Does God Expect Men to Find Their Huge Wives Attractive?

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There are verses in the Bible, you know, like Proverbs 5 verse 19 that say, as a loving hind and a graceful doe, let her breasts satisfy you at all times, be intoxicated always with her love.

00:15

You know, so those kinds of verses, they seem to be commanding, hey, be attracted to your wife.

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Warning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences. These audiences may include, but are not limited to, professing Christians who never read their Bible, sissies, sodomites, men with man buns, those who approve of men with man buns, man bun enablers, white knights for men with man buns, homemakers who have finished

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Netflix but don't know how to meal plan, and people who refer to their pets as fur babies. Viewer discretion is advised. People are tired of hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio.

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The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone, and any who reject

00:59

Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope of heaven.

01:07

The issue is that humanity is in sin, and the wrath of almighty

01:12

God is hanging over our heads. They will hear his words, they will not act upon him, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed, and they will perish.

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God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended, and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the

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Father, where he sits now to make intercession for us. Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

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Alright Tim, the question for today's episode is, does God expect men to find their huge wives attractive?

02:04

I guess it depends on how huge they are. Like, on a scale of, you know, normal to like Jabba the

02:11

Hutt, somewhere in there is where you draw the line. There's a line.

02:18

There's like, hey, if you're a candidate for my 600 -pound life, is that before the line or after the line?

02:27

Jared So, part of what's happening here is that, I mean, there's just a natural, normal intuition that is pretty universal.

02:34

I mean, when people see the, you know, my 600 -pound life, people instantaneously, like in the abstract, if you were to look at those kind of people, you know that they're not going to win any beauty pageants or beauty contests or anything.

02:46

But what about inner beauty, Tim? Tim Well, yeah,

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I think whatever inner beauty a person might have would probably be non -existent if they actually let themselves get to be 600 pounds too.

03:05

Pete Yeah, I mean, I guess there's got to be some kind of character issue there if you're getting to 600 pounds, right?

03:12

Tim Yeah, I mean, it's - Pete At least generally. Tim We're not gnostics, so I mean, the way that you take care of yourself does make, have some reflection on who you are as a person and everything else.

03:23

And I've known individuals who weigh about that much and typically their character matches their external in that way too.

03:32

But I think the idea is that part of what's happening is you have a change in culture that we're undergoing right now, meaning like people, men and women in general, like men, men, women, it doesn't really matter, everyone, everyone is just getting fatter and fatter and fatter.

03:49

So we're living in a time right now where obesity rates are just skyrocketing.

03:57

I mean, and this is like significantly different than even when I was growing up as a kid, just the level of fatness that is characteristic of the culture of society we live in.

04:07

But then if you look at pictures of like individuals, like beach photos or something like that of people in the 50s or something where they had much more modest swimsuits and everything else, but then everyone was pretty much thin and skinny.

04:20

Pete Yeah, yeah. Jared I mean, you can see pictures like that online and then compare that with the general experience that an individual might have walking into Walmart today or something.

04:31

Pete Dude, even just, I mean, just go to the beach now, like it's a whale fest, man. It's a whale fest.

04:37

Jared There's jokes to be made. So part of what's happened is that there were certain expectations that you would have, like in the way that pastors talked about this topic of attraction in general, there were certain expectations that you had that seemed to fit a past society a little better, but then they maybe weren't, like we came up with certain principles, like pastors in general, the principles that talk about weight and how that relates to a husband and wife and attraction kind of issues, they came up with these kinds of principles that were a bit one -sided, okay?

05:18

So they're one -sided principles of attraction that seem to fit a different kind of society, but then when you survey what's actually happening today, it causes you to take a step back and question, like were those principles good to begin with, okay?

05:38

So what I mean when I say that they were one -sided was that, you know, growing up, the kind of sermons that I hear,

05:44

I've heard my whole life. I've heard these kinds of sermons my whole life. There's an expectation that if a woman is not attracted to her husband, it's probably because he has all sorts of character issues that he needs to work on.

06:00

So like on his end of things, like on the husband end of things, there's always been this expectation, and that's what

06:06

I mean it was a bit of a double standard. There's always been an expectation that if the wife wasn't like attracted to her husband, it was because he had character issues that he needed to be resolved, that he would definitely need to resolve, and it was something that he needed to earn, right?

06:23

So like if your wife isn't attracted to you, I mean, how many sermons and stuff have you heard along these lines, like go take her on a date or whatever, go buy her flowers, or start being nice to her, or talk to her more.

06:35

You can't just ignore her all day long and then expect her to be in the mood or whatever, that kind of stuff. But I mean, but there's this expectation that you can't just take for granted that your wife is just going to desire you and want you.

06:50

And in fact, if you're sitting around whining and fussing about like, oh, my wife doesn't desire me or whatever, and she doesn't want to have intimacy with me, then you're just a baby, and you need to grow up, and you need to earn it and be like, be attractive.

07:03

Like if she's not attracted to you, like figure out how to be attractive for her, right?

07:09

So I mean, growing up, that was, that's just the standard state of affairs, and nothing has changed along those lines, like at all, right?

07:18

Yeah, like from the expectation of the men, right? From the expectation of a man, there's nothing that's changed.

07:23

So like the man, basically, if your wife isn't attracted to her, will be more attractive. And typically, that didn't necessarily involve like physical things, right?

07:36

In the same kind of way, because men and women are different. So it didn't, it doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean go and work out and go to the gym or something like that.

07:45

It might be that what that might mean is like, hey, like relationally talk to her more, be nicer to her, quit being so harsh with her, listen to her, pay attention, you know, have special quality time with her, you know?

07:59

And all of that would apply. But then on the other end of things, what's happened is like, we used to live in a culture where when women were overweight, like women would eat like birds, right?

08:12

Like we used to live in a kind of culture and society where like you'd have a man plate that was a full plate, and then a woman's plate of food, which was like a, you know, a quarter of that or something like that.

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And that in that kind of society, like women were just very self -conscious about their weight kind of thing.

08:30

And if they were overweight, they were overweight by like five or 10 pounds or something like that, right?

08:37

And then when they're overweight by five or 10 pounds, then it's like, they feel like, oh, I gained five pounds,

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I'm a big fatty. And then everyone, like it was society's job to basically come along and say, oh, you know, it's just five pounds, honey, like calm down, you know?

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Like a husband, like you are his standard of attraction and whatever you look like, he should be attracted to, period, the end, right?

09:01

And so it was like in that kind of world, like in the world where women were five to 10 pounds overweight kind of world, then, you know, the mean girls were the ones who came along and bullied each other for gaining that five pounds, right?

09:16

Yeah, for getting the pudge. Yeah, yeah. So, it was like, put that donut down, you know, you heifer, you know, or something like that.

09:22

But that was just the mean girls, you couldn't, like people weren't allowed to talk like that, except like women would do that, they would place each other, right?

09:30

They would place each other kind of mercilessly in that way. All right, and then the guy's job was just to just overcome her insecurity with just an unconditional blank,

09:42

I love you for who you are, don't worry about it, right? Petey The shallow howl approach.

09:49

Jared Right. Petey Have you ever seen that movie? Jared I might have, I can't attest to anything.

09:55

Petey Jack Black, he's, you know, he's like a, he's presented as like a superficial guy, womanizer,

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I think. And, you know, he like, I forget exactly what happens, but I think it's like he gets cursed by someone or something.

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And so he can only see people. He sees people physically, like what their inner beauty, inner beauty, quote, unquote, would, would represent them to be basically.

10:25

So if they were really, if they're a terrible person, they would look really ugly. And so he finds the one girl who's like, you know,

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I don't know, 300 pounds, 350 pounds, but to him, she looks like a normal, you know, 120 pound girl or, you know, however much she weighs.

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And she's, she's like, really beautiful to him in the movie. And then all his friends are like, dude, what is wrong with you?

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Like that because they just see the 350 pound girl. Jared I don't think you can make that movie anymore.

10:58

No, you definitely can't make that movie anymore. So, so thinking about that though,

11:06

I mean, I think if you, if you can imagine the scenario, the scenario as it was, was that a guy was, and still is,

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I mean, guy's expected to be attracted to his wife. So he's expected to modify himself, like figure out what's attractive to her and be that kind of person.

11:22

Right. And then on the other end, like it was the guy, like the, the guy's job was to overcome the lady's insecurity by basically telling her, like,

11:34

I love you no matter what. Right. Like, I love you no matter what. And it was his job just to unconditionally kind of affirm the woman.

11:42

And those are the standards growing up. But then part of what's happened though, is that women stop policing each other.

11:50

Okay. Yeah. You can't fat shame anymore. You can't fat shame anymore. So women have like, not only did they stop policing each other, they stopped trying.

11:58

Okay. So like, so everyone's getting fatter. The, like there's a ceasefire called on fat shaming.

12:05

Women are not allowed to like police each other now. And so then you, then what you have as you have, like, it's not just like the woman is five to 10 pounds overweight feeling like disgusted with herself because she's such a fatty or something like that.

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What's happened now is like, the woman is like 80 pounds overweight, you know, a hundred pounds overweight or whatever.

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And then everyone is just unconditionally praising her. You go girl, you're beautiful. You're definitely not going to die 20 years early from cardiac arrest.

12:39

So yeah. So now you have them all looking like Lizzo. Right. And so, but then, and then everyone's just unconditionally saying,

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Hey, you look amazing. You look wonderful. And you know, I saw one of those internet videos that were floating around where like the girls were rating each other.

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And then the guys were rating the girls afterwards or whatever. And like, so the girls were supposed to group themselves as like the, like levels of attractiveness amongst themselves.

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And so they took the baddest girl and they put her as like the most attractive out of all of them. Right. Because they lie to each other.

13:12

They just like totally lie to each other. That's what they do. Like, so they're just like women lie to each other. They don't, they, they shamelessly lie.

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And what's happening is they're filled with insecurity themselves. And so then they see that and they're trying to overcome that insecurity by just unconditional, like irrational, illogical praise.

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So it's like the mothering instinct to protect you from, you know, all the shame that you feel. And so they made her the prettiest.

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And then when the guys came along to rate the women, they put her at the end. I'm surprised, big shock, you know, did we not learn anything from watching shallow?

13:52

So the issue is guys attraction, like it hasn't changed. It's just a matter of what's allowed to be said, you know?

14:00

Now, so, so the issue is like in, like, if you, if you say, if you live in this kind of society where women police themselves and they actually try, then you came up with the solution that maybe wasn't well thought out to begin with.

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But then when you transition into a society like ours right now, where women are just like, they're not five to 10 pounds overweight, like that's not what you're talking about anymore.

14:23

Like struggling with their obesity at five or 10 pounds overweight. Like you're talking about they're 80 pounds overweight, you know, or a hundred pounds overweight there, you know, they're 50 pounds overweight, they're 60 pounds overweight.

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And they, and it's not just like that. It's not just that like, um, they're 50, 60, 80 pounds overweight and have a nice attitude.

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It's like, they feel all the guilt and shame and have all the physical problems that come with being 50, 60 pounds overweight.

14:51

Okay. Like they do like they, so they, they, they are constantly thinking they're sick, going to the hospital, doing all this stuff, like feeling miserable all the time and weighed down with all this guilt and shame.

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And then it's the guy's job like now to come along and just whatever he has, like, like the expectation is that he doesn't get to find anything attractive like the woman does.

15:18

He just has to unconditionally, whatever he has no qualifications whatsoever, or he's in the wrong.

15:26

Right? So, but then that just - Petey And you're talking about this, just to be clear, this isn't, you know, the larger context of what we're talking about is not even necessarily a situation where a guy, you know, marries a girl who is already overweight, right?

15:44

This is like, you're talking about the guy who's married someone and then, and then they, you know, once they're married, it's like the wife gets to a point where it's like, well,

15:53

I don't have to take care of myself anymore. I've got someone there with me now, you know, you can't leave me now.

16:01

I'm going to get lazy. Jared It's the internet meme where the, the, the, the, the bride is standing there in her wedding dress with a sly grin on her face next to her husband and the text box above her face says, now

16:14

I can get fat, you know, it's that kind of thing. Well, yeah, so what's happening now is that, right?

16:22

You basically, you're in a situation where we've adopted a set of rules that say that women are allowed to find certain things attractive and not, and if you want her to be attracted to you, you have to meet her expectations.

16:36

And then on the other end, it's like guys have never, they've never been allowed to have things that are attractive to them that women are expected to meet, you know?

16:46

So, I mean, it used to be obvious that men were allowed to find things attractive. It may be like before my time, but by my time it had gotten to the point where growing up where you just kind of need to accept them for who they are that spend the preaching or whatever.

17:02

So we've lost the, the notion that men and women are different. They have different things they find desirable. And then now we're at a point where we're just stuck with that rule, like the double standard, and we don't even know what to do.

17:12

But then if you push it out into the extreme, then you, you, it does cause you to think, well, have we thought this through?

17:21

Jared Like, so if you have the 600 -pound woman, it's like, and you're the husband and she used to be 120 pounds or whatever, you know, she was 120, now she's, you know, 600 pounds.

17:32

It's like, do you really, like, is that the way attraction works? Pete Yeah, like, am

17:38

I supposed to, am I, you know, sinning against God if I'm not attracted to Rasputia?

17:45

Jared Right. Pete Have you seen, yeah, have you seen that one? Tell me you've seen that one. Jared I have, I haven't seen that. Pete Eddie Murphy.

17:52

Jared Oh, I've, I know what you're talking about. Pete Yeah, Rasputia, man. Jared Norbit, the nutty professor.

18:00

Pete A sin against God, you know, if I'm not attracted to Rasputia. She's my wife.

18:08

Jared See, and I think that that's where, you know, men obviously have desired physical beauty much more than women desire physical attractiveness, and that's why you can have, like, very average -looking men marrying very pretty women, because women desire other things.

18:22

So, men and women are fundamentally wired different, and you used to be in a society where everyone knew that, hey, you know, if you want a guy to like you, you're going to have to try, you know, and now you're in a kind of society where it's like, you don't have to try at all, and everyone's going to come and basically just praise you, like, everyone's just going to praise you incessantly and say that you're amazing.

18:40

But then deep down, everyone knows it's a lie. We're just lying to each other. Jared And so then, you know, but then, like, the worst thing you can do is just as a man now is to say, hey, you know, you're 300 pounds, honey.

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Like, that's, I don't know what to do with that, you know? Like, that isn't stirring me.

19:02

You know? Like, you're not allowed to say that.

19:08

Like, if you say that, it's just like, oh, like, how dare you? But then what's really bizarre about it is on the other end, the guy who ignores the wife all day long, who's harsh with the wife, who's rude to the wife, everyone's like, well, do you want her to be attracted to you or not, right?

19:23

So, what you have is you have to figure out, well, what are the rules here, you know, in a plan? Yeah. I mean, it feels weird.

19:30

It feels really strange to say, like, hey, you know what, wife, if you don't find your husband attractive and, you know, it's obviously because he's doing something wrong and you need to confront him over it, right?

19:46

Like, as it, I mean, like, hey, he needs to take you on dates, you know, and he needs to buy you things and he needs to talk to you and, you know, well,

19:59

I mean, whatever it is, you know, he needs to, I've seen a lot of people that are, you know, they go the whole, like, hey, you know, your husband needs to date you still, basically.

20:13

Well, all that is presupposing the idea that they have a responsibility to continually win your affections, right?

20:21

Right, right. Yeah, and, you know, I'm not even saying the, you know, like, if your husband's neglecting you, then, like, yeah, that's a problem, but then it feels weird on the same side or on the,

20:36

I mean, on the other side of it to say, hey, like, you know, my wife does nothing to, like, there's nothing that I see her do to try make herself attractive to me in any way possible.

20:52

You know, should I confront her? No, no, please don't do that.

20:57

Jared Yeah, see, so, that's where, I think that's where you have to decide what the rules are of this project and then you have to think through what is the

21:06

Bible saying at this point too, you know? So, like, what is the Bible saying about attraction? Is attraction the same thing as love, you know?

21:16

And so, when I was asking this question online, I mean, routinely, pretty much the standard response is people would pull up verses which talk about the husband's responsibility to love his wife, and I'm just looking at that and I'm saying, well, that's entirely missing the point of the conversation, okay?

21:35

Like, meaning, yeah, obviously a husband should love his wife like Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, but then,

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I mean, obviously, like, attraction is something that's a little bit different than, like, than love, okay?

21:50

Like, so, in that kind of framework, you know, if the idea is a husband needs to be, like, to love his wife, it, you know, what people are taking for granted is that, like, in order to, like, when you're talking about something like sexual attraction, you're talking about something like love, you're talking about things that connect in certain ways but then they're different, you know?

22:10

So, I mean, like, that husband can, like, how should he love his 600 -pound wife if he's married to the 600 -pound woman?

22:17

Jared Well, maybe not feed her so much. Pete Laughter Jared You know, love for her might look like, hey, not being, like, rude to her, not being, like, a jerk to her, not, you know, abusing her, whatever that means, yeah, but love might mean, like, actually being thankful for her, but then it might also mean, you know, confronting her about her gluttony, it also might mean, you know, reducing her food rations, that kind of stuff, but then, like, the idea of being, like, you're talking, when you're talking about attraction, you're talking about, like, bodily responses, right?

22:53

And then women know this with men, like, so husband wants to have intimacy with his wife and the wife doesn't, like, nothing's happening for her, right?

23:04

So everyone feels like it's his job to figure out how to help her get ready for what they're talking about, whereas, like, the way that a man's libido works is it typically kind of works on autopilot, it just, you know, has a mind of its own, so to speak, and, you know, that's just the way things are, but then at a certain point, like, if you have people who are trying to make themselves as repulsive to you as they possibly can, biology might kick in at a certain point, right?

23:34

Pete Right. Yeah, so, I mean, I bring this example up because I think it's funny, but then it is meant to be a serious, it's not meant to be just, like, a reductio ad absurdum or whatever, but,

23:45

I mean, if you just picture the 600 -pound man on the couch and his wife, Peter, with Cheeto stained fingers and, you know, food crumbs all over his body and hasn't taken a bath in a few weeks, hasn't brushed his teeth, you know, he has a rancid breath that smells, like, smells as bad as his

24:01

B .O., and then if he, you can imagine him and just, like, looking at his wife and saying, hey, desire me,

24:07

I will command you to desire me, you know, it's like, well, you want to make this as bad as you possibly can, like, are you sure?

24:16

Pete Hey, I'm not a miracle worker, man. Jared I mean, I'm not, and I'm not trying to say that God can't give, you know, that wife sacrificial love for that man and everything else, but,

24:31

I mean, she may have to get, like, a clothes hanger, you know, and put it on her nose, right, and, like, close her eyes or something like that.

24:42

Pete Golly, man. Jared I mean, just to get rid of the smell, you know, like, you just imagine, like, the smell and the stench and the, you know, salty.

24:55

Pete That's good. I'm good. I'm killed in on the picture here. I don't think we need any more.

25:02

Jared All right, so, we're embodied people, we have five senses, you know, you can make it as hard as possible or you can make it easier, okay?

25:12

And so, Dick, when you think about something like the picture of, like, marital intimacy and the

25:17

Song of Songs, it wasn't, like, not bathed in a month, and food, you know, my bed is,

25:26

I prepared my bed with oil and spices and all that, it's like, I prepared my bed with Pringle crumbs, and, you know, so, but,

25:38

I mean, the larger - Pete Someone needs to write that version of Song of Solomon just to see how terrible it sounds.

25:44

Jared 21st century version of, like, but that's the thing, so, like, in the

25:50

Bible, there's this expectation that you're going to try to make this good for the person, and then what you have is you have, like, a, you know, a biblically, like, a biblically -minded person is going to have, like, a big allowance for, hey, no one's perfect, and, you know, we're all fallen, we're living in a fallen world.

26:10

Morning kisses, they're just never going to be, they're just never going to be that fresh, you know?

26:19

Pete I'm sure mine's just as bad, probably worse. Jared So, in a biblical worldview, like, if you're living in the society where the women are, you know, five to ten pounds overweight tormenting yourself, yeah, sure, your job is probably going to be to come over, come along and put them at ease, you know, if you're living in the society where they're shameless and now they're at a point where they're 80 pounds overweight, you know, and they're all congratulating each other about how, you know, wonderful they are, they're 100 pounds overweight, whatever, at a certain point, you just get to this breaking point where it's just like,

26:56

I think you're not trying at all, and you're not helping things, you're making it harder on yourself, you're making it harder on me, you're just sabotaging the project, so maybe we could try a little bit for each other and not push it to the breaking point.

27:08

I don't know where the breaking point is, and my interest is not defining the breaking point, my interest is just to say something obvious, is that -

27:17

Pete There should be a breaking point somewhere. Jared At some point, there's a breaking point where you basically have adopted a posture that says, love me if you can, and you can push someone so far to where you're just totally demoralizing them, you get what

27:36

I'm saying? Pete Yeah. Jared Your finger in their eye at every point, and you're doing everything the exact opposite of what they're made to find attractive, at a certain point, it's like, don't expect them to be attracted to you, you have to try some, okay?

27:52

Pete Right. Jared If you're not trying at all, then at some point, like, don't expect this to be a wonderful experience for anyone, right?

27:59

Like, that's just not the way it works, they're not gonna be, you know, a 600 pound person shouldn't be anyone's standard of beauty,

28:06

I don't care if you're married to them. That's not the way it works, you know? So, like, so these cliches we throw out to say, hey, whatever your wife is, that should be your standard of beauty, that's not really the way it works, okay?

28:22

Like that, like meaning, now that doesn't mean that then that a husband, if, you know, his wife is 300 pounds can just say, well,

28:30

I guess, you know, I'm gonna go take care of these desires elsewhere. And that's what people immediately go to, but it's like, that's not even the conversation we're having.

28:37

I don't even know why you're even thinking that, like, we're not, we're not having that conversation, we're having a conversation about, you know, does he, is he morally required to be attracted to you, no matter how many repulsive things you do, right?

28:53

Tanner Right. Jared And so, no, like you can gross people out, and we used to know that, right? So, if you wanted your wife to be grossed out, then pass gas in the middle of lovemaking, you know, on the bed or something like that, whatever, like that's, you wanna gross her out, there's ways to gross her out, and we used to know that, and then we just only know it as it relates to one gender, basically.

29:13

Tanner So, last question, you know, there are verses in the Bible, you know, like Proverbs 5 verse 19 that say, as a loving hind and a graceful doe, let her breasts satisfy you at all times, be intoxicated always with her love.

29:32

You know, so, those kinds of verses, they seem to be, they seem to be commanding, hey, be attracted to your wife, right?

29:42

Be intoxicated by her love, you know, be attracted to her physically. So, how do verses like that play into this conversation?

29:52

Jared Yeah, I mean, I think it's very simple to think about how something like that works. So, Proverbs 5 verse 19, a lovely deer, a graceful doe, let her breasts fill you at all times with delight.

30:02

So, that's basically, it's written in the form of an imperative, I mean, it's a proverb, right?

30:08

Which is just talking about how married life should work. Jared So, it's a statement of wisdom in that way, but then, like, it should be fairly obvious, though, that if you have a wife who refuses to have intercourse with her husband, he's not in sin, right?

30:25

Tanner He's not in sin, right, yeah. Jared Let her breasts fill you at all times with delight. What if she doesn't let you look at them?

30:31

What if she doesn't let you touch them? What if, you know, what if she doesn't let you enjoy them?

30:38

Jared Then there's a very hard kind of, like, what you have is you have an instruction that is only possible if both parties are participating, okay?

30:52

Tanner Right. Jared So, like, meaning you have instruction given to a married couple to say, hey, you don't look elsewhere for satisfaction, look to your wife for satisfaction, and that's essentially what's being communicated.

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Look to your wife to satisfy your sexual desires. But then, there's been plenty of men throughout the history of the world who have been in situations where their wives do not want to be the source of that sexual satisfaction for them, and so, they're just sitting there in this posture that says, hey,

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I'm looking to you, honey, and, you know, what's being returned back to them is I don't want to be desired, right?

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Tanner Right. Jared And so, then the next part of that says, be intoxicated always in her love. Well, if she's not giving you love, you can't be intoxicated in it.

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Do you get what I'm saying? Tanner Yeah. Jared Like, meaning, so, like, there's a sense in which you're called to desire your wife to be intoxicated in her, to be thrilled with her, but that assumes she's willing to participate, and that assumes she's willing to try, and, you know, when you're talking about something like the 600 -pound wife, whatever she's giving you, she's not giving you love to be intoxicated in.

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She's giving you contempt, right? Tanner Uh -huh. Jared Like, she's giving you utter hatred and contempt, and, you know, like,

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I don't, I care about you and your desires and the things that matter to you so little that I'm going to do nothing to try to help you desire me.

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In fact, I'm going to make myself as undesirable of an individual as I possibly can, and then

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I'm going to still demand that not only do you praise me, you know, and try to figure out how to get rid of my insecurities, but then also you don't look elsewhere for these things, right?

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So, like, what you're in is you're in this impossible situation where you're basically in this situation where you have an individual saying, love me if you can, right?

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Tanner Yeah. Jared So, I'm going to do everything that's contrary to what would actually make me a desirable person to you, and then

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I'm going to demand that you actually not only desire me, but then desire me exclusively and no one else. And then,

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I'm not even going to probably, you know, when women are that size, I mean, they're not even letting their husbands desire them at all anyways.

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Tanner Right. Jared They're just, don't touch me, I feel gross, you know, I don't want anything to do with you and all that.

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So, I mean, you're just, like, what you have is you have commands given to a man to pursue a willing woman, right?

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And the assumption is that she's going to be willing and trying and helpful. Now, I mean, when you get to the, you know, where is this line,

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I don't know, my interest is not so much in talking about the line as much as just talking about the principles behind the conversation in general.

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And the principles behind it is that men should be trying to figure out, they have a responsibility to figure out what is attractive to their wife, like, biblically attractive, like, right, not just, like, in unrealistic standards kind of thing, but, like, what is legitimately attractive to her and try to be that to the glory of God.

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And then the same thing works on the other end, where women have a legitimate responsibility to try to figure out what is attractive to my husband.

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And you can't just, like, and this happens in both ways. So, you have men who are basically taking anything the wife might think of as attractive and, you know, saying, oh, yeah, you know, that's unrealistic and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And then you have women doing the same thing on the other end, like, anything a man might actually find attractive, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, you're influenced by porn and you're, you know, all that, and I'm never going to be perfect, and I'm not going to be an

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Instagram fitness model and whatever else. It's just like, hey, the issue is both of you should be trying to be those person, an attractive person to the other person, while at the same time realizing the charms deceitful abuting is feigning, the woman who fears the

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Lord will be praised. So, you know, no one's going to be perfect, but we should both be trying. And to the extent to which you both are making an effort to try, that's even more attractive than just saying, you know, be attracted to me, period, the end.

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Pete Okay. Fair enough. This has been another episode of Bible Bashed.

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Now, go boldly and obey the truth in the midst of a biblically illiterate world who will be perpetually offended by your every move.