October 11, 2023 Show with Jerry Johnson on “Celebrating the 19th Anniversary of ‘Amazing Grace: The History & Theology of Calvinism'”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Opens in Carlisle and Prays for Israel

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 11th day of October, 2023.

And obviously, I am once again urging our listeners to pray for the people of Israel, no matter what your eschatology is, and no matter how you view the nation of Israel in light of biblical prophecy.

Obviously, many Reformed Christians, my fellow Reformed brethren, many of them, if not most, do not believe the nation of Israel that we have today in the Middle East is an answer or fulfillment of biblical prophecy.

But nonetheless, this nation is our closest ally in the Middle East, and the citizens of Israel are being subject to brutally satanic attacks, terrorist attacks by the Palestinians, and so I ask of you, obviously, as brothers and sisters in Christ, to pray for this to come to an end quickly and for the safety and well-being of those citizens in the nation of Israel, and that the Lord would use this tragedy in some way to bring about the salvation of many on both sides of this conflict.

The Origins of Amazing Grace and Jerry Johnson’s Journey to Calvinism

But today, we have on the program a returning guest, one of my favorite returning guests on the program, my old friend Jerry Johnson, who is a Reformed Christian apologist and documentarian, and today we are going to be celebrating the 19th anniversary of the documentary Amazing Grace, the History and Theology of Calvinism, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Jerry Johnson.

Thank you, Chris. It's good to be here, brother.

It's great to have you on the program. So tell us about how this documentary, which was launched 19 years ago, how this even became a thought in your head to do this. I mean, it's not rocket science to figure out that somebody who is a lover of Calvinism or also nicknamed Reformed Theology, the doctrines of grace, the doctrines of sovereign grace, why you would want to create a documentary, but what did you see as being lacking in the resources that Reformed Christians already had that made you think this documentary was necessary?

All right. Well, let me start out by saying this. I had many Arminians after the documentary was produced ask me why I didn't have any Arminians on the documentary, and this really goes to the issue of what you just asked.

The reason I did it was if I would have put them on, my only reason to put them on would have been to tear them down, and I wasn't going to lie to them and tell them, you know, yeah, we're going to make it, you know, present both sides.

And I was talking with Robert Raymond, Dr. Robert Raymond, and he said, you know, Arminianism has so many, so many advocates, so much material out there. There's not much for Calvinists. Around 1997 is when I got the idea to do it.

Now, I had two friends that were involved in video production. One was a guy, and he wasn't really well known. He was good. His name was Brian Barkley at New Liberty Video, and the other was Eric Holmberg, and Eric and I had really kind of been closer.

So I went to him first with the idea of doing the video, and he said, I'm not kidding. He said to me, nobody would ever watch that. And I said, okay, nobody would ever watch it. I still have this urge to make it.

And it took him about five years before he said, okay, let's do it. And so what I wanted to do, because I was a senior writer. Now, to let you know, I write more like a technical journal. Eric is the more artsy one, and I wrote the script, and I wrote the script, and Eric kind of polished it up and put it in words at that point that made sense that a lot of people could understand.

So I really think we work good together. And I kind of took them through my journey when I was an Arminian with a brain full of mush. I, when I started studying these issues out, and I'll tell you about that real quick, my dogs just came into the room.

Yeah, your dogs are obviously Arminian because they're trying to disrupt the interview here.

Shutting the door, they keep nudging it open. So a UPS truck came by and they started barking. So I think the UPS truck has left now. But anyway, I wanted to take people through my journey. I'll tell you how my journey started.

There was a guy that wrote a book, and I believe his name was Randall Self. And I was a Southern Baptist at the time. And I repented of that. All right, my dogs. All right, thank you, Annie. I love you too.

Now get down. Get down. All right. Anyway, there was a guy that wrote a book called Southern Baptist and the Doctrine of Election. I believe his name was Ralph Self. And my pastor, my senior pastor at the time, a guy named Larry Marlin, great guy.

He was one that if he was confronted with the scriptures, he would change his viewpoint immediately. And we went out to lunch. And I can remember I was sitting there and I said to him, hey, Larry, what do you know about total depravity?

And he goes, oh, that's that Calvinist stuff. You don't want anything to do with that. And he painted the typical caricature of Calvinism, you know, that there are some that want to be saved. God will have nothing to do with it.

And there are other people that don't want to be saved. But God drags them kicking a screening into the kingdom. And Larry and I had lunch. And he said this. And we both agreed we didn't want to be Calvinist.

Well, we got back to the church and got back to his office. And there were two copies for some reason, three copies of that book sitting on Larry's desk. And I thought it was funny. We had just talked about it.

And I asked Larry, I said, do you mind if I take one? And he goes, no, go ahead. So I took it home. And it was probably about nine o 'clock in the evening. Larry called me up and he said, have you read any of that book?

And I said, yeah, I'm about two thirds of the way through it. And he goes, well, I'm about halfway through.

It. What's your opinion? You're talking about Southern Baptist and the Doctrine of Election. By the way, that was that was written by Bob Self, Robert Self, who I actually I actually know him personally.

And he was an interim pastor for the church where I was formerly a member. Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick, New York.

Temporary. Well, anyway, Larry and I had read that book. I'm asking him, what do you think? He's asking me, what do I think? Neither of us wants to say anything. And finally, I blurted out to him, Larry, I think I'm a Calvinist.

And he goes, yeah, me too. So that that started me on my journey. Now, let me tell you about this. Robert Self called up Nicene Council, the apologetics group at one point, and he wanted to order a copy of the Mason Grace.

And when he said his name, I said, you're not the same guy that wrote Southern Baptist and the Doctrine of Election. And he said, well, I'm guilty. And I told him that whole story. And he goes, wow, that is unbelievable.

Oh, that is how we got started in it. And then, of course, I read a whole bunch of stuff. And then I read numerous systematic theologies by Charles Hodge, by A .H. Hodge, by Lewis Burkoff, by Robert Raymond.

In fact, his book, by the way, at least I found it to be one of the best. His book, A New Systematic Theology, of the Christian faith. If your readers or your listeners have a chance, get that book.

And read it. That was a great book. By the way, I want to let our listeners know some of the very prestigious names who contributed to this documentary, the late Dr. R .C. Sproul, the late Dr. D. James Kennedy, Dr. George Grant, who just recently told me he wants to return to the program for another interview.

I'm looking forward to that. My friend, Dr. Tom Askell, my friend, Dr. Tom Nettles, Dr. Roger Schultz, a former pastor of the church where I am a member right now, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Walt Chantry, the late Walt Chantry, who was the pastor of my church for 40 years.

That was before I arrived in Pennsylvania, not long before my joining that church. My very dear friend, who may have been interviewed, it's kind of a neck-and-neck situation between him and Phil Johnson of Grace to You Ministries, but Dr. Joe Moorcraft has been interviewed on this program, I think, just as many times as the man who formerly held the position as the most interviewed guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Phil Johnson.

And by the way, Joe Moorcraft is returning to my program a week from this Friday. And I don't know the topic yet, but we will announce that. Dr. Ken Talbot, I should say the late Dr. Ken Talbot, and Pastor Walter Bowie and others.

So that's a very impressive lineup. And how did you come to select these specific people to be a part of this documentary?

You know, I don't know if I really can answer that. I wanted to get R .C. Sproul. That was the top one. And I wanted to get Dr. G. James Kennedy. But let me say this. I didn't think the Kennedy interview would be all that good.

Because I had seen his radio program or his television program. I kind of felt he was a milk-toasty guy at most. We went down there to interview him, myself and a guy named James Gillette, because we wrote him and he wrote us back.

And bless his heart, the guy didn't use a computer. So everything was a letter.

Neither does John MacArthur and neither did R .C. Sproul.

Really? Yeah. No, R .C. Sproul didn't either. And what happened was we flew down to, what is it, Fort Lauderdale to interview Dr. Kennedy. And I thought the guy might give us 20 minutes. And we started, we sat down to do the interview.

And I didn't ask him question one. I thought I'd ask him questions about evangelism since he wrote Evangelism Explosion. But I had given him all of the questions. And he goes, wait a minute, what happened to question number one?

So I was like, all right. An hour and a half later, the guy answered everything. And let me tell you, that guy was such a professional. I would ask him a question and he would start answering it. And then he would go down to a rabbit trail and he goes, no, don't use that.

Let me go back and do it. He would start all over, say everything right up to the point where he went down the rabbit trail and then keep going. I was thoroughly impressed. Yeah. I always loved Dr. Kennedy.

Yeah. Let me also tell your listeners this. I would quote a Bible verse to him. He would say it back to me in Greek. And I was sitting there, I bet my mouth was open half the time. But if you watch the video, and by the way, it's free on YouTube.

You could just type in Amazing Grace, the History of Theology of Calvinism, and it'll come up. But if you notice the point where Kennedy is talking about the word all, all doesn't always mean all. Yes, that was a.

Classic excerpt from that documentary because it was kind of humorous as well.

Well, it was. And I was, you couldn't see me on camera. I had asked the question and he started answering. And if you see him smile at one point, it was all because I was sitting there laughing. I was sitting there laughing.

I couldn't believe it. So I did do all the interviews except for the ones with Dr. Grant and the ones with Steve, I don't even remember his last name.

Mansfield.

Yeah, Steve Mansfield. I'm sorry. That was one at the time he was Eric's pastor, and Eric wanted to have him on there. So that's how he got on there.

Eric Holmberg, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the Soundness of the Documentary

Yeah, well, you know, we already have a question that has come in from an anonymous listener. We might as well tackle this before we go any further. The anonymous listener says, your guest mentioned Eric Holmberg as being a part of this documentary.

Do you not know that he has become a full blown Roman Catholic? Well, he actually has not become a full blown Roman Catholic. He has become an apostate, but he has entered into the Eastern Orthodox Church.

And that was just very recently, years after, nearly 19 years after the creation of this documentary. Now, do you have any words that you want to offer not only to this listener, but those that already have known this about Eric, or may be discovering it right now, when they are now perhaps reconsidering making use of this phenomenal documentary that has been used by God to draw many people into embracing the doctrines of sovereign grace.

And I actually believe it is the finest defense of the doctrines of sovereign grace that I've ever seen or heard. But there are some that might say, well, since Eric is the narrator, and he has become an apostate, we shouldn't even make use of this.

How do you respond to that kind of thinking?

Well, you know what, I'm going to say this, and I'm not saying this about Eric, because I've known Eric for over 20 years. God can even speak through the mouth of a jackass. So even if Eric went into the Greek Orthodox Church, which he did, the theology is still sound.

You mean the theology of the documentary?

Yes. I wrote most of it. Eric, there were a couple of, I called them Eric-isms, and now I will tell you this, since I've known Eric, he was blown around by every wind of doctrine all the time, it seemed like.

I was battling with him and trying to bring him back into the fold. I know a lot of times, I mean, when I first met him, he was a charismatic and a word-faith movement church. Then he became a Pentecostal.

Then he became a Southern Baptist. Then he became independent Baptist. Then he became a charismatic Calvinist. Then he became, he was actually a member of George Grant's church at one time. And, you know, he would talk to me about how Roman Catholics are Christians, and I would tell him, Eric, I'm not saying they're not.

I'm not saying you haven't met the few that really believe in double imputation. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is, if they follow the Roman Catholic view of salvation, of justification, then they're not.

Right. And that is the dogmatic view that the Council of Trent, since forth, that works, our deeds cooperate with not only the deeds of Christ, but from the treasury of merit, from Mary and the saints, all combined together.

And that is damning, according to the scriptures, according to the Apostle Paul, that kind of thinking, and his letter to the church at Galatia makes it clear that this kind of thinking is damnable.

Yeah, and I would agree. And, you know, I don't know why Eric did that. I really don't. The only thing I could tell you is, keep him in your prayers. Lord willing, he'll return back to.

The folk. Right. And by the way, Eric, if you are listening, when I say that you're an apostate, I'm not trying to be cruel, but the Eastern Orthodox Church minces no words in their view towards heirs of the Reformation.

They pronounce anathemas on us because we, even just over the issue of the—what's the word I'm looking for ?—the veneration, the veneration of icons, since we view that as idolatry, and we view that as worshiping idols, even though they swear that they are not worshiping these artifacts and images, even though everything that they do under the guise of veneration is worship, no matter what they say, there is no love lost between the Eastern Orthodoxy and their attitude towards Protestants.

So this is not like some kind of one-way street where Protestants are bashing Eastern Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox do not have any fond view of the Protestant Reformation or its heirs. So I just wanted.

To get that out of the way. Yeah, and let me say this, brother, in my own studies, and I'm nowhere an expert on Eastern Orthodox, but my assessment of what I've seen so far is the Eastern Orthodox grab onto the Galatian heresy, the Judaizer heresy, and they have no Reformation to straighten them.

Out. Not at all. That's right. And we do plan to have Jason Wallace back on the program, by the way, who is the pastor of Christ Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah, who created the documentary, The Failure of Eastern Orthodoxy.

He's coming back on, and he's going to be speaking about an Eastern Orthodox bishop who, shortly after the Protestant Reformation, came to endorse and embrace and teach some of the core teachings of the Reformation.

So that may be an eye-opener to many people in and out of the Eastern Orthodox religion. Yeah, when I was researching the video,.

I read Dr. R .C. Sproul's book, The Holiness of God, and he had a quote in there that I believe is in the Amazing Grace documentary, and I'm going to try to say it back to you without it in front of me, without trying to slaughter it, so bear with me.

But he said, he said, church history is not the rule, but it is a guide, and that's something we need to remember. It's not the rule. It is the guide. If you come across a passage of scripture that nobody else has had in 2 ,000 years or has been championed by a universally recognized heretic, chances are pretty good you better abandon your interpretation.

And I thought that was a great quote and a great understanding of church history. I'm one that I have a high view of church history, but I don't believe the early church fathers were infallible. I don't believe the people today are infallible.

There are things I disagree with John Calvin on. There's a lot more I disagree with Martin Luther on, but I believe that they got the essentials correct. That's right. And.

Total Depravity and the Bondage of the Human Will

We're going to our first commercial break. If you have a question for Jerry Johnson, not only on the documentary, but perhaps even on the issue of the theology of Calvinism itself, a .k .a. reformed theology, a .k .a. the doctrines of grace, a .k .a. the doctrines of sovereign grace, a .k .a. the doctrines of free grace, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jerry Johnson right.

After these messages. Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's word in those smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the word of God and is built upon sound doctrine, much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible.

Hi there. My name is Jordan Tew, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House. Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources. Our quarterly curriculum is titled the Baptist Expositor, and for good reason.

We are Baptist, and we exegete the scriptures. If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the word of God, I invite you, go to our website, download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.

May God bless you.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program. The SecureComm Group provides the highest level of security, close-circuit television, access control, and communication systems for Manhattan's top residential buildings, as well as churches, commercial properties, municipalities, and more.

We custom install exactly what you need to protect yourself, including digital recording, off-site viewing, and connectivity from most smart devices. From simple code-activated systems to the latest technology using facial recognition, the SecureComm Group has it.

We also provide the Intercom and IP telephone systems. In addition, we provide superior networking platforms. We'll create, maintain, and secure your local network. Whether it's a Wi-Fi or hardwire network, we'll implement the latest secured firewall, endpoint solutions, and cloud backup.

I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners and their associates. For more details on how the SecureComm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

That's 718 -353 -3355. Or visit securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com. This is Brian McLaughlin of the Advertisers to keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.

When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Dr. Joe Moorcraft, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia,.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com and co-founder of New York Apologetics, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Tim.

Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Eli Ayala, founder of Revealed Apologetics and staff member with the Historical Bible Society,.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi,.

President of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina, and the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida,.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart? Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place.

Your order. Puritan Reformed is a Bible-believing, kingdom-building, devil-fighting church. We're devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone. Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image-bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea. We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt Christ.

This is Pastor David Reis of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona. Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth. Puritan Reformed Church. Believe.

Build. Fight. PuritanPHX .com.

And the Gemological Institute of America. For the perfect custom-designed engagement ring or any one-of-a-kind piece of jewelry created exactly according to your imagination and specifications, Royal Diadem Jewelers has you covered.

No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step-by-step through every stage of the process and even hold a high internet virtual visit using state-of-the-art jewelry design technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs. They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you. From rough design to digital model, to photo-realistic image, to wax prototype model, to the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes, making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your expectations. Visit RoyalDiadem .com. That's RoyalDiadem .com today. Sterling Vanderwercker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner and manager, Brian Wilson, and the entire family thank you all for listening to, praying for, and supporting the work of Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio. And it just so happens providentially that my guest today, Jerry Johnson,.

Is a new customer of RoyalDiadem .com and just purchased a birthday gift for his wife, Tracy. And Jerry, why don't you tell our listeners about your experience with RoyalDiadem .com.

All right. Good deal. I just had it pulled up. I'll make it as quick as possible. I came in to my office and I pulled up Facebook and my wife loved it. And we did everything online. I cannot recommend them enough.

Andrea was fantastic and they did a real good job. So if you guys are listening, if Sterling is listening,.

She is very happy with the ring. Praise God. Well, there you have it, folks. And as I've been saying for weeks now, perhaps even a couple of months at least, RoyalDiadem .com is giving Iron Sharpens Iron Radio 100 of the profits from any sale to an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, as long as that listener mentions Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and Sterling Vandewerker, the owner of RoyalDiadem .com, just informed me today that the check is being sent out tomorrow for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio's portion of that sale, which is 100 of the profits.

And so thank you so much, Jerry, for picking RoyalDiadem .com for that very important gift for your wife. And for anyone listening, please, if you have any intention to purchase jewelry for yourself or someone you love, go to RoyalDiadem .com soon.

Whether you're purchasing something they already have in stock, as Jerry did for his wife, or if you're having something custom designed, please go to RoyalDiadem .com and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio very soon, because we have no idea when they're going to end this wonderful offer to us where we receive 100 of the profits.

That's RoyalDiadem .com. Don't forget to mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back to discuss this amazing documentary, Amazing Grace, the History and Theology of Calvinism. If you have a question for Jerry Johnson, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. For our listeners who may be outside of the orbit of Reformed theology, because I do have listeners that are not Calvinists or Reformed Christians, or perhaps you're just new to not only Christianity itself, but perhaps you're new to embracing Reformed theology, and you are having a hard time explaining this, this system of theology, which we believe to be biblical, of course, to others who either have never heard of it or reject it.

What would you say, Jerry, are some of the primary ways in which Calvinism differs from all of its theological rivals, whether it be those in the Church of Rome, Eastern Orthodoxy, or what appears to be the majority of evangelical Protestantism in our day and age?

That was not always the case. Calvinism at one time was dominant amongst evangelical Protestants, but we are definitely today in the 21st century a tiny minority, a growing minority, but nonetheless I believe we are a minority.

Tell us about, in your opinion, what are some of the pillar reasons that there is a difference that we.

Believe, obviously, to be biblical? Well, I would say, for me at least, because that's all I can talk about, is what I experienced. I had started reading about Calvinism, and I was at the house of a guy that was an elder at the PCA Church in Birmingham.

I can't remember what his name is.

Oh, Harry Reid?

No, I'm sorry. I was at an elder's house. His name was Louis Henderson.

Okay.

But what is the name of the church in Birmingham? Right now... Briarwood. Briarwood.

Yes.

Briarwood PCA.

Yes, yes, and that's where the late Harry Reid was most recently the pastor there. He had a predecessor whose name escapes me right now, also a well-known man.

This was a ruling elder, and I was over at his house. I was going to stay the night there. I did, and Louis had had a hernia operation, and he liked having me stay the night because then we could just sit around in the evening time and talk theology.

He goes at one point, and this is what sparked that question to my friend Larry Marlin that I said before we saw Robert Self's book. What sparked my question was he said, you do believe in total depravity, and I was like, I was saying it to myself.

I don't know what that means, but I should believe in it. It sounds like I should, and that's the question I asked Larry. What is total depravity, and that's when he went into his diatribe about Calvinism.

Now, Larry ultimately became a Calvinist when I did, but I saw in my own mind and in the scriptures, you have to understand man's fallen state, and that was the thing that I guess I had never done before, and I will tell you this with a bit of a story starting out.

I had this guy. This was probably around 2001, 2002. He was a Southern Baptist pastor in Talladega, Alabama, and he was a real nice guy. In fact, one of the loveliest men I had ever spoken with, and he really loved the Lord, and he said to me, I perceive that you are a Calvinist.

Can you tell me what Calvinism means? I said to him, I'm not going to say his name because I don't have permission, but I will say his first name because I'm sure he's gone from that church now, or at least I hope he is.

I don't want to get him in trouble, but I said, Alan, I will talk with you, but we have to set some ground rules first, and he said he looked kind of surprised that he said ground rules, and I said, yeah, open up your Bible to Romans 3, 10, and 11, and I want you to read that out loud.

Now, I'm going to read that to you real quick.

Give me a chance to look it up. And while you're looking up, I'm going to repeat our email address if you'd like to join us with a question of your own. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are in a non-reformed or non-Calvinist church.

You're starting to rethink the theology that you are being taught in your own church, and perhaps you are considering the doctrines of sovereign grace or Calvinism, and you don't want to draw attention to your identity at this point.

We fully understand that, and there are similar reasons why someone might want to remain anonymous. We will grant your request, and so you can send in a question anonymously. But please, if it's just a general question, give us the first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

So, as you.

Were saying. All right. I'm going to read from the New King James Version. I figure if it was good.

Enough for Paul, it's good enough for me. Let's not forget the NASB sponsored this program,.

But anyway. You might say that every time. So, anyway, I had Alan open up to Romans 3 .10 and 11, and I said, I'm going to ask you a question, and I want you to seriously answer it. I don't want you to give me the answer that you think I'm looking for.

What I want you to do is seriously answer the question. And he goes, okay. What is the question? And the question was, do you believe there is a point in time that you were honestly seeking after God?

And without missing a beat, he said, yes. And I said, now read Romans 3 .10 and 11, and I want you to read it out loud. And he read it, and here it goes. As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one, but there is none who understands.

There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside. They have all together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good. No, not one. And I said to him, Alan, are you going to listen to the testimony of scripture or the testimony of your own experience?

Because from my viewpoint, I could honestly say that there seemed to be a point in time where I was looking for God. And here it says, there's no one who does good. No, not one. But your experience tells you, you did good.

And he goes, man, it was like a light had gone off in his head. And I said, you need to listen to the testimony of scripture, not your emotions, not your feelings, nothing other than the scriptures. And then I took him through all the passages that talk about total depravity.

And we're a slave to sin. We're dead in our sins. The very imaginations of our thought are evil continually. And Romans after that gives what I call the anatomy of fallen man. And when you realize that man is dead, man is not drowning in a pool of sin.

Man has already drowned. He is dead. He is at the bottom. He can't hear. He can't respond. He can't do anything unless God resuscitates and regenerates him. And that's where the doctrine of regeneration comes into play.

R .C. Sproul, in that same book, The Holiness of God, said Armenians, and he actually wrote semi-Pelagians because he made them out to be equal, which they are. But he said semi-Pelagians have dead men choosing to be alive.