Dealing with Depression from Psalm 42-43 (Frank Mullis)

Ministry Introduction and Conference Announcement

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Okay, we have a bonus episode for you. This is an episode from the Conference that we recently had struggling fraternity recently had on the sanctification through suffering conference. This is pastor Frank Mullis dealing with the topic of depression.

There are many people that struggle with depression many who don't want to admit to it. And I think this message will help you and it will help you to help others as well so please think about sharing this make sure you subscribe to the rap report and If this is helpful to you Not only share it with others, but would you consider?

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We're looking at that post and that article. Another thing that was very Interesting was a lot of people were very interested in God's view of premarital sex part 1 and part 2. Had many hundreds of people that went to check that out and so those are that was actually a blog article by one of our new bloggers and You could check that out.

Very helpful information That and I should say that that was from Ashley Evans, she's one of our new Bloggers, we will have another new blogger that will be announcing shortly probably later on this month, but What was of interest is this month?

One of the number one things that people are going to check out was our article on what is Salvation in Judaism. Thought that was interesting. Another one is what is the afterlife in Jehovah Witnesses and what's the afterlife in Roman Catholicism and.

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Make sure you subscribe to get the rest of the episodes of that. We're gonna drop those in bonus episodes. So without further ado, here's the introduction that I have for pastor Frank mollis of striving for eternity.

Frank Mullis’s Background and Credentials

Last night was great for those. I think it was anyone not here last night. I think I wanted to yeah, cuz you guys were doing VBS or I wanna so we're gonna try. I did get the audios. I did check one of the audios and I think we can amplify it and edit it to get loud enough.

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You listen for next week because we're gonna put them all up there. Frank Mollis is a pastor down in Georgia at Devereux Baptist Church. Been there. I'm. Yeah, I was gonna say 15, but so been there almost 15 years.

He is a full-time counselor of sexual offenders, so he gets to see the worst of humanity on a daily basis. He also runs the Milledgeville mixed martial arts Academy. He's got a black belt in karate and jiu-jitsu.

Second degree or third now in jiu-jitsu first. Oh first, so you got your second from ah, yeah, so. So he's got that used to be a podcaster, but right now he's getting his doctorate and life kind of stops wait.

He's got three full-time jobs. How does life stop, right? But what we want to have him talk up to you about is the issue of dealing with depression and You know. This is a thing that many people struggle with for folks who don't know you may not realize many of your pastors even struggle with it and You know there's people that end up being in positions where they have to kind of hide that.

So this is an important thing to be able to recognize in ourselves to recognize signs. But also to see how we can help others. I did a podcast With Amy Matravadi on the issue of depression and anxiety and one of the things we talked about is that people who go through this often go through it alone because they don't want anyone to know they're struggling and The reality is the one of the biggest ways out of it is to have help.

That's what church is for. All right. So Frank if you want to come on up and you got to check out his shoes check out those shoes.

Personal Background and Counseling Experience

So a little bit about my background in counseling. My senior year of high school I took a psychology class. I kind of enjoyed it so I said hey I'm not going into the military. My dad got very upset when I decided to go to college because I had not taken a lot of college courses and So he had to pay for for college classes that were high school level classes to make up for those who's not too happy.

Met a gentleman Dr. Tom Caldwell, he became my mentor in psychology. So my goal was to eventually become a psychologist now. Little bit of a side note. My grandmother is a Pentecostal. Well, she's passed away.

She was a Pentecostal holiness preacher so that's the other side of my Background and one day she prophesied over me and she said you're going to be a pastor one day I said, nope, I'm gonna be a psychologist and so at her funeral.

I said, hey we were both, right? So So we I ended up my Going to Georgia College. I got a degree in Psychology and at that time decided to go to seminary. When I first went to Southeastern Seminary, it had just switched over from the moderate leanings.

Dr. Paige Patterson had taken it over and The counseling program had been a blended Psychology as Christian psychology is basically what it was as most of you know from that Halfway through the program switch to a biblical counseling program new fetid base.

So I've got the best of both, you know, quote-unquote with that in between so I ended up thinking I was just going to do regular counseling and and Realized that you know, I have my premarital counseling.

I have performed maybe about 12 Marriages and premarital counseling and all of them are still married, which is wonderful, right? Right Brian's. That's why we were connected. However, my marital counseling record is not so bad.

There's a hundred percent divorce rate with my marital counseling. So I said maybe that's not for me. I was feeling really bad until I talked to a marital counselor who did a full-time. He says the success rate in marital counseling is only about 20 to 30 percent by the way.

So it's it's not those of you that do divorce care. You pretty much know that so I ended up of course working with sex offenders now for almost 15 years working in counseling sex offenders that's been my primary thing and I've done quite well with that but You know in in the counseling world we deal with a lot of issues.

I don't deal just with you know comorbidity. That's just the term where people have more than one problem so one of the main problems that I deal with is Depression and anxiety and I usually send them out to other counselors who specialize in that but over the last year I've been working on my doctorate in professional counseling at Midwestern Seminary and so it's one of those issues that you have to deal with this primary issue.

Most people that go into counseling are going for anxiety and depression. Those are two main things that people come into counseling with you as pastors. Know that you're going to deal with depression and anxiety with among your congregation.

They're going to come to you to deal with those things. And so I want to talk to you first about a guy named Joseph Scriven. Joseph Scriven his death. We don't know whether it was an accident or a suicide.

He was in serious depression about the time that this accident happened. He friend reported we left him about midnight or withdrew to an adjoining room not to sleep. But to watch and wait you may imagine my surprise and dismay went on visiting his room.

I found it empty all search failed to find a trace of him. Until a little afternoon and his body was discovered in the water nearby lifeless cold and in death. Joseph was born in Ireland in 1820. His prospects seemed very favorable.

He was educated at Trinity College in Dublin and was engaged to be married, but that's when the first tragedy struck. Ironically his fiance drowned on the evening before their wedding. This was seemingly the first of many misfortunes that led him to consecrate his life and property to Christ's service.

He eventually moved to Canada and began tutoring for a living where he met his next young lady that he was going to be engaged To however shortly before they were married. She became ill and died. How would you respond to this type of tragedy?

He joined the local congregation and began to assist the elderly. His sorrows seemed to make him much aware of the suffering of the poor and weak and he attempted to live out. As I said the Sermon on the Mount he gave or lended to anyone who asked.

Sympathized with all who were more unfortunate than him. He sawed wood for the stoves of the physically Handicapped and comforted the poor. However, his last years were plagued by illness poverty Depression and then on August 10th 1886 He suddenly drowned.

Now his tale wouldn't seem to warrant a page in church history were it for not the fact. He is the man who wrote one of the hymns that must rank among the ten best known and more loved of all time. That he wrote to comfort his mother who still lived in Ireland.

You recommend this. Recognizes him what a friend we have in Jesus. Oh what peace we often forfeit. Oh what needless pain we bear all because we do not carry everything to God in prayer. Are we weak and heavy laden?

Comfort with a load of care. Precious Savior still our refuge. Take it to the Lord in prayer. Do thy friends despise. Forsake thee. Take it to the Lord in prayer. In his arms. He'll take and shield thee.

Thou will find a soulless there. Years later. Iris, thank you the hymn writer and DL Moody's ministry partner. He added this. Have we trials in temptation? Is there trouble anywhere? We should never be discouraged.

Take it to the Lord in prayer. Can we find a friend so faithful? Who will all our sorrows share? Jesus knows our every weakness. Take it to the Lord in prayer. Now before I begin into This lecture I want to note.

Most of this comes from the lecture my lecture notes and reading materials for my doctoral class in advanced biology. By Dr. Larry Cornine. Dr. Cornine says if I was at least 30 miles away I could claim it as my own.

So I just want to give credit to him and other biblical counselors that most of this material rises from. Because it's not my area of expertise, but I I put together this and I think it's been very helpful.

I actually sent him the sermon that I did and sent him a copy and he approved it and said I should write a book. And I was like, well, it's all your notes. It's like. So let's talk about depression and anxiety.

Defining Depression and Anxiety

What exactly is depression? One writer said it involves a complete absence. Absence of effect. Absence of feeling. Absence of response. Absence of interest. The pain you feel in the course of a major clinical depression is an attempt on nature's part.

To fill up the empty space but for all intense purposes. The deeply depressed are just the walking dead. If we look at anxiety and scripture is usually defined as fear. Anxiety is an inner fear of feel of apprehension uneasiness worry and dread and is accompanied by a heightened physical arousal times of anxiety.

We appear to be on alert ready to flee or fight. The Bible often discusses anxiety in two ways. Both are very common. Realistic concern is neither condemned nor forbidden. In scripture anxiety is fret or worry is more distressing.

A core reflects the Lack of confidence in God and a tendency to take burdens on to ourselves instead of giving them over to God. However, this may not be sinful either. The second type is what most counselors and pastors are going to deal with.

One of the things that I mentioned earlier is anxiety and depression are some of the most common middle illnesses or health problems in America. 17 million people in America suffer from depression and that's the clinical level of depression.

25 of us will experience a depressive episode in our lifetime. One website suggests that depression has an impact on nearly everybody if we consider both the depressed people. Family members friends work colleagues and others.

It disrupts and interferes with our normal functioning. Causes problems at work reduces efficiency. It hinders our spiritual growth at times and can destroy family and social life. The impact on the economy is considered to be in the billions and the mortality rate from depression.

People who die from depression Is about 15 anxiety if we talk about anxiety. This is the most common mental illness in the United States. Fear. 40 million adults every year diagnosed with it. About 18 of our population in the United States is diagnosed with anxiety.

It's one of the most common medications I see among my clients anxiety and depression. Going together as comorbidity is not uncommon. Most people who suffer from anxiety suffer from depression and most people who suffer from depression end up suffering from some sort of anxiety.

Basically half of the people are diagnosed with either or. But these two disorders are nothing new. We find them throughout scripture as Job wrote Questions in God and his suffering. David wrote Psalms about it, which we're going to cover today.

Elijah hid in a cave. Jeremiah was known as the weeping prophet. Justin pointed out Jesus weeping with tears. Hebrews points out by the way, I think Paul wrote it through his secretary Luke. So this is my theological opinion there for we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weakness.

But we have one who has been tempted in every way just as we are yet. He did not sin. Let us approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in our time of need.

Church history shows that is not uncommon among pastors. Maldi so afflicted Martin Luther that his melancholy threatened to destroy him. Those of you who if you're a pastor and Reformed, you know. Everybody's got a quote Spurgeon.

Spurgeon after some sermons would curl up in a fetal position in his office and cry some Sundays. He was so depressed. He hid in his home and his deacons had to go drag him to church. I don't know if you knew that about Spurgeon.

Here's what he said. I would I could weep by the hour like a child yet. I knew not why I wept. Recounted Spurgeon. He said a veritable howling tempest in the brain. Malignant sadness. My bones wasted through my groaning all day long.

The unhappiness was like the dust that infiltrated everything. The iron bolt Mysteriously fastens the door of hope and holds our spirits in gloomy prison, but it's not just pain. It feels like meaningless pain.

That is all I want in my life for this pain to seem purposeful if pain leads to childbirth and it is tolerable. But it just leads to blackness or nothing and it threatens to destroy. That's the Prince of preachers.

I have many dear godly pastor friends that are currently going through depression that I talked to about 70 of pastors suffer with depression at some point in 1965. Most of you recognize. Dr. Morton Martin Lloyd-Jones pastor of Westminster Chapel in London.

One of his books that and I would suggest all of you if you get a copy of it called spiritual depression. It's causes and cures became his most popular and widely Circulated books and the reason being is because Christians get depressed too.

Causes of Depression and the Question of Medication

So, of course, there are many depression theories. Why do people get depressed? Why am I suffering with this? Why do I suffer with depression? Most of the theories in the psychological circles go with some sort of neurotransmitter malfunction, you know, whether it's the monomaine hypothesis or the norepinephrine serotonin hypothesis or just the diathesis model depression basically, it's a model of mood disorders that refer to the interaction between experience of stress and a genetic predisposition in other words your genetics and Constitutional predisposition to depression.

That's your lot in life. Some people are more prone to depression because of their physical makeup in psychological circles is called Endogenous depression that there's just something in your physiology much like probably Lutheran Spurgeon that just are depressed.

We have friends. We know people who are just what I call Eeyore, right? You know, I talk about that with my guys and group. I have people who are Tigger. I tend to be a Tigger person, right? My wife, it drives my wife crazy and But there are Eeyore people that we have in our life who that's just how they are.

Oh, it's a beautiful day. It's gonna rain later. How's everything going? It could get better, right? I don't think they'd be excited if they won the lottery. Yeah, I'll probably blow it all. Yeah. They probably would.

On the other hand, there is exogenous depression. This is depression precipitated by life events. We were doing the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast and Apparently Andrew said I've never seen Frank depressed and I'll be honest.

I'm that's not my lot in life. The only the only way I know I'm depressed is if I actually take a depression scale. Y 'all done the Myers-Briggs, you know I've been an ENFJ for my entire life and one time I was taking it and I was I was an INFJ.

And I was like, wait a minute. Something's wrong. I've never been a I'm not an introvert. So I went to talk to one of my professors and he says what's been going on? I said, well, I just went through a breakup.

He says yeah, you're depressed. You know, it was a situational thing stress and exhaustion. That's what I experienced most. I mean as I've gotten older, you know, I drive literally I drive a thousand miles a week.

My 2012 car has 300 ,000 miles on it. So, you know, I'm spending a lot of time in a car, you know, I spent a lot of time Counseling and traveling and so stress and exhaustion and it gets more and more difficult as I get older and you find that too.

You know as I remember, you know Andrews talks about all the things I do and man. My ADD was wonderful for that. You know, I could get a lot of things done as I've gotten older. It's a little bit more difficult and probably the reason I've developed hypertension and other things, you know, so that's part of it.

So, you know you may experience exogenous depression because of you just the inability to say no like me. Of all these theories the most popular of course is the biochemical hypothesis. So I'm going to talk about something that is controversial briefly before we move into the text a few other things.

But let's talk about medications that is the really the split that I found for those when I went from Psychology secular psychology into Christian psychology into the new static the time new static counseling was anti medication.

It really was. You know, and first of all, you know, I'm not anti medication. I work with people who are extremely violent. And they will kill themselves or kill you so be thankful that I put them on meds now I'm not a doctor, but I suggested, you know hey, you need to get a man and I can have them locked up if they become suicidal or or homicidal and You know, I've had guys they get their shots so there is a connection at least in some way that even the Anti physical treatment people there is.

Something with the meds they do something. The problem is we don't know exactly how it works. It's very difficult to measure the chemicals in the brain. There's really not any testing and that's the issue that goes back and forth.

But I've seen the medications work, especially in behavioral especially in suicidal people. We know they work those of you that take them. They you know, they work in some way the problem is is you're usually the determiner if it's working, you know.

That's why they practice medicine, right? Is it working then? Let's give you a little bit more and with any side effects was doing this well, let's put you on a different one and in one of the the issues I really have with the medication is which which which medication dealer came by and offered him a trip to the Bahamas is the next one that they're they're promoting and so what I find is a lot of times my People who deal with behavioral issues they go from one doctor to the next and They didn't tell them that they were seeing another doctor who put on a med and suddenly they're taking meds that are causing interactions.

What's even more interesting is that placebo effect works 20 to 30 percent of the time? And this is where I'm gonna leave you with a medication thing. The question with medication other physical treatments for depression anxiety is not is the treatment right or wrong?

The question is is the treatment wise there are some people as I mentioned with the endogenous depression that the physical makeup. There's something that seems to work better. The problem I have with it is the exogenous depression is that that is the first go-to thing.

It's the first go-to thing. I will use this in one of my counseling situation. And again, this is my kind of my clinical thing. I had counseled this couple through Through the issues that they were having and they followed it.

Listened and went really well the next time they came back for counseling. We're having problems his wife It's began to take some medication. What I find with medication especially when it's the Exogenous problems stress anxiety things going on is that the medication seems to make us not care?

It's just hey who cares and so when you stop caring about your problem. That's good and bad sometimes. So what my thing is is just be very careful when it's the first go-to thing that a doctor with very little I mean, that's usually the thing is I'll find me.

What do you say? Well, he didn't really say I need counseling just said I need a meds be very careful with that. That's that's my thing is just be very wise when your doctor's first treatment method for your anxiety or depression is medications.

So with all these theories of treatments and medication. How about this many depressed people. People with anxiety don't even entertain the thought of getting well. In this book I was reading it says Depression is not a feeling it's their identity.

What would Eeyore be like in Winnie the Pooh if he wasn't Eeyore? Helen wouldn't be what he the question we need to ask a depressed person. Do you want to get well? And it should you should ask them. Make them step back for a moment and think about it is that if that's true some things in their life may have to change.

Some depressed people is their belief system. This is who I am. This is who identify with this is how people recognize me. They often get attention from it. And so if they get rid of depression, they seem to be getting rid of a part of themselves.

However, many depressed people say they want to get well, but they reject every way out man. If I get rid of my depression I won't be able to hold on to my anger or my bitterness and if I get rid of this depression I may have to forgive them if I get rid of this depression.

People may not pay attention to me like they used to. Depression is oftentimes for some people way to avoid things man. If I'm not depressed, I may have to get a job. May have to get complicated relationships.

You know, I don't want to deal with people. I may have to confess my sin or other responsibilities in life to give up depression. Means that they have to not avoid things. They don't want to avoid. Unbelievable as it might sound some people prefer their depression over getting better.

It's convenient. At least they know it. When I first started Counseling I had to meet the person's partner. We would have to talk and make sure they understood that the person had committed a sex crime and they weren't allowed to be around children and things of that nature and I began to talk to the partner and found out that the women that they were bringing in.

Were molested as children and they would tell me yes I understand it. I was molested as a child and I scratched. I began to scratch my head. I couldn't make sense to me. Why is a woman who's sexually abused?

Wanting to be with a sexual abuser. So I called up my supervisor when I passed away and I said Can you please explain this to me? I have no clue understanding how this doesn't make sense to me. She says it's very easy Frank.

All you have to remember is this familiar? They know how to respond to that type of situation. They know how to deal with someone like that. So let's move into from the physical side of depression to the spiritual side because we as Christians understand there's a such thing as spiritual depression and through the Scriptures that seems to be what most of the people in scripture experienced.

It's different from psychological depression. But understand they can be connected. If we talk about the doctrine of man, I'm I believe man is a unity. I'm not a trichotomist or an icon. I believe we're unity.

I believe that we're one and I believe everything is connected. And so spiritual depression seems to be the absence of God's delighted presence. So to ward off it we must put the two last words together God's delight and presence.

This goes back to what we were talking about last night. Who are we in Christ Jesus? Who are we in the sight of God? This is a theological understanding when we deal with depression is understanding that it's very easy for us To think about ourselves and stop thinking about God and I want to say this at least from a Jonathan Edwards standpoint if God for One moment stop thinking about us.

We would cease to exist. We end up even as Christians even if you know. You want to hold to an Armenian view or Pelagian view ever what's your understanding but is in the reform view salvations of the Lord, but what we oftentimes find is that in Christianity we believe that Sanctification is becomes a workspace system we forget that God is part of sanctification and if we're talking about Sanctification through suffering one of the issues that is part of this is that God not only Died for our past sins and our present sins, but you know what he died for our future sins, too Jesus died for your future sins.

Brother Eric and I we were talking is one part of Christianity that I missed and it's probably from bad theology of Southern Baptist. We spent a lot of times talking about Propitiation that Christ died for my sins and that's what I understood.

And so what I believed and it's probably incorrectly maybe just ignorance on my part. What I believed is I was responsible to be good as a Christian. And so I turned Christianity post salvation into a moral belief system that God loved me as a Christian based on my goodness.

And how good I could be. I just didn't work and fit. With the way my mind worked you understand because there was still sin that dwelled in me. I think that whole verse about Paul there is post salvation.

I don't think it's free. I really don't and what I understood is the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Changed my understanding of my morality post is that no matter how much I sin Post-christianity or how good I was that God still loved me and if you're a believer He still loves you that when he looks at you.

He doesn't see your sin. He sees the robe of Christ's righteousness. He sees you in Jesus. That's the impact. That's the impact of the gospel post salvation is that he loves you. He loves you a lot of hellfire and damnation that we hear Paul Washer scares me, too I promise you but I'm telling you your morality does not dictate God's love for you as a child of Christ.

There is no condemnation. There is no condemnation. That is the wonderful news for Christians that he loves you with the greatest love that is possible that agape love that we hear through Scripture and so as we look at our Depression again as I just got off on a preaching tangent if you want to find one of the best Christian counselors out there.

It's Ed Welch you need to anything that you can get on Ed Welch as a pastor for pastoral counseling or if you're a counselor or you just Want to read whether it's drugs alcohol Depression. Ed Welch is the go-to guy biblical counselor and here's what he said.

How can you determine if depression has a physical cause or a spiritual cause? Well, I'm going to summarize it like this. There are two types of counselors. My supervisor. She was like a mechanic who liked to tear apart the engine find the cause of the engines failure.

Which could take a long time and then she would begin to teach you how to rebuild the engine put it back together. I tend to like be on the other side. It's easier to pull out the old engine and put in a new one, right?

Get rid of the old way of thinking and start thinking new. It's a lot faster in my opinion, but both work. But here's the thing Ed Welch says it doesn't matter if it's a physical cause or a spiritual cause.

You're going to treat people and deal with people in the same way the Apostle Paul speaks of the spiritual depression like this in 2nd Corinthians we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed perplexed.

But not driven to despair persecuted but not forsaken struck down but not destroyed. Always carrying the body the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our bodies. And this is what Justin was saying.

We got right to the edge and he holds right that illustrates it. I'm going to steal that and I'm not going to give you credit. Okay, so. Right. So look depression is profound. It's devastating. It is not permanent.

Even if you stay depressed for 70 years, that's it. The hope of glory is coming and you'll never be depressed again because he's gonna wipe away the tears and sadness. That's the hope by the way Philippians just throw in some anxiety there where we talk about don't worry.

Right, one of the problems with counseling people when we point out sin is worry. Guess what your counsel is gonna do. They're gonna worry more because now they're sinning so it adds to it. What I believe Paul says in Philippians when he says be anxious for nothing, right?

Don't worry. He's saying hey God's got in control. Why worry. In other words, there's no reason for us to worry. There's no reason for us to fear. God's got it. So let's go to the text the fourth century BC Hippocrates gave the first clinical depression description called melancholia.

But 500 years earlier King David gave a door biblical and vivid description of the emotions in Scripture. You don't see the term depression. You will see much of the terms such as torn down broken down things like that.

We're gonna look at Psalm 42 and 43. We're gonna exegete a little bit. It's a psalm of distress the Psalms in trouble. Even though it's not mentioned that it's David some like Calvin maintain. It is some see it post going through with Absalom what David was going through.

But mostly most people think that it was during his exile. From Saul and his lamentations centers not only his loss of family and home. But it being deprived from access to the sanctuary. So turn to Chapter 42 of Psalms and 43 and we'll look at it.

I'm gonna divide it up. I'm gonna give you the symptoms of depression and I'm gonna show you the cure for depression according to the psalmist my tears. Verse 42 3 my tears have been my food day and night while they say to me all the day long.

Where is your God now what we were saying earlier? Where's your God? Now what he said when you're in a bad trouble you you ask yourself. Notice he says my tears have been my food. Crying spells is indicative of depression.

If you've been depressed, you know that you cry oftentimes for no reason. What he's saying is I'm really lacking the spiritual nourishment of God's presence here. There are many Psalms that talk about my God my God.

Why is thou forsaken me? Where is your God? We see that it seems to be worse than because the presence of God seems foreign to us. That's why we need a good thought of theology of eminence and transcendence, right?