December 13, 2017 Show with Jason Wallace on “Temples Made With Hands” & “The Homosexual Seduction of the Mormon Church”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday. On this 13th day of December 2017,

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I'm so delighted to have back as a returning guest my friend Pastor Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church of Magna, Utah, which is a suburb of Salt Lake City.

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This is a congregation within the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and Pastor Jason Wallace is also host of the

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Ancient Paths radio show and producer of lds .video

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and we are going to be discussing today two topics on Mormonism.

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The first we are going to be addressing is Temples Made with Hands, which is also a new documentary video that Jason Wallace and Christ Presbyterian Church of Magna, Utah have produced.

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The second hour we will be addressing the homosexual seduction of the Mormon Church, which may be quite astonishing to a lot of you listening.

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But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jason Wallace. Chris, great to be with you.

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And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, whether you agree with Pastor Wallace or whether you vehemently disagree, maybe you're a

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Mormon. We would love to hear from you if you are a Mormon, although we would love it even more if you were not a

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Mormon. We would still love to hear from you if you are a Mormon. We'd also love to hear from folks in the

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Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. We've got to do a program on that sometime.

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I believe it's now called the Community of Christ. They've changed their name.

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But the email address to send your questions to is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

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Perhaps you are a Mormon and you're asking a question and you don't want to draw attention to your identity.

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Perhaps you are a Mormon who is starting to question the theology of Mormonism. There may be a host of reasons why you have a personal and private matter that you want to address without revealing your identity and we will grant your request.

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But if it's not a personal and private matter, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Well, first of all, as we always do, Pastor Jason, especially since there are new listeners joining the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience every day, please let our listeners know something about Christ Presbyterian Church of Magna, Utah.

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Thank you, Chris. We're a small congregation. We started from scratch nearly,

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May will be 20 years ago. And the Lord's blessed. We started from scratch and we have an established congregation.

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The Lord blessed us with a building. We had a television program for seven and a half years on a local

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UHS station here. The station was sold a couple of years ago and so that went away and we started making our evangelistic videos.

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We've done dozens of debates over the years. James White used to come to town twice a year and we started arranging debates for him and then when they put the word out not to do any more debates with James, I started doing some of the more popular apologists and we had some others as well.

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We've done debates with Mormons, Roman Catholics, Atheists and others.

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On the television program, we had an instructor from the

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LDS Institute of Religion on I think about 14 times over the years. We had former

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Mormons such as Sander Tanner, Grant Palmer, and Glenn Wilder and people like that.

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We had the president of the Atheists of Utah on different ones. So we've tried to be aggressive in our outreach.

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The Lord's blessed our videos. They're all free at www .lds

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.video. We've just finished our eighth LDS video. We also made one called

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An Earnest Plea to Gay Christians which basically tries to respond to that whole movement which you'll hear later on how that ties in with our ministry here in Utah.

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And we addressed that subject before and you are being somewhat tongue -in -cheek with the title because you do not believe that someone can actually be a genuine

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Christian and be a homosexual, an active unrepentant homosexual. Correct. I mean that's the end of the video.

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You can't be both uh and you know it's completely inconsistent with what we see the apostles say and so you know we we interact with all the various arguments that are floated and specifically interact with the presentations that Matthew Bynes has done which he's become a pretty popular spokesman for that.

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And James White the aforementioned scholar that you had come to the

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Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah on a number of occasions. We don't want to steer your audience wrong that he's no longer coming because he is coming

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God willing this February isn't he? Oh yeah. James is basically he used to come twice a year for the general conference and would hand out tracts and witness to people outside of Temple Square.

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It after the 2000 Olympics it became a circus down there.

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The street preachers came and started trying to shout him down because I mean they were trying to shout everybody down and anyone who tried to hold them to a biblical standard they would they would mock and ridicule and it just made it impossible to happen.

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Just so our listeners know what you're talking about, these are not Mormons. These are self -professed fundamentalists who most of them or at least many of them are not even affiliated with local churches.

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They are mavericks who have been in a very mean -spirited unproductive manner picketing

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Mormon events with a attitude and a rhetoric bordering on the same lines as the

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God hates fags group the Westboro Baptist Church and James White who was there reasoning with Mormons from the

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Bible in a loving and compassionate yet firm fashion was also also became a part of their protest because he was not sharing in their vitriol and their venom and so it became a really difficult situation for Dr.

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White and the Alpha and Omega Ministries volunteers to continue because they were being broad -brushed with these people behaving in an absurd and anti -productive and unchristian manner.

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Oh most definitely. I mean the Westboro Baptist people actually did show up as well.

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They were not the ones that kept coming were not with them but they were of the same basic approach.

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I mean they were they were shouting really specific accusations against people they didn't know.

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There were a couple of girls about 14 years old that were trying to cross the street from Temple Square over to their conference center and the girls were trying to ignore the guys and sort of giggling at them and here's this guy 50 years old screaming through a bullhorn what's the matter with you you couple of lesbians or something.

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Wow. And you know one of them would take a

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Book of Mormon on a string and drag it on the ground and say come on Mormons uh defend your

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Book of Mormon. Another one would take Mormon sacred garments and wave them over his head, blow his nose on them, throw them on the ground, wave them all around.

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And yeah this is while Mormons are lined up to go to their church's general conference.

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Well when James opposed them for this kind of these kind of tactics they showed up six months later with skinhead wigs because James he's got oh no

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James and I are both Scottish descent we've got the same hairline except he shaves his head.

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I think he stopped using a razor to the whole thing though he's kind of letting it have like a five o 'clock shadow on his scalp now.

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Okay well he he was he was totally shaving it back then and so they literally showed up with skinhead wigs and a sign that had a quote which was actually a good quote from James's book

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Letters to a Mormon Elder and they were screaming at the Mormons we're with him we're with him and it was the most surreal thing

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I mean Utah is surreal on a normal day this was especially surreal.

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And when people act like that when when professed Christians act like that all they do is further convince their enemies or their theological enemies that they were right in their accusations or presumptions against Christianity.

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Oh it's the Mormons ate it up because I mean basically they're thinking to themselves uh of we're being persecuted like our forefathers and then you know the these um

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I hate to call them this because I don't want to identify them with people who wouldn't do these kind of things but they're they identify themselves as independent fundamental

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Baptists um and they're not preaching they're independent fundamental

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Baptists who actually preach the biblical Jesus and the biblical gospel this these people they were just making broad accusations against everybody and uh just ranting it wasn't preaching at all uh you know they were holding up signs that showed

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Joseph Smith in hell and they were mocking it as the LD uh or the LSD church instead of LDS and you know it was just childhood and so when they were getting um obviously you know getting some kind of uh response from the

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Mormons they felt justified because you know Jesus said you know we would be persecuted and we're being persecuted for telling the truth and you know

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James rebuked these guys he asked me to join him it was a privilege um this is ungodly and they they harden people against the truth rather than speaking the truth in love so uh obviously our intent today when we are exposing error uh we are trying and I'm not saying that we are infallible in doing this and I'm sure that I have unconsciously or even purposely in a sinful way uh have gone over the edge into intentional mockery and ad hominem ad hominem uh but that is not our intention today we are trying to do what a any loving

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Christian should do is expose deadly and damning error and I'm talking about spiritually deadly and damning error because it is not more loving to spare one's feelings uh and allow someone to continue on the path to hell

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I mean someone's feelings are infinitely less important than their eternal destiny all right oh most definitely

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I I mean I tell Mormons they have the wrong god in the wrong gospel that Joseph Smith is a false prophet who's leading them to outer darkness you know

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I I make very clear that it's heaven and hell in the balance but I try to negotiate the minefield that the church has helped them install uh to get them to listen to what is being said um simply screaming insults at people and randomly mentioning

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Jesus's name is not preaching the gospel and you know

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I I pray that God will convict people I sometimes feel like my ministries described in Ezekiel 33 that God has made me a pleasant song to people they like to hear me but they don't do what

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I say but we we've seen a lot of success in terms of getting them to listen and at least recognize that yes we're the

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Bible presents a different God in a different gospel now the investment that they have in that makes it hard for them to leave um but we see fruit you know probably about 40 percent of our congregation is former

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Mormon wow I didn't know that yeah I mean it makes sense geographically but I just didn't know that uh that was the case that's quite fascinating I when we did the television program this fellow that I had on numerous times he told me that the president of the

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Salt Lake Temple tried to watch every week and so you know Mormonism it doesn't it doesn't take much to to shake it to its foundations and um when we when we just deal with emotions though that allows the

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Mormons to go back to what they're really convinced is their standard of truth which is their own hearts and the burning in their bosom is the real standard not not the

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Bible the Book of Mormon or anything else it's it's to some great extent it's their hearts lead them to do what the prophet tells them to do so he's really the voice of God more than anything well we have had you on the program a number of times to discuss some of the bedrock heretical teachings of the latter -day saints and also a lot of the things that involve their history and so on so we can't spend too much time repeating ourselves and I would like to just direct our listeners not only to the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Archive if you type in Mormon you will get a number of past interviews that are there for your listening not only with Jason Wallace but with some other former

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Mormons I'm sorry not other former Mormons Jason Wallace was never a Mormon but I mean with other apologists critiquing

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Mormonism that's the better way but and some of them happen to be former

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Mormons but you could also go to lds .video and these are really well done very professional highly researched and documented documentaries and I heartily recommend them especially since my voice is on some of them but that's that's not the only reason

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I am recommending them there are some things that I've done in my past in regard to voiceover work that I would never brag about to anybody publicly but I one of the reasons

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I got involved in it is just because of the superb quality of what is being done and knowing of the character and biblically solid theological background of Pastor Wallace so look up those videos when this show is over and start watching them at lds .video

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lds .video now I'm assuming that your latest one temples made with hands is part of that umbrella or part of the videos under that umbrella at lds .video

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most definitely and they're all free basically the website is just a link to youtube videos so I mean they're all you can find them on youtube as well but yeah they're all free we had covered a number of things we did the first big video which was an earnest plea to Latter -day

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Saints and that gives it's nearly two hours long it deals about 45 minutes with the historic lies of Mormonism you know things that even the most devout

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Mormons can't really deny that their churches just lie through its teeth and we do that to basically break up the ground to try to get them to listen to what the bible says in terms of three other lies the lies being that God is an exalted man which is part of their whole belief system that Adam's sin that man might be and that they preach the restored gospel we try to show them the real

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God the real nature of sin in the real gospel that was sort of the big video that we first made we've made smaller videos with the burning in your bosom from God the vanishing

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Lamanites the burning in your bosom one is meant to challenge from the bible and proverbs it says that he who trusts in his own heart is a fool

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Jeremiah 17 9 the heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things we we show them the biblical standard of understanding truth and then we show them other groups that sound very very much like the

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Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses so it's the Adventists making the same identical arguments that Mormons make and then we also you know show them uh fundamentalist

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Mormons and so then the vanishing Lamanites is a short video it basically points out that the

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Mormon church uh was used to be very very clear about who the American Indians were they said they were the the lost sheep of the house of Israel they were

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Israelites they came to America divided up into a couple of different groups um one group was white and white some of the other was cursed with dark skin

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Lamanites killed the Nephites and became the progenitors of the Indians and they're being gathered back into Israel for the for the last days was the whole pitch of the book of Mormon um we've got

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Spencer Kimball uh himself on um on audio with a picture of course showing saying the the

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Indian is a Lamanite he is not an Asiatic and you know all these very clear statements that were made until DNA started showing exactly the opposite and now they've changed the intro to the book of Mormon to where it used to say that the the

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Indians were the predominant ancestors of the American Indians or the

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Lamanites now they're saying they were among the ancestors of the American Indians and they've really toned it down to where no one can find the

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Lamanites anymore right if you if I don't know if you've ever seen this but there was a documentary and I'm not sure how old it was it's probably over a decade but it might not be uh there were

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Mormons who converted to Christianity when they were scientists who were studying the

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DNA record and they realized that the American Indians or Native Americans uh the

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DNA that they possess has nothing to do with the uh the

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DNA of of genuine Hebrews if you will yeah we we then made a video called um the magical Mormon scriptures which shows that their whole view of scriptures just keeps changing um you know one of their standard works is doctrine and covenants well a huge chunk of it was just simply taken out in the 1920s uh there have been changes to the book of Mormon there have been changes to um their revelations over and over and over revelations um were put forward and then taken back sometimes they were put forward and they were expanded sometimes they were contracted it really is a shifting target and they did the same thing of course in the bible they they added um all kinds of additional parts uh to the bible joseph smith did his supposedly inspired translation and we deal with all that then we did a couple of videos after Mormonism atheism which is where a lot of people end up when they leave

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Mormonism and then the other one is after Mormonism now what and the three big sections of that are uh what the lies my church taught me about the bible the lies my church taught me about jesus and the lies my church taught me about other churches and we deal with the common things

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Mormonism like Islam and a whole bunch of other things they tend to think that the best defense is a strong offense and so rather than actually putting something solid forward they try to do show all the holes in Christianity well we try to do both we try to basically show the problems of Mormonism but also how do we know what books are in the bible how do we know that the text has been correctly transmitted how do we know um that it can be understood when there's so many different denominations how do we answer all these various questions though this last video though to me really

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I think I hope gets to the heart of the younger Mormons because Mormonism has given up to a great extent its argumentation that it is objectively true and so they tend to it is subjectively true and the the temple is the heart of Mormon mysticism they're convinced they have the temple temples are biblical and they this is the true restoration of the gospel that they have temples and we try to take it apart and show what the biblical temple was about and how every

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Mormon temple is a monument to its to the LDS church's rejection of the biblical gospel and uh if anybody would like to join us on the air send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and I'm going to our break right now our first break because I don't want to interrupt pastor

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Jason mid -sentence if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own send it to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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and please always remember to give your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter don't go away god willing we will be right back right after these messages with more of Jason Wallace and temples made with hands tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship and how about the preaching perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from long island well there's good news waiting river baptist church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of god's word and this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times 631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us

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and once again their toll -free number is 800 -656 -0231 we are back now with our guest today jason wallace pastor of christ presbyterian church of magna utah which is a congregation within the orthodox presbyterian denomination he is host of the ancient paths program now did i make a mistake is that a radio or tv show it was a television program uh for seven and a half years and then they sold the station so um but it was television while it was going okay i apologize for that flub there and he's also producer of lds .video

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which has a number of different uh documentaries intended to be a witness for christianity and the scriptures to mormons we are discussing one of those documentaries today temples made with hands in the second hour god willing we'll be discussing the homosexual seduction of the mormon church you'd like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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now before we go into any audience questions could you please summarize what the main intent of the documentary temples made with hands is and some of the uh core things that you have revealed in this documentary sure there's nothing much in terms of anything that most people who are familiar with mormonism don't know i mean there's a few things that mormons would be surprised about i mean many mormons are surprised that their first temple didn't have any of the features that you see in current temples even the baptistry with the oxen right they didn't have a baptismal font it didn't have uh a garden room a ceiling room a telestial terrestrial or celestial room it is because the things that define much of temple work in mormonism uh baptism for the dead uh celestial marriage these uh these kinds of things uh were not known in the first decade of the mormon church they were never practiced in the kirtland temple so i mean that's a bit of a revelation to some are well i guess to many mormons um we don't reveal that many secrets as far as you know people looking for you know some kind of um secret ceremonies or anything like that we try to avoid things that would be considered sacred to the mormons that they wouldn't listen to but um we mentioned second anointings which most mormons don't seem to know what that is that's when someone is sealed that except for murder they cannot lose their their position in the lds church they will never it's basically attesting that they will never fall away uh so we sort of dangle that out there because most mormons don't even know that exists but um what we try to do is compare what the biblical temple does with what the lds temple does and we need to be clear the mormon meeting houses are not temples the temples are places that not only can non -mormons not enter except before they're dedicated um you know sometimes they'll have a tour beforehand but then they'll go through and they'll take the carpet up afterwards and cleanse the temple basically and then they'll dedicate it and not only can non -mormons not go in but most mormons can't go in either only temple worthy those who have proven that they're keeping the word of wisdom that they're tithing that you know they're they're being faithful mormons and get a temple recommend from their bishop only they can enter and they do these secret ceremonies they do baptism for the dead they do endowments they do celestial marriage and these kinds of things yes and there's a lot of connection with the masonic lodge and mormon temples and ritual correct correct we in the video we basically try to play off of how central temples are to mormon's identity of themselves um mormons really don't know that much about a lot of things in the bible but you know their their temples are central to their to their life and faith and so um i mean this is tied into their whole theme families are forever it's supposed to supposedly through the temple it's through celestial marriage it's by being sealed to your parents is by being uh all these various things are supposed to bring eternal consequences and so uh what we do is we kind of segue off of that and the differences between the kirtland temple and later temples to go through what does the bible say about temples when we go back to the garden of eden we go through uh christ fulfillment of everything that the tabernacle and temple were in type and shadow and how he brings true reconciliation with god and point out that the temple made with hands was destroyed in 70 a .d

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it was taken away from the jews and not only is the new testament clear but the early church fathers very very clear they're not trying to build any new temples and of course mormonism says no they really wanted temples but there was a great apostasy and they gave up on it uh the reality is that no one was building temples to speak of other than other groups that's another story that sort of predate mormonism that joseph's father was involved in possibly the new israelites were building temples but we know that at least a dozen years before the publication of the book of mormon both joseph's father and brother were involved in the freemasons and they built temples and it's from freemasonry that they get not only temples made with hands but they get the aprons they get the raising of the hand of the square they get the um symbolic cutting of the throat though that's been taken out of the mormon temple ritual since 1990 so yeah it's very much based in freemasonry mormon joseph smith claimed he was not only restoring the true primitive christianity but the true primitive freemasonry as well and many of his uh early followers came out of freemasonry and uh why is this so disturbing to you uh there are even christians for instance and there have been christians for centuries uh even going back to some of our founding fathers like george washington who professed to be a christian and so on who were members of the mason lodge or the freemasonry lodge tell us about why this would be alarming in any way well i mean freemasonry is basically a counterfeit to the church uh there's there's a wonderful paper that the orthodox presbyterian church wrote i think it was back in the 50s or 40s called christ or the lodge uh freemasonry presents itself like mormonism as wholesome and believing in god and all like this but like like mormonism when you start getting past the veneer you find out it's really occultic it's it's it's not biblical christianity by any stretch it's a fraternity without a without a christian creed and it's it's basically a substitute for the church to a great extent uh freemasonry became really popular through the enlightenment and people seeking some kind of fraternity apart from from the church but in 1826 captain william morgan uh was kidnapped by uh freemasons because he had written a book revealing their secrets and then he turned turned up dead um this this started a wave of anti -masonic activity in the in the united states that helped usher in some of the um things that we see in mormonism uh joseph smith actually ends up married to his widow as one of his plural wives uh and many many of the lodges shut down and into that vacuum steps smith saying yes freemasonry has become perverted but we're offering the true freemasonry but um yeah basically it's freemasonry at its best offers a god who is a deistic god uh he's pretty much whatever you want him to be at its worst if you if you read some of the the writings of some of their leaders it ends up um going off into some some badly occult directions and by the way i want to let our listeners know that i uh had done some interviews in the past with my friend john otis who wrote a book called free masonry a dangerous cult and you could look that up in amazon and i might be able to find before the end of the program another url that you could order that book from it's the largest at least when it was written and published it was the largest most exhaustive treatment of freemasonry coming from a christian perspective a point of criticism coming from a uh point of criticism from a christian an evangelical christian that and john was actually a part many years ago of a pca board that was developed to vote on whether or not pca members could be also simultaneously members of the masons and john developed his vast files of research because of being charged with that duty being a board a board member at the time and that's how he came to be such a thoroughly knowledgeable expert on the masons in fact uh after a a listener of the iron sharpens iron radio program in dublin ireland heard my interview with him he had john he contacted john and had john invited john to debate a high level mason in london england and the the high level mason was also a sweden borgianist and it was quite an interesting debate and you can see that on on youtube i'm assuming it's still there uh john otis debate on freemasonry and you'll you'll find it but i digress i'm sorry about that um and uh a lot of a lot of the uh mormon rite and ritual is very eerie when it comes to uh connections with things that seem very superstitious and even occultic am i going too far in that no not at all uh basically the the mormon temples are centered around this idea that there are three levels of heaven and that you can reach the highest level through participating in the right ceremonies and so what you do uh you go through and you earn secret handshakes through the veil and they they act out things like i mean they used to act out they cut this part but uh satan uh well they still have satan uh being portrayed in the temple and the the green apron is supposed to be or his apron is supposed to represent uh his his priesthood and authority and they have their own green apron uh there in the temple and it's it's like freemasonry have their aprons they learn their secret handshakes through the veil and it's it's a gnosticism that by learning the right ceremonies you can move up the ladder but instead of moving up the ladder to higher levels of the craft you move up higher levels into heaven and by doing by by doing the right things and doing what the church tells you supposedly you can become a god yourself like uh elohim supposedly did before us he's supposedly an exalted man as well there's plenty there's multiple you know there's many gods many different worlds will end up with our own spirit wives populating our own planets someday if we if we follow their plan of salvation but they used to they used to copy the masonic oath that if you uh if you reveal the secrets you took your thumb held your hand out with your thumb you would go across your throat and say may my throat be cut and my heart and bowels be cut out or something along those lines um when mit romney was um candidate for president there was a lot of media coverage of um mormon holy underwear as a lot of people called it but on the left breast of that is sewn in a compass and on the right breast a square uh so it's it's the compass and square and you and you see the the free masonic symbols all over their temples you know all -seeing eye the beehive um the special handshakes um the sun the moon stars um compass and square of course and you know these are these other kinds of things and then of course inside you have uh the aprons and one of the things we point out in the video is god stripped adam and eve of their uh apron of fig leaves and covered them in the coats in the skins of dead animals the shedding of blood god rent the veil of the temple from top to bottom to to demonstrate that the end of that temple made with hands the freemasonry or the freemasons and then the mormons brought back the temple made with hands brought back the veil and they brought back the apron wow uh now the the thing that is puzzling to me is that you will have mormon marriages sealed in the temple and they are supposedly connected with eternal significance and then you still have mormons getting divorced and remarried and so on what's going on there uh yeah there's the facade and there's the reality um i think we have the the lowest age of marriage or close to it uh in the country uh typically as far as you know the median age of people's first marriage a lot of folks a lot of folks get married right out of high school um we have a lot of divorces here and that creates issues and you can you can end up getting a temple divorce of course then you end up with problems like uh marie osmond she marries a guy young she gets married in the temple sealed to him for eternity then divorces him marries another guy and then ends up going back to her first husband and um after that and um so yeah it creates some confusion here now of course there are there are multitudes of evangelical christians born -again believers who have been divorced so we're not like mocking marie osmond about anything it just has to do with a inconsistency or an inconsistency with mormon dogma i mean things that are not uh things that are supposed to be changeable am i right on that right i mean the temple marriages are not just till death do you part the temple marriages are supposed to be for time and eternity and it's by being married in the temple that the man can qualify to become a god and then he can call his wife from the grave and they're given uh they're given new names by which to call one another uh from what i understand there's an awful lot of sarahs out there that's because that was one of joseph smith's wives correct yeah the temple names do tend to correspond with joseph smith's wives but uh but at any rate they um these are these are weddings not just for time but for all eternity and they're claiming that they have the authority to do that and then they end up breaking that that and then you end up marrying that same person again and it's like so do you marry him for eternity again i don't know that she got a temple divorce or not but i mean i'm i'm not picking on her for that it's just they they hold themselves up that families are forever and we're the only you know we're not not only are we the way that you can get to god but we're the only way that you can reach the highest level of heaven by our temples and by our ceremonies and um yeah their consistency is falling apart in a lot of ways well we're going to our midway break this is a longer break than normal when we return i'm going to have you summarize the the whole topic of uh temples made with hands and then we're going to move on to our second subject which is the homosexual seduction of the mormon church if anybody would like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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that's batterydepot .com paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of christ hi i'm mark lucan's pastor of providence baptist church we are a reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofolk massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

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make a list of all the books that you want to order and then go to cvbbs .com and order them and uh just to let you know that uh to repeat what we said earlier cvbbs .com

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or you can call them at 800 -656 -0231 800 -656 -0231 and don't forget to look for titles especially published by solid ground christian books solid ground christian books and uh we are going to return to our discussion momentarily uh with jason wallace pastor of christ presbyterian church of magnate utah which is an orthodox presbyterian congregation also known as the opc uh he is former host of the ancient paths television show and producer of lds .video

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we were discussing during our first hour temples made with hands we are going to wrap that up in a moment and move on to our second subject the homosexual seduction of the mormon church if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and we have a number of you already waiting to have your questions asked and answered by jason wallace so be patient and we'll be with you as soon as we can i just have to make one or should i say a couple more announcements the g3 conference which stands for grace gospel and glory is returning to atlanta georgia this january 17th through the 20th they are going to hold this conference once again for the second time at the georgia international convention center quite an enormous facility uh and i am going to be there god willing for the second time uh to man and i am chirping's iron radio exhibitors booth and i hope many of you greet me there uh when you when you attend this conference please uh i'm begging i'm begging you to please if it is all possible please attend this conference uh the g3 conference this january will be on knowing god a biblical understanding of discipleship the 17th begins during the daytime with an exclusively spanish -speaking edition of the conference and then we transition into the english language on the evening of january 17th when dr james r white of alpha omega ministries debates a muslim and then on the 18th the english version of the conference actually begins on the theme knowing god a biblical understanding of discipleship and the speakers include stephen lawson vody balkan phil johnson keith getty keith getty i was right hb charles jr tim challis josh bice james white tom askell antonin bethenia michael kruger david miller paul tripp todd free derrick thomas martha peace justin peters and stephen nichols has just recently been added he is the president of reformation bible college a college uh started by ligonier ministries the teaching ministry of dr rc sprawl if you would like to register for this conference uh go to g3 conference .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and whatever it is you're advertising whether it's your church power church business professional practice special event as long as it's compatible with the theology expressed on iron sharpens iron radio we would love to launch an ad campaign with you it doesn't have to be identical you don't have to have identical beliefs to me but you cannot have beliefs that militate against mine especially when it comes to what you're advertising uh so thank you very much for your time and allowing me to rattle my tin cup because of the urgent situation and desperate situation that we find ourselves here on iron sharpens iron radio financially now we are back to our discussion with pastor jason wallace of christ presbyterian church and producer of lds .video

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we are discussing uh we are wrapping up our discussion a discussion right now on temples made with hands and then we're going to move on to the homosexual the seduction of the mormon church if you could summarize those things you most want our listeners to know about temples made with hands pastor jason sure essentially the tabernacle and temple in the bible pointed forward to christ it is in him that we find all the types and shadows fulfilled it's the point is that he is the end of the christian faith to to know him to be known by him in mormonism jesus is not our god and our creator he is our elder spirit brother and he has made it possible for us to save ourselves essentially uh it's by the grace of god after all we can do through through our obedience through our temple rituals we can exalt ourselves and so jesus becomes a means to an end we are the end uh the westminster shorter catechism first question is what is the chief end of man um man's chief end is to glorify god and to enjoy him forever in mormonism if they were bold enough to answer that question it would be god's chief end is to glorify man and so um the difference between the god of the bible and us is is absolute it is qualitative uh he is he is ungenerated he is uh infinite eternal omnipotent the difference between elohim in mormonism and the mormon in their thinking is that we all started out as eternal intelligences and through obedience to law he became uh he was able to prove his worthiness to become a god and we can do the very same thing and so uh mormonism is all about exalting self the biblical gospel is about exalting christ and they they think they have much higher views of heaven because of all their temple ceremonies and everything else the reality is their god is pitifully small their god is a superman he is mightier than a locomotive faster than a speeding bullet but he is just an exalted man i'm sorry i can't couldn't help but laugh at that that's pretty funny yeah i mean it's four it's superman it's it's a big super man but it you know the when in the first video we point out when solomon dedicated the temple in jerusalem he said the heavens of heavens cannot contain thee how much less this house that i've built and depending on the mormon audience i'm speaking with i mean i'll try to rattle people's cages a little bit but i try to speak respectfully but i'll but i'll tell them your gods could be stacked up like cordwood in in solomon's temple because they're just exalted men but the heavens of heavens can't contain the god who created them okay well uh before i go into the new topic on the homosexual seduction of the mormon church i have a listener from copenhagen denmark and i could be wrong but i think that we either ran out of time of one of during one of your previous interviews and could not take this brother's question uh so i'm going to ask it now but even if we already asked it on the air i just don't remember it's it's a good question that would apply very much to any discussion on the latter -day saints so i'm going to reread the question anyway from arman in copenhagen denmark he asks you how do you utilize apologetics when evangelizing mormons and then he has a follow -up question but i'll start with that one they're they're intimately connected because mormons have been inoculated against the bible and against the biblical gospel most the vast majority of mormons think that the evangelical faith is you walk it out you pray a prayer and then you live like a pagan and of course the the irony is uh that is gnosticism but so is mormonism and mormonism is instead of learning you know the magic phrase jesus died for me without any change of heart without any new birth without the holy spirit indwelling us um mormonism is going through a temple and learning secret handshakes and learning secret passwords um so mormons have been in both inoculated against the gospel and they have been taught of a vocabulary that redefines every term you use so most evangelicals when they try to share the gospel with mormons they come away frustrated or thinking there's not really that big a difference because mormons will say oh yeah we're sinners oh yeah we believe that we're saved by grace through faith you know they'll go through these things and sometimes you can get them to even sound even more biblical because over the last generation mormonism has really downplayed defining itself um the old standard mormon doctrine by bruce r mcconkie one of their apostles has been allowed to go out of print because they don't want to define themselves much of it on anything so in order to deal with mormons you have to learn their jargon you have to learn what they mean by things and how their whole system works that when they're talking about god they're not talking about the god of the bible even though they say they are they're talking about an exalted man who was the spirit son of another god who uh during his mortal probation obeyed the law and you know gets resurrected according to brigham young of course he comes back as adam and that's one of our videos um is dealing with you know brigham young felt that you had this perpetual uh exaltation and falling of gods um and that's a whole nother rabbit trail but the reason one of the big reasons we've made these videos is there's a huge hurdle for non -mormons to try to communicate the gospel with mormons you have to learn the language and everything else by making these videos what you can do is simply say you know i saw this video and earnestly latter -day saints i would love to hear your feedback and most mormons of course will then try to spin it well that's anti mormon propaganda they're mormon bashers but you know you should really hear it from our missionaries and let us present what we really believe and if you if you don't fall for that and say no i'd really like to hear your feedback on this because it makes some very specific claims and it says that if anyone could show any error uh any significant errors of fact that they will publicly apologize to the mormon church and pull it from the internet so please just watch it tell me what you think and if you're persistent in that and nice most mormons will watch it and you can watch it with them and you can and it puts it in language that the mormons can understand but also that the non -mormon can understand and uh you actually reminded me of some of the things you were saying uh a friend of mine uh deborah antik nano who's a former jehovah's witness born again believer in christ and someone who is gifted with a truly breathtaking gift of singing and she sings professionally she sings in churches and for special christian events but she was in a dialogue on the internet with glenn beck and she showed me a screenshot of her dialogue with him and he was getting angry about his christianity being questioned since he's a mormon and he basically in anger said i'm going to say this one last time okay you know i mean i don't know the tone of his voice but even to say that is pretty pretty remarkable why you would be saying that you only wanted to say it one last time um he said that he believes that we are sinners that jesus christ is our savior uh that he rose from the dead and uh without him we would not have salvation or something to that effect and so see there i'm a christian now they have a they have this often they very often have the same vocabulary but a different dictionary don't they oh most definitely and i mean by that standard the judaizers were christians right by that and and god says no it's another gospel entirely the apostle paul says let them be anathema uh by that standard the docetist who said that jesus did not come in the flesh are christians too and yet god through the apostle john says they they're not christians they're anti -christ and you know it's not a matter of being able to to check all the right boxes on the theological exam the question is how have our hearts been changed have our eyes been opened and we've been given ears to hear do we have the holy spirit testifying by and with the scriptures in our hearts to who the real jesus is and true believers can be confused about a lot of things but when the witness is abundantly clear uh and it's rejected then it's clear that the the judiazers and the docetist they were no christians at all and neither are mormons because i mean i i asked mormons would you consider me a mormon if i said that i believe that joseph smith was a prophet of god and he's born in vermont he was raised in new york he married emma uh hale and you know i go down the list but then i tell you that the joseph smith that i believe is a prophet is a black man living today in kerns utah uh all of a sudden despite all the similarities we're not talking about the same god same joseph smith anymore similarly we're not talking the same god anymore the god of mormonism is one among many gods he hasn't always been god he didn't make everything he's not that holy the fall of adam was is considered a good thing it was a fall upward it was uh according to bruce mcconkie one of the greatest blessings ever given to man and um you know the deeper you go past the initial rhetoric the more down the rabbit hole you go it's a different god a different gospel and you know the difference is not a razor's edge the difference is a chasm and uh let's have an abbreviated response to this since we really do want to go on to the homosexual issue with mormonism armin from copenhagen denmark also says i would assume that sometimes there needs to be some groundwork before proclaiming the gospel since mormons have a different view of god sin hell heaven grace etc which is something that you were just talking about so i'm assuming he is correct that it would be wise not not necessary but wise to have some homework about what mormons believe before you get into a dialogue with them most definitely and i i think you also need to understand the culture if you start talking justification sanctification uh the uh vicarious atonement things like this with mormons their eyes will typically glaze over uh they're like oh yeah we believe in the atonement you know or something like that but um the mormons have been conditioned not to think about these things but to emote over them so the best approach i know is to give them the stories of scripture they are they're a narrative based culture you have stories from the book of mormon you have stories of the pioneers you have stories of the missionaries there's very much story story story oriented so give them the stories of the bible i've lost count of how many times i've gone through and shown uh mormons god drowning the whole world in noah's flood except for those on the ark god when nate about to buy you the sons of aaron all for strange worship the fire of the lord goes out and turns them into the incense and i take them through these judgments that show that god is far holier and sin is far worse than they ever imagined and i've had numerous mormons point at the bible and say that's not my god and i say that's your problem because that's the only real one well thank you armin in copenhagen denmark keeps listening to iron trip and zion radio and keep spreading the word about the program in scandinavia and beyond uh well before i go into some of your our audience questions on the homosexual issue please start with a summary of why you wanted to discuss this issue today it may be alarming to a lot of people that this is even an issue amongst those that have been considered to be the most conservative religious people in america and here we have an issue of homosexuality infiltrating even the official church of jesus christ of latter -day saints so if you could tell us something about this sure uh ever since uh gordon b inkley became prophet and even before but especially with his becoming prophet there's been a move away from the mormonism of bruce r mcconkie and the old hardline mormonism in much the same way there's been a move away from hardline much of anything in religion in this country um mormons used to say we're not christians we're mormons but then but they've been taught now to say of course we're christians why would you say we're not christians we're christians too and part of that is a strategy to blot the criticism part of it is the reality that mormons have essentially tried to avoid criticism by taking any kind of that could be criticized they've been very socially conservative up until uh fairly recently they were uh the candidacy of of mit romney was a huge thing and also before that they uh they supported proposition eight in california and they were in they were instrumental in having proposition eight that defined marriages between one man and one woman passed on the state level in in california well the blowback from that i think shocked them you had thousands of people marching in the streets in in salt lake and so the leadership backpedaled a lot they gave a lot of money to the utah pride center uh they started promoting local ordinances that uh prohibited discrimination against homosexuals in terms of employment and housing first at a local level and then ultimately at the state level and it wasn't just that they were not opposing it they were driving it now simultaneously many people are leaving mormonism for atheism or pantheism or you know basically to make up your own religion um you just replace monson as the as the prophet but um in leaving mormonism many people react against the the strict ethics against sexual uh sexual immorality and drinking and things like that uh we have a cheese company here in utah that uh they became very popular by putting a coating of tea and coffee on their cheeses yeah this is this is the ex -mormons way to shake their fists at mormonism wow yeah i can't make this stuff up but anyway um salt lake city is the home of the university of utah and it's less mormon than a lot of other places but it also has a lot of mormons that they go through they're not they're not openly rebellious but they're getting swept away they really don't believe much anymore they haven't left the church but they don't really believe it anymore and so the mayor of salt lake city um they voted down and an al gore style democrat in favor of a bernie sanders style democrat who is an open lesbian and this didn't come out after the election this was a this was a resume enhancement um i mean it was a two -way race and she won uh easily and she has flown the rainbow flag from city hall she's put it on the stickers for the police department a police officer who asked to be reassigned so that he would not have to help lead the gay pride parade through the middle of salt lake was terminated and uh the mormon church is scared because the the anti -mormon stuff is using homosexuality as its as its club to beat them over the head with and so they've tried they've tried to make peace by promoting you know and i mean openly supporting having a press conference and saying we are wholeheartedly in support of you know these new laws prohibiting any discrimination well it was those kind of laws that ended up being used against churches in san francisco years ago that ultimately helped lead to the firebombing of the orthodox presbyterian church there there are protections against churches here but not against individuals or not for individuals by the way you might find this interesting but my landlord here in carlisle pennsylvania was a pastor there at the first opc of san francisco before chuck michelhaney was there oh wow tell him i said hi oh well al stever i've heard the name but uh yeah the the the new sexual ethic is basically hitting mormonism at the same time that they've tried to back away from anything offensive to everybody or to anybody um and so you've got guys like um dan reynolds who's the front man for the music group imagine dragons he's a returned mormon missionary and he's very very embarrassed that he used to go out as a missionary and tell people that homosexual behavior was sinful in fact if you pick up right where you left off there with imagine dragons yeah because we have to go to our final break right now it's going to be a briefer one than the previous one so don't go away god willing we'll be right back with jason wallace and more of the homosexual discussion the homosexual seduction of the mormon church are you a christian looking to align your faith and finances then you'll want to check out thriving financial we're not your typical financial services provider we're a not -for -profit fortune 500 organization that helps our nearly 2 .4

01:34:01

million members be wise with money we provide guidance that reflects your values so you can protect what matters most we help members live generously and strengthen the communities where they live work and worship learn more about the thriving story by contacting me mike gallagher financial consultant at 717 -254 -6433 again 717 -254 -6433 we know we were made for so much more than ordinary linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

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that's linbrookbaptist .org hi i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

01:35:48

eastern time on wlie radio www .wlie540am .com

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we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor welcome back we are continuing our discussion now with pastor jason wallace of christ presbyterian church in magna utah on the homosexual seduction of the mormon church if you'd like to join us join us quickly with a question before we run out of time chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris arnson at gmail .com right before the break pastor jason you were talking about imagine dragons and somebody who returned as a missionary repentant of being so harsh against the sin of homosexuality yeah dan reynolds is the front man for uh the pop group imagine dragons it's one of the the top groups going these days a mormon group i've never heard of them yeah you've probably heard their music on commercials and things like this uh uh believer things like this are are pretty popular but uh dan reynolds was a byu student and he's a return missionary uh the original band members all met down in provo at byu well he's he's basically typical of a lot of younger mormons that he he sort of loves mormonism or at least he says he you know says he does loves mormonism it's good for families and things like this but he's opposed to their views on sexuality and so he uh sponsored a concert down in orim utah which is right next to provo at utah valley university uh called the love loud concert that was essentially celebrating uh homosexual youth and the mormon church seems to have been torn about what to do uh they've been torn on a lot of other things but you know they end up basically saying you know we think this is a good event or something like that but without endorsing it but kind of endorsing it and this is this is the line that the leadership seems to be following there they seem to have lost any confidence in any kind of hard stand on much of anything and so uh the boy scouts before that was a great example uh roughly 20 of all the boy scouts and i think it was 30 plus percent of all the boy scout troops uh well 20 percent are lds about 30 percent of the troops are sponsored by lds churches many of them small ones you know rural towns here in utah and things like that but they were a huge part of the boy scouts they didn't after proposition eight and the blowback on that they didn't oppose what happened with the boy scouts um then the boy so i think they probably could have vetoed it or at least clearly broken from the boy scouts when they decided to start allowing homosexual scout leaders but they didn't uh they talked about we're going to re -evaluate what we're doing well that went on for a few years and then earlier this year they announced that they're they're splitting with the boy scouts in terms of their older uh older boys and of course now the boy scouts say they're letting in girls and things like this and there's a question are they going to let the are they going to stay with the boy scouts for the younger uh groups as well but yeah i mean lds make up around 20 of all the boy scouts and the leadership they don't want to offend people and so they'll they'll do something over here to try to appease this group then they'll do something over here to try to appease the other group and it's it's interesting to see what's happening i've watched uh formerly true blue mormons who you know would say we are the one true and living church on the face of the earth now say you know it's not about being right or wrong it's all about love and so it's very post -modern very very emotive um very much what you see in a lot of other groups out there okay we have some questions uh excellent questions from a listener who actually is someone who has been a guest on iron trip and zion radio he's a former mormon who was converted to biblical christianity by the mercy and grace of jesus christ his name is steve cooley he's an associate pastor at bethlehem bible church in west boylston massachusetts and for those of you who are interested the website of that church is bbcchurch .org

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bbcchurch .org but the first question that steve has is is the mormon church's evolution on homosexuality of course we might consider it a de -evolution uh a preview of what we will see in the open but cautious evangelical church in other words if the canon of scripture is still open can we expect to see professing christians embracing the sin of homosexuality like mormons have very interesting question obviously some of that would uh uh require that you're a prophet but but what are your comments on that well i'm neither a prophet nor the son of a prophet but uh i can make an educated guess i think what i'm seeing is that mormonism broad evangelicalism roman catholicism across the board people are surrendering to this juggernaut that's coming at them um the evangelical churches some of them have openly embraced homosexuality some like andy stanley um basically allow practicing homosexuals not only in membership but leadership but then they sort of dance around the issue but they talk about how they're going to um you know we're not going to get into these political things we're just going to preach jesus and sometimes they'll talk a little more pastorally sounding and saying you know well we we don't want deal with those things up front we just want to preach jesus and get people in well the jesus of the bible makes clear um that god defines marriage and he makes clear that porneia is still sinful we deal with all this in an earnest plea to gay christians this idea that uh the just because something's in leviticus means it's gone away not when you look at it in context when you look at it in context you find out that these sexual uh sins were given as the basis for god destroying the gentile canaanites and israel's told if you do them you'll be destroyed and we see them repeated in the new testament we see the um you know matthew vines will talk about how uh we're no longer under the law you know the jerusalem council made that clear well jerusalem council said that we're still supposed to keep ourselves from porneia from sexual immorality and when it start when churches i mean we're seeing it right now with unpopularity i mean i'm i'm i'm demonized as hateful and mean i'm a pharisee i debated the pastor of first baptist felt like a little over a year ago on this subject and and he wasn't sure anybody else was going to hell but he sure seemed to be sure that i was going to hell um because i'm the epitome of evil because i say that sodomy is wrong and uh you know i make clear there's a whole lot of other ways of rebelling against god but this is definitely one of them and so we're seeing people cave already when you see people in danger of losing their tax -exempt status in danger of being locked up for hate speech i think that other than a few reformed baptists uh some orthodox presbyterians and maybe a few uh southern baptists and some others out there um there's not exactly going to be a lot of people standing up against this uh except for the grace of god i personally i hope it's going to be the means that god uses to humble us and refine us and ultimately send revival but yeah the mormons are caving and so is everybody else because everybody wants to be popular we have another question from former mormon steve cooley uh and he says has the lds leadership given any indication that homosexual marriage is soon to be accepted by the church the marriage aspect that's the one area that they seem to be um less flexible at the moment of course that that changes every day as far as um as far as their treatment they used to be very clear you know they they were socially conservative and so they still stood against homosexuality using much of the old language that's changed now they've got a they've got a gay page on the lds site and they they are trying trying to figure out where they're going um they offended a lot of people when they made up a uh some internal rules about how to deal with children living in a homosexual home and things like this and this led to a lot of people leaving the mormon church so they're trying to just avoid publicity at this time i don't see them doing gay marriage anytime soon um for a number of reasons but the mormon church they also you know they gave up polygamy under the threat of losing their property they gave up um blocking blacks from being in the priesthood they've given up a whole host of things and so i don't see them having a lot of firm commitments if things get hard on them uh it's going to be interesting to see what happens with our next president it's going to be interesting to see what happens with our supreme court on the current decision um i mean they already invented they already invented a constitutional right to homosexual marriage um it seems fairly clear that at least four out of the five i mean or four of the nine justices i think that homo homosexuality is more important than religious freedom so we're going to see what happens and uh steve cooley also asks uh why does it seem that an increasing number of mormons are democrats is this just my imagination no not at all besides having a lesbian mayor of salt lake city who's obviously you know big surprise she's a democrat uh the the democratic nominee for the u .s

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senate who got nearly 40 percent of the vote in utah which includes included an awful lot of mormons was misty snow who is a transgender uh grocery bagger at a local grocery store his his one uh thing that made him qualified for office apparently was he is transvestite and got nearly 40 of the vote for the for the not for the state senate the united states senate wow that is pretty remarkable this seems to be going back to what we were talking about before uh about people being more concerned with the feelings of others than the their eternal never -dying souls and of course even if mormons were to maintain a biblical ethic on sexual relations and uh you know marriage between man and woman monogamy for life etc they would still be unfortunately and tragically going to hell if they don't repent of their false religion but it is interesting to see that even they would be falling into this concept of it's more important to avoid risking hurting someone's feelings than to teach truths that your religion has taught for well over a century in the case of mormonism yeah most definitely i mean to a great extent mormon apologetics like a lot of other apologetics out there has been to focus on what's wrong in biblical christianity you know let's kick up as much dust as we can create as much doubt and then we're going to come riding in and present the certainty um the for most mormons when they basically come to the conclusion that the mormon church is no longer objectively true then they they conclude that nothing is objectively true uh even though they recognize that the lds church has been lying to them they still carry many of those lies with them assuming well if mormonism isn't true there is no true church left and mormonism says it's the one true church upon the face of the earth and so you know this is one of the reasons we made the after mormonism now what because uh and then also the mormon after mormon atheism thing because they they've had to have this convoluted idea in the first place of how do you defend mormonism is true and then if if somebody leaves catholicism or a protestant church typically they have some kind of structure of authority that they can fall back on that they still have some sense of reality in mormonism especially here in the inner mountain west you leave mormonism you have nothing left i mean the mormon church was everything to you your schooling your your community everything was connected with that and so there's this temptation to just rebel against everything well thank you so much uh pastor steve cooley of bethlehem bible church in west boylston massachusetts we look forward to you not only sending in more questions in the future but we look forward to you returning as a guest on iron trumpets iron radio and i hope that you and pastor jason wallace develop a friendship as a result of this program i think it would be a very valuable friendship who knows what fruit it may bear um we have a listener a christian in suffolk county long island new york and christian says i don't want you to take this the wrong way but something about the mormon church caving in to liberalism and homosexuality makes me happy and the reason i say that is for the same reason i am delighted with the current pope of the roman catholic church making all kinds of bizarre and heretical statements the reason why i'm saying this is that those that are hardcore believers in those religions may be by the grace of god awakened to the fact that their religions are false and they may be more likely to come to a saving faith of christ god willing and what i actually share that feeling of that uh reaction uh to a degree i'm not like jumping for joy about anybody condoning a damnable behavior but at the same time i think the listener makes a point what do you think about that jason i think it's a double -edged sword on the one hand yes uh it's really really hard to argue that pope francis is is presenting the unanimous consent of the fathers i mean it's really hard with the magisterial authority to contradict uh canon law that he's infallible and and and so was the canon law before when they're clearly contradicting so on the one hand yes um a lot of things are collapsing around us and it does give us opportunity and in the words providence i i take this all as good on the other hand former mormons are some of the hardest people for me to deal with because they've been burned and they've they've been taught a steady diet of objections to christianity and you answer one they've got 20 more you answer those 20 they got 200 more and it's just and they um there is such a resistance to wanting to hear any claims from anybody that um it's a real challenge now god can break through that we've got members who've been through that but it's um personally just my temperament my gifts i find it easier to deal with true blue mormons who are still trying to make it all make sense um the the former mormons um i i've somewhat said tongue -in -cheek and only half joking if i end up dead it's probably not a mormon but a former mormon that did it mormons will come up to me in restaurants even you know we've been off the air for over two years people mormons will come up you're that guy you know they never remember my name but uh or hardly ever remember my name but they'll say you know i love your show i'm faithful mormon but i love your show and i'm like you you understand that i was trying to tell you that joseph smith is leading you out to outer darkness and that you have the wrong god the wrong gospel yeah yeah we know we have our differences but we we like your spirit uh ex -mormons uh i wouldn't cross the street in front of them uh for fear they might hit the gas instead of the the brake on them that's ironic is you might instinctfully uh come to the different the opposite conclusion because you are disproving the teachings of religion that they have already renounced so it is kind of bizarre isn't it yeah well they're typically very hostile to all religion i mean there are exceptions i mean and these are these are the exceptions um most former mormons are not that hostile i don't mean to present that but there are but it's to me it's funny that the most hostile people i've met and i've met some hardcore lds i've i've gotten hate mail but i've gotten far more hate mail and threatening stuff from ex -mormons than i have from active mormons and uh i would like you to now summarize in about two minutes what you most want to be minds of our listeners today especially mormon listeners before we run out of time basically we've created these videos so that you don't have to spend 20 years learning mormonism so that you can feel comfortable talking with someone watch the videos we have a two -hour one we have a 10 -minute one we've got a number of ones in between uh the one that's that's nearly two hours it goes through the gospel very clearly very thoroughly but even the little ones can raise questions we made them so you can watch them and ask a mormon watch it with me or just here here's the address watch these videos get tell me what you think and if you have questions you don't have to have all the answers if you if somebody if they raise a question on something write us call us we'll be happy to help you but um mormons very seldom hear the gospel and yet there are numerous former mormons who heard the gospel some on their missions uh we had these we had our cards out to more missionaries all the time they hear the gospel in their missions they end up coming to faith how else are they going to hear it they're not going to hear it in most places and most people don't want to talk to the mormons and if they do want to talk to them they want to try to woo them and they want to out emote the mormons but they don't want to really talk about what the bible says and who the jesus of scripture is and so i encourage you to watch the videos www .lds

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.video if you have questions call us write us we'll be happy to try to help you but we have the truth and no one who has the truth should have anything to fear amen and people might be puzzled by those that that new kind of url it's not dot org dot com dot net it's dot video lds .video

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correct correct and and go ahead i'm sorry if you just type in lds video it'll take you to the lds church's website if you type in lds .video

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it'll take you to our site okay yeah big distinction and of course the christ presbyterian church of magna utah website is gospelutah .org

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gospelutah .org i want to let our listeners know that i have an interview scheduled for january 11th 4 to 6 p .m