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September 25, 2017:
KURT M. SMITH, author & pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, AL who will discuss:
“Remembering LUTHER’s FIGHT”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listeners, with your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnton.
Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 25th day of September 2017.
And yet, in spite of my really radical cold that I'm battling today, I march on and I am conducting the program today because I was looking forward so greatly to have back on the program Kurt M. Smith, who many of you recognize from his past interviews on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
He is an author and the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. Today we are addressing his booklet, Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy of standing for the gospel.
And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.
Kurt M. Smith. Well, thank you, Brother Chris. It's great to be back with you. And in studio.
With me is my co-host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor. And once again, hello. It's good to be here. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.
Let's say you disagree with your own pastor on theology or something like that, and you don't want to publicly identify yourself. That's understandable. But if it's not a personal and private matter, please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence.
And Pastor Smith, for those of our listeners who have not yet heard you, please let our listeners know something about Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine.
Mountain, Alabama. Providence Reformed Baptist Church. And it's interesting how there are many.
Baptists across the country who view Calvinists as the new kids on the block and the troublemakers, when we're actually, in many if not most cases, trying to return to the roots of our Baptist.
Heritage and, even more importantly, our biblical heritage. Yeah. Oh, you did? Well, I want to read.
An endorsement that Michael Haken, who is one of the most prolific Baptist historians alive today, I've always enjoyed interviewing Dr. Haken on my program, and he says about this booklet, there seems to be no end of Luther studies, and especially in this year, 2017, when many are celebrating the beginning of the Reformation.
Kurt Smith's brief study is extremely helpful as he, as he, oh boy, the typing on the hair is really small, as he isolates the core legacy of Luther and why his life and thought is still needed today.
And this is a booklet that is brief enough where those who aren't even believers might be more willing to read it, and it's also inexpensive enough where churches can buy cases of these, of this booklet and, you know, give them away not only to visitors during Reformation Month or at any time, but, but also to their own members.
What was it that led you,.
A Baptist, to write about Martin Luther to begin with? Despite, taken from the evangelism, he tried to understand in this, even if heaven and on this article rests all that we teach and practice against the post thinking on the Lord used him.
Amen. And, by the way, there are.
Conservative, solid, Bible-believing Lutherans who disagree with Luther on things as well. And thank God for that, otherwise we would be guilty of idolatry. Right. And, by the way, I didn't want to put any apprehension on the parts of our listeners to think, because of my remark, that the entire booklet is in a very small font.
That's, I was reading from the back cover of the endorsement of Michael Hagen, which is smaller than the font inside the book. So I just want to, people, to rest at ease that you can easily read, even I can easily read, yeah, even I could easily read the inside of the book with my bad eyesight.
And just another reminder that I have to go to the ophthalmologist. But the, what part, because obviously since this is a brief study, what did you focus on to the exclusion of all else in.
Regard to Luther's life, legacy, and theology? One, come to faith in Christ in their own language. And, of course, by giving the people, no one in Germany would be barred from reading the gospel. And this can be seen in the Production 29.
We'll talk through these talks. Luther, this is real, the act of 1522 to his death in 1546, he preached some, he believed firmly,. German edition 27. Considering that, if Martin Luther himself,. Small catechism, we need to know, what was it that Luther,.
B .B. Warfield,. Of everything that, and the theology, the theology.
In it was the key uniting factor that brought all the reformers in harmony, because the reformers disagreed on especially the sacraments and other things. But this is the primary area where they.
All were in agreement. Absolutely. He actually wrote, you know, he just took grounding from this through the years, you know, to read the bondage of the will, writing in the bondage of the will, in that work where he is pleading with Erasmus.
Yeah, he highly regarded Erasmus.
I mean, we shouldn't view Erasmus as some kind of an evil, drooling villain. He was on the wrong side of the gospel, that's for sure, but he actually was a catalyst to Luther translating.
The Bible into Germany, into German himself. Yeah, yeah, you're right, absolutely he was,.
And isn't it interesting that so many Baptists, and so many Protestants and Evangelicals that are more toward the conservative end, but are also not only anti-Roman Catholic, but also anti-Calvinist.
Isn't it interesting that so many of them don't recognize, in fact, I would say that none of them recognize consciously, that they are siding with Erasmus and putting themselves in opposition to Luther in the great debate of the Reformation in regard to the human will.
They're actually siding with Rome. Yeah, really, they are. In 1883, Erasmus was more pleased with what Erasmus wrote, and in his reply to Erasmus, which actually came a year later, he actually thanked him for the real thing.
Thank you for attacking the real thing. The essential for Martin Luther would be nothing less. Amen. And we're going to go to a break right.
Now, and Reverend Buzz Taylor, if you could hold on to your question, so don't forget what it was, so when we come back you can ask that question or make that comment, whichever it was. And also, I don't know if you knew this, Kurt, but my very dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries just over the weekend preached at, or should I say from, Martin Luther's pulpit.
At the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany. Oh, wow. Well, that would be a privilege.
Okay, we're jealous. Nothing like a dose of jealousy to continue our conversation. Yeah, that's right. I was filled with envy that I wasn't there. I mean, what a monumental event for Dr. White that was.
And there are photographs of it on Facebook that you could see. Really gorgeous pulpit, elevated pulpit. But we are going to a break right now, and we do have some listeners that have already sent in questions for you that we will ask and have you answer.
If anybody else would like to join them, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back, God willing, with more of Kurt M. Smith and remembering Luther's fight.
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If you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor, an elder, which I happen to believe are the same thing, a deacon, or a leader in a parachurch organization, you may attend this free event.
There is absolutely no charge at all. There is no hidden agenda. You're just going to be treated to a blessed time of hearing God's word, of eating delicious food, and receiving—each of you are going to be receiving—a sack filled with brand new books and Bibles contributed to us by major Christian publishers—nearly every major Christian publisher in the United States and the United Kingdom.
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This is only for men, and as I said, it's absolutely free of charge Thursday, October 26, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and we are now back to our discussion with Kurt M. Smith.
He is an author, and he's the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. We are discussing his booklet Remembering Luther's Fight. This is a part of the Solid Ground Reformation 500 title series, and before we went to the break, the Reverend Buzz Taylor had something he wanted to say.
I just wanted to know, with your book Remembering Luther's Fight, do you have a particular target audience, and what would you say your main message is to evangelicals today?
And by the way, to segue from what you were just saying about Luther's belief that salvation was.
Completely outside of himself, not long ago—I believe it was just last week, actually—when I interviewed a Missouri—actually, he's not Missouri Synod, he's American—Association of American Lutheran Churches Synod, which is in communion with the Missouri Synod—Christopher Roseborough, Chris Roseborough, who is the founder of Pirate Radio, and an ordained Lutheran minister.
In my interview with him, he admitted that Melanchthon, after Luther's death, had unfortunately took the Lutheran church farther away from Luther's God-centered focus of the gospel and of the fact that man's will is corrupt and bound, and he brought it back closer to accommodate Roman Catholic theology as an attempt of some kind of a peace treaty.
So he did admit to that, and unfortunately many Lutherans have followed Melanchthon's line of thinking, rather than going back to not only Luther, but more importantly,.
The Bible. And we have a listener in Ada, Ohio, David, who has a question. What did Martin Luther.
Think of the book of Revelation, and why? I know Calvin was terrified of it, but if you could let.
Us know if you know what Luther's thoughts are. Well, you know, I've never read—. And from what I understand, Calvin didn't even write a commentary on Revelation. No, he did not, because Calvin, I mean, Calvin said very plainly that he didn't understand it well enough to even attempt to write a—.
Well, thank you, David, in Ada, Ohio, and thank you.
For giving us your mailing address, because you've won a free copy of Remembering Luther's Fight, published by Solid Ground Christian Books, and that will be shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.
That's cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for Bible Book Service dot com. So thank you very much for contributing to the program today. We have Joe in Slovenia, who says, Please keep having Brother Smith back with you often.
My question today has to do with how Luther, as a reformer, was, because of his proximity to the genesis of the Reformation, unable to completely break with Rome on doctrines related to the Lord's Supper and baptism.
Others, like Calvin, Zwingli, Knox, and the Reformed Baptists, who followed close on his heels, were able to follow the implications of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, through their theological and scriptural conclusions regarding the memorial and symbolic nature of baptism in the Lord's Supper.
In your research, what would explain why Luther was unable to move to these conclusions, and why many Lutherans today are unable to benefit from other reformers and later evangelical scholarship on these topics?
Thank you so much.
For your commitment to ongoing Reformation. Yeah, the silence in the Bible is a.
Open door for liberty rather than a closed door for prohibition.
Yes. And Luther, don't you think that Luther was the most inconsistent in regard to Sola Fide,.
Because of his views on baptismal regeneration? It doesn't seem to be. Oh yeah. It's a baffling thing to me. I still, no matter how many people have tried to explain, whether they're Lutheran scholars or just scholars who have studied Luther himself, I just can't wrap my head around how he.
Can reconcile baptismal regeneration with Sola Fide. In fact, you could pick up right where,.
You could pick up right there when we return from our break. We have to go to our midway break right now, and also Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question or comment that you'll have to hold on to when we come back.
Don't forget what it was, Buzz. If anybody else would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back.
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Because everyone needs a pastor. And don't forget that Pastor Bill Shishko, host of A Visit to the Pastor's Study, will be our keynote speaker at the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon in celebration of the 500th anniversary of Reformation Day.
And this will be held Thursday, October 26th, 11 am to 2 pm at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, and it will be catered by our friends at Firehouse Subs. And this is absolutely free of charge.
There is no hidden agenda. All pastors will not only be fed spiritually and physically, but they'll also receive a free sack of brand new books donated by nearly every major Christian publisher that is in the United States and the United Kingdom.
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And please email me if you'd like to register at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line. And we have some other events that we have to announce prior to that luncheon.
In September, this month, in fact it's this weekend, Friday, September 29th and Saturday, September 30th, I'm heading out, God willing, to Long Island, New York to be at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York to help them celebrate the Gospel of the Reformation's 500th anniversary, featuring keynote speaker Dr. Tony Costa, a dear friend of mine who's on the faculty at Toronto Baptist Seminary.
He is the Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. And once again, that's Friday, September 29th and Saturday, September 30th. If you'd like to attend this free event, go to wotchurch .com.
That's W-O-T standing for Word of Truth Church dot com, W-O-T church dot com, or call 631 -806 -0614, 631 -806 -0614. Then the very next day, Sunday, October 1st at 11 a .m., Hope Reform Baptist Church will also have Dr. Tony Costa speak for them in Medford, Long Island, New York.
And if you'd like to attend that worship service and you want more information about Hope Reform Baptist Church of Medford, go to Hope Reformed L-I, that stands for Long Island, dot net, Hope Reformed L-I dot net, or call 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711.
And coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania, featuring guest speakers Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant.
The theme is, For Still, Our Ancient Foe, a line from the classic Reformation hymn by Martin Luther, A Mighty Fortress, in reference to Satan, that is, our ancient foe is in reference to Satan. And if you would like to join me at that conference as well, where I intend to have an Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth, go to AllianceNet dot org, AllianceNet dot org, click on Events, and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.
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And we are now back to our discussion on Remembering Luther's Fight with author Kurt M. Smith, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.
Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the USA. And before the break, our co-host, Reverend Buzz Taylor, had something to say.
Yeah, Kurt, getting back to, I believe it was Joe's question. You did sort of answer it, so I'm not really going to be saying something you haven't said, but I just think that we need to just take a little bit of magnifying glass on it and learn, because I've heard many people say in the conversation, Luther didn't go far enough.
And we really need to cut him some slack, the poor guy, because if we consider where he was in church history, look how many hundreds of years it took to iron things out after the apostles. And you had this darkness and then a reformation, the fact that Luther got anything right was amazing.
But we have to cut him slack because he is just like us. We don't know what we don't know. It's a learning process, and just as when we all come to Christ, we're as ignorant as can be, and we learn as we hear the preaching of the word, and we attend church, and we discuss with other brothers in Christ.
Well, if I can say the word, iron sharpens iron. We grow through this, and we learn. And it's part of our sanctification. I think the same thing is happening in church history, but it takes a lot longer to move masses of evangelicals than it does just individuals within it.
We still haven't come to agreement since the reformation, and yet we're reformed. I mean, I'm sitting here as a Presbyterian, and Chris is sitting here as a Baptist. We haven't hashed that out enough yet.
We're working on it, and when we come up with an answer, we'll let you know, okay? But I also am a little bit curious about, I'm trying to wrap my mind around Luther's consubstantiation, and I've heard many people say, well, we don't really understand what he meant by that, and I'm certainly not going to settle the issue right now.
And by the way,.
There are Lutheran scholars, in fact, every Lutheran scholar that I've interviewed says they don't really like that term because they like to relegate this to more of the realm of mystery. They don't want to pinpoint it specifically as that.
Well, I just want to give an illustration.
That might help us to wrap our minds around it. Most of us have been married before a minister saying, dearly beloved, we are gathered together in the sight of God and in the presence of these witnesses to join together this man and this woman in holy matrimony.
And how many of us start looking around the room like, where's he sitting? Where's God sitting? We're in his presence. We know he's there. We know that marriage actually does something very real in our lives.
When we leave, what used to be called fornication is now called adultery. There's a real change because God really was present there. Is that kind of, do you think, what he had in mind with consubstantiation or whatever they want to call it?
Yeah, yeah, I do. In real presence.
Yeah, that's right. Yes. Yeah, which is why he argued, so, you know, vehemously, you know, in declaring, it wasn't, he wasn't arguing for transubstantiation. I mean, he broke from that, but yet he did still, you know, he, what he came to was believing that he is present.
In, around, and under the elements. Yes, that's right. Yes, that is right.
And one very serious, and probably even more serious departure that he had with Rome is that he did not worship the elements as Rome does, which is idolatry. If you're worshiping bread and wine, you are committing idolatry.
And he did not believe that the so-called mass.
Was a perpetuatory sacrifice. When you, when you have the, oh yes, yes, thank you.
And we have, let's see, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who wants to know, I do understand that it is true, and has been documented, that the epistle of James was very problematic at Luther, and he said something to the effect of, we should throw Jimmy in the stove, meaning we should get rid of that epistle.
But did he ultimately continue with that notion after he translated the Bible into German?
No, no, later. Yeah, for those of our listeners who may be new Christians, or they're not even.
Christians at all, and are unfamiliar with what we're talking about, James basically said that if you do not participate in good deeds, good works, that your faith is not genuine, it's dead. And Roman Catholics and some of the cults will take that and twist it into meaning that our works cooperate with grace into, on saving us, and our, that our works are actually meritorious.
They help us achieve a worthiness to be welcomed into heaven, or whatever the afterlife, according to each cult, may be. But James was merely saying that the works were a sign of life, that just like if you're breathing and your heart is beating, that's a sign of life, and our works are a sign of life, that we are truly regenerate.
That's right. And one of the things that I believe I have learned through,.
You know, studying Luther, is that when he was translating the Bible into German, that this is really where his eyes were being opened to so many other things that he was previously blind to. Roman Catholics are continually citing and quoting Luther when he agrees with them on things that are peculiarly Roman Catholic, things involving Marian devotion and so on.
But what they don't realize is that Luther, like all of us, was a work in progress. And there are different Martin Luther's at different stages of his life that were, you know, he was gradually shedding more and more of his Roman baggage, was he not, especially after.
Translating the Bible? Yeah, as a monk, continued his, he still practiced, it was something more years. But of course, you know, when I think of that, we can parallel that to the Apostle Peter. I mean, you know, look at, look at Peter at the church, I had to rebuke Peter about, you know, I mean, Peter firmly believed in just, and Paul did not dispute what Peter believed about rebuking Peter over publicly was how Peter actually worked.
And we are going to our final.
Break right now. And if you'd like to join us on the air, the question now is the time to do it. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Oh, I think I forgot to tell Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County that you have also won a free copy of Remembering Luther's Fight by Kurt M. Smith.
So make sure we have your full mailing address in Eastern Suffolk County. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages.
Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.
That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either. We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.
If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528 -5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled, Resting in Grace.
You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org, or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.
Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co-host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I would like to introduce you to my good friends, Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.
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Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the Church, and to Christ. That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.
That's cvbbs .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
And now we are in the final segment of our interview today with Kurt M. Smith on Remembering Luther's Fight. And Kurt, I think that you use an important phrase in the very beginning of your booklet, Rediscovering Biblical Christianity.
Because I had a recent debate, I just thought it was going to be a testimony time and a conversation, but it actually turned into a debate on Unbelievable Radio. I participated with a Roman Catholic who was a former Anglican who converted to Roman Catholicism, who was an attorney in London, England.
And we were both on this UK program together. And the attorney, very nice man, but using a lot of old, tired arguments that Rome completely, or should I say, continually, perpetually regurgitates in regard to a defense of their religion.
And one of them is that no one believed what Martin Luther believed in regard to the gospel, the things that were uniquely intrinsic to the Reformation, as opposed to Roman Catholicism at that time. Nobody believed in those things until Martin Luther arrived on the scene.
So if what he said was true, it would force us to believe that Christianity began in the 16th century. And this is utterly preposterous, isn't it?
He actually, in the thing that I make, in the book, he began, he was a monumental, is there anyone before me? And why did you use the phrase God's volcano in your book? I, Michael Reeves, he was a great, when he finally, and he was shocked there,.
That's powerful stuff. In fact, Carl Truman, Dr. Carl Truman of Westminster Theological Seminary,.
Basically said as much in the recent documentary, Martin Luther, The Idea That Changed The World. I don't know if you saw that, I thought it was an excellent documentary, a PBS documentary.
Oh, wow. Oh, no.
Oh yeah, it's very recent, and I was very pleasantly surprised that a liberal institution like PBS would produce such a historically accurate documentary, because even though some of the participants in the documentary, some of them, not all, some of them were from more liberal backgrounds, and even one Roman Catholic, at least one Roman Catholic archbishop, Timothy Dolan of New York City, everything that they said, even those that were not in our theological camp, everything that was said was basically historically accurate, no matter who said it.
So it was a really phenomenal documentary. Let's see, we do have RJ in White Plains, New York, and RJ in White Plains says, what do you say to those individuals who entirely dismiss Luther because of his anti-Semitic remarks and also because of his harsh words against Anabaptists and his lack of protection for them that led to the death.
Of many of them? You know, in fact, the rabbis who helped produce the Talmud had some very harsh.
And nasty things to say about Jesus Christ. So, I mean, it's not just like a one-way street here in history. Right. And we have, by the way, RJ, you've won a free copy of Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy, and Standing for the Gospel by our guest Kurt M. Smith.
Please make sure we have your full mailing address in White Plains, New York. We also have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants you to give us the main points about Martin Luther's life and legacy that we should remember.
And it's interesting because that is a section of your booklet which you quote from Stephen Nichols on three major.
Features of Luther's legacy. Yeah, in a corporate worship service. Not only that, but singing in a gathered church and even in our own language. Harrison in Mechanicsburg,.
Pennsylvania, wants to know, are you as troubled as I am by the sneakiness, it appears to be, in regard to modern-day ecumenists who say that we can have solidarity with anyone who believes in salvation by grace through faith because of Christ, according to the scriptures, but they leave out a very crucial word, alone, in all of those vital elements.
Can you tell us.
The importance of the word alone? Yeah. Yes, and thank you, Harrison. You've also won a free copy.
Of Remembering Luther's Fight, so please give us your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, where we can have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service mail this out to you, cvbbs .com. Cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for Bible Book Service dot com.
We'll be mailing this out to you as soon as we have your full mailing address. And we have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says, isn't there a very strong distinction that we have to make when explaining our gospel to Roman Catholics and to others who believe that works are meritorious?
That works are indeed essential as a fruit or evidence, but they add nothing to the grace of God, whose death alone provided our redemption. Still, nonetheless, a Christian without works and without fruit is truly no true Christian at all, but merely a dead person professing to be a Christian.
Yeah, that's a very good question because of the fact that that is the main argument that those like Roman Catholics and even members of cults and so on, they will use against evangelicalism because they will broad brush us all into believing in a repentant-less Christianity that will usher people into heaven who never repented from their wicked life.
And that is not what the Reformers nor what the Bible especially teaches and that it's not what the heirs of the Reformation who are being historically accurate and biblically faithful, that's not what.
We believe. No. Yeah, what I say very often to people who make that charge against us is I say,.
Yes, I do believe once saved, always saved, but not once you think you're saved, you're always saved. There's a big difference between those two things. There is, there is. And we are out of time and I know that your website for the Providence Reformed Baptist Church is prbc1689 .org, pr for Protestant Reformed, bc for Baptist Church, 1689 .org, and of course the Solid Ground Christian Books website where people can order your booklet is solid-ground-books .com, solid-ground-books .com.
Thank you so much, Pastor Kurt Smith. I look forward to having you back in the program and if you could wait on the line, I'd like to reschedule you for another interview. All right, thank you, Chris.
I want to thank everybody who listened today. I want to thank Reverend Buzz Taylor for being my co-host and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.
Make sure you tune in tomorrow for Phil Johnson of John MacArthur's Grace to You Ministries who will be our guest for the two hours. God bless.