April 27, 2021 Show with Ernie Springer, Dr. Joel Yeager, & Dr. Daniel O’Roark on “Coronavirus & the Leadership of the Christian Church: A Sacred Trust Broken” (Part 3)

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 27th day of April 2021.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program three men who have written a book that I believe is absolutely vital for every Christian, and perhaps even more specifically, every pastor in the United States and even globally in the English-speaking world, anyway.

I am speaking about the authors of the book, Coronavirus and the Leadership of the Christian Church, A Sacred Trust Broken. And I have all three of the authors, Ernie Springer, founder of All Paths Publications, Dr. Joel Yeager, founder and operator of Heritage Family Health in Newmanstown, Pennsylvania, who is also my new personal physician, and Dr. Daniel O 'Rourke of Ballad CVA Heart Institute in Johnson City, Tennessee.

Welcome to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, gentlemen.

Thank you very much, Chris. Thank you. Great to be here.

And I'm going to give my email address out for our listeners. If they have a question, it's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Let's say you are at odds with your own pastor over how your congregation is handling the coronavirus pandemic, or perhaps you're even a pastor, and you're at odds with some of your fellow elders or your denomination over the way things are being conducted in response to the hysteria associated with this pandemic.

Whatever the case may be, if you are compelled to remain anonymous, we will grant you that request. But if it's just a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Let me be a bit more formal, introducing the three of you individually. First of all, Ernie Springer, it's great to have you back on the program, founder of Old Paths Publications. Why don't you tell our listeners about why you felt the need to bring this book into print?

Well, thank you, Chris, and it's good to be on the program again, responding as we, the doctors...

Well, if anybody wants to get a hold of this book, by the way, Coronavirus and the Leadership of the Christian Church is Sacred, Trustbroken, you can go on Amazon. But you could also go to cvbbs .com, and if they don't have it in stock, they will order it for you.

If you mentioned that you heard about the book on Iron Trumpet and Zion Radio, that's cvbbs .com, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service. And we hope that you get a hold of the book. Dr. Joel Yeager, as I said, he is now my personal physician.

I am so thrilled to have a Christian who is not only a Christian, but also Reformed, and also being very open and honest about the truth in regard to the Coronavirus, and not without risk to his own reputation and his own practice.

In a world of blindly following the left, it seems, whatever their marching orders are, you have people who I am convinced know better that out of fear, or out of a desire to be more renowned and to be thought more highly of than they ought, they just follow whatever the trend of the day is in regarding this virus.

And I'm so delighted that providentially, I have discovered you and Heritage Family Health. Dr. Yeager is also a diplomat of the American Board of Family Medicine, and a contributor to the Second Opinion Project.

Tell us about Heritage Family Health in Newmanstown, Pennsylvania.

Well, thanks, Chris. Heritage Family Health is several months on a previous office. And from most office models, we don't participate with any insurance companies. We're free to engage in the physicians designed to be before it was cut.

I could say experiment, although it's actually, I would not go back to the traditional model. Pennsylvania, just north of Amish country, my cornfield Amish patients, innovated 100 plus workers just a few steps out.

Lunch yesterday, and this lady said, I've been in this industry for 19 years, like yours and all of my travels across.

Yes, when I was there for my fairly recent examination, it was the first time I was ever at a doctor's office where Amish folk were coming in and out. That was definitely interesting to see. And as I did the last time, during a part two of our discussion on this book, I have to do a little bit of damage control.

When you described your offices as being in a restored barn, I don't want them to get the idea that this is a falling down, ranshackled building that still has the odor of manure in it. It is a very pristine and very much beautifully renovated barn.

And the only reason you would ever know it was a barn at one time is because of the shape of the structure. Obvious, it reveals that it was a barn, but it's a beautiful, beautiful, immaculate facility.

Well, thank you, Chris.

And state of the art and high tech. And such a joy and such a refreshing, pleasant atmosphere to walk into a doctor's office where nobody's wearing masks and you're not reprimanded because your mask isn't entirely covering your nose.

Which was my last experience at a doctor's office, where even though I informed them, you know, I just had congestive heart failure and I'm not really breathing well with this mask covering my nose. Oh, isn't that special?

But can you put it up over your nose, please? They didn't care.

Yeah, so unfortunate.

And the website is HeritageFamilyHealth .org. HeritageFamilyHealth .org. And hopefully we'll remember to repeat that information later. And Dr. Daniel O 'Rourke, he is with Ballard CVA Heart Institute in Johnson City, Tennessee.

He's a diplomat of the American Osteopathic Board of Internal Medicine and Cardiology and a diplomat of the Certification Board of Nuclear Cardiology and a diplomat of the National Board of Echocardiology and serves as a fellow of the American College of Cardiology.

Why don't you tell us something about that unique field of medicine that you practice, Dr. O 'Rourke?

Yes, thank you, Chris. I've been a cardiologist 87.

And the website for that practice is BallardHealth .org. B-A-L-L-A-D Health .org for those of you who live in the Johnson City, Tennessee area. And by the way, let me one more time give a plug to Heritage Family Health in Newmanstown, Pennsylvania.

It's well worth the drive, folks, if you have to travel a long distance, if you live in Pennsylvania or Maryland or somewhere fairly close to Pennsylvania. It took me an hour to get there exactly. It was like kind of interesting how it was to the second an hour to pull into the parking lot.

And it was a beautiful drive because of the country atmosphere and scenery. And if you drive an hour or more to things that you may think are important, like getting a sale on some item that you want to buy or whatever it is else that you want to do recreationally, if you're going to a stadium or arena to see your favorite sporting event and you're driving an hour or more when it comes to your health, I think you should be willing to at least drive an hour to get to where you're going if indeed it is a facility that is highly recommended.

And I cannot sing enough praises about Heritage Family Health. Well, this is to remind our listeners, this is part three of our discussion on this subject of the coronavirus. And I wanted to basically cover some ground that we may not have focused on long enough the last time.

Ernie, now more than a year, churches are not only moving forward with far less restrictions, but they are unrepentant for their lockdowns and masking. But worse yet, many of them are self-congratulatory, praising the wise actions of the elders and thanking God for his blessing and protecting their churches from a health perspective.

Nothing, however, of the spiritual detriment done to the church body. Can you give your comments on that, please?

Yes, maybe just out of, it may come off as really nothing coming out. But on one hand, there are members who could be contrary to God's word.

Well, there are many pastors and churches that not only do not feel a need or believe they have a need to repent of anything or ask forgiveness for anything, they believe that people with the mindset that we have on this program today, we are the ones in sin.

We're the ones that need to repent. We're the ones that flaunted our personal peccadilloes in the sight of the masses who have had their safety and their lives put at jeopardy. How do you respond to that?

And we could have all of you respond to that. Dr. Yeager, you want to start?

Yes, that's unfortunately a critique, I guess, that runs fairly deep, even for people who choose not to be vaccinated, people who choose not to wear a mask. I guess my first thought, pandemic disappointments, I would say.

And that's, you know, I'd have to say an intellectual culture to be noble, like to study the scriptures, we're called to study the times and see what is, in fact, of people, both in culture, as well as in the terms of how one does arrive, the truth out there and let people sort out.

People have to make a decision. What is it?

And Dr. O 'Rourke?

Yes, Chris, there are many ways we can approach this, the way we do, make reference to, basically, that tells us that Jesus recognized that, again, I just think the actions of people focus on improper and all the other areas where.

Now, when we come back from our first break, I'd like, especially the doctors, Dr. Yeager and Dr. O 'Rourke, to comment on the fact that there are many who would be of our mindset that a lot of hysteria is being spread over the pandemic that involves gross exaggeration and downright lies and deception.

But there are scientists out there on our side here who would not only say that it is ridiculous to be walking around with a mask everywhere you go, even outside, but they would say that it is harmful.

It's not just a neutral area that is silly or overkill or a sign of hypochondria or that kind of thing. It is something that is actually, maybe even seriously harmful to one's own health. So we will have you comment on that when we come back.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air, with a question, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Always remember to give us your first name at least. Your city and state and your country of residence.

Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. My friend, Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are headed down to Atlanta, Georgia, once again for the G3 conference. This year's G3 will be held Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme, Christ is supreme over all.

I'll be joined by over 20 other speakers and musicians to lead in the worship of God through preaching, teaching, and singing, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Conrad M. Bayway, Daryl Bernard Harrison, and Virgil Walker.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Chris Arnson and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G321. This is James White reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio in the search bar.

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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Bhanu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through. In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well. He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness and the beauty in what God has designed and he has erupted into praise.

In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him. When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you.

And we want to thank here Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bhanu Gadi, for renewing his annual sponsorship of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Thank you so much, Dr. Gadi, for viewing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio so highly that you are using a considerable portion of your income to help keep us on the air.

And we're looking forward to Dr. Gadi returning to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. He is on the same page with our guest today, very opposed to the nonsensical point to which people are wearing masks and being forced to wear masks.

And he's also against the current vaccines being pushed for the coronavirus. And we'll get to that area a little later today with our guests on the program. But if you could, Dr. Yeager, perhaps we'll start with you, and then we'll go to Dr. O 'Rourke.

And then if Ernie, you have anything to throw in there. As I was saying before, there are some people, a minority of voices in the media for sure, who say not only is it silly or stupid or moronic to be insisting that people be walking around even on a beautiful, gorgeous spring day with a mask on, or even exercising outside with a mask on, or involved in athletic competition with a mask on outside, even though that may be silly and crazy, there are some saying, this is really bad, this is dangerous.

Would you doctors agree with that?

Yes, I would. Yeah, I think we probably all saw the CDC release today that it vaccinated, it's now dangerous. Authors actually had shared by email, which is a little bit different from a typical ideas.

Journals have suppressed truth or have even published things. Dr. O 'Rourke will be interested to know a cardiologist from Stanford. It's called face masks in the COVID -19 era. Read from a list because there's a wonderful table, which just separated into physio, carbon dioxide level breathing, fine and pH, acidosis, toxicity, inflammation, increase in stress, activation of the flight or fight stress response, fear, mood disturbances.

I've certainly encountered many of these in my patients. Insomnia, fatigue, many patients who need it saying they feel foggy brain and can't think predisposition, anxiety, depression, high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, accelerating the aging process, the ongoing effects.

And Dr. O 'Rourke, do you have anything to add?

Yes, undesirable side effects, everyday use, and create a potential hazard for your release.

One thing that's baffling to me is why is there such a variety of voices saying completely different things from those that identify with the quote, quote, scientific community? You know, you see these people on television.

I mean, you see Dr. Fauci ad nauseam infinitum, pushing the masks after also previously on 60 minutes, no less. Telling people it's silly for anybody to be walking around wearing a mask. Now it's the exact opposite.

Now he wants you to wear two masks. What's with this? I mean, there are people who are upset with me doing programs like this, people who are even theologically in agreement with me, who they are just convinced by the people that they choose to agree with that they hear on television and read in magazines, newspapers, and on the internet.

They have their own scientists that they prefer to listen to for no apparent reason at all, why they would prefer listening to those folks as opposed to someone like you. And I have told them I'd be more readily believing people who are actually putting their careers in some way at risk by by telling the world what they believe the truth to be, not somebody who's just in lockstep with everybody in the leftist regime.

But going back to you, Dr. Yeager, why do you think there's so many different voices in the so-called scientific community saying different things, polar opposite things?

Right, great. The things these days are employed, if you don't speak the narrative that's given you from the top down, if you begin to question or push back, you may very well get... You know, I always tell people, come and spend a week, and when they spend a week, I always hesitate to speak negatively about a colleague.

Dr. Fauci is, of course, you know, a trained physician. On the other hand, Dr. O 'Rourke and myself have been laying here for many years, 16 months. And so what I'm being told, the clinical experience is 12 months.

And then, you know, I think another thought would be from a leadership standpoint, I think, you know, if you study leadership, you know, media has done regurgitate what... So that's why just every day I trust that they've never thought about it.

It's like, hmm, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And Dr. O 'Rourke?

And of course...

Yeah, and as far as people having their careers at risk, if they go against the status quo in the left on this issue, they're not being forced to go on television and write things on the internet that support that mask wearing and pro-vaccine agenda.

They're doing that voluntarily. And one of them that is kind of puzzling, more than kind of, Dr. Mark Siegel, who is a frequent guest on one of my favorite TV shows, Tucker Carlson, and he's also on other Fox News programs.

He's very opposed to mandates and government authoritarianism and all that kind of thing. But he still pushes masks. He still pushes the vaccines. And it makes me wonder, does he know he's telling mistruths combined with the truths he's telling?

Why on earth would he be... What advantage does he have giving false information? I mean, I don't know if any of you have any idea why that would be, when he's agreeing, in part, with many conservatives on these issues.

Anybody have anything to say, chime in on anything in that regard? I guess not.

I guess in their own version.

It's just really frustrating. We have to go to our midway break. And one of the things that I want to make sure we cover with adequate time is the vaccines being promoted. When we come back, we'll have Dr. Yeager start that discussion.

And eventually, I want to get your reactions to the madness that's going on in Canada with Pastor Coates, who was arrested. I interviewed, not long ago, his attorney when he was still in jail. In fact, I believe I interviewed him on the very day that he was released from jail for not shutting down the congregation where he pastors in Canada.

But I'd like you all to respond to that. But first, I want Dr. Yeager first, and then Dr. O 'Rourke to have anything to say about the vaccines. It's time for our midway break right now, which, as you know, if you listen to this program regularly, is a bit longer than our other breaks, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break, because the FCC requires of them to localize this program geographically to Lake City, Florida.

So while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. Use this time wisely, please. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you possibly can, so that you can more successfully and more frequently respond to our advertisers, which hopefully will sometimes be patronizing them, buying their products, using their services, visiting their churches, supporting their parachurch organizations.

But when you can't do that, please at least respond to our advertisers with their contact information by thanking them for sponsoring Iron Trip and Iron Radio. That should go a long way to keep our advertisers happy, knowing that their money is well spent, blessing the lives of so many people.

So please thank them if you haven't done so already. And also, of course, send in questions to our guest today on the coronavirus, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States.

We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme, Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Vody Balkam, Joel Beakey and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com. Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October the 2nd at G3 2021. This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005. The publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. You, I have to tell you, one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything. We're in good shape.

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With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally. To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

I'm Bill Sasser, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee. Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God. If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.