June 6, 2016 Show with Paul Flynn on From the Kingdom of Satan to the Kingdom of Christ: The Testimony of an Idolater of Metal Music Rescued from his ‘Religion’

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Afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this sixth day of.

June.

2016 and We are so delighted to have back on the program Paul

Flynn who is founder of Megiddo films Megiddo radio and Megiddo TV and

Paul is calling us live from Ireland and we are delighted to be

discussing a very important topic a topic that is very prevalent amongst

young people and He is going to be basically giving his testimony of salvation

that we have titled From the kingdom of Satan to the kingdom of Christ the

testimony of an idolater of metal music rescued from his religion and we used religion

as a as a noun there as The thing that he was rescued

from for a specific reason that you'll find out in regard to his metal music.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Paul Flynn.

Thank you Chris for having me and.

Before we go into our specific Theme today, which is your testimony of salvation.

Tell us something about Megiddo.

Films radio and TV.

Started back in November 2010 and I

involved in political activism and things like that.

But I found over time that the name didn't really work very well and over time it was changed

to begin content that I was bringing it out and That started November

2010 and I don't know how many films have come out before.

Five films have come out since then just on the internet for free and Megiddo radio

then started in May 28th 2000

really really

simply.

Really at the beginning it really cheap equipment and we get a TV

basically.

It's just the TV version of the radio I remember a couple years ago.

Before I knew it I was buying studio lights and

Started getting a bit too much into it.

So it's kind of growing into its own entity, but I think some people like the TV version of it some people prefer the

so I can for doing the radio part and

I love radio to be honest.

I love listening to radio, but I find that it's a great way to reach people doing the TV version and

YouTube people like it so.

They clips and.

Yeah, well we thank God for you and your ministry and it is definitely a bringing

to the forefront a lot of issues that other ministries and pastors

are afraid to touch or delve into.

Or perhaps it's because they actually disagree with.

The.

Viewpoint that you hold to but The vast majority of time that I've heard you speak

I'm in complete harmony with you and just thank the Lord for you.

And Let me also give our email address right away for those of you listening

who care to Email a question for our guests.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n ze n at

gmail .com and Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you

live outside of the USA and I don't even remember if I introduced you to the Reverend

Buzz Taylor on air yet.

But yes, we met the last time as well.

So it's good to be back again with you great.

Well, God bless the both of you and Let's start out.

Paul.

As far as your testimony is concerned With hearing about the religious atmosphere of your

upbringing there in Ireland and give us the specific Area of Ireland you were born and raised in

and so on.

Sure.

Originally I was born in in Cork City well, that's the hospital I was born in.

I grew up in the country really and I grew up in a Roman Catholic family.

Somewhat religious.

I mean you would have met much more religious families than ours.

But we did go to mass every Sunday.

My mother still to the race to marry every night.

But everybody went to mass everybody

Did the rosary and then it's a strange thing how much Ireland has changed?

It would have been quite normal of 20 or older 21 year old to go to a friend's

house and I would seem quite unusual now in

Ireland, but it when I was growing up.

That was kind of what kind of the norm it was starting to change.

I think a lot of it had to do probably with the sexual scandals in the Roman Catholic Church at the time kind of.

Shook a lot of people's you could say the faith in the institution.

I remember I was

lost every morning and every evening and I go to

Mass every

Sunday that sometime and I would have this kind of know that self -righteous

moment of well, you know what I won't give up on it and I eventually did though.

But 18 years old and I started asking questions people challenged me on what do they believe and to be honest I had no

good foundation to believe what I believed.

I was just like well, I don't know why.

The Catholic priests were never really, you know, not all not all of my suppose.

But most of them weren't really encouraged to think or ask questions.

Christianity at least the Christianity that I thought I knew back then was Devoid of

answers from what 1819 didn't tell my

family and.

But that's that was kind of the atmosphere at the time.

You know, you'd be blaspheming God six days of the week.

Drinking a lot of it as well and then going to mass on a Sunday morning.

You know just utter Hypocrisy that I saw around me and I said if

this is Christianity.

This is the God of Christianity kind of formed what happened to be later on.

Then I wanted nothing to do with it.

So.

You.

Then at some point in your life just as a lot of teenagers do you fell in love?

with rock music and this taste that you had of rock

music developed into darker and darker forms of rock

music.

Basically, there's a lot of things in your own testimony that Parallel mine.

I was raised Roman Catholic also was very involved into

listening to all kinds of rock music including punk and Heavy metal and I

understand that when I speak to young people today, they have different definitions for what those

things might be.

Like I found out that Black Sabbath and An Aerosmith according to some young

person.

They're not heavy metal.

I'm like, oh, well, that's what we called but.

What to tell.

Shake my head as being a former metalhead.

I mean.

If you could tell us about how this the progression of your taste and so on.

Sure, I remember when I was about 12 or 13 and I first started getting to music I was into I.

I think for me that were kind of exciting.

But I was not into metal.

There was nobody in my house really into metal.

I think a

particular Metallica song over and over again.

But it's probably the most melodic song that they've ever released.

So that was nobody really in my family

family that's even into it.

A parent to play.

Test you a bit.

I remember as a 15 year old for example I remember seeing rock magazines on the shelves

up magazine in the world.

But it was back and I remember seeing Marilyn Manson on the cover and it

it scared me as a kid.

I was like weird scares me as a 54 year old man.

And.

Then a year later.

I was hooked on us.

There and there was a catalyst.

When I was 16 years old at a really bad accident I was on a bike

and 16.

That was about 16 years ago now and Long story short.

I went over the handlebars front teeth.

Probably.

Yeah, I was the darkest period of my life up until that point.

I think I was in the hospital.

Let this happen I.

And it started out.

Not started, you know, because formed an iniquity from the

womb.

But it made me hate God even more.

And it's and I think I was bitter and

other ways before then.

Overtly you could say but even more.

So this was a kind of catalyst to make me I Had I remember from that point on I had to

find the most angriest music I could find and the most blasphemous music I could find.

And hardcore metal in

underground stuff in UK that hardly anybody listened to.

I.

Anything it didn't matter how popular was if white people in Norway listened to them and nobody else listened to them I wanted to

hear it.

I.

Mean.

In fact what I was when I was a teenager that was kind of a badge of honor if you found something that your friends Hadn't

heard yet.

But continue.

I'm sorry.

I mean, yeah, it's weird looking back because it really was this urge to

be completely different.

You were just angry with everything.

And then they

were just really really

heavy and they were from I think not even the UK and To be wrong about that, but they're in the UK anyway.

But I remember just listening to that record over and over again.

It was by far the heaviest thing I'd ever listened to.

I got into Florida death metal Norwegian black metal it

and you know, it was just like any other shit I it was just like I wanted more.

I wanted more.

Can talk about it later probably later.

Part of my testimony when I was getting really interested in the philosophy of a lot of what these people are talking about which is Satanism and.

And by the grace of God, I didn't go any further in it when the Lord saved me, but

I remember I Would I was there?

I think it was

a formal.

I think I don't know if we want to call it a formal warfare for me.

I I have this personality.

I'm all or nothing.

Make it even if I tried.

And probably the worst.

Hmm.

Unsleeve very

17 18 years old massively into music massively defining who I was and

Leading on to other problems and.

Just like pornography I have heard Does with those who are addicted to it?

They get bored very quickly of what they're watching and they have to get something more intense something more bizarre

something more unnatural evil overtly evil even to maybe their own taste and

in order to get any kind of enthusiasm with it, and I know that that seems to be what happens to with a

lot of people with music and There is music out there even you know,

it's nothing new but there has been for quite a while music out there that would make

black Sabbath in comparison sound like something suitable for a

Kindergarten TV program, you know a children's program because of the

overtness of satanic Worship involved in it.

For instance, it is interesting to me that Maybe you can respond with

your own theories on this but it's interesting that black Sabbath for interest and for instance

They I used to be very much involved in listening to black Sabbath as a teenager and their

lyrics at least the original lyrics of the old group Were very

ironically pro God and anti Satan.

They were very Frequently about Satan, but if you read the lyrics, they were not

really in favor of Satan or Or Satanism and so on but at the group

though Realized that their occultic image was the most one of the

most attractive things about them so regardless of what lyrics they were singing they took

upon the image of Devil worshippers before lack of a better term I mean if

you remember I know you're younger than me, but do you remember the album Sabbath bloody Sabbath?

Oh, yeah.

What I remember on the front cover there was a picture of what was supposed to be Something resembling hell with a

man Tied to a bed and he's being tortured by demons and then the other side the back of the album cover you

see a very tranquil tranquil and Wonderful scene of a man lying in bed that looks like he's being

served by angels and he's very happy and relaxed so that obviously doesn't give a message that hell

is a superior place to be by any stretch of the imagination, but yet they Mm -hmm.

They seem to thrive on the image of.

Being.

Occultic and I can even remember being a 15 year old kid at

Madison Square Garden watching Black Sabbath perform in concert and there

was a part of the concert where The music got very quiet and a spotlight was shining

on Ozzy Osbourne and he very quietly He said something to the effect

but but a voice came down from heaven and said that heaven is the place that you

need to be and then Ozzy Osbourne stood up and screamed gave the

middle finger to the sky and Said an expletive.

I'm going to hell with all of you and he's pointing to the audience They stand up and

cheer and even as an unregenerate Wicked teenager, I felt very

uncomfortable.

I sat in my seat and I was thinking to myself.

I don't I don't want to go to hell but well having said all that isn't it interesting though that they

they they loved to Identify themselves in this evil way, even though their original lyrics

didn't seem to reflect that persona does do.

Am I making any any sense here?

Yeah, you are Into that.

Within the metal community, but at least where I was in Cork, it was a small close -knit metal

community there was a kind of a You know.

We kind of a lot of people disdain the kind of clichedness of the satanic imagery.

So a lot of people were trying to get away from that and and that I don't think that's anything new.

I think okay, there was been certain movements that have really embraced and fed up

but I think even myself remember the first year I.

Well, I listened to groups like Slayer Deicide were like openly satanic

in their lyrics.

I Looked at it even those kind of lyrics.

Not as a kind of okay.

We're worshiping Satan or anything.

At least I did in the early days.

It was more of an imagery of well, here's a way of dealing with my problems.

Here's my demons that are torturing me.

Just this is this might be the concept behind the Sabbath bloody Sabbath album.

I'm not too sure and then at the end you're you're kind of cleansed.

You've gone through this kind of therapy or something like this.

Just back I think that could be it because I remember when I when I used to write songs.

And I used to always write songs under some kind of influence of it alcohol or something like that I used to see as a kind

of therapy and I felt ultimately Sin is

very deceptive.

It makes you think that you've quote -unquote gotten somebody off your chest.

But you just got yourself in more and more bondage to sin and you just More you're depending

more and more just like the pagans would worship an obelisk or something and and pray to it and feel better.

You know, I was doing some but I think that might be it.

I don't think the vast majority metal community don't think oh, I worship Satan and I get up in the morning, right?

I don't even think Ozzy Osbourne ever identified himself as being somebody who was worshiping Satan.

I.

Think I think at certain points of time I don't know exactly like I remember

the his albums when the last albums I listened to.

And I remember one of the lyrics was I'm not the Antichrist or the Iron Man.

I think in the song he was just kind of talking about how he's misunderstood.

I.

Was never massively into Ozzy.

I was more into Black Sabbath.

I thought Ozzy only put out one or two good records.

But this is one of the last albums he put out and I remember good song back in the day.

I You know like Sin is irrational Sin is not rational.

People think deep down.

Even the weird whacked -out Satanist.

They still think I'm okay.

I'm doing that which is right in my own eyes.

God is the one with the problem and I'm

sorry about that.

I had my head my my microphone on mute by accident there.

So you were touching on it there that there there are and were

groups that make Black Sabbath pale into insignificance

in regard to the intensity of Literal satanic worship

and and a cultic Imagery in the lyrics and so on things

that are intended to be genuine devotion to Satan

or to Satanism.

If you could go on to that realm that is not The

at least to my knowledge.

It's not the the most popular or most heavily listened to kind of music by young

people.

But it's out there and there is a definite following of it.

Oh.

There is yeah, I mean Where I was from in Cork there was a small niche and to be

honest whenever people were They didn't really like to call themselves Satanists.

They prefer the term pagan and

they would have something like that in Cork

wanted to be a bit different so Notice

identified Satanist the Satanism.

However, I did purse at the same

time.

I mean, I remember I was I was getting into Satanism.

I thought that of one to ten as being ten the most religious

Satanist.

Although what could hard to know how you'd even define that?

I was probably like one or two getting interested in listening to more of the lyrics things like that.

Thinking more it was more of a philosophy.

But I remember like at the same time, you know, I even had my own lines that I never went to the cross.

Like for the guys who would have been actually to think about

the top man, but I knew of neo

-nazis.

No, they weren't openly openly neo -nazis.

I think they would have known that they would have gotten shouted down by a lot of people parties where

they've been after a bit.

Of whatever and then it comes out.

I remember one one gig when I was a musician I was about 21 22.

I was so fear on the on the

bill Boy, and I what drove me crazy was the

other band members are like almost like I say nothing.

You know like gonna I can't remember the exact reaction.

It was almost like oh, yeah, you know, but boss, you know.

We're playing a gig.

Yeah, like like even Sid Vicious wore Sometimes they swastika t -shirt and I'm not even sure if he was really

a Nazi, but it was just a shocking image.

Who is that?

Sid vicious from sex pistols.

It's hard to say because I you know, I remember I was I was firmly

against it.

But there was always it was always elements of it and there's been You know

has been in Elements, I suppose you

could say there's elements and a lot of different sectors of lost society.

But particular dark element and there was no real Connection between the two

of them because one of the things the metal community used to pride itself on regardless of where you went.

Was this kind of togetherness again like a religion?

I was talking about.

Oh, yeah, like it didn't matter where you went if you were in a festival in Germany or in Belgium.

You're a metalhead.

You're one of us will yes for you.

There was that.

Oh, yeah.

In fact, it's interesting how I can even vividly remember although I didn't recognize it then I

Could see clearly now how much of a religion music can be because

You those outside of your group and who had who had your shared musical taste

you would look upon like for instance Disco lovers as heretics you wouldn't use the word

but they were like banned from your company.

They were they were people.

I wasn't I wasn't clever enough back then to use the word heretic, but if you know what I mean, even

you know, we would look at people who were into bubblegum rock music as as you know,.

Yeah, just totally.

I don't think square was an outdated term by the time.

I was a teenager.

Maybe it was still alive and well when you were Riding your horse Reverend buzz

but and then maybe back in vogue now, but um.

It was definitely seemed like Sectarianism in a religious sense in the in the music lovers

world.

Yeah, it depended.

It depended where you were.

I knew people who are into every kind of music and didn't care what anybody thought of them, right?

Like they would listen to very pop me kind of my

eyes water back in the day.

So but they were cut but by and large.

That was more corp where I was from because it was a very tight -knit Music community in general because it wasn't really big.

Everybody knew everybody.

I mean one time we were a metal band and we're I was in a metal band.

We supported a hip -hop band, which is all the parts of the world.

That would be kind of really frowned upon but there was a kind of a sense of

I think especially when you're in your 20s I think when when metalers got older 30s and 40s this kind of faded away

a bit, but there was this kind of sense of oh These three things in magazines of private pleasures

of you know.

It was almost like, you know again like the religious thing of the secret sins or something I would listen to

the thick of listening to metal music or something.

It was treated like they say that there was no rules, but there were rules and this is you know.

There was a certain way of dressing.

It had to be.

It was but there's lots of clicks.

There's lots of sub -genres, but generally back in the day.

It had to be different had to be edgy.

It had to be not mainstream or else it kind of sold out.

For example when Metallica got massively big everybody said they sold out.

Like to listen to them anymore.

They weren't cool.

It radically different

radically fighting against the more glam rock of LA and

things like that and again, it's it was an attempt to just be different and

rebellious and the anti -establishment anti -authoritarian

Anti -gods above all else, right?

Yeah.

70s and rock and roll started, you know, the term the devil's music was very prominent and

It was about they got really annoyed when the Christians started taking 70s onward.

We do have some listeners online.

Waiting.

We're not online.

Well, yeah online in the Internet.

Still using my phone language from when we had a call in a program, but I guess online still suits when they're

on the Internet waiting to have their questions asked and answered and We're gonna be going to a break right now.

So if you could be patient, we'll get to you as soon as we can and.

Our email address if you'd like to join them with questions of your own on the air is Chris

Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please leave or please give us your first name.

Your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and if you need to remain

Anonymous for some reason perhaps you're talking about a family member or something like that.

You may feel free to remain anonymous if it makes you feel more comfortable.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Paul Flynn and his testimony.

Of being rescued from the false religion of heavy metal idolatry.

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Welcome back if you just tuned us in our guest today is Paul Flynn calling us live from

Ireland and He is the founder of Megiddo films Megiddo radio and

Megiddo TV.

We are discussing his testimony of being rescued by our sovereign Lord and

Savior Jesus Christ out from the idolatry of metal music.

Not to mention false religion that he was involved in in other areas of his life.

Which we will get into if you'd like to join us on the air.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com before we go to some of our Listener questions.

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the best in Christian books for 2016 but we do have a

couple of Listeners who have contacted us.

First of all, I want to give a shout -out to Linda in British Columbia.

Linda sent us a very nice note that she is listening

To iron sharpens iron along with her fellow vineyard workers.

And I'm not sure if she was using that as an analogy of of Christian evangelism.

Or if she is literally working in a vineyard picking grapes or something but she and her her fellow

workers in British Columbia, Canada are listening to iron sharpens iron and We help break up the

monotony of their work there.

So we thank Linda and she actually was Looking for the mp3

of our last interview with Paul Flynn on the shack we did an expose

on the shack and My new webmaster unfortunately has not yet gotten that posted.

He's still getting up to date, but Paul does have that as a YouTube

available already posted on the internet that you can view and listen to and

You will be spared of looking at my ugly face because you'll only be seeing Paul and

But what give us that the specific website Paul where people can look up things like that.

YouTube is a youtube .com 4 -meg it old films.

I think that's the one if you type in Paul Slane into YouTube.

I Am the guy who is not the hurler?

Okay, and So thank you again to everybody in British Columbia who are listening and we also

have Tyler and mastic Beach Long Island.

Who asked what do you think of churches like?

New spring church.

I'm not familiar with them with a popular leader like Perry

Riddle.

Having a difficult time reading this playing AC DC's highway to

hell to reach unbeliever unbelievers.

How do you?

Respond to something like that Paul.

That does seem a bit bizarre.

I don't know how they're.

Because the AC DC group seems to be very delighted that they're on a highway to hell when they're singing this song.

I'm sorry, I mispronounced the name.

I enlarged I Enlarged.

Tyler's email.

It's Perry noble.

He plays AC DC's highway to hell to reach unbelievers, what is your response to that?

Well, it's gonna reach unbelievers but with what.

The question is whether to reach out to believers or to reach believers.

I mean, it's like how to make friends and influence people.

But are you trying to reach them for the gospel?

I mean the this whole thing.

And I was talking to you last show and it's sad in the modern church.

We don't identify this the problem.

It doesn't start off with.

There's all this external stuff that happens.

Perry noble I remember seeing this before but their symptoms of a grave

neglected the issues of Reformation.

They would talk for hours and hours and they would write books and books and books over what?

Free will and the idol of free will now we just treat it like philosophy like it doesn't matter anymore and

and and Eventually see the thing is if you see man's will as in some way free

or if you go all the way over to the Pelagians You're going to say well we in order to get them into the church.

We've got to You know to to reach him.

What did it like the loss of the flesh the loss of the eyes and the pride of life?

And if they can just make the right decision Mm -hmm based on who we're gonna tickle

and that's that's the that's the point I mean, I think we've either got I don't care

about Calvinism or Minnesam all that or there's the other side.

Which is I think okay.

There's some very Theologically robust arguments for Calvinism, but I think what we fail to do is

take that and Practically apply it everywhere of life the Puritans didn't just keep it as the five

points.

They said how will this play out in my family's life?

How will this play out in how we preach how you know everything the sovereignty of God?

And it wasn't just the kind of a theoretical head knowledge thing as it seems to become in a lot of

places.

We almost like lecture through it onion preach to the heart that kind of

thing ones and you realize How much you're.

I mean you can have all that you can take all that the boxes so to speak.

But if we're not humble, we're never going to completely get it.

That's the best way to put it.

Mm -hmm.

We do have.

Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Who wants to know.

In the.

1980s and 90s it was very popular for some Christian ministries

to expose back masking on Heavy metal records and other

kinds of rock music records Where by when they were reversed it

was alleged that secret satanic messages were being recorded

backwards In a stealth manner so that the typical person Who was

not in the know would be totally unaware of this practice.

What do you make of this?

Is it real?

It might be but I don't think you need to go there.

I know you don't even need to go backwards do you.

Backwards.

It just shows their creativity, that's all.

There's a lot of theories on the internet and it's like we're like the Greeks of the first century.

We want to hear something new but yeah what you're finding couldn't be true.

But is it going to benefit you or anybody else?

We have to kind of go is this gonna be of benefit to the body of Christ or are we going to be?

Obsessing or satanic lyrics.

Satanic band.

And Things we just you know, what are we supposed to meditate upon?

What everything's lovely whatsoever things are true and I know when when I was first saved I I

still listen to metal for you know I took out some of the really over to

size the downsize this time went on.

But you just wanted to get people down to what's important that they have this love for Christ

that That this stuff fades.

Mm -hmm.

I'm not saying it's going to completely go away.

I'll sometimes go to a music shop and I'll hear a song from 10 years ago and my flesh still

kind of in some way.

Can it be yours towards it?

But there's no joy there.

So, I mean, of course this stuff can be true and lots of stuff.

That people can get the popular stuff.

It isn't a funny how this is hugely popular.

But you can ever pack out something about the tone of regeneration or things like that.

No, it's not amazing way.

That is.

But you have to be kind of like, okay, this could be true, but how will it benefit

you?

How will it benefit your brother in Christ or will it just be a stumbling block?

You mean how will knowing about it benefiting you benefit you.

Is that what you mean?

I don't see it benefiting anybody even if it is true.

I just you know, you know, I mean I Feel for people.

I understand why people get.

I don't have you little people.

I want to be careful I don't little people were involved in this.

I Understand and I understand probably better than most people do because a

lot of people are still how I would have lot watched a lot Of things, you

know history rock and roll and all this kind of thing, but you don't need to was an old cliche.

You don't have to study every single counterfeit bill.

You know bill in America in Ireland don't have to

study all that in order to know a counterfeit and what's the struck and of course?

It would be more of an important issue If there were

Allegedly Christian recording groups having satanic messages when you.

And that they were purposely recording so that when they were reversed you would hear them.

That would be something more More important to know about because the

the heavy metal groups and other groups that are have evil lyrics going forward

listening to them in a normal fashion.

It's no big shock if they're saying something evil in the reverse but if somebody had some secretive reason for doing it

that was presenting them they were presenting themselves in a in In the light of being Christian or something

like that.

That would be a different matter.

Oh, yeah.

It seems we we left Paul in his testimony.

Getting to the point of hating God and we never resolved that.

Yes, and we were also.

I also wanted to just at least Touch a bit more on What's

perhaps you should alarm? parents about in regard to those

Forms of music that are literally the most evil that are actually involved in

authentic satanic Worship and that kind of a thing.

That's the the most dangerous of this type of stuff.

Perhaps you don't even think you should mention them at all so that others don't get drawn into it.

But that I'll leave that up to your discernment.

Whether you think that you should be Alerting specifically parents about them by name or if you'd rather not

that's up to you.

Yeah, yeah, probably because I'm just thinking I could name a bunch of bands that I listen to I loved but it never

starts off There it never starts off with.

One of my favorite bands from the UK and they would their neck and I love that near the end and they

were one of My favorite bands.

I think we've kind of I don't know if everybody does this but a lot of people when they think of Satanism.

They think it's you know, bowing down before an image of Satan or something.

I usually it's not right majority of the time.

It's you know, Marla Manson one said that it was worship of self.

Yes, and That's and I remember going.

Oh, that's me.

I worship myself.

Well, am I gonna worship?

So and I remember I love the writings of Nietzsche.

I just kind of It was just me.

I you know, it wasn't I Don't know how would you put it?

It's just like it doesn't start off there.

I mean you might say well, there's I you know, there's a danger to with

here's a hundred things to keep out of your house.

Yes, you shouldn't have things.

They're destructive.

I think it's we're getting at the wrong way around you can I mean, we'd love in our religious.

You know, we can be all Pharisees in our own way at times.

We'd love a list of a thousand things to stay away from so we look at that list and go.

Hey, look at all the things I didn't do today, but I think we really have

to we really have to think of Positively what to fill our houses with the Word of

God.

Ship in the morning worship in the evening and we're gonna be so busy serving the Lord that the junk

just won't get in there.

I think sometimes we can be so the enemy sometimes.

I remember books years ago.

I don't think I have any major problem with them, but it's just like they would be against them.

Oh, you know don't ever read Plato when all of the the reformers that all read Plato not to agree with them.

It's right quote him.

They study the classics.

They studied all these things.

No, I do think there's certain things you should never read, you know, and you know anything pornographic or anything like that

but if you're reading the thoughts of motor and brains with the with the view to Enhance your education

and things like that, right and Help maybe maybe your your son or daughters

15 years old and they're gonna encounter these thoughts in the world.

So, okay.

Educate them a lot of society has been formed by Plato and all this and you know Socrates

and whatever.

There's a purpose to that.

Yes.

When you get into the Led Zeppelin and all this you really have to go through all the sordid.

Stuff that has been influenced by that.

So there's discernment there.

There isn't a list of a thousand things.

We should the Puritans talked about the regular the principle of worship.

But we should never have a kind of a regular the principle of life.

We get into a dangerous Legalistic

Bible doesn't place upon it.

It gives us enough principles to make discernment that it's quite clear

make sense.

Oh, yeah, sure the Puritans thought about the regular the principle.

I see the sad thing is like I think we always get excited about more about can you give us a regular the principle of? life.

They're not as interested in the worship part.

So there's general principles in life, you know, what job we should pick.

It doesn't tell us which one we should pick but it gives us if something's wrong about one thing and

Kingdom of God and another we should go towards that.

So yeah, I'm after forgetting the original question.

Yes.

Yeah, basically buzz was referring to the point that you reached where you hated.

God, yeah, and I think you know, like I think it's important to point

out when I first came to it the first church I was in and If

any of them are listening, I'm not trying to speak down to you or anything.

But I remember I would tell people I hated God and they would say to me no.

No, no, you know.

They were trying to water it down a little bit and I think I know what they were saying.

They were trying to not make me depressed or something like that.

But you know sometimes Low self -loathing is a good thing if it's in the right way now,

you know, if it's hating of your sin.

At 16, I kind of I think I knew more overtly.

I was angry with God.

It grew past that point.

I think it's important to point out if we're not in Christ If we don't receive if we don't come to Christ

to repentance of faith.

We we see a problem with him and we do hate him regardless of whether we're Satanist the Roman Catholic or anything else.

But when I was 16 17 that animosity grew

had.

You know, I think you know the things that we misunderstood the modern world of things like depression.

We think oh, he's got such a low self -esteem of himself.

Problem with me is I thought too much of myself I wanted to be I Don't know a top psychologist

and then when they didn't get that course I was depressed and I wanted to get into become a doctor just missed out in it.

You know, I noticed a lot of people that the suffer from depression.

And when they don't reach that very high standard, it's

their life is over.

So they could be and if they don't reach it everything

you could say various disappointments that came along the road.

I Went back and forth my studies.

Sometimes they did great and the next year I completely flopped and They got heavy drinking.

About the age of 18 nothing unusual over an Irish person sadly.

But we can talk about that more later later.

It's it's a massive problem in Ireland sadly, we joke about it, but

It's sadly a lot of it's true.

18 19 20 I was Just I think just I just

Know grew and grew the heart of my heart grew and grew even more and I was

2021 I Got the psychology course.

I wanted it was second choice after medicine, but I remember I got into it.

First month or two it did okay, and it just was a big letdown and I remember

that one classmates.

Because I thought they were pretentious at the time.

You know, I abandoned years

and I then I joined a series of bands over the next couple years.

21 years old prior to my conversion I was in four different metal bands and

became Really ambitious.

Again, I was I've always been for my toes.

We all are in some way but I

Wanted to I didn't want to when I died Being a

nobody if that made sense.

And I thought that was arrogance of my definitely was there's no doubt about it.

So, you know, I wanted to take my animosity on God out in the world.

I didn't look at that at that at the time.

But remembering my lyrics oracle, but I you know looking back and

even the little bits that I remember.

You know, it was primarily, you know, it was.

You know, I was like, I was a professional victim.

I was a bit like a social justice warrior nowadays.

But you kind of the world always you something I

kind of sometimes when I talk to people and say, oh, I don't have a high self -esteem.

You know like I said, no you do you think too much yourself if you don't expect that much.

You know if somebody doesn't expect food as a very low standard and they find a loaf of bread.

They're pretty happy.

You know, I mean, I mean, I suppose a lot of it was self -pity.

And that's what helps me sometimes when I'm like if I go to ever and

it's normal.

And but then I just remind myself all you're just thinking too much about yourself.

Yes, and I remember.

Having been a person myself was rescued from very serious.

Alcoholism or drunkenness perhaps is a better phrase because I tend to dislike

tech clinical terms for sin, but Very dangerous

levels of drunkenness habitual drunkenness.

I was rescued out of that and I know that.

That self -pity can be one of the most dangerous states of mind to have because you think that you

deserve.

To.

Obliterate your brain cells with alcohol and drugs, you know, you deserve this because

life has Treated you so harshly.

So therefore There's nothing wrong with cheering yourself up.

Even if it means Drinking to excess or getting high or what have you and I know that that

could be a really dangerous road personally.

It started off with.

Again, you bring up various things, but it was a series of disappointments.

I mean I.

I.

Guess it was.

Sadly today, you know, I would have been a bit Compared to today and maybe a bit unusual, but

nowadays it's kind of like everything's a it's

like the world.

Oh is you something whereas?

I'm not saying that this is the proper way to deal with something.

If you've got a teenager is going through hard trials.

You know, you don't want to just hit him on the arm and say get over it but I mean, you know, that's probably just gonna make him

worse and You know, sometimes people just need somebody to listen to them and that helps but

we're treating everybody.

We're training everybody to be a victim.

I suppose you get into you know, what's happening with.

You know feminism and all these isms at the moment and everybody's a victim.

It was sin.

And again, like it's like

you think you highly of yourself and If that you know, I go through periods of

time like we all do.

You know, you just annoyed with things and you just have to kind of

remind yourself of this is sinful.

I should be like how it all my blessings all the things that God has given me where I should be if God gave me.

Where I could would be if God gave me justice.

You know, we have so many.

Yeah.

We're gonna be going to another break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, please Feel free to email us at Chris Arnzen

at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back with Paul Flynn of Megiddo films radio and TV

with his personal testimony of being rescued out of the idolatry of The heavy

metal religion, so don't go away.

We're gonna be right back.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson.

If you just tuned us in our guest today is Paul Flynn we are hearing his personal testimony of being

rescued out of the religion of metal music idolatry and that in

some people's mind might to sound like an extreme phrase to use religion of metal music but

anything That has become an idol in your life that has eclipsed God in

your mind and in your heart and in your way of life that has become your idol and therefore it

has become false religion and.

So therefore, I think it's very suitable that we describe Paul's

testimony as being About one who has been rescued from the religion of

heavy metal Idolatry and There are planes soaring outside and I'm

wondering if the microphones picking up.

I don't know if we're under attack right now, but.

But.

Anyway, if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Before we go back into the main topic at hand.

We do have a listener in Newville, Pennsylvania, we have Susan who asks.

I'm familiar with.

Some kind of debates that you have done on the radio.

Would you ever be willing to participate in a live?

Moderated debate in public on any issue of your choosing.

That's for you Paul for me.

Yes.

Yes.

I haven't done any debates, but I mean if the right one came up sure.

Okay, and Well, obviously the the listener

has my Enthusiasm over debates.

I I personally have arranged many public moderated debates

probably close to 30 or 40 over the course of about 25 years

and Typically with my friend dr. James are white of Alpha and Omega ministries,

but they have involved others as well and they Have been involving

opponents such as Roman Catholics and liberal Protestants and even Muslims and People who are in

cults.

So I do love debates myself.

I think they're very valuable.

I know that we do have Christian brethren who? do not believe in conducting them because a

the enemy is given a platform from which to Give their

ideology, but my opinion is that the enemy is already Giving his opinion

in many Forms of media and to have somebody immediately correct them and refute them is I think very

valuable.

I think I think there's some debates that I'd be willing to do maybe not everything but within the visible church.

Especially things can be really really or you know against liberals to explore

expose that what they believe is not Christian or Orthodox or anything like that?

Yeah, I mean people have different views and as I think some debates are excellent and some

and we do have.

Christian in Suffolk County, New York who wants to know.

Do you think that there are specific?

Melodies and rhythms that are innately evil without any lyrical context.

I think it's anything just driven if it's driven by the melody it tends not to.

And this is more of a general principle driven by the melody.

It doesn't mean necessarily that that means it's okay or anything.

But if it's driven by the melody it it tends to be a lot better.

Then if it's you know if it's driven by the rhythm.

You know it's something that appeals to our flesh, and that would be the kind of general principle.

I would go by.

When we're talking about music evil not evil and all that usually comes back to worship, and I just

kind of say What does the Word of God?

Sanction you know you

know what the study what the Puritan said about the regular the principle

once we can get to that point.

Yeah, I mean we're talking about secular music now stuff that wouldn't necessarily be worship

I suppose back beats and stuff that I can lead, but.

Yeah, I think we got to be careful being overly rigid about it if that makes sense right.

I mean I I have to confess that I do.

Enjoy a talented electric guitar player who is just playing his guitar in a in a way that

demonstrates a lot of talent.

And I'm not saying that I would want that happening in a worship service.

I'm just talking about sitting listening to a CD or something.

Well.

You have to recognize that the seal of God's image is even on the pagans and he

has allowed them to display great talent.

And We can certainly benefit from listening to that, but you know in any style of music.

And I'm not going to say you know I mean there's some that I just simply don't like so for me to say

It's ungodly would be more biased.

I'm afraid but but even in the kinds of music that that I like you

have Those that you can tell they just made it in the corner of their basement.

And it's not very good, and then you have others that are very polished.

You have good musicians.

And you have the junk and you're gonna have that in any genre by the way a buzz for the case

Paul doesn't know and perhaps some of our listeners.

Don't Reverend buzz.

Taylor is a professional trumpet player and is most Lee

involved in like big band type of music.

I love it.

Yeah, right right jazz and big band.

But you know really though.

And Christian music.

Oh definitely.

Most of my concerts are in churches, right?

And but there again, there's a lot of songs like secular songs where I would say well It needs a trumpet simply because then you

can't hear the lyrics.

Well going back to the regulative principle.

The.

Paul the there are many in the who embrace the regulative principle who don't believe in musical instruments at all in the

worship service.

Because they believe in strictly acapella singing and I actually love acapella myself,

but.

The.

I.

Agree that that melody and Rhythm are important issues

when it comes to worship music because no matter what anyone says I don't think that those

things are neutral in regard to the moods that they create and.

Like for instance there there are There are groups identifying themselves as Christian

who are involved in the form of music that and perhaps you can enlighten me on what it's called

because I can't remember but you know the type of music where the.

The people have this very guttural scream that they sing the lyrics with and I use sing

Loosely the term.

I'm sorry.

Perhaps you know words like those are you know, it's like you can't even really understand what the person's saying.

Like there was some group that were the all the group the members of the group were wearing masks and they had like dreadlocks.

I can't even.

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

What would you call that?

What kind of music is when they came out?

They were called new metal and you dash metal, but As time's gone on

people just referred to as a metal band because they've taken a lot they're kind of unique because they've

taken a lot of different styles and Blend them together, you know that they've even got a DJ on the stage.

So it's kind of a lot of the stuff that came out of the last 10 20 years.

People want to categorize it, but it's almost impossible to do it like there's so many sub genres now.

You know in the 70s.

It was just heavy metal.

I was it, you know.

There was just a couple of other groups and there was not much to it.

But then the 80s onwards there was you know, people took what Sabbath did sped it up slowed it

down.

Right.

Copy Sabbath, I mean most people have just said that you know.

Like basically everything from that point on has been it's everything copying Sabbath.

It's just the speed is faster or.

The you know, they've dropped their don't be or see or whatever they do

makes it a lot deeper.

So it's just kind of like I mean, you notice with all of this stuff, right?

It's always there's an influence.

There's a there's a spirit behind it.

You know like the Beatles were big influence on Black Sabbath and what influenced the Beatles was a

lot of the New Age movement and.

I didn't even know that the Beatles were a big influence on Black Sabbath.

Oh.

Yeah, but I think there were big big influence on everybody.

I think okay.

Yeah, I think anybody was but but yeah I think Ozzy Osbourne and any of you talked about him being one of the influences

but.

I.

Can see helter -skelter.

Fitting into that and their hair used to be longer than everybody else's to.

Even though even though it was short compared to I mean there are fundamentalist Baptist King James only pastors wearing haircuts

like that but the I going back to what I'm what I

meant by the The metal screamers is there are Christian groups or if those

identifying themselves as Christian who are who are? peddling music like that as Being

Christian and I think that that's virtually impossible to combine the two.

But first of all because you could typically not even understand what these people are saying.

They could be praising Satan or Jesus in their their lyrics and the mood that is creating is

Certainly not one of worship.

It's chaos.

It's fear.

It's tension.

It's whatever you want to call it.

There are there are certain lyrics that are overtly sensual and even Everybody in the rock and roll

industry knows that and that's that's the way that they would even define their own music as

Creating the mood for sexual activity.

And do you agree with where I'm coming from Paul?

From what I know as well, even though even the term rock and roll right from the very act itself, you know I mean,

I don't know.

Back in the 60s a lot of rock musicians were fairly well -read things

like that.

They were well into the occult.

They knew what they were doing in the 70s 80s onwards everybody Zeppelin's and all these kind of

people.

But you find that they knew what it came from.

They said, you know rock music was the devil's music.

That this is our music where it's um, it comes from, you know, Jimi Hendrix.

Hi, Isaac.

I don't cocaine and talking to spirits and things like that.

It's just a you know, if you look at the spirit it kind of comes from it doesn't

inspire.

It's the same thing with you know, like hip -hop it just it doesn't kind of inspire.

Even even if I'm not talking about even worship here, it doesn't.

Create a give it good influence.

I mean, I don't want to be creating a list of things.

We shouldn't shouldn't do it, right?

Um, I mean at the same time, I think we're getting so distracted about can I do this?

Well, if you have to acquire the taste, it's probably.

I'm sorry Paul.

Can you finish what you were saying?

Buzz was kind of interrupting.

You know, just you know so much stuff like we have so little time in this earth.

There's this you know, we're this life is but a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.

So I would encourage people not to be trying to think of a list of things that they can do in the Christian Liberty.

Fill our time with prayer and Bible worship and everything else and I can guarantee you Most of

these issues go away because you just simply don't have time for them.

And I'm sorry buzz you were saying yeah, I was thinking.

If you if you have to acquire the taste it's probably distasteful.

Well one thing that I brought this up before whenever the subject of music comes up on my show

T David Gordon wrote an excellent book called why Johnny can't sing hymns.

It was a sequel to his book why Johnny can't preach and he was

Refuting the notion that melodies are neutral when it comes to worship.

And.

Even instruments even musical instruments.

And he was he said if you really want to put that to the test Think of how you would feel if you were

at the funeral of a precious loved one of yours who passed away.

And a group came in and started to play music on kazoos.

There you would probably be immediately jolted and angry because they would be a mockery of the

solemn Memorial that was taking place.

And so therefore he was making the point that that to say anything goes in Christian worship

is just not true.

But but the chaos and confusion and if you look at like David and Saul David playing before Saul.

You know, there's no, you know, there's no kind of encouragement that the

that the Bible is at any way neutral on the instruments and if anything it was very very

strict and who was allowed to play the instruments even back in the Old Testament and.

Even restricted to the temple, etc.

But um, don't get too sidetracked either.

All right.

Well, let's get to the point now.

Where you are Discovering the gospel of Jesus Christ having been raised

Roman Catholic.

You weren't Taught that although there is a minimum

of truth in the Catholic Church, for instance when I was raised Roman Catholic and

The Lord's led me to salvation through his sovereignty and mercy in a Baptist Church

But I did know that there was a Jesus and I didn't know he was God I didn't know that there was a Trinity

and things like that in the Catholic Church that were taught in the Catholic Church Although obviously

distorted especially in regard to the gospel in regard to the depravity of

man and Their their false gospel of adding works

and the merits of not only human beings Desiring to be saved but those of the Saints

and Mary and so on that that need to be added to the merits of Christ's sacrifice that kind of thing

but There is some element of truth in the Catholic Church

When you came to discover the the Christ of the scriptures and the gospel

How did this come about initially?

Like sometimes people might you know, get attracted and read it and go home and maybe see that they're sinners.

With me.

It was like over a long period of time.

I was Reading.

I was studying for from about 2008 to 2009.

I was reading a lot of.

How would you put it kind of like political activism?

Especially a lot of articles online and every now and again, I would come across the Bible verse.

Especially Matthew 11 28 come unto me all ye that have ye laden and I will give you rest.

And I remember when I read that and read all the verses like that.

I thought that's nice.

But that's for the you know, and I kind of you know at the time I was still a bit into Satanism and I put

a kind of Christianity.

I remember it was early 2009 December January

around that time when they basically renounced Satanism.

I was just kind of like It was I was doing a lot of research on I suppose

you could say conspiracy theory research and things like that and I came across.

Like, you know satanic anything to do with that.

I'm done.

This is me done looking into this and being enamored with this.

It still wasn't a Christian but it kind of started maybe Christianity is not the

enemy anymore and I remember just starting to read articles and things for the

Pope said and things like that for a couple of months.

Long story short, I guess having.

But I suppose, you know, we can never know how much knowledge we need to know.

I think we need to know we're sinners.

We need to know that Jesus Christ is the only way we need to know he's God.

You know things like that.

We need to know we need to forsake our old way.

I remember it was in the middle of March 2009.

I like a number of people who are doing the same research as me

one person when the video is set if you're an atheist.

You have fallen for the you know Great deception.

I can't remember the exact words or the the New World Order lies be really big into conspiracy theories years ago.

But not that not much anymore.

But um, but I remember him saying that to me and I knew what he was saying was true that.

That atheism was a lie, and I knew God was real.

I remember just hit me like a ton of bricks 4 a .m. In the morning walking upstairs and I remember just

tears just falling down my face and it's a strange night because I remember just

at the end of my bed all I could come out of my mouth was I'm so sorry and

I remember just feeling for the first time in my life horrible for everything I'd ever done

everything I'd ever said against God just flashed through my head and I remember just saying want

to follow you Jesus.

I remember just it's a very simple prayer but I remember I just stopped my eyes over like half an hour and

The knowledge I had I

Didn't know any Christians at the time and within a day or two. I was on I felt really really convicted

to get a Bible.

I Went to.

I got my Bible from a Roman Catholic shop of all places and

Kind of a funny story how I got the Bible.

I remember the only version I knew about was the King James hadn't a clue about any of the others and I

remember saying to the guy behind the counter This is in the Catholic bookshop and I remember saying to him do you know anything about the

the King James Bible and I said a kind of sheepishly and.

And not really I still to be honest.

I didn't understand a lot.

I kind of just knew that I Changed.

I kind of knew I kind of had new desires new affections.

I wanted to do different things, but I remember just talking to many remember he leant forward and he said That'd be the Protestant

Bible now.

And it was like right, so I'll get the other one will I okay, right.

Today the first Bible I ever bought was a dear Eames Jesuit Bible too expensive to mention.

But I read that Bible at home and I remember a few days later.

I met up with my friends I think was like the next day the day after and I was drinking like I normally would but I

hated it.

I Absolutely hated it.

I was just like I was drinking pints.

I probably had what six is not nothing big deal.

Not drunk or anything and Just remember just kind of going to myself.

I'm not enjoying this for a few days.

I thought oh, I'm back.

There was nobody kind of to explain a lot to me.

It was a kind of strange month where I was kind of looking around the dark you could say.

But I remember just I remember wake you wake up the next morning said I don't want to do this anymore.

I'm kind of done with this I'm done with drinking too much and then I remember when the first passages I opened

up in Ephesians was do not fill up a wine but fill up in the Holy Spirit and I was like, oh That

makes sense.

I'm not and it little by little I mean to be honest I was I had so much

baggage even when I went to I went to my first church like a month later and the woman at The church said to me,

it's great to know now.

She probably should have said at the time.

But it's great to know you're definitely going to heaven and I went.

And you really know that and I went home and I just felt this over I spent like I was looking at every YouTube

I sure like that they mentioned and I remember when it just dawned on me.

But nothing could take me out of the hands of the Savior and I was another night where I just bawled my eyes out.

It was it just it was a strange surreal thing.

But it was just like I knew from that day I started being I started hating cursing God's

name I I didn't enjoy the drink and it went for me very very quickly.

And I struggled with other things not everything went for me.

I had a really bad problem with pornography that that took a while a backslid a few times the first few months I

was saved and realizing was trusting too much of myself, but wasn't spending enough time in the Word and in prayer and

I just went from realizing I hated God and I felt I remember that

night.

I just felt horrible.

I just I All that could come out from my mouth for half an hour my parents house

Stranded because I lost my car because such such a drunken idiot.

Were you the star of dude, where's my car?

You know, seriously it was I was that guy and you know.

There was a kind of a tragic face to it because I was falling apart, but I was the party animal.

I was the guy everybody not the only guy but one of the guys everybody wanted to get out and everybody was

texting for a year afterwards and I didn't want to be too much of a quote -unquote religious fanatic at the

time.

I was media put friends for a beer here and there and I do believe you know, the Bible's

okay with no drinks.

Moderation.

That took me a few years to realize.

But anyway.

So guilty and I left it out but I said, you know, I you know, I don't.

I don't get an argument over with people over.

But well, I was gonna say like I mean it was just it was just a surreal Moment in my

life where one thing I know like, you know, I didn't know a lot, but he

knew I was wretched.

I knew I was just I.

First month.

I just felt so happy.

It was just it was just you know, and I I met you know.

Like looking back it was easy.

And it was probably months later when I grew an assurance.

But I thank God for the way it happened that I didn't go to some revivalist meeting and I prayed a prayer and had frustration

and all this.

Because I was in just desperation.

I reached the end of myself.

The information of what was going on the world globalism, whatever you want

to call it is to be asked.

I was helpless.

I felt hopeless.

But I saw hope in Jesus Christ.

Now.

The situation with your Habitual drunkenness you said that the Lord removed that from you like

immediately it was something that Was no longer a part of your life because that's a obvious

Obviously an important issue with me.

Also. I was a drunkard the Lord Saved me out of it twice because I

Fell back tragically into alcohol abuse even after being a Christian for 18

years.

But then was delivered from it again.

I am a person who although I believe In the Christian Liberty to moderately

consume alcohol because you can't find a strict prohibition of it anywhere in the Bible I

personally cannot even dabble in it moderately.

I know that I can't.

I don't.

You may have a different circumstance.

But for those of our listeners Who have been involved in drug and alcohol addiction?

Just be a little bit more detailed on that end of it.

If you could not the same for everybody the certain things that the

Lord might take from you straight away I mean and he does it for different reasons and there's a reason I think I can't remember the

book.

It's things called heaven and earth.

I mean, I think was Thomas Boston maybe but he I remember reading part of that and.

That the Lord takes things from you at the beginning, you know I suppose you could say encourage you things like that.

But he doesn't take away everything and there's a reason that we never get too confident in ourselves.

It's always to drive us to to Christ we have struggled but

that I'm going to trust the Lord with all

my heart and Lean not in thine own understanding as it says in Proverbs chapter 3.

That we are brought to the end of ourselves more and more as we grow in sanctification.

That we are not saying.

Oh, look at what I achieved.

I stayed so many days away from I can

a Christian can fall into the worst sins.

Imaginable and still be a Christian.

But a true Christian will not stay habitually in that lifestyle.

He will hate us he will of course a Christian can backslide and and and.

Often, you know and do we should never have too much confidence in ourselves and it and the

experience is different for everybody.

Those things that cause you to sin whatever they may be.

Avoid them, you know, whatever

the weaknesses and strength of other brethren.

I know people who are very I.

I stayed away from alcohol for a couple years after I was saved and I felt kind of a bit.

You know not great about it.

And I remember, you know sticking to my face almost like, you know, why don't you

want us?

We almost can't not kind of odd about us.

We should be very careful.

We will meet people where they're at you know is that people have different strengths and weaknesses and we should never take Christian liberty as

something to go and.

Sometimes this happens way too much in her reform circles, especially.

What I can do.

In fact, we do have a listener that It sent us an email on this very issue from

Clinton Township, Michigan.

That I'd like to address his question even though you've already dealt with.

What he is asking to some degree, but I'll address it after we come back from the break.

And this is our final half hour.

So if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail

.com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back with Paul Flynn and the remainder have his testimony of being rescued from the religion of

heavy metal.

I wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Who am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

Than how men view these things?

That's not the best recipe for popularity.

But since that wasn't the Apostles priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy.

To a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past

sermons Worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace.

You can find us at Providence Baptist Church Ma .org that's Providence Baptist Church ma .org

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arns in revealing that I don't mind electric guitar behind some of my advertisements.

But we are have been for 90 minutes discussing Paul Flynn's

testimony of being delivered from The religion of heavy metal idolatry and

We believe that anything that has become an idol in your life is a

false religion or as a part of a false religion an idol of a false religion or in a false religion and

Therefore we think that this is an appropriate way to describe a Paul's

testimony, in fact, he religiously was involved in

Music in the sense that it became something that he did habitually with great devotion and great

enthusiasm That eclipsed everything else in his life especially God

and This is our final 25 minutes or so.

So if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com Chris Arnson at

gmail .com and but prior to the break we were talking about Christian Liberty and

The abuse of it and Jeff from Clinton Township, Michigan who is listening

He says Related to the issue of worldly music.

I've met men recently who are playing with cigars pipes and alcohol.

I'm sad to see the elements of the world that I was fleeing after my salvation.

Appearing among the younger folks in our church today is all of this related to the hyper

grace movement.

Aren't we supposed to pursue personal holiness and godly behavior?

Am I being unreasonable in my opinions?

Well, that's a very good question.

And as we were saying before the break we on this program here at least right now

Seem to be in harmony that Those things that were mentioned by Jeff may be a part of a

Christian's liberty to participate in in moderation.

But there is also a danger of flaunting liberty selfishly and making a brother stumble am I correct

on that Paul?

Would that be your view?

Yeah, I kind of years after I saved and

you know, but but the grace of God I was led through, you know, the doctrines of grace after a couple years and

I think the key we got to be consistent in whatever position we take we can't.

We got to be careful not to create a thousand different things to avoid.

However, anything that's an idol.

I remember talking to a friend of mine who struggled giving up cigarettes, for example.

I don't think personally that cigarettes and this might get me in trouble in and of themselves are evil

however.

Not the smartest thing to do so, but like and if it might be damaged to your health, which might be you know.

Well, it is a violation of With a camera man, but I'm ahead, you know, that's not murder

to preserve your own life.

You know you but you could also bang coca -cola because there's junk and coca -cola as well.

So I just think that you've got to be consistent about it is is as it got control over your life I don't

care what it is.

If it's cigarettes out if alcohols got control of your life.

That's an idol if I don't know you could think of anything.

It's you know sports.

Massive cheese whiz.

You know a huge idol.

Nobody wants to talk about a sport.

Yes, you're right.

Mm -hmm and I'll be honest.

It's something I struggle with.

I spend probably too much time looking at, you know, football news.

I'm a bit of a liberal cool fan, but you know, I probably spend too much it but you see the

thing is.

You know.

Whatever it is, right?

I'm not saying okay go go smoke cigarettes and do all that kind of thing.

It's not good for your health.

It's not smart, you know, you know.

But can I say this, you know because they they create all these temperance movements in the 19th century.

Out of the revivalist movements.

And they were like, oh, we're gonna ban coffee we're gonna ban tea and and.

Seriously, it became just a list society.

I just would encourage people to avoid that but try and go from the positive angle of that if that makes sense.

I'm not saying we don't deal with it.

He's addicted smoking quick, you know the story what I you know for the person

I I've read and I believe some of these people exist.

I'm not sure but if if it's possible to enjoy a pipe and.

You're not getting whatever on it depends on what you're putting it in.

I guess.

The flavor of it.

I don't think that there's anything that's wrong.

If as long as it's not really affecting your health and all that again, right?

You want to be consistent with a banned coca -cola because the junk in there.

I you know, I mean, right, right.

You know, and of course the The appearance of evil.

I mean, we don't want to make people stumble.

We don't want people to unnecessarily question our Christianity.

For instance my pastor at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle has told

me that he would never drink even a glass of wine in public not that he Has a belief

in a strict prohibition of against alcohol, but he doesn't want to unnecessarily Give people who

don't have a deep enough understanding of that issue to immediately question Whether or not he's a

Christian and I know that that is A very real thing and that could

go with smoking cigarettes and so on.

There's there's certain things that perhaps are better in The privacy of your home when you're surrounded by people who are like

-minded or whatever.

I think Paul did things like that as well with me and things like that, you know, he said I'm gonna yes I can do

these things, but I'm gonna forego it for the cause of Christ, you know.

I'll become all things to all men.

Not not saying that I will change the message.

But I'm not gonna put an unnecessary stumbling block in front of people.

If I have to forego some liberty that I can legally partake of in order to win a person to Christ.

So be it.

I don't think we should go.

Oh, look at me.

I'm so fantastic.

I'm so free.

You gotta be careful with that.

Yeah, and it's and there's also a difference between somebody.

Who.

Occasionally in a celebratory fashion or in a Who just very

Moderately smokes a cigar and somebody who's always got a cigarette hanging out of their mouth, you know.

I mean, there are differences of of the appearance that you're giving to the world with that kind of thing.

But I think there has to be a consistent have to be consistent

about it.

And I remember talking my friend a couple years ago.

He said do you think smoking?

Simple I say inherently, you know, I think we should preserve our health as much as possible.

The general principle of that so we can.

And he was kind of nodding his head and said, okay.

Yeah, and you know and I think for what I know a number of the puritans are smoking pipes.

Not that that you know, go ahead and do it or anything.

But how would I put it?

It's like we've got to be Careful, it's very easy to you know, the swing in the pendulum between

complete lawlessness.

You don't want that either to.

Legalism, right and I don't know if you know this person, but we've got a listener in Dublin, Ireland

Who sent us a question?

I'm gonna give his full name just in case you know who he is.

I don't typically give a full name, but Benjamin McIntyre from Dublin, Ireland.

Oh, yes. I do.

Okay, he asks what is your counsel to those in the faith who struggle with addiction

be it alcohol drugs?

Pornography.

I know you have Already dealt with this to some degree and can you explain sanctification

versus.

Unrepentance.

You remind me the first one again.

With with any kind of addiction whether it be alcohol drugs or even pornography.

Get as far away from it as possible and As possible you can't become a monk.

You can't disappear from the world.

You're going to see things but as much as possible if you know.

Like, you know, sometimes people will see the stumbling as getting a little bit inebriated.

Maybe the stumbling is Seeking the bottle.

No, don't have it in your house.

Then, you know, these things are Christian liberties.

But if it's caught, you know, if it's bringing you into bondage, then it's not liberty at all.

It's not the so just with the pornography thing.

Keep away, you might have to just not go in the internet, you know, it's right at times.

You know, you might have to not go.

I mean you might have to not go to Maybe the supermarket maybe maybe it's really sunny weather and you know that

women are not going to dress appropriately.

And you have to avoid a certain area or pray about it

but it's not gonna be exactly the same for every single person and Some people need to go shopping

Every now and again, well, whatever you have to do do all things for the glory of God that whatever you're doing

I'm gonna do this so that I can be closer to my God that has to be that that has to be the goal.

Again, I mean if this would help us in our sanctification Bible would have a

list of things to not to do and to do right.

And.

I think that it's obviously intelligent to for a season and that

may differ from person to person also depending upon the their

ability to completely break free of These

addictions, but you may need to have a season where you have complete isolation from

Those with whom you enjoyed that particular sin obviously be very

foolish for somebody who was a Habitual drunkard after coming to

Christ going right back to the bar to evangelize his friends or something.

Exactly, and we're whatever the situation is.

So I remember for example even with me and you know.

Like I struggled for a few months after I stayed with like pornography and things I had lost because I lived in an

incredibly immoral lifestyle before I was saved.

And I remember I mean there was a couple of months later.

It was about I Don't think was a good idea regardless, but it was kind of a Christian ball.

It was attending and it was first half was grace.

And I remember the the dance music was kicked off was run by Christians and you

know.

Men and women were kind of dancing inappropriately and I was like I have to get out of here and I just ran out of.

There I just and they could tell I was upset.

But in in such a situation You just have to flee you can't debate with us.

You can't like say why.

You just have those times when you just have to run.

You have to do what Joseph did and run.

And Benjamin's second question was can you explain sanctification versus

Unrepentance.

From the outside.

It can be almost impossible sometimes to tell how many people knew that Judas was an unrepentant apostate.

So we can do things in an outward way for very should try not to go that

person saved that person's lost.

But I know that you know, I know personally that that's not what he's getting at.

But what's the difference.

One will produce fruits one will the person who's truly being regenerated will grow.

There will be a struggle in Romans chapter 7 possible within the saved

believer and.

And there's that kind of the old man and the new man.

The fact that you're struggling if there's somebody a new believer out there the fact that you're struggling is a sign.

There's a good sign that you're saved.

You know, not that you're you know, I have so much sin in my life.

The thing about it is the unrepentant sinner won't see the sin in their life.

Hebrews chapter 12 verses 5 to 8 talks about that the father if whom he loves he will chase

him.

So when you sin, do you feel horrible and not because you've been caught by somebody or not?

Because you don't feel religious or important enough because you've disappointed your father in heaven the massive

difference.

You're not as worried about the penalty of the judgment.

But how to put your you're you're brokenhearted that you have disappointed your father.

I mean, you know, like if you're raising your children, you can't just raise them with a rod.

You've got to show them love you've got to show them and then when they disappoint you it's sometimes

worse for the child then.

Saving, you know, you know.

Physically disciplined or anything like that.

It's much worse.

Then.

Oh daddy have disappointed you and is that kind of fatherly love?

How do you and assurance is something you grow in?

You know.

You have to make your calling in election.

Sure Peter tells us we're supposed to examine ourselves.

That Paul says to the Corinthians to see if we be in the faith.

It's not this kind of when you've made your decision and never doubted again.

I think I'll scream if I ever hear that again, but you know, it's you grow in assurance.

I have seen people apostatized in ways that have broken my heart.

Even in the short time last seven years have been saved you know people have later on denied Trinity or people have

gone back into the New Age in a more ferocious way and Look on the outside like they were

wonderfully born again.

The thing is will they persevere until the end?

That person shall be saved not because they persevere until the end.

But this is what a saved Christian looks like.

We also have to realize that.

Sometimes people will be in the visible church right until the end

and May never be truly born again.

That's why I love the way the Westminster Confession of Faith get my plug out there.

Westminster Says, you know the church of a mixed nature, you know, there's going to be

unbelievers.

There's gonna be cares among the weak.

There's going to be.

I think that takes the pressure off that we have to have.

Everybody is saved, but everybody in the visible church must have a profession of faith

but it's and that's.

You know and a true believer Will love God and if you love God

you will Loathe yourself over your sin you will but you will have joy in the Lord

and other things won't be as Interesting to you and you'll grow in that now and people

have that to varying degrees.

The unrepentant person though who's being religious?

I think it's a bit more obvious if a person just rejects it and leaves the fold completely.

But if they're unrepentant, they will do things not because they love God.

But because they want to be liked by people around them.

Be very careful of that that you're not doing it to be you know.

To be seen as great before men to be religious before men.

Amen.

And we do have another question from Jeff and

Clinton Township who asks a basically a question on the same

issue that we were addressing before and Jeff you'll be interested to know that I called in.

Probably somewhere in the late 1980s.

I called into the white horse in radio program with the same Question that you had when

they were discussing Christian liberty and I actually called in

at this point Prior to Embracing the idea

that Christians had the liberty to moderately Consume wine and alcoholic

beverages as long as it did not lead to drunkenness.

And I asked them the same question that you are asking Jeff.

Jeff s what about pot or marijuana once in a while since it's legal in some

areas.

If you could comment on that Paul, well pornography is also legal.

So I the problem pot is you get high straight away, right.

And I don't from experience.

So there's no kind of.

There's such a thing.

As you know, there's health benefits to moderate drinking of alcohol.

It kills bacteria in the stomach.

It's good for your heart.

It's known as the French paradox in France, you know the health benefits of us, you know.

Like Paul says to Timothy drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake.

But there's no such thing.

I can't see it anywhere.

As you know, I'll get a little buzzed every now and again.

There's no kind of.

Right, I can enjoy glass of wine and I've never anywhere near drunk.

Right is if you have even a hit a pot you're straight away your buzz.

And that's the that's the sole reason for smoking pot.

It's you know to to bring yourself into some level of altered consciousness.

Now, I don't know.

I'll be honest.

I don't know about the medical marijuana thing.

I mean, I really don't know.

I wouldn't want to comment on necessarily in ignorance, but I can't see.

I can't see the same, you know.

I know people say oh, it's a legal high and all this but the Bible in moderation used in the right way actually

commends.

I can't remember the exact person off the top of my head, but you know drinking in moderation and it's.

See even in Ireland we say, you know, what what's your poison as.

Then we treat alcohol as a poison but it's not if if used in moderation because it can

have health benefits if used wisely and.

Pharmachea Which is where we get the word pharmacy is specifically

Condemned in the the Bible and is connected with sorcery and that kind of a thing.

So I would also suggest that when we do look at some of these Contemporary

issues and I'm going to bring up the one on medical marijuana.

Well, you can't go into too much detail because we get seven minutes left.

Many times there is a whole other side of that that is left out of the discussion.

That is.

Important information for the discussion, right?

And of course if somebody is in in a hospital and agonizing pain or even at home.

With a terminal illness, there are drugs that they take that that Christians would not even oppose.

It isn't a legal high it isn't high at all.

It's using a medicinal property of marijuana.

And you're right, right, right, right.

Exactly.

So, I mean, we can't be superstitious about these things either.

But that that you have to be very careful about.

Giving people the false idea that because of that exception they can run rampant with.

Abusing that issue, but I think it's all really hit the nail on the head when he said that you know anything in moderation.

Really, you know all things are lawful.

Not all things are expedient.

Well when you say anything in moderation, are you saying something that immediately gets you high?

No, that well there that gets back to your whole use of the word pharmakeia, you know.

People drink alcohol for the taste and whereas they don't do that with pot.

Okay, so you're agreeing with us buzz.

Yes, by the way buzz.

Why did you why do you have that nickname?

Yes, that's actually why they call him buzz.

Paul you can you don't have to be too nervous about buzzes nickname.

I.

One thing that I've been dying to ask you and we're running out of time rapidly.

But who gave you this stronger objection and more negative reaction.

Your Roman Catholic family for leaving Rome?

Or your Drunken heavy metalhead friends for you abandoning that

lifestyle.

Mostly the metalhead because like I had left for all my catholicism.

Already and whenever I was there was.

It was Christmases and things like that.

So I've been a professing atheist dabbling in Satanism for quite a long time before that.

So I kind of left I think you know, I kind of been away from that for a long time.

But I remember yeah, there was a couple of people who really Not really didn't re -verbalize it

too much.

The odd person sent me an email here and there.

Remember how it was.

I mean, I remember I did a lot of research into like people like Alistair Crowley For a movie did years ago,

but no longer on the internet, but I remember just you know.

How wicked after Crowley was but then she went away former bands, you know.

Almost picking him up as a kind of an archetype for them to aspire to.

You know like I don't know was he involved in child molestation or something like that, but he was into really weird stuff.

Even kicked out of France at one point, but it's just the whole lifestyle.

Yeah I mean, it's like you've apostatized but I think a lot of people thought I'd be back.

He's having a meltdown or he's like gone through I get you know.

People have been picking me out of ditches and I've been I you know that that month I got saved I hit my

lowest point and I think people people were actually scared for me.

So they were kind of I think some of them were like, oh, well, he's like he comes back stronger.

But I think they realized six months eight months later that no, this is different.

I had a friend of mine, right?

We should she was good friend of mine for a long long long time and I remember her Looking at me in the

eyes and going.

Oh, you're just completely different and I was like praise Lord yeah, and I had this

kind of peace and joy and I Just you know, it was

I pray that that I pray that I will be a testimony to her.

But it's just.

You know, I never really looked back.

I remember I did go to one metal concert after I got saved in a kind of an attempt to kind of go.

You know, I don't want to go to Radical.

Yes.

I'm a Christian.

Yes, I believe in Jesus, but I don't want to be too whatever.

But then I just realized, you know what the conversations people were having I just didn't feel comfortable there.

I remember like, you know, they were making jokes salute jokes, and I was just like, oh man.

A few months ago and it just felt like oh boy.

I just have to get out of here and I only went once.

Now did anybody since you're from Ireland?

Did anybody? associate your Departure from Roman Catholicism with a

betrayal of your Irishness and of course because of the long

the centuries -long Conflict going on between the Irish and the British

that is more politically motivated than it is religiously even though it's couched and

disguised as religion being at the core of the of the battle that has

raged which is obviously a lot Less severe than it used to be now.

But did anybody associate with you as with being a traitor of any sort more kind of

it was kind of more Under on, you know, I'm not really explicitly said but

you could tell that that's what some people meant.

And you know one or two people in my family stuff like that.

But it was more, you know off the call if it wasn't really more setting kind of like annoyance, but

the thing is.

You know, it wasn't so much like I mean I think in Roman Catholicism me at least in the circles I went into people don't really care what you

believe as long as you're not well a Protestant.

Enjoying any kind of weird cult as you want.

I it's not necessarily like that but it's just the word Protestant has been so

associated with certain movements and Often people who've never darkened the word of a church in their

life.

You know a lot of these paramilitaries in the north northern Ireland.

I've never been right and There and a lot of people even tell me that is like these people they've met they're not

Protestants.

They they didn't go to church.

They're like maybe second or third generation.

And they made outside Britishness what they were defending not Christian, right, right and we are out of

time.

Paul and just for those of our listening audience who are unfamiliar with Paul You can go to his website

Megiddo films org M as in Michael e g I

Ddo that's D isn't David D isn't David Oh films org Paul Flynn it

has been such a joy to have you back on the program and I cannot wait for you to come back.

Again as a guest in iron sharpens iron.

I mean, it's brilliant.

Thanks so many for having me.

I want to thank you so much.

Look forward to your return and thank you Reverend buzz Taylor for being my co -host.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

We look forward to receiving your questions for our guests tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio.