Matt Slick Live: February 10, 2025

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live! Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Opening Banter and Show Introduction

Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the show. It's me, Matt Slick. Here's the Matt Slick Live. Today's date is, let's see, February 10th, 2025, for those who are listening on podcasts and want to know when and how and all that kind of stuff that was originally aired.

So if you want to give me a call, please do. The number is 877 -207 -2276. You can do that, and I'd like to hear from you. So I watched a little bit of the Super Bowl yesterday. I'm not a sports guy. And so my wife and I watched it, kind of, if you want to call it that.

What I actually did was I had it on, I was on my phone. And then when the commercials would come on, I did the commercials, I watched the commercials. That's what I do. And so it was tough, but, you know, that's okay.

That's all right. So I'm just going to do a couple of adjustments here. That should be right there. And then this right here, hold on one sec.

There we go.

That should be working. That should be working. Everything should be working right now. All right. So it was interesting. It wasn't a blowout and stuff like that, but at the halftime, who was that guy?

Who was that guy? I said, my wife.

Have you ever heard of him?

She says, no, she's never heard of him. And I said, well, who was he? And she didn't know who he was either. So I thought it was, let me just say this, instead of on people's toes, I thought it was horrible.

I did what? He did four songs or did he just do one? Because it all sounded the same to me.

Maybe I'm just too old, you know. But anyway, there you go. Hey, maybe you can call, you can tell me how wrong I am about stuff, which is fine. I'm one of those weird guys who doesn't watch sports.

I just, I just, it just bores me. It just does.

I got things to do. I'd rather, I'd rather be, you know, it's going to sound odd. I'd rather be doing, working on a priesthood analysis of the Old and New Testament as it relates to Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.

Now, to me, that is a good time. That to me is like, yeah, you know. So if someone said to me, hey, Matt, you want to go to the Super Bowl?

Okay.

Hey, Matt, would you like to, you know, do an analysis on the priesthood systems of the Roman Catholic versus Eastern Orthodox related to the Old Testament priesthood stuff under the Old Covenant and see if it's in the New Testament?

I'd go, whoa.

Now we're talking. Yeah.

So, yeah, I got issues. I admit I got issues. That's so, that's what I'm like. And so I did have some interesting discussions this weekend. I was on Discord and I think it was Friday night. I think it was Saturday night, Friday night.

And we had a really good discussion. I was on for four hours talking to some guys about, let's see how we talk to this. We talked about Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism. We talked about Mary. We talked about salvation.

It was a great discussion. They were polite. I was polite. It would just, it just went well. And we had a good time, you know, and they weren't, they weren't offended and we made jokes and things were fine and we had a good time talking.

And then towards the end, this guy comes in and man, he just came in swinging. And within five minutes, I just left because he was accusatory and interruptive. Just, it was bad and we couldn't have a good conversation.

So that's what that was about and, but it was really good because I try to get these Catholics to think. And this is something I'm thinking about more and more is this issue of brainwashing. Because I think, I'm going to get myself in, nah, who cares?

I think the Catholics in Eastern Orthodoxy are brainwashed. I think they have a cult mind. I do. Because they just believe lies. They don't believe the truth. They don't believe what God's word actually says.

They believe what the church tells them to think. I told these guys that. And that's what I think is going on in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. I just think they're brainwashed just like the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims.

That people just don't really want to believe God's word. They believe what their church tells them, the word that God says. And so when I show them stuff, like for example, I show them exactly the quotes and stuff like this from different groups, you know, like the Catholics and how they say, you attain salvation through faith, baptism, and the observance of the commandments.

What does that mean? That's how you attain it. And I show them exactly in the scripture that contradicts that. You know what they do? They don't care. They just care about their church, because their church is the one true church.

I get so tired of that kind of stuff. Why are people so blind? And I was saying to them, maybe, maybe it's because God hasn't given you the ears to hear and the eyes to see. You know, I was being very polite when I said this to them, but that's my perspective.

Because when I show you what the word of God says, and it's very clear, it's right there. I'm showing it to you. There's what it says, you know. And to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.

And so they, you know, they just don't care. I don't know what it is. I don't know why. So, you know, it's what happens. Anyway, so if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. Let's get to Jermaine from California.

Jermaine, welcome. You're on the air.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and Habitual Sin Versus Struggle

Oh, hi, Matt.

Hey, man, how's it going?

Oh, it's going pretty good today.

Okay.

Well, good.

Good, man. Good. So what's up? What do you got?

Well, yeah, I want to discuss 1 Corinthians chapter 6, and particularly verses 9 through 11. And that's, you know, but I think most people know that one, where Paul's laying out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I see a lot of people use that as, I see them use it different ways. Sometimes they use it as a form of showing God's grace, and then I've seen some others use it as a way to say that, hey, people are still practicing these lifestyles and they're still saved by grace.

But I do know Christians who've been on both sides.

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

No, go ahead. I'm just reacting. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah.

Well, okay. So is there a difference in doing the act one time or habitually practicing? I know people who have fallen and then they've repented and some people struggle and remove themselves from situations.

So they have no temptation, but there are some who just habitually practice those particular things they know to be sin and they know what God says. So maybe I can get a breakdown of that for you.

Sure. Oh, I always tell people, you know, the first thing you want to do when you look at something like this is read the context of what's going on. And you talk about nine through 11, but in verse seven, let's just back up a little bit.

Actually, then it is already defeat for you. It's about lawsuits that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud.

You do this even to your brethren. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, homosexuals, thieves, covetous, drunkards, rivalers, swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and the spirit of God. So he's drawing a contrast between those of the world and those of Christ, those who practice and live in those things and those who don't.

Now, in the Corinthian church, we don't know, you know, he doesn't know exactly which individuals are saved or not saved. And in fact, I was just in Corinth just about three months ago. And so I love being able to say that, you know, I can visualize it.

And the area was kind of, you know, it was a few acres big, and I'm sure the area around there was much bigger. And so there's going to be a lot of people in that Corinth church, Corinthian church, and the Corinthian area was known for paganism and some other bad stuff.

So there's a mixture of good and bad in the church. And he's just writing a letter in such a way that those who are hearing it are going to react to it. If they are justified, they're washed, sanctified, etc., well, they don't have to worry.

But those who practice the ungodly stuff, those are the ones you've got to worry. It's not because they're true Christians, but because they who practice those things, they're not true believers. So, you know, 1 John 2 .4, if you say you know him and do not keep his commandments, the truth is not in you and you're a liar.

So you can say one thing, and as James 2 .14 through 26 says, that true faith brings out true fruit. It's not the fruit that saves you, but you will be known by how you are. And that's what he's talking about here with the Corinthians as well.

I hope that helps.

Yeah, I think it helps a lot. But would you say there's a distinct difference between someone who's made, maybe they backslid or they slipped up, and they're trying versus the person who has a mindset of, I'm not going to stop because I like what I'm doing, and I'm saved by grace, so I'm going to fornicate in whatever way.

Yeah, it's called the free grace movement, and that's sinful. And so I've talked to many people, a lot of people have confided in me a lot of things over the years. When I see someone caught in sin, but they are struggling against it, they don't want it, that's a sign of life in them.

And so we talk about repentance, we talk about ways to ensure repentance. That's different than those who don't care. It's different than those who just, they just do this, they're just not convicted.

That's an evidence that the Holy Spirit is not in them. And so, just like you said, they're not really saved, okay?

All right, all right, thank you very much.

All right, man. Yeah, I like it when you call, Jermaine, you're a good guy.

You know, I want to tackle the Catholic question.

Sure.

Why some of them do what they do another time. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I actually grew up going to Catholic school in the early part of my upbringing. I've been to the Vatican, so I have a little bit of an insight as to what I think.

But I'm going to share that on another call.

There's a guy named Bill, I know who it is, he's calling. And I always insult him, he loves it when I insult him.

So he can just take a back seat here and wait until after the break.

I know he's smiling when he hears this. He's a good guy, though. But, so go ahead, brother, go ahead.

Catholic School Indoctrination and Brainwashing

Okay, so I actually, the first part of my life, I grew up going to Catholic school. And it was more, my parents were not Catholics. But I went to Catholic school because I was in an inner city environment.

And it was a very harsh environment. And that was the best school around, and you just had to pay for it. And education was top notch. However, there was a lot of indoctrination and fear. And they kind of got their hooks in very early when they're young.

And it's hard to shake some of the, I guess what you call brainwashing, which like any group that has very strong beliefs. So a lot of it is from what I've seen, a lot of people generally want to do the right thing.

And they want to serve God. But they're ignorant of the proper way to serve God. Because we were never taught to actually read our Bibles through for ourselves. We were only taught to listen to what we were told to by our superiors, who were the nuns, and the priest, and everyone else in between.

And back in those days, it was corporal punishment. So you can't get away with that now. But you also have teachers and nuns who would take a stick and give you a good backside beating to correct you.

So now I do agree, maybe we need a little more of that in our society for some kids. But after going through all of that, it's just like layers and layers of conditioning to where the morality is literally beaten into you.

And you're literally indoctrinated to the point where it's very hard to shake. And once you actually read a Bible to see what God has to say to you from him in his letter to you, it becomes a shell shock.

And it's just hard to shake that. Because now you have a cultural impact, you have a family impact, and you have a spiritual confusion that's been placed inside of you. So that's why a lot of people tend to have an issue.

And they get defensive automatically, because that's what they've grown up on. And that's their lifestyle.

That's right.

In fact, statistically, it takes about two years for the average cultist to come out of a cult. And the same thing with the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Takes them a long time to undo that damage and brainwashing.

Then years after that, to fine-tune all the issues there and get them right. Hey, buddy, we've got to go. There's a break. OK, man? Call back again any time, buddy. All right, Jermaine.

I will.

OK, buddy. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. Give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

Be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Priesthood in the Old and New Covenants

Everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276. You can also give me an email or send me an email, I should say. Just send an email to info at CARM .org, info at CARM .org.

And put the subject line, radio comment, radio questions. And we can get to the stuff that you got. All right. All right. Let's get on the air with, hold on, get my mouse to the right place, Bill.

Hey, Bill.

Hey, buddy. Welcome. You're on, buddy.

Hey, Matt. I just have two questions with that. First one is, can you talk about when Jesus on the cross, did God turn his back on Jesus? One of my pastors said yesterday. Can you touch on that? And then the second one is

Okay, let's do that one. Let's do it one at a time.

Let's do that.

When someone says God turned his back on Jesus, that's not something that he should say because we don't know what really happened. You could say there are theories about it. And what does it mean for God to turn his back on Jesus?

Does it mean he abandoned him? If that's what he wants to say, well, that's certainly a possibility. But I can't say that is what happened. He was quoting Psalm 22, verse 1, written 1 ,000 BC and describing the crucifixion as prophesied in that psalm.

So we can say, though, that Jesus in Luke 22, 42 had not wanted to go through the crucifixion. He asked the Lord that he would not go through the crucifixion, and yet that request was not granted. So in that human sense, why have you forsaken me?

I didn't want to go through this, but he's going through it. It could be related to that, and I say that's probably what it is. So to say that God abandoned him is weak theology. Sorry, but it is, and shouldn't be stated as a fact, but as a possible explanation, but then needs to be clarified when he says it, okay?

Okay, now that helps with that, because that's all he said, and he left it at that. And then a second question, can you talk about Hillsong? Because my church is, they're pretty defiant about it, where there's a few of us that are warned, hey, that's a bad idea.

Their stance is they're gonna do it because they can.

Hillsong Ministries and Worship Music Discernment

Yeah, Hillsong has lots of problems, and there's been financial issues, leadership scandals. And though a lot of the music is beautiful, and it is, a lot of it is. There is a bad theological perspective woven into a lot of the songs.

And so you don't hear much, let's put this, I'm gonna be very generic. You don't hear much about repentance, sins, and things like that in the songs. You don't hear much about the greatness and holiness of God as much as needs to be.

Now, I believe it was Hillsong in Australia that did a cabaret show for Christmas. And women in short skirts, the kind of cabaret they did in the 30s, whatever it was, in fishnet stockings doing inline dancing, kicking their legs up for Christmas, a little town of Bethlehem.

They were doing that. And so there's bad stuff. There is a song that, let's see if I can find it really quickly, that I have a list of praise songs in my online music thing I do. And one of them, here's, let's see, let me make sure I get this right, cuz it's the second one.

Or maybe, I might have gotten rid of it, I don't know. Not gonna find it, but anyway, one of the lyrics says, talking about God says, I give you permission to, whatever. I'm like, you don't give God permission for anything.

The idiocy of this kind of theology is bad. Musicians, what they need to do, Christian musicians, they need to submit their lyrics to theologians that they can trust, that theologians can go through and then say, yeah, this is good, this is not good, as far as what is being taught.

There's nothing wrong with that. So they often, they put this way, cuz we've known each other for a few years. And you know I know my theology, and I know better than the average bear. And so I realized over the years that a lot of people just don't know their Bible very well, and don't know the theological perspective that they should.

And so they make all kinds of mistakes. Now, if I were suddenly the pastor at that church, the first thing I would do, one of the first things, is tell everybody in the worship team, you don't play these songs anymore.

And if you don't like it, I mean, we can talk, but they're done. Because we're not gonna have a group that has problems and heresies taught in it be a means of worshiping God. It'd be like, why don't we get a Mormon hymn and sing a Mormon hymn?

Because it has good words or good whatever, good tune. We wouldn't do that in a Christian church. So yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't go to that church. And we know which church that is, okay?

No, thank you, Matt, I appreciate that.

Okay, hey, one more thing. I don't know if my wife's contacted you, but we're going out to a movie tomorrow night. You're invited to go.

Okay, awesome, thank you.

Okay, it's cuz her birthday's coming up. So it's one of those things, and I'll probably come pick you up and stuff like that, and we'll go, okay?

Sounds good, thank you, Matt.

All right, Bill, God bless, buddy.

All right, that's Bill, and he lives just 20 minutes from me and stuff like that, we go do things together, he's a good guy. I hope he didn't hear me say that over the air. Man, dang it, those things slip out.

At any rate, so, but he is a good guy. All right, let's get on the air with Tommy from North Carolina. Tommy, welcome, you're on the air.

Preaching Hell and the Book of Revelation

How you doing, Matt? I got a quick question here. What do you think about a preacher that maybe won't say hell or read the Revelations book and something?

Well, okay, wait, so say the word hell as in he's going through the scriptures and won't repeat the word when it talks about it, or what?

Yeah, the other day, he mentioned that place. It's been a lot of times, too, that he won't say hell. I don't know if he's more scared of the congregation or what's going on. I was just curious, what do you think about that?

I like the preacher, but Go ask him. He don't want to say preach on it. And during on Wednesdays, one of the other preachers, they went through the book of Revelations. But since I've been going there about two years or so, he mentioned quotes about Revelations a few times and other passages that relate to Revelations.

But I'd just like for him to talk about the Revelation book. Things have come and everything. I ain't heard it yet. I don't get to go every Sunday now.

Well, it could be that he said stuff that you haven't heard, but I would just ask him. It's as simple, and generally speaking, if a pastor refuses to say the word hell or doesn't want to offend anybody, as I saw a video I wanted to comment on, and I lost the video.

I was going to do a commentary where a preacher says, don't use the word Jesus. It might offend the Muslims or something like that. I'm like, what a heretic. But if a particular preacher doesn't want to say the word hell or doesn't want to preach on damnation, that would be a problem because he's supposed to preach the fullness.

Well, it's just my gut feeling. It's just my gut feeling about it.

Yeah, I would just go ask him because it's possible that he has. You just haven't been there, and it might be another reason. And just go ask him.

Yeah, well, the reason he told me a while back about it, I mentioned about the end of the arm.

Oh, we got a break. Hold on, man.

He prays all the time.

OK, we got a break. Sorry, so hold on, man.

We'll be right back, OK?

All right. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. We have three open lines, 877 -207 -2276.

We'll be right back.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Continuing the Call About Hell and Revelation

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. Tommy, you're on the air.

Yeah, Matt. And he mentioned, you know, he's like all other priests, they pray all the time and stuff. And I think he said, whatever the Lord leads him to preach on on Sundays. No, that's what I'm getting at about that, which ain't nothing wrong with that by no means.

You know, but I'm just I just like to hear, you know, a preacher talk about revelations and stuff, you know.

Well, ask him.

And they won't go there and they won't say hail or Hades.

Well, ask him about those things, just find out. I would just make a mistake.

He really ain't giving no really good answer, though. So, you know, like I said, you know.

I asked him, though.

Yes, I am.

Oh, and what did he say?

But he mentioned, you know, all the parts that the Bible refers back to the revelation, which is true in there. But as far as him preaching on it, like he does all the things he preach on, you know, but I just I just like to hear a preacher preach about hail, you know, a lot of preachers preach about hail, you know, from time to time during during the year or something.

And I just I don't get to go every Sunday night because I'm over the road. OK, I'm a truck driver.

Yes. You know, so I think it's good.

And everything is just that I'm a little, you know, I'm only human. I guess my instinct, I just like to hear, you know, say that. And they won't say, hey, you know, I don't get it. You know, I thought a preacher preached the whole Bible.

He is, you know, let's preach the whole Bible and skip things. Right. And not be. Yeah, not right. Not be picky choosy. Yeah, that's right. So he would need to. Yeah, you need to talk to him about that.

Maybe the elders and say, you know, what's going on? Why doesn't he preach out of these topics and these issues? That's what I would do. OK,.

That's what I say right quick, you know, about the other guy preacher that they done it on Wednesdays, you know, the whole, you know, revelation of one thing. Well, all people don't go on Wednesday night, you know, Sunday.

You know, why can't you know, he laid on it some, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I get you. But talk to the pastor about it. And, you know, ask her.

Yeah, but I forget the same answer.

Well, yeah, it was a church. It's a maybe it's a Baptist church. OK, well, maybe you have to, maybe you don't. But, you know, it's always good to talk to the elders and talk to other people to see what they say.

Make sure you get the right understanding of things.

But back. OK, well, thank you, brother, Matt. All right. Well, God bless. Thank you, sir. All right. Later. OK.

OK, we have wide open lines. If you want, you can give me a call. The number is 877 -207 -2276. I want to hear from you. You can also send me an email and that's easy to do. Just direct it to CARM or info, excuse me.

Info at CARM .org, I-N-F-O, of course. Info at CARM, C-A-R-M dot O-R-G and just send it there. And also put the subject line radio comment, radio question. I'm thinking here of what to talk about because I don't have any callers and I can get to emails.

We've got plenty of those, but I've been doing some studying. And I'd like to do this every now and then when I learn something new or I'm focusing on something and doing a study like a show on the radio.

It's got a mini semi teaching thing or or, hey, look what I've been learning out of the scriptures. And, you know, I guess I don't I've never heard any other radio guy or girl do that where they say, look, I'm learning something.

I'm reading the word.

I'm studying it and I'm picking things up. I don't know, I'm the only one. Maybe it's because I just I don't care. Hey, I'm learning stuff.

Let me share it with you.

But so you may know, I do a lot of discussions with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, and there's twofold reasons. I want them to hear the true gospel come out of their false religion and be saved. That's the primary reason.

And the other one is to be able to learn things and refine arguments, refine understanding of scripture and various things in order to teach it on the radio and articles and videos and various things like that.

Well, one of the things that I had been saying for a while. I think it's interesting is both the Roman Catholics, R .C. and Eastern Orthodox E .O., both the R .C. and E .O. have a false gospel, teach a false priesthood and have a false Mary.

Now, I've talked about Mary. I've talked about their gospel. And so I have been doing studies on priesthood. And what I've done is gone through the Old Testament and I looked at priesthood stuff. I did some today.

I've looked at every single instance of the word priest, priestly, priesthood, et cetera, in the New Testament. But I found the Greek and went and looked at the Greek words. And then what I can do in my Bible program is I can put that Greek word number from the Strong's Concordance and I can find every single place in the Greek New Testament where it appears.

And I go look at it in the English. It's easy to do. And so I've done that. All right. And then what I do is I will take that stuff. I'll export it to Excel, you know, Microsoft Excel, because I'm really good at Excel.

I used to teach it, did some advanced stuff with it. I think Excel is a tremendous program.

I really do.

And so I can do some tricks in there and do some stuff. And then I I do those tricks and then I take the Excel thing and then I put it into a filter. Then from the filter, I convert it to HTML. I do all this stuff, right?

I do all these things. And I like doing that kind of stuff because I'm a nerd. And then what I do once it's all set, then I'm ready to analyze each verse. So I have it in a table, in a table that I'm going to publish.

And I add a column to the right of all these verses, every verse that might have the appearance of priest, priestly, priesthood, et cetera. And I did every single one of the New Testament. And then I go through one by one in the order that they are.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, all of it. And I go through and I study. And I found some things out. I let the scriptures determine what context it is and what the topic is. And so each time a new context or a new topic comes up, I add a new column and put that in there and put an X, you know, or put the words in there.

This is what it's about. All right. So this is what I did. I did this kind of thing. And the biblical priesthood relevant to the Christians today is the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus and the priesthood of all believers.

So that's the priesthood or the priesthoods relevant to the Christians today. There is no New Testament support for the priesthood office after the style of the Catholics and the Orthodox. It's just not there.

So after studying these words, studying how the how God uses them through the prophets, et cetera, and the apostles, after studying the word priest, priestly and priesthood in the Greek, I found five categories.

One, the Jewish chief priest is mentioned. And you understand there's a little theologically important, significant thing here, a divider. I'm going to explain it to you. The Old Testament covenant is not the same as the New Testament covenant.

There's similarities, but they're not the same. An important theological point is that at the the death of Christ, Hebrews 8, 13, Hebrews 9, 15 and 16, that if you read those verses, you'll find out that the new covenant is instituted or ratified with Jesus death.

So up to that point, they're under the Old Testament system. But when Jesus died, now it's the ratification of the new covenant. That's what it says in Hebrews 9, 15 to 16. There must be the death of the testator with that covenant.

And so with Jesus died, boom, we're in the new covenant era. All right. So when it talks about the Jewish chief priest, that's the Old Testament style. So it mentions a Jewish chief priest as chief priest.

It also mentions the second category, the Jewish priestly office. It's still Old Covenant. The Jewish priestly service is also mentioned. And then there's a priesthood and priest. So these are the main categories that I found.

So we can exclude the Jewish chief priesthood and the Jewish priestly office, as well as the Jewish priestly service. OK. Because they're not Christian offices and they were in place before the death of Christ, which I said began the new covenant.

So in the New Testament, what's left over is the priesthood of Jesus, the Melchizedek priesthood. There is no priesthood of people except what Peter says in first Peter two, five through nine. We are all priests.

He says this. Let me go to those verses, second Peter or first Peter two, five and nine. I'm going to read these to you. First Peter two, verse five. So also as living stones are you are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices.