September 11, 2019 Show with Roger Salter on “The Prince of This World: The Failed Usurper”

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet

Earth listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 11th day of September 2019, and certainly a date that shall remain in infamy, as Franklin Delano Roosevelt once said about an entirely different date, the date that Pearl Harbor was invaded by the

Japanese, but this date, September 11th, even being more horrific as far as the number of people being killed on American soil by a foreign enemy, the largest number of people killed at one time by a foreign enemy in our history, and we ask you to pray today for the survivors of that horrific event and for the remaining family of the deceased and for this country, that we can, by the grace and mercy of God, in some way prevent this from ever happening again, especially on such grand and terrifying a scale.

Today we are not discussing that, but we are discussing someone who is, or should

I say, was involved in the September 11th attack upon the United States.

I'm speaking about Satan. We are discussing the prince of this world, the failed usurper, and to discuss this is a returning guest.

He hasn't been on this program for a long time. He hasn't, in fact, been on the program since the old

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio broadcast, which broadcasted off of Long Island, New York or out of Long Island, New York on WNYG and WGBB radio in West Babylon, Long Island.

I'm speaking of my dear friend, Reverend Roger Salter, Rector of St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, and it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back after such a long absence,

Pastor Roger Salter. Thank you very much, Chris. It's grand to speak with you and kind of me to invite you, to invite me,

I should say, onto the program. Oh, it's my thrill to have you back, and I remember

I had made a number of attempts in our schedules for quite a while were not matching, but in God's providence,

I'm so delighted that they matched for today's interview. And before we even go into your own personal testimony of salvation, you're not a first time guest, but it's been so long that you've been on the program,

I figured I'd have you give your personal testimony as we typically do with first time guests on Iron Troupe and Zion Radio, and it's been so long,

I can't even remember if you did that the last time you were on. But before we do that, why don't you tell our listeners about St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. Well, St. Matthew's Anglican Church is currently an independent congregation.

We came over to a church from England. I was a rector on the Isle of Wight, that little island to the south of the mainland of Britain, and we didn't quite fully know what we were coming to, but it was a church in the

Anglican continuum, and it's been through one or two affiliations, and we are still looking for an affiliation that we feel would make us feel at home within it, but we are very much traditional in the sense that we adhere strongly to scripture as the word of God, and our liturgy is not pure Cranmerian, but it is based on the

Book of Common Prayer 1662, so in that sense we are very counter -cultural, but we very much appreciate the historic

Anglican heritage, and that's what we adhere to, not slavishly, and not in any antiquarian fashion, but because we feel that's the nearest form of Anglicanism to scripture, and its ideals for faith and worship and practice.

And when you say that you are independent, would you say the primary reasons you are independent involve the liberalism and, dare say

I, apostasy in the Episcopal church and Anglican church globally?

I'm not saying that all Episcopalian congregations or Anglican congregations are apostate, but the apostasy is rampant.

The denial of the inerrancy of scripture, the denial of the pillars of the faith of scripture, even on many occasions the deity of Christ and the

Trinity and the bodily resurrection of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone, and the acceptance of abhorrent and damnable wickedness such as homosexuality and the murder of unborn children, and I could go on and on with that.

And also, on the other end of the spectrum, the Oxford movement, the

Romish wing, if you will, of the Anglican communion that sometimes is barely distinguishable from Roman Catholicism, with the exception of a view of an infallible bishop in Rome, the papacy.

All of those things feature in our thinking, Chris, and we are most concerned that whatever affiliation we happen to enter, that it is compliant with that notion of scripture as the word of God, that we're not to deviate from it or to in any way adapt it, but to adhere to it strictly as God's revelation that can be absolutely trusted.

We want a worthy form of worship that we feel is reverent.

Nonetheless, because the prayer book, certainly in the form in which we have it, is 90 % scripture, it means that we can worship with earnestness and with joy and with proper decorum.

It's not stuffy, it's not in any way old -fashioned, if that's the way people want to think of the 1662 liturgy.

It is both joyful and reverent worship, and as one of the old Puritans said, and I've got to try and think back which one it was, that we are to worship

God only in the terms and in the words that he has revealed about himself. So that's where we are,

I think, as a congregation. That's our aspiration, to worship in accord with scripture, lovingly, adoringly, accurately, and to worship

God in ways that reflect who he is, so that we are edified as well as admiring of the

God that we do seek to serve. Amen. And knowing you, I know that you seek to emphasize the

Protestant face of Anglicanism, as actually

Paul Zoll once titled a book, that very same phrase, the

Protestant face of Anglicanism. Yes. You are a strong adherence of the 39

Articles of Religion, which you would believe to be a summary of biblical teaching.

This is not some novel creation of Thomas Cramner that came out of his imagination.

This is a summary of biblical belief. In fact, I share the vast majority of belief in those articles, or should

I say, in the vast majority of those articles. And as I try to humorously jab my

Anglican friends, I even can say I agree with the article on baptism, where it says that we should not forbid children to be baptized, because as a

Reformed Baptist, if a child repents and believes, I would not want to refuse him baptism either. Right, right.

The article doesn't actually say infants, even though I know that the Anglican Church is always baptizing. So that's just a little friendly rib there.

Yes, that's true. Well, I can say with a great deal of humor, we share our facility now with a

Baptist congregation, and the only item in the church that they don't use of ours is the font.

I'm sorry, can you repeat that? You got a little bit fuzzy there. Well, we share our congregation now with the

Baptist congregation, our church facility, I mean, and they are Reformed Baptists.

And so our theology is exactly matching except for that one particular item you mentioned.

And the only facility that the Baptists do not ask for in our church is the font.

Nobody could fit in it. The pulpit, the communion table, but not the font.

And I assume you do have some church polity differences as well, being an Anglican.

That's true, but a lot of those are actually passe for the time being that we're independent, because the one thing

I feel, and I'm probably going to be slightly mischievous here, the one thing

I believe Anglicanism could jettison without much harm is the

Episcopate. But that's me sticking my neck out a little.

By the way, it just occurred to me that I should tell our listeners that your last name is not spelt the same way that the collection of Psalms for singing is spelt in some of your

Reformed churches, like the one that I am a member of, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle.

We have Psalters in our pews, but your name is spelt without the P. Without the

P. It's an Anglicization of a German name. Part of my family were

German, part were Scottish, but I always tell people not to add the P to our name because we're not the

Scottish Psalters anymore. And I think

I have a feeling you might agree, though, that it'd be a wonderful thing if more churches did have Psalters in their pews, in addition to the hymnals.

Yes, and certainly our prayer book contains the Psalter, and if we were to abide by the lectionary strictly, we would use the whole of the

Psalter each month. And if anybody wants more information on St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, and technically it's in Vestavia Hills, correct?

That's right, absolutely. You can go to stmaanglican .weebly .com.

That's stmaanglican .weebly .com.

And you can also go to Roger's personal website, which is rogersalter .com.

And again, the last name is S -A -L -T -E -R, rogersalter .com.

And do you have any other websites or anything like that that you care to announce before we continue?

Well, we do make contributions, financial and in print, to Virtue Online.

Yes, I've had David on the program. In fact, he emailed me, very excited that you were on the show today.

Oh, that's kind of him. Yes, I remember tuning in and hearing David, and we support his website very eagerly, because I believe it attracts a lot of attention and corrects a lot of notions about contemporary

Anglicanism. Yes, in fact, we're going to be discussing an article that came out of the

Virtue Online website that you wrote for them, The Prince of This World, The Failed Usurper.

But before we go into that, let me just quickly announce the

Virtue Online website. It's virtueonline .org, virtueonline .org.

And hopefully we'll remember to announce that later on. But as I said earlier,

I'd love for you to give a summary of your own salvation testimony. And I know that you were born and raised in Australia, in Tasmania.

And tell us how not only you made the journey from there eventually to the

United States, but much more importantly, infinitely more importantly, how you made the journey from being lost to being a child of God, and from being a child of God more specifically, to an

Anglican rector. Right, right, Chris.

My memory has just clicked into action, actually, about another contact point for us.

We have living oracles, which can be found on one place.

So that's a very regular contribution from ourselves on a weekly basis.

Yes, and I think it's oneplace .com or something? That's right, yes.

It just occurred to me a little late. But yes, going back to the biographical details, earlier on you mentioned planet

Earth. And I, like a few other people, just managed inclusion on planet

Earth because I come from Tasmania, which is just a few miles north of the South Pole.

It's a little island off the mainland of Australia, often in the past totally forgotten by everyone else, which is one reason why

I had this terrible sense of isolation, being born on that island, and knowing that just below us were about a million penguins.

But anyway... Well, I don't think I would be disappointed by that aspect of it. I think penguins are kind of adorable creatures, but...

I forget, are there polar bears in the South Pole, or are they in the North Pole? No, they're in the

North. Oh, okay, all right. But if you could... But as a child,

Chris, I was exposed to the Gospel from a very early age, particularly through my grandfather, who had been a missionary in what happened to be the

New Hebrides at the time, before the First World War, now Vanuatu. He went as a missionary with John Payton's son,

Frank Payton, to that island and spent a great deal of time on the island of Pentecost as the only

European man there. And then, of course, went into war service for the

First World War and had a great influence on me as a young person.

So I actually commenced my Christian pilgrimage at a tent mission in the south of Tasmania and was baptized in a creek that ran by a slaughterhouse and out onto the bay that was at the end of the town jetty where I lived.

And so I received a New Testament, testifying to my profession of faith at the age of 10.

And from then on, with lots of ups and downs, I pursued the knowledge of God as, on many occasions, a very unsteady

Christian, influenced by a number of things. But I think one can say, because it doesn't bring any credit to oneself, that God has managed to keep one in hand to make sure that one never actually strayed from the faith or repudiated it, but pressed on at various occasions in life to a clearer understanding of the gospel.

At the age of 19, I presented myself at the front of a congregation in response to an invitation from an

Indonesian Baptist pastor, Ice Pormes, who was preaching in the north of Tasmania, and invited people who wanted to commit themselves to the service of God to come forward.

And so I did that, and then he very helpfully wrote to me and said, well, one needs a lot of preparation and a lot of maturity in to even consider ministerial service for the cause of the gospel, but that I would receive encouragement in doing that.

And so in various ways, I did receive that encouragement, and I always wanted to enter preparation for ministry.

In due course, I left Australia and thought perhaps I might gain an education as a part -time student in Scotland, and then

I married a lady from Dublin, Maureen, who was an Anglican, and I attended

Anglican churches with her in London, particularly St. Helens and Bishopsgate, and we met the lovely

Alec Matea, who was preaching in England at the time, and he suggested I go to Trinity College at Bristol.

So that's the course our life took, and I was there for four years from 1975 to 79, and thereafter served in the

Diocese of Bristol, and then Portsmouth, latterly in Portsmouth on the

Isle of Wight, the little island I mentioned a while ago, and I had a great deal of concern about the direction of the

Church of England. What prompted this concern in particular was around about the early 90s, the loss of a tremendous amount of money that had been invested in America on loan, and we were all invited as clergy and members of the

Church nationwide to attend all these meetings as to how we deal with this terrible deficit, but I don't remember anyone starting a meeting with prayer, and I don't recall, although I don't want to misrepresent anyone, but I don't recall any bishop inviting people to the cathedral for intercession over our great predicament.

So that was something that concerned me, and also the beginning of the prevalence of homosexual activity being permitted within the communion, initially with lay people, and I had to deal with that, and also now clergy.

So when I saw an advertisement in a church paper for the rectorship of St.

Matthew's, I responded, and after some months was invited to America, and within a week we were, well, there was a little gap, but I was invited to come on August the 4th, 1994, and after that we agreed that we would transfer, and that's where we are now, and we've been here 25 years.

Praise God, and I hope to join you one day for worship there, and it would be lovely,

Chris, and I just want to tell our listeners what a joy it was to finally meet Roger and his precious bride

Maureen not long ago when I was on my way down to Franklin, Tennessee for a

Bible conference, and I shot over Tennessee to Birmingham, Alabama, where I was being picked up by someone else attending the conference, and I spent the night in Birmingham, and before going to rest in my hotel,

I had the wonderful privilege of having dinner at a wonderful Indian restaurant, something that I share the love of Indian food with Roger and his wife

Maureen, and we had just a wonderful time of uproarious laughter and just a phenomenal time of fellowship, and you have certainly been blessed with a jewel of a wife.

She is just not only fascinating and very wise and brilliant, but she's hilariously funny, and she's down to earth, and she's humble.

I mean, she's just got so many wonderful qualities, and I just really enjoyed that time of fellowship that will always be embedded in my memory for the rest of my life,

I believe. Well, she's absolutely lovely. You're right, Chris, and I appreciate her immensely, and thank

God that he brought us together when we met in London. Amen. In a week of my arrival in London, I met her.

Yeah, wow. Well, can you, first of all, let us hear something about what led you to write this article on the prince of this world, the failed usurper.

What was the initiating cause of the writing of this article?

Well, I try to write a substantial article at least once a week and also a meditation for each

Sunday, and I think I became more than ever acutely aware of the presence of evil in life and corruption at every level of life in every human enterprise.

I mean, there isn't anything human now that you can't trace, not just hints of sin, but a powerful influence of evil operative within the world, and of course, you know, as a

Christian and as a minister, I've always believed in the reality of Satan and of the harmfulness and injuriousness of sin and the fact that it not only condemns us, but it makes life on this earth so miserable for so many people, and it just became something that was much more alive in my consciousness, and I thought, why didn't

I see the extent of sin and the depth of sin so comprehensively and acutely before, and so I began to look at scripture more carefully in terms of the opposition of the kingdom of light and the kingdom of darkness and Christ as the prince of the cosmos, not in any way suggesting vulnerability in Christ whatsoever, but that he was in conflict with this kingdom of darkness.

He had conquered it. It has no power compared to him, and certainly only any power that exercises by divine permission, but I suddenly saw the influence of Satan and the demonic in even fairly normal life.

You know, we're told that there are authorities and powers that are heavenly in the sense of being above human ability and human comprehension, and I began to recognize that these evil forces are extremely active, and certainly the world scarcely is aware of it, but as Jesus says, he's the prince of this world, and if you're not regenerate, you're under the power of the evil one.

I know God restrains and moderates the effect of evil in every instant of human experience, but I began to see why we had to acknowledge the power and the victory and the goodness of Christ in redeeming us from this terrible mire of sin and suffering and misery that we're all caught up in, and so I thought,

I'll just see what the consequences of Christ's coming happen to be, and I was very struck in reading during the day, you know, from John's letter, that I'm trying to look for the exact quotation, but I can't find it at the moment.

Yes, here it is. 1 John 3, 8, I meditated upon this for some time, that the reason the

Son of God appeared was to destroy the work of the devil, and so he came as a champion, as a strong man, as the victor who was going to deal with absolute finality with this problem that encompasses all our lives, and would do so for all eternity if Christ did not intervene.

Now, I think that perhaps some clarification should be made, because there are

Christians, I believe, that are in serious error, because they wrongly interpret what it means for Satan to be the prince of this world.

There are Christians, perhaps most amongst the dispensationalists, and I don't mean to say this as a dig or a pejorative term, when

I say dispensationalists, some of my heroes of the faith are dispensationalists, like John MacArthur, but I think that predominantly among the dispensationalists you have those that would not even, and this is an extreme case, because John MacArthur is certainly not in this camp, and many are not, but there are some who say that Jesus is not even

Lord right now. They would say that he is going to be Lord when he is ruling in the millennium, and things like that.

I'm not saying that they would deny his deity, but they would say that he doesn't have the role or title of Lord, and people think that by Satan being described as the prince of this world, they wrongly think that he is actually in control, that God is somehow just sitting back and waiting to take over, but this is not the case, is it?

It certainly isn't, Chris, and that's a new thought to me. I had not picked that up either in Tasmania or Britain.

I don't mean it's a tongue -in -cheek term that Jesus uses, but it's a subsidiary lordship by divine permission in the hearts of those who have not yet been drawn to Christ, and I have outlined here from the article,

Prince of this World, that quote from Thomas Aquinas, that the devil is called the god of this world, not because he created it, but because worldlings serve him.

So he's the god of the ungodly, in the sense that he directs their minds and dominates their lives to an extent perhaps that they're not even aware, because he blinds them.

But his kingdom is far inferior to the grandeur and beauty and strength of the kingdom of God, but it is a fact that we have to deal with until the end of human history that Satan does exert this influence within mankind.

It's an evil, miserable influence, and something from which God has delivered us with finality on the cross, but we're still dealing with a skirmish until the end of time.

And of course Satan is particularly vicious because he knows what his doom happens to be, and in his envy towards the

Lord Jesus, he is trying to gain as many as he can into that same doom that he will have to endure.

It's a term that I think we only use with divine permission. The fact that Christ uses it means that he knew that he was being hunted down and was facing murder that was perpetrated by the servants of Satan.

So it's a term that really describes the predicament of man, alienated from God and not born from above.

Well we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us with a question for Pastor Roger Salter of St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Perhaps you have been terrified by some kind of personal experience that you deem to be a demonic experience, and you care not to draw attention to your identity, or perhaps you have a theological difference from your own pastor or congregation, or perhaps you're a pastor and you have a difference on this subject with your own denomination or congregation.

We would understand that you would want to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general theological and doctrinal and biblical question on the prince of this world, the failed usurper

Satan, give us please at least your city and state, your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Don't go away, God willing we'll be right back after these messages with more of Pastor Roger Salter and his discussion on the prince of this world, the failed usurper.

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Chris Arnzen, and if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours, with a little less than 90 minutes to go, is

Pastor Roger Salter, who is Rector at St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, and today we are discussing the theme of an article he wrote for virtueonline .org,

The Prince of This World, The Failed Usurper. If you have a question, our email address, excuse me, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com,

chrisarnzen at gmail .com, that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com,

and please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And Pastor Roger, before I take any listener questions,

I was curious if you could please explain why is Satan the failed usurper?

Well, we've already sort of compared the power of Satan with the infinite power of God, so he's always inferior, and compared with God, he is absolutely nothing.

But he has been given permission to exercise a negative influence over our race, and I think it has opened up the opportunity for God to demonstrate the omnipotence that is his with the compassion that he shows.

That in rescuing us, we really come to the very heart of God, and that we get an insight into the nature of God best through looking at the atonement, the work of the

Lord Jesus Christ. And I think we see the glory, and the majesty, and the strength of God demonstrated in our rescue from our breach with him, and from the influence of Satan, the rebel archangel.

So there is no doubt that the prince of the world is swollen with ambition.

He is envious of the Lord Jesus. He is in competition with the Lord Jesus. He wants the glory that is accorded to him, and so he made this attempt to usurp the throne of God, to gain control over God's creation,

God's domain. It was a futile attempt, and from the outset he would know that he would be defeated, but now we know through all that the cross means to us, and that takes a lot of exploration.

It's not just a watchword that we say, oh this is by the cross of Christ. We look into the whole preparation there was for the coming of the

Messiah, the agreement within the Trinity, the coming, the advent of the

Savior, his incarnation, his dwelling among us, and as it were, participating in the mire and predicament that we encounter, yet without any tainting of sin himself, and then through his death and resurrection, demolishing the kingdom of evil and rebellion.

And this, I say, is the most intriguing subject with so many aspects to it, but there is no doubt that we as believers are here to exalt and commend the

Lord Jesus Christ, who has wrought our ransom, our rescue, our redemption, and there are an infinite number of themes that we can pursue as we think of what

God has done to rectify this, first of all the great rebellion in heaven, and the great fault within the

Garden of Eden, all of that has been reversed by the ingenuity of God, and it is so amazing to see that perhaps his power is best demonstrated in putting things right, rather than maintaining what is right, and we would have no clues to what the implications of justice and mercy were without, and I'm not in any way explaining the fall or giving a solution to it, but I remember the ancient liturgy saying, oh happy fault of the fall of mankind, because it gives

God to demonstrate exactly and fully what kind of God he is.

We have a listener in, let's see here, we have a listener in Perry County, Pennsylvania, Arnie, who asks, why specifically in Ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 through 3, is

Satan described as the prince of the power of the air? What was the verse again exactly?

Ephesians chapter 2, 1 verses 3, and you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience, among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind, and specifically,

I am assuming our listener, Arnie, is asking, why is the air brought up, or the power of the air, in the description of Satan as the prince of the power of the air?

Well, you know, we Tasmanians are very odd, Chris, and you get some rather strange elements in your early

Christian discipleship, in terms of teaching and oddities and sometimes very literalistic interpretations of scripture that aren't absolutely necessary, but when

I was young I was told the prince of the power of the air meant that God was having to deal with the bad influence of television.

I think some of the haters of Iron Trip and Zion Radio have referred to me as the prince of the power of the air since I'm on the radio.

Right, right. I don't tend to think of it initially, and I could well be wrong in terms of spatial matters.

I think it's speaking about the superiority of the evil forces in comparison with we earthly beings.

Their capacities are far greater than ours, their influence much stronger.

We are dealing with a genius tribe of rebels that try to influence us and take us captive in their mass rebellion against God.

I don't know about the matter of location. I think it's simply saying that between us and God there is this very terrifying, threatening, powerful force that in a sense, if we think of heaven and earth, in that, you know, the three -decker idea we have of reality, there is intervening between us and God, a very, very powerful force, opposition, enemies that want to prevent us from gaining that reconnection with God.

But it wouldn't worry me if we were to look upward and somehow in that area above us, and within the realm of space, there are these beings that, you know, are highly active in trying to maintain the cosmos as rebel territory to God, to usurp his authority throughout the cosmos, and particularly upon this planet which seems to be a main focus for this conflict between the two kingdoms.

Amen. And we have a very hazy answer. I'm just surprised at the words that come out and the words that don't.

Well thank you Arnie in Perry County, and we have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, how can

Christians take comfort and have peace of mind knowing that Satan is the prince of this world, and how can we communicate to others who are not

Christians that they can have this peace too? Well I think the first thing to recognize, and one of my friends used to say, we mustn't give

Satan free publicity. God is actually absolutely in dominion and sovereignty over all things.

Satan is a pesky sort of temporary outbreak against the rule and government of God, and too much fear of Satan and too much concentration on him, and not on the gospel of Christ and the redemption that is available, is almost a perverse form of worship.

That he is not a power that we are to be afraid of, that is as long as we are under that protection of Christ and Paul's advice at the end of Ephesians about taking on the whole armor of God.

I think to refer to Satan constantly to have a certain kind of obsession with evil and a dread of the force of evil is, as I think, a form of idolatry, a form of perverse worship.

We don't in any way honor or give credit to Satan. He's a defeated foe.

I think there are two approaches to this. There was a very great Dutch reformed theologian in the past century by the name of Cornelius Gerard Burkauer, and I remember when

I, before I left Australia, reading an article in Time magazine about the modern denial of the reality of Satan, and Burkauer being quoted in an article in Time magazine saying that sinful man cannot take a casual view of Satan's power.

It's not a force that can operate without God, but it is a reality we have to take into account and avoid and seek

God's defense against his wiles and craft. But he says this, implied in the statement about, you know, the warning that we must be aware of Satan and resist him even to the shedding of our blood, implied in that statement is the admonition that believers have all too often an inadequate awareness of the adversary or their archenemy who is nearby and crouching at the door.

We are to see this force as one of invasion, of seeking to take a grip on us and manipulate us, but I think ultimately we are to credit

God with absolute power, absolute control, and the compassion and the willingness to deliver us from satanic wiles and demonic intrigue, and to protect us from all harm that any form of evil could cause.

So if we love God and fear God, that is we revere his name, we do not need to fear, be afraid of Satan, but we mustn't leave ourselves vulnerable either to his lunges and his attempts to gain some entrance into our lives and to destroy our peace of mind.

He is a defeated foe, he's far inferior to God, but taken into God's protection we have become impregnable.

The Lord is our rock and our defense against this wily malicious customer who is so influential on earth.

Yes, and isn't it true that it is only we who have been purchased by the precious blood of the

Lamb, those who are truly born again, those who are Christians truly, not in name only, isn't it true that we are the only ones that can face

Satan with confidence and courage and fearlessly, because we are not under his power, we are not going to be slaves to him any longer after we have received a new heart from Christ, and we cannot promise the same peace to the lost around us unless they too bow the knee to Christ and repent.

Am I right? Yes, absolutely. I mean, he's a braggart, he overestimates his power, he likes to magnify his significance and his influence and strength, but it's all a ploy, and there is a sense in which whilst we mustn't expose ourselves to danger through overconfidence and, you know, through stirring up his ire and anger, realize that he is impotent unless God gives him permission to be operative, and if he does have any effect or influence upon the children of God, it is first of all their warning against presumption, it is a reminder of our total dependence upon the

Lord, it is an indication of our weakness before this spiritual power, far greater than any we possess, but nonetheless he's nothing to God.

He's just a pest, but, you know, we mustn't get too cocky when we think of our protection from him, because he's very crafty, and, you know, he's a skillful tactician, and he knows us better than we know ourselves,

I think, psychologically. He knows all human flaws, faults, and tendencies, and he uses this knowledge to bewitch us and fool us, so we can't be presumptuous about the protection we have, but we can be totally confident in it.

Amen. We have to go to our midway break right now. It's the longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires a longer break in the middle of our show so that they can air their own public service announcements and other things that localize

Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, which is a requirement of the FCC. So while we take this elongated break, please use this time wisely.

Write down questions for Roger Salter on Satan, the prince of this world, the failed usurper, and also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

Remember, we cannot exist without the financial support of those who advertise on this program, and those of you who are listening to the pre -recorded version of the show, please don't every day fast -forward through the commercials.

I can understand you doing it perhaps even most of the time, but not every day because we want you to write down the information and patronize these supporters of the show, because I'm telling you we're not going to remain on the air if they do not remain our advertisers.

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and as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Roger Salter after these messages from our sponsor.

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I just have a couple of announcements to make before we return to Roger Salter's interview.

First of all, coming up in December the 19th and 20th, which is a Thursday and Friday, I'm going to be heading to Manhattan, my own old stomping grounds, to the

Foundations Conference, which is a conference sponsored and hosted by Sermon Audio.

Sermonaudio .com. And they always have a phenomenal lineup of speakers. And by the way, this is for men in ministry leadership only, this conference.

They have a very small venue that can seat only less than 200 people. So please, if you want to register for this conference, do so quickly before they run out of room.

But the speakers include Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, Paul Washer, Reverend Jeff Thomas, Reverend Armin Tomasian, Richard Colwell Jr.,

and Andrew Quigley. If you'd like to join me there, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th, go to thefoundationsconference .com.

thefoundationsconference .com. Then in January 2020, I'm packing up my bags again and heading down south, not far, not very far from where my guest resides.

I'm heading down south to the G3 Conference, which is being held, as always, at the

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.

And I hope I make a pit stop in Birmingham, Alabama, to see Roger and Maureen Salter again.

But this conference is something that I urge you to attend, if at all possible.

It is quite an extraordinary conference. And this, unlike the previous conference, is open to everyone, men, women, and children.

It's being held Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th. And this

January, the theme is Worship Matters. The roster of speakers, once again, is absolutely breathtaking.

The roster includes, once again, Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer, just as I mentioned earlier.

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Calvinistic ministry in the Southern Baptist Convention. Acosti Hinn, the nephew of the notorious heretic

Benny Hinn, who, unlike his uncle, has repented of the Word of Faith heresies and is now a

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The list goes on. This is a huge roster, as it always is. And John MacArthur, as you heard me mention earlier in one of the commercials,

John MacArthur is on the lineup as well. If you would like to join me in College Park, Georgia, at the

Georgia International Convention Center, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. And as I keep reminding you, if you have a business, a parachurch organization, a special event, or something that you want to publicize to a very large group of Christians, and the

G3 Conference attracts over 5 ,000 people every year, then register for an exhibitor's booth, just like I will be manning for Iron Trip and Zion Radio at the

G3 Conference. Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com,

and you can register not only for the booth, or not only to attend, I should say, but also for the booth, if that applies to you.

And I would register for the booth quickly, because they're going to run out of booth space a lot faster than they run out of chairs for those in the audience.

So, please, uh, register as quickly as you can at g3conference .com,

g3conference .com, and tell them that you heard about the conference from Chris Arms and on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. And last but not least, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, you love the fact that we have guests and topics that are very often never heard anywhere else other than this program, uh, well, please, go to irontripandzionradio .com,

click support, then click, click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and you could also mail in a check the old -fashioned way, uh, to the address that appears on the screen, uh, when you go to irontripandzionradio .com

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Uh, those two things are commands of God, providing for your church and home, providing for my show is not, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing your church, for your church and home, you have extra money.

You have money lying around that's collecting interest, you have money for frivolous things like, uh, going to the movies, uh, ice cream, candy, whatever it is that you use for recreational purposes.

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We are in urgent need of your donations and advertising dollars right now. We still, uh, have to pay for the live streaming bill, we still have to pay for the rent for the studio, we have to pay for a lot of things that, uh, have not yet been paid, and if we don't get the $500 assumed for the live streaming bill, we're going to be going off the air.

Please help us. I want to thank, personally, right now on the air, uh, Pastor Roger Salter and his precious bride

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And, uh, if you are not a member of a bible -believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

I have lists of biblically -faithful churches all over the globe, so if you want me to help you find a church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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So please send me that email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Roger Salter on Satan, the prince of this world, uh, also, uh, the, uh, the failed usurper, as Roger's article describes him.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and only, only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter.

Before I go to a listener question, Pastor Roger, I wanted to describe for you something that happened to me back in the 1990s,

I believe it was, uh, when my boss, my general manager for WMCA Radio, where I worked for 15 years, he called me and said,

Chris, I've been hearing a lot about this guy Rodney Howard Brown. He is the guy that runs or has spearheaded what is called the

Laughing Revival. Uh, many people believe this is just heretical, if not satanic.

I want to, I want to attend a meeting he is conducting with you so I can hear and see firsthand what this guy is all about.

So I went with my general manager and one thing that was very interesting about Mr.

Brown's conduct at this so -called crusade or whatever he called it, uh, he was actually, even though he is charismatic, he was mocking other charismatics and Pentecostals for being terrified of demons.

He strolled out there on the stage and he said, I'm so tired of hearing pastors praying demons out the room wherever I go to preach.

I don't need people praying demons out the room. I walk into a room and the demons scatter.

You don't need to be praying for demons to flee the room when I'm around. And he was putting this massive crowd of thousands of people at ease when it came to the demonic realm.

And I am convinced that many, if not the majority of people in that room were lost.

This is a dangerous thing, isn't it? To have a, a flippant attitude towards Satan and the demonic realm and to have such arrogance and pride as demonstrated by Rodney Howard Brown, who

I believe is just a disciple of Satan. I don't have any belief that he is a

Christian, a genuine one. Uh, so can you just, uh, you, you had basically touched on that before the break.

Can you respond to what I just said? Yes. I'd almost forgotten about that fellow.

I'd seen on television and his flippancy was astounding. And it's amazing the way

Satan equips people almost with, uh, opposite tactics, uh, you know, flippancy about him and ignoring him is one of his major ways of intruding into life and into influence of, you know, human society.

And, um, I was shocked at seeing that man. He's South African, I believe, isn't he?

Yes, he is. Um, yes. Um, I've seen that tendency in some charismatic groups.

Um, I think there has to be a healthy, not, not a, uh, can't think of the word

I want, Chris, when you're absolutely stuck on something, but, um, not fixated on Satan with fear, but to realize that he is a very dangerous enemy and to be very cautious in speaking about him.

Um, we don't fear him. We don't, we couldn't tremble at him if we were left to our own devices.

But yes, flippancy is another tool, I think, that Satan uses in, as you suggested, in this charismatic sector of ministry.

But even in sometimes what is regarded as orthodox evangelicalism, um, we have to be very careful,

I think, about the use of humor and not to underrate the dangers of flippancy.

And, uh, I have said this a number of times on this show, do you agree with me that although you rightly said that we should never be fixated or preoccupied with Satan in the demonic realm, at the same time,

I think many of us who are reformed ignore Satan in the demonic realm.

We mention him in sermons and in discussion, uh, and in books, but it seems to be just a reference to evil and wickedness and to the depth of depravity of, of sin.

We will mention things that are satanic or mention Satan, but there seems to be almost a fear amongst reformed people to really go a bit more in depth about him,

Satan, and the demonic realm, because they fear to appear sensationalistic, they fear to appear charismatic,

Pentecostal, they perhaps, uh, don't want to diminish man's personal responsibility for his wickedness, those who, those who would pass the buck and blame

Satan as, as did, uh, Eve in the Garden of Eden.

Uh, so, uh, in fact, it was, you know, the snake that God brought into the, the garden that she was blaming.

Uh, but, but, uh, you know, how do we have that balance of not ignoring and being fearful to discuss these things and also avoid being preoccupied with them and have this as a major, uh, source of fascination in our lives?

Absolutely. I mean, it takes the donation of divine wisdom, I think, to deal with this particular matter, because it's easy for Satan and his influence to become an obsession among people.

Uh, they live in this dread, this fear, which I think we see in extreme forms in still very primitive societies or isolated societies, where they live under the dread of evil and, and of the demonic, um, demonic and manifestations of evil.

I think we also have to recognize that there is a personal genius behind it all, and that there does seem to me, and I don't know to what extent, but there is evidence of a strategy, of a program, of an agenda that he follows very artfully and, um, cleverly, craftily.

Um, we can either credit him with too much or, uh, underestimate the influence that he does have.

And, um, I think I, I share that caution in referring to him, because you don't want to subject people to an unnecessary dread of him and, uh, an over -emphasis on what is possible, what he can do.

Um, it's to keep him at arm's length on the one hand, but realize what a danger he is, and how sneaky and cunning he can be, and how he can find his way through weak defenses.

I mean, he has the skill of planting his minions, I think, almost at the very center of Christian activity in the church's life.

If he can get people inside the camp, that's far better than having them, you know, firing arrows from the outside.

And I think we sometimes can be a bit naive as to what he really can accomplish.

But, um, great care and caution has to be taken, I think, in our enunciation of the fact of Satan and what he is.

Um, I don't know, I think each believer has to really rely with great dependence upon God for their particular attitude to Satan and how they regard him.

I know, reading Luther, you get a sense, a real sense of the reality of Satan.

Oh yeah, he claims to have saw him visibly and threw an inkwell at him. Is that myth or is that true?

That is true. Well, we don't know if he actually saw Satan, but the account is true. Well, it's true.

I mean, there was some dust on the table on which he was writing, and he used his finger and said, you know,

I have been baptized as an indication that he came under the protection of God, and he was not going to be deceived by Satan.

And I think he also said that if he saw an apparition of a being claiming to be

Christ, he would reject him too, because the word of God is sufficient to make Christ known without some of these miraculous events that people either desire or want to claim are possible.

Satan is the great deceiver, so much the creator of something when it's a counterfeit.

He is almost the perfect counterfeiter, and I think that we have forces within the church in our time that are regarded as orthodox and safe, that are really quite beguiling and plausible, that they uphold certain

Christian truths with which we all agree, but under that general acceptance they smuggle doctrines into the church that really strike at the very core of the gospel and nullify it if we were to follow them completely.

You know, I'm very happy that you mentioned that Luther would even reject a supernatural appearance of Christ now that we have a completed canon and we don't need to have divine revelation outside of that.

That's right. Because many of my Roman Catholic friends, it has further convinced them that they are in a true church, because they put such high stock in the apparitions of Mary.

And it's interesting, I have a friend who, I won't name him, but he is a friend for many years who shares a lot in common with me in regard to political activity and the social and moral ills of society.

And he's a wonderful guy, I really enjoy his company. But the apparitions of Mary, in his mind, are what signed, sealed, and delivered the authenticity of the

Roman Catholic Church to him. And I said to him that I believe that those apparitions are satanic, that they are false, and his response has always been, how can these apparitions of Mary be from the devil if the apparitions are telling people to listen to her son?

And I said, well, there are many false teachers, even outside of Catholicism, that tell people to follow

Jesus, but they are from the pit of hell themselves. We cannot just trust in something that's telling us to follow

Jesus, am I right? It's very prevalent in our time. There are so many versions of Jesus that are so misleading, and we can really only take the scriptural testimony as true and worthy of acceptance, and as accurate.

And I think the greatest advocacy of the Christian faith, even in terms of apologetics, is the presentation of Jesus.

I think sometimes arguing for the existence of God, and the arguments that people compile for that, and they're very reasonable, are in one sense too vague.

Our most effective apologetics, I think, must be derived from the person of the

Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Word of God, and God incarnate and in the flesh.

And I think that's why in our time we're seeing so many attacks on the reliability of the

New Testament account of Jesus, the narrative of his ministry. We get all sorts of versions, even from different religions, who try to include him within their canon of belief and devotion.

But we must walk very carefully and cautiously, I think, deriving our thoughts purely from the

Word of God. And it always strikes me as wonderful that Peter says in his correspondence, even the

Old Testament was inspired by the Spirit of Christ, which makes a lot of the Old Testament, in a sense, autobiographical.

And Christ is our teacher, Christ is the source of all the light and truth that we have about God, and yet we're being drawn away very subtly by the craft of Satan, who can just about copy anything with almost absolute accuracy.

And by the way, it might be a surprise to many of our listeners, both

Catholic and Protestant alike, that there are quite a significant number of Roman Catholics who believe that the

Medjugorje apparitions in Yugoslavia are Satanic. Those would be typically, or that would be typically the opinion of those in the very conservative wings of Roman Catholicism, perhaps even especially the

Latin Rite group. But they believe that with confidence they denounce, in fact even the bishop in Medjugorje denounces the apparitions there as being false and Satanic.

So it's not just Protestants saying that this is a possibility. Of course these same Catholics would also sadly uphold the

Fatima apparitions, but at least we know that they can conceive of the fact that Satan can masquerade as Mary.

Yes, absolutely. We have a listener who's an old friend of mine, and I haven't heard from him in quite a long time.

Well, actually I did see him when I was visiting down south at a conference, but I haven't heard from him during the radio show in a long time.

And his name is Shane Jackson. I don't usually give the full name of my listeners, but Shane has also been a guest on this program.

And I don't know if he still lives in Birmingham, but he used to live in Birmingham. And perhaps you know him, Roger. I do indeed.

I do indeed. I can testify that Shane is very much a resident of Birmingham, a member of the congregation with which we share our facility.

Yes, well he is, where Todd Wilson is the pastor. Yes, and Shane gave me a wonderful compliment once, because as you know, he has a problem with having no sight.

He has a lot of insight, but not physical sight. And I always say to him, it's so lovely to see you,

Shane. And he says, and it's so lovely not to see you. Oh, that's hilarious.

Shane, and a side note. One time, this is back in the 90s, or maybe it was in the early 2000s after my show was on the air.

But I was having computer problems, and I was on the phone for two hours with an IBM technician who could not help me and my problem.

Mike Gadosh told me, you got to have Shane help you, help coach you through this over the phone.

I said, really? He's blind, isn't he? Yeah, but he's a genius when it comes to computers. When less than five minutes, just talking to Shane over the phone, he had my computer working.

But Shane used to send in questions quite regularly to Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio, and I hope he resumes that.

Now that he has figured out how to use the new website to listen to the show, and I'm going to have to talk to my webmaster about this, about the website becoming more blind -friendly, because apparently for the blind, it's not that easy to listen.

So I got to make sure that that's rectified. But Shane's question is, it's not on the subject, because he just tuned in late.

But he says, could you ask Roger, what is the status of the Reformed Anglican Communion today?

And if there is such a thing, this is something I've always wanted to hear Roger discuss.

And we have discussed this with Roger and other people on this show. And perhaps we'll have Roger discuss this in greater length again on the show.

But if you could, just satisfy Shane's curiosity in an abbreviated form. Well, the encouraging thing is,

Chris and Shane, is that there are quite a number of Reformed Anglicans in various connections and affiliations.

The main thing is to be able to find some way of bringing them together, not necessarily into something denominational or out of their current affiliations, but something where we're aware of each other and the strength and force of our conviction within ongoing

Anglicanism, which is going through a time of great crisis. But that there are, you know, when

Elijah was shown that those whom the Lord had preserved in his time, I think the number is considerably larger than we might suppose.

And there are some people who are very able in the advocacy and defense of Reformed Anglicanism.

And here I'm going to sound a little, I don't mean to sound exclusive,

I can't find the word I want at the moment. But to my mind, that is the authentic, historic, constitutional position of Anglicanism.

I realize we have to deal with our current situation, where there is a number of churchmanships and spiritualities and theological positions, and we want to deal with all of these with charity and with understanding and respect.

That's Anglicanism at the present. There are people of true faith in other expressions of Anglicanism.

But to my mind, and I'm only using this as an easy reference, not out of any idolatry or elevation of any human, but to me, the

Reformed Anglicanism is best expressed in the prayer book arranged by Cranmer, the articles originally authored by Cranmer and his colleagues, so that in a sense, if I can use this term, to my mind,

Cranmerian Anglicanism, and what develops that is in accord with that, an agreeable extension of understanding and of approaches to God in worship, what is consonant with that original

Anglicanism is true Anglicanism. It is scriptural, it is reformational, it is also reformed and reforming, and I am just so keen that somehow we can find an identity and an affiliation for folk of that conviction that will be of mutual encouragement and encourage cooperation in promoting that scriptural variety of Anglicanism.

It's just been my heart's desire, wherever I've been, to see this in some sort of form that is credible and outreaching and succeeds in promoting

Anglicanism as an environment in which Christians can be nurtured and discipled in a safe, biblical, reformational way.

But I'm thinking of the Reformation too, and I know this is a risky term, of being reformed

Catholicism. There is so much we derive from, you know, the ages before the

Reformation that is consistent with the Gospel. And, you know, we're always having to become more consistent with the

Gospel, whoever we are. So that's our aspiration. I don't know if that goes any way to answering

Shane's question specifically. There are a lot of reformed Anglicans.

They're not necessarily gathered together or aware of each other, but I think there is a possibility that in the current shambles in which

Anglicanism finds itself, and of course, you know, the Diocese of Sydney is the most evangelical and reformed diocese in the world.

Yeah, we've had David Old, O -U -L -D, on the program a number of times from the city. Yes, yes.

Well, I think that's a tremendous strength for, you know, the Anglicanism that we would like to see restored and revived.

And by the way, Shane... Go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, classic Anglicanism is a rarity compared to what it once was.

Well, Shane, if you go to ironsharpensironradio .com and you click on Past Shows Podcast, and then let me know later if you have difficulty doing that since you are blind.

I don't know how easy it is to find that section, but whatever software you're using,

I hope you can find it. But if you click on Past Shows Podcast and you type in the search engine

Anglican and perhaps also Episcopal or Pepiscopalian, you will get a number of interviews that we have done on the new

Ironsharpensironradio show. I know that you have not been listening since the old days. So since 2015, when we relaunched, we've had quite a number of shows on the subject with fascinating guests who are representatives of historic, biblical, and reformed

Anglicanism and Episcopalianism. So try to find those and let me know if you are successful.

Thanks again for contributing a great question to the conversation.

We are going to our final break right now. And if you want to send in a question just like Shane did, do so now or forever hold your peace because we are rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com And as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages. Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes

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Thank you. Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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Gospel of Sovereign Grace. Spread the word about firstloveradio .org And please, folks, keep praying for the founder of First Love Radio, Joe Jackowitz, pastor of Christ Bible Church in Pleasanton, California.

As many of you know, he has a very aggressive and deadly form of leukemia.

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Joe just utter joy and peace knowing that whatever the judge of all the earth will do is right.

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Dear Lord. So please pray for Joe Jackowitz and we will give you updates on his progress.

We are now just a few minutes away from concluding the program. And we have

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who asks, Satan needed to ask

God's permission in every way when he assaulted Job.

Does Satan still need to ask God permission every time he attacks someone, especially those who are children of God?

I think it indicates that in every instant of his activity, he does need

God's permission. So whether there is a direct appeal for permission or just the assumption that he can get on with things because he knows that God is simply allowing him to have his way for a short period of time and ultimately for good that God will bring out of whatever activity he's engaged in.

Well, I want you to conclude this program with what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding the subject.

I think above everything else when we consider the conflict we have with evil and with the evil one, that we can be absolutely confident of our care in the love of the

Lord Jesus. It is eternal. It chose us. It wooed us. It accompanies us day by day.

More personally than that, of course, it's him himself. But that he has guaranteed our continuance in our connection with him through this life and into the glory of the kingdom, our whole salvation and eternal well -being is dependent upon our faithful high priest and mediator.

So to glorify Christ constantly and to lean upon him as our nearest, dearest friend.

And I love the phrase, he is our elder brother. He won't let us go. Amen. And remember, folks, if you need further information about Roger Salter and St.

Matthew's Anglican Church of Birmingham, Alabama, you can go to rogersalter .com and Salter is spelled without the

P -S -A -L -T -E -R. Absolutely. Until I change my name to Peter.

Is it just time for three quick points? Sure, go ahead. The first is just on reflection.

The phrase, the ruler of the kingdom of the air, I think that indicates that we are dealing with a supernatural force that troubles us.

The second thing is, next time Shane doesn't see me, at least we can perhaps arrange for a time to have a good chat.

And the third thing is, we so cherish your visit to Birmingham. We love it. We think of it with great affection.

And maybe next time with a Thai restaurant suits you. Oh, I love Thai. I love Thai. Well, a

Thai restaurant means I have to discard my dog collar. Well, I look forward to joining you for whatever cuisine you would like to dine on.

And I want to thank everybody who listened today. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.