Provoked: Faithful Servant - Interview with Sherry Pierce

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Brothers, what we do in life echoes in eternity.

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I mean, this is what's wrong with the Christian church today. We don't know who God is, and we don't know who we are.

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This is where we hold them. This is where we fight. Officer, you need to repent of your lawless conduct.

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You don't know the law, and yet you pretend to represent it. That's not law enforcement, sir.

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That's being a thug. We will not stop fighting and bothering you all until this monstrous, barbaric practice of legalized abortion ends, and we are teaching our children to do the same.

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God's word says that the shed blood of innocent humans cries out for justice, and mark my words, they will have their day in court.

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Nobody gets saved by being treated nicely. They get saved by hearing the gospel.

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Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. If we don't open our mouths and commend

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Christ, we're not loving Him, no matter what we're doing with our hands.

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Hi, this is Desi, and you are watching another episode of Provoked. And I'm missing my brother and co -host.

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He's out for the day, but I am joined by a very special guest. And I'm so incredibly honored to have

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Sherry Pierce. Hi, thank you for having me. It's my honor. Oh, me and Zach love you so much.

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And we're just, we could not wait to have you on. You're seriously one of our heroes of the faith. I know you don't want to hear that.

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No, but I love you guys so much. So it's a mutual admiration. We're just on the show.

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I love you. I love you more. Well, thank you for your time coming on.

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So the purpose of our show is to provoke or stir the brethren onto love and good works in the area of evangelism, abortion, male ministry, defending the faith, destroying cultural idols.

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So that's what we're going to talk about today. And before I do that, I just wanted to encourage our listeners to get

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Apology at All Access if you haven't already, because you're just going to be blessed by all the content. And you can sign up for Bonson U for free and get some amazing, just incredibly amazing seminary level lectures.

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And just wanted to thank everybody that came out to ReformCon. It was such a blessing and we had such a blast.

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And it was so cool to meet so many of you from actually all over the world. And yeah, we're still kind of reeling from it.

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It was just so much fun. So thanks to everybody that came out and said hi and gave us encouragement and love. But I'm going to get started on this episode because we have a lot to talk about and not that much time.

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So I just wanted to start off with just your testimony. Sherry has been a faithful evangelist and abortion minister here in Tempe.

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Not just Tempe, but kind of all over Arizona? Yeah, kind of. In different places. Right. So do you want to just start off kind of just giving your testimony?

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And I know you had a prayer that you wanted to open up with, and then we can just go from there. I do. Okay, sure.

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Yeah, I wanted to read from Piercing Heaven Prayers of the Puritans. This prayer just really touched my heart today.

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And honestly, evangelism, abortion mill ministry, no matter what we're doing, it doesn't matter how eloquent we might be or think we are or how equipped we may think we are, if God doesn't do a mighty work in the heart, nothing happens.

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And we need him. And so I just wanted to read this. Oh Lord, how insufficient

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I am for this work. With what will I pierce the scales of Leviathan or make my heart, hard as a millstone, feel what you desire it to feel?

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Will I go and speak to the grave and expect the dead to obey me and come forth? Will I make a speech to the rocks or lecture the mountains and move them with arguments?

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Will I make the blind see? From the beginning of the world, no one has ever heard of opening the eyes of a person born blind.

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But Lord, you can pierce the heart of the sinner. I can draw the bow at random, but you direct the arrow between the cracks of the armor.

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I come in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel. I come forth like David against Goliath to wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with rulers and cosmic powers and spiritual forces of evil of this world.

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This day let the Lord defeat the Philistines. Take away the armor from the strongman and give me the captives out of his hand.

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Lord, choose my words, choose my weapons for me. And when I put my hand into the bag and take out a stone and sling it and carry it to the mark, make it sink, not into the forehead, but into the heart of the unconverted sinner.

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Take him to the ground like Saul of Tarsus. Lord God, help. How can

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I leave them this way? If they will not hear me, still I pray that you will hear me.

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I pray that they might live in your sight. Lord, save them or they perish. My heart would melt to see their houses on fire when they were fast asleep in their beds.

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So is my soul moved within me to see them endlessly lost? Lord, have compassion and save them out of the burning.

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Put forth your divine power and the work will be done. Slay the sin and save the soul of the sinner.

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Amen. And that's by Joseph Alene. Wow. Isn't that powerful? So powerful. I know. So good.

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And what this book is called? It's called Piercing Heaven, Prayers of the Puritans. Beautiful.

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Thank you for sharing that. Yes, of course. I was like, I need it for this podcast too. Oh, that was perfect.

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Yeah. Amen. Thank you. Yes, of course. Let's just start. You can go as far back as you'd like, or if you want to start off as your childhood, but just kind of bring us through your testimony.

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My testimony. Okay. So as a child, we moved a lot in my life. My family, my parents, they'd buy old houses.

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They'd fix them up. And then just when they were perfect, we'd sell them. And then they'd buy another old house. And usually someone had died in the house.

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It was always so fun. And they'd fix them all up and then they'd sell it. And then they'd buy another one.

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And we'd start the whole process over again. So by the time I was 16. And that was here in Arizona? It was in Illinois, started in Illinois.

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Oh, Illinois. Okay. And then we moved to Arizona. But by the time I was 16, we'd moved 16 times.

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Wow. And so consequently, we moved around a lot. And we had a strict household.

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My dad was an abusive alcoholic. Oh. And I don't say that to dishonor my dad, because praise

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God he's with the Lord now. But I say that to make my testimony make sense as I share it.

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Sure. Just historical fact. Exactly. It's just part of it. You know, he had been in the Marines and he was complete with white glove inspections.

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So anyway. So we did go to church off and on at lots of different churches because we moved so often to different places.

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But by God's grace, and I look back on that now, by God's grace, we never went to a cult.

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So praise God. Yeah. Never went to a cult. We went to lots of different churches. Maybe didn't hear the gospel, but we didn't go to a cult.

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And I look back and in God's sovereignty, I'm sure we heard the gospel because one of the churches was actually reformed.

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I didn't even know that. I was a little kid. I didn't even know. I'm learning these catechisms, but I don't know. But God's word doesn't return void.

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So I'm very thankful that my parents took us to church. But when I was 12, my parents got a divorce and I had the opportunity to go to a church camp with a friend of mine.

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And at the church camp, I asked Jesus in my heart. I didn't know that I even needed to do that.

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Church was just something you did on Sunday. It wasn't something you lived throughout the week. You just did it on Sunday.

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And so I asked Jesus in my heart and I was sincere and I was just like, oh,

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I was just so on fire and I bought the record. Okay, I'm aging, I'm dating myself here, but I bought the record that the guy who did the praise and worship.

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Records are like getting vinyls now. Okay, it's cool. All right, so I'm cool again. I have to have my kids and my nieces and nephews tell me these things too.

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So now you're cool. Yeah, okay, cool. So I played the record all the time and I love music.

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And I would just belt out those songs at the top of my lungs constantly. I would read my

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Bible continually. And after a couple months, I drove my poor mom crazy and she was like, okay, that's enough.

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You know, knock it off. I don't want to hear it anymore. So I did, I did. And we would go to church periodically, but not consistently.

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And there was no real relationship, right? So I ended up getting married early. I was 19 years old, so I got married fairly young.

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And by the time I was 24, I had given birth to three children, three wonderful children, and I had had three miscarriages.

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And my oldest child was three and a half. Okay. And I was unhappy. And you know, the world tells you, well, honey, you need to be happy.

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It's all about you being happy. And if you're not happy, those poor little children aren't going to be happy. Right. And I just fell into that mindset.

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And so when I was 26, I divorced my husband and my children were five, three and turning two.

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And I started working out, getting in great shape, but I started partying and drinking and doing drugs and living the life that goes with those things.

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And then I had a new boyfriend. And I was on top of the world. I got a new job. I was a driver for UPS.

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And I was thrilled. I loved this job. You're talking about idols, Desi. I loved this job because I could stay in shape.

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And I made great money, probably not in comparison to what they make now, but it was at that time.

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That was a long time ago. I made great money. And I had a brand new car. And my boyfriend and I had gotten married.

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Larry, he's a wonderful husband. We've been married for almost 35 years now. Praise God. Praise God. But I had all these wonderful things.

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And I was idolizing the wrong things, right? I had precious children, but I was idolizing all the wrong things.

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And you're 27, 28 about this time. Yeah. Yeah, I'm like 28. And then

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I developed a heart condition. And it was very debilitating. At 27, 28?

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Yeah, I almost lost my life. That's so young to develop something like that. It was horrible. It was horrible.

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And it was very painful. And suddenly I couldn't work. I couldn't exercise. And then they put me on medication that caused me to gain a lot of weight and deteriorated my bones.

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Oh, wow. And now I'm faced with my own mortality in front of me, right? I've got to stay home and start being the mom

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I should have been. And Larry and I, by now, like I said, we'd gotten married and decided, you know, we probably should start going to church.

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These kids need to go to church. The kids need to go, right? Sure. Yeah. So we started going to a nearby church near our house.

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But my dad, in the meantime, he'd gotten remarried. And him and his wife moved close by.

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And they had been actually going to church and had been trying to tell us about it. But my dad was still drinking, so I just didn't really want to hear what he had to say.

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Sure. Excuse me. But my stepmom developed breast cancer.

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And she was dying. And they lived close by. And so since I wasn't working,

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I could go by and visit with her. Well, one day, she was on her deathbed at this point.

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And she couldn't eat or drink. It had been about three weeks since she had been able to. And she asked,

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Larry was with me, she asked if Larry would come in and hold her up because she wanted to sing me her favorite song.

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And so Larry held her up. And she started to try to sing. And she started to try to clap.

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But her hands weren't matching up. And she began to sing. And I couldn't understand what she was singing.

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And so I called my dad in. And he said, oh, she's singing, Fear Not. So my dad began to sing and clap.

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And he sang, Fear Not. For I am with you, fear not.

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For I am with you, fear not. For I am with you, says the

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Lord. She's trying to sing that to me. Dizzy, I will never forget.

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In her eyes, as she was singing, her eyes held more life. And she was dying than mine did.

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And I was living. And my dad said, right after that, he said, oh, wow, the

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Holy Spirit really did something in this room. And I'm thinking, what is he? He is, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

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But in the weeks that passed after she passed away, my dad asked us if we would go to his church with him because it'd be his first time back to church without her.

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And so we went. And I was so moved by the music and what the pastor said, even though I don't even remember what he said.

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But I just remember that in the weeks come after that,

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Larry was an avid fisherman. So on the weekends, we didn't have the kids. Lots of times, he'd go fishing. So when he would go fishing,

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I would go to my dad's church with him. And one day, I felt really drawn, like,

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I think we're supposed to go to my dad's church. And Larry was home, and we were getting ready for our church.

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And I said, honey, I just really feel like we're supposed to go to dad's church. I don't understand, but I think we're supposed to go there.

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And he's like, no way. You just want to go there because your dad's there.

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I go, no, if anything, I don't want to go there because my dad's there. But I feel like I'm supposed to go there.

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And he goes, well, I'm not going there. And so he got ready for our church, and he left without me. And it was like within walking distance, so I could keep picking out the window, thinking he's going to come back.

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But he didn't. And I was so sad, and I was thinking, God, why would you have me go to my dad's church?

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Like, I could lose my husband over this. But I couldn't put my finger on it. But I went ahead, and I went to my dad's church.

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And the pastor gave us a special silent prayer time. And honestly,

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Desi, the Holy Spirit just convicted me so much of my sin. My heart was broken, and I just cried out to God.

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And I was like, God, I'm so sorry. I have messed up my life. I already have one failed marriage.

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And I love Larry so much, but I need you to be first in my life. I want you to be first in my life.

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And if I lose Larry because of this, please give me the strength to get through it. And when

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I opened my eyes, Larry was sitting behind me. And that was October of 1994.

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And my life changed forever from that moment on, forever. No turning back, praise

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God. It was all the work of the Lord. And you know what's interesting? Right after that, they played a song that I had not heard since I said that little prayer when

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I was 12. And maybe you've heard it. It's an old one, but it was, Thank you,

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Lord, for saving my soul. Thank you, Lord, for making me whole.

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Thank you, Lord, for giving to me thy great salvation, so rich and free.

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I hadn't heard that song since I was a kid. Was it on those vinyls? No, it wasn't on the vinyls.

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It wasn't. It was when they sang at the camp. Oh, great. But I hadn't heard it since then. Oh, wow.

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And then they played it. Talk about the sovereignty of God. Oh, yeah. I don't know what happened when

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I was 12, but I know I was saved in October of 1994. Right. Yeah, but God's sovereign hand was on your life the entire time.

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And I really feel like he just shows us those moments where he goes, See, here

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I was there. Yeah, exactly. See, here I was there. I've been here all along. Mm -hmm. Yeah. And I've kept you from doing even more wicked things than you've done.

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Right. Right. Yeah. Oh, praise the Lord. Thank you for sharing that. It was so beautiful. I'm like, oh,

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I don't know why I put makeup on today. I'm crying too. You know what?

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I don't want to ever get over it. Yeah. I don't ever want to get over it. I know they say, well, you know what?

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He's forgiven our sin. And it's cast as far as the east is from the west. But you know what? I need to remember because I don't want to ever get over what he's done for me.

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That's right. Amen. And I think it's so good for us to share our testimony from time to time because it does remind us of our salvation.

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Yes. And it brings up that gratitude and just awe of God's work. Yes. And should compel us to share that because we want that so badly for other people.

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I know. For them to experience that. Absolutely. Of course, I've been to churches too where they're like, just share your testimony.

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And of course, the testimony is not the gospel, but it points, it testifies of the work of God in your life.

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And it's a great bridge for the gospel if you're talking to an unbeliever. So there's many wonderful things that come out of sharing your testimony.

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Right. And you can go right into the gospel from there. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So you got saved.

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And then how did that all lead up to you doing the work of evangelism and abortion ministry?

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Okay. Good question. Okay. So I got saved. And then I was thinking, God, I have wasted my life.

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I have done, I have sown so many weeds and so much bad, bad seed.

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So I became just zealous, zealous for the Lord. So you were, sorry, how old do you think you were when you got saved?

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I was 35. You were 35. Okay. I was 35. So I was like, oh, I've got some teenagers.

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And I, you know, at that time you hear people say, you know, if someone hears the gospel seven and a half times, then they'll get saved.

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Well, so I thought I just need to tell them seven and a half times and then they get saved. So just nonstop.

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In fact, my kids, they dubbed me the church Nazi. I was like all about, you gotta go, you gotta go.

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And my husband wasn't saved at the time either. So it was like, it was a lot. It was a lot on you.

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And, uh, but I just wanted to follow the Lord and live for the Lord. And, and in 2003, I think it was,

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I was an outreach director at a church and we were all going to church, but I was an outreach director at the church.

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And I came across, um, Living Waters. Maybe it was 2004, 2003, 2004, came across Hellspects Kept Secret, True and False Conversion.

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Oh my. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. Right. So I even taught the class at the church and everything.

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Well, then they had an academy and I said, oh, I want to go to that. Ambassadors Academy.

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The Ambassadors Academy. So I went to the academy and I met my dear friend,

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Linda Sampson there, and she lives in this area too. And, uh, she's John Sampson's wife, you know her.

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Yeah. Yeah. So I met her at the academy. We came all the way from Arizona to go to this academy in California.

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And it was just life transforming. I loved it. I came home and I was just like on fire.

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My poor husband did not know what to do. Bless his heart. He wanted to take me to dinner. And we'd been at this evangelism academy, you know, passing out thousands of tracts and open air preaching and sharing the gospel.

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And, and, you know, I was just, I wanted to, but everywhere I went, I was like handing out tracts.

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He's like, okay, settle down, settle down. Like he just wanted to hear about my trip and he had missed me.

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And, you know, take me to dinner. And I remember we went to this Mexican restaurant and, you know, I'm giving gospel tract to the hostess and he's like, okay, stop.

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Like he, his eyes were like, what is happening? Like I, my wife left and I don't know who this person is that came back, but she's crazy.

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And I was sitting at the restaurant table and I thought, okay, I've got to focus. I got to spend some time with my husband.

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And, you know, they bring us the chips and salsa and out of, I'm trying to look him in the eyes, but out of the corner of my eye, my eye goes over.

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I see, I see the, I see the guy giving us the chips and I'm like, hablo espanol?

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And I bust out a Spanish tract and my, my, my poor husband just lost it at that moment. So I was like a bull in a

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China shop for quite a while. It took quite a while to, I don't want to say tone down the evangelism aspect of it, but not be this bull in the

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China shop that walks around that like, oh, but you're not doing this. So you, you know, you have to be so careful with that.

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And, and even coming back to your churches instead of being upset with your churches, because maybe they're not doing what you think they should be doing.

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Instead, coming alongside of them and thanking them for what they do do and try to be a help in that and point them.

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And also with my spouse, instead of berating him, like you should be doing this, it needed to be more of, honey, thank you for allowing me to go and for praying for me.

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And it's amazing what God is doing. And so God really had to do a work in me through all that too,

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Desi, because, oh my. Yeah. It's like that zeal and that fire and it's, it's a great thing, but like anything else, we have to learn discretion.

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And I didn't understand really the sovereignty of God aspect in evangelism.

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So I kind of felt like, you know, everyone's going to hell and unless I'm giving them something, I just got to do this.

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Like it was like this huge. And so when, when I learned the sovereignty of God and became reformed and realized

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I need to evangelize, I have love for the Lord and love for my neighbor, but God's the one who saves.

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I do not save them. Right. There was a relief in that aspect. Amen. I remember being there too, exact same thing when

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I was first saved and not understand like, yes, if people are on fire, you know, in the burning building, I need to go save them.

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Like putting it onto myself, you know? So yeah, like that urgency for the loss, but also resting in the sovereignty of the

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Lord. Amen. Amen. Wow. So did a lot of evangelism through that.

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Had the opportunity to go on a lot of mission trips in other countries and teach Way of the Master there, which was cool.

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Oh, so cool. Russia and Africa and Thailand and Japan.

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And so the Bahamas, there were lots of places I got to go there. And I remember in Africa, they were like, that won't work here.

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Oh, really? But then I was like, you know what? Psalm 197 says that the law of the

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Lord is perfect converting the soul. It doesn't say it's perfect converting the American soul. Right. It's perfect converting the soul.

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Yeah. And after I had the opportunity to share it there, that same person that said that came up and apologized because God's word doesn't return void.

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And this is biblical evangelism. I mean, Ray and Way of the Master and Easy and Mark and all of them, they're just doing biblical evangelism, using the law for the purpose it was intended.

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Absolutely. And so I'm so grateful for their ministry and how it's changed my life and the evangelism opportunities that I've had.

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And we've done it here on the street, and we've gone to lots of different states and had the opportunity to do it.

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So it's great. So that kind of weaved right into with Abortion Mill Ministry.

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So tell me, how did you very first start? Do you remember like the first times going out and what that was like?

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Oh, in fact, today is the 10th anniversary of the first day I went out. Really?

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Today is? Today is November 2nd. That's crazy. Wow. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

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That is. Yeah. Well, happy 10th anniversary. All glory to God. All glory to God. Amen. Amen.

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Praise the Lord for your faithfulness and just giving you the endurance for 10 years to do that.

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Oh, it's by his grace. Yes. It is by his grace. All because of him.

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So I was, in 2008, I think it was, I became a counselor at a nearby pregnancy center.

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Okay. And I was there for three and a half years. And we were teaching the counselors how to share the gospel using

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Way of the Master. We had Way of the Master gospel tracks in there as well. And we, every single time we counseled, we shared the gospel with every single mom that was in there.

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And we saw so much happen. God did so much through all of that. Well, then they had new leadership come in who said, we don't want you sharing the gospel.

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And they took out everything that had to do with God in the place. They didn't want anything to point to the

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Lord at all because they were afraid it was going to scare the girls off. Sure. And I'm like, don't you think that if God brings them in, he's able to keep them?

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And they said, don't share the gospel unless you feel led to. I said, well, I always feel led to because God commands us to.

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Yeah. So anyway, it ended up coming down to a meeting and me saying, you know, this is biblical and this is what needs to be done.

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And we had to basically agree to disagree. And so I left. And I thought,

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Lord, what is it that you would have me do? You know, I guess I feel like you'd want me in this fight, but I don't understand what it looks like.

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And then one day a friend of mine, precious sister Lou Wallach, she called, I think she emailed me.

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She said, sister, do you know anybody who'd like to go to the abortion clinic with me? I go, me?

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I will. And so we started like kind of just checking things out, driving to different places, trying to figure out exactly what we were going to do.

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And we finally settled on that we were going to go to the Tempe Planned Parenthood at Apache and Dorsey at that time.

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And that was 10 years ago today. And we started doing abortion meal ministry and haven't looked back from that.

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But we've learned. I learned so much from Patty and Scott Smith. Right. And they were in Florida at the time.

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And John Barrows and just precious have got to serve with them outside of that abortion meal.

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And so there's been a lot of people that have taught me so much and we've learned so much along the way.

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But, you know. Yeah. And then you've helped like Zach a lot. I know Zach has learned a ton from you and I've learned being out there with you.

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I just feel like the Lord has gifted you in the area of like not only just endurance and going out there and the compassion, but also teaching other people, you know, coming alongside them and encouraging them.

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So thank you for all your work that you've done and continue to do. Glory to God for that. It's such hard work, but it's so necessary.

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And just hearing you call out to mothers. I just remember one of the first times I heard you and it just really stirred my heart of like, this is this is the biblical way to do it.

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This is the loving way. And I know the first time I heard you say something and it really caught me off guard in a good way, but it almost like took the breath out of me as a mother was coming out and she had done it.

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She had the abortion and you said, well, there's no hope for you now outside of faith and repentance in Christ.

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And that was so sobering for me, you know, and it was so it was just like an arrow like this is the truth and this is what we need to be conveying to them.

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And I saw the look on her face too. And I think she had they had pulled off and then you continued the conversation after that and just counseled them and stuff.

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But it broke her heart. I think we were it was when we had moved to the new location, not

29:03

Dorsey and Apache. It was the the one on baseline. Okay, I think I think that's where it was, if I'm not mistaken.

29:11

But anyways, that was just a moment that the Lord really spoke to me personally of like just this is important work, you know, not only to save the babies, but for souls.

29:22

Absolutely. And you know what? I got that from Patty. Yeah, I heard Patty do it in North Carolina.

29:28

And it did the very thing to me that you said that it did to you was it was like, oh, yeah.

29:34

And then you're like, oh, yeah, that's right. Right. And yeah, absolutely. So praise

29:40

God. Praise God. So that leads me to a question. So first,

29:46

I'm going to start with this. For anyone that's listening right now that is just maybe fearful about getting involved in abortion ministry or even just public evangelism, you have any just words of wisdom or encouragement that you could give to them?

30:00

Anything that you're thinking about? Pray, pray, pray, pray and just do it.

30:08

Yeah, just do it. And don't neglect the gospel. Yeah. I mean, we can be all about these good works, you know, like even the things that we provide for the moms, like we can provide things all day long.

30:19

You know that, Desi. Yeah. But if we don't share the gospel, then we have not loved these moms. Amen. Yeah, we have not loved them.

30:26

And when you're evangelizing people that aren't at the abortion clinic, if you don't share the gospel, I don't care how many times you fill their gas tank or you buy them a meal or whatever.

30:35

If you don't share the gospel, then you haven't loved them. That's right. Fill their gas tank. Buy a meal. Do those things too.

30:42

Blessing bags. Yeah. But share the gospel. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

30:48

Yeah. So just do it. Yeah, just do it. Step out in faith and the

30:54

Lord will be with you. And if you want to come to the mill with us, I mean, there's room on the sidewalk, right? Yeah.

30:59

There's plenty of room. There's always room. You can hold a sign. You can be praying. You can pass things out at the cars that are coming in.

31:07

Yeah. There's lots of things that you can do if you're fearful of speaking right at that moment.

31:13

Hand out tracks to people that are walking by. God's word doesn't return void. And so those tracks are little silent preachers.

31:20

Yes. And they go into homes that we can't ever get into. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. It just made me think about, too, a friend of mine who had an abortion as a young teenager.

31:34

She was telling me that at first, when we first met her at this kind of big church, she had told me that she had an abortion and she knew it was wrong, but it wasn't until like,

31:46

I want to say 10 years later, she drove by an abortion clinic and somebody was outside with a graphic sign.

31:53

And it was in that moment, the Lord said, this is what you did. And the guilt was on her.

31:59

And she was like, she knew the gravity of her sin, but also then was set free because she was able to seek reconciliation.

32:06

And so just like you said, you never know who these tracks are going to go home. You never know when you're standing out there, who's going to drive by and what the

32:13

Lord's going to do in that moment. And so just faithfulness is all he's calling us to do.

32:19

It's true. And I don't like looking at those graphic signs myself. But you know, how did we know that the

32:25

Holocaust was so bad? By looking at the pictures, right? Not pictures of beautiful Jewish children. Right.

32:31

But the pictures of the horrific of what had happened. And that's, I think, and I say this sometimes out there, this is the only baby picture this little baby's ever going to have.

32:42

Yeah. And their picture needs to, their life needs to count for something. Right.

32:47

Absolutely. Yeah. And like, I know you've heard the story of Emmett Till. Right. And he was a black boy that was brutally beaten because supposedly he flirted with a white girl, but that was even disputed.

33:04

But even if he did, who cares? But he was brutally beaten because he was black. And for his open casket or for his funeral, his mom said, no,

33:13

I want his casket open because I want the world to see the evil that has been done to him.

33:19

And so when we do that, we expose the evil to shed light on it. Yes. So yeah, that's the work is just so, so important and so needed.

33:27

And I'm so just thankful for you and for folks like, like John Barrows and Patty Smith and others that go out,

33:35

Treva. Go out. Yeah. And just stay at, you know, week after week and just going out, being faithful, not seeking any type of glory or attention or anything like that.

33:47

And I'm just, I think when we get on the other side of eternity, we'll see all that God has done through faithful people like you.

33:54

Oh, well, right back at you, sister, because you guys are so faithful and I'm just so thankful for all of you guys.

33:59

I'm, I'm grateful that you guys continue to be in the battle out there and, and that God brought you guys here at the same time.

34:07

It's just amazing. Yeah. I feel the last couple of years have been a little bit more difficult for me to go out just with the little ones.

34:13

But Dawn goes out and kind of just piggyback, you know, kind of different, different things, but it'll be exciting to go back out soon.

34:21

And yeah, it's just, you know, balancing that motherhood and Zach's out there a lot though too.

34:27

And we get updates from him and our little Knox, he's a, he's a little, he's a little handful.

34:33

He's two now. And so we usually have to take turns who goes out. But like I was telling you before the show started,

34:39

Liam and Dawn have been going out a lot and that's been really neat to just see. That's cool. You know, him in that stage wanting the, having the desire to do evangelism.

34:48

Oh, absolutely. How wonderful. Yeah. Praise the Lord. Oh, amen. Praise God. So thankful for a husband that leads in that area.

34:57

So, okay. So I was going to ask you, I'm like, where do I, where was I going to go after this? So during the reform con, we were asked this question and I wanted to see what you thought and because, because I think it's a very, very important question and I think it's a very important to have a biblical worldview on how we answer it.

35:15

And so the question was asked, are women victims when it comes to abortion?

35:22

Okay. Well, let me say this. I do believe there are some that are victims, but in the 10 years that I've done that, this ministry,

35:35

I can say I've only seen that twice. And with my eyes,

35:44

I mean, obviously I don't know everybody's situation going in there. But I can tell you, and you know too, that that is not the case.

35:56

And it is not the case that they don't know what they're doing. Right. It's not the case that there's no other alternatives because in Tempe, right next door,

36:08

I mean, it shares a wall, is a pregnancy center where everything is free. They have to walk a few feet down to another door and they will not do it.

36:19

Right. Because they want to murder their child. It is very self -centered and selfish.

36:27

And when you boil it down, it is. That's what it is. Right. And so the victims that I see are in the womb that are being waltzed in there.

36:37

That's right. Yeah. Amen. And also usually Christian laborers with signs that say,

36:44

I will adopt your child. And so they're walking past that saying, there's an adoption. I can adopt this child now.

36:52

Yeah. It's hard because, you know, our society right now is really grabbed onto that victim title.

36:58

And really to be a victim right now is it puts you in a higher category of importance.

37:04

So, you know, talking about all these different intersections and intersectionality, you know, as you are a victim.

37:12

As your little list grows. Yeah. You are higher. You are elevated. Absolutely. And so we have to look at the word of God as our standard.

37:19

And I was thinking about this after we talked about our Reform Con. I was thinking if, you know,

37:25

I said the same thing actually as you. I was like, I really have only seen that a handful of times. And all the stats, all the polls, everything points to women are doing this electively.

37:36

They are choosing to do this. Absolutely. And actually like that notion of women are just, they don't even know.

37:44

And they're just victims. It kind of is counterintuitive to the whole feminist thing because it's painting women as like stupid and just led by emotions.

37:51

They're just so ignorant. They don't know. They don't even know that it's a baby. No, they know. They're choosing to do it.

37:57

But I would say after I thought about it, I'm like, if women are going to be called a victim in this area, like you said, the victim of the actual abortion is the baby.

38:09

Unless it's somebody holding a gun to that woman's head, which I'm sure it's happened, or threatening them, you have to have this abortion or else then the woman's not the victim unless it's that situation.

38:21

She may be a victim of rape. So she would be a victim of rape, not the abortion. And that's abominable.

38:28

Absolutely. But making another victim doesn't undo the rape. Right. But I would say more,

38:35

I would say the women are a victim of a society that's told them that they're better off murdering their children than raising them or that they have to murder their children in order to succeed in life.

38:47

Or perhaps men who tell them they're going to abandon them if they don't do that.

38:53

So in that way, I would say that would be more the case of them being a victim to me.

38:58

And I don't even know if I would use the word victim. But a society that's told women, you know, your children are disposable.

39:06

It's better for you to pursue your dreams and not be a mother than do the hard work of mother and all the blessings that come with that.

39:16

I'm not sure if I would call it victim so much as just justifying and telling them what they want to hear.

39:22

Right. So that they can do what they want to do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like it's like there's a relief. Oh, that's right.

39:28

Okay. I can't do this. Yeah. So I'm going to pursue what my heart wants to do.

39:34

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Like a. Yeah. Because that's the word victim. I'm like, that's the only way

39:39

I can think of it. But you're right. It's not. They're choosing to do it. Right. It's really what their heart wants to do.

39:46

Right. Yeah. But. But they know it's wrong. Right. Because our conscience, the law is written on our heart. That's right.

39:51

They know it's wrong. But someone comes along and confirms. Right. What their heart wants to do.

39:57

That's right. And so now they've got they've got somebody confirming that. So it's like, okay.

40:02

Right. I can do this. I mean, I would say too. And when I was in sixth grade, I grew up in the public school system.

40:08

You know, I was told that sixth grade and sixth grade abortion is a medical procedure that you if you find yourself in an unwanted pregnancy, this is what you do.

40:18

And I was never explained the, you know, biological and scientific facts of life beginning at conception.

40:26

And so I really went into a lot of adulthood believing that. And actually, I wasn't until I was pregnant with my firstborn that I looked at an ultrasound at nine weeks.

40:35

And I'm like, oh, no, no. Wow. That's a baby. So I do think there is an element of ignorance as far as indoctrination from the state of, you know, telling young women that this really is just a blob of tissue, because I really thought that for a long time.

40:58

But, you know, still, we still know that as soon as you're pregnant, that is a new life.

41:04

Right. We don't when we take a pregnancy test, we go, oh, I'm going to have tissue. I'm going to. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

41:10

A blob of cells. We don't say that. We don't say that. We still know, even though we've been told that we we inherently know.

41:15

So thank you for your answer on that. Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, the schools who even knows what they're telling our children now.

41:24

Oh, yeah. But that was back in, you know, I graduated in 2000. So when

41:29

I was in sixth grade. Wow. Yeah. In the 90s. But when you think about it, they are painting it as health care.

41:35

Right. Like, you know, that new movie just dropped. It's called The Procedure. Yes. And I'm glad that you brought that up.

41:41

Yeah. It's just a short little clip, but it is so powerful. I was weeping. And then my husband watched it and I could just hear it.

41:48

And I was weeping. Yeah. And I know people that are liberals. You do, too.

41:55

But I sent it to them. And they love to watch medical procedures and all kinds of surgeries and medical shows and stuff.

42:05

But they said, I had to turn it off. Yeah. I can't. I can't watch it.

42:11

You know why they can't watch it? Because it's not surgery. Yeah. It's not medical procedure. Right. It is murder.

42:17

Right. Right. And it's very evident. Yes. And their conscience bears witness to that.

42:22

Absolutely. Yeah. Dawn and I, we knew theoretically what it was going to be, but then we weren't prepared.

42:29

I wasn't either. Yeah. Dawn and I just wept. We were just like, oh my goodness. Right. This is so hard to watch and yet so important.

42:37

Just like that sign. I had to make myself. People need to see. Keep my eyes open and watch it. Yeah. Just like the graphic signs we talked about.

42:44

And the purpose that they show. Our society wants to even tell young kids like me when

42:52

I was a kid and still it's just all over any type of mainstream medical whatever.

43:01

I don't even know what I want to say. Literature. And that the baby in the womb is just not a person until what?

43:09

They're born. Right. It's crazy. So anybody that's had a baby, anybody that,

43:15

I mean, we all know, like you said, we all know. It's just, it's incredible to me that we really do suppress the truth and our unrighteousness.

43:25

We really push it down. We want to do what we want to do. We want to sin. We want to fornicate. We want to pursue our own passions and lust.

43:33

We want to be our own God. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I, you know, I'm old, so I lose my train of thought.

43:39

I was going to say, I don't remember what I was going to say, but I was going to, I don't know. I'm sure it was profound.

43:46

Yeah. I'm sure it was. Well, that was like, I always do that. I'm like, oh, I should have answered it that way.

43:52

Yeah. I just, even on that, the procedure, there was already comments on there. This isn't real.

43:59

And we've had people. Oh, because it's an animation. Oh, and even out of the abortion mail, pictures of aborted babies.

44:05

Yes. And that's doctored. Right. No, that's not doctored. Like, that's really what happens.

44:11

Or people that make just weird comments about, I'm sure you've heard them, about, you know,

44:17

I'm not going to. Some horrible stuff. Yeah. Some horrible stuff. But really, they're not understanding basic biology.

44:23

So, they'll be like, not to be crass, but like, anytime someone masturbates, then that's an abortion.

44:30

I'm like, oh, no, no. Somebody failed you in basic biology about a sperm and an egg, you know, having to meet and what happens during conception.

44:40

Like, that's completely different than an egg and a sperm separated. So, you've been, you're either lying or you've been.

44:48

You slept during that class. Yes. Yeah. Somebody didn't teach you right or you were asleep because, and that hasn't just happened once.

44:55

That's been many times that I've heard those things where I'm like, you're not understanding basic biology.

45:00

Right. So, yeah. Well, and you know, that movie, The Procedure, it's just short. Yeah. I think it's so important for Christians to watch that too, because I think so many times,

45:10

I mean, we do abortion ministry, but I think so many times we can go, I know that's happening in our world and it's a horrible thing, but we want to push it aside and not look at it because we just don't want to see.

45:24

We want to be ostriches with our head in the sand. Right. Yeah. But our nation, our nation, we have murdered like what, 63 million children since Roe versus Wade.

45:35

Yeah. And that's not counting the chemical abortions. I'm not even sure they even count all those. Right. Or the ones that women can get the plan

45:42

B and all the different things. Mm -hmm. We have done that and our nation is responsible for so much bloodshed of these little children.

45:51

And we think we want God to bless us. Yeah. The Bible says, if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways, we always forget to put that little part in there.

46:05

Yeah, right. Then I will hear from heaven. I'll forgive their sin and heal their land. And no matter where we go politically, who's in charge or who

46:14

God puts in place, if we do not turn away from this bloodshed, God's wrath abides upon our country.

46:21

Amen. And rightly so. Yeah. Rightly so. And not a 15 -week thing and none of this.

46:28

We have got to stop this. This is an abomination. Absolutely. Amen. And that should stir us to get out there.

46:37

To open our mouths. Or even for moms that are at home that maybe they can't go out to the mill in this season of their life, just discussing the sanctity of life with their small children so they know at a small age, like, oh, the baby in the womb is precious.

46:52

They're made in the image of God. You were made in the image of God. And so at a very young age, they learn instead of sending them to school and not talking about it.

47:01

And then they hear like, oh, that's just a blob. A procedure. That's just a procedure. So, wow.

47:08

Well, thank you for everything, for coming on today. Absolutely. It's my pleasure. The pleasure is mine.

47:14

And it's seriously such an honor to have you on. I love you so much. I love you so much, too. I love you more.

47:21

No, I love you more. I was going to ask you before we get off.

47:26

Let's see what time it is. Yep. Perfect. If you wouldn't mind giving the gospel.

47:32

I want to ask if you could do it just from the perspective. I know the gospel is the gospel for anybody. Right. Right.

47:38

It's not just for the post -abortive mother or the mother that's going in. But you are out there a lot with doing this work.

47:45

So if you are outside of the clinic or the mill, and that's what it really is. Yes. Exactly.

47:52

And the mother was either going to go in to do it, and you're trying to talk to her or coming out.

47:59

How would you present the gospel in that moment? And it might be different in those two scenarios.

48:05

Right. Right. So when I'm talking to a mom, as opposed to maybe on the speaker, if I'm talking to a mom, she's come over.

48:12

She's talking to me. I'm finding out the information about her and her pregnancy and her baby and all of that.

48:18

And I'm trying to meet whatever needs that I can and plead with her for the life of her child and remind her that God commands us not to murder.

48:28

When I get through with that aspect of it, then I'm going to say, honey, this pregnancy, and it may or may not be a crisis to them, but usually if they're at the abortion mill, it's a crisis to them.

48:40

Sure. Yeah. I know this is a crisis to you, and you're not sure where to turn or what to do. But I want you to know that the greatest crisis you're ever going to face is you're going to stand before God and you're going to give an account for your life and for this baby's life.

48:56

And just like that pregnancy test is able to detect whether or not you're pregnant, there's actually a little test that can detect whether or not you're good enough to go to heaven when you die.

49:04

Yeah. And your soul is so precious. Would you mind if I ask you a couple questions to see if you'd be going to heaven?

49:11

And I've never had them say no. And they'll say, yeah, okay. They'll say, okay, the standard is the

49:18

Ten Commandments, because that's God's standard of goodness. Right. You know, you've been very nice to me, but I'm not going to be judging you on that day.

49:25

I have to stand before God myself. So one of the commandments is, have you ever told a lie? Of course she has.

49:32

So what does that make you? A liar. Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of the value?

49:40

Usually they have. What does that make you? A thief. Have you ever taken

49:46

God's name in vain, used it as a cuss word? It's very serious to God. It's an OMG. You know, it's blasphemy.

49:53

You know, the Bible says he won't hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. And we'll just look at one more. Jesus said, you've heard it said of all not to commit adultery, but I tell you, if you even look with lust, you've committed adultery of the heart.

50:05

Have you ever done that? Are you married, honey? Usually not. Well, then you've been fornicating, haven't you?

50:12

You've been having sex outside of marriage. And so we've only looked at four of the Ten Commandments. There's still six more.

50:19

So you've admitted to me that you're a liar and a thief and a blasphemer and an adulterer at heart. You're fornicating.

50:25

And so when you die, and it's fair to say you could die today. You know, I hope not. But when you die, if God judges you by the

50:32

Ten Commandments, do you think he'd find you innocent or guilty of breaking his law? You never know what they're going to say.

50:39

Sometimes they say innocent, sometimes guilty or whatever. If they say innocent, then

50:44

I want to know why. Why? Well, because God's forgiving. Well, let's try that in a court of law.

50:52

You're standing before a judge. You've been found guilty of multiple crimes. You've just confessed to them. And the judge says, you're guilty.

50:58

You've just confessed, and the law has found you guilty. What do you have to say for yourself? And you say, but judge,

51:03

I know you're a forgiving judge. I've heard about you. You're very forgiving, and I'm really sorry.

51:09

Do you think a judge, if he's a good judge, is going to let you go just based on that? Well, no. A good judge is going to make sure that justice is served.

51:17

And how much more a holy God, who's already said all liars are going to have their part in the lake of fire, no thief, no blasphemer, no adulterer is going to enter the kingdom of heaven.

51:27

Now, do you think you'd be found innocent or guilty? Well, they know they're guilty. Do you think he'd reward you with heaven?

51:33

Or do you think he'd punish you with hell? And hopefully, by then, they say hell.

51:39

And if not, if they say heaven, then I want to ask why. Why? Because I want to reason with them a little bit longer, right?

51:46

Because it's law to the proud and grace to the humble. And if they haven't been humbled by the law yet, then you're going to continue in that area for a little while longer.

51:55

And then I want to describe hell. Hell's a horrible place, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm never dies and the fire never quenched.

52:04

I don't want that for you. Do you know what God did for you so that you don't have to spend eternity in hell?

52:10

He did something very special. Do you know what it is? 2 ,000 years ago, God sent his son, Jesus Christ.

52:16

He was fully God. He was sinless. He was perfect. He was tempted in every way that we are. But he did not sin.

52:23

And Jesus willingly went to that cross. He died. He was buried. But on the third day, he rose again.

52:30

And he defeated sin and death once and for all. And Jesus said this. He said, unless you repent, you will perish.

52:38

Repentance is turning away from our sin and turning towards God. But repentance doesn't save us.

52:43

Jesus said, unless you're born again, you will not see the kingdom of God. We must be born again. And that only happens through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

52:51

So, honey, please, do you think, have you ever known anybody that has died young?

52:58

Of course they have. So it's fair to say you could die today, right? 150 ,000 people die every day, two per second.

53:06

And that's not counting abortion. So if it's fair to say you could die today, when should you get right with God?

53:14

You know what? There's no magic in the words. There's no magic prayer. You cry out to God, please, today, before your head hits your pillow.

53:23

You cry out to God. You tell him how sorry you are. Ask him to wash you clean. To give you the gifts of repentance and faith.

53:31

And you trust in Christ. And God will never let you down. If he causes you to be born again, the

53:37

Bible says you'll be a new creation in Christ. The old will be gone. The new will come. You'll no longer love evil and hate good.

53:43

You will love what is good and you will hate what is evil. And then when you stand before God on that day, you'll be found righteous in His sight.

53:51

Not because of anything that you did, but because of what Jesus Christ did for you. That, honey, is amazing grace.

53:57

And then if you get right with God, you go to a Bible -believing, Bible -teaching, preaching

54:02

Christian church. And I can give them, you know, suffering in church. And you go up to the pastor and you say,

54:09

I just got right with God and I need help walking this life out. And we're here to help you. We're here to walk alongside of you.

54:16

That is amazing grace. It's unfathomable love. But please, honey, don't wait.

54:24

Don't wait. Because when you die, if you are found in your sin, God will give you what you deserve.

54:30

So repent. Trust in Christ while you still have breath. Love God. Fear Him. And raise your baby to do the same.

54:37

And that's the best parenting advice that I can give you. Amen. Amen.

54:44

Amen. Thank you for sharing that. Yes. So clear and simple. I think the ability to share that, just that clear, simple gospel message is so powerful and needed.

54:58

You know, I think sometimes we can muddy it with our own opinions and our own this. But just being able to tell them the truth that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

55:07

And just to express that simple gospel message is what God calls us to do. Amen. And so I'm thankful for that.

55:14

Thank you for sharing that. I mean, if you're listening and you, I remember when I was first saved, I'm like, kind of knew,

55:20

I knew the gospel, but I didn't really know how to articulate it. And so even if you want to just save that part, you can kind of go back to it.

55:27

And the more you say it, it's kind of like lifting weights. You know, the more you do it and the more you kind of rehearse it, the more fluid it becomes.

55:36

And it just, I remember just being like so nervous just to share the gospel. But really,

55:42

God makes it so simple for us. He does. He does. And you know, this has become,

55:48

I mean, I have lots of favorite scriptures. You probably do too. But this one

55:54

I love to share at the mill, especially on the speaker.

56:01

Because you don't get a lot of time, you know, and then so you're calling out. And so after the mom has gone in, you're going to call out.

56:07

But I want to talk about the holiness of God and who he is. And he's not the man upstairs winking at our sin.

56:14

Right. And he's going to punish sin. And so I'd like to use 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 10 and then through 11.

56:22

Because this scripture is so convicting, but yet it's so encouraging too. So it says,

56:45

And then it says, That was me,

56:58

Desi. That was you. Me too. And I'm just so grateful.

57:03

And that can, whoever's listening, that can be you too. That's right. If you don't know the Lord, if you've never repented and trusted in Christ, if you're part of this list or many things in this list, or this isn't even an exhaustive list because Revelation 21, 8 says,

57:25

And that's still not exhaustive because God is so holy that he judges even our thought life.

57:32

I mean, nobody can stand. He's numbered the hairs on our head and he's numbered our days. And so none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

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And the Bible says it's appointed men once to die. And after this comes the judgment, there are no second chances.

57:46

So if you're hearing this today and you are not right with God, please repent, trust in Christ while you still have breath and live and let your baby live.

58:00

Amen. Thank you, sister. Oh, thank you. Praise the Lord. Thank you for coming on.

58:05

I think I'm just going to close with that because I think what's more important than that?

58:12

There's really, we can talk all day, but the gospel. God's word. God's word is the most important.

58:17

God's word is the most important and exalting Christ. Absolutely. And when we see it out there, when we share the gospel, because people always want to know what's happening.

58:29

Like what's the fruit of what you guys are doing out there, right? Sure. Well, the gospel is being shared, right? So if God chooses to save babies or he chooses to save souls, praise the

58:38

Lord. If he chooses not to, praise the Lord because God deserves a praise no matter what.

58:44

Absolutely. No matter what. He's doing a work. And like you said, God's word never returns void.

58:49

That's right. And so he's doing a work and we're not going to see what it is all the time. And we just trust.

58:56

Is there a way that our listeners could support you? Is that even possible? That's so sweet.

59:05

We have a ministry name, but it's only for the sake of support because we want

59:14

Jesus's name to be the famous thing. So people do support like through my church and they just earmark it for refuge in the desert.

59:27

But otherwise I don't do social media. I'm a dinosaur. If they look up refuge in the desert, can they?

59:33

They wouldn't find anything. They won't? Oh. So they would send it to First Baptist Chandler.

59:39

Okay. Yeah. And then mark it refuge in the desert would be how they would do that. Great. And they of course can just be praying for you as you continue your work.

59:48

Yes. I appreciate that. We desperately need prayers and we just want to be true and faithful witnesses and out there and to point people to Christ.

59:59

Yeah, absolutely. To point them to Christ. Oh, Cher. Oh. Zach calls you

01:00:04

Cher bear. I know. He said that. I said, I've never heard him call me Cher bear. How funny is that? Yeah.

01:00:09

He loves you so much. I know he was so sad not to be here, but he's - I'm so sad he's not here too, but you know, maybe another time.

01:00:17

Yeah. We'll definitely have to have you back on again. That would be great. Lord willing, if you have time, but we would love to just pick your brain more.

01:00:24

Pick my brain? Yeah. There's not much to pick. Yes, there is. Well, I hope you guys were as blessed as I was by this conversation.

01:00:34

And yeah, just be praying for Cheri and I pray that you would just kind of think about what you heard today and, you know, maybe listen to it again.

01:00:43

And if you're really feeling called to do this type of work, just step out in faith. That's what

01:00:49

God calls us to do. He doesn't call us to be perfect at anything. Thank God.

01:00:54

He just calls us to be faithful in where he has us right now. I know we talk about this a lot, but, you know, if you're a mom listening to this or maybe you're at work and wherever God has you, whatever gifts he's given you, we're called to use them for his glory.

01:01:11

And so we don't have to worry about really what we sound like. Of course, we want to excel at what we do and we want to be rooted in God's word.

01:01:20

So being in God's word is so important because that's going to give you wisdom and insight.

01:01:27

But I think sometimes we get caught up in like, I don't I haven't been walking with the Lord that long or I'm not articulate or I'm shy or I'm an introvert.

01:01:36

God is God is our strength. And if you have the Holy Spirit living within you, he has empowered you to share the gospel and to be the light that he's called you to be.

01:01:46

So I just encourage you today, whatever you're doing, wherever you're listening from, wherever you're listening from, just be faithful and trust that Jesus is going to be with you.

01:01:55

That's another episode of Provoked. And hey, like us on our social media, give us a like and review.

01:02:01

We are slowly but steady kind of growing and we're just so thankful for all of your messages of encouragement.

01:02:09

And we're just going to keep doing this as long as the Lord will have us do it. But we just thank you to everyone who's been faithful, faithfully listening.