Eric Mason's "Blame It Claim It" Gospel

The Podcast Introduction and Why the Host Is Addressing Keller and Falwell

Welcome to the conversations that matter podcast. My name is John Harris. It is a late night. I am just Overloaded with some things that I know I'll forget so I wanted to get this podcast out there. And I hope you don't mind a little bit of a shorter podcast.

I know some of you won't Want to thank you before we get started just for all the the patrons for those who even just have sent me Support and praying for me. I just want to say I appreciate that so much it did help me.

Especially last week with the whole Keller piece. I mean that it probably cost me about 400 bucks to get all the information I needed to buy books and in a sermon archive just to do the research for that.

Probably took me minimum 40 hours. Maybe as probably 50 or 60, but I wasn't keeping track. So so so what you're doing is helping me. It does count for something and and and so just want to thank you before I do anything else in this podcast.

The topic for this podcast is the blame it claim it gospel. Yes, not not the name it claim it gospel, which you might be familiar with but the blame it claim it gospel. And I know a lot of conservative Christians they'll fight tooth and nail to Expose the name it claim it gospel like the Benny Hinn's the Creflo dollars but there's another gospel that is just as dangerous and Unfortunately, I don't see the pushback.

Even the people who are fighting it don't seem to fight it sometimes as hard as they will the name it claim it gospel. And so I'm gonna describe both of those to you. I wanted to respond real quick to a few people who reached out to me.

They said John Why didn't you in your last podcast really go after Tim Keller harder? And and what I wanted to say to that is that Number one, I can't help who I am. I was just glad maybe my standards are low.

I was just glad that Tim Keller Interacted with me. Even though he did accuse me essentially of forwarding a false dichotomy and he strawman to me. That's okay I was just glad that he interacted but so one of the things I've noticed for years in studying history is that The left loves to define terms change the meanings of terms create new terms they love to take errors of history and They want to put them under the microscope and they want to you usually they nitpick and they emphasize certain things and leave out other things that aren't convenient for their narrative and we've seen that we saw that with the Phil Vischer video and Eric Mason's book and Jamar Tisby.

I mean they all do pretty much the same thing and And and but they're not the ones doing this. They learn this. I mean this stuff has been around. This is secular stuff. This is not this is the Howard Zinn approach is the Eric Foner stuff.

You know, this isn't new and that's part of I think. From my vantage point what I've seen because I've read a lot of historians is it's nothing new for me. But for a lot of us that are not Had not read those things.

It is new. We just didn't see this in the church I don't know why this is all of a sudden a theological issue. And so It is because it's part of it's part of the neo-marxist push that's been going on in universities.

It's been alive and well there now it's in seminaries and now it's in the greater church because pastors Learn from seminary and then they go out to churches. So So here's what I wanted to say about this and this is related to the Keller piece that I wrote I was intending on not just I didn't want to do it the way the leftists do it where they misrepresent.

I wanted to accurately portray Tim Keller. But I wanted us to understand him. Well as accurately as we can as well as we can I want us to have a grasp on who Tim Keller is his biography. Where did he get these ideas from?

He didn't pull them out of the Bible. That's pretty clear. He didn't just you know, he was studying the Bible one day and and he figured out that huh, you know. This is what justice means. No, he he got these from other places and so he admits a lot of this in a lot of his sermons and his writings and and so I was just pulling them Out and everything is primary sourced.

It is I mean, it's it's Keller's in his own words. And that's what I was intending so I think that's the first step to responding to some of this in my mind sometimes is trying to understand who we're dealing with and or at least it benefits us and.

And so that's what I wanted to do. And like I said the leftists they do this wrong. They do this in a very disingenuous way, but this is what they do. In fact, you know, they go the extra step about homonym, you know, that's that's their whole argument sometimes.

And and I don't want to do that. I want to understand though the the person we're dealing with and so We'll do more on Keller. We'll respond to some of do some apologetics responding to some of his assertions.

Which I did in the last episode to some extent. But but the question that seems to persist is well. Is he a heretic and this is or is he a Christian some people ask and and this is what I want to say.

The word heresy means schism. I mean sect it means. It's a different group and I do believe Tim Keller is part of a different group and we're seeing that different group really split a split away and form and I Mean it is different.

Now is he a Joseph Smith? Well, isn't it? You know, his errors aren't as obvious as Joseph Smith. But does that mean he's less of a heretic? Not. I mean not necessarily. Yeah, Joseph Smith's ideas were obviously wrong.

Tim Keller's are not obviously wrong to someone who's not studying him deeply. But when you really put him under the microscope in his teachings. What you'll find is his gospel is is different than the one that we preach.

At least in some points now, you'll find some statements from him that sound very orthodox, but then you'll find statements from him. It's not the same gospel and and you would expect that if he conflates mercy and justice.

Then that's pretty that's part of the DNA of the gospel. You need to understand mercy. God's pouring out his mercy on us through Jesus Christ because Christ took the justice we deserve for breaking God's law you can't separate those two and call justice mercy and still have the same gospel if you're gonna be consistent at least and Hopefully Tim Keller's not as consistent, but sometimes he makes statements that it just makes me wonder.

One of the statements I even included this In the piece is he said the whole purpose of the salvation is to cleanse and purify this material world and I listened to the Speech he said it in said it to some businessmen in New York City.

That's a weird. The whole purpose of salvation is to cleanse and purify this material world. What? That seems like maybe people who are obeying God's law because they have a new heart and they love God and they've been saved are going to try to Take care of their stuff.

Because they know that it matters and God, you know wants them to be a good steward as part of the Dominion mandate. But the Dominion mandate and the gospel aren't the same thing. And Keller seems to conflate those two an awful lot in in many of his writing so all that to say is Tim Keller saved or not saved.

I don't think the The emphasis of the New Testament is on that question whether someone's going to heaven or not, I mean I Think the emphasis is on are they bringing a false teaching? Are they a false teacher?

Is Tim Keller a false teacher to some extent? I think he is. I find false teaching in his writings so, I mean, I don't know what else to say he seems to try to diminish hell to try to diminish sin and.

And then he conflates mercy and justice and for me that's enough. Because when you start taking works and you start taking grace and you start You start mixing those things Grace and works then it's not the same thing and trying to then attach the gospel to various works Is very problematic.

I will say it winds you up in a popeless Catholicism. Oftentimes or you know, maybe maybe maybe conservative even they're not even conservative evangelicals. I don't even know what to call them Progressive evangelicals.

I I don't even know if evangelical has a meaning anymore, but the people who follow Keller Maybe they do have a Pope. I mean, that's how some people treat him that he is like a Pope and so I don't want you treating me that way and and that's another thing I wanted to address real quick some people who listened to last episode thought that I was gonna throw in a towel soon or something.

No, I I just wanted to tell you guys that I'm not interested in the platform Keller has so it was gracious of him to Interact with me. I'm a little guy. I Went to seminary and I got trained to be a pastor and someday that's what I want to do.

I don't want to do this kind of thing forever. But for now, this is important. So you're not getting rid of me anytime soon. Don't worry about that. And you know when I I'm sure if we still have the freedom to to do these kinds of things.

Because I might be just shut down by YouTube. We'll see. Then yeah, I'll try to put whatever I can online as I can do it. But but that's not this is not the goal of my life it to build a platform to get You know book deals and people's approval.

No, that's just I'm not impressed with that stuff. That's what I was trying to tell you guys. And maybe I conveyed it very poorly but not throwing in the towel not yet my goal is to equip you guys as best as I can to to fight this and and so that's what I'm doing and So with that being said How's that for an introduction?

Not quitting. Thank you for your support and wanted to show you a resource here this is a resource that I bought recently called social justice in the Christian Church by Ronald Nash and I haven't read the whole thing yet.

I've been thumbing through it and It's a little dated. I'll be honest. It's from 19 I want to say 80 something looks like the early 80s but it really does, you know, it's it's pretty critical race theory and intersectionality, but Honestly those ideas.

I mean we make a big deal I think about them now because of the resolution 9 thing those ideas are just extension of neo-marxism. It's not in post-modernism. They're not. They were around before the terms were coined okay to put it that way.

They've there's been different developments and there's and there's these there's nerds who want to get into the specifics and you know. Well, that's not critical race theory because it doesn't contain this element or to me.

Look, the the errors are that they have histories. Ecclesiastes says there's nothing new under the Sun. So yes different terminology different way things are packaged. I get it, but At the end of the day, it's it's a Reconfiguration of Marxism along postmodern lines power relationships instead of economic disparities alone.

And complicated power relationship dynamics, etc. So I think this is sufficient if if you understand, I mean I tell people read the primary sources go read Rachel Delgado's critical race theory. You'll understand it.

You don't need really anything other than that I don't think unless you're gonna really be doing apologetics, you know with this area. Which I mean, I don't know why you would I mean, it's it's pretty basic stuff in my opinion sounds really complicated.

It's it's it's not when you really start looking into it. And then I think at this book. It's a good resource. So there's some other resources I know that are coming out that I have PDFs of one I endorsed that's coming out in September and then my book which is more of a historical treatment is gonna be coming out soon.

So I Will announce that as we get closer, but yeah, I just want to tell you about those resources to help you out I want to talk about Falwell Jerry Falwell. Right before we get to the main course here, which is the an Eric Mason sermon I listened to that's the blame it to claim it gospel, which we will talk about shortly, but I want to talk about Jerry Falwell.

Because this has been trending today. I got into some discussions about it on on Twitter and I Think for those who are enemies of evangelical Christianity, especially political enemies in the United States.

They really want to crown Jerry Falwell the king of evangelicalism. Jerry Falwell jr they Know he's got issues. He's said things over the years that have just not been too smart sometimes and I Think that's you know, they they've wanted something like this for a long time.

They've been chomping at the bit for it and You know It's sad. One of the verses that I kept thinking was from first Peter 315. It says for such as the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

And there's a lot of foolish men right now who are not silenced because of The fact that Jerry Falwell jr. Did not do what's right and He hasn't for for a while according to his own admission this morning and.

And so there's a few things I wanted to say. Because there's a lot being said right now, especially online. And how do you deal with this? How do you deal with when a leader falls an evangelical leader, especially and I want to point out a few things because those who are Familiar with enough with Liberty University, they know I know these are not new allegations.

Nothing has really come out that I haven't to some extent at least from what Falwell wrote that I haven't already heard. It's just that it wasn't verified that that there was a relationship between his wife and this this pool boy as they call him.

And and so this isn't a shock to me. You know, I I've seen Jerry Falwell say some things over the last year especially but but not just this last year before that that have led me to wonder sometimes if he Might have a problem with alcohol and certainly the last Picture that he posted seems to suggest that he has some kind of affinity for it.

And in you know, he is head of a school that has a policy where you're not supposed to have alcohol. So it's it Does not come off. Well, it didn't come off. Well when he posted the last picture that that he posted just for a few minutes and then deleted it.

But this isn't something that's a shock and I don't think that a lot of evangelicals really look to Jerry Falwell jr. For moral clarity or Political advice in general. Now Twitter is definitely more of a leftist venue, but even on Twitter, you know there there's enough conservatives there that that he should be getting more traction than he usually gets and The fact is he does not get a lot of traction on Twitter he's I don't sense that he is well, he has been well liked by evangelicals in general for a long time as far as being a moral compass and So So I think when when you hear things like, you know Evangelicals went for Trump because of Jerry Falwell and now that he's fallen, you know, what's gonna happen?

I don't think much is gonna happen. I don't think a lot of evangelicals are thinking. Well, I don't know Trump or Hillary. Well, Jerry Falwell jr. Endorsed Trump. I guess I'm gonna vote for Trump. No, I don't think that that took place so I think there's there's a lot of a Lot of hopes and dreams of progressives that are riding on this being a big deal For the election and which is probably part of the reason it's coming out but I don't buy that so I don't that gives you any hope but For what it's worth.

I don't think that he was such a role model to evangelicals at all. And so Does that mean it's not a big deal. No, it is a big deal it's sad is what it is because his father was a committed Christian from what I know he did build Liberty University up and And and this is a story that I'm all too familiar with because I've seen it where You know the sons and daughters sometimes the children of pastors men of great faith Sometimes will end up straying from that faith or it was never really their faith.

They just grew up in the culture of it and It's very possible that Jerry Falwell does not know the Lord. I don't know I mean, I just had this whole discussion on you know, that's not really in the New Testament.

That's not the emphasis. Does someone know the Lord or not? When it comes to false teaching though, and I don't think Jerry Falwell jr. He's not a pastor. He never bought brought a false teaching That I'm aware of He he did take the convocations that were More spiritual and he made them more political he did things like that, but that's not a false teaching.

So his emphasis was certainly not Necessarily on the gospel. I never got that impression from him. I think most of the people at Liberty University didn't get that impression from him. His emphasis was more political.

In fact, I don't remember Jerry Falwell ever saying he was saved. Now he probably did somewhere. He would have had to make some profession probably to stand in his dad's shadow and take the reins of Liberty University.

But I don't remember him giving a testimony ever and so all that to say. What do you do in this situation, I think you pray. This isn't like the social justice debate where you have one side Defending to the teeth.

It's false teachings people forwarding false teachings. You know, we're trying to make the case that these are bad these are false teachings. This is something that no one's defending. Everyone knows it's bad.

Just about I mean, I haven't seen anyone defending it. We can all see that Jerry Falwell has admitted that some of the things that he's done I don't take this quote-unquote pool boy would I forget his name?

But what what he's saying about the events I don't necessarily know if what he's saying is accurate or not. I'm sure more will come out in time, but This is embarrassing for them. And I know you know, I I was raised in a pastor's family.

I'm the oldest guy have some brothers and you know, we We were certainly raised in a shadow and I can't Even comprehend what the shadow of a Jerry Falwell would look like to be raised in the home of Jerry Falwell.

So so when you have doubts or you do something wrong, or you don't really believe Christianity those kinds of things. There's a pressure when you're raised with a man who's looked upon as a spiritual leader to toe the line to not Not jeopardize that you don't want to embarrass him.

You don't want to. You want to meet other people's expectations because they think you're a great kid. Maybe Jerry Falwell jr. Is one of those guys. I've wondered that for a while whether he was just playing along and cultural Christianity and you know, he was raised in this bubble and you know.

Now here's where he is. I mean this may be an opportunity that the Lord can work in his life and his wife's life and maybe this young man. Oh, he was a young man it's life and Maybe he can bring salvation if there isn't or or if there is maybe maybe this is the time for some some serious Restoration and some serious repentance and and that's I think the the tone that we should set and when the world rages against these things.

Don't be surprised. They're gonna do it. Anyway, this just gives them an opportunity and you can gently just say well, this isn't this isn't the example Jesus set for us. You know, but but thank God that for his grace and mercy and hey have you ever sinned.

Have you ever broken God's law? You're upset that Jerry Falwell's broken God's law. Well good. I'm glad you care about God's law. So what about you? I mean, that's kind of how you can turn it back if you want to but.

But but I don't think that's the point I think most of the people that are criticizing him right now are doing it for political reasons. But I don't think it'll change much politically. So that's my analysis of that and and my encouragement to you to let's pray I've been praying for him today and his wife feel so bad for his wife, even though I realized they yeah.

They brought this on themselves, but that's that's sin. I Brought some things on myself in my life, and I I don't know what it is. I have it's it's not because of his political stance I'll tell you that he's done some political things.

He endorsed a candidate. I think it was last year I was like how in the world can he endorse this guy? He's a Republican candidate, but he was performing gay weddings and I just I was scratching my head.

I I wouldn't say I could tell you more stories, but You know, I'm not in Jerry Falwell's camp. I was very critical of Jerry Falwell actually in 2016 when he immediately endorsed Trump and then took the picture with the playboy behind him and you know, I'm like What are you you're trying to you know represent the biggest Christian University?

And so anyway, I I'm not doing this for political reasons I'm not defending his sin at all I I just wanted to convey that I do have some compassion here that I want to see him repent and be restored. Maybe not to be a president of I'm glad I've heard he stepped down.

I'm not sure. I hope he did that that's probably the wise choice at this point, but. But but to be to just have his marriage restored of his family restored those kinds of things the gospel of Jesus Christ can do that and.

And you look at the the pages of scripture you look at some of the men that God uses and what their pasts are like and I mean look at Paul he's killing Christians and holding the robes of people killing Christians and look what God does so It wouldn't be the first time that that God has turned around someone who was quote-unquote religious.

But perhaps not a Christian or if he was He was not living like one so. That is that is enough of that. I just I felt compelled to say something let's Let's talk about this prosperity Gospel that is instead of name it claim.

It is blame it claim it. So let's talk about this. Oh, there's me. Yes. So this is a I'll expand this here. So if you haven't watched my video on slavery and reparations, I did put a lot of time into that.

That was March 22nd of 2019, but I would suggest watching that if you're more interested in the topic. We're going to talk about only a little over a thousand people have watched it. So this was back before I had as many subscribers as I do now, but trust me the content.

It's it's good stuff as far as for what I do. At least it's. It's it's probably a little more than you'd expect there's a whole slide show with it and everything. So I want to start this off by By saying first you can go there if you want more, but the discussion has ramped up since I did that video.

Here's a recent headline. Economist proposes slavery reparations up to 12 trillion equivalent to 800 ,000 per black household or more than half of the American GDP. And there's a lot of local municipalities and universities that are now trying to do reparations and so.

There was a an article that came in my inbox from the American Spectator. Someone had sent it to me this week. Or last week. I can't remember but it's actually also from 2019. The South has already paid reparations.

The southern states have paid the price for losing the Civil War many times over and it's an interesting article. I put the link in the info section, but it's kind of it's an argument saying that economically The the war itself has been paid for by that region of the country now that's a little bit of a different question than the kind of reparations that I think are being talked about right now, but.

But but those who would want to blame one section or region of the country. And at least I don't I don't know if that's even where people are at now, maybe in 2019. They were. It's a good article. I think to just show maybe some things that that have not been Thoroughly discussed yet.

And then there's another article. I just was poking around and found this reparations were already paid reparations were already paid it was called the Civil War and it's just it just takes you through kind of like what what was the cost of the Civil War and then what was the Results and one of the results was that slavery ended and so.

So this this is your reparations kind of thing now I mean, I appreciate the fact that people are trying to mount some kind of an argument, but I don't know if that Necessarily addresses directly the issue that you're gonna find Eric Mason bringing up here soon because the insinuation the accusation really is that Americans and white Americans specifically as a group are guilty for the stealing of Africans and Then everything that's happened since then so they really just say that it was slavery and then you know the mass incarceration and I mean they You know because I've done the videos now we go through the whole list of all the things that they claim have stemmed from racism and slavery and I mean it gets into everything.

It's it's the kind of diet that people eat in urban areas. It's medical treatment. It's etc. Etc. Etc education, so that's kind of the argument that that Eric Mason makes and. And so he believes in reparations.

He wants reparations. He never specifically puts a number on it. He doesn't outline his plan. Most of these guys don't and they won't but it's it's a very an emotionally appealing argument. For why we we need to do reparations and and so I address that most of that in that previous video that I just showed you a screenshot from but in this particular Sermon that I listened to from Eric Mason.

He goes over a number of biblical passages and and I will say that I mean this is where Paul David Tripp goes to church. And he's under this preaching. I will say if this sermon that I listened to is representative of Eric Mason's preaching I'm shocked at how poor it was.

I was expecting some exegesis. I was expecting an exegetical sermon of some kind or an attempt at that. This wasn't an attempt at an exegetical sermon. This was a whole lot of opinion, which really came from mostly new left critiques of American history mixed with a Quasi biblical ethic which he which you don't even find in scripture.

He's using the scripture as kind of a veneer. And underneath it is not biblical ethics. It's it's the Marxist stuff and it's just so obvious to me when I was listening to the sermon. And so I was disappointed in that and maybe not all his sermons are like that but but the thought occurred to me I'm like this guy is not this isn't the same gospel.

This is not the same gospel. He uses the term gospel quite a bit, but he wants to connect it to reparations. He wants to connect it to works and I'm sorry, you don't connect you don't take those categories and start mixing them so I Wanted to play for you.

I'm not gonna do it just for the sake of time I was gonna play for you a clip of Prosperity preaching. I'm just gonna describe it though Prosperity preaching or name it to claim it type preaching is the kind of preaching that you'll hear when you turn on something like the Trinity Broadcasting Network perhaps and you'll see Creflo dollar or Benny Hinn or TD Jake's and they're Sometimes working up a sweat, but they're they're talking about how God wants to bless you and they'll take passages on Real passages on God Blessing his people and they'll say God wants to bless you and all you got to do.

You just got to give you got to sow your seed. You got to believe that God's gonna bless you and so they're trying to get you to come to God and come to the gospel. Come to Christianity for the stuff the material stuff that you're gonna get and of course We know that that's wrong because that's not the drawcard in the Bible.

That's not why you come to Christianity and and so. So this is called the prosperity gospel, there's been documentaries made about it you have like American gospel, right? Which is a documentary that was made about this and I know that's not the only one but you got guys their whole ministries like Justin Peters.

Just about is is about this this name it claim it prosperity gospel stuff well, the blame it to claim it to prosperity gospel is what Eric Mason preaches and it's not any better and I'm gonna put a cap on it and kind of explain it to you at the end but I want to take you through some clips from Eric Mason and We're gonna talk about it.

So Buckle your seatbelt. Here is clip number one that I want to play for you.

Got themselves into captivity because of their idolatry and sin. But look they still got reparations because of the time they were in. Look what it says. It says let every survivor Wherever he resides be Assisted.

Listen to this. By the men of that region with silver hallelujah gold hallelujah. Goods hallelujah and livestock. I feel God right there. Along with a free will offering they talk about stacks. They give the people of God.

Drip coming out of there, right? It was drip ology coming out of the ministry, right? And so it says here is it says free will offering for the house of God in Jerusalem. So so so so I'll notice the free will offering is for the house of God.

But the silver the gold the goods and the livestock are for the people in other words. This is what they knew that when they sent them back to their land that they had nothing and so it would be Unjust to send them back to their land without anything to be able to begin to build their own independent economy.

That's what I love about this is they set them up to build their own independent economy. And so it's because they knew that they want to need to do that so that they wouldn't be long-term dependent on them.

The reason why they've been so many challenges in America is because people are talking about welfare and all that personal welfare and and and social security was created for white people, but We're quote-unquote benefiting off of it, but there's nothing that's been done in this country.

Comprehensively as a system beyond the handout. Versus a hand up to help there to be economic independence among black people so.

So you so you get the impression from that maybe he wants a hand up right instead of a handout. So maybe maybe he's reading Thomas Sowell. You think maybe he's thinking we should get rid of minimum wage and get rid of welfare and start I don't know getting the government out of the the welfare business and try to get the church back into the charity business and you know.

Like they did at the turn of the century men would chop wood women would quilt and then they'd get their food. I don't know. I don't think he's doing that. I don't think that's that's where he's going here.

He wants to use some some passages to forward his idea of reparations and you could you could hear it in that. He sounds like a prosperity preacher, you know, he's interjecting his amens, you know. With I'm gonna read you the passage here.

But you know, they're this is what they were given. They're given the silver. Amen. They're given a gold. Amen. Let me ask you if this sounds like reparations to you. This is the passage. He's reading.

This is from Ezra. Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia Ezra chapter 1 by the way verse 1 the first year of Cyrus king of Persia in order to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah.

The Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia. So that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom and also put it in writing saying Thus says Cyrus king of Persia the Lord the God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth.

And he has appointed me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever there is among you of all his people may his God be with him. Let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the Lord the God of Israel.

He is the God who is in Jerusalem every survivor at Whatever place he may live let the men of that place support him with silver and gold with goods and cattle together with a free Will-offering for the house of God which is in Jerusalem and Okay, so Do you see reparations in any of that as being the motivation that be because they were mistreated somehow.

They were owed this or is the reason in here given that it was to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah and That this was a command of the king of Persia To complete an objective building God a house in Jerusalem and This is really his way of taxing, you know to support this project.

This there's nothing in here that would make you think reparations. But Eric Mason is imposing this on the text. Why is he doing that? Why? Why where does it say that he uses the word justice where I don't even see that in here.

Words not there. There's no mishpat. I don't see justice. What are you talking about? Pastor Mason? He talks about how the welfare system was, you know created for white people. I'd like to see the primary source on that.

Because I'm pretty sure that everyone Benefited from that. In fact, there's something called affirmative action, which is specifically against white people. It's not for them. Conveniently he did he didn't talk about that.

I've actually seen some articles or I saw an article once like and I Something I didn't have time to really search for it. But it was someone who tried to make a calculation of Reparations and say that reparations have been paid because of affirmative action and welfare and these kinds of things.

I don't know. I haven't crunched all those numbers and I Don't think you can and that was part of if you watch the video I did on reparations. That's part of my point is that there's no way to actually do this.

There's the pot the populations That have come here since slavery the percent of the population who actually owned slaves. But they weren't even the ones who went and got the slaves and the ones who got the slaves.

We're buying them from tribes in Africa so it's not it's. So so really it should be if you really want to get to the root of it. It should be asking for reparations from People that reside in the Ivory Coast at the Ivory Coast.

I guess I don't know. In fact, there's there's I was reading this recently. There's a movie which I don't write necessarily recommend the movie. It's not historically accurate, but it's called Amistad and the main character in the movie who's kind of like the victim.

It doesn't show this in the movie but what actually happened the post script if they made a sequel was this slave who. Who's kind of the hero or the he's you know, he's a main figure in the movie he is kind of a victim but What happens after that story ends is he actually goes back to Africa and he becomes a slave trader himself.