinion on that?

Very

quickly,

we

have a

Christian

in

western

Suffolk

County,

Long

Island,

who says,.

Is it proper for a church to raise funds by having a carnival or other things

where the money is largely being raised from the secular society around us?

I would say no.

Well, you've

got a

free copy if you give

us your full mailing address.

Thanks to.

Crossways Generosity and CVBBS .com.

We'll be shipping it out to you.

I want to thank you so much, Conrad, for being on the program today.

You are utterly superb as you always are.

I look forward to having you back.

If you could hold on the line, I want to say a proper goodbye to you off the air.

I want to repeat your website for your church, kabwatabaptistchurch .com,

k -a -b -w -a -t -a -baptistchurch .com.

An African Christian university can be found at acu -usa .com, acu

-usa .com.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner.