Response to Listener over Vaccines

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Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the

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Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rapoport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

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We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your questions, challenges, whatever you have on the Bible. And today we're going to deal with a response to a listener.

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So let me bring in Pastor Justin. How are you, sir? Doing good, brother. How are you doing? All right.

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So we're going to address, what we want to do today is really just address a rather long,

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I can speak, it's really easy, rather long response that we got to someone we said last week about a listener who responded to you.

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It's actually, as I look at it in Microsoft Word, as I put it in there so I can read it easier, it is two pages long.

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So this is a long one, folks. And I'm just going to say up front, when we get to this, it is a little bit hard for me to understand because he wrote something and then he says, edit three, edit three, edit two, edit three.

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And I'm not sure if he's editing his own words. So we'll get into that. But I'm going to say up front that it was,

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I think, a little discombobulated. And so I don't know if he was just typing and then trying to edit something he said earlier.

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I'm not sure. And so that may affect how it gets presented. I hope not.

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But what we're going to end up talking about, I'm sure, is things about the COVID vaccine.

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Justin, you got the COVID vaccine, correct? Yep, I did. So that gets some people upset.

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And that really was what we had, was someone got, someone was upset with, you know, with that.

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And so, what is this, Chris? Anything Chris Honholtz types,

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I want to see. What does he say here? Okay. Just to ensure Andrew understands, I'm typing as I am parked and not yet driving.

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I'll be listening as I drive home. That said, howdy. So, okay, we know he's not driving and texting.

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Good, good, good boy. I don't want you to do that. But that means if he's not responding, if he's not texting, we don't know.

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He should just call in while he drives home. He should do that. He should. You know, we could really enjoy a good discussion.

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Because, you know, he could. Your video is getting messed up again.

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I didn't hear what you said. Am I there? Am I here? You probably have kids playing like video games or watching a movie upstairs.

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Something. I just want to say thank you to Joanne. She says, I'm not in the mood for people to jump on Justin.

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I really appreciate that. Okay. But having said that, you know, let's make sure that where we're at.

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Am I allowed to jump on you, though? Well, you can jump on me all the time. Okay. I just, I didn't know if that's acceptable with Joanne.

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Yeah. But think about it, guys. Having said that, I just want to make sure where we're coming from on this.

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We come from different points of view and different situations where we're trying to deal with the life as Christians and as believers.

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You know, Andrew Sanders, you know, living in a communist type area. So he's having to deal with all kinds of stuff.

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I left New Jersey. Oh, that's right. He left New Jersey. And, you know, but he's, you know, he's in an area, you know, what is it?

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The Philippines? No. Where are we at? Where are we at,

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Andrew? You're in the Philippines. Oh, Pennsylvania. That's right. So, but I live down here in Tennessee.

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And so we have a completely different area. And all of us do. We all have different situations. You know, we now have a communist nation between each of us with Virginia.

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And they are trying to go back. You know, they got young kids. Well, before you get into politics, here's what

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Joanne says. It's not addressed at you, Andrew. You took up for him. That's right. And so let's deal with this.

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So and I should say, you know, we have differing views on some of these issues.

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And but one thing that we're going to agree to is what I didn't, what I took offense at.

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And this was comments that we got in from a guy named Ronald Small. And I don't feel that since his comments are public on YouTube, I don't feel like I, you know, like I think that allows me to use his name, you know, and people will be able to see his comments there just in fairness.

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So, you know, I took offense with Ronald and some of the comments he made.

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Now, I'll say right off at the get go, there's going to be something that as we deal with that,

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I think I'm going to need to apologize and ask forgiveness of Ronald for, because it seems that I jumped to a conclusion maybe, or I read into something when he was calling he was calling

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Justin weak for taking the vaccine. And I'm going to give you a chance to, again, explain why you did that.

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I think it's important for folks to understand. He has a very, very strong view against the vaccine.

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And I just took issue with him calling you weak, kind of assuming you went to the dark side type of thing.

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I don't remember the comments now. I didn't keep them from last week. I do remember him calling you weak.

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And I may have made the conclusion or assumed that he was questioning your salvation.

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And so he's going to clarify that and say that he wasn't doing that. And if he was not implying that you were not saved, and I'm going to admit that's kind of hard because we're going to see he's praying for our souls over the issue of vaccines.

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So assuming that if I guess, you know, I guess if we're saying vaccines are OK, he's saying we're not saved again.

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And so it is confusing, but I want to be as fair as possible. And therefore, if you have if he wasn't questioning just in salvation, then he wasn't adding to the gospel.

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OK, now I was I was accusing him of legalism, which when you add to the gospel and you add anything to the gospel, you have to believe in the gospel.

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You have faith. Plus, you have to hold to this view of something, whether it's circumcision. That was the thing that the

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Judaizers had. Right. That's legalism. That's the book of Galatians. And I brought up the book of Galatians.

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If he was not implying that, then I was wrong. And so when I whenever I'm wrong, you know,

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I know there's people that claim that I never, you know, that I don't do this. But whenever I'm wrong, those who are regular listeners to the show, you know this.

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When I'm wrong, I deal with it up front in the show. I deal with it first thing. And I'm not perfect.

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And if you guys think you are, you're wrong. But I want to address from if I'm wrong and need to correct something,

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I'd like to do that at the beginning of the show before we get into the content. And that's what I'm looking to do here is, you know, if if before we even get to we'll get to it as we read through his comment.

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But if I've said something that's incorrect, that if I implied something that he's now clarifying and saying that I was wrong on, then that needs to be corrected.

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And that's what I'm doing here. So, Ronald, if you were not implying that Justin is not saved, if you are not adding to the gospel, a position that you have to take on vaccines, then it wouldn't have been a legalism.

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OK. And therefore, some of the comments I make would it would have been an error. So please forgive me.

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So I want to get that out of the way. It was good to see he's going to ask that of you,

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Justin, as well. What I guess what I guess we could do is should I just share this as we go through it?

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Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm going to try to go through it with you and kind of kind of begin with a statement here.

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I'm going to make it a little larger for folks so that they can see it. And and I'm just going to say again,

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I mean, just bear with me as the fact that as you see this, we're it's going to be there's going to be some things here,

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I think, that are a tad bit confusing. All right. I'm just going to say that up front. Now, let me actually so that I could see.

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I guess I'm not going to be able to see the comments if I do this. So the comments on screen, if you see any.

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All right. First off, he says, hello, Andrew. I have the utmost respect for you.

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So I apologize to Pastor Justin. Let's just stop there. He's he's apologized, not really asked forgiveness, but I'm going to assume that.

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So, Justin, do you forgive him? Yeah, absolutely. OK, absolutely. And one thing

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I'll say is, you know, I don't know this gentleman and I don't know that I've ever even heard of him before.

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You sent me an email and said, hey, let's look at this and we need to discuss it. And I don't hold a grudge against anybody for, you know, their position on the vaccine or not.

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You know, we've talked about this and I want to make sure it's clear. I agree with Melissa Owens. I don't need to justify what

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I'm doing or why I've done it. This is not a salvation issue. It's not a gospel issue. But for me, it's so that I can go share the gospel with people that I couldn't interact with.

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I have many people that are and were in our church before COVID that have gotten

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COVID. They have gotten reactions from it. They've had, you know, terrible reactions from it.

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And I couldn't be around them. Thank you, Joanne. Police officers, even former ones, aren't weak.

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And I agree with that. Thank you very much. For those who don't understand, you're a former police officer.

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OK, I'm sorry. I didn't say that. Well, and the thing is, is the reason

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I took it, took the vaccine, was I was staring down the barrel of a surgery that, you know, could have been life threatening.

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And when I was finished with the surgery, that's when the

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COVID came out. Now, everybody will remember that during that time, Donald Trump was president and he was trying to get this vaccine.

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And all the Democrats were doing what, Andrew? I think they were saying we shouldn't trust a vaccine.

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We shouldn't trust the government with a vaccine. Trump is behind the vaccine and we shouldn't trust the vaccine.

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So what's changed now is we understand the dangers of the vaccine and the

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COVID as well. But at the time, I've had doctors saying that you need to take this or you need to consider it.

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You need to look at it because if you catch this as deadly as they thought it was, and we know that they lumped in a lot of stuff to it.

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We know that, you know, there's no doubt about it. It was used as a, quote unquote, Trump card to try to destroy our president.

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And even though he still won, it was a Trump card for that. It was a

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Trump card to bring in socialism, to bring in critical race theory, to bring in, you know, the destruction of our nation wholesale.

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We know that. OK, but that doesn't mean that the vaccine itself or that doesn't mean that COVID itself is a fake.

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I've personally known 11 people that have gotten it, nine people that have died from it. And it's provable that they died from it.

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OK, I don't want anybody to die from it. I don't want anybody to go to hell. I don't want anybody to die from it.

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I want to, you know, be as safe as I can for myself and my family, for my church, for the people that are around me.

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So, you know, I take the approach Dan Bongino took. He took the approach, I'm going to take the vaccine because I don't want to die.

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I don't want to, you know, because of his medical condition, he needed to take it. I went ahead as quick as I could, got into the vaccine study, wanted to check it out.

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And I felt comfortable that, OK, if something bad happens to me,

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I'm OK, you know, because guess what's going to happen if I die, Andrew? You go to heaven. I'm going to heaven, so you're not going to threaten me with death.

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OK, I'm not afraid of it. OK, I took it because to be honest with you, I wanted to be able to share the gospel with more people.

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My intention in this is to share the gospel. If I can, you know, go out, go places and be in different places.

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We went down to Florida and with Andrew and Anthony and all the guys, we went down to Florida and I had taken the vaccine, already did all that.

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And they said, OK, you can get on flight. I witnessed everybody I could, and I'm not trying to brag about it. But that's that's my goal is everywhere

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I can go, I'm going to do whatever I can to share the gospel. Now, I understand everybody's arguments, vaccine.

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I understand all of those issues. I am not going to tie myself down to those things.

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And here's why. I know the reasons I took it. I know the reasons that that I care about taking it.

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I don't want my family to get sick. You know, I want to do the best I can for my community, for the people in my church to be the best witness

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I can be, to be the most responsible I can be. All of that, you know, is my reasons for doing that.

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You know, so when I see somebody say you're a coward, when

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I see somebody say, oh, you're not man enough or whatever else, you haven't walked in my shoes.

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OK, you haven't walked in my shoes and you haven't dealt with what

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I've dealt with. I've had a couple of times from medical ruptures and other things like that. Lost careers, lost ability to do stuff that, you know, that I used to do because of this.

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But at no time did I ever stop sharing the gospel. God gave me opportunity after opportunity, even through all my surgeries, to share the gospel.

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To be sitting there talking to people who are going through the COVID vaccine or the

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COVID virus and able to share the gospel with them. Explain to them, this is not our home. So this is not what we're to be living for and dying for.

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This is not the hill for me to die on. So, Joanne, I love it.

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She says, nobody walked in anyone's shoes, but they sure have a lot of opinions. And I agree with that.

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I agree with that. So let's go ahead and get started on this. One of the things to say is, my position has been,

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I don't tend to take flu shots or things like that.

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I tend to let my body have the natural immunity. That's just where I've been now.

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But the issue is, I've always said, hey, if I need to take a flu shot or COVID vaccine to be able to share the gospel,

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I'm going to do that. Brother, I heard you say it directly.

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And I'm going to tell you, just so everybody else hears this, Andrew doesn't need to hear it. Andrew is one of my closest friends.

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And when he says something, he doesn't just blow smoke and puff wind.

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He's serious. He's one of the most godly men I know. And so when he stands on the position he stands on, he's not doing it out of just some kind of reaction.

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He's doing it with a level -headed focus on what is the glory of God. How am I going to glorify God in this?

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And how can I do more ministry by doing this? And that's where I'm at as well. And so I want to have that as the background, because when you ask the question, do you forgive this man?

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Absolutely. Absolutely. Number one, I don't know him. I don't know his situation. I'm not his judge.

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And I'm going to say this. He will stand before God, and he'll give an account for what he said and done, and so will

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I. Okay? Now, this goes, in my opinion, I hope it's sincere. And if it's sincere, it goes a long way towards saying, hey, you know,

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Lord, I overstepped, and I accept that, and I apologize. Absolutely, I forgive him. He's actually going to,

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I think, ask your forgiveness a couple times in here. Oh, okay. Yeah. So as we look through it, I mean, here's—and this is where I get the first part, right?

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It says, okay, hello, Andrew. With the utmost respect for you, I apologize to Pastor Justin. Edit one. And this is where, folks,

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I'm just saying, I had trouble reading it. So I want to be, as those of you who are regular listeners, you know,

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I want to be as fair as I possibly can. I'm not sure, like when you'll see below in edit three,

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I'm not sure what edit—these edits are editing sometimes. And so that's why

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I'm going to put it up here so you can see it, and I'm going to read it as it is. And maybe you guys will see—maybe

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I'm misreading something with some of these edits. And so Melissa says there that you put up, as Christians, we need to respect one another's decisions.

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All right, so let's get through this. It's two pages long. We'll see how far we can go. So edit one.

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At your request, you also asked me to show you in the Bible where it says not to take the vaccine.

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So let me just clarify that with what I said. Yeah, I said that because I was—it seemed like he was saying that if Justin took the vaccine, that he wasn't saved.

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And I just don't see the vaccine, and I still don't, even after looking at the verses he brings up.

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I don't see the vaccine in the Bible. I just don't see it there. Now, he's going to make a conclusion where he does see it, and we'll address that because this is something a lot of people see.

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Well, this is about hermeneutics. I mean, guys, Apologetics Live, this is about hermeneutics, guys.

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And this is going to be a good opportunity to talk about the issues on how we interpret the Word of God. Yeah, that's a good point.

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And it's going to be where we don't want to jump to conclusions. And you brought up a good point, actually, in the beginning, is there were a lot of conservatives that were for the vaccine because Trump was for the vaccine.

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It is interesting how when Trump was for the vaccine and he was in office, Democrats were against it.

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Now that they're in office, they're for it, and conservatives are against it. The vaccine—let me be clear on my position.

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A COVID vaccine should not be a political issue. I 100 % agree.

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Absolutely. We're going to examine the science. I know we've been hearing follow the science.

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But what we should be doing with this is examining the science of it.

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Now, I do want to make a separation here. We're talking about the vaccine, not vaccine mandates.

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At least I am. The reason I'm making that differentiation is because one of the things that I've been noticing, and I'm very interested to see, how many people have taken the vaccine are so against vaccine mandates.

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So they're not against the vaccine. They're against the mandates. Okay? There's a big difference there.

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And so you're raising your hand. Okay. Yes. So I am against vaccine mandates.

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1 ,000%. Okay? I don't think—in this country, we have freedoms.

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We have laws. We have certain laws that are to prevent a mandate.

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I actually believe that my understanding—and I'm not a constitutional lawyer—but my understanding of the law is that the mandate is actually illegal.

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And I think that's why he's doing it through OSHA, to get businesses to do it, because the government can't. Okay? Yeah.

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That's my position. And so what we're talking about—so

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I just want to differentiate between vaccines and vaccine mandates, okay? Because we're going to talk about the vaccine.

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So he's saying here, at your request, you asked me to show you where in the

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Bible it says not to take the vaccine. If you will bear with me—so I'm going to try to read this section here in one spot so that we get the context.

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That's part of hermeneutics. I want to give him that fairness as well. So, if you will bear with me for a second,

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I will do just that. It isn't legalism. I am familiar with Galatians. I am adding no new gospel.

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It's not my view that anyone needs to submit to. I wish this view—sorry—I wish this view did not exist.

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However, it is a view that I am afraid that we have to submit to.

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This view is one of the most fast -becoming necessary in order to conduct economic commerce.

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People are losing their jobs over it. People are banned from shopping in stores.

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European countries are banning people from grocery stores if they're not vaxxed.

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This is the most serious issue humanity has ever faced. The public is being sentenced to death by starvation if they do not accept an injection into their body.

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The very ability to buy and sell is at stake. I give you Revelation 13, 16 -17.

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And he quotes it. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads.

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And no man might buy or sell save that he had the mark or the name of the beast or the number of his name.

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That's Revelation 13, 16 -17. So let me stop there, and let's dissect this now.

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So in the beginning part, he's addressing the issue that I already raised with the legalism. I've already said if I was wrong and applied the character of legalism to him and that was incorrect, then

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I'm wrong. And I'm saying as we get down this letter,

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I'm struggling with interpreting it to see whether that is what he's saying. But he's saying that this is a view that no one needs to submit to.

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But then just after that, he says he thinks this is fastly becoming something that everyone needs to submit to.

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I'm just going to say I don't know what to do with that, Ronald. I don't know. I just don't know how to interpret it.

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You're saying it seems, and I'm saying seems. I don't want to make an accusation. I don't want to be wrong again.

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I have to apologize again. It seems like he's saying an opposite thing. That's what it seems like.

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And we're not going to do that. By the way, I should mention we're not going to do this like another show, but I just thought that this was long.

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The fact that he asked forgiveness, we needed to do it. The fact that I needed to ask forgiveness, we needed to do this. But I think there's a lot of teaching things in here that a lot of people are questioning, like what he says here about the mark of the beast.

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Now, one of the things as we look at Revelation 13, it's very clear that this mark is where?

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The right hand or the forehead. So the vaccine is being used as something to prevent some people from being able to buy or sell in some countries.

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However, and this is a question that many people say, is this the mark of the beast?

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Well, let's just read his next edit three, which I never found edit two. But here's edit three. I'm not saying the vaccine is the mark of the beast.

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Bear with me, please. OK, so, you know, but what I want I am saying is that, again, as I said earlier, there is a difference between the vaccine and the vaccine mandate.

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What he's addressing with Revelation 13 and the mark of the beast is the idea of a vaccine mandate that has nothing to do with the vaccine.

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Do I believe that this is the mark of the beast? No, no. For the very simple reason that of the scripture verse that he gave us, the scripture verse he gave us is the fact that it's not on the right hand or the forehead.

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Joanne says, I appreciate his apology as as though it was to me.

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I'm not sure why she thought it was to her. But so so let's let's dig into this a bit more because he's saying it's a serious issue and it is the way the vaccine mandate is being done.

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I have serious concern. I'm I am against a mandate. Do I think that there could be reason why people should get a vaccine?

26:06

Yeah, there could be. Follow the science. The science says it. Then there's a good reason.

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And I'm assuming that, you know, I could be wrong here. I'm assuming that Justin is talking and thanking someone who is in the room with him.

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Yes, I'm thanking my wife and my daughter for bringing me supper. You know, they were out they were out doing this stuff and they brought home supper and they're giggling at me now.

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And later they will they'll be able to giggle even more. Yeah, no kidding. So let's

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I want to add to what you're saying. Not that I read lips. And so you have to be careful. I might I may just say to the audience what you're saying to your wife.

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Yeah, yeah. Lean into the microphone. No one can see. So I want to add to what you're saying here.

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When is the mark of the beast going to be forced upon the world?

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And. Oh, go ahead. OK, so the mark of the beast is foisted, thrown upon the world by the

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Antichrist. You know, during the midpoint of the tribulation, according to the scripture, the mark of the beast.

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Now, church history is, you know, deals with a thing called Gematria, which is the

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Hebrew lettering, Hebrew numbering where they try to, you know, it's more like pulling out of almost almost

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Gnostic new understandings to say, oh, this number means this. This number means this. It's not 100 percent the same way.

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But you have to worry about those people that would try to interpret. Oh, this means this and this means that when it comes to the mark of the beast.

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And that's been throughout all church history. People have always wanted to know and identify who is.

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You know, what is the mark of the beast and the number of his name? Because it says it here. But the point is, is you're not going to know.

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Who is the beast until the time of the Antichrist, when he gains his power and when he does gain his power, the entire world, except for those that are believers, are going to gladly turn their body over to taking this mark.

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It's not that half the world or three quarters of the world is against it. It's not that the socialists are saying, oh, we're in power and we want to make everybody take it.

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Is that the whole world says, oh, this is great because we want to do it to worship our deity leader.

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And the only exception to that is, is those whom God has sealed himself who will not take the mark and who will gladly die in opposition to it.

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This is not the mark of the beast. Go ahead. Yeah, I would agree. You know,

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I think that that's that, you know, so, you know, we want to be fair because he's saying here in his third edit.

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And again, I'm putting this to say, I don't know. People are different when they write.

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I don't know if he wrote this out and then said, oh, let me let me go back and put edits in there.

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Like because I have seen that where people I don't get it. Like if you're if you have the ability to edit, just overwrite, remove, change that.

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But then there's some people who they write stream of consciousness. They write. And literally, I have seen people write.

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Oops, I shouldn't have said that. That was a mistake that hit backspace and correct it.

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Like, I have not understood that. I understand the younger generation. It seems to be the thing. I don't get it.

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So he's saying I'm not saying that the vaccine is the mark of the beast. Bear with me, please. Now, it seemed like he was saying not the vaccine, but the vaccine mandate.

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And I think maybe he was. I think that's maybe what he's saying.

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I'm not 100 percent sure. But he also had the passports here. Well, and that's part of the vaccine mandate issue.

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So let's look at that. OK. He says, continuing on, this is no trifle matter.

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This isn't me saying that. This is John, by the inspiration of Holy Spirit, saying that we are already discussing

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Vax passports. OK, pause. Pause. I'm sorry. I have to say pause because this is no trifling matter.

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This isn't me saying that. This is John. No, John didn't say that. Well, he's saying John said what's in Revelation.

30:42

Oh, OK. But the Vax passports is not inspired scripture.

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Correct. Correct. I'm trying to figure out what he's saying. I think he's referring back to Revelation there. OK. All right.

30:54

We'll go with that. Yeah. Oh, hey. Hey, check this out. Look at this.

31:00

Chris Honholdt says, wahoo, I'm home. Now I can heckle Andrew in chat. I believe he's probably driving down the road illegally.

31:08

I think some police officer needs to find him. I'm wondering, you know, like, OK, so here's the thing. We've been recording not long enough for him to get home,

31:16

I don't think. Yeah, not long. Chris called me. One of the things I look forward to is when Chris goes to work because I get this video chat with him.

31:25

We get this video chat. No. So I know how long it takes him to get to work. So he must get home faster than he gets.

31:30

That actually could make sense. Now I think about it. He probably drives to work much slower than getting home to see his family is probably like speed limit.

31:38

What speed limit? I'm a police officer. No. I'm not saying that. He probably wasn't doing that.

31:43

It's probably that on the way to work. He's probably doing like, you know, 20 below the speed limit because he's not looking forward to going to work.

31:51

But he has less than, I forget how many days now.

31:56

I was going to say less than a thousand, but I know it's way less than a thousand now of days before retirement. We got to get the countdown.

32:02

So Chris, give us the countdown. I'm sure you'll do that. Just like Andy Griffith.

32:11

Okay, so let's get back to it. So he's saying this is no trifle matter. This isn't me saying that.

32:17

This is John by the inspiration of Holy Spirit saying that we have already discussed Vax Passports. We are also discussing the need for multiple boosters.

32:26

How will all of these boosters be tracked? The passport will become extremely complicated unless it is made universal.

32:36

A single database can be accessed at the very blip of a button.

32:42

And if you carry nothing more than a small microchip. Now, the whole thing with the microchip, you see the thing with that is.

32:54

I'm sorry, I'm dying now. KT says, Justin said that with a

32:59

Southern accent too. Yeah. And by the way, Chris is giving us the day 818 days.

33:05

All right. And I have to bust on him 818 days or 819 days before he starts working at Striving for Eternity running our blogging and podcasting.

33:15

I keep putting it out there. If I say it enough times, maybe it'll convince him and he'll believe it's true.

33:21

He's got a better hat though. I think that what you're going to see is it's not so much microchips that they're using to track the vaccine passports.

33:29

But these things that like everybody has a smartphone. I was going to say everybody's got a smartphone and look, has anybody ever got on Facebook and after you have a conversation about something you need to buy, it shows up on Facebook or it shows up?

33:45

It does because they're listening. They don't need to have this injection.

33:51

But more to the point, it's not a microchip this is going to be. This is going to be something wholly different.

33:57

It's a religious item. If you study that section in Revelation, this is a religious issue.

34:04

And they worshipped the image of the beast. They worshipped the image through the taking of the mark.

34:11

It's a religious issue. Yeah. And part of the thing. Oh, look at this from Melissa.

34:16

Chris, you need to work for Andrew. There you go. I love Melissa. That's wonderful. Absolutely.

34:24

So what you end up seeing with this though is if you don't know, the latest iOS release allows you to put your

34:35

COVID passport on there so that it has a QR code that people can scan. So the whole idea of a microchip and things like that.

34:44

One of the things we have to be concerned with is we don't want to interpret the scripture from the movies in the 80s or the series or things like that.

34:56

There's a lot of people that have concluded that the mark of the beast will be a microchip, but that's not in scripture.

35:03

Could it be? I don't know. Maybe it could be. But how's it going to get its battery?

35:09

There's issues, I think, even with that, but there's people that made that conclusion. We don't know what that's going to be yet, and so we can't be dogmatic on these things is all

35:21

I'm saying. Yeah. So let's look at his third edit here. Or did you have something more you were going to say?

35:28

No, actually, I was hoping you would jump into that because I do want to address one thing he did say.

35:34

Yeah. So edit three continued. So this next paragraph,

35:41

I am saying that I believe that the vaccine passport is the most promising candidate the world has ever seen to be the mark of the beast.

35:52

I also believe that the Earth is slightly under 6 ,000 years old. I think the 6 ,000 year mark is most likely when the millennium of Jesus ruling in New Jerusalem begins.

36:06

Way off topic. I just want to suggest that there has never been more obvious than times.

36:15

I am not running around with a sign that says, quote, the end is nigh, unquote, but I have cardboard and Sharpies.

36:24

So first off, Ronald, I get the sense of humor in this. It's sometimes hard to read emotion into things.

36:29

Sometimes people read too much emotion into what people type. That I'm clearly seeing is humor, and I appreciate the humor.

36:36

I have the cardboard and Sharpies. I can go do that. Right there, I kind of get endeared toward him. But one of the things

36:42

I see with this is, you know, in Paul's day, he thought the end was near.

36:49

Yeah. He writes that to the Thessalonians, that they really thought it was close.

36:56

And I think... Did you guys realize that... I'm sorry. I was going to piggyback on what you just said.

37:03

Did you guys realize that the Reformation writers, during the time of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther and Zwingli and all those guys, they identified the papacy as the

37:12

Antichrist. They said the Pope is the Antichrist. They believed that they were living in the end times and that he was going to force upon them, that what he was forcing on them was the mark of the beast.

37:25

Adolf Hitler was named. Benito Mussolini was named. All candidates to be the Antichrist. Because what he just said here was,

37:33

I also believe that the earth is slightly more than 6 ,000 years ago old. I'm going to go back a little bit more.

37:38

And I just want to suggest that there has never been a more obvious end time.

37:46

I don't know what we're going to say. Every single person throughout history has believed that they were in that time.

37:56

They thought they were in that time. Now here's where I want to jump in and say something about the statement he makes after that.

38:07

So if you want to read it, that's fine. This is deadly serious and I'm sorry. Yeah, let's wait to get to that then.

38:13

Because I want to deal with what he says here. First of all, it's good that he believes the earth is about 6 ,000 years old.

38:18

I would actually say it's a little over 6 ,000 years. I wouldn't say under. I don't know if what's affecting them is, hey, 7 ,000 years should be a magical number because it's seven and therefore it should be 6 ,000 years and this thousand year kingdom.

38:34

I don't know if that's what he's getting at. I think the earth is somewhere between 6 ,000 to 10 ,000 years old.

38:40

What do I base that on? I base that on genealogies and scripture, assuming, looking at Genesis 1 with this beginning of creation, looking at the days of Adam to his children,

38:54

Noah, Abraham, and so on and so on until we get to a point where we can date that.

38:59

When we look at that, I think it's slightly over 6 ,000 years right now.

39:06

According to Jewish calendar, we are under 6 ,000. Go look at the

39:13

Jewish calendar. I think we're at 5 ,800 years or something. That's supposed to be from the day of creation. But they didn't start that till after.

39:21

Really what he's asking here, I guess, is can the vaccine passports be the forerunner of the

39:28

Mark of the Beast? I guess my answer to that is anything could be the forerunner of the Mark of the Beast. We're not going to know that until we see the

39:35

Mark of the Beast. I got good news for everybody. Guess what? Even if you're

39:40

Post Mill and Dat and all that good stuff, you're not going to be here. It won't matter.

39:46

You're not going to be here. But put your faith in Christ because the rest of this is not going to affect us. Actually, you raise an interesting question

39:52

I haven't really asked. If there's any amillennialists who are watching, I want to jump in.

39:58

I have a serious question that I'm just curious of. What do amillennialists do with the Mark of the

40:03

Beast? Because they think that the 1 ,000 -year kingdom is figurative, we're in it already.

40:10

It's the time period we're in. I'm curious how they would interpret all this stuff with the

40:17

Mark of the Beast. That's a serious question. If you happen to have anyone who may be out there that's amillennial and has an answer, come on in to ApologeticsLive .com.

40:27

Join us. Maybe you can help me learn some more about amillennialism. Okay. Before he gets his

40:36

Sharpies and cardboard out— I like that. That's funny. Yeah. Let's continue on.

40:42

He says, It is far too late to call this a conspiracy theory. This is deadly serious, and I'm sorry, but Christian organizations that are pushing the vax are doing so without any critical thinking.

40:58

I see the recipe of the vaccine by Christians or the insistence that any other

41:07

Christian receive it be an act of cowardice. I will never change my mind on that.

41:14

Okay. Let's ask the question. Since I took the vaccine, am I a coward? No, you're a coward for other reasons,

41:22

I'm sure. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And that goes back to the point of Ronald, I believe it is.

41:35

Oh, hold on. Hold on. Look at this. Look at this. Look who's in the backstage there. The man, the myth, the legend himself.

41:42

There he is! Captain America. Oh, look at him. Hey, handsome.

41:48

Where's that hat at? Hold on. Hold on. One of the voices of Voice of Reason Radio has arrived.

41:59

Well, I mean, he posted for everybody. He's like, I got this hat. Look at this new cool hat. And I'm like, well, you got to show it off.

42:06

Yeah, I can tell from the picture what's on your little... It's a football.

42:11

No, it's a logo. It's put out by Pilgrim's Coffer.

42:17

It says we preach Christ and Him crucified. Yeah, crucified. Well, neat. Yeah, that's good.

42:23

I stole the hat on. So are you here to answer my amillennial question? No. I was going to say, no, he's not.

42:30

No, he's not. Well, I will say that these days I do identify far more amillennial, but that's an area that I still have a lot of study before I even remotely consider being comfortable with that discussion.

42:44

I'm going to make you talk to Michael Vlock. No, that's okay. That's okay.

42:53

Oh, man. So here we go. Here we go. What's that Joanne said there? What's that? What's this that Joanne said?

43:00

My favorite sentence is, Andrew, your soul and Justin's soul are my primary concern.

43:08

We should be more concerned about with the others and their own soul.

43:15

We haven't gotten to that line yet, Joanne. She's reading ahead. Oh, she's reading ahead. Yeah. I'm not even to that point yet because...

43:22

Yeah. And my point here is... Wait, you keep talking over me. Go ahead. Well, I was talking first.

43:28

You talked over me, but that's okay. So my whole issue is, you know,

43:35

Ronald, I think it is, right? I keep forgetting. Okay. So, Ronald, how is it an act of cowardice to do what

43:44

Chris just said on his hat? We preach Christ and Him crucified. The whole point is

43:50

I'm not going to sit in my home and just die of old age. I'm going to do what

43:56

I've got to do to get out to be able to share the gospel. Look, I want to make it clear. I spent almost four years trying to recover from a surgery and then another year recovering from the surgery to fix that one.

44:09

Andrew knows all about it. Andrew knows how bad it was. Okay. But I did everything I could to share the gospel with everybody

44:15

I could. And I'm not trying to brag. But for me, this right here kind of tweaks me a little bit.

44:26

And I'm going to go share the gospel with anybody I can. And if I have to take the vaccine, like Andrew just said, if I take the vaccine to go do it, okay, that's fine.

44:35

And I think the thing here is, let me be really clear for Ronald or maybe anyone else that's struggling with this.

44:42

There are more than one reason why someone may get a vaccine. Okay. It may not be because they're giving in to the dark side.

44:53

Like I said, when Trump was the one proposing the vaccine, there were a bunch of people that were behind it.

44:59

You know, there were people who, when Trump was doing it, saying, hey, he's cutting out.

45:06

And others were saying he's cutting out all the testing. You know, it's

45:11

I think that this has become a political issue. And what we're trying to do is not address it as a political issue here.

45:20

And so I think the issue is that we have to make an understanding here that he's saying this is, you know, it's far too late to call this a conspiracy theory.

45:31

There are those who are saying it's conspiracy. There are those who say it's not. The reality is there's different reasons why people would get the vaccine.

45:40

And so I think we have to do what we have to do for folks that may agree with Ronald is ask the question, why did you get a vaccine?

45:52

If someone got the vaccine, why did they get it? Is it sinful to get a vaccine because you need to for your job?

46:00

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but that's a question. That doesn't mean you're giving in to the dark side.

46:09

It's you may need to do it. Some people are going to stand up and fight over it.

46:15

Some are going to fight over it over the mandate. But guess what? There's a lot of people that got vaccinated so they can go to work when it wasn't mandated.

46:23

So that's not part of the mandate now. So that becomes the thing we have to we just have to be fair with.

46:32

We have to look at why people did what they did and not assign a motive to them.

46:38

One of the things that we have to really, really, really be careful with is assigning motives to people.

46:44

Now, if someone tells you, you know, I got the vaccine because I wanted to get the vaccine so I could buy and sell things.

46:53

Okay. Then you know that that's why they did it. Yeah. You've got a problem there. If they're saying I got the vaccine because I have some health concerns.

47:01

And earlier I was very nervous and, and I didn't get COVID. And so taking the vaccine would give me some of the antibodies so that if I get

47:08

COVID, I will, I will not suffer as badly as I could have with my other health issues.

47:15

Totally different reason. Right. And so, you know, I, I'm, I may not give as many things like answers to things that people might want or is it this or is it that, because I can't answer.

47:28

I just can't answer. I don't know everybody's what, what their medical situation is, nor do

47:35

I need to, you know, I don't know what their, what their reasons are. You know, there's some people who are being forced right now.

47:43

You take, you get the vaccine or you have to get tested some weekly, some biweekly. I know one person has tested every day to be able to go in the office.

47:54

Okay. Now one thing to point out too on this, while everybody's talking about, Oh, the vaccine mandates, vaccine mandates, what's going on.

48:01

You have Virginia that just turned Republican because they said, no, they're not going to live up with this.

48:07

They're done with it. You have people that are saying, and I'm not saying Republicans. I think it was more than just,

48:14

I think they said. It wasn't just that. I think more what it probably was was what's going on in the education system.

48:21

That's part of it. But the mandates is part of it. And what I'm saying is, is there are, there are political and, and even even legal fights that are being had to stop this from happening.

48:36

Who's to say that, you know, that crazy old guy up in the white house that we need to be praying for a whole lot that, that, that, you know, he's going to win the day and force everybody to come under his.

48:49

The reality is there's a, there's a ton of court cases that are coming up right now. And we don't know how they're going to have their now.

48:56

So Christie of anything. Yeah. Just I think one of the things that I keep seeing and I hear it in, in, in the message you guys are going through here and you, you hit it early, very early on.

49:10

Andrew was it's the issue of the conflation of taking a vaccine with the mandate itself.

49:19

And we have been watching this over and over again, as this has become, you're both right.

49:25

This should not be a political issue. It should be a public health issue depending on, and each person should with informed consent, be deciding how best to proceed.

49:35

The problem is, is that it has become a political issue because you have people Andrew, as you rightly said.

49:41

And so did you Justin, that this has become the means by which they are seeking to force certain political agendas.

49:48

Okay. So that's where we're at. Yeah. The problem has become, is that because it is a political issue, that's the only view that we're taking.

49:58

If you take the vaccine, you've caved. If you've taken, if you've not taken the vaccine, you're a

50:03

Trump supporter, you're, you're an anti -vax, whatever. And so in this particular instance, what you have is an individual who is equating the idea that if you have voluntarily taken the vaccine, you have jumped into the camp that is fully supportive of mandates and the damage that those mandates will do.

50:23

And as Christians, that ought not be the thing. We should not automatically assume that because a fellow

50:31

Christian makes a choice that we don't agree with in this matter, that they have made a political decision.

50:38

You guys made reference to testing, and I'll just give it, and I know some people already know this. When my state said state employees either have to have a vaccine or test every week,

50:48

I wasn't a very happy camper about that. I was pretty vocal about it and eventually decided, you know what?

50:56

Because I care about my family and because I want to provide for my family, I'm not going to take the vaccine, but I will go through the testing so that I can maintain my employment and provide for my family.

51:08

That was, that was what I did through prayer, through talking with my family, talking to my pastors, and that was the decision maker for me.

51:15

It wasn't so I could buy or sell. It wasn't so I could make a political statement. It was so that I could honor

51:20

God and care for my family, and so I submitted to the testing. I, thinking that I would, you know, fellow

51:27

Christians would recognize the difficulty of such a decision and why it was frustrating.

51:33

When I posted that, I did not expect the pushback that I got, and I got called a Nazi. I got called a

51:40

Jew who had compromised and took the star. I was called a Nazi soldier who – or compared to a

51:46

Nazi soldier who killed Jews to provide for his family. I was called a coward. I was called everything under the sun because I decided that the wisest thing

51:56

I could do in caring for my family was go ahead and do the test. And obviously, as we are watching the barrel of the gun of this administration being pointed now at businesses, you could be rest assured that as a state employee, the next step is going to be take the jab.

52:13

So now I have to take that. I have to take that decision and apply for the exemptions if I can.

52:20

What if I can't, etc.? And so where Christians are, I think, are lining up on this.

52:26

I think there are valid reasons to be concerned about the political ramifications of these mandates.

52:35

And I think wherever we have the ability to stand against it, to encourage our elected leaders to fight against it, to file lawsuits against it, by all means, do so.

52:44

But don't assume that a Christian who simply says I've got to keep a job, or in your case,

52:51

Justin, I want to be on this earth a little bit longer so I can proclaim the gospel, and they take that.

52:56

We've got to quit treating them as if they have jumped down the barrel and imbibed the

53:03

Kool -Aid of the leftist apologetics, or excuse me, politics. And that's what's happening is you have individuals like this gentleman here who have equated the mandate with the vaccine itself.

53:16

And any person, no matter their justification, they are saying if you do this, you have acquiesced, and you are imbibing of this terrible, evil regime.

53:27

And honestly, I cannot think of a more offensive thing to say to a fellow Christian who has, on their own conscience and through prayer and consideration, made a decision what is best for them or their family.

53:40

To tell them that they are acquiescing to the mark of the beast or whatever you want to refer to it, that is – that goes right back to, well, how dare you not eat meat?

53:51

How dare you eat meat that applies to idols or the other way around? We are binding one another's consciences over a political issue and our fear that this somehow ties to the book of Revelation.

54:05

Yeah, and that's the thing is you have a faulty view going on. You have this idea.

54:12

Guys, I'm going to say this again. We don't live in this world. We better not be. We're in this world, but we're not of it.

54:19

They'll say, we're supposed to have our focus upon an eternal perspective, attacking one another because of race or creed or whatever, things like that, attacking one another because we've taken this position.

54:42

Chris just said it. He has to take a job. Andrew says it. He has to take a job. And if the boss comes along and says, you take this job or you're fired and you can't provide for your family anymore, what does the scripture say about those that don't provide for their families?

54:59

And so you have to take that into consideration rather than looking for the straw man argument and saying, oh, if you don't do it my way, you're not a

55:07

Christian. Yeah. Yeah. And so we got to be careful of that. And so,

55:13

I mean, the thing we have to realize is, you know, and I think folks, maybe this is coming through there. A big part of this discussion is the differentiation between COVID vaccines and the

55:25

COVID and the vaccine mandates, right? The vaccine is a personal decision based on many factors, such as medical conditions, the science, one that we're going to bring up because someone asked the question, the fetal cell lines, et cetera.

55:39

And the vaccine mandate is an issue of freedom, not science.

55:44

So there's a difference. So with that, I mentioned, I'm going to say that someone had said it. So here's what

55:51

Marlene says. What about fetal cell lines? Another reason for me. So there's two things for me to put out and consider with this.

55:59

Let me try to give the different arguments that are made for this so that people have maybe more information to examine this and think about it.

56:10

Now, some I've seen, I saw actually a list of drugs that I haven't, and I have not checked these myself.

56:18

Things like Tylenol and all these others that also use some of the same fetal cell lines, cell lines that go back to the 70s.

56:27

So now the question becomes, yes, that technology was used once. Is it being, is it being used in what people are getting?

56:35

No, it was, it might've been used in what was in the original research. Okay. Now there's differences that you see there.

56:43

So you're going to need to weigh through is what you're taking the result of an aborted child.

56:51

Because remember, yeah, and then this is the fetal cell line versus just having stem cells, right?

56:57

Because you have adult stem cells as well. When you look at it, the thing is, is are there other drugs that we would have to then not take?

57:09

And hey, I don't care if that's, if your position is, you're not taking it because it's of the fetal cells, then find out everything else.

57:17

And we should be consistent. All right. My only thing is to say, don't make an argument.

57:24

One of the things I'm not happy with, I'm not happy with the number of people who are applying for religious exemptions that are not religious.

57:33

Yeah. Don't have a belief at all in what they're actually writing. They just know that this will work for a religious exemption.

57:40

If you're taking a religious exemption, do it because that's what you believe. You know what?

57:45

Another thing you need to consider in all this discussion, and I don't want to go down the rabbit trail too far to try to stay on topic with this.

57:52

We got enough here. But if you think about this, how many people are you listening to and what's their affiliation from the beginning with this thing?

58:01

What have they been saying? I'm going to tell you what I noticed when Trump came out with, we're going to do a vaccine.

58:08

We're trying to work on this and get this vaccine. What I noticed is you had everybody coming out of the woodwork trying to get on national television and every other form of media saying, oh, it's the devil.

58:22

It's whatever. It's got all this stuff in it. And we heard fetal cell. We heard all of this stuff from the left.

58:29

And the right was saying, no, it has nothing to do with that. And then all of a sudden we switch it over when somebody stole the election.

58:37

And you switch it over. And yeah, I said it. It just keeps coming out.

58:43

I don't know why I can say one. I say this. I was when Trump did that. I was a little bit nervous with it.

58:50

I was concerned with something like a vaccine that we cut the corners. We that we might cut out testing.

58:56

I was concerned with that. You know, it was a thing where I was just like, you know,

59:03

I wasn't sure where to be. I did notice the political side of it.

59:08

But to get back to what this guy is saying, Ronald, is he's saying that at the end of this, he says,

59:14

I will never change my mind on this. And so that concerns me,

59:20

Ronald. Look, let me just say this. And for anyone else, we have positions we hold to.

59:28

We should be convinced by scripture and evidence. Now, in a case like this, okay, there's not scripture that directly speaks to this.

59:35

But evidence. We should look at some evidence and see. Right. And if the evidence is wrong, then we should want to change.

59:44

Yeah. I'm hoping and in all honesty, with some of these things that are being brought up,

59:50

I'm hoping to change your mind. I'll be really clear and upfront. I'm hoping to convince you that this is not the mark of the beast.

59:56

And I don't think it's the forerunner to the mark of the beast. Right. So that's something I'm hoping to change in your thinking.

01:00:03

So he says here, continuing on, let me be clear about something. This is not about the

01:00:10

Vax. This is about the reason for this Vax. The absolute untested nature of vaccines is not my concern.

01:00:19

The fact that I know perfectly healthy people who drop dead two days after receiving vaccines is not what

01:00:31

I am so concerned about. The fact that the government overreached isn't my biggest concern.

01:00:39

These are valid concerns, but they are not my primary. So, okay. I mean, I think I agree they're big concerns.

01:00:45

He's saying they're not primary. But then he says this, and this is what Joanne brought up earlier, right? Andrew, your soul and Justin's soul are my primary concern.

01:00:54

So I'm going to stop there and just say, this is where I, again, I get confused. If you're saying that the vaccination is not a salvific issue.

01:01:06

Then why would you put that in there? Yeah. Why? I don't understand why he's concerned for my soul or your soul for the position we may take on vaccinations.

01:01:15

Yeah. Right? And again, maybe I'm reading into that. So I'm trying to be clear with this.

01:01:21

I'm sure I'm going to get a four -page response. I'm not looking forward to that.

01:01:28

I'm hoping to put this to rest. And I'm trying to answer all the things so we could just put this to rest and have it resolved.

01:01:35

But he then goes on to say, now, there's just one thing that upsets me about what you said.

01:01:43

You were quick to say, I am not saved. I am not a saved Christian. And I need to repent, even though you do not agree with Justin's position.

01:01:53

Andrew, you said that the fact that you disagree with Justin does not mean that you question his

01:02:03

Christianity. But yet, that is precisely what you did to me.

01:02:09

No, it's not. Hold on. No, no, no. Let's finish. Go ahead. I want to get the context.

01:02:15

We don't. Yes, sir. Okay. So let me reread it. But that is precisely what you did to me.

01:02:20

Do I realize you did this in the spirit of defending a friend?

01:02:28

And I get that. I pray that if it is truly the case that you disagree with Justin on this matter, that you would discuss this more with Justin rather than calling me unsaved for being the one who brought it up.

01:02:43

I did so under the rubric of 1 Corinthians 2 15.

01:02:51

Justin, I'm going to ask you to look that up so you can read that. Which you alluded to judging me.

01:02:58

I also did it under the rubric of Matthew 18 15 to 17. And I'll bring that one up when we're done.

01:03:06

I admit to being callous, rude, and even mean spirited.

01:03:11

But I don't. That really shocked Chris there. We got the reaction. No, I admit to being being callous, rude, and even mean spirited.

01:03:21

But I don't admit that I was wrong about the vaccines. I wholeheartedly apologize to Justin and to your show for my attitude and for the condemning language

01:03:31

I used. My behavior was out of line. And I am more than willing to admit that.

01:03:38

If you want to block me for that, fine. But I just want to make it clear that I did not say that Justin was not saved.

01:03:48

I did not insist that Justin repent. My tact was wrong. But I see iron sharpening iron and didn't use the most insulting of accusations with people who

01:04:02

I know are Christians. So I want to address some of this. Could you just read the 1st Corinthians 2 15?

01:04:09

Absolutely. So in 1st Corinthians 2 15, it says, but he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

01:04:21

OK, and the Matthew 18 passage that he was referring to is basically about church discipline, how we deal with church discipline.

01:04:28

So a lot, excuse me, in here that let me deal with. And this is what I started the show off with is the fact that he's saying he did not call

01:04:37

Justin unsaved. Now, what I was doing was and I'll admit he's right.

01:04:43

I was defending a friend. But one of the things is I'm not going to defend a friend if they're wrong.

01:04:50

Yeah, if I felt Justin was wrong, I would go to him privately. Now, this is one of the things also to realize.

01:04:56

If I have opportunity to go to someone privately, I try to do that. I mean, there's some people who

01:05:01

I don't know them privately. Maybe we address on the show. We've done different shows about different people who I can't speak to privately.

01:05:08

And so, OK, that's that's the case. Give me a favor.

01:05:17

Pull up the audio of me in the hospital. Why? Because that was me talking to Andrew.

01:05:29

This is the first surgery I had, and I honestly thought I was going to die out of it.

01:05:35

Why do we do this? I'm just I'm just playing around. But it just reminded me of that.

01:05:42

This is Andrew. I called him. I the medication I was on,

01:05:47

I didn't even know what I was doing. And but I called Andrew because I care about Andrew. He's a friend of mine.

01:05:53

Even before we even thought about doing a show together or anything. And I know he thought he thought

01:05:59

I was out of my mind, which I was. It was the medication. But but I mean, I was I was one step away from death's door.

01:06:06

Yeah. And that's what I've been dealing with for five years of trying to recover from this. And four and a half years, something like that, trying to recover from it.

01:06:16

And but I want to I want to point this out. I pray that if you truly if it is truly the case that you disagree with Justin on this matter, that you will discuss this more with Justin rather than calling me unsaved.

01:06:28

What does that mean? Well, OK, so what I think what he's I think what he's saying there and try to be fair with.

01:06:33

You know, I think what he said, what I think he's implying is that I was defending you over truth. You're saying that you're like, you know,

01:06:41

I think the thing is, if he wasn't calling you unsaved. If he wasn't if that's like this, it's kind of hard.

01:06:52

Because because what's happening is he's saying he's then saying things that seem to imply that he's he's, you know, that he has to be saying that you're.

01:07:03

That it was a salvation issue like that, that this is where I keep struggling with this, because the reason

01:07:10

I said that I think he was not saved is because he was it seemed to me. I am saying that from last week's perspective,

01:07:18

I know he's correcting this and I'm going to change that. Right. But from last week, I thought he was saying that Justin wasn't saved because he took the vaccine.

01:07:26

And if he's saying that, then then I get in the position of saying, OK, you're adding to the gospel.

01:07:32

Yeah. And that's why I was saying it wasn't over the vaccination issue. It was over the gospel issue.

01:07:40

And that's where I do think it was different that if he was saying you're not saved because you took the vaccine, but I'm saying he's not saved.

01:07:46

I don't think it's exactly the same because I think that what I was addressing was the issue of the gospel adding to the gospel.

01:07:54

Yeah. Yeah. Now, I just want to emphasize here that what is very clear in this is is going to be the fact that, you know, he he admits to wrongdoing.

01:08:09

I've already apologized for saying that if he didn't say that you were not saved. OK, I was wrong there.

01:08:15

I want to also highlight and this is where I get a lot of it. Look, folks, if you say right now you want to earn my respect,

01:08:22

I'll tell you how to easily earn my respect when you're wrong and admit it and repent and apologize.

01:08:28

That that's something then. So Ronald has has earned my respect and what he says here, he's admitting the way he spoke.

01:08:35

He's saying it was wrong. He's asking your apology. Right. And you've already forgiven him earlier.

01:08:41

But this is the second time he's asked forgiveness. You're apologized. Yeah. And so I want us to recognize that.

01:08:49

Yeah, we can't brush over. Here is here is someone professing to be a

01:08:54

Christian who is asking for forgiveness, recognizing what he's done wrong. OK, and I think that's what that should be the mark of a

01:09:04

Christian. Right. You know, and he's saying like iron sharpening iron.

01:09:09

And I hope that's what this show is going to do, not just for him, but for there's many who hold similar positions.

01:09:15

And I hope that we could be iron sharpening iron in that way. Yeah. OK, but but to to to say, look, when it comes to the vaccine, there's some people who medically are being told by doctors, you cannot get it.

01:09:32

There's others who are being told you should get it. They're doing what their doctor is suggesting. They're looking at their doctor for advice.

01:09:40

You know, I have a doctor who has told me that I should not get it because of different medical conditions.

01:09:49

Right now, whether I listen to the doctor or not, that becomes my decision. But what am

01:09:54

I going to do? I'm going to listen to what my doctor says. I have to decide whether I think that there, you know, are they being influenced by the

01:10:03

CDC? You know, like there's there's so many more things thrown in this that it makes it harder for us to make decisions on this.

01:10:11

But I do want to look at this next line that he says, because this is now the third time he's going to apologize to you,

01:10:17

Justin. And so I want to highlight it as I just scroll up here. I do apologize to Justin, but that doesn't change what the vaccine is.

01:10:28

I hope that Justin does not get involved with a vaccine passport because I believe that is where the true mark of the beast lies.

01:10:35

Now, here would be the thing. I think my understanding of the mark of the beast is really clear.

01:10:41

I believe that anybody who takes the mark of the beast will know that's what it is.

01:10:48

It's not going to be a bait and switch. It's not going to be a vaccine passport that, oh, surprise, it's really the mark of the beast.

01:10:54

I believe, like you said, Justin, it's going to be a religious thing that people are going to know what they are doing.

01:11:00

OK, now let's get myself in hot water here. Chris wants to say something. Yeah. Come on,

01:11:07

Chris, let's hear it. Let him talk and then I'll say. So to agree with John MacArthur on something that so many people have blown up with,

01:11:17

I do believe that someone might be able to, as an unsafe person, get the mark of the beast and God may still be able to save them.

01:11:24

And if that's the case, OK, that can happen. I don't see anything in scripture that says someone who sees what the mark of the beast knows what the mark of the beast is takes the mark of the beast and then gets saved.

01:11:36

I don't I don't know that they can't. I just don't know any scripture that says they can't. So I'll open that can of worms.

01:11:44

But go ahead, Chris. OK, now you're safe on whatever you say, because whatever you say, because, yeah, that's already being tweeted out,

01:11:54

I'm sure. So it's always heard at this point. This is

01:12:00

OK. This is one of those things that with – and I come from premillennial, pre -tribulation rapture, dispensational…

01:12:10

You mean biblical? You mean biblical, right? OK, stop. I'm saying this as someone who knows whereof he speaks, at least as far as the theology behind it.

01:12:21

I'm working on where I'm at. That aside, what bugs me and just absolutely infuriates me at times are the – sorry,

01:12:34

Joanne. Next letter will be about Chris's cough. I'm sorry. I had a mild touch of COVID.

01:12:41

I can't get rid of the cough. He's in trouble now. Now you have natural immunity. So, OK.

01:12:49

Within the dispensational, premillennial dispensational mindset, number one, we need to quit using it as a gospel or as a

01:13:00

Bible seek and find… … where we're looking in the headlines, looking at current events and going, oh, look, prophecy, prophecy, prophecy, prophecy.

01:13:08

Stop. Number one, stop. That is not what prophecy is given for. It is so that when we see these things begin to unfold, we understand that our redemption draws nigh, that we are in Christ, and that's what we are – it is for that.

01:13:22

It is to reveal God's history has been revealed in advance, and we get to see it unfolding, and we get to give glory to God, and we get to call people to Jesus Christ.

01:13:31

That's what it's for. We need to quit doing this. Quit using the Bible as a seek and find.

01:13:38

Stop it. Number two, if you are a premillennial tribulation rapture dispensationalist, why on earth are you looking for the mark of the beast you're not supposed to be here when it comes around?

01:13:54

I said that. I said it. Stop. Stop doing this.

01:14:00

Quit looking for something that's not going to be here if you believe the church is taken up.

01:14:07

If you think that's what's going to happen, you need to stop using the Bible and looking.

01:14:13

At one point, we thought it was credit cards. At another point, we thought it was the debit card. Another time, we thought it was microchips.

01:14:20

Now, we think it's the vaccine. Now, we think it's the mandate. And then every time it proves not to be, what's the next thing?

01:14:28

Well, it's the forerunner for. Everything has been a forerunner for. This has to stop.

01:14:37

We have got to quit analyzing the current events of the day, hoping to find a nugget of something that might be prophetic, and then using it to club the living daylights out of fellow

01:14:48

Christians. And that's what's happening. What bugs me with what this means –

01:14:54

Preach, man. Just go ahead. Just give it all you got. Sorry. So here's what bugs me.

01:14:59

The reason that he writes this is he says he's concerned about your souls.

01:15:07

He doesn't believe this is the mark of the beast, but he believes it is basically leading to the mark of the beast by his own statements.

01:15:14

And that because Justin is willing to take the vaccine, because Andrew is not willing to call him out for taking the vaccine and is willing to say if you believe someone is doing this and that you are adding to the gospel, that that would put you in the camp of not being a

01:15:32

Christian. He's now concerned about your souls. Even if he's not calling you unsafe, he's concerned about your souls.

01:15:39

What he is implying from what I can hear and see in this letter is that he believes you are compromising with the word of God because this is so clearly either a forerunner to or the direct line to the mark of the beast, and you as Christians aren't standing against it.

01:15:57

I'm sorry. That is abuse of your own theological paradigm because everything that has happened up to this point, every single time we as Christians jumped into the water and said mark of the beast.

01:16:10

Here's the antichrist. Here's the ten nations. It has failed miserably. We have not learned our lesson, and here we are again attempting to take something that is culturally happening and making it without any real evidence to the fact that we have now said this is prophetic, and any

01:16:27

Christian that denies this, I'm worried about you. This has got to stop.

01:16:33

You need to understand your scriptures. You need to understand your theological positions. You need to understand why you believe what you believe, and you have got to quit applying these theological positions wrongly and then attacking other

01:16:46

Christians for doing so. This is where, as Christians, we have to stand up and we say we stand on the word of God.

01:16:55

We stand on it fully and completely. We understand it, and before we use it to club someone upside the head with it, we know what it actually says and how it applies.

01:17:04

If you believe there's a mark of the beast that is actually going to be an actual mark that is actually an oath of allegiance to the beast that's an oath of allegiance to the religious system and to the world system, then the idea that you take a vaccine because you want to keep your job, you want to proclaim the gospel, or any other such thing, and that that compromises with scripture is an abuse of your own theological system.

01:17:27

And it has got to stop. This is wrong. Okay, so everyone's saying preach, preach,

01:17:34

Chris, preach. You forced me to have to do this. You forced me to have to do this. We're going to have to play a

01:17:42

Bob Newhart. I admit that I'm speeding this up to about a minute, one and a quarter speed, but here's a woman coming in for counseling on the

01:17:53

Bob Newhart show. I think this covers everything you just said. Here you go. Yes, come in.

01:18:00

I'm just washing my hands. I'm Catherine Bigman. Janet Carlyle referred me. Yes, yes, that's me.

01:18:11

Should I lay down? Oh, no, no, no, we don't. We don't do that anymore. Just, just have a seat. And let me tell you a bit about I, I charged $5 for the for the first five minutes.

01:18:22

And then absolutely nothing after that. That sounds great.

01:18:28

Too good to be true, as a matter of fact. Well, I can, I can almost guarantee you that, that our session won't last for the full five minutes.

01:18:35

Now, any insurance bill, you have to pay in cash or by check.

01:18:42

Wow, okay. And I don't make change. All right. Go. Go.

01:18:53

Oh, tell me, tell me about the problem that you wish to address. Oh, okay. Well, I have this fear of being buried alive in a box.

01:19:04

I just start thinking about being buried alive and I begin to panic. Has, has anyone ever, ever tried to, to bury you alive in a box?

01:19:13

No, no, but truly thinking about it does make my life horrible. I mean, I can't go through tunnels or be in an elevator or in a house, anything boxy.

01:19:25

What, what you're saying is you're, you're claustrophobic. Yes, yes, that's it. All right, well, let's go,

01:19:31

Catherine. I'm, I'm going to say two words to you right now. I want you to listen to them very, very carefully.

01:19:37

Then I want you to take them out of the office with you and incorporate them in, into your life. Well, shall

01:19:43

I write them down? No, well, it's just two words. Most, we find most people can, can remember them.

01:19:51

Okay. You ready? Yes. Okay, you're there. Stop it! I'm sorry?

01:20:00

Stop it! Stop it? Yes, S -T -O -P, new word, I -T.

01:20:07

So, what are you saying? You know, it's funny. I, I say two simple words and I cannot tell you the amount of people who say exactly the same thing you're saying.

01:20:17

I mean, this, you know, this is not British, Catherine, this is English. Stop it. So, I should just stop it?

01:20:23

There you go. I mean, you, you, you don't want to go through life being scared of being buried alive in a box, do you?

01:20:28

I mean, that sounds, sounds frightening. Yes. Then stop it! I can't,

01:20:35

I mean, it's been with me since childhood. No, no, we, we, we don't go there. Just, just stop it. So, I should just stop being afraid of being buried alive in a box?

01:20:44

You got it. Good girl. Well, it's only been, it's only been three minutes, so that will be, um, uh, three dollars.

01:20:52

Well, actually, I only have a five, so. Well, I, I don't, I don't make change. Then I, I guess

01:20:58

I'll take the full five minutes. Fine. All right, well, what other problems would you, would you like to address?

01:21:05

Oh, uh, I'm bulimic. I stick my fingers down my throat. Not of some kind?

01:21:14

But I, I'm compelled to. My mom used to call me Zeddy. No, no, no. No, we, we don't go there.

01:21:20

No, we don't go there either. But my parents would say. We definitely don't go there. Just. What, what, what else?

01:21:30

Well, I have self -destructive relationships with men. Stop it! You want to be with a man, don't you?

01:21:37

Yes. Well, then stop it. Don't be such a big baby. I wash my hands a lot.

01:21:48

I wash my hands all the time. There's a lot of germs out there. Yeah, don't, don't, don't worry about that.

01:21:56

Stop it! How are you going to get around? Get in the car and drive. You, you poop.

01:22:02

Stop it! Stop it! What's, what's the problem,

01:22:08

Kat? I don't like this. I don't like this therapy at all. You're just telling me to stop it.

01:22:15

And, and you, and you don't, you don't like that? No, I don't. So you think we're, we're moving too fast, is that it?

01:22:23

Yes. Yes, I do. All right, then let me, let me give you 10 words that I, I think will clear everything up for you.

01:22:30

You want, you want to get a pad and a pencil for this one? All right. Are you ready?

01:22:38

Right here are the 10 words. Stop it or I'll bury you alive in a box! Oh, man.

01:22:50

One of the best bits ever. I'm sorry. I had to, with your, your, your, your...

01:22:58

Just stop it! Someone asked where they can give you their $5.

01:23:11

Oh, okay. Go to strivingforeternity .org. Just donate there.

01:23:18

Oh, I couldn't help that one. That, that was fun. You know, there's, there has to be a good balance of seriousness and humor in this.

01:23:28

You, you got, I mean, seriously, with what you had said that, you know, all that was good and true. Because there is a point where we have to stop it.

01:23:36

And, you know, using something like that from Bob Newhart actually kind of makes the point of what's going on.

01:23:41

People just can't seem to stop it. Right? No. And so, and, and yet sometimes we need to.

01:23:49

You know, so, so let me get back to, as we look at the rest of what he says. Because I think this is now the fourth time he's apologized.

01:23:56

So, you know, I, I want to point out in this, you know, Ronald is trying to be,

01:24:01

I think, very sincere. He says, my, my apology is sincere. That's why I believe it.

01:24:07

Because that's what love does. Love believes all things. I'm going to believe him at his word. And so he says, my apology is sincere because I, I love you and your ministry.

01:24:16

In fact, I've donated anonymously. Well, I don't, didn't know anything about that. Because it was, oh, right, anonymous.

01:24:23

It used to be anonymous. Yeah. Well, no, we don't know how much. It could have been a dollar. Sure, sure, sure.

01:24:30

You know, and, but that is, you know, it could be. But he says. Chris is going to make up for it, though.

01:24:35

Yeah. He's going to give the $3 that. Bob Newhart. Actually, no, Joanne, Joanne, it was

01:24:42

Joanne that said here, where do we send our $5? So, but I'm glad. But, you know, actually, you know, come to think of it.

01:24:49

Thank you, Joanne, because Chris said to send it to Striving for Eternity. And so I guess that means that you want us to know where to send it to Chris.

01:24:57

So I guess Chris is saying he's going to be working at Striving for Eternity. No, she can donate to Striving for Eternity on my behalf.

01:25:05

Okay. So he says that is all.

01:25:10

That's all I will say about that. I'm not looking for accolades. I think what he was saying there is just to say that he's trying to be sincere in the apology that he wants.

01:25:20

And I'm taking it that way. And folks, this is a lesson to learn. If someone tells you something that they that they believe where their position is, what they believe, take them at their word unless there's clear evidence otherwise.

01:25:34

Okay. If I'm saying I'm trying to think of it like an extreme example.

01:25:41

You know, if I say that. I'm trying to think of a good example

01:25:47

I could use of where would be the opposite. I guess I guess if I tell you that, you know,

01:25:55

I don't own any black shirts. And you can see on the screen, I'm wearing a black shirt, right?

01:26:02

Okay. You're going to look at that. Look at the what's you know, look at the evidence. Go, hey, there's something wrong here.

01:26:08

We've done that here with with Ronald's letter as well. Right. We're saying, hey, it's you're saying this.

01:26:13

You're not making this a salvation issue. And yet. It sure looks like it was some of the things you're saying.

01:26:20

So what am I doing? I want to take him at his word, but I'm also going to say, hey, these are some things that look inconsistent. Right. But we can't.

01:26:28

We need to be careful not to assign motives to people. Yeah. Okay. And so that's something, you know,

01:26:38

I should I should put, you know, some comments I'm getting. You guys are not seeing this. This is this show.

01:26:44

I've gotten more text messages from people during the show. Grant, one is saying, you know, one person did say to me, if you all just become post mill, you wouldn't have to worry about the whole

01:26:56

Mark of the Beast thing. How did you get your number? No, it wasn't.

01:27:04

But but another friend is saying classic Newhart. My wife says this is my approach to stupid people.

01:27:12

Stop it. I I cannot deny that I haven't played that clip during counseling sessions.

01:27:23

I admit it. I need to put that clip on my computer at work.

01:27:31

So so moving on with what he has here. He says, what is what this vaccine?

01:27:41

What? I don't even know. Port, portends, portends, portends.

01:27:48

Yeah. Is that should be that pretend maybe? No, it's it's it's the idea of what it what it will do for us in the future.

01:27:56

Oh, OK. Yeah. Word for me. I didn't know it. OK. With vaccine pretends. Andrew needs my glasses, I think.

01:28:03

Actually, no. Wait, hold on. Hold on. Oh, please. Have your glasses here right here.

01:28:11

Hold on. Here we go. These are the

01:28:17

Chris Han holds. I got them. I saw him have these and I was like, these are cool.

01:28:24

Look at this. Oh, yeah.

01:28:29

Yeah. They're great for little readers. And and, you know, when you're traveling, they work really well because they are really small.

01:28:37

Fit in your pocket. I saw him doing this and I was like, I should get with him because when I travel, I don't wear glasses because I don't want to travel with them.

01:28:45

And these are easy to travel with. Although when you put them away, you get your fingerprints on them all the time. That's the. Oh, well,

01:28:52

I've got two pair of those. I admit it. You know, it's first world issue. You know, so.

01:29:01

So, yeah, I do have your glasses. But that aside, you know, the the.

01:29:10

So what he's saying here is what with the vaccine for pain, for pain, for poor, poor, poor or tens or tens is no trifling matter.

01:29:19

And I'm sick to death of people treating it like a joke. That is why

01:29:25

I spoke out of anger. Also, you read two statements that I made because I actually.

01:29:31

Made one of them and went back and edited it to tame it down after I cooled down a bit.

01:29:38

Neither statement was incomplete. The ellipsis at the end was of the one was intentional.

01:29:47

I have no problem admitting to what I said, explaining why there were two statements.

01:29:53

I was furious with Justin. Now I am sorry and pray that he that he will not go any further down this road.

01:30:02

This isn't good. So he has a genuine concern, concern for Justin. That's what I read. And, you know,

01:30:09

I said, like, I don't get how YouTube does it, because I get the you know,

01:30:14

I get this whole thing of when you look at this, you know, YouTube, it shows you a comment and I couldn't find the comment.

01:30:21

So it's because he edited the comment. Oh, hey, it's Google. They don't do things well sometimes. Well, that's their motto.

01:30:28

Oops. Wrong. Your motto. But the thing that you end up seeing here is he's again.

01:30:38

Notice what he's actually saying. He is. He's pointing out. He's acknowledging what he's done wrong.

01:30:46

He's repenting of that. He's apologized for that several times. That was actually why I sent it to you, Justin, and said that we should talk about it, because this is this is a good thing.

01:30:55

Right. And I've had to do the same with what I read into his his comments.

01:31:01

We need to be careful with each other with that. So he says, God bless you. God bless, Justin. Anything you want to say on that paragraph there before we get to the ending of it?

01:31:13

OK. No, I mean, it's. Eve is giving us the very definition here of portent, a sign, a sign or warning of something, especially something momentous or calamitous that's likely to happen.

01:31:31

Now, Pastor Darren is saying here, anger is not a reasonable response to this sort of thing. There is a there is a disagreement, but nothing to be angry about.

01:31:43

And I will I will agree with that and kind of piggyback on that. Just I want you to think about anybody.

01:31:51

And I don't care who you are. One thing to think about is how you handle things as a believer. So we shouldn't be quick to anger.

01:31:59

I mean, the scripture is clear to that we have to be slow to anger. We have to be full of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, meekness, gentleness, kindness and self -control.

01:32:09

Being given over to anger, I'm not going to say leads to the dark side, being given over to anger.

01:32:16

It honestly it shows us a a heart that needs needs to be humbled and needs to to seek forgiveness.

01:32:26

And I'm glad you did. I'm glad you came out and said these things. Some things I will say that you've said on here are very confusing.

01:32:35

And I'm sure that, like Andrew said, we're going to get another another. We will read that one, but that won't be on public.

01:32:44

Guys, it is what it is. But but just having said all that, you know, everybody, we fall down different issues, you know, and when it's not a gospel related issue, even if it is a gospel related issue, as as Darren said, we need to be very careful not to be angry all the time.

01:33:03

Have a reasonable response. You know, you know, we can have a disagreement that doesn't make you anathema.

01:33:09

You know, even even because, you know, my postmill brothers, you know, even they're absolutely wrong and they don't know what they're talking about and they couldn't reach their way out of a paper bag.

01:33:21

That doesn't mean that I don't agree with their brothers. You know, I love you guys.

01:33:30

Responding to that one. All right. Let's see. That'll be true. That'll be true. He'll respond to that one. Yeah, we have.

01:33:35

All right. So let's get on. This is edit number two. And I again, this is where I admit things are.

01:33:44

We saw edit one at the the second line. Then we saw edit three. Now we're seeing edit two.

01:33:51

And so because they're numbered, I don't know. I guess I'm admitting that I'm having difficulty in where the placement is.

01:34:02

And and so what is that that Darren just said? I lost that comment. Here we go. Darren responded.

01:34:08

Yo, well, insulting post mall. I mean, I'm angry.

01:34:16

Darren rokes are at the post office now. What is the postmail guy?

01:34:21

You know, and here's a good thing. Eve is saying the whole conversation has taught me to be careful with how

01:34:28

I react to people's views on both sides of a debate. I'm becoming more moderate. And that's the reason

01:34:35

I wanted to kind of do this tonight. You know, we do projects. We want to we want to address issues, show how to deal with things.

01:34:43

And, you know, we could have a knee jerk reaction responding to comments and be wrong.

01:34:50

Right. Both this listener and I, you know, we're wrong about things.

01:34:55

And OK, you've seen how to handle it then. And I was pure as the wind driven snow. You should. Christine, I wasn't even here for it.

01:35:09

And I know better. Yeah. So edit number two. In the interest of honesty, because I threw this response together rather quickly,

01:35:18

I edited the first two statements. Please don't pull my initial post out of context. I accidentally had written that I was apologizing to Justin per your request.

01:35:28

I did not mean that because, of course, you requested no such thing. My apology is sincere and voluntary.

01:35:36

I meant at I meant the quote at your request, unquote, to be in the second sentence regarding your request to show me where in the

01:35:45

Bible the Bible speaks to to the issue. I just wanted to clear that up. So I think that this is something he meant for way back up.

01:35:54

I don't know why he didn't just edit that. So edit number three continued a bit more.

01:36:01

Two things. So edit number three has had several edits before you go any further on the edit to thing.

01:36:10

Here's one thing I want to point out to everybody, just to make sure that everybody understands when you type things out on the

01:36:17

Internet. This is why I got off Facebook. If you guys haven't noticed, I mean, maybe somebody has somebody hasn't.

01:36:23

Nobody's even missed me. I'm not on Facebook. The only time there's a couple of people, you know,

01:36:30

Chris, I get your stuff. There's a couple of people that I forget it. I may throw in a comment every once in a while.

01:36:36

But the reason I got off Facebook is because it makes you angry. It makes you a person you don't want to be. It causes you in social media land to always want to be bickering and arguing.

01:36:46

And I want to stress this to everybody. Before you hit send, read what you said with a heart towards I'm going to stand before Christ.

01:36:56

And is this what I want him to read? Say that first. Is this what

01:37:01

I want him to read? Because this doesn't have to be a backspace. Clear it.

01:37:09

Clear it. You know, you don't have to say things. There's so many times when I when I said, you know what?

01:37:14

I want to respond. And I go, but I don't have to. I don't have to. Yeah. Yeah.

01:37:21

I like what I like what my buddy Rich says. You don't have to show up to every fight you're invited to. Amen to that.

01:37:28

Yeah. And that's and that's a good thing, you know, to remind ourselves. Right. You know, but, you know, your buddy,

01:37:36

Chris, your buddy, Richard has also said this. Well, I've said this before, and I still stick to it now.

01:37:43

Over the last 10 years off and on, when it comes to ministry versus boxing, boxing is far less violent.

01:37:52

Amen. OK, so there we go. Darren, Darren, he just posted this.

01:38:00

The Bible repeatedly warns us against idle speech. We have to repent of this in social media many times.

01:38:07

And I totally agree. Yeah. And so.

01:38:15

Let's let's get to these last two things. Yes. So this is edit number three, which would have been easier if I like.

01:38:22

I don't know. Maybe I should have edited this for him. But, you know, like so it flowed a little better.

01:38:27

But so he has two two last things for us. He says, one, when I said, quote,

01:38:33

I would not consider a Christian building that part of that is part of a multi religion complex to actually be a

01:38:43

Christian. I would avoid the satanic hive at all costs. Unquote. I was referring to the

01:38:49

Catholic Muslim Jewish complex in the Middle East that you reported on. It had nothing to do with Christians renting space in a building.

01:38:57

I was talking about his, quote, show of unity, unquote, among among religions, none of which are

01:39:06

Christian. I believe that I believe that what you did was search for other comments that I made.

01:39:13

But you could have possibly you couldn't possibly know the context without rewatching the video of the comment was made on.

01:39:22

I think you tried to answer this statement legitimately, but you didn't try to understand my context.

01:39:27

I agree with you. Christians can meet for congregation in a bar if they want to.

01:39:33

My point is that the Catholic Church, Islam and Jewish buildings are complex. Complex together is anathema.

01:39:42

So I don't know if I wasn't misunderstanding. I might have been. I don't even remember the comment.

01:39:47

So sorry. But I do. I don't I personally don't see an issue with renting a

01:39:53

Catholic Muslim or Jewish building if you're renting a church. Why? Because you're still

01:39:59

I don't think you're funding the church. You're because by by the law, if you're paying them as a nonprofit, that money is only to be paid for for utilities, not for profit.

01:40:13

And therefore, if it's not for profit there. I mean, it sounds kind of stupid, but they're not profiting off it.

01:40:20

Right. And so I don't have an issue, especially with a synagogue for a church to rent a synagogue.

01:40:28

Even though we would disagree with the synagogue stance on things because of the fact that I think what you see in the synagogue is you see you in the synagogue.

01:40:41

The fact that they don't use it on Sunday. So it's available.

01:40:47

It's already designed for the what you what you need as a setup and you're not funding them.

01:40:55

You're giving money toward utilities. So I hope I hope that helps.

01:41:02

I hope that that explains it. You know, you may disagree with me and that's fine. You know, we could still disagree.

01:41:09

But, you know, that's that's that number to Jason Lyles model that showed the one way speed of light being consistent with coming toward the earth does does work beautifully with a geocentric universe.

01:41:27

Any of you want to touch that? Right. Geocentric as in geocentric as in the earth is the center of the universe.

01:41:37

Yeah. Like, yeah, I'm not going there. I mean, I don't like if he's holding to that.

01:41:44

And I guess the reason I brought it up last week was because if he's holding to that, a geocentric universe, being that the earth is the center of everything,

01:41:51

I guess my concern is, are you not right? OK, so in line with everything we've discussed about vaccines.

01:41:57

And so this is my concern here. The issue is that not holding to that view that the earth is the center of the universe makes me think you don't really take a good look at science and evaluate science properly.

01:42:16

And therefore, when it comes to the science of vaccines, I'm going to question that. And that's that's why

01:42:21

I made that comment. Eve Franklin, who is the one of the hosts of Are We Just Watching podcast, one of the podcasts on Christian Podcast, he says,

01:42:33

Ugh, misusing Lyle's science. And I think it is.

01:42:39

I think it is, you know, a mistake to be taking what he's he's saying there.

01:42:46

I mean, yeah, if you have a geocentric view of the universe, I think that his view could fit because, you know, if his view is right, it fits with any right, you know, with any view.

01:42:58

Right. So it's kind of like, you know, I just I just don't see, you know, clearly

01:43:06

Jason Lyle does not. Clearly, he does not hold to a geocentric universe.

01:43:12

He does not hold. No, here, Darren is there. Right here, he says,

01:43:19

Jason Lyle, he's he's shrinking. It is not geocentric. He believes it's possible that the

01:43:26

Milky Way is the center of creation. Very different than being geocentric.

01:43:32

And I don't even know, Pastor Darren. I don't know of any talk where he said that either. So just for the record, you know, one thing to consider here to just to throw this in is with Jason Lyle's model, it's been discussed many times and a lot of scientists have looked at it and discussed it.

01:43:54

And as Jason Lyle said, it is they haven't been able to refute it, consistently refute it.

01:44:02

As far as the geocentric universe, trying to throw it in, I see that. I'm sorry, but I see that kind of like a straw man to try to burn up the argument to say, oh, yeah, it only works in that that setting.

01:44:14

No. Hold it. I don't know if he's saying it only works in that setting. I think he's saying that it fits well with the setting.

01:44:21

So let's try to be fair. Do you think he's a geocentricist? Well, I'm guessing

01:44:27

I'm guessing. I'm just guessing by the fact that he put it out there that he is.

01:44:33

And so so let's let's do this. We because we have our special guest who's arrived and now we're going to.

01:44:42

I'm actually right. Folks, you don't you don't understand. Dr. Silvestro has been very patiently sitting in backstage and hasn't put himself and he's he joined a long time ago.

01:44:53

And I was like, OK, he's he's going to go. And I didn't bring him in. I figured he'll come in when he wants to. But I'm like, we're talking vaccines.

01:45:00

I figured he's coming in on that. He's going to weigh in on that. You know, now he's going to weigh in. We talk about geocentric.

01:45:06

I was like, what is it that's going to bring Dr. Silvestro into the front stage?

01:45:12

But welcome, Dr. Anthony Silvestro. Thanks. I was actually watching on YouTube from almost the beginning of the show, too.

01:45:20

And we finally got back to the hotel tonight and got a chance to sit down and get in front of a computer and listen for a while longer.

01:45:27

So I want to just correct a couple of things when it comes to Jason Lyle. He came out with a video old maybe three or four years ago now that talked about the different ways that it's possible for light to travel faster than the quote unquote speed of light.

01:45:41

One of those is the one way directional speed of light being faster. Right. Coming from the light source versus on its return trip.

01:45:48

That's the one I tend to hold to most closely with. But there's another idea that if the

01:45:54

Earth is in the center or close to the center of a gravitational well, meaning it would be the center of the universe or the

01:46:00

Milky Way would be close to the center of the universe. You could also make these calculations to show that light could travel faster because of perspectives of time.

01:46:08

I would tell you to go read articles on that to go a little bit more. So he just posed those to those to his theories.

01:46:14

And there's several others as well that are part of all that. So I just want to make sure we set the record straight on that because Jason has not come out and said that at all.

01:46:24

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think he did. Yeah. Yeah.

01:46:30

And in all the room and all the discussions, I would think Jason Lyle would be the most qualified to discuss what he believes and what he believes based on the evidence, not based on opinions, not based on, you know, oh,

01:46:44

I read this or all that. He's actually looking at the scientific evidence. And so that's the case.

01:46:50

There's folks who don't know who Dr. Jason Lyle is. Dr. Lyle is a he's a, you know, you know, astrophysicist.

01:46:57

He's got his PhD in astronomy, physics. He's also a young earth creationist.

01:47:05

He is part of a group called the Biblical Science Institute. That's an organization he started.

01:47:11

You can go there and get a lot of information and see what he actually believes. But he is a

01:47:16

Christian first and then a scientist. Okay. So his, his views are going to start from a biblical perspective.

01:47:23

I think that's, I don't know this for a fact. Maybe, you know, you may have asked him, but I think the name of his organization is very fitting.

01:47:29

Biblical Science Institute. He starts with the Bible, then looks at science. And I think,

01:47:35

I think even in the name of his organization, he has it. Right. Do things as a presuppositional list, right?

01:47:43

He would, he would say what I think all of us would say here as well, that it's a, you can't do science unless you start with God.

01:47:50

Correct. So, so I think, yeah, his name has a lot of different side meanings to it.

01:47:56

Which is really cool. I will say one other thing about vaccines. I did sit back, just kind of patiently listening to listen to you guys.

01:48:02

I'll, I'll speak about this. Time to go to our sponsor. Which is fine.

01:48:08

That's okay. No, it, you know, I, I think one of the, one of the big issues, and this is one of the things that I've been battling as well.

01:48:16

I mean, for those of you who, who know me, those of you don't, I'm 100 % adamantly opposed to vaccines for a number of reasons, which today's not the day for it.

01:48:27

But not just COVID vaccines, right? Not just COVID vaccines. I'm against all vaccines. I'm against COVID, especially because of the testing that was not completed properly in the beginning.

01:48:36

They destroyed the control groups after two months amidst all kinds of other issues. Having, having said all that what, what really bothers me is

01:48:46

I've got friends in the, you know, people who are known worldwide, who are anti -vaxxers who are going around talking about this as the mark of the beast.

01:48:54

And, and they proclaim to be Christian. They're calling it the mark of the beast and they're destroying any credibility that we have to show the actual issues with these vaccines.

01:49:04

And so we just had, there was a, Epoch times just came out with a, with an article today that talked about how

01:49:11

Pfizer has a whistleblower that was shut, shut down. FDA fired them. They're fired her who talked about the manipulation of data during those trials.

01:49:21

And you're like, and it's just another thing on top of the hundreds of other eyewitness testimonies of problems behind the scenes and the manipulation of everything.

01:49:30

That's the part that I think is so disconcerting for, for a lot of us. Right. And, and so the average person looks at this, who do they trust?

01:49:39

How can they figure out what the truth is anymore? And that, that really is, is, is problematic. Having, having settling and I can talk for hours about that.

01:49:48

It I'm, I'm more disconcerted with how Christians are treating one another in, in all this stuff.

01:49:54

I mean, you know, Justin and I, we, we have huge disagreements on, on the COVID vaccine. I don't look at him any less of a brother as, as I would anybody else that's that is here on camera or, or otherwise

01:50:07

I just, it's just, it's sad that that's, that that's happened. And it's just another thing fracturing the body of Christ.

01:50:14

When, when in the last year and a half, you know, I, we just got done with a prayer meeting at the church

01:50:19

I'm teaching at this Saturday and preaching on Sunday. And, and I made the comment there as well.

01:50:26

The last year and a half, you have people running scared. I mean, not talking church, right? Non -Christians running scared.

01:50:33

Unfortunately, a lot of Christians as well, because of bad theology. We are to have fear as Christians and, and we're not to have fear.

01:50:40

And, and, and in that we should be able to go out and preach the gospel freely and, and, and show people why we shouldn't have fear over, over death.

01:50:47

And what is, what's happened in this, in the last year and a half, the church has gone silent churches have closed.

01:50:53

People have gotten distracted by some of these side issues. It's been really, it's been really sad. On the other side, we have seen churches, solid churches growing because they, they haven't been afraid.

01:51:03

They haven't done this. So there's, you know, we want to be encouraging. We want to say like, look, there's, there's, there's some, there's some bright lights here as well.

01:51:12

But, you know, overall, if, I think the overall message we would have for anybody listening to this show, that I think has been consistent is we can have differing opinions.

01:51:23

We shouldn't be calling someone unsaved. We shouldn't be angry with someone. We shouldn't be calling people out over these issues.

01:51:29

We should try to understand their positions first. Okay. And, and so since Chris Hunhold's put this up here, he said, that's right.

01:51:37

We didn't have a, my pillow break, but don't worry. KT says my pillow getting ready.

01:51:46

It's unfortunately it's not a, my pillow. I wish I had a, my pillow right now. Does everybody feel tired right now?

01:51:52

Do you feel like you need a pillow break? Go to 1 -800 -873 -0176 promo code

01:52:03

SFE for your, my pillow. You know, I actually do have a new,

01:52:09

I have two new products I can report on. Okay. Fuzzy bunny slippers, guys.

01:52:15

I got my slippers. I got the, my slippers. I don't know if Chris is going to give us an update on that, but I also got a, my pillow throw pillow.

01:52:24

The one that like the size that you just picked up, Anthony, I got one of those for, for the couch.

01:52:29

Cause there are times where me and my bride at different times, we'll just get tired and we just take a short nap on the, on the couch.

01:52:35

And now we can nap on a, my pillow on the couch. Okay. I will admit that you, you get the, my pillow and then you have the cover for it.

01:52:44

The cover they have is ugly looking. It's just a Brown. Right. So I think, I think we're going to probably put that in something a little nicer looking, but you know we do have that.

01:52:54

So and then I got the slippers and Chris, have you used your slippers yet? Yeah, I actually used them about a week or so ago.

01:53:04

They're pretty comfortable cut, cut me a little bit in the back of the Achilles. But aside from that, I mean, they were not, they were warm.

01:53:10

They were comfy. Yeah. It was just fine. They did say that they run, like they warn you to, that they run a little small and you know, so that's why

01:53:22

I had gotten them and said, yeah, there's no way this is fitting me, but it fit Chris. So I gave it to him. So I did get smaller ones that fit me and I've been enjoying them.

01:53:31

They're very warm and they, and they do have a cushion on them. So it's, it's really nice. Yeah. They're pretty comfy.

01:53:37

Yeah. Well, I don't know what Justin's doing. He's probably running, he's grabbing a pillow or something. He's grabbing food.

01:53:44

He's getting dinner. Oh, he already had one dinner. He's going for dinner. Number two. All right. Okay. Well, there we go.

01:53:50

Well, that's a good way to end the show. Cause obviously That's a good way to end the show cause I'm hungry. Bye guys. Aaron says, love my pillow.

01:53:58

Help me sleep like, sleep like a cow. So there you go. But we, we do appreciate

01:54:06

Ronald's email or comments. I'm not going to, we're not going to do this again.

01:54:11

I thought this was helpful because he did, he did. You know, there, there were a lot of things here that I thought we could talk about as a show.

01:54:21

And a most important thing, I think that we all wanted to talk about, even Dr. Special brought up is the fact of, you know, we need to stop it.

01:54:31

Right. As Chris said, we need to stop blowing each other up over a thing like these vaccines.

01:54:39

This shouldn't be something that's divides us as the body of Christ. Look, my closing comments to us is this, we have more important issues to be dealing with right now than COVID vaccines.

01:54:53

Okay. This, this should not be the issue that at this day and age, especially if you think this is the end times, this is not the issues we should be dealing with.

01:55:06

We should be dealing with the gospel. What is the gospel? The fact that you and I, every one of us here, we are sinners.

01:55:14

If you haven't figured that out by this show, the several times people have apologized, right? We are sinners.

01:55:21

We cannot save ourselves. God himself became a man and died in our place that we could be forgiven because of what he did.

01:55:30

He died, was buried, rose from the dead. He rose from the dead, indicating that he has the authority to forgive you of sin because of what he did on the cross, being an eternal

01:55:40

God, he can pay the eternal fine, becoming a man. He could pay the fine for as men because he never sinned and we could be set free.

01:55:49

That's the gospel. That's the most important message for us to be sharing. You know, Ronald was right that we do need to be concerned, concerned about souls, but we need to be concerned about the souls of those who are dying and going to hell and not making an issue over something like a vaccine.

01:56:06

So I hope this has been helpful. I hope it's been educational. I hope that this has given you, I mean, our goal was to try to give people an idea of how do we think right about things?

01:56:15

How do we think fairly about things? How do we evaluate what people say and, and consider those things.

01:56:21

So I hope you've enjoyed this. I hope that you'll come back next week. I don't have a plan for what we have next week.

01:56:26

I don't think we have a guest. I do know that Dr. Shvestro has one coming up soon. That's going to be talking on the

01:56:34

SBC. That's going to be the 18th, two weeks from tonight. So I'm sure we'll post in the

01:56:39

Apologetics Live Facebook group what, what we may be talking about. So check that out. You can always join that and look there to find out what we're, what we're doing, whether we're having a show, if we end up canceling, we put it there.

01:56:50

But that's a good place to go. Also, if you want to help support us, just go to strivingforeturning .org slash support.

01:56:56

That is how you can support us. If you can support us weekly, sorry, monthly, that would be of great help.

01:57:03

We appreciate it helps us to be able to do shows like this and many others. So until next week, remember to strive to make today an eternal day.