September 13, 2024 Show with Tobias Riemenschneider on “The Rise of Anti-Semitism & Admiration of Adolf Hitler in the 21st Century”

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September 16, 2024

00:03: Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer
00:11: George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend
00:16: Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
00:23: Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
00:31: Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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00:58: And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,
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01:21: This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 13th day of September 2024.
01:32: We are here to forever destroy the myth that Friday the 13th is bad luck, and I am looking forward to introducing to you our guest and our topic for the day.
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03:41: We hope to see as many of you there as possible. Well, I am absolutely thrilled to have a returning guest, and as thrilled as I am, it is under tragic circumstances because we are unbelievably going to be discussing today the rise of anti -Semitism and admiration for Adolf Hitler and the
04:09: Nazis, and we're not talking about those idiotic, spoiled brats on college campuses who are wearing costumes trying to look like they are
04:26: Pakistanis and members of Hamas, as horrible as that is.
04:33: We're not talking about that. We are talking about the rise of anti -Semitism and admiration for Hitler and the
04:39: Nazis among professing Christians and even among professing confessional
04:47: Reformed Christians, as shocking as that may sound. We have a returning guest who is an ideal guest to discuss this with me today, a guest that I have grown to love interviewing and look forward to meeting face -to -face, hopefully in the near future.
05:07: In fact, I'm really hoping that he is featured as one of our Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon's speakers in the not -so -distant future, and we'll keep you updated on that if we can pull that off,
05:23: God willing. But today's guest is Tobias Riemenschneider, who is an anti -abortion activist, author of the
05:33: Frankfurt Declaration of Christian and Civil Liberties and Resisting Tyranny, a
05:40: Christian response to government overreach, and he's also the pastor of Evangelical Reformed Baptist Church in Frankfurt, Germany, where he is our guest today, live from Frankfurt, and we are discussing the aforementioned topic, the rise of anti -Semitism and admiration of Adolf Hitler and the
06:04: Nazis in the 21st century. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Tobias Riemenschneider.
06:13: Thank you so much, brother. It's an honor to be back. And I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away, in the event that you would like to join us on the air with questions for Pastor Tobias, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
06:30: C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state of residence, and country of residence if you live outside the
06:39: USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
06:46: Also, I would like to ask you, Pastor Tobias, to start off by giving a description of the
06:57: Evangelical Reformed Baptist Church of Frankfurt, Germany. Yeah, I'm happy to do so.
07:04: So this church is a 1689 Reformed Baptist Church, one of only very few in Frankfurt.
07:13: The church planting started in 2014, so a little more than 10 years ago, and the church was incorporated officially in 2016, so coming up eight years.
07:30: I, together with my co -pastor Peter, have been pastoring that church since then, so for more than eight years now.
07:38: I am not a trained theologian. I was actually trained as a lawyer and worked as a lawyer for 10 years, and then became the pastor of the church, first only part -time, now full -time, and the church, by God's grace, has been constantly growing.
08:00: We are currently, on a given Sunday, about 150, 160 people, many, many children, and we are the biggest
08:14: Reformed church in Germany, and we're trying to use that, and we will try to fight abortion.
08:21: We are on the streets. Just recently, we were on the streets when there was the big gay pride parade in Frankfurt.
08:30: I will, again, be on the streets at a gay pride parade in another city next week.
08:38: To evangelize those participating in that. Oh, yes. We've got to make that clear.
08:46: Oh, okay, yeah. But in case there was any doubt, we are there to evangelize and preach the gospel on the streets.
08:54: No other reason than that. Right. Yeah, you're right.
09:00: Well, if anybody wants more information about the Evangelical Reformed Baptist Church of Frankfurt, Germany, go to their website, erb -frankfurt .de,
09:13: that's erb -frankfurt .de, and also, if you want more information about the
09:22: Frankfurt Declaration of Christian and Civil Liberties, authored by my guest, go to frankfurtdeclaration .com,
09:31: frankfurtdeclaration .com, and for information on his book,
09:36: Resisting Tyranny, which you can purchase both in a softcover book format or an e -book, go to ezrapress .ca,
09:50: e -z -r -a -press .ca, and type Tobias in the search engine, and this book will come up.
10:00: Well, Tobias, as I've already mentioned at the outset of the program, there have been developments recently.
10:08: I just began hearing about these startling things several weeks ago, primarily through our mutual friend,
10:20: Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and his Dividing Line webcast, and at first, it appeared that these things that were being posted in social media that were defenses of Hitler and the
10:45: Nazis and defenses of anti -Semitism from so -called confessional
10:52: Reformed Baptists, at first, it appears that these folks who were not known to Dr.
11:01: White or myself could have been isolated instances or examples of nutjobs out there who are lone wolves and mavericks, possibly not even members of churches, mouthing off and saying the most abominable things that you can imagine in regard to this subject.
11:25: But now, as time progresses, it seems that there is support for this satanic drivel, even from established churches and pastors.
11:39: If you could, tell me and our audience when you first began hearing about this and your reaction to it, and feel free to speak as long as you'd like to be as detailed as you possibly can.
11:57: Okay, thank you. By the way, I was the one who told
12:03: James White about this, and he was aware of some things, but I gave him some more information.
12:09: Especially, I sent him a certain meme that he talked about on The Dividing Line, and I also sent it to Doug Wilson, who also talked about it on his podcast.
12:20: And the reaction James White got, he says he hasn't experienced something like that in 40 years of ministry.
12:30: Wow. So many attacks. He had to ban, or he had to block more people than ever before.
12:43: And he says his eyes have now been opened to what's really going on. And I've been talking to many pastors in the last weeks and months about this, some well -known pastors from America, from Canada, from Great Britain, and they all see this, and they are all very concerned, and they all have cases of this in their own churches.
13:11: So we are talking about this and trying to discern what to do about this, how to oppose this.
13:18: But to go back to your question, the first time
13:24: I really realized that something dangerous actually was going on was maybe
13:32: November last year, November 23, end of last year.
13:41: We had a brother who was a member of our church for many years, and he moved to America and joined a
13:49: Reformed Baptist church in Texas. And shortly after that, he began to send me strange messages, first telling me, well, that he wasn't sure if the
14:04: Holocaust really happened, and then he would send a video of Hitler telling me, well, every
14:11: Christian needs to agree with what Hitler says in this video. And then I watched the video, and I thought, well, no,
14:17: I do not agree, because what Hitler is saying here, there might be some truth to it.
14:23: So Hitler maybe saw some dangerous developments, liberalism and feminism, something like that.
14:32: But everything Hitler says was based on an anti -Christian ideology. It was based on German -ness.
14:40: So it was not based on the Bible. It was not based on Christianity. So it is an anti -Christian ideology, and that was even clear in this video this brother sent me.
14:53: And then finally, when I finally had enough, was when he sent me this meme that I then also forwarded to Doug Wilson and James White.
15:02: And this was a nice drawing, probably set in the 1950s, a mother, beautiful mother and beautiful daughter.
15:11: They were baking a cake or something in the kitchen. And the daughter asked the mother, mommy, what is the
15:18: Holocaust? And the mother replies, oh, that was the one time the Jews had to do manual labor.
15:26: So they claimed it killed them. So I knew that something was seriously wrong.
15:36: And this brother never had those ideas when he was at my church. So I knew there has to be some influence from this new church.
15:49: And in fact, just a few weeks ago, I had a Zoom meeting with this brother and his new pastor from Texas.
16:00: And we discussed these things. And this brother would say things like, now he doesn't believe anymore that the
16:12: Holocaust really took place. He believes those concentration camps, there were no death camps.
16:19: Those were just normal measures of war, like the U .S. had concentration camps for Germans and Japanese.
16:28: So it was just a war measure to make sure that those people would not turn against you.
16:35: And they were not death camps. They were just labor camps. So the Holocaust, as we know it, never happened.
16:44: And then I confronted him and said, you know, OK, let's pretend that's true.
16:50: Still, this meme you sent, I don't think that's funny. But even because even within your frame, even within the frame of this meme, you are saying that the
17:02: Jews were deported and were basically enslaved in those labor camps.
17:09: And I'm sure there was a lot of suffering. So even within that frame,
17:15: I don't think that's funny. I don't think it's funny to make fun of the suffering of other people.
17:21: And he would then say, well, yeah, you know, but I believe the Jews actually belong into concentration camps.
17:28: OK, all Jews, yeah, all Jews belong into concentration camps. Why is that?
17:34: Well, because they all don't work honestly. They don't do honest labor.
17:40: They basically rob us of our money. And I asked him, well, how do you know that?
17:45: I mean, you know, if all of what you're saying is wrong, I don't want to be in your shoes when
17:52: I stand before God. You have to answer for that. So how can you be so sure that this is true? Because if it's not true, it's really a heinous sin you're committing, claiming all those things.
18:04: Yeah, I mean, Paul also says that the Cretans are liars.
18:11: And you know, and what is the English word? No, they are not really working, right?
18:20: So yeah, that's true. Paul says that. But the
18:25: Bible doesn't say that about Jews. And even when Paul talks about this, what is his solution?
18:32: All Cretans to the concentration camps? No, teach them how to live godly lives.
18:40: So and during all this conversation, the new pastor was there.
18:46: And he wouldn't really say much. Just in the end, he would say, well, to this brother, well,
18:54: I think you would probably not say that the women and the children belong to concentration camps.
19:01: Well, and he would then say, well, yeah, maybe not the children. So I was not just shocked by what this brother said, but even by the reaction of his new pastor.
19:13: And this is a well -known pastor. He has a huge ministry. And you know, listening to all of this, and the only thing you have to say is, well, maybe not women and children.
19:29: Yeah, so I know that this runs deep in,
19:35: I believe, many churches. They actually are proud to say that they are many, many, to say that they have billionaires backing them up and so on.
19:49: So it has become a huge movement. And I believe it is very dangerous.
19:55: And it starts with a denial of the Holocaust. It starts with a hatred for the
20:01: Jews. The Jews are basically behind everything, everything evil, that is.
20:08: And one of the, well, it's not really funny, right? But if it was funny, maybe one of the most funny things, they would always revert back to the porn industry.
20:19: But the porn industry is owned by Jews. And, you know, it seems to be true that some of those websites are owned by Jews.
20:30: It seems even by a rabbi. But for me, thinking hopefully biblically, this proves that those
20:39: Jews are in Adam, that they are fallen men who need to repent, who need to hear the gospel and be saved, believe in Christ.
20:49: But for those guys, it seems that Jewishness, being a
20:54: Jew, is actually something especially evil.
21:02: And then there is this narrative that, you know, it's basically, they call it the post -war consensus.
21:11: So everything you think you know about the Jews, about World War II, about the
21:16: Nazis, about Churchill and the Allies and so on, everything is basically a lie.
21:22: So the Nazis and Hitler, they weren't the bad guys.
21:30: They were basically just trying to defend their people, their country, because they have been treated very ill after World War I.
21:40: And it was actually Churchill who wanted the war. Hitler always tried to make peace, but Churchill was the one who wanted the war.
21:49: And the Allies and then also the Soviets, they were really the bad guys.
21:55: And they lied about the concentration camps. They made this up to demonize the
22:01: Nazis. And behind all of this are the Jews, once again.
22:08: And it was the Jews who declared first war on Germany. Jews who said they wanted to destroy the
22:15: Germans. And my biggest concerns with all of this is,
22:22: I'm not so much concerned about some historical facts. Do I believe it is possible that not everything we know about World War II is actually exactly how it happened?
22:34: I believe that's possible. I don't think that everything is exactly the opposite, like those guys want to make it.
22:44: But it is possible that not everything is completely true. But that's not my biggest concern.
22:50: My biggest concern is not that someone wants to question a historic narrative. My biggest concern is what is actually behind this.
22:59: Behind this is a hatred for Jews, maybe even some further racism. Behind this is basically calling good evil and evil good.
23:11: And it's no longer based on the Bible. Many of those guys who are now saying all this stuff, especially on Twitter, on X, that's where most of that takes place, and then in some podcasts and so on.
23:26: Many of those guys a year ago, or maybe one and a half years ago, I actually liked listening to them, because they were preaching the
23:34: Bible. But something has happened. The Bible is not really the foundation for them anymore.
23:41: It's now seeing that we have been lied to. It's the big lie of this post -war consensus.
23:49: And that's actually the new shibboleth. So you have to really see that.
23:55: If you don't understand that, then you cannot understand the world and what's happening and how we can actually fight all of this.
24:04: And so if you oppose them, they will be very many of them.
24:10: It's not completely homogenous. If I just say they, of course there are exceptions, but I'm speaking generally.
24:17: They will often be very aggressive and very disrespectful. So James White, Doug Wilson, they've been...
24:30: So those guys used to look up to those men. But now they are traitors. Now they are boomers.
24:37: They are completely sold out to this post -war consensus. They grew up in a generation that cannot really see through those lies.
24:49: And so their time now is over. And new men need to stand up and lead the
24:56: Christian, this new way of, well, basically anti -Semitism and unbiblical thoughts and reasoning.
25:05: But there's more to say, but maybe as an introduction to the issue.
25:13: Yeah, well, we will go to our first commercial break. And if anybody wants to join us, once again, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,
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37:31: Let's see here, we have a listener already, Cord in Middlebury, Vermont.
37:40: Cord wants to know, are you going to inform us of any of the specific names of individuals who are promoting this, and if not, why not?
37:58: Well, we had a discussion about this before the show, actually. Yeah, we discussed it before the show, if that's even something we should do.
38:08: Yes, so I can name names, I'm not afraid to name names, even though there might be some backlash, but well,
38:18: I'm here in Frankfurt, so I'm far enough away. So one name that is,
38:28: I believe, very important in this is Corey Mayler. He claims to be a
38:36: Christian. I don't know exactly what his current status is regarding church and so on, but he has the
38:47: Stone Choir podcast together with another guy whose name has escaped me, but Corey Mayler is the main guy there.
38:56: The Stone Choir podcast, they are listened to by tens of thousands. Corey Mayler, if you look on his
39:08: Twitter account, this is some of the most racist stuff
39:14: I've ever seen. I appreciate the freedom of speech you have in America, but if I look at what he's posting,
39:25: I'm sometimes thinking, well, maybe the German way isn't too bad, so where you cannot say everything, where there are some things that are actually illegal to say, and I think
39:37: Corey Mayler is certainly bordering where it maybe should be illegal.
39:47: I think it was him who said that James White has apostatized now because he doesn't follow his path.
39:59: I remember especially one of his posts, but this is not something special.
40:05: That's what most of his posts are like. There was one post, he was talking about Play -Doh.
40:11: They know you have different colors of Play -Doh, but if you mix them all together, what you get is something that looks like poop.
40:20: He made the application to interracial marriage and interracial children. So that's the kind of evil and real racism that Corey Mayler is supporting.
40:36: Many of those brothers who follow this path, they have been introduced to this other perspective on the three -hour -long episode where they talk about all of this and basically say that the
41:05: Germans were not the bad guys. They were actually the good guys and the allies, and especially
41:11: Churchill. Those were all the bad guys, and they repeat basically all the
41:18: Nazi propaganda to have explanations, why there were no death camps, why
41:26: Cyclone B was used, and so on and so forth. They have explanations for everything, and that's what many actually listen to and then become convinced that actually the
41:40: Nazis weren't so bad, and the Jews are actually the bad guys, and then, of course, also the allies who fought the
41:47: Nazis and the Soviet. So Corey Mayler is one key figure here.
41:55: Even though I know, at least from what they tell me, that some of the pastors who are also part of this movement reject what
42:04: Corey Mayler says, at least some of what he says. They would say, well, some things he says are really racist and are really evil.
42:13: For what reason? They are not willing, it seems, to actually name his name and actually openly say that this is evil.
42:30: They are sometimes quoted or retweeted, I think is the word.
42:42: They don't give the impression that anything with Corey Mayler is really evil, really problematic.
42:50: So even though not everyone might share everything that Corey Mayler says, he is a key figure.
42:58: I know one pastor who said, well, many things he said are foolish, are racist, are sinful, but on the historic facts, so no
43:08: Holocaust and so on, they would be very good. So this is basically giving the historic background.
43:19: And this Corey Mayler is an excommunicated Lutheran, is he not? Yeah, I'm not completely sure about this.
43:28: I've heard that, that he is an excommunicated Lutheran, but I'm not completely sure if that's true.
43:34: It might be true. I heard something like that, but I haven't verified it.
43:42: And I don't know if he's in any church right now, I don't know. So another key figure, which is from another angle, but he is also retweeted by Corey Mayler and so on.
43:59: So this is all interlinked, would be Stephen Wolfe with his book,
44:05: Christian Nationalism. And I am a Christian nationalist, but not the kind Stephen Wolfe is.
44:14: So maybe to give a bit better understanding. So we already talked about this post -World
44:20: War consensus. The Nazis were evil, the Allies were good. And so why is that even relevant today?
44:29: Well, they say it's relevant because this is our founding myth. The US, probably other
44:38: Western nations, are founded on this post -World War consensus. And that's why we are in the condition we are in right now.
44:47: So the worst thing that can be is to be a Nazi, is to be a Hitler.
44:52: So you have to be a liberal, you have to have open borders, you have to welcome everyone.
44:59: Otherwise you would be a Nazi, you would be a racist. And so they track everything bad we see today in our society.
45:09: And by the way, where we probably agree on. So we agree on how we assess our current situation, our current politics, and just the entire culture and society.
45:25: But they track this back to this post -World War consensus. And that's why they are so ambitious to convince everyone of this
45:36: World War consensus, because they believe if this lie falls, then the way is taken to a
45:44: Christian nation, to being a Christian nation again. This includes going against the
45:51: Jews, who are way too powerful, and going against the
45:57: Muslims. And again, I agree that there is a
46:04: Muslim issue. You have to think about how to solve this. But I won't probably solve it the way they think it should be solved.
46:14: So all of this has something to do with Christian nationalism, becoming a Christian nation again.
46:20: And in order to do that, you have to destroy this post -War consensus. Okay, we have another listener with a question for you in Gretna, Louisiana.
46:33: Brooke. And Brooke says, Can you clarify your opinions about how an opposition to Winston Churchill is connected to this ideology?
46:48: I believe that there may be very legitimate reasons to be extremely critical of Winston Churchill and his role in England during World War II, without necessarily equating one or connecting one to the hellish ideology of neo -Nazism.
47:09: Yes, absolutely. I agree. And you know, that's one thing
47:16: I believe those brothers don't see clearly.
47:22: It seems that they believe everyone who doesn't agree with them is basically a liberal or is maybe just deceived, is a deceived boomer.
47:33: But I agree. I don't think that it was just black and white during World War II or even leading up to World War II.
47:42: I think just in general, we know that from our time, you know, it's our own experience.
47:49: Things are often not black and white. Things are more complicated. And I believe there can be legitimate concerns about what
47:58: Churchill did, how he behaved. And so my biggest issue is not that you question some historic narratives or see things a little different.
48:13: And I believe you can have those doubts about Churchill without being a
48:21: Nazi or whatever that is forming there right now.
48:27: But they would say that this is an essential part of understanding this post -war consensus, that Hitler wanted peace and Churchill was the aggressor.
48:41: He wanted war. And again, there might be some truth to it.
48:48: But I don't believe that this is the vital thing to understand in order to understand the world and to know how to live in this world as Christians, because I believe we have the
49:00: Bible, and the Bible actually is sufficient to discern these things. And you don't have to understand everything about history and about Churchill and Hitler and all the dynamics there to be freed from those lies and actually now finally be able to see things for what they are and finally be able to have a
49:20: Christian nation again. I believe a Christian nation requires repentance. I don't believe we are in the situation we are in and it is a bad situation.
49:30: I don't believe we're in there just because of some post -war consensus. I believe we're in there as a judgment of God.
49:37: And the way out is through preaching the gospel and through repentance and through faith in Christ.
49:44: I think that's how you build a Christian nation. And that is the opposite to what Stephen Wolfe thinks, but that's my approach.
49:52: So yes, you can have different opinions on Churchill and other historic stuff, but those are the guys.
50:02: It's them who say you have to believe this to be able to actually understand this world and make it a
50:09: Christian, make America a Christian nation again. Now, you said that Doug Wilson has been attacked by these
50:20: Nazi sympathizers. He is the founder of Canon Press, which published
50:30: Stephen Wolfe's book. Has there been any division between the two of them as a result of this?
50:40: Not yet. Yes, Doug Wilson has been attacked. There are things like they call him a traitor.
50:47: Again, if I say they, yeah, it's not everyone. But he has been called a traitor. Someone, maybe it was even
50:54: Corey Mailer, I'm not sure, said Moscow needs to be destroyed. So they are very aggressive if you don't agree with them on everything.
51:03: And Doug Wilson, he is very, very clearly against anti -Semitism.
51:11: He had several podcasts. He wrote a book about it, American Milk and Honey. That's the book about anti -Semitism.
51:18: So he sees these issues and he goes against them. And so he's considered a traitor, someone who now needs to go, whose time is over.
51:28: The only thing I thought from Doug regarding Stephen Wolfe lately was that he said, well, he believed
51:34: Stephen Wolfe is having too much fun. Too much sun as in the sun rays are poisoning his brain.
51:43: No, too much fun. So, yeah, it's
51:50: Doug Wilson. He's always very funny in the way he phrases things.
51:58: But, yeah, I think that is a bigger issue.
52:04: And to be honest, I would be happy if Canon Press would consider taking some steps here.
52:12: And by the way, I've got to be honest with you, my stomach is churning right now. I'm not exaggerating or using a hyperbole.
52:19: This is so sickening to hear because this is satanic.
52:26: This is not Brethren having disagreements over eschatology or something.
52:32: No, this is satanic. This is pure evil. And I'm almost speechless.
52:40: But anyway, we have to go to our midway break right now. And once again, if anybody has a question, please submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
52:49: Give us your first name at least. City and state of residence and country of residence if you live outside the USA.
52:55: Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Please be patient with us. The middle break is always a little longer than the other breaks in the show because Grace Life Radio 90 .1
53:06: FM in Lake City, Florida is required by the FCC to use the middle break to localize geographically
53:15: Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida, where the radio station is located. And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things, while we, on the other hand, simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.
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01:00:13: But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.
01:00:26: Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.
01:00:34: In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt
01:00:39: God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.
01:00:45: He sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.
01:00:53: That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a Savior who died for sinners, and that God forgives all who come to Him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.
01:01:05: I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the
01:01:12: Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.
01:01:21: That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.
01:01:31: That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.
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01:03:19: I'm Pastor Keith Allen of Limbrook Baptist Church, a
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01:04:47: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit limbrookbaptist .org.
01:04:54: That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Limbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
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01:05:12: Lord's blessing and knowledge of himself. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
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01:07:25: Before I return to my discussion with Tobias Riemenschneider on the rise of anti -Semitism and adoration for Hitler and the
01:07:36: Nazis in the 21st century, even among professing Christians and even among professing
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01:10:46: Last but not least, if you're not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like the
01:10:56: Evangelical Reformed Baptist Church in Frankfurt, Germany, no matter where you live on the planet earth,
01:11:03: I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in our audience all over the planet earth find churches that are biblically faithful, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live.
01:11:18: That may be you too, so if you are without a biblically faithful church home, no matter where you live, please send me an email to chrisorensen at gmail .com,
01:11:27: and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Tobias Riemenschneider on the rise of antisemitism and adoration or admiration for Adolf Hitler and the
01:11:42: Nazis. That's chrisorensen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least. City and state and country of residence if you live outside the
01:11:51: USA. We have Kyle in Leawood, Kansas, who has a question for you,
01:12:00: Tobias. Kyle said, first of all,
01:12:05: I want to make sure that no one in your audience misunderstands me. I think, even though that Martin Luther should be revered as a great hero of Christian history, he did sin in the excesses in his speech toward the end of his life when he began to vilify the
01:12:27: Jews because they rejected the gospel. So please do not think that I am softening the sin of the direction that Martin Luther took.
01:12:38: However, from my understanding, Martin Luther was opposing the
01:12:44: Jews on theological and doctrinal levels, never according to an ethnicity that had intrinsically bad or heretical qualities.
01:12:59: So therefore, I'm wondering if these new admirers of Hitler are trying to make the claim that Jews intrinsically, according to their physical nature as an ethnic group, are guilty of all of these bad qualities that are to be avoided, or are they speaking on terms of ideology and theology of Jewish people?
01:13:29: Yeah, that's a good question, and I agree that with Luther, it was for theological reasons.
01:13:36: You know, earlier in his life, Luther tried to reach out to the Jews, which was basically something unheard of.
01:13:43: No one really had done that before. Right, and he was optimistic about their mass conversion at one point.
01:13:51: Yeah, he wanted them to be safe, and when he saw how hard -necked—is that a word?
01:13:57: Hard -necked? Stiff -necked. Stiff -necked they were, and how much they hated
01:14:05: Christ, he became bitter towards the Jews. And bitterness is never something good, right?
01:14:12: It leads to bad things. So I agree there. You know,
01:14:18: I'm not entirely sure how everyone would view this from this movement. It seems that it's not just for theological reasons.
01:14:30: I believe many of them would probably say that one of the roots, maybe the root of the problem, is the
01:14:41: Jewish religion. And I agree that the Jewish religion today is an anti -Christian religion.
01:14:49: I don't think there can be any doubt about that. And it's also opposed to the
01:14:56: Hebrew Scriptures. Absolutely, yeah. Judaism today is not the
01:15:01: Judaism of the Bible. It has actually perverted the biblical teaching, and I believe you can see that even with Jesus.
01:15:11: You know, when Jesus goes against the sayings of the elders and the traditions of the elders,
01:15:18: I believe he is addressing the Talmud that was beginning to form in his days.
01:15:23: Well, it actually had begun to form probably 200 years before Jesus came. And we have to understand that Judaism today is not biblical
01:15:33: Judaism, but it's Talmudic Judaism. And the Talmud is the teachings of the elders, which actually—well, as Jesus said himself, it's making invalid the
01:15:45: Word of God. So I don't believe Judaism today is in any way a
01:15:51: God -pleasing religion. I believe it is an anti -Christian and unbiblical religion. And maybe some of them would argue, well, this is where actually all the problems stem from.
01:16:03: But you don't hear that very often. And for example, you know, I talked about this three -hour podcast,
01:16:10: Cori Mela with the Stone Choir podcasted. They don't differentiate. They also talk about Jews who are explicitly not practicing
01:16:19: Jews, who don't believe in Judaism. And it seems that they see a problem in being a
01:16:29: Jew, as in being an ethnic Jew. I can't speak for everyone.
01:16:35: I think I see both. I think I see some who want, especially maybe more the pastors, who want to make the connection to the religion, and others, maybe someone like Stone Choir, don't really seem to care about that too much, but seem to speak more from an ethnicity standpoint.
01:16:55: Yeah, this is absolutely absurd, because it is very clear from both the
01:17:05: Old and New Testaments that ethnicity meant nothing. Even the prohibitions to intermarry were always about religion, ideology.
01:17:19: They had nothing to do with ethnicity. In fact, as most of us know, the famous story when
01:17:28: Moses's sister rebuked him for marrying an
01:17:35: Ethiopian. She was chastised by God by being struck white with leprosy.
01:17:43: And then we have in the New Covenant the walls of division coming down.
01:17:53: There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that people, according to any nationality or ethnicity, have anything intrinsically different from any other people group.
01:18:12: And the elect are called out from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
01:18:20: So, this is just drivel. This is just stuff that a person with a cursory knowledge of the
01:18:27: Bible knows. Yes, exactly. And that's what I find so amazing, disturbing maybe.
01:18:36: Those were guys who used the Bible. And now it seems the Bible only knows two races.
01:18:43: Of course, it knows that there are people and so on, sure. But spiritually, there are only two races, the race that is in Adam and the race that is in Christ.
01:18:55: And the Bible says that there are no longer
01:19:00: Jew and Gentile, right? Jew and Greek and so on. Those differences do no longer matter.
01:19:08: What really matters is whether you are in Christ, then you're my brother, or whether you are outside of Christ and still in Adam, and then you need to be saved.
01:19:16: And maybe you have to be fought in some circumstances, but maybe one thing that came to mind and that was connected to this.
01:19:27: The first question was, can I name names? And maybe I wasn't. I named two names, but maybe the question is more, who are the pastors?
01:19:37: Because I believe many would probably want to know who are the pastors. I might be listening to and haven't realized.
01:19:43: So, I'll tell one more incident, and there will also be a few names in there. Eric Conn is one of those pastors.
01:19:53: He recently posted a quote by Aristotle, and it was something to the extent like, in order to have a functioning democracy, we need to have some sort of ethnic unity.
01:20:11: So, only if there is the same ethnicity can there be a functioning democracy.
01:20:16: And, of course, the democracies Aristotle was talking about are completely different from our modern democracies.
01:20:23: Those were little towns, basically. And he used that.
01:20:32: And, of course, I was wondering, okay, why do we have to use Aristotle now?
01:20:37: Well, because there's nothing in the Bible that could be quoted to make this claim.
01:20:45: And so, you know, some of them, it seems, want to go into the direction, well, to be a Christian nation and a real functioning democracy, we probably have to be a white
01:20:55: America. And I don't see that. I don't see that's how you can substantiate it in the
01:21:00: Bible. I've heard one of those pastors, it was quoted to me. I didn't hear him personally, but it was quoted to me that he said, well,
01:21:07: I'm really, or maybe he didn't even said that publicly, I don't remember. But he said, well,
01:21:12: I'm really happy if I see a white family. Well, why would a pastor say that?
01:21:19: Because he's unregenerate. Because he's unregenerate. Or maybe. So, you know, why would you be happy to see a white, godless, wicked family?
01:21:31: Why would you not be happy to see a black, saved family, brothers and sisters?
01:21:37: So why this black and white stuff? Why this Jew and stuff and so on? I don't really get it. And this tweet by Eric Kohn, which
01:21:48: I believe was very foolish. It was defended by some other pastors.
01:21:54: And to give you two or three more names, it's also Brian Servais, who, of course, is a partner of Eric Kohn.
01:22:03: And it's Joel Webben, maybe the most well -known one. And then you could probably also name
01:22:09: Andrew Isker. So those are basically the guys who formed this new movement.
01:22:17: And I'm not saying that every one of them believes everything we talked about. I don't think that's the case.
01:22:24: But at the very least, what they are doing is they are not really going against this. They are not speaking against this.
01:22:32: They are very, very quick, and rightly so, to preach against sins from the left.
01:22:40: And they name names and so on. But anything that comes from the right, well, they don't really want to go against that.
01:22:48: And the reasoning behind this, like Joel Webben put it, is, well, there are many young men who are angry, and rightly so, because in our society, they have been hated and despised from birth.
01:23:01: I believe that is exaggerated. But I know what he means. And those men also need someone who can shepherd them.
01:23:12: And so we don't want to discourage them, just because they are now a little too far on the right.
01:23:18: So we don't really say anything against sins from the right, which
01:23:23: I believe is not shepherding those men. I believe it is dangerous to do this.
01:23:30: So our standard is the Bible. And whether you go to the left or to the right, it doesn't matter.
01:23:41: As soon as it becomes unbiblical, as soon as it becomes sinful, you have to go against that.
01:23:48: You have to preach against that. You have to name names if necessary. And yeah, they don't want to do that, because they believe the real danger is the left.
01:23:57: So we don't want to alienate anyone from the right. And the left is doing their fair share of spewing racial hatred.
01:24:09: And of course, as you just said, there's only two races, those in Adam and those in Christ. Or one could say there's only one race, the human race.
01:24:21: But, you know, we see it every day in the news, these leftist idiots at college campuses spewing their anti -Semitism and so on.
01:24:34: It's just amazing how any Christian can open up their
01:24:40: Bible that they view as inerrant, and the very God -breathed words that have been entrusted to us can open up Ephesians 2, especially verses 11 -22, and come away with any notion that there is something intrinsically superior or inferior about anybody because of their ethnicity.
01:25:16: And it is so clear that the apostle Paul had to rebuke
01:25:22: Peter before siding with Judaizers who did not want to break bread with Gentiles.
01:25:32: It is so clear that this is evil. It's mind -boggling how anybody would not know this, especially a pastor.
01:25:46: Right, right. You know, maybe another thought here. It occurred to me that this is becoming something like a cult.
01:25:57: Because, you know, if you go on Twitter or any other social media, you can distinguish most of these guys because most of them have the same avatar, the same image.
01:26:11: It is a picture of them with a red background, so everything is red, and then they have glowing blue eyes.
01:26:20: And it really looks evil. I don't know why any Christian wanted to present himself on the internet like that, looking evil.
01:26:29: Right. I heard that that was supposed to be an image of Francisco Franco, who was a
01:26:35: Nazi sympathizer. He was in alignment with Hitler.
01:26:42: Yeah, yeah. So, they have this common appearance. They would come to the rescue of any one of them attack, which, of course, is nothing bad of itself.
01:26:57: But then anyone who disagrees will be slandered.
01:27:03: And, you know, he is not relevant anymore. He's just a boomer. They will become very disrespectful.
01:27:09: And this alone, for me, is bad fruit. If you see how disrespectful and aggressive they are against, really, men who have proven to be very valuable for the
01:27:22: Church, like James White or Doug Wilson, I believe you can see bad fruits even in bad behavior.
01:27:31: Yeah, well, if any of these folks who have been mentioned by Tobias Riemenschneider are listening, perhaps we could have a public debate over this.
01:27:45: A part of me doesn't even want to give any credence to this ideology in a debate, but I'm just thinking out loud at the moment.
01:27:59: So, my head is spinning right now. It's just utterly amazing that people could have many things so right about theology—and
01:28:17: I'm just speaking about one or two of the men that you mentioned—but then have this grotesque side of their ideology, which
01:28:28: I'm not candy -coating. I believe it is utterly satanic.
01:28:34: I would have agreed with almost everything some of those men
01:28:40: I mentioned said a year ago. I was very much on their page, but something happened.
01:28:46: Somehow they got off track. And, yeah, it is very sad to see.
01:28:52: It is very—yeah, I believe it is dangerous, and I don't know what happened there, but they left the good path they were on.
01:29:02: And, yeah, this is troubling. Yeah, and where do they—how could they possibly come up with the notion that there was something morally superior about the
01:29:15: Nazis? The Nazis were not only an immoral people because of their hatred for those outside of the invented race that they identified as the
01:29:33: Aryan race—Nordic people—that, in and of itself, is satanic, and their mission to wipe out off the planet
01:29:46: Earth, many people in that category of not being Aryan, so -called.
01:29:52: But even the nature of their immorality itself—Adolf
01:30:02: Hitler is supposed to be some kind of poster boy for morality. There's been pretty convincing and documented evidence of a sexual affair he had with his own niece, which eventually led to her suicide, and some very grotesque sexual behavior on his part that I'm not even going to mention.
01:30:27: And as Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams have very clearly documented in their book,
01:30:35: The Pink Swastika, Homosexuality and the Nazi Party, the Nazis in their early stage were almost entirely comprised of homosexuals.
01:30:48: They met regularly in homosexual taverns to strategize and plot the development of the
01:30:59: Third Reich and so on. This is just mind -boggling how they could be viewed in any way, shape, or form as morally superior.
01:31:11: Right. And I know, for example, from Joel Webb, he wouldn't say they were morally superior.
01:31:20: He said that Adolf Hitler was not the last Christian prince.
01:31:26: He was not just a good guy. But again, even if they don't share these opinions, they at least play with these thoughts.
01:31:36: They know that there are many in their followings and of their followers who believe that.
01:31:42: And if you realize, okay, many who listen to me have those ideas, which
01:31:52: I don't hold to, and I understand that those are evil things, then
01:31:57: I am obligated to really go against this and to make very clear that this is wrong, that this is sinful, and this is what
01:32:07: I'm wondering, why this is not happening. I still want to give those pastors the benefit of the doubt.
01:32:28: I hope that they don't believe all that stuff. But then my question is, why don't you preach against it?
01:32:36: Because you know it is a big problem, and it is a big problem within your own following. So I believe you are obliged to say something against it, and very clearly so.
01:32:47: Name Corry Mailer. I know some of those pastors don't believe everything Corry Mailer says is good.
01:32:53: So why don't name him? Why don't call him out and say that this is actually evil, that he is actually a racist?
01:32:59: So I'm wondering why they are playing with this. Yes, okay, you don't want to lose young men who maybe think that way, but you have to show them that this is wrong.
01:33:11: You have to actually disciple them, actually shepherd them. And that doesn't mean—you know, a good friend, a pastor friend from Canada, I talked to him just a few days ago, and he said, well, those guys are basically like the seeker -sensitive movement.
01:33:27: They don't want to alienate any of their racist young men, right?
01:33:33: But I don't think that's how you can behave. You have to be biblical, and you have to address sin, no matter whether it comes from the left or from the right.
01:33:44: Yeah, well, we have to go to our final break right now, and if you have any intention to submit a question, please do so immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.
01:33:54: Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:34:00: Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away, we'll be right back. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
01:34:13: If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.
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01:35:43: John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the
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01:44:11: We believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This salvation is based upon the sovereign grace of God, was purchased by Christ on the cross, and is received through faith alone, apart from any human merit, works, or ritual.
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01:44:41: Lord's Day, we'd love to have you come and join us in worship. For details, visit lindbrookbaptist .org.
01:44:47: That's l -y -n -brookbaptist .org. This is Pastor Keith Allen of Lindbrook Baptist Church reminding you that by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves.
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01:45:56: Also, allow me to remind you of a prayer request I have for a longtime friend whom
01:46:04: I have known since high school, Gary Wolfe, who is also a former member of the same church where we were both saved in Amityville, Long Island, Calvary Baptist Church.
01:46:21: And my dear brother Gary has stomach cancer, the same illness that took the life of his sister.
01:46:30: And I'm asking you to please pray for Gary, that the Lord would heal him, that the
01:46:36: Lord would guide everyone who is caring for him medically, and that you would give
01:46:45: Gary a spirit of perfect peace in the midst of this terrifying ordeal, that you would even give him joy, and that you would give him the confidence in Christ that he needs to be a vibrant ambassador in the name of Jesus Christ and his gospel to all who he meets in the hospital and elsewhere as he continues this battle.
01:47:18: The last I heard was yesterday that he had to be taken to a hospital on Long Island because of blood clots.
01:47:29: I don't know if that was the result of the chemotherapy he is receiving or not. But please pray for Gary Wolfe, and I will keep you all updated.
01:47:40: Let's see, we have Bradley in Shoreham, Long Island, New York. And Bradley says,
01:47:47: Have you had any interaction personally with some of these people that are in some way, shape, or form either advocating this new movement of anti -Semitism and Adolf Hitler adoration, or at least have been too soft on the issue?
01:48:14: Yeah, so first of all, I will be praying for Gary. Thank you. Yeah, so since I'm here in Germany, and I'm not on Twitter or X, I'm not too much involved in this.
01:48:30: But I told the story in the beginning of the brother who was a member of my church and moved to Texas, and I had personal dealings with his pastor, who is part of this movement.
01:48:47: Again, it's not a homogenous movement and everything, but I would surely count him as part of this movement.
01:48:56: Other than that, I had no personal dealings. I just watched what was happening on social media, what's happening on Twitter, especially.
01:49:07: Since I'm not on Twitter, my co -pastor, who is, has to send me everything.
01:49:14: But I've read quite a few things, and of course, I know what James White thinks, what other pastors think, who had also some personal dealings.
01:49:28: So yeah, with one pastor, I had personal dealings, not with the others. And let's make it clear for our listeners, especially if they just tuned in, that James White is very vociferously and adamantly in opposition to this movement.
01:49:45: Yes, yes. He gets attacked by them a lot, and yeah.
01:49:52: Was there any—and forgive me if I'm not remembering correctly, because I know you did bring this up briefly in the beginning of the show—was there any sign from your former church member now in America and from his pastor that they are reconsidering these things, that they see value in anything that you said in opposition to it, any kind of move in the right direction at all?
01:50:22: So not from this brother. He just, you know,
01:50:28: I just saw this. He also has now this new avatar, this red with the glowing eyes.
01:50:33: So no, I don't think there's any repentance from him. The pastor, his new pastor
01:50:39: I talked to, it seemed that I got him thinking, especially because he was surprised by a few things
01:50:47: I said. It seems that he thought, well, everyone who is not on our side must be, you know, must be somehow influenced by this leftist thinking and the boomer theology, how they call it, which
01:51:03: I believe to be not a good term. It's very disrespectful in and of itself.
01:51:10: But I said a few things that really surprised him. Well, we're actually not too far away with regard to the issues, the problems we see in our society and the goal we want to reach, but the way we want to go there and to get there.
01:51:30: So I think to see that I'm not too far away from him in certain aspects really got him thinking.
01:51:38: And I know that he said one or two things a little clearer. Also with regard to Corey Mahler, again, without naming names, but I knew who he was talking about, but I haven't seen any substantial change.
01:51:55: So I doubt that this is happening. And of course, as you and I discussed in a previous interview that you had,
01:52:03: Nazism is left wing. It's leftism. It's just a different flavor, a different brand of leftism with some distinctives that make them separate from communism.
01:52:18: But it's not like they are 180 degree polar opposites.
01:52:25: Oh, no, no, it is socialism. Yeah, it has this national aspect, but it is still socialism.
01:52:31: And they want a strong state who takes care of everything and they have their own state ideology and you have to believe that, otherwise you're an enemy of the state and be dealt with.
01:52:44: So, yes, it is basically a leftist. It is not, you know, the real right is for personal freedoms and so on.
01:52:52: That's not what the Nazis were about. It was socialism in this national form, but still socialism.
01:53:00: Yeah. For anybody to think that Nazism and freedom belongs in the same sentence, they need medical assistance and definitely conversion and possibly an exorcism.
01:53:16: Because this is just insanity. This is lunacy. Well, I want you to have about four minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding this subject.
01:53:30: Yes. The most important thing, because that is the basis for everything.
01:53:36: Let's take to the Bible. That is our revelation from God. That is the only thing infallible.
01:53:43: History is not infallible. One guy may tell you A and another guy may tell you
01:53:49: B. And we maybe don't know what's really true. Maybe we will never know exactly what happened in all details.
01:53:59: But I don't understand why we're even talking about this, why this is the new shibboleth, why you have to believe the one way or the other way with regard to historical events.
01:54:11: I'm not saying it's not important, but why should we base anything upon that?
01:54:17: It is the Bible that is the inspired word of God. And let's take to the Bible. Let's not revert to any other books about history or to Aristotle or whatsoever.
01:54:28: Let's stay firm on the Bible. And if you do that, I believe you will be safe from many errors.
01:54:37: I don't think you can become an anti -Semite if you believe the Bible. I believe you can be critical about the
01:54:44: Jews if you believe the Bible, but you can't have any form of hatred. But you should have, like Paul says in Romans 9, you should love the
01:54:53: Jews. You should be willing to die for them if they could be saved, even to be accursed, away from Christ.
01:55:02: And that's true for everyone. We should love our neighbor and try to save them.
01:55:09: So I believe that is most important. To guard yourself against wrong teaching and false teachers, stand firm on the word of God, and that will actually guide you the right way.
01:55:24: And you will be able to understand the world today, even though you are not completely sure what happened 80 years ago.
01:55:32: The Bible will be that you can understand the world, you can understand what's happening today, and that you know what will be the solution to this.
01:55:41: And it's not some revisionist history or some admiration from the
01:55:47: Nazis or whatsoever or blaming the Jews for everything. No, it's actually evangelizing, preaching the gospel, preaching the word of God, and repent.
01:55:58: If we do that, if we repent, I believe then God will give us a Christian nation again. Then God will, his blessing will come back.
01:56:06: And that's the most important thing, I believe, to guard yourself from false teaching by standing firm on the word of God.
01:56:14: Amen. And by the way, let me highly recommend a couple of books. Well, actually, it's one book that is available in two different titles.
01:56:23: Baruch Mo 'oz, who is an Israeli, he wrote a book titled
01:56:32: Judaism is Not Jewish, a friendly critique of the
01:56:37: Messianic movement, in which he is being very critical of extra -biblical
01:56:47: Judaism, you know, the religion that is not truly based in the
01:56:53: Hebrew Scriptures, but based on rabbinical writings. That is a way of being critical, rightly, of the flaws and errors and even heresies of Judaism without in any way hating
01:57:12: Jews. As I said, the author is an Israeli and a convert to Christianity and specifically
01:57:22: Reform Baptist theology. That book was later retitled
01:57:27: Come, Let Us Reason Together, The Unity of Jews and Gentiles in the
01:57:33: Church. But anyway, I just thought I'd throw that out there. And I also want to remind our listeners, if you want more information about the
01:57:42: Evangelical Reform Baptist Church of Frankfurt, Germany, go to erb -frankfurt .de,
01:57:50: erb -frankfurt .de. For more details on the
01:57:55: Frankfurt Declaration written by my guest, go to frankfurtdeclaration .com,
01:58:01: frankfurtdeclaration .com. And to purchase the book written by my guest,
01:58:12: Tobias Riebenschneider, Resisting Tyranny, A Christian Response to Government Overreach, go to ezrapress .ca.
01:58:24: ezrapress .ca. Tobias, it has been an absolute joy to have you on the program.
01:58:30: I look forward to your frequent returns to Iron Trouble and Zion Radio, dear brother. Yes, thank you so much for having me on again.
01:58:37: And I want you to all have a blessed and safe and happy weekend and a Christ -honoring
01:58:42: Lord's Day. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater