Dead Men Walking Podcast: Coming out of The Ramp School Of Ministry with Charity Nelms

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00:11

Hey, there it is, wait for it, always wait for it. All right, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast, guys.

00:19

Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing with a friend. Thanks for commenting, reposting, all that good stuff on social media that you do for us.

00:26

You can follow us at dmwpodcast .com, that's the website, that's where you get the merch. And then, of course, you can find us everywhere on social media at deadmenwalkingpodcast.

00:36

Before we get into it, I do want to let you guys know that this episode is brought to you by Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.

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They have got a Rice Lecture Series, they're out of Detroit, but they have a Rice Lecture Series featuring

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Joel Beek. I met him down at G3, he's a great fella, absolutely love him.

00:53

He is with the Puritan Reform Theological Seminary, and they're going to be having a Rice Lecture Series that's free, you guys, free.

01:00

You don't pay anything in Allen Park, Michigan. So if you're a listener that is close to Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, you want to make the trip up to Allen Park, that's at March 18th, it starts at 8 a .m.

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in the morning. There's still some seats available, we only have a few more days until the event on March 18th.

01:16

You can go to dbts .edu forward slash rice, that's dbts .edu

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forward slash rice. We're going to link that up in the show links for you as well, you can click on it, check it out.

01:28

I'll be there, come stop by and say hi. So we got the business out of the way, and if you're watching on YouTube or anywhere else, you see someone sitting across from me, and it isn't

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Jason. He had some work stuff take him away again, and we have the lovely Charity Nelms.

01:43

How are you, Charity? Hey, it's good to be here, I'm excited. Full disclosure, this episode could get a little kooky because she is my baby sister.

01:50

I'm not a baby anymore. My little sister. That's right. Yes, you're not a baby anymore, but she's going to be talking to us with all kinds of cool stuff tonight.

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We're going to be talking about her going to the RAMP, which is a ministry school, kind of how she came through that, and what she took out of it, and where she's at now.

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We might even talk about some other stuff that she does. She flies through the air with the greatest of ease.

02:16

We'll get into that. What else are we going to talk about? I feel like you have a plan for this, but just knowing us,

02:22

I feel like we're just going to flow with the river tonight. Let's do it. I feel like it's going to be kind of crazy. I do like doing it that way, too.

02:29

You know me. Yeah. Why don't you tell everyone, give us a one or two minute bio of who you are and what you're about.

02:35

Yeah, well, I am Greg's much younger and more beautiful sister. I got all of the good genes, clearly.

02:44

No, I'm Greg's younger sister. What's wrong with you people? There's a lot, trust me.

02:53

Some of it I can't disclose on this podcast, but I'm Greg's younger sister. I am a part -time flight attendant, full -time fitness coach, and avid listener of the podcast.

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This is my first time here, and I'm honestly, even though I'm your sister, I'm genuinely honored to be here, and I'm really excited.

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It's cool to be able to watch you in your element, and I listen to every episode. Look at that.

03:17

Biggest fan, all right. Yeah, so I mean, I could write a whole column about this and give you a full critique if you'd like.

03:23

Well, since you're so good at social media and we aren't, how about you just post something on your huge following on social media?

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That I will do. I will fully use your influence. Got it. Done. I'm just kidding.

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I will be posting it. So yeah, we got that out of the way, well, not out of the way, but we know a little bit more about you.

03:41

Let's do some newsy news, and you're familiar with it. We're going to do a little news. You can comment on it. I got two news stories for you.

03:47

Let's go. News, the news, the newsy, newsy news, the news, the news, the newsy, newsy, news, news.

03:56

We got some news. Ah, yes. The Tom Askew approved newsy news.

04:02

So this first story is Elevation Church Pastor Stephen Furtick under fire for endorsing teen sons' explicit music.

04:10

Elevation Church founder and senior pastor Stephen Furtick and his wife, Holly, recently came under fire online for supporting their teenage sons' music, which includes references to sex, guns, and access of money.

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Last week, 16 -year -old Elisha Furtick, a hip -hop artist, I watched some of the video, he is not a hip -hop artist, whose stage name is

04:28

Dot the Dash, released his first album under Teen Machine. Oh, it's named Teen Machine, excuse me.

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The album begins with a 30 -second introduction that states the songs are a genuine reflection of some dimension of the author's experience or personality, while also noting that most of the lyrical content reflects experiences that are fictitious, exaggerated, tongue -in -cheek, and otherwise wildly inaccurate.

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Okay. Yeah, so that's kind of two -faced right there. But anyway, it goes on, he's talking about oral sex and drinking

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Hennessy and his bro keeping a gun and running from the police. And Stephen Furtick, who's his father, came out and so did his mother on Instagram and said, we are so proud of him.

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It's such a great song, he's doing what he should be doing with music, and a lot of people got upset about that because they said, hey, aren't you a pastor?

05:16

Shouldn't you have a family that represents Christ properly? I don't know, what do you think? Should a pastor be out there promoting his son's rap album?

05:24

Well, I think that you have to keep being a pastor and being a parent kind of separate in that instance, but also, let's be real,

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PKs, if you don't know what PK means, pastors' kids, are kind of wild. They have a, not all of them, but they have a notorious kind of track record for being kind of wild.

05:44

Yeah, I don't know, I mean, I think, as a parent, you can be supportive of your kid but not necessarily like what they're doing or agree with it, and you can express that, but I think coming out publicly as a pastor, you do have a duty to kind of represent the word as best you can.

06:02

I mean, we all do as Christians, but. Sure. I would also like to ask, though, like, I mean, it's, you know, the title of the, and I'm sure there's partially clickbait in that article, but it's talking about, you said, sex, drugs, and guns.

06:17

Guns and drinking Hennessy. Well, here's my question, though, if it, like, what is the song about?

06:23

I mean, is this man married, and it's a beautiful, like, representation of Song of Solomon? Like, owning a gun is okay, but if it's, like, vulgar and all of that.

06:32

No, it's basically graphic, violent, and kind of imitating the world, the rap scene. I think that's why people are getting upset about it, because it doesn't reflect anything

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Christ -like, but yet you have a pastor and a pastor's wife saying, oh, we're fully on board with this, and everyone knows how we feel on this podcast about Stephen Furtick.

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We've railed against him quite a lot, but it's just another thing that you just go, oh, man, that's just too bad, because it's such a poor representation of who

06:58

Christ is to an unbelieving world, I think, too. And I don't really know Stephen Furtick that well, like,

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I don't follow him or know what he preaches, but that would make me question, well, maybe he's just not actually preaching about those things or reading the

07:10

Word about those things if he's totally okay with it. Yeah. That gives a clear indication as to where his walk is or where, how far he jumps into the

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Word, you know what I mean? I think it's telling, too, that when you see the prerequisites in the

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New Testament for what a pastor needs to have, one of them is a family in order, an orderly family, meaning he understands how to balance both his work life and his personal life.

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And going back to what you said earlier, that's why we have so many PK kids that flip out, because maybe the gentleman who calls himself a pastor that went into ministry was lopsided, what, you know, sometimes maybe too focused on the ministry, didn't focus enough to being a father in his home, and that's bad.

07:52

Dedicating too much time to the church when you have a family is a bad thing, not dedicating enough time.

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So it's this weird thing where even in the prerequisites in the New Testament, it kind of nips it in the bud and says, hey, you have to be a man of one wife, you have to have an orderly family and be, you know, respectable in your household.

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And it's kind of saying, yeah, we want to see well -rounded, moderation, holy living, not perfect, no one's perfect, right?

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Pastors aren't perfect. We get that. But I just find it very telling that we have so many pastors that just kind of skip over those prerequisites.

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And then they wonder, well, why am I getting all kinds of trouble when my kids rebel, or when I'm getting blowback for promoting my kid's rap album?

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And it's like, well, it's not biblical. Yeah, well, I wonder, you know, what the line is too of like, obviously having a family in order, because if I'm being really honest,

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I think if we use that as a prerequisite of having your family in order, 75 % of pastors probably would be fired.

08:51

Yeah. Realistically. And where is the line of having your family in order, but then also, you know, his son is his own person and can make his own decisions.

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And he might go, I mean, we've probably had our own experiences where we've gone against things we were taught, you know, and have to come all the way back around the, you know what

09:12

I mean? Come all the way back around. So what's the line for him? I think most scholars, they say, usually it means it's still living in the household, age of adolescence, things like that.

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Obviously, when someone becomes their own adult, you know, John Piper's struggling with this right now. His son

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Abraham has stepped away from the faith, renounced it, deconstructed, as they said.

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And now not only deconstructing, but rallying hard against his father and Christianity.

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But he's also 25 years old. Yeah. And he's allowed to make his own decisions. So I think it's different.

09:45

But this is kind of going above and beyond that. I mean, he's out there promoting an album that is so...

09:52

Yeah, the promotion of it is absolutely... I don't like it. No. If I was in that congregation, then I would be questioning, okay, exactly who am

09:58

I following that has some type of covering over me, you know? And is this really wise for me to sit under this person?

10:06

Well, I would hope you would have that discernment. It's a no for me, Alex. And for those reasons, I'm out.

10:12

We'll not be investing. The Shark Tank episode. Oh, yes. I watched it before I came over. Sometimes I do get caught up into those on YouTube.

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It'll be like a six -minute clip. And it's like, why didn't they invest? And the clickbait gets me. And then I just end up down a rabbit hole of watching

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Mark Cuban yell at people and, you know, Mr. Nice wanting royalties. And is it

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Mr. Nice? Mr. Wonderful. Sorry. That's who I'd do a deal with. All he cares about is money. I'm in.

10:38

Let's do it. Right? Yeah. You're there to make money. Yeah. No, absolutely. I don't care if you like me as a person.

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Can we make money from this? Well, he's smart because he is about reoccurring in perpetuity royalties.

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That is the way you make money in the United States and most globally too. Also, just a side note. I offered our dad a royalty deal, but he didn't take it.

10:59

Wait a minute. I offered him a royalty deal to pay for my real estate agent license.

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And I told him I'd give him a royalty deal on every house that I sell in perpetuity.

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And he said, he said, no. Well, he said, actually, that's a pretty good idea. Let me think about it. But I've got, I haven't gotten a real answer.

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So he, he, he should do it if he's smart. Yeah. Cause that's, well, that's what a broker is.

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So as a real estate broker, that's what I do is I say, Hey, you can come work for me, but I'm going to take a percentage out of every check you make, or you can pay me a flat fee for as long as you work for me.

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All right. And we'll talk about it later. We just shark tanked ourself.

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I just found a new investor. Oh my gosh. You're hilarious.

11:49

So the second news story we'll go on and we just got two here. Cause then we'll get into it. This one

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I covered just because we do a lot of tech stuff. We like to talk about Elon Musk. We like to talk about tech censorship, all that.

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This one I found funny because interesting, excuse me, because my wife uses

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DuckDuckGo, Samantha, the you know, and she's just like down with Google.

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I want my privacy. They give me better search results, right? Yeah. Well, lo and behold, it says popular privacy focused search engine

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DuckDuckGo commonly considered an alternative to Google has announced that it will start down ranking sites associated with disinformation, what they consider disinformation along with adding information boxes to highlight quality of information.

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The announcement received widespread backlash from DuckDuckGo supporters who view the changes as adopting the censorship policies of the masters of the universe.

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That's what Google is colloquially being referred to here in this article. In a recent Twitter post, the CEO of privacy focused search engine

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DuckDuckGo announced that the company would be down ranking sites associated with disinformation, which has been a popular tactic by Google for years.

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So then there was a tweet and someone tweeted out, like so many others, I'm sickened by Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the gigantic humanitarian crisis it continues to create staying with Ukraine at DuckDuckGo.

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We've been rolling out search updates that down rank sites associated with Russian disinformation.

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That's what the CEO of DuckDuckGo tweeted out. Someone replied, the whole point of DuckDuckGo is for you not to do that.

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And then he replied, the CEO, the whole point of DuckDuckGo is privacy. The whole point of the search engine is to show more relevant content over less relevant content.

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And that is what we will continue to do. So they doubled down on it. They said, hey, we need the same algorithm as Google.

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This makes me mad. And we're going to choose what we think is disinformation and what isn't. And I found it a little bit funny because my wife hates

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DuckDuckGo. It takes her 18 minutes to find something. But she is, you know her. Yeah. Once she goes to it, she's stubborn.

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She's like, so now she's getting good at it, like six months later. And I go, just, you can't get away from Google. I hate

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Google. Just go back to Google. Nope, I'm not going back. They're banned for life. I'm going right for whatever reason. So now she's been struggling for six months with DuckDuckGo and now they're going to start censoring and just kind of going, well, we think this is disinformation.

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I don't, I don't get why companies think it's their responsibility to feed us the information that they want to give us.

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Like, you know what I mean? And that completely, that completely defeats the purpose because it's just either side, the disinformation is, you know, one side thinks this is disinformation.

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The other side thinks the other, but the whole point is we want to be able to look for ourselves. If you have critical thinking skills, you're an adult.

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You should be able to sift through the information. So it's just, it's sad because it's, everything has like a political slant and everybody has to like stand up for what they believe in.

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And I'm like, what happened to like 50 years ago when like you didn't talk about politics or it was taboo to talk about who you voted for and now everything,

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I mean, if you sell, if you sell donuts in a donut shop, you have to have like who you're voting for.

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And you know, all people welcome. And it's like, who cares? Right. I don't, if your donuts are good,

15:00

I'm going to buy them. I don't really care about anything else. And if I do, then I just wouldn't buy donuts there.

15:05

Right. Like let the free market sort it out kind of thing. Like if you want to go patronize a place that has certain political views, go to it.

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And if you don't, don't. Right. That's what I've always said about the smoking ban. I have horror smoking inside.

15:18

Who wants to smell cigarette smoke while I'm trying to eat? But at the same time, I said when we were passing it in Michigan, it's not the state's job to tell in a private business if they can have someone smoke inside or not.

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Guess what? I will never set foot inside of a business that allows smoking. And all the people who agree with me are going to go to that place that goes, hey, we don't allow smoking.

15:37

Right. So come here if you want a nice clean air without, you know, the risk of cancer. And guess what would happen?

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Eventually the smoking places, there'd be one or two of them out of the 100 ,000 in the area. Right. And it would just weed itself out through the free market.

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Instead, we do everything regulatory. And that's what big tech is doing. I've always said you can very easily tell who's, you know, you can create an algorithm at Google or DuckDuckGo on who's clicking on it and then the bounce rate, how long they're on it and categorize it that way.

16:04

Hey, this might be disinformation, but we've got a whole bunch of people looking at it for a long amount of time. So obviously the people who are searching for it on our site are interested in it.

16:12

You know, like you said, why is it their job to say, well, we think you should look at this instead of that?

16:18

Right. Do they think we're that stupid? We can't make a decision for ourselves. I just also saw this thing where Facebook is lessening because like you can't even say like you're stupid or you're dumb on Facebook and it'll ping it for this is hate speech.

16:31

Well, they're lessening their hate speech bylaws right now. What? For people talking about Russia and Russians.

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They said, you know, you can't say I want to kill or whatever, but we're going to lessen our bylaws for hate speech when people are talking about Russia because of what's going on in the world.

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And I'm just, and it blew my mind because I'm like, okay, so because you don't agree with whatever group of people you can, you can lessen the bylaws and put hate speech on them.

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But what about everybody else? You know what I mean? Like the, so there really are no rules. It's all,

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I just, they, they do. They think we're dumb. They think that we're dumb, that we don't have critical thinking skills. And it's, it's so plainly in sight that it's infuriating to me.

17:13

Like the most, I wish I could quit all social media. Like I, I wish I could be done with all of it. It kind of, yeah, it's kind of stinks for us because we kind of run businesses on social media.

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Like I literally started a real estate business online. Same. I don't really advertise. I do all my stuff on social media and it's free.

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Well, I say free, but I'm selling myself to Facebook. They know everything about me. It's your livelihood. Yeah. The most ironic thing ever is that progressivism and leftistism is about, they say they're about tolerance, inequality, and it's the two things that they're not about.

17:44

No. Unless you disagree with them. Then, you know, there's no such thing as equality or tolerance. Absolutely. That's crazy.

17:49

So we got a third news story in there. So we should go look that up, guys. If you're listening, go check out the Facebook and the hate speech and picking a group of people.

17:57

Yeah. I'm, okay, look, I'm just going to say this. This might not be popular and you guys might send me all kinds of hate mail, but I'm really starting to go, okay, let's see all of big tech, all of, uh, all of the news, uh,

18:10

George Soros, um, all of the Bilderberg people, the elites, all of the, uh, but they're all on Russia's.

18:19

They're all against Russia. And I'm like, well, wait a minute. Now, Russia's not, no, Putin's a bad dude.

18:24

Okay. So let's not get it twisted. But at the same time I go, what is really going on? Yeah. If we can all unite against Russia and all the people that I usually don't trust, mainstream media, the

18:35

George sources, the elites, all these people that have things going on in the background. If they don't like Russia, wait, should

18:42

I, you know what I mean? It's like confusing. It's like, wait a minute. It can't be that clear cut. Now, a lot of people say it has to do with the central banking.

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Russia is the only one that is not connected to the Rothschild and the central bank and all that. But, um, I don't know enough about it to speak about it on here and give anyone any advice, but especially with it, with the last three years and just all the things that have happened, it makes you question what's really going on.

19:03

Yeah. And then also, what are we being distracted? Yeah. Which I will say that the, um, the

19:11

Pfizer vaccine documents just came out that they wanted sealed until 2097. So that was interesting.

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And you haven't seen that anywhere on the news. Did it come out? It's seven pages of not side effects, but adverse effects.

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So side effects are things that they knew were going to happen. You might get, you know, a rash, you might get a headache, you might vomit, but adverse effects are things that they're going adverse effects in a, in a clinical way are basically, we had no idea this would happen.

19:35

And there are seven pages of it, which is crazy. Yeah. And that's being covered nowhere, huh? Nowhere.

19:41

And Pfizer fought to have it. Um, they, they didn't want it released until 2097, which is interesting because by then all the people who have taken a vaccine, not saying

19:49

I have or haven't none of your business, but all of those people would be gone. Yeah. It'd all be dead as a full generation, you know, like it's so nuts.

19:58

Wow. That is crazy. All right. Sorry. I'll get off that. No, I like it. We got all kinds of news stories in here.

20:03

All right, let's wrap it up. That was the news. And that was the newsy news. Thank you, Jason. Who's not here.

20:11

So, uh, let's get into it. So tell us a little bit about your experience at the ramp. Maybe at first tell people what that is.

20:17

Yeah. Um, I remember you going, there was a few years ago. Several. Is it several years ago now?

20:23

Right. Um, and time flies and tell us a little bit about that. And then tell us a little bit about like what you learned from that maybe, or I don't know.

20:31

We'll just see where it goes. Cause I was so interested in that because they do have a very, well, tell us about it first and then we'll start talking.

20:38

So I went to the ramp, which was started by Karen Wheaton, who was like this

20:43

Southern gospel singer, essentially, and, um, started just kind of like a youth ministry, which then over the years transformed into a ministry school.

20:54

So, um, the ministry school was run, um, mainly by Damon Thompson for the first few years.

20:59

And then you had people like Micah Wood, Casey Doss, um, and, and several leaders that kind of taught classes.

21:06

And really it was about, um, people who wanted to go into ministry and either some type of leadership, maybe like a worship pastor, um, or even start a business, but it'd be kind of ministry sided or ministry led.

21:20

Um, and so it was really just a ministry school to go for two years and kind of, um, learn, be under, you know, these teachings and covering and that sort of thing.

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I say covering cause that's such like a niche word, um, for that sect of Christians or denomination, but it was technically a non -denominational school that I went to for two years and it was interesting.

21:43

So it's definitely more of like a Pentecostal based school. Um, lots of gifts of the spirit being used and that sort of thing in those sort of teachings.

21:52

And I, I want to start this by saying that I am very grateful that I got to go there.

21:57

I made lifelong friendships. My relationship with the Lord grew. I learned a lot, but I learned a lot, both good and I would say probably some negative.

22:07

I've, I saw some things that, um, especially being on kind of the inside of a ministry that I went, okay, so this is how things work.

22:16

This is how things look. This is how things are run, at least here. But then I've seen that repeated in other ministries.

22:22

So it was really interesting. And I think one thing is that at least the way that we,

22:28

I'll say we were raised was, um, I'm more of the Pentecostal side of things on more of now being older and having a more,

22:36

I would say, well -rounded opinion and walk with the Lord and experience. We were raised in more of what

22:44

I kind of like to call emotional religion, where there is so much emotion involved.

22:50

How are the drums being played? Is there music at the altar call? Is there an altar call?

22:55

Are people crying? Are you yelling? And, and there was a lot. Is there a demon in the cabbage patch doll?

23:02

Yeah. Oh God, don't get me started on that. Um, so it, it definitely had more of that kind of vibe to it in some cases.

23:12

Now in classes and things, a lot of the word was being preached. That's where I learned the most from some of the most well -rounded,

23:19

I would say pastors and speakers that I've been under. But then there were also people that came that I remember sitting there going, this is not it.

23:27

This is not, this isn't Jesus. This feels like a show.

23:33

This feels like you're getting kids in their early twenties who have come, have flocked here either to be in ministry school or because they have serious issues that they're struggling with.

23:45

And this is their last hope or last chance. And you're kind of preying on that. You're kind of getting them to this emotional state.

23:51

So it was really interesting to go there and live in that for two and a half years. And then to come out of it and what

23:57

I've seen come out of it and what I've seen, even my fellow classmates and where they're at.

24:03

It's not what I expected, not what I expected at all. So was there a lot of, because here's, here's what

24:10

I usually find. Tell me how accurate this sounds to you. Because we really haven't talked about this too much. This is crazy.

24:15

People are going to be hearing. No one has ever asked me about it. Really? No. Okay. Well, here we go. So I find,

24:21

I've been finding guys that might, that either, I even hate to use the word mentor, but maybe that I'm mentoring or they're a little bit younger than me and, you know, they'll come to me and they'll say, yeah,

24:32

I, in my early twenties, mid twenties. And I had this too. I was at a certain spot and I was so zealous for the

24:39

Lord that the emotion of that, which is good. The Lord gives us emotion. Like he wants us to feel happy.

24:45

He wants us to feel joy and contentment and all those things that he's blessed us with. But that, that pulled them into a place where it was like, we're going to take over the world.

24:53

We're going to heal. We're going to do all these things. And then all this kind of crazy healing, this healing, healing stuff came with it.

25:00

And if you've listened to the podcast for any amount of time, you know that I'm a cautious continuationist. So I do believe that God does heal and work miracles, but I'm extremely cautious about it.

25:09

And I think it happens much, much, much less than what we see on certain video clips of people in ministry and on Christian channels and things like that.

25:19

But I do believe God can and will heal if he, if he wants to. I feel, side note,

25:25

I feel sometimes the approach that's taught, that God wants every single person healed is not the right or biblical mantra to have.

25:33

You could very well go up to someone in a wheelchair and they're thinking in their heart, in their unregenerated heart, I can hardly wait to get out of this wheelchair so I can start molesting children again.

25:42

Right. And you're praying for their healing and going, this is what God wants. Well, we're not going to get into the deep theological behind that, but I feel like, and I've had a couple of guys tell me this and they go, as I matured and I started to get into balance, like moderation, right?

25:57

The older you get, the more you go, oh, God is a God of moderation in all things, in speech, in thought, in actions towards others, in the sharp objects he gives us, in wine and alcohol and tobacco and all these things.

26:08

They're sharp objects and you handle them with care and you handle them in a biblical manner and with moderation, right?

26:14

And I've had quite a few people go, as I look back on that, I just went, wow, that was a lot of zeal with not, maybe not a whole lot of biblical foundation.

26:23

I'm not saying the ramp didn't have biblical foundation. I know who was the first guy I mentioned, Damon. Damon Thompson.

26:29

I've heard some of his sermons and he fires me up and I go, this guy knows the Bible. We may not agree on all the secondary doctrinal issues, him and I, but you listen to him, he loves the

26:39

Lord, he's an Orthodox Christian, as in he believes in the main doctrinal things that he needs to believe in.

26:47

And you just go, okay, so there was probably foundational preaching there and teaching, but at the same time, like you said, you have a group of kids that are very emotional driven or maybe just like zeal without knowledge, like the

26:58

Bible says. Do you feel as you got a little bit older too, like with that came wisdom and just went, okay, it's not all one thing or the other.

27:06

It's maybe a little of both or what do you think? Well, I think it's - Both, excuse me. There you go. She makes fun of me when

27:11

I say the L in both. I think it's interesting that you use that word balance because when

27:17

I was driving over here, I was just kind of thinking, okay, like, you know, how do I want to talk about this? And how honest do

27:23

I want to be? How far do I want to go with that? But it's interesting that you use the word balance because that's really,

27:31

I would say the biggest lesson that I learned at the ramp, apart from theology and ministry and touching people's lives and your relationship with the

27:41

Lord, the biggest thing I personally learned that really was not taught there, but I learned through living in this ministry bubble was balance.

27:50

And I really like to use the kind of the picture of like a clock pendulum that swings from one side to the other.

28:00

And not that your life shouldn't be completely encompassed by the

28:06

Lord, but there is something about balance that you have to make sure that you are still living life in,

28:14

I hate to say it this way, but being normal in a way. Sometimes that zeal comes off in a way where it's so over the top that people are taken back by it in a negative way.

28:26

When you're so we're taking over the world and we're doing this and okay, we're going on the streets and we're praying in tongues out loud.

28:32

And in my own experience, that doesn't bring people into a relationship with the

28:37

Lord. They look at you and go, that, it seems a little off.

28:42

That seems a little weird because there's all this zeal and some part lack of knowledge and some part lack of balance of going, you know what?

28:50

Look at Jesus's walk. He had 12 close friends that he ministered to on a daily basis and had relationship with and probably had conversations with every day.

29:02

He also had a job that he went to. He was a carpenter. He invested there. And I think part of what

29:09

I learned the most was balance of my life can't just be all one thing all the time because it doesn't work that way.

29:17

Well, the Bible never calls us to that either. They were called disciples because he was discipling them.

29:24

Well, what does disciple mean? So we have a shirt on our website and it says we need less pastors and more disciples.

29:30

And it's not because we hate pastors. It's because everyone's got a ministry. It's like Oprah giving away cards. You get a ministry.

29:36

You're a pastor, a family pastor, a worship pastor, a youth pastor, a head pastor, a pastor of missions, right?

29:42

When in fact, you need to disciple others. The first commandment that Christ gave us was disciple others.

29:47

Well, what does that look like? That is a long, intensive, drawn out thing. That's not a emotional, hey,

29:53

I'm going to pray for you two seconds on the street and then move on. That is seven, 10, 15 year relationships with a person, maybe showing them how to run a business, maybe showing them how to be financially sound, showing them the love of God unconditionally when they're going through hard times in their life, like mentoring them.

30:08

That's what discipleship is. And through that discipleship, he says what? Disciple nations and preach the gospel.

30:14

Gospel is the second thing we preach. They actually see the gospel in the discipleship. So if discipling is a long, drawn out, intensive process for us, right?

30:22

If you're discipling someone that intensely, do you think you can disciple two, three, 4 ,000 people?

30:28

Or maybe you disciple 15 people your whole entire life. And part of that is that there is a belief that really

30:36

I even thought was that, okay, it just takes one touch from the King to change everything.

30:42

Which is true. Which is true. There is deliverance there, but there's also practical steps to deliverance.

30:48

There's also support in those situations. And that was part of the balance that I can remember, you know, we're in this big prayer meeting praying for someone and nothing's changing, but no one other than prayer, no one's doing anything.

31:01

No one's going over and going, hey, how are you? Can I pray for you? Can I spend time with you? Can I be your accountability partner?

31:07

You know, what can I do for you? And then I feel like that balance, that partnership just wasn't there.

31:13

Because there's a part of it that where you're talking about this long, drawn out process of really investing in people.

31:19

I think there's also an idea of, oh, well, I just pray for you at an altar call where you're crying, you're delivered.

31:25

It should be done and over. And then when that person walks away and maybe they're different for a week or two, but then maybe slide back into things that they thought they were delivered from, that can be really damaging.

31:36

Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I always thought, wouldn't it be powerful if when you were praying for, let's say for a healing.

31:41

First of all, me personally, I've gotten to a point to where if I'm praying for someone and if it is for some type of ailment or sickness or something like that, first of all,

31:52

I'm praying God's will. Yeah. Because I'm a huge Shadrach, Neshach, and Abednego. Our God can save us.

31:58

He will save us. But even if he doesn't. Oh, I just got chills. But even if he doesn't. Even if he doesn't. Why'd they throw that in there if they knew, right?

32:05

So I always thought, wouldn't it be interesting if you just go, you know what? I'm going to pray for you. I have an ailment or I'm in a wheelchair, whatever it is, right?

32:12

We'll take one of the cliche examples. What if that Christian who was discipling people and also wanted to see people healed say,

32:19

Lord, I pray your will over this situation, but until you show us or there's a healing or whatever it is that you want, brother, if you need to be picked up for work every single day, if you need help around the house with your cleaning, if you need to get to doctor's appointments because of your infirmity or your ailment,

32:37

I'm there for you because I'm a brother in the Lord and I serve like Christ served me. How much more of a great example would that be to that person in that wheelchair with that physical ailment, whatever it is?

32:48

But no one wants to do that because that's really hard work. And that's what following Christ is. It's a lot of pragmatic, hard work.

32:54

It's giving yourself to others when in fact, if we can just say a really happy, excited, the

33:01

Lord's going to heal you. I declare this and that, and then, oh, nothing happened. Walk away. Well, I'll keep praying for you. Man, that's so shallow.

33:08

And I feel like, yeah, the Lord can heal and he will heal, but he calls us to do all kinds of stuff in the meantime, in the meantime of, you know, in the way of discipling others and loving others and serving others.

33:19

And I feel like that would be a greater reflection of Christ than just a quick, fancy prayer.

33:26

Yeah, or even just inviting someone to church. I think there has been kind of a lazy idea of, oh, well, just, you know, just come to church with me because what, the pastor's going to do the work?

33:39

Because I think about things like my very two best friends in the whole world who I've known since I was 14 years old, they weren't

33:45

Christians when I met them. And they're both absolutely on fire for the Lord now, but I've spent 15 years with them.

33:51

And not that I'm so great, but it's, you know, and if those are the only two people that I, you know, have helped bring to the kingdom, you know, that's worth it.

34:02

But it's like, that's a 15 year relationship of investing there, not just being like, oh, we'll just come to church or, oh, hey, come to this ministry school conference or whatever.

34:12

And I think there's a huge thing of like, what you're saying is it takes time and investment. And it really is about,

34:18

Jesus had 12 friends. I think of it that way. I know that those were the disciples, but those were his friendships. That's who he spent time with.

34:24

That's who he wanted at the last supper. That's who he called upon for help, you know, or to pray for me or stay watch.

34:31

And that's a big deal. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think there's a drop off too when you do the, you know, well, first of all,

34:39

I agree with you. It's not our, it's not the pastor's job to save your friend. Like they should be looking to you in the interactions that you are having with them throughout the week and going, yeah,

34:49

I want to know more about this thing that you believe, the thing you call the gospel, because it's reflected in your life. Right.

34:55

And they're 90 % of the way there, if not already saved, because people don't realize we're in a seeker friendly generation.

35:01

The church is not for sinners, is not for the unsaved. Yeah. The New Testament church was set up.

35:06

The ecclesiastical gathering of the brothers and sisters were for those that were saved. It was for fellowship and to uplift through the preaching of the gospel.

35:15

Now we've made it. Hey, let's have half the church believers and let's bring sinners every week that don't know anything from anything.

35:21

And hopefully the preacher has a really good 25 minute sermon and they'll get saved. Now look at, can the

35:26

Lord use anything? Absolutely. The Lord can save whenever he feels like it and he can use anything. My point being is once again,

35:34

I feel like we put it on something else instead of our own work that we need to do.

35:39

And it is work. It's hard work. Like, yeah, you have to live a godly Christ -like life for people to look at you.

35:45

And then also say, okay, why do you do that that way? Why won't you do that? Why do you do this?

35:50

I find those questions that people ask me, that's when I can preach the gospel the easiest because the ground has already been softened through my actions.

36:00

Look at, I know that there's people that street preach. We've had guys on here that go to the abortion clinics and do that.

36:06

And they do it lovingly and graciously. And sometimes there is an urgency on those type of things. But I don't think

36:12

I could ever be, and I don't feel like I've been called to it, to go out on the street corner and just preach open air to people.

36:20

Now, I don't know. Maybe the Lord may call me to it one day, but I just feel they're 99 % of the way there when they go, well, why don't you do that?

36:30

Or why do you do it that way? Oh, I'm glad you asked. There's this cool verse in Ephesians 4 that says all that I do, or 1

36:37

Corinthians, everything that I do, whether I eat or drink or golf or run for commissioner or real estate, I do to the glory of God.

36:43

And they go, what? And I go, oh no, I can do all those things unto the glory of God because I give them glory in all that I do. So stuff like that, because now it's softened.

36:52

They're already asking the question instead of me just going up to someone going, hey, I didn't see you in church Sunday or what religion did you grow up?

36:59

Or however you're going to start that conversation. Well, I always think it's funny because I went to ministry school and I joke and say, yeah,

37:07

I went to ministry school to realize I don't want to work in ministry or for a church, but it's because I did learn some of that balance.

37:18

And also what I really learned was that anything I do, as Matthew says, as you go into the world, so whether that's you work for a ministry or you own your own business or you have a nine to five or you're a mom or whatever, preach what

37:32

I've commanded. So that is your ministry. Yeah. And so there was a real freeing thing there to where, you know, now

37:39

I own a business where I help women step into balance, lose weight and get healthy. And I know a lot of people look at me and they're kind of like, well, you were supposed to be a worship leader and that's what you were kind of the track you were on and what you're anointed at and what you're called to do, which, you know, that's great.

37:54

I did that for a while, but I think that once the Lord anoints you, you're just anointed.

38:01

Yeah. The Bible says you're blessed going in and coming out, you know? So it's like, whatever I do,

38:06

His anointing's on it. His hand is on it. And it's like, whether I'm leading worship in the church or I'm working with women one -on -one,

38:15

I have an opportunity for real ministry there, you know? So that whole view that you have is a, and I don't want to,

38:21

I don't want to dog one denomination or one train of thought, but that kind of you're gifting and you're anointing, that's only been around for about 200 years, right?

38:30

So all Paul is saying when he's talking about gifting is he goes, not everyone's going to have every gift. Some is going to be teachers.

38:36

Some are going to be preachers. Some are going to be, you know, but not, there's, you're never going to find everyone with every single gift.

38:43

We're all different. And I just find it, it's so restrictive when you're in a denomination or you're in a church that says from a young age to, they'll do this to kids coming up.

38:54

Yes, a calling. Oh, you have a calling. You're, so now it's like, if I don't do this, I'm not truly a Christian.

38:59

I'm not being my fullest potential. When in fact the freeing thing for me was, you know, first Corinthians 1031.

39:06

Like I said, I think it is or 1013. I'm dyslexic. Whatever you do, anything you do, you do it onto the glory of God.

39:13

That's why I love the first commandment of, or the first question of the Westminster confession when it says, what is the chief end of man?

39:20

It's to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Come on. So how do we do that? So how do we enjoy him forever?

39:26

Oh, well, I enjoy him a lot by sitting in a hunting blind and looking at his creative That's what my husband and I love to travel and travel there and look at the ocean and go, this is the hand of God.

39:38

Yeah, absolutely. You know what I mean? Being in nature or being with friends and having good community and fellowship and having good conversation.

39:46

You know what I mean? That sort of thing. I feel like the business of church sometimes mucks that up.

39:51

Yeah. Cause when you said ministry, you were saying it like with a capital M like ministry. Right. And that's kind of what turned you off.

39:57

You're saying. So what were some of the things that you saw where you were like, yeah, I'm not really down with this. Would it be some of the more probably popular things we would think of like running church, like a business or just like political stuff going on?

40:09

And when I say political, I'm not talking about politics. I'm saying like this person may have this position because they know this person or nepotism or what was it?

40:16

I think one of the big things was one ministry as a business and the way money is used and what it goes towards.

40:26

And really, instead of using like actual wisdom, kind of just spending money where you feel like God is telling you to.

40:35

And, and I mean, don't get me wrong. I know the Lord can speak to people and give clear indication, but just not being wise with money and watching, you know, just kind of taking the, taking for granted that people are tithing and people are wanting to sow into the ministry and not using that with wisdom, not using that with care, something like that.

40:53

And then also, um, really just kind of the, the idea of you have one calling and you can do one thing.

41:01

And I remember really feeling like if all I'm good for is leading worship,

41:07

I don't want to do that. Right. I don't, I, I, I don't want to be a worship leader for 30 years or I don't feel called to that anymore that I don't like, you know, if that, if that passion leaves and you feel like you're, you know, being called to something else or want to do something else, um, why would you stay up there and lead worship?

41:27

If it's something that you're not even passionate about anyway, is that really even benefiting anyone?

41:33

Is it benefiting the Lord? I didn't feel like it was, you know? Um, so something like that.

41:39

And then also, I mean, just really, I think with a lot of kind of these trendy ministries, everyone looks the same.

41:45

Everyone talks the same. They look for a certain type and the people who are promoted, and this is what really, really frustrated me because there was a group of people that,

41:55

I mean, there are some people when they walk by you and you go, they love the Lord. They are for real, the real deal.

42:02

You can tell they're in the Word. You can tell that they're in real true relationship with the Lord. Those people weren't promoted.

42:09

It was the people who looked the part, who spoke eloquently, who looked a little bit better on stage.

42:16

And when I saw that going on, that's when I went, I don't want to be a part of this.

42:22

That's not who I am. I can't fake that. I don't want to fake that. Right. So for me, it was after kind of living in that for several years and going, you know what?

42:32

I don't think I can be part of that. That's just not who I am. And how sad to think if you have younger kids going there already, maybe struggling with insecurities or image issues or broken homes or whatever it is.

42:47

And then you see, oh, I have to fake and look a certain way, sound a certain way, dress a certain way, make sure

42:53

I can present myself on social media a certain way to be in ministry. Yeah. Or to be used.

42:59

To be used. Oh, that makes me so upset because it's like, it's a form of blaspheming the name of God.

43:07

Um, I wish we could somehow see and interact with some of the great men and women of the

43:13

Bible because they were probably the strangest. Yeah. Weirdest. He uses the least of these. Uses the least.

43:19

Right. And the other cool thing in the Bible is you see both examples. You see guys like David, who from a young age was called to a very specific thing.

43:26

You're going to be a king. You're going to be my warrior. You're going to, you're not going to build the temple. Right. And then you see other prophets that were like, oh,

43:33

I'm going to go prophesy. And he's like, no, actually you're going to go marry a prostitute. So we've seen, you know what

43:38

I mean? Like we saw, we've seen both to where we've been called from a young age and God also saying, oh no, everything that everyone said you were going to do,

43:45

I'm going to have you do something different, you know? So it's like, there's no set.

43:50

You can't put God in a box and say, oh, oh, she's really good at guitar. He's really good at keyboard.

43:55

He's really good at talking. You're going to be a preacher. You're going to be a guitar worship leader. You're going to play keyboard. It's like, what are we, what are we doing with that?

44:02

Should we encourage the gifts that the Lord's given us? Absolutely. Should we encourage people to use their gifts for the glory of God?

44:08

Yes, absolutely. But I also believe that you might have someone who is phenomenal on an instrument and never pick up an instrument for the

44:16

Lord. Yeah. And you don't know how the Lord uses that. It might be the fact that the way they read music or interpret the beautifulness of music, that they can use that in teaching.

44:26

They can use that in their personal relationships with people. Like we so put

44:32

God in a box because we're so stupid. We just go, oh, that person can't see. So God wants them to see.

44:38

That person can play the piano. So God wants them to play the piano. And you go, who are you, oh man, to say how

44:43

God's going to use any gifting or any person. And it also says that, you know, we see things through basically a fogged glass or a fogged window.

44:50

And I listened to this really amazing podcast one time by Tim Delina, who I love. And he was talking about how we need to be grateful for the things that the

44:58

Lord protects us from that we don't even know about. You know, maybe someone took a left turn when they were going to take a right and slam into our car, you know, just things that you're, the whole idea of things that you're kind of protected from.

45:09

But that's this, that's the same kind of philosophy as we don't know why someone is blind or why they're not getting healed when you pray for them.

45:19

You know, and in all honesty, how I feel now at this point, it's none of your business. You don't need to know.

45:25

You really don't need to. Because that's part of faith. It's a decision you make of either

45:30

I'm following and I'm trusting. And there are things that I'm not going to understand or I'm not going to know.

45:36

And I don't have to. That is part of faith. That is part of following Christ. Yeah. You know what I mean?

45:42

Kind of like a childlike faith. Like he talks about, come unto me like a child. It's not because he wants us to be less intelligent or less wise, right?

45:50

We're supposed to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. But children have this great thing where they just trust you because you're the supreme authority in their life.

46:00

And all they've known is that you've taken care of them since they can remember. A young child, right? This is a really weird thing where it's like if Aunt Charity says something to one of my daughters, they're like, we love

46:12

Aunt Charity. Yes, we know she'll never hurt us. We trust her. It's like, and that's what I think Christ was talking about when we have a childlike faith is, yeah, we go back to Shadrach, Neshach, and Abednego.

46:22

Our God loves us. He can save us. He will save us. But even if he doesn't. And it's this crazy thing where we've gotten away.

46:29

And I say this quote way too much on the podcast. Listeners probably hate it, but I love it. It's like the sovereignty of God is the soft pillow on which

46:36

I rest my head in times of trouble. Like, I don't have to know the way it works out. It's just this really crazy piece.

46:43

Like when they say a piece that surpasses understanding, I have a weird piece of, yeah, it doesn't matter which way.

46:48

Now, does that mean I become a nihilist and just sit back and go, oh, whatever will be, will be. God must want it. No, absolutely not.

46:55

We work, and we toil, and we disciple, and we grow businesses, and we go into the marketplace, and we have fun with friends, and we do stuff with the family, and we go on trips, and we see the world.

47:03

We do all those things. But we're doing it, one, knowing that if God takes care of the sparrows, he takes care of his sons and daughters, right?

47:13

And I feel sometimes, getting back to your ramp experience, sometimes that can be lost when we put the experience of the flesh or emotion above the understanding of how much

47:29

God truly does love us, not because he blesses us and gives us good things, but the fact that we're, like you said, like the things that we don't know about, like the things that he saves us from every single day that we don't know, like this perpetual, we need to be in a perpetual state of gratefulness and thankfulness.

47:46

If we can get to that point, everything else kind of falls to the wayside. Yeah. That was one of the reasons with me,

47:51

I know I'm talking a lot here, and you can interrupt any time, but one of the reasons why I kind of had this mind shift about three years ago to where I was so into politics, right?

47:59

And people have heard me talk about this before. Just three, four, five, six, seven hours sometimes in a day, just milling through things, posting, talking, right?

48:08

And going, oh, I'm doing it, but I'm doing it from a Christian perspective, so I'm telling people what they need to hear.

48:14

And it was like an idol in my life. God was like, would you rather spend time with Breitbart, or Ben Shapiro, or Fox News, or just spend time with me?

48:24

And then once I got into a place of daily gratefulness for just him loving me, then everything else just...

48:32

When you just said that whole Facebook thing, I was like, I didn't even hear about... I'm not nearly into it as I was two or three years ago.

48:38

And sometimes it's a hindrance being in politics and stuff like that. People are like, oh, did you hear about this bill? Did you hear about... No, I don't care.

48:45

I just want to love God, bring him glory, and talk on this podcast. Yeah, but that goes right back to all things in balance.

48:53

Yeah, true. All things in balance. Because even a... This is something I teach my clients. Even a good thing out of balance is no longer a good thing.

49:03

So for example, you can be such a self -sacrificing person, which is a beautiful quality, which serving others and sacrificing for others.

49:12

But when that's vastly out of balance, that's no longer a good thing. That quality in balance is beautiful.

49:19

But when it goes too far to one side, now we don't have a good thing anymore. It starts backfiring.

49:26

And I think that's even similar with, again, coming back to our walk with the Lord. And even what

49:32

I've seen in ministry school is that it's so intense. You're in classes from... You get up at six and you have to go to a two -hour prayer.

49:39

Then you're in classes, reading the word, diving deep into the word, getting teaching for another four to five hours.

49:46

Then you have a break and you come back at night to do evening prayer or a worship service.

49:52

And then on weekends, it's three full days of conference. And all day long, it's just teaching and preaching and worship.

50:00

And not that any of that is a bad thing. But being out of balance, living your life like that for three years, and then all of a sudden, okay, now you're done.

50:12

I've watched my classmates go into the world and not know how to live in balance and actually live a

50:19

Christian life because it was so overwhelming for three years. And your whole life is classes and reading the word and teachings and that sort of thing.

50:29

And so I've seen people go from 100 miles an hour on this side in ministry school for three years in this bubble to then the whole other side where some of my classmates are transgender or gay or atheist or just don't even look recognizable at all.

50:47

And it's because it comes back to that balance thing. And would you say maybe a lack of pragmatic, what is actually you're going to face in life?

51:00

Sometimes I feel like Christians can get in a bubble too. And it's like, it's an echo chamber, just like how you can in politics, but the

51:07

Christian church can do it towards like, we believe this, we do this, this is up. And then, especially when you're in a ministry school and then you're released out into the real world where there's opposition and bills to pay and finances to be figured out and interacting with people at work and all those things.

51:23

I think that and partially a lot in that denomination, your understanding and your belief or your faith is never challenged.

51:34

No one ever asks why or how, or why is it done this way? Why do we believe this? Because a lot of the

51:40

Bible is picked apart in little pieces and not looked at as a whole. This line supports what we believe.

51:48

So we're going to use it this way. When in reality, if you read the whole chapter, the whole book of the

51:53

Bible, it's not what it's talking about at all. Many denominations and many churches do that too.

52:00

That's true. You can have it even within our Reformed community too, where you cherry pick a few verses and you can think, you can make up this kind of doctrinal thing.

52:10

When in fact, we've talked about it often on the podcast, having a good hermeneutic and understanding how to read the Bible, letting vague verses, the

52:17

Bible interprets those instead of making something out of it. It's just crazy to me though, because when you really, it's scary when you really start getting into like scholarly work and like church history, you're like, what?

52:26

That whole thing that I was taught was based on one guy in a field saying that, and then we just ran with it.

52:33

Yeah. You know, the early church fathers didn't believe it. The disciples didn't believe it. Christ didn't talk about it. And it's just crazy how far off we can get when we just don't let the, when the word be sufficient.

52:43

Yeah. You know, and I think that's why, yeah, the word has to come first over experience, in my opinion.

52:49

And that's one of the big things too, is that if your faith is only built on experience, a lot of those experiences are manufactured, in my opinion, at these like hipster churches.

53:01

Yeah. And I'm just, there's a point in life where I went, you know what, I'm not wasting my time on that.

53:07

I'm not, I'm not a part, I don't want to be a part of that. I don't want to be a representation of that. I want to be a real representation of Christ.

53:14

I want to know the word. I want to know what I believe and why I believe it, not just because I had an experience at a church and I cried and I felt all lovey -dovey inside.

53:25

You know, even with my own experience of, and you can cut me off if you don't want to go here, but my own experience of dealing with an eating disorder for a decade, for 10 years.

53:35

Do you want to know how many altar calls I went up to and prayed and cried and, oh, it's going to be different.

53:41

And you know what? It wasn't different. Do you want to know how many worship services that I led and then

53:46

I would go purge into a toilet? Many. It was not until it really shifted from, okay, experiences and just, and, you know, it's going to be different tomorrow.

53:57

And, and, you know, um, if I cry enough or feel enough until it was, this is about the word.

54:02

It's about balance. There is practical application to deliverance and to following Christ.

54:08

It's not just about showing up on Sunday and crying during the worship service. It is a practical walk.

54:14

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, that's good. Sorry. Man, you got me all emotional.

54:21

Just the good kind of emotional, not the, but no, you're, you're so right though.

54:27

I mean, yeah, it's like, wow. You just said so much of this. It's like five places

54:32

I could jump off on, but yeah, just going from, cause it does such a hindrance. You live in that. And then, you know, even had

54:38

Jason talk about it so much when he was in that of like, what have I not done? Right. Yeah. Oh, it's back on me because I should be delivered.

54:46

I should be, I'm in church. I didn't pray enough when the Lord just goes,

54:51

Oh no. Yeah. You're never enough. Christ is enough. And Christ is yours. And you are Christ. Yeah.

54:58

When the most beautiful thing that I can think of in the gospel is when, is when he says, yeah, what that day of glory.

55:05

I'm looking, I'm looking at you and I don't see you. I see Christ. Like we've seen this all the time.

55:11

Like John Moffat was on last year and he just goes, you know, when you read through the Bible, it's like all are out of sin. You can't measure up.

55:17

You're not good enough. And he goes, yeah, that's the point. None of us can. The point is Christ has come. His righteousness is imputed to us.

55:24

And therefore we're enough. And it's like, Oh wow. What a weight lifted off my shoulder. When I finally realized, Oh, there's nothing

55:30

I can do. It's a reality. There's nothing I can do. Yeah. That's like filthy. My righteousness is like filthy rags.

55:36

So as good as I try to be, God says, that's like filthy rags. When you try to do something good on your own. And it's just so the reason why we talk about these things too on the podcast is

55:45

I feel so heavy hearted when I see people stuck in that. It's almost like a type.

55:50

It's like, you remember how like we, well, you might not have remembered because where there's nine years between us, but like the very legalistic kind of church we went to when we were younger.

55:58

And then we went to kind of the more Toronto blessing, Pentecost, whatever, like a big swing. Both of those extremes trap you in some type of like works based.

56:07

And isn't it funny how none of us who were raised in, in both extremes, all three of us kids, none of us are in that.

56:16

Yeah. Praise God. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Right. It doesn't, you can't stay, you can't stay in that forever.

56:25

Cause it's not balanced. It's not, it's not. Cause I think in all reality too, like just knowing you and knowing me, like I want truth.

56:33

I want to know what's real. I don't, I don't want this fake stuff. You know? And I feel like there's a lot of fake stuff out there, what we see on TV.

56:40

And I'm just, I'm tired of cool church and hipster church. I'm over it.

56:46

I don't, I don't have to have coffee and like cool snacks in the lobby and the pastor wearing tight jeans and like, you know, denim jacket for the worship leader.

56:55

I don't care. I don't need a light show. I don't even need cool music. Yeah. Like my favorite worship pastor that would come to the ramp.

57:04

All he does is he takes the Psalms exactly and just puts them to melody. Absolutely.

57:09

And it was the most powerful, beautiful thing then. Yeah. Don't even get me started on modern worship though.

57:15

It's just sad and depressing. So. Yeah. Our guys, our listeners probably don't want to hear it. They're like every week you guys get into.

57:21

Do you? We kind of touch on it because Jason and I are both musicians. We both have that.

57:27

Yeah. Like, dude, I'll sit down and I'll take a Psalm. I'll compose music to it. Then I'll worship the Lord with a

57:33

Psalm, him and I on the piano. And that goes farther than any pop kind of produced, engineered, sounds beautiful.

57:42

Yeah. Worship song that I've heard on the radio or anywhere else. I said radio. I don't even listen to the radio.

57:49

Streaming. But it's, yeah. Modern worship is getting bad. Well, I'll say this. One of the things

57:54

I loved that I learned at the ramp is that there are, I want to say nine different words,

58:01

Greek words for worship. So when you see the word worship in, well, the word worship in the Bible is used like over a thousand times.

58:08

And then there's nine different Greek words for it. So one might mean one thing. And one means that one might mean like clapping your hands loudly.

58:14

One might mean whatever. But the one that's used like 97 % of the time. So like 900 times in the

58:20

Bible, the word worship actually means to get as low as possible. Prostrate.

58:26

Yeah. So when we sing all these songs like, you know me and I'm just having a hard time, but you're there.

58:34

Like that ain't worship, honey. That's not. Worship is you are better. You are more.

58:39

I don't deserve it, but you still love me. Yeah. That is getting as low as possible.

58:46

So to show the chasm of how far that's a real worship.

58:51

Like that's, that blows my mind. So it's hard when, you know, I went to a church recently where I don't listen to any modern worship.

58:59

I listened to a little bit Maverick City. I love Rita Springer. She's awesome, but she's kind of old school and that's why. But we were singing this song and it just kept repeating, you know me, you know me.

59:10

And I'm like, I'm standing there going, well, duh, you created. Why am I telling my creator, you know me?

59:16

He knows that. He knows every hair on my head. I don't need to tell him like, what are we doing here?

59:22

Just making ourselves feel a certain way. And that's that feeling thing where I go, this isn't it.

59:28

Yeah. Not real. One of my favorite memes I saw is someone saying, I just, you know, I didn't really like worship this

59:35

Sunday. And it was like, good. It wasn't about you. You know what I mean? Like that's how you want to respond to those people. I just didn't get anything out of worship.

59:41

Well, good, because it wasn't about. You're not supposed to get anything. You are only supposed to give in worship.

59:47

Right. Okay. Okay. Let's change gears here a little bit. Cause we've already been going an hour. Oh, my flies by, doesn't it?

59:53

It's been like five minutes. For those of you sticking in to the episode this long, you're going to be, there's going to be a special treat because I want to do two fun things with you.

01:00:01

Okay. First of all, I do want to get some secrets from you because you're a flight attendant. You fly everywhere.

01:00:06

Could you give us like two or three things that either like super annoy you that passengers do?

01:00:13

Okay. That's like 500 things. So that or, or, or the flip side things that you could do, maybe even as a believer.

01:00:22

Uh, to that, that a flight attendant is a flight attendant or stewardess, what are we supposed to do?

01:00:28

That, that could help them that little things, maybe that you would go, if you just did that, that would make our job a little bit easier and we wouldn't have to like ask you or do it for you or I don't know.

01:00:38

Okay. Give me some examples. What do you think? This is on the fly too, guys. So definitely not to do. And I think every flight attendant would probably say this.

01:00:46

Do not touch us or poke us in the hips or butt when we are walking down the aisle.

01:00:52

Such a weird angle. You guys are at all. It happens to me every single day and it's like people forget to use their words.

01:00:59

So just say, excuse me or pardon me or raise your hand if I'm in your eyeline or whatever or eyesight.

01:01:06

But, um, what do they do? Just reach out and like, yeah, just like, but the thing is, is they're sitting and I'm standing. So it usually lands right on about my hips, which is just super uncomfortable.

01:01:14

And just don't touch anyone. You don't need to touch anybody. Right. Why are you touching? There's 228 of you.

01:01:20

You're close enough. Like, don't touch me. Just talk. Right. The other thing probably not to do, and I like to use this example is, you know, for everybody listening, whether you work in an office or you work in a cubicle or maybe, you know, you have everybody, when you go to work, you usually have a spot that's kind of like your workspace, right?

01:01:37

Right. I do not come to your cubicle who I've never met you and do my full yoga routine.

01:01:46

Right. Like just the amount of space. Are we not dressing up enough on the plane? What do you mean?

01:01:52

No. Are people coming in barefoot? No. Well, that happens too. And I always say that that ain't water on the floor in there.

01:01:59

And some still choose to go in without shoes. That's on them. But what

01:02:04

I mean by that is when people come back and want to like, you know, if you want to stretch or whatever, we totally get that. If you ask us, are you serious?

01:02:11

Do you mind if I just stretch back here? Usually we'll be like, yeah, sure. Go for it. And we'll go do a trash run or walk up to the other.

01:02:17

Wait a minute. Are you saying people actually go into the space where like the little kitchen areas and where you guys are and they stretch routine and like the amount of butts

01:02:26

I had in my face and all I can think about is like if this person farts right now, I'm gone.

01:02:31

I'm done for. The hatch is going to get blown open. Yeah. Don't love that for me.

01:02:37

Wait a minute. Wait. This blows my mind because I didn't know this happened. I've been on a lot of flights and I don't really I don't really pay attention to what's going on in the back end.

01:02:44

So people will come in there. Will they ask you first? That's what I'm saying. Just they will come in and just start doing it.

01:02:50

They'll lean all over our jump seats and stretch their back or they start doing like a full yoga. Those things are only like three foot, four foot wide.

01:02:57

Those. Yeah. And on my airline, which I won't mention, they're like a foot and a half. They're real small.

01:03:03

In fact, my my jump seat is in the bathroom. Like, oh, yeah.

01:03:09

Like those ones that fall down off the wall. I have I directly my face looks into the bathroom. So if someone has to go to the bathroom,

01:03:16

I have to get up. Are you serious? Yeah, I can't sit down the whole time. That is so awkward.

01:03:22

So we don't love that. What we do love is when you sit in the seat printed on your boarding pass.

01:03:28

Wait, people don't sit in the seat that's on their boarding pass. Yeah, it blows my mind because there's only one airline in the world where you just like randomly pick your seat, which is

01:03:35

Southwest. Every other airline in the world, you have a seat. It's printed on your boarding pass. And it's also calculated for weight and balance because you put in your weight.

01:03:45

No, you don't put in your weight. You put all of your bags. You do the bags. Yes, but that's exactly.

01:03:50

So if it's a light flight or we have certain open seats, it is calculated for what's in the in the belly of the plane and where people are sitting on board.

01:03:59

But what happens is one person will just be like, oh, you know what? This seat looks better. I'm going to sit here. So they will all even out.

01:04:06

Yeah, they sit there. And then nine times out of 10, which this blows my mind because this is not my personality.

01:04:11

But nine times out of 10, people will come up to that seat, see someone is sitting in their seat.

01:04:17

And so they'll just go sit somewhere else. Oh, heck no. They don't want to be like you're in my seat. I'm going to excuse me.

01:04:22

Right. But nine times out of 10, people don't do that. So now we have two seats off. And what happens is there's a chain reaction.

01:04:29

And we only have about 35 minutes to get you all on board. And we're your flight attendants aren't being paid for boarding.

01:04:34

So chop, chop. Right. And it's like a chain reaction of nine people all in the wrong seats. So just if you want to bless us as flight attendants, just sit in the seat.

01:04:44

Printed. OK, I'm getting I'm getting so schooled here because who doesn't know in this day and age, like baseball games, sporting events, movie theater, they all have assigned seating.

01:04:53

Who isn't sitting? It's it's part. And if you do like it's when you were younger, you're like, oh,

01:04:59

I'm trying to sneak up closer to first base with after halfway through the concert. Can I get that? Like that's when you don't sit in your seat when you're cheating.

01:05:06

They try to do that, too. But you're not in a stadium. You're in my airplane. And I know exactly where everyone's supposed to sit.

01:05:13

How are you getting a better seat in a little plane? You know, if they like they'll see like an exit row open or they'll see like, you know, where there's like a middle seat open.

01:05:22

But so you know, man's first class. Yeah. If you do want to ask, just ask your flight attendant and be nice.

01:05:27

And we'll usually move someone, you know, we'll move you. But crazy. Yeah. Oh, we learned something new. All right.

01:05:33

I'll go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to say the last thing. If you bring us treats on board, we will always upgrade you and give you free drinks.

01:05:41

Treats. Like if someone brings us like a bag of chocolate or someone brought me like a reusable

01:05:47

Starbucks cup with like a face wipe in it, I was like, you can have whatever you want. That's hilarious.

01:05:53

Yeah. Cause it's like a little. It's just nice. Cause the way you do it too, like you fly, then you lay over the, or you might like do two flights in a day, right?

01:06:02

Four flights in a day. We'll be stuck on an airplane for 18 hours and you don't get to get off to have a hot meal. You get the snacks you brought in your lunchbox for four days in a row.

01:06:10

So when someone brings something on like that, it's like life changing. I'm just going to come in with a hot plate. I got fresh steaks going.

01:06:17

Who wants medium rare? Like, sir, you can't have that on a plane. The flight attendants like, no, let him stay.

01:06:23

He's got baked potatoes. I had someone one time bring Chick -fil -A nuggets. And when I say we all were like, almost closely wanting to worship that person.

01:06:31

I was like, all right, guys, we got to calm down. We're going to think that we're like, it's all

01:06:36

Chuck with some Chick -fil -A nuggets. Oh man. That was as close to heaven as you can get. Right? Yeah.

01:06:42

Especially if you're living off peanuts and snacks in your lunchbox. Oh, you're like a, like a survival man or something.

01:06:51

There you go. All right. Let's let's put bookends on this. We're going to play a little game as we head out.

01:06:58

For those of you who have stuck in, we've got a fun one. And this little song is going to explain it to us.

01:07:07

Welcome back to another episode of Pastor or Motivational Speaker. Today, Charity will be read random quotes.

01:07:15

And she must determine if it is a quote from a sermon by Stephen Furtick of Elevation Church or international star and motivational speaker,

01:07:24

Tony Robbins. And here we go. It's going to be awesome.

01:07:30

All right, here we go. I've got nine of them right here on the pad. And I'm going to read you the quote. And just like the intro said, you have to tell me, is this a quote from a sermon from Stephen Furtick?

01:07:40

He's kind of getting a lot of attention on this podcast. I didn't plan it this way. Let's tag him in the news we do after this.

01:07:46

So yeah, I didn't already had that news story before this happened. So is it a quote from a sermon of Stephen Furtick or a line from a motivational speech from Tony Robbins?

01:07:59

And I think most people are familiar with Tony Robbins. Pretty popular. He's known everywhere. Okay, here's the first one.

01:08:04

Ready? We got nine of them. Let's see if you can get the majority of them or all of them. Okay. Transition is where transformation happens.

01:08:12

Sounds churchy already. Does it? Keep going. Wait, is that it? That's it. That's the whole quote.

01:08:18

Say it again. Transition is where transformation happens. I'm going to say that is

01:08:23

Stephen. That's churchy. You got it. All right. Stephen is good. We'll give you a star on that one.

01:08:29

Okay, number two. Your past does not equal your future. I'm going to say that's

01:08:35

Tony. Oh my gosh. He's two for two. You guys, that is Tony. All right. I've sat in a lot of churchy sermons.

01:08:41

Okay. We're testing it. Number three. Identify your problems, but give your power and energy to solutions.

01:08:49

That's Tony. I knew you'd get that one. Three for three. I thought this was going to be harder.

01:08:55

Number four. It's what you practice in private that you will be rewarded for in public.

01:09:01

That's absolutely church. Is it? Yeah. Whoa. It's Tony Robbins.

01:09:07

No. Okay. I got you on that one. What you do in private will be exposed in public.

01:09:13

It's what you practice in private that you will be rewarded for in public. That's Tony Robbins. Oh, that's like, man, I've heard.

01:09:18

I've heard. I've heard pastors say that. Yeah. So, uh, ready? Here's number five.

01:09:24

So you're doing pretty good. You got three out of four so far. Number five. Enjoy the journey because the destination is a mirage.

01:09:31

Oh, what? Okay. It's, um, what's his name? It's either Steven or Tony. That is rough.

01:09:37

So I'm going to have to say Tony. That was Steven Furtick. Oh, no. Wait a minute. You're telling me this from the pulpit, from the pulpit.

01:09:45

This man who said the ending is a mirage. Yeah. I'm a mirage. He also likes rap music.

01:09:51

Okay. Uh, his son's rap music. I mean, I know you probably watched the Superbowl. Oh my gosh.

01:09:59

I saw, I saw a post and someone was like, it took like two seconds for like all these, uh, elder millennials and like generation

01:10:06

X to be like, finally, they got someone cool on there. Not something for these old people. And then they're like, oh, dang.

01:10:12

We're the old people. We are now the Eminem and the Dre. And when I talk about 20 years ago,

01:10:18

I'm not talking about 2002. I'm talking about 92, which is 40 years ago.

01:10:23

That's insanity. Yikes. 2000, 2050 is closer than 1992. Let that sink in.

01:10:29

All right. Number six. Ready? So you're on a run here. You got two wrong. Let's get back on track. All right.

01:10:34

Audacity is not an activity. Audacity is an approach. Tony. Oh no.

01:10:40

That's Steven Furtick too. From the pulpit. Okay. All right. Number seven.

01:10:45

We got three more. Who was the one at this church? The Kardashians? Kind of. Yeah. They started their own church.

01:10:51

Did they? For tax purposes. You said it so nonchalantly.

01:10:59

For tax purposes. I hate myself for knowing that. Look it up.

01:11:04

Oh my gosh. They're going to ruin it for the rest of us. All right. Number seven. The voice you believe will determine the future you experience.

01:11:15

The voice you believe will determine the future you experience. Now, is that something you'd hear in a sermon from Steven or something that Tony might say to a group of people?

01:11:23

I actually don't hate that one. Okay. But I think that's Steven. We got that one right. She's back on track.

01:11:29

All right. We got two more. Okay. Number eight. The reason we struggle with insecurity is because we compare our behind the scenes with everyone else's highlight reel.

01:11:43

That's so cheesy. It's got to be Steven. That one is

01:11:48

Steven. Yeah. I don't like that. You're getting them now. Okay. All right. Last one. Ready? And I think, what do you have? You have one, two, three, four, five.

01:11:57

So you already got the majority. So you're good. This is going for six out of nine. Live life fully when you're here.

01:12:04

I thought you were going to say live, laugh, love. Live, laugh, love. I was like, that's Hobby Lobby. You were right.

01:12:11

That was Hobby Lobby. Live life fully when you are here. Is that Tony Robbins or Steven Furtick?

01:12:17

Steven. Nope. That was Tony Robbins. Dang. Oh, man. That was good though.

01:12:23

So you got, but you did get five out of the nine. So you did get the majority. But I'm outraged by some of those.

01:12:29

Isn't that crazy though? How hard it is sometimes to tell the difference from someone who's supposedly preaching the word of God versus a motivational speaker.

01:12:38

Same thing in a lot of the case. Here's a funny thing. Not funny, but here's something that I, when I was Googling quotes for this, there are multiple pastors that say preacher and motivational speaker.

01:12:50

I didn't even know that. I'm getting like too old or something. I didn't know that. Now you just label it all the same.

01:12:56

I didn't know that either. It's, I guess when I was reading it too, it's so you can do like non -religious events.

01:13:02

You can go to like a corporate business and you could be a motivational speaker with a positive outlook and you, you know, you're not going to cuss or talk about anything.

01:13:10

That's not a PC, you know, crazy. All right. So Charity, tell everyone where they can reach you on social media.

01:13:18

If you want, you don't have to, but if you want them to follow you or check you out or see what you're all about, you got any social media plugs or anything going on in your life?

01:13:25

All social media platforms. It's just my name, Charity Nelms. Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram.

01:13:33

There's a YouTube. There's a TikTok if you find it, but yeah, if you want to follow me, you absolutely can.

01:13:39

If not, no big deal. Could they reach out to you? Do you do anything in your business with fitness for women that are like across the nation?

01:13:47

It's just not in a certain area, right? Everything online. And I help women just that have struggled with their weight, learn healthier habits and really step into a healthy, balanced lifestyle and lose weight in a way that doesn't suck.

01:14:00

Is that your official? It is one of my greatest prides in my business is that when women tell me this was not miserable, this actually felt really good.

01:14:08

And I felt amazing through the journey. So awesome. Heck yeah, man. Usually losing weight really sucks.

01:14:14

Tell me about it. Oh my gosh. Oh, Charity, it was so good to have you here. I'm glad I got to spend some time with my sis.

01:14:20

And talking with you, come back anytime you want. I just feel like I'm blessed that you're my sister.

01:14:31

I love you with my whole heart. And guys will link her up to everything. Go check her out.

01:14:36

Follow her. She's fun person. Thanks for having me. All right, guys. As always, God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Dead Men Walking Podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at deadmenwalkingpodcast at gmail .com.