March 8, 2018 Show with Jason Wallace on “Is the Pope Catholic?”

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you a happy Thursday and today

is the eighth day of March 2018.

I'm delighted to have returning to the program my friend Jason

Wallace.

Jason Wallace has been a guest on this program quite a number of times and I am always thrilled to

have him back.

He's the pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church of Magna, Utah which is near

Salt Lake City and he is the producer of lds .video and we're going to hear

about a lot of the videos that they have produced, very professional level and

highly informative and valuable videos on Mormonism especially but also

on Roman Catholicism, homosexuality and other issues.

Today we are discussing that age -old rhetorical question, is the Pope

Catholic?

And we are starting to wonder whether or not that is a rhetorical question anymore

and we'll find out more why on the program and it's my honor and.

Privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jason Wallace.

And I'm going.

To right away give our email address for those of our listeners who care to join us

on the air with a question of their own.

It is

chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your

country of residence if you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous if

your question involves a personal and private matter and I can see an

issue like this lending itself to someone wanting to remain anonymous.

Perhaps you're a Roman Catholic and you're beginning to question your faith and you'd rather not draw attention to yourself.

I can understand that.

Perhaps you're an Evangelical Protestant who is beginning to question your faith and you're beginning to drift

across the Tiber River toward Rome and I've met a number of folks, in fact I know

that there is a number of, are a number of folks in this listening audience who are considering

becoming Roman Catholic.

Some of them converting to Roman Catholicism for the first time or reverting

having been Catholic from childhood and then having left it and some are

after a number of years in the Evangelical Christian community are considering returning to

it.

Well my guest and I are both Reformed Protestants, he an

Orthodox Presbyterian and myself being a Reformed Baptist and we both believe that that would be

a spiritually fatal move because we do not believe the Roman Catholic Church is

a true church nor do we believe it has a true gospel although we would both admit

that thanks be to the grace and mercy of Christ there are many Roman Catholics who are indeed saved

but that is in spite of the teaching there and these people would be

folks who very often believed in the genuine or should I say in

every instance that they're truly saved they believe in the true gospel of the

Bible of Christ that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ

alone to the glory of God alone but they are either ignorant of the fact that the

Church of Rome does not teach that and I've met a number of Catholics who aren't aware of that or they are

for some reason remaining Catholic and thinking that they will be a 21st century Martin

Luther or something like that or for various other reasons out of fear of breaking up their family or their marriage

and the list could go on and on but Jason before we go deeper into our theme

of is the Pope Catholic tell us for those of our listeners who are

discovering you for the first time because this is only the third episode I don't

know if you're aware of this Pastor Jason this is the third episode of Iron Trip and Zion Radio on a brand new network

First Love Radio oh wonderful operating out of Dublin California

and we are heard globally and I'm not even sure you were on the program when we were also

added to the lineup of Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City Florida

but so there may be many new listeners who have never heard you before who are unfamiliar with your the

debates that you've orchestrated and participated in there in Magna Utah

featuring James White featuring yourself and featuring others but tell us about Christ.

Presbyterian

Church of Magna

Utah.

Sure.

Wow

I

could.

I know

that

what makes

that

startling

is.

That you've included Japan because Japan is less than one percent Christian if the

the statistics are still the same as they were back in the earlier 2000s.

I had a listener in Japan who wrote in to me thanking me for

a broadcast I conducted exposing the heresies of the Moonies and

she had wrote in because she was she and her husband were Moonies involved in an

arranged marriage by Reverend Sung Myung Moon the late Reverend Sung Myung Moon

and she the the burden of her heart was to find a bible -believing church because the only one even

remotely near her was a Roman Catholic church and she said and I had heard that this was true at that

time anyway that Japan is less than one percent Christian.

I don't know if that's still accurate.

You know anything.

About that I think

it's kind of wow wow

that's that's amazing

and that's that's

including like

the

United

Church

of

Christ

well

as

I

always

do

whenever

you

mention

the

title

of

the

video.

Uh where you use the phrase gay Christian.

Uh an earnest plea to a gay Christian.

Is that what it is.

Yeah and and we have to make sure that we make it clear that we don't believe there's such a thing.

That's

a it's

an

oxymoron.

Well

uh

the

uh before

we

even

go

into is

the Pope

Catholic

which is.

Our major theme today.

You had a recent discussion debate I don't know which you would how you would.

Describe it circus.

Uh sideshow uh a lot of terms.

Well Sean McCraney who has a television program.

In Utah who is a former Mormon uh had a

confrontation or however you want to describe it on his television program with

our mutual friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who is a Reformed Baptist

apologist who is a New Testament Greek scholar who is a world

-renowned debater and um we could go on and on with the accolades of Dr. White.

Most of my listeners I think know who he is and he uh was

making an effort to by God's grace point Sean

McCraney to his errors in regard to modalism I believe was the primary

subject of that discussion.

Now if you could please first of all tell us who Sean McCraney is in a more vivid

detailed explanation and tell us about modalism.

That's something that for any of our Roman Catholic friends and listeners are still

listening before we get to the question is the Pope Catholic.

Although we do not consider uh dogmatically faithful Catholics

as our brothers and sisters we know that they at least agree with us on the Trinity.

But if you could uh explain uh who Sean McCraney is and tell us about modalism.

A

bit

by

the

way

don't

we

Calvinists

do that all the

time.

I'm

just

kidding

he

was.

I'm

just

kidding

oh

yeah.

He

announces

it

and

so

he's

a

universalist.

In fact

he

admitted

during

his

discussion with Dr. White that he was inconsistent.

His followers.

It's not a very high bar for anybody else to aim for in their own lives or their own.

Understanding.

I

mean

Sean.

Sean a

good thing.

Sean

you

know.

Over

there.

He kind of looks like he could be in the uh oh yeah professional wrestling world.

Yeah he's like the uh the key speaker it seems on hyper

-preterism.

Yeah and uh I have met him.

Myself

at a debate that

he

was

involved in.

I

know

who he

is.

Sounds

like

Joseph

Smith.

Exactly I mean

exactly

it's you

don't

have to.

Well

it

was

it

was

very clear painfully obvious.

That Dr. White uh had the spirit of God and the truth on his side

uh and you could even see that it really developed into a teacher

-student kind of a scenario where Dr. White was really being recognized even by Sean

McCraney as some kind of a superior.

I mean it was to me blatantly obvious.

That's the way it developed.

Of course I'm not saying it remained that way after Dr. White left the building but um

he he he at the very least at the very least Sean McCraney during the

event seemed to be very open and polite

and eager to hear Dr. White's explanations of things.

Yeah I

mean

sure but

we have

to go to a

break

right now and when we return we will switch gears.

And begin the program with the main topic at hand.

Uh which is is the Pope Catholic.

Once a rhetorical question meant to be humorous now a question that is being taken very seriously

by Catholics and Protestants alike.

Uh and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnson

at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Pastor Jason Wallace on.

Is the Pope Catholic.

Right after these messages.

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Today.

Charles heddon spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading.

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Hi i'm pastor bill shishko.

Inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study.

Every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m eastern time on wlie radio

www .wlie540am .com we

bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with

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Our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull.

Join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study.

Because everyone needs a pastor welcome back.

This is chris arnson and that.

Voice you just heard uh pastor bill shishko is a mutual friend of my

guest today and mine uh my friend uh pastor jason wallace.

And i have known uh pastor bill shishko for quite a long time.

And if you call in to a visit to the pastor study pastor bill shishko's live

call -in show which is heard every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m eastern time on

wlie540am .com and also in the new york tri -state area and even parts

of rhode island and massachusetts and um pennsylvania you can hear it

on the am dial on your radio at 5 40 a .m.

But if you call in to the show please tell pastor bill that you heard about a visit

to the pastor study from chris arnson on iron sharpens iron radio and tell him that chris arnson and pastor

jason wallace send their greetings.

In fact pastor bill shishko does quite a number of voiceovers for your

documentaries that.

You have recorded or produced under the umbrella of lds .video.

Correct.

Yeah i guess that's me.

Well uh let me repeat our email address for anybody who would like to send in a question and we do have a couple of people uh

waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But i want to get into the subject a little bit before i read their questions.

Uh the the theme of today is is the pope catholic.

And we kind of can't help but chuckle about that because it's an age -old saying that is

meant to be stating the obvious.

It's really not a question.

It's like do you love spaghetti and meatballs as the pope catholic.

And there's another one about a bear that i will not mention on air on a christian radio program.

But uh i mean and there's another one does the pope wear a funny hat.

But um that one we know is true.

As far as the pope being catholic well obviously he is a

member of what is known as the roman catholic church.

But he has been making statements and declaring things not

dogmatically not ex cathedra or ex cathedra depending upon how you want to state that

which would be dogmatically binding in the church of rome.

If the pope declares something or defines something dogmatically or or

declares it ex cathedra or ex cathedra.

That means that every catholic forever until christ returns is supposed

to believe that those things cannot be changed.

But the things that the but pope francis the current pope has been saying quite a lot even

i think before he was a pope when he was a cardinal he was saying things that

would uh delight leftists and liberals and apostates and

make not only bible believing protestants cringe with disgust

and discomfort and horror.

At times even your conservative and especially your traditionalist roman catholics

would react in the same way.

So please tell us about the the major theme i know that is the pope

catholic is a subcategory of a major theme in one of your documentaries that you're actually currently.

Working

on.

And

what

specifically was

he

referring

to.

As far as.

Uh magisterial

reform.

Uh

the

liturgical liturgical reform i'm sorry.

Oh for instance like uh the english mass and things

like that you

have.

Now can

you repeat

what you just

said for

some reason that

did not

register

in my

ears

correctly or

at

all.

Yeah i've

never

been catholic.

I've seen

some of

them

and

just.

Just a little bit to clarify since some of our listeners maybe a lot of them are scratching their heads the agnes day

is where the priest says lamb of god who takes away the sins of the world have mercy.

That's correct.

Okay.

Right.

Yeah i'm sorry.

I was raised roman catholic and was an altar boy and went to catholic school for eight years

uh before uh coming to christ uh through the biblical gospel and the power grace and mercy of

christ.

So anyway i'm sorry i interrupted you.

There.

Yeah

i

altogether

that

that

every

time i

look

into

her

history

i am

more

and more

confirmed.

That i was correct due to the guiding of the holy spirit to

leave and abandon and renounce the roman catholic church and become a bible believing

protestant and more specifically a reformed.

Baptist

and then

we're

going to

return

to

athanasius

contramundum

after

the

middle

break.

Which is a longer break than normal.

It's 12 minutes long because grace life radio 90 .1 fm lake city florida requires a 12 minute break

between our two segments on the show.

So uh please take this time not only to write down the information uh that our advertisers are providing so that you

can patronize them but also take this time to write in questions of your own to chris arnzen

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Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away we'll be right back after this midway break with pastor jason wallace and the

age -old rhetorical question is the pope catholic.

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He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

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solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or

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Welcome back.

This is chris.

Ornes and if you just tuned us in our guest today for the full two hours with a little less than an hour to go

is my friend pastor jason wallace pastor of christ presbyterian church in magna

utah which is a suburb of salt lake city.

We are discussing the theme is the pope catholic.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

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You just heard before i started speaking an ad by our sponsors one of our key

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Also our friends at the alliance of confessing evangelicals are once again

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Chris arnson at gmail .com.

And our guest as i said is pastor jason wallace of christ presbyterian church of magna utah

and the producer of lds .video today we are discussing is the pope catholic.

And right before the break you were talking about athanasia athanasius uh and the

the famous saying uh athanasius contra mundum which means athanasius is against the world.

Because there was a time when nearly everyone even in leadership in the catholic church

was in opposition to athanasius as he was defending the deity of christ uh opposed

to the arian view that is commonly held by jehovah's witnesses today that jesus

was not truly god while also being truly man.

If you could continue.

Where we left

off.

When you go back

through

history i

have a

friend

gary

wolf uh

on

long

island

who calls me that for some reason i have no idea why.

You're very fortunate.

I'm here.

Well i would be in

that

category

as

well.

Yeah

i.

And

of

course

you have

leftists

in

particular

constantly

saying.

That the constitution guarantees a separation of church and state.

There's nothing in the constitution that said that.

That was thomas jefferson's private appeal to baptists to assure them

that the founding of this nation would not involve the founding of a religion that would be

binding on all of them including the baptists where they would have to renounce things and and that the

government basically it was.

It was a reassurance that the government government.

Would not intrude on the baptist's

faith

practice in

life

you know in

wow

uh that

i

don't

know

how

i

missed

that.

Yeah

the

the

early

church

modern

right.

In fact

you

you

will

find

uh on

many.

Statues of mary that roman catholics venerate.

Uh you will see the serpent beneath her feet.

Wow could you.

Could you go through all six or as long as many as time will allow when we come back from our final break which we are

going to now.

Okay uh we are going to our final break and we do have some of you

still waiting to have your questions asked and we will get to you as soon as possible.

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gmail .com.

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Remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away god willing we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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And we are back to our final 25 minutes or so of our discussion today

uh with jason wallace pastor of christ presbyterian church of magna utah and producer of lds

.video we are discussing is the pope catholic a once thought of

uh a question that was once thought of as a rhetorical question and a comical question spoken

in jest which has actually become a real question that is being posed by not

only bible believing christians but even roman catholics of the

conservative and traditionalist bent.

And if you want to join us on the air now is the time to do so or forever hold your peace as we are running out of time rapidly.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com.

And i'm going to read a question to you by ted in tuscaloosa alabama that is going back

to the sean mccraney issue uh.

But then we have to quickly move into the main subject at hand.

Uh i just wanted to make sure that we didn't interrupt a thread here too much with a a question on a different

topic.

Ted says i saw your appearance on sean mccraney's tv show in which you were cornered by his daughter

at the end of the program as she got in your face and sternly lectured you on your

hesitation to declare that you loved a certain audience member who had also asked you a question.

I was bowled over by how poised you were in that situation.

You comported yourself very winsomely as we were formed.

So love to say these days i was imagining somebody like a tim bailey thundering silence woman in

response to her most undifferential feminine manner or tony

miyano instructed her to excuse the quiet spirit of god has given you which generally goes over like a

lead balloon.

I'm wondering if you could share with the audience your take on that experience.

And if you had any advice for those of us who find our encounters in the marketplace

becoming increasingly contentious as this encounter clearly was for you.

And by the way i just want to make it clear that that was my listeners comments about the two people he

mentioned not mine.

But anyway if you could uh pastor jason respond to his question quickly.

And then let's move on to.

Our main

subject

here

basically.

Okay

well

let's

move

on to

the main

subject at

hand

because i

want.

To get to as many of those six issues that you uh stated beforehand that uh

a number of roman catholics uh have convened to challenge pope francis on

certain issues six at least and and.

If

you

could

repeat

what you were

saying

about

that

before

the break yeah

i'll

know.

Yeah

he's

a.

Friend of mine even though i have radical disagreements with him.

In fact if anybody wants to hear my interview with bob singenis on

pope francis uh whom he has a lot of uh

disagreement with uh and although he has to rein himself in and be respectful according

to his own beliefs as a roman catholic he believes he does have the freedom to openly

and publicly criticize him as long as it is with respect.

Um and he did very uh strongly criticize pope francis.

And you could just type in s -u -n -g -e -n -i -s in the ironsherpensironradio .com search engine and

you'll find.

That interview.

But

anyway

i'm sorry i

interrupted you.

Well as far as the uh

i

know that

bob singenis.

Does not defend latin mass or should i say uh exclusive

latin you know like a like a protestant might be an exclusive psalmist.

Uh he uh would in fact was going to debate.

His friend jerry matatix who is now a sativacantist does not believe

that there has been any valid pope in fact no valid priests ordained under

the bishops of popes since vatican ii uh and he

still believes that the biblical one and a needed one but that it's vacant.

But uh bob singenis i know he believes in uh the mass

celebrated in the native tongue of whoever is celebrating it.

But but uh jerry matatix i know would be more in the in the the

area of rejecting everything of vatican ii that.

Does not coincide with vatican ii

as have i out out here and or actually in new york.

Kind of an ironic name for pope innocent isn't it.

But if i want to make sure though that before we run out of time you go into some of the specific things.

That is that pope francis.

Is being challenged on from his fellow catholics.

In

fact

for those of our listeners who aren't.

Aware of this and you could correct me if i'm wrong but i'm almost certain having been a roman catholic myself

for my childhood through my early teens uh a roman catholic

who was divorced for any reason at all even if they were the innocent victim in a

divorce they could not for the rest of their lives receive the mass.

I don't know if that's still correct.

I don't know if that was a dogmatic uh thing but that was certainly the practice that i was familiar with

as a catholic.

He

says

who am

i to

judge and we would agree with him on that but that would be on any issue.

Yeah um

it's

hilarious.

It's

an

odd

statement

for a

pope to

make.

Yeah i.

When you go back through.

By the way let me just quickly interject that if anybody wants to order a book by my friend william webster

titled the matthew 16 controversy peter and the rock go to

christiantruth .com christiantruth .com and then you can click on store

then click on books and scroll down to the matthew 16 controversy which our guest jason

wallace just mentioned.

It is a patristic.

Resource proving that the fathers did not view

peter

as a first

pope.

We do

have a question uh.

From bb in cumberland county pennsylvania.

She wants to know.

Uh i'm assuming that you would actually agree with pope francis

that people who have been married and remarried after divorce are welcome

to the lord's table and even church membership.

The issue is that the roman catholic church has not historically taught that and that pope francis is

militating against the historically held position by his own church.

And i am not in here inferring that you agree with pope francis on

a host of other issues and that he is far to the left of you and even believes in things that both rome

and geneva would deem to be apostate teachings.

Yes but but but i don't.

She was i think wise in having you clarify because people might be thinking that you agree with these

catholics protesting francis's view about uh being welcomed back into

the church.

After

divorce

and

remarriage

we

want

to.

It

feels

more

religious.

It

feels

like

i have had

catholics.

Say to me when they have visited worship services at the churches or the congregations

where i've away from

lung cancer even though he never smoked a day in his life he was a roman catholic a dear friend of mine john

capillus his wife when he uh and uh when john and his wife

visited the congregation where i used to belong to in new york she said to him i'm never

going back there again.

Or to any protestant church it's not a religion and they they

view the rites and the ceremony as such a requirement for it to be

real worship if you follow what i'm saying unless i'm just.

Babbling here.

No we just have

a couple

because

we're

running

out

of time

and

we

still

look

i'll

make

it

real

short.

We we

did by

the

way

i think that

uh we should

try

to get a couple

of

our.

Listener questions.

And before we run it ahead we have harrison in mechanicsburg pennsylvania who says

isn't this information about pope francis militating against historic catholicism and

even against biblical christianity an excellent resource or proof

to our roman catholic friends that their claim to have an infallible

interpreter and the only safe guide to understanding the bible and

christianity accurately is a farce.

They will continually say that sola scriptura which they will claim is nowhere in the bible

leads to anarchy and chaos.

And yet here they have a pope that doesn't even agree with the catholic church let alone historic.

Christianity.

Yeah i

wasn't.

You have.

You have

faculty

members in roman catholic universities.

And institutions of higher learning teaching all kinds of leftists and apostate things.

And they are not being disciplined or sanctioned at all huh.

Funny.

Right.

I'm sorry.

Yes i mean liberation theology

and

uh the the

way that papal encyclicals and speeches and statements.

Can be reinterpreted by catholics to make uh their church

sound orthodox.

Whether they are on the far right or the far left or anything in between shows you that

that so -called infallible interpreter means nothing because you need an infallible interpreter.

For the infallible interpreter you get.

You always have this spin going on with especially with conservative catholics.

Saying that the pope didn't really mean that.

You know.

No i'm not referring to her like anthony kennedy.

Yeah i'm more referring to.

Uh i'm playing with you.

I know i'm like they're like catholic answers.

Uh i.

Well i didn't know that.

Yeah.

And he's a professing catholic right.

And well you've.

And it's messy.

Yeah we're out

of

time

brother.

I'm

sorry to

cut

you off.

Uh i

know that

your.

Website for christ presbyterian church in magna utah is gospel utah .org gospel

utah .org.

I know that your website for the the documentary videos is lds .video

lds .video.

I also want to uh let our listeners know that they can listen to a fascinating interview by a roman

catholic mark michael zima on mother theresa a saint to be revered or false

teacher to be exposed a past program in iron trap and zion radio just look for it in the

archive.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.