September 25, 2017 Show with Kurt M. Smith on “Remembering Luther’s Fight”

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 25th day of September 2017.

And yet, in spite of my really radical cold that I'm battling today, I march on and I am conducting the program today because I was looking forward so greatly to have back on the program Kurt M. Smith, who many of you recognize from his past interviews on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He is an author and the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. Today we are addressing his booklet, Remembering Luther's Fight, a primer on Martin Luther's life and legacy of standing for the gospel.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

Kurt M. Smith. Well, thank you, Brother Chris. It's great to be back with you. And in studio.

With me is my co-host, the Reverend Buzz Taylor. And once again, hello. It's good to be here. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Providence Reformed Baptist Identity and Luther's Reformation Legacy

And Pastor Smith, for those of our listeners who have not yet heard you, please let our listeners know something about Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine.

Mountain, Alabama. Providence Reformed Baptist Church. And it's interesting how there are many.

Baptists across the country who view Calvinists as the new kids on the block and the troublemakers, when we're actually, in many if not most cases, trying to return to the roots of our Baptist.

Heritage and, even more importantly, our biblical heritage. Yeah. Oh, you did? Well, I want to read.

An endorsement that Michael Haken, who is one of the most prolific Baptist historians alive today, I've always enjoyed interviewing Dr. Haken on my program, and he says about this booklet, there seems to be no end of Luther studies, and especially in this year, 2017, when many are celebrating the beginning of the Reformation.

Kurt Smith's brief study is extremely helpful as he, as he, oh boy, the typing on the hair is really small, as he isolates the core legacy of Luther and why his life and thought is still needed today.

And this is a booklet that is brief enough where those who aren't even believers might be more willing to read it, and it's also inexpensive enough where churches can buy cases of these, of this booklet and, you know, give them away not only to visitors during Reformation Month or at any time, but, but also to their own members.

What was it that led you,.

A Baptist, to write about Martin Luther to begin with? Despite, taken from the evangelism, he tried to understand in this, even if heaven and on this article rests all that we teach and practice against the post thinking on the Lord used him.

Amen. And, by the way, there are.

Conservative, solid, Bible-believing Lutherans who disagree with Luther on things as well. And thank God for that, otherwise we would be guilty of idolatry. Right. And, by the way, I didn't want to put any apprehension on the parts of our listeners to think, because of my remark, that the entire booklet is in a very small font.

That's, I was reading from the back cover of the endorsement of Michael Hagen, which is smaller than the font inside the book. So I just want to, people, to rest at ease that you can easily read, even I can easily read, yeah, even I could easily read the inside of the book with my bad eyesight.

And just another reminder that I have to go to the ophthalmologist. But the, what part, because obviously since this is a brief study, what did you focus on to the exclusion of all else in.

Regard to Luther's life, legacy, and theology? One, come to faith in Christ in their own language. And, of course, by giving the people, no one in Germany would be barred from reading the gospel. And this can be seen in the Production 29.

We'll talk through these talks. Luther, this is real, the act of 1522 to his death in 1546, he preached some, he believed firmly,. German edition 27. Considering that, if Martin Luther himself,. Small catechism, we need to know, what was it that Luther,.

B .B. Warfield,. Of everything that, and the theology, the theology.

In it was the key uniting factor that brought all the reformers in harmony, because the reformers disagreed on especially the sacraments and other things. But this is the primary area where they.

All were in agreement. Absolutely. He actually wrote, you know, he just took grounding from this through the years, you know, to read the bondage of the will, writing in the bondage of the will, in that work where he is pleading with Erasmus.

Yeah, he highly regarded Erasmus.

I mean, we shouldn't view Erasmus as some kind of an evil, drooling villain. He was on the wrong side of the gospel, that's for sure, but he actually was a catalyst to Luther translating.

The Bible into Germany, into German himself. Yeah, yeah, you're right, absolutely he was,.

And isn't it interesting that so many Baptists, and so many Protestants and Evangelicals that are more toward the conservative end, but are also not only anti-Roman Catholic, but also anti-Calvinist.

Isn't it interesting that so many of them don't recognize, in fact, I would say that none of them recognize consciously, that they are siding with Erasmus and putting themselves in opposition to Luther in the great debate of the Reformation in regard to the human will.

They're actually siding with Rome. Yeah, really, they are. In 1883, Erasmus was more pleased with what Erasmus wrote, and in his reply to Erasmus, which actually came a year later, he actually thanked him for the real thing.

Thank you for attacking the real thing. The essential for Martin Luther would be nothing less. Amen. And we're going to go to a break right.

Now, and Reverend Buzz Taylor, if you could hold on to your question, so don't forget what it was, so when we come back you can ask that question or make that comment, whichever it was. And also, I don't know if you knew this, Kurt, but my very dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries just over the weekend preached at, or should I say from, Martin Luther's pulpit.

At the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany. Oh, wow. Well, that would be a privilege.

Okay, we're jealous. Nothing like a dose of jealousy to continue our conversation. Yeah, that's right. I was filled with envy that I wasn't there. I mean, what a monumental event for Dr. White that was.

And there are photographs of it on Facebook that you could see. Really gorgeous pulpit, elevated pulpit. But we are going to a break right now, and we do have some listeners that have already sent in questions for you that we will ask and have you answer.

If anybody else would like to join them, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back, God willing, with more of Kurt M. Smith and remembering Luther's fight.

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This is only for men, and as I said, it's absolutely free of charge Thursday, October 26, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and we are now back to our discussion with Kurt M. Smith.

He is an author, and he's the pastor of Providence Reformed Baptist Church of Pine Mountain, Alabama. We are discussing his booklet Remembering Luther's Fight. This is a part of the Solid Ground Reformation 500 title series, and before we went to the break, the Reverend Buzz Taylor had something he wanted to say.

I just wanted to know, with your book Remembering Luther's Fight, do you have a particular target audience, and what would you say your main message is to evangelicals today?

And by the way, to segue from what you were just saying about Luther's belief that salvation was.

Completely outside of himself, not long ago—I believe it was just last week, actually—when I interviewed a Missouri—actually, he's not Missouri Synod, he's American—Association of American Lutheran Churches Synod, which is in communion with the Missouri Synod—Christopher Roseborough, Chris Roseborough, who is the founder of Pirate Radio, and an ordained Lutheran minister.

In my interview with him, he admitted that Melanchthon, after Luther's death, had unfortunately took the Lutheran church farther away from Luther's God-centered focus of the gospel and of the fact that man's will is corrupt and bound, and he brought it back closer to accommodate Roman Catholic theology as an attempt of some kind of a peace treaty.

So he did admit to that, and unfortunately many Lutherans have followed Melanchthon's line of thinking, rather than going back to not only Luther, but more importantly,.

The Bible. And we have a listener in Ada, Ohio, David, who has a question. What did Martin Luther.

Think of the book of Revelation, and why? I know Calvin was terrified of it, but if you could let.

Us know if you know what Luther's thoughts are. Well, you know, I've never read—. And from what I understand, Calvin didn't even write a commentary on Revelation. No, he did not, because Calvin, I mean, Calvin said very plainly that he didn't understand it well enough to even attempt to write a—.

Well, thank you, David, in Ada, Ohio, and thank you.

For giving us your mailing address, because you've won a free copy of Remembering Luther's Fight, published by Solid Ground Christian Books, and that will be shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

That's cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for Bible Book Service dot com. So thank you very much for contributing to the program today. We have Joe in Slovenia, who says, Please keep having Brother Smith back with you often.

My question today has to do with how Luther, as a reformer, was, because of his proximity to the genesis of the Reformation, unable to completely break with Rome on doctrines related to the Lord's Supper and baptism.

Others, like Calvin, Zwingli, Knox, and the Reformed Baptists, who followed close on his heels, were able to follow the implications of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, and Christ alone, through their theological and scriptural conclusions regarding the memorial and symbolic nature of baptism in the Lord's Supper.

In your research, what would explain why Luther was unable to move to these conclusions, and why many Lutherans today are unable to benefit from other reformers and later evangelical scholarship on these topics?

Thank you so much.

For your commitment to ongoing Reformation. Yeah, the silence in the Bible is a.

Open door for liberty rather than a closed door for prohibition.

Yes. And Luther, don't you think that Luther was the most inconsistent in regard to Sola Fide,.

Because of his views on baptismal regeneration? It doesn't seem to be. Oh yeah. It's a baffling thing to me. I still, no matter how many people have tried to explain, whether they're Lutheran scholars or just scholars who have studied Luther himself, I just can't wrap my head around how he.

Can reconcile baptismal regeneration with Sola Fide. In fact, you could pick up right where,.

You could pick up right there when we return from our break. We have to go to our midway break right now, and also Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question or comment that you'll have to hold on to when we come back.

Don't forget what it was, Buzz. If anybody else would like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, we'll be right back.

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In September, this month, in fact it's this weekend, Friday, September 29th and Saturday, September 30th, I'm heading out, God willing, to Long Island, New York to be at the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York to help them celebrate the Gospel of the Reformation's 500th anniversary, featuring keynote speaker Dr. Tony Costa, a dear friend of mine who's on the faculty at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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Luther, Melanchthon, and the Reformation's Unfinished Questions

And we are now back to our discussion on Remembering Luther's Fight with author Kurt M. Smith, and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the USA. And before the break, our co-host, Reverend Buzz Taylor, had something to say.

Yeah, Kurt, getting back to, I believe it was Joe's question. You did sort of answer it, so I'm not really going to be saying something you haven't said, but I just think that we need to just take a little bit of magnifying glass on it and learn, because I've heard many people say in the conversation, Luther didn't go far enough.

And we really need to cut him some slack, the poor guy, because if we consider where he was in church history, look how many hundreds of years it took to iron things out after the apostles. And you had this darkness and then a reformation, the fact that Luther got anything right was amazing.

But we have to cut him slack because he is just like us. We don't know what we don't know. It's a learning process, and just as when we all come to Christ, we're as ignorant as can be, and we learn as we hear the preaching of the word, and we attend church, and we discuss with other brothers in Christ.

Well, if I can say the word, iron sharpens iron. We grow through this, and we learn. And it's part of our sanctification. I think the same thing is happening in church history, but it takes a lot longer to move masses of evangelicals than it does just individuals within it.

We still haven't come to agreement since the reformation, and yet we're reformed. I mean, I'm sitting here as a Presbyterian, and Chris is sitting here as a Baptist. We haven't hashed that out enough yet.

We're working on it, and when we come up with an answer, we'll let you know, okay? But I also am a little bit curious about, I'm trying to wrap my mind around Luther's consubstantiation, and I've heard many people say, well, we don't really understand what he meant by that, and I'm certainly not going to settle the issue right now.

And by the way,.

There are Lutheran scholars, in fact, every Lutheran scholar that I've interviewed says they don't really like that term because they like to relegate this to more of the realm of mystery. They don't want to pinpoint it specifically as that.

Well, I just want to give an illustration.

That might help us to wrap our minds around it. Most of us have been married before a minister saying, dearly beloved, we are gathered together in the sight of God and in the presence of these witnesses to join together this man and this woman in holy matrimony.

And how many of us start looking around the room like, where's he sitting? Where's God sitting? We're in his presence. We know he's there. We know that marriage actually does something very real in our lives.

When we leave, what used to be called fornication is now called adultery. There's a real change because God really was present there. Is that kind of, do you think, what he had in mind with consubstantiation or whatever they want to call it?

Yeah, yeah, I do. In real presence.

Yeah, that's right. Yes. Yeah, which is why he argued, so, you know, vehemously, you know, in declaring, it wasn't, he wasn't arguing for transubstantiation. I mean, he broke from that, but yet he did still, you know, he, what he came to was believing that he is present.

In, around, and under the elements. Yes, that's right. Yes, that is right.

And one very serious, and probably even more serious departure that he had with Rome is that he did not worship the elements as Rome does, which is idolatry. If you're worshiping bread and wine, you are committing idolatry.

And he did not believe that the so-called mass.

Was a perpetuatory sacrifice. When you, when you have the, oh yes, yes, thank you.

And we have, let's see, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who wants to know, I do understand that it is true, and has been documented, that the epistle of James was very problematic at Luther, and he said something to the effect of, we should throw Jimmy in the stove, meaning we should get rid of that epistle.

But did he ultimately continue with that notion after he translated the Bible into German?

No, no, later. Yeah, for those of our listeners who may be new Christians, or they're not even.

Christians at all, and are unfamiliar with what we're talking about, James basically said that if you do not participate in good deeds, good works, that your faith is not genuine, it's dead. And Roman Catholics and some of the cults will take that and twist it into meaning that our works cooperate with grace into, on saving us, and our, that our works are actually meritorious.

They help us achieve a worthiness to be welcomed into heaven, or whatever the afterlife, according to each cult, may be. But James was merely saying that the works were a sign of life, that just like if you're breathing and your heart is beating, that's a sign of life, and our works are a sign of life, that we are truly regenerate.