Chris Peterson Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Guest Introduction and Ministry Context

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth, and Wednesdays, as you know, is a day to talk to guests, writers, authors, pastors, teachers, theologians, and sometimes I have to call in the friend card, a friend who happens to be a pastor and a theologian and a Bible teacher, and so I�m calling in the friend card today.

Chris Peterson. Pastor Chris, welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

Thank you. It�s a great privilege to be here with you.

Now, Chris, you are serving alongside of my brother, Pat Abendroth. That�s correct. How do you get along with him after all these years?

Well, we complement one another. His weaknesses, my strengths, his strengths, my weaknesses. The Lord has brought us together in ministry to further the Gospel. You know, my wife jokingly says I�m kind of a helpmate for him, you know, in the best sense of the term, so I just have appreciated him.

He�s like a spiritual brother to me, for sure.

Well, Chris, it�s interesting to me when I think about complementing one another on an elder board with strengths and weaknesses like we would with our wives at home, strengths and weaknesses. Many, many associate pastors, I don�t know what your formal title is, but you�re not the main preaching pastor.

They start off with good intentions, I think, and then there becomes an undermining, I�m going to take over, I�m going to have people follow me, you�ve got something bad to say about the pastor, come and talk to me.

And Chris, everything I�ve heard from my brother and everything I know about you is the exact opposite, and I know it�s the grace of God in your life, but if you had to talk to some associate pastors and give them a little counsel on how to fit in in terms of the, I don�t want to say hierarchy, because there are no hierarchies in 1 Timothy 3, but what�s a good strategy for other folks as they minister alongside of the one who�s preaching?

Identity in Christ, Roles of Grace, and Humble Ministry

Right. I think ultimately, we�re going to say it�s understanding your identity in Jesus Christ that really has to start there. And that�s obviously going to keep us humble, recognizing that he�s the shepherd of the Church, we�re Jesus Christ, and that�s the priority, so that keeps our hearts in check there.

The other side of things is the role that we have within the Church. So I know that my gifts are enough to compliment, if he preaches from the pulpit, I value what he brings each and every Sunday to feed the flock.

And my children, from the time they�ve been young, you�d say 3, 7, and 8, and grown up now, one�s in their 20s already, praise God that they have ministry, and that�s encouraging me to see that. The other aspect, I think, is authority.

When you look at Scripture, there is a high priority on the place of roles. And I love to call them the �roles of grace� in the unity of God and loving the authority that�s displayed by God in His Church.

God has given us a unique role within the Church, and we love to put that on display because He has graciously saved us. And that keeps a helpful check on the ministry, complimenting one another, but respecting those great gifts.

Well, Chris, that�s an excellent answer. And I want you to know that if you ever get tired of Pat or he fires you, you�ve got a place out here in Massachusetts.

I appreciate that. It�s so fun to be able to hang out with you and your brother around Shepherd�s Conference and other events.

Union with Christ and the Shift from Law-Heart Religion

Now, Chris, the Lord has, through your own study and through preaching and for overseas ministries and missions, has been working in your life specifically with the centrality of who Jesus is and who you are in Christ and union with Him.

I want to talk a little bit about when I first met you early on, because it was almost the opposite. You know, we�re all born with kind of law hearts and we want to do things. And would it be fair to say, and of course I�m not blaming your parents, because I think that would be unfair.

I really love your parents. But in your own heart, like when we first met and I put that fake cigarette in my mouth and you looked at me like... You�re going to read that up. Yes, it�s a classic. Well, what happened was Chris was coming out to Los Angeles and I�m going to go to school at Master�s and Chris knows my brother more than he knows me.

And so Chris came into the house and I had a fake cigarette that had a fake end. The baby powder? Yeah, the baby powder, like I was exhaling. And Chris, you looked like your mouth was going to have to be picked up off the floor.

Absolutely. Pastor Pat�s brother is smoking a cigarette. So tell me what�s happened in your life as you have now seen, by the grace of God, the uniqueness of union of Christ and how has it changed your life and your ministry?

Sure.

I think on one side of things, when we talk about the culture that many of us grew up in, there�s that fundamentalistic culture in which we think of the sin problem as greater on the outside of us than it is within us.

And I think as we begin to study total depravity, we study the scriptures, we begin to recognize the sinful depravity of our own hearts. And that has a healthy sanctifying effect as far as trusting in the how-tos, the list, the principles to try to engender sanctification and growth in our life.

So we end up trusting in the flesh and our list. So there�s that. There�s the culture that we�ve, at least I grew up in. There�s another side of things, too, and I think as I began to study Romans 2 particularly, where Paul underlines the nature of the works of the law written on our hearts, that even from birth we have this propensity to understand the nature of the law of works, which study scripture or biblical theology as it�s entitled.

We begin to see the role that Adam had in the garden in which he was called to obey God and under disobedience he was cursed, and we begin to see that theme of the law of works played out in scripture.

We�ll see it in the statements, �Do this in order to live. And those who disobey are under the curse. In a sense, that�s written on our hearts. That�s part of what it means to be a human being, to be in Adam.

The problem is, Adam couldn�t do it. He failed. Only Christ could fulfill that law of works by perfectly obeying the law and taking the curse, as Galatians 3 reminds us, that He redeemed us from the curse of the law, that no one can be justified by the works of the law.

We recognize that only Christ could do that, but because of our human propensity to understand the works of the law, �Do this to live we fall into the trap of thinking that we�re fallen, that we can somehow keep that, that we can measure up to God by obeying that He will.

We�re disobedient. We realize as we study scripture, the gospel comes to us, the law, Mount Sinai was raised up to help us understand that. Hebrews 12 reminds us that it was a place of fear and trembling.

So by God�s grace, He opens our eyes to see that we can only approach God through Christ, that Christ had to fulfill the works of the law for us, and both its obedience and taking the curse. And we find rest in there.

But having said that, we fall into the trap, as Galatians 3 says, of bewitchment, in which we fall back into the trap of thinking that we can make God happier as a believer, we trust in Christ, so it�s a post-Christ context I�m talking about here.

We fall into the trap of thinking that He�s happy with us when we�re more obedient, and He rejects us, that He�s going to punish us, that all the trials and sufferings in our life are because we�ve been disobedient.

And if we could just correct our lives, if we could find that secret sin and surface that, then maybe the Lord would be happy with us again and would bless us. And that is the trap of the law of works as it�s creeped back into our Christian lives.

You mentioned, they asked me to address that particular issue, it fits in with the karma idea of you do well, you�re blessed, you don�t do well, you�re cursed, and I need to address that particularly.

So I guess in answer to your question, yes, the fundamentalist culture tends to be to live life, to think that way, that we cannot approach God through the works of the law. Adam failed, only Christ can do that.

But it�s something that we all struggle with. And it took understanding Romans too, particularly, and the innate struggle that we have from Adam, answers found in Christ Jesus. So that�s really affected even how I�ve thought of conflict, spouse, restore relationships through the works of the law, rather than understanding the grace of God.

That�s my mission in counseling, to really proclaim Christ, but to help them understand the nature of the works of the law in its proper place.

Romans 2, the Works of the Law, and Justification

Mark Talking to Chris Peterson today, Pastor Chris Peterson, omahabiblechurch .org, if you want to go to the website there. Chris, I pulled my Bible out and looked at Romans 2 when we started the discussion, because I knew we were going to go there.

Chris. Indeed. Mark Isn�t it fascinating when we go, for instance, to Romans 2 .13,. �For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

The knee-jerk response for almost every evangelical is to interpret that verse in what way, and then what way should we, how then should we interpret it rightly?

Chris. Yeah, we almost treat it as just a hypothetical statement. Um, I love to back it up a little bit to verse 6, just it complements that so well. �He will render to each one according to his works, to those who by patience in well-doing.

So it�s endurance, it�s faithfulness, it�s obedience. �In well-doing, good doing, seek for glory and honor and immortality. Um, so we tend to just kind of push that off as just a hypothetical statement, if somebody could do this.

But because Paul roots that in verse 15, the work of the law written on their hearts, he�s arguing that, uh, this is, if you want to talk about the natural state of man, this was man placed into the garden of that, it�s, the core relationship with God was that they were called to, as the creature to the Creator, to obey God perfectly, patiently, and well-doing.

And even their motives are dealt with in verse 7, �to seek for glory and honor and immortality. And the reward that he would give at 7 verse 7 is eternal life. Uh, so, this isn�t just a hypothetical statement, uh, this is a description of man, uh, in his state.

He backed it all up, all the way up, back to the, the garden event, in which he was called to relate to God in this way. Uh, the failure, as you mentioned, where does this, as a Christian, think that I need to approach this principle of the works of the law, which Adam was placed, and Paul�s point is that we can�t approach God through, through this.

Uh, in fact, verse 20 of chapter 3 says, �By the works of the law, no human being will be justified. At face value, it looks like he�s contradicting himself. In one sense, we�re called to be doers of the law, to be justified.

And then he says, we can�t approach God through the works of the law, in chapter 3, verse 20. But when we understand the context, as he�s addressing, uh, the, the high calling of God�s law and, and the, the standard that man has been placed in Adam before God, failed in Adam.

We fell under that we can have it, not through the works of the law.

Marriage, Bitterness, and Mount Sinai versus Mount Zion

Well, Chris, when you�re talking to married couples, and they�re having some kind of struggle, and maybe it�s selfishness, or whatever it might be, relate to us as listeners, because many of us are married, kind of just, you know, give me the no-co-version of this, beat it into my brain.

You bet. Where do I go? How does this make me think, �Oh, that�s the right way to analyze this, so then I can repent of what I�ve been thinking. So glad you asked.

It�s where the rubber meets the road. That Hebrews 12 really opened my eyes. The Hebrew writer addresses Esau, who failed to obtain the grace of God. And he responded out of a heart of bitterness, the text says a root of bitterness, that springs up and causes trouble, and by it, many become defiled.

And then no one is sexually impious. And as I was looking at that text, I thought, �The root of bitterness is directly opposed to the grace of God, and it leads to trouble, defilement, and sexual immorality.

And I was seeing in these relationships, bitterness at the root of a lot of this, the sinful struggles that were going on in these relationships. But as you look at the context, the Hebrew writer says, �You have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire, darkness, gloom, and a tempest.

And he begins to underline the Old Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, Mount Sinai, in contrast to Mount Zion, of which we approach God through grace because of the mediator. And that really opened my eyes to, okay, how do I explain this to a couple who are struggling in their relationship?

I think through the principle of 7 Galatians 3. When I begin to think of my relationship with God that way, that's going to translate into my relationship with others. And that's by, it's a default, because we're image-bearers.

So it would go something like this. I'm looking at Judge Others, it shows that I have the work of the law written in my heart. I understand the nature of the work of the law, it needs to be exacted, and it would look like if she fails me, or he, depending on who the spouse is here, there'd be consequences so that those expectations are met.

Justice is served. Fairness is brought to bear in the relationship. And when they've been faithful, and that's just the principle of the work of the law, and ultimately is with Adam. So my ministry is to help them understand when they're making statements of, �But she did this or �He did that to help them understand that this is the work of the law that's at play here.

We are saying, �I will not accept you. I cannot have a rewarding relationship unless you meet the terms of the law, which I've established by my own expectations. And to help them understand that we can't approach God that way.

When we've failed His law, when we've disobeyed, as 1 John 3, 4 says, sin is lawlessness. We come underneath the curse of the law. And the only way that we can have a relationship with God is if He condescends to us, which He has in Christ, and fulfills the requirements we find by faith, resting in Jesus Christ, and we're, out of His grace, reconciled to God in a loving relationship with Him as a father-child.

And so, really, as they're making comments out of their heart to Mount Sinai, I'm looking for those works of the law statements to flesh out for them that they're living underneath the shadow of Mount Sinai.

And they have forgotten the grace through the Mediator Jesus Christ of Mount Zion that brings hope and restoration. When they grasp that, it turns that relationship into a relationship of service, self-giving, ministry, because they're fulfilled in Christ, who has fulfilled it for them on their behalf, not based upon their efforts to pay one another back, which is just manipulation.

And there's no hope there. It's hopeless. It may work for a time until we fulfill those expectations again. And that principle can be applied from members within the body, to parents, children, children to parents.

It's amazing how practical it is.

Christ's Supremacy, Sufficiency, and Practical Help for Christians

Chris, excellent answer and response at a very practical level. It's true even for a believer who is married to an unbeliever. Aren't they able, because of who they are in Christ, to even have joy? Can't they have a joy-filled life?

Yes, many pains, many difficulties. It would be very hard to live with an unbeliever, but there can still be joy as a fruit from what the Spirit does through Christ and in Christ, right?

Exactly, because they've been united with Christ by His grace through faith. They have everything that they need in Jesus. That's why, when you read the epistles, it amazed me that before Paul or Peter would deal with the issues, the sin issues that need to be surfaced, the divisions in the Corinthian church, Galatians, the issues of fruitfulness, the lack of fruitfulness in Galatians chapter 5, Colossians chapter 2, he starts with the supremacy and sufficiency of what they have in Jesus Christ.

It's as if we need to be reminded of who we are in Christ and all that we have in Him, which frees us then from trying to find our identity, again, in the works of the law, based on what I do or what my spouse does.

And in this situation, he's describing, yes, we're free to serve. Our spouse becomes a mission field to proclaim the glory of Jesus Christ, because having said that, like a worn record, immediate knee-jerk reaction, even in our dispositions towards one another.

I don't even sometimes think about it. I'm not going, oh, I'm responding in the works of the law here as I'm frustrated with my child. It's a knee-jerk, it's an attitude that comes across as, I was offended, and this needs to be dealt with in order for me to have a right relationship.

When we remember the gospel, as Paul and Peter keeps reminding us of the gospel and who we are in Christ, it changes things around. We're able to serve and to minister and to promote Jesus Christ rather than use one another to find satisfaction in ourselves.

Helpful Books on Law and Gospel

Talking to Chris Peterson today on No Compromise Radio. Chris, is there a particular book written by an author that is especially helpful for our listeners, or do you need to write that book? I think God's telling me, in light of your pastor's sermon two days ago, to write a book on this subject.

That's funny. That is so funny.

It's a great sermon, by the way. I would highly recommend it. Sufficiency of Scripture. You know, the journey that I took, obviously, reading through the epistles and just seeing this theme of weaving in the gospel, why does he keep threading in the gospel?

It's like we're going to forget it between these two chapters. And I need it, even for the power to put off and put on and live in light of the new man that we are in Christ. So definitely, the epistles help us out if we step back to look at the method that the apostles use as they're writing.

But some helpful books, as far as a foundational level, not necessarily very helpful to the journey that I took. Art of Prophecy by William Perkins really challenged me in light of preaching, in light of the law and gospel.

And ironically, it's not prophecy as we would think about it. It's preaching, as he would describe it. Murrow of Modern Divinity by Edward Fisher was really helpful in light of articulating the law of works and the gospel that is graced by John Flavel.

Again, very helpful. But for a modern-day reader, I found most help in the book Council from the Cross by Dennis Johnson, who leads Fitzpatrick. Now, I think the one aspect that I would love to see is actually his life situations and lay over it, why he's relating flesh without our sinfulness and drives us to the gospel.

Chris, I don't know what Sinclair Ferguson will address, but I saw on pre-order now on Amazon, there's a book by Sinclair Ferguson. I think out in December, January, something about the Murrow is still relevant today or something, the Murrow Controversy, and I thought that would be an excellent book.

Yeah, indeed. He has a three-part, I think, audio you can get online about the Murrow Controversy for those that are interested in that. Chris, we've got about a minute to go or so. Are you happy or sad that the Nebraska Cornhusker Idol has fallen and now people can show up now on time on Sundays or something after Saturday?

Oh, well, it again reminds us, right, it's really spiritual with that, but it reminds us that our ultimate rest and hope is in Christ. But it's going to take some time to rebuild.

Well, I remember when I would, and I'm a University of Nebraska alum, Nebraska would lose, and I would be sick, literally, mentally, for days. And I thought, that's what happens when you worship idols with clay feet.

Absolutely. And then we have an Omaha Bible Conference. I just was there a few weeks ago, and we need to have it on a Saturday when it's an away game, otherwise no one would attend. What does that say for Omaha Bible Church?

I think there are sinners at Omaha Bible Church still.

Yes, well, indeed. It also says that Nebraska doesn't have many sports to follow. That's right.

Now, last question. I've got 20 seconds. Are you going to get into bicycling like Pat? Oh, no. Baseball is my theme. It doesn't quite fit with that. All right. Chris, thanks for being on today. Chris Peterson, pastoring at Omaha Bible Church, Master's Seminary alum and a man who understands the difference between law and gospel.

Thanks, Chris, for being on the radio show today.

Oh, you're welcome. My pleasure. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible-teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life-transforming power of God's Word through verse-by-verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.