June 26, 2024 Show with Roger Salter on “The Force of Truth: Rediscovering the 18th Century Anglican Thomas Scott”

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Today I have a returning guest. He's one of my favorite guests to interview, and he has become a favorite guest of many in my audience over the years.

In fact, I've had this dear brother on my program since the earliest days of Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio when we began broadcasting out of WNYG and WGBB Radio on Long Island, New York, and he has continued to bless us with his presence on Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio after we relocated and relaunched in Pennsylvania.

His name will be no stranger to most of our listeners, uh, Reverend Roger Salter, an ordained minister and a confessional reformed

Anglican adhering to the 39 Articles of Religion as a faithful summary of the inerrant teachings of the

Holy Scriptures. And today we're going to be addressing the force of truth, how the biblically trained mind of the 18th century

Anglican Thomas Scott needs to be rediscovered and gleaned from today.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, Reverend Roger Salter.

Many thanks indeed, Chris. It's great to be logged in at last, and it's always a privilege to be with you.

Well, if you could start off by letting our listeners know something about this figure from church history,

Thomas Scott. Well, Chris, it's largely and it animates me greatly.

It's largely to the title of his book that grips me, The Force of Truth, because there are many forces operative within the church of God today whose effect is extremely negative.

Great forces operative in the church. We could all jot down a long list,

I'm sure. But I think of forces in the church as intellect, academy, emotion, fanaticism, skepticism, doctrinal laxity, error, and lately, in such a shocking way, great evils of thought and behavior.

And it seems the great and necessary and preeminent force that is lacking in the church today is the force of truth.

And sometimes even we who declare it do not declare it as a force.

Sometimes it's done apologetically or quietly, or to a certain extent, with a craven attitude, because we don't want to be marked out as extremists.

It's a very British tendency to want to be in the middle, moderate all the time.

I don't think anybody who's actually doing the work of God is truly or willingly moderate.

We've got to be very decisive about proclaiming the word of God.

After all, God in his eternal decision, he determined to give us his word.

And there's no greater authority or force in all creation than the word of God, because the creation itself emerged from the word of God.

And when we think of all the forces and powers within creation, all those emerge from God, his will, his energy.

So I am thinking that what the church really needs in these days, and has lost because it's not truly reformational in the character that it's assumed, because the church no longer holds the truth in its entirety, in its full force, we have compromises.

Even people who say, I'm reformed, keep it a secret, or whisper what they think.

And we should have the courage to teach exactly and forcefully what

God has revealed to us. And that is the full content of Holy Scripture. And I'm going to be blunt today.

It is the full force of Calvinism, whether you want to call it Calvinism, or Augustinianism.

This is the truth that God donated to the church. Everything to do with grace and goodness emerges from God's eternal sovereign will.

And he will bestow certain blessings upon people that is his province.

And so his grace is his to distribute as far and wide, and in particular, to certain people as he chooses.

He is sovereign over his creation. He is sovereign over the race. He is sovereign over all sinners, of which we are a part.

And he is sovereign over all those who are called to enjoy eternal redemption.

So that's the great and preeminent force that is lacking in the church of today.

And I'm reminded of that wonderful verse in John 6, 45, where John speaks of divine selection of those who are to be redeemed.

They will be all taught by God. If we are taught by God and hold his truth within our hearts, because he personally is within our hearts and minds, there will be a force from which his message emerges.

Now, I'm assuming that you would agree with me that although we are never to be moderate in our views, because in essence, being moderate means that you are in some way attempting to accommodate men by diminishing the strength of truth, the importance of certain truthful aspects of the

Scripture, depending upon who it is you are trying to accommodate. We are always to fear

God infinitely more than men, and we are always to seek to please him infinitely more than men.

But that does not mean that we are not to be charitable and ironic when we have interaction and fellowship with those with whom we disagree on secondary and tertiary areas.

For instance, if a Reformed Anglican is invited to speak at a

Presbyterian church, he doesn't have to cram down the throats of the audience there the ecclesiology of Anglicanism.

And if a Reformed Baptist is preaching at a Presbyterian church, he doesn't have to cram credo or believer -only baptism down the throats of the listeners.

We can have those animated and vigorous discussions with our brethren, and we should when we disagree over those things.

But that doesn't mean that we have to always bring them up in every circumstance. Would I be stating something according to your agreed beliefs on this?

Absolutely, Chris. I mean, sometimes a force, strong and irresistible, can be very gentle, like the call of God when he says, you know, all those who come to me only come because of the divine work of interior revelation.

I think it means that we are balanced, even -keeled, fair to those who disagree with us, hoping to understand their reasons for that, but nonetheless stating boldly, but inoffensively,

I mean in terms of presentation and courtesy, and not giving anyone reason to be angry with us, although they will blame us for uttering this truth.

I have to say this, Chris, and some people think I've got a, I don't know, an obsession with this, but for me, salvation begins with the mind and intention of God, and that is predestination.

That is God's selection of his people and the passing by of other sinners, leaving them to the sin that they love and for which they deserve a penalty.

Nobody is wronged in predestination, but there are people whom

God has given his grace to repent and believe. They don't even come through to that conclusion that it was electing love, but nonetheless, it is an electing love.

It is a tenderness and compassion of God to redeem those whom he has chosen secretly for himself, and I think it's the most comforting doctrine on the whole that emerges from Holy Scripture.

It teaches us that the atonement has a definite outcome, that effectual calling is the great force that draws us into the kingdom, that the perseverance of the saints is the preservation of those whom the

Lord has chosen for being destined to be citizens of his eternal kingdom.

So I really take your point, Chris. It's not being immoderate in temper, but in, you know,

Scripture is inspired to teach us this doctrine, and we are to imitate the teaching of Scripture.

Amen, and one thing that I find interesting is that none of those who are vehement opponents to the doctrines you and I embrace and cherish and treasure, namely the doctrines of sovereign grace and also nicknamed reform theology and Calvinism, as you put it earlier, none of those systems opponents will, or at least very few,

I should say, will have sleepless nights after a loved one dies who died without Christ.

They will not torment themselves that they did not do enough to evangelize these people and evangelize them correctly and evangelize them with the right spirit and manner, and we could go on and on and on, and yet if their system of theology is true, they should be blaming themselves, at least in part, for that one dying and perishing in their sin, because if it is completely left up to the free will of the sinner to embrace the truth, and it's also then therefore consequently left up to the articulate nature and the demeanor and manner with which the gospel proclaimer is presenting that message, there is always something more we could do, and we are never sinless on this earth when it comes to the frequency with which we spread the gospel and the love that we pour into that and the humility that we pour into that and the compassion that we pour into that.

We're all to blame in one sense or another, but we cannot, thanks be to God, ultimately blame ourselves for someone dying in their sin, because we who are

Reformed know that ultimately the choice was God's. Am I overstating the case?

Yes, no, not overstating it. All I would say is that every sinner, but if you want to say from a

Christian background or pagan background, has the law of God etched into their consciences.

They know they are sinning, and they prefer it, and they prefer to be untouched.

Yes, exactly. It's fully explained there. So, every sinner who perishes is absolutely responsible for their own sad fate, and of course when the books are opened, that is

God revealing our conscience to ourselves, and no condemned sinner can argue against the verdict.

It's there written across my conscience, and my conscience struck me with shame or regret for doing, and sometimes my conscience is so hard I don't even care that I've done it, but it's all written in the conscience, the books that are going to be opened on the day of judgment.

The sinner will agree with God. The sinner will agree with God. There it is. It's written in me.

Yes, I did not mean to indicate that the sinner is not responsible for obeying

Christ. I meant that the evangelist does not determine the eternal destiny of the audience to that gospel proclamation.

That's where I was coming from, obviously. Yes, I never felt there was anything opposite to that that you said,

Chris. It's just that our words only carry home if the Holy Spirit does that, like Samuel's words, not falling to the ground, but they are the words of God applied to the heart because we at least are meeting our responsibility to relay those words accurately and with honesty to the people that we're dealing with.

Now, what is it, especially in this book, whose title you have chosen for our theme today,

The Force of Truth, what is it within the pages of this book by Thomas Scott, who, as I mentioned earlier, was an 18th and actually early 19th century as well,

Anglican theologian, Reformed Anglican theologian, who had correspondence with the beloved and renowned author of the hymn

Amazing Grace, John Newton? Yes. But what is it specifically in this book,

The Force of Truth, that is perhaps uncommon in the 21st century and not explored enough and proclaimed enough in modern -day pulpits?

Yes, I think it is precisely this. I'm speaking very generally because I know there are exceptions, but very generally the church in our time is so lukewarm it doesn't care about the truth of God.

It will do anything it can to get numbers and popularity, which is not the point.

Our point is to call the chosen of God to their conversion. The outcome of that is

God's choice and God's work. We are to be people and called ministers are to be people who relay the divine revelation, that is the message of the prophets, including the apostles.

And present -day preachers are to imitate the prophets in their declaration of the word.

And I like an expression of an Old Testament specialist from the early 20th century,

Walter Eichrod. He refers to us as mere, he's talking about ships back in the 30s, we are speaking tubes, relaying the captain's voice to the crew.

We are nothing more than speaking tubes. The Lord has given us his word.

We get out of the way and through prayer and through obedience to God, we, as best we can, as sinful, fallible men, declare to others the divine revelation.

It has to be handled with such reverence, with such care, with adequate preparation, and a sober, supple mind before the

Holy Spirit to ensure that in our preparation and delivery, as far as is humanly possible, with whatever capacity

God has given us, to relate without compromise the full force of the divine revelation.

It doesn't have to be a brutal or hard force. I mean, I have a wife who loves me, and I am forced to love her, but I'm not being beaten into that unwillingly.

I am wooed to her. And that's the idea that God woos us with such an attraction.

That's what the, what is it, the effectual calling happens to be.

The Lord Jesus appears to us in all his aptness to our condition as a rebel and in all his beauty as a saviour of mercy and donor of eternal blessedness.

So, he wins us over by showing his loveliness and the fact that he suits our condition.

So, that is a force that is an attraction that isn't in any way brutal or contrary to our free agency.

It wins over and gives us a new will. As Ezekiel says,

I will give you new hearts, but regeneration must proceed that conversion.

And the lovely thing about Scott and Newton's mutual correspondence is that you can see

Scott moving gradually to the conviction that the doctrines that he hates,

I'll say it again, Calvinism. Anglicanism is a Calvinistic church. Nothing to do with Calvin.

It's to do with historical Augustinianism that has always been present in the church and taught in the church by great men of God.

But Calvin just gets branded with it because for some reason or other, he's been portrayed as a sort of bogeyman.

And we all know that's based on a lie too. But the idea is that Calvinism or the understanding of the sovereignty of God in salvation, adhered to by many before the

Reformation, is the truth of God's electing love designated for us according to his eternal purpose before the creation of the world.

And that is a truth that we must emphasize because in the ultimate sense of dependency upon God, we need that doctrine to draw us to him in full trust and total dependence.

And nothing makes you more dependent upon God than our utter helplessness and then his saving might.

I think it's a doctrine that cultivates great love for God and great comfort for the

Christian. Amen. Hallelujah. And we have to go to our first commercial break.

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today and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Roger Salter, who is an ordained minister and a theologically reformed and confessional

Anglican, and our theme today is The Force of Truth, which is also the theme of a book that was available through The Banner of Truth by the 18th and early 19th century

Anglican theologian Thomas Scott. Unfortunately, this book is out of print, and the only copies you'll be able to get these days are used copies or perhaps the final copies that are available at different book outlets like cvbbs .com.

Perhaps they have some books left, but if you have a question for our guest, submit it to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Roger, one of the things that I found fascinating about Thomas Scott is that he has something in common with Abraham Kuyper in that both men, even though they were ministers, discovered that they were not truly born -again believers and thankfully came to the point where they truly did come to genuine repentance and faith by God's mercy and grace, and it reminds me of a very important element of truth is that we use the scriptures, the only inerrant truth that we have, even when examining whether we are truly a child of God.

We cannot base that on some one -time past experience.

We cannot base that on any kind of emotion. It has to be based on the Word of God, doesn't it?

It absolutely does, Chris. I find one of the real helps to this is the valley of vision where the sources of those prayers are so honest about their varying condition before God, and it's like the

Psalms as well. We are very variable in our nature, and some days we are very sure of things and other days we are not.

But I think that we have to be honest with the

Lord. He knows what we're thinking anyway, so we're not hiding anything from him.

It's to come to him and address him openly about our concerns.

I mean, I'm trying to think of the Yorkshire Anglican Grimshaw.

He actually asked God that he could have an inward sign or token that he was a genuine

Christian, and I think that might be possible for some people, even like Charles Wesley after Aldergate, you know, that God does give some people a bonus.

It doesn't last forever. It's not as if it's infallibly there, but they just need that extra little bit of a push or encouragement.

But fundamentally, it's a matter of faith without props, and that is believing the

Word of God without any other prop or any other support but the fact that God says it.

And so, we are to read Scripture and read it over and over again until we can sense that I do believe this.

I do know this. I know it's God's truth. Therefore, I can depend upon it.

But I think that Scott's life is a sort of diagram of the gradual and merciful calling of the

Lord to certain people. I extracted three or four very brief quotes from his autobiography that illustrate this.

Chris, if I could just... First of all, when he started ministry,

Scott wanted a vocation that would give him plenty of time to read and to think and to work ultimately for a great reputation as a man of worth and thought.

And so, on page 12 of his document, as far as I understand such controversies, that's the

Arminian, semi -Pelagian Arminian, I was nearly a Socinian and Pelagian and holy in Arminian.

You know, I say this and people can say I'm cheeky and overstating it. There should be no

Arminian preachers in Anglicanism. It's our stated doctrine.

It's there for general understanding. If that isn't a confession of faith, I don't know what is and how men can get up and tongue -in -cheek mouth all these words of loyalty to the articles and not care one bit about what they're saying, which is what he did and was convinced of it as great sin.

Yet, to my shame, he had spoken. I sought to obtain admission into the ministry in a church whose doctrines are diametrically opposed to all three.

It's a sin. And in most Anglican ordination services now, that sin is repeated.

There's no conviction for it. Everybody says, well, who believes the articles?

They're 300 or 400 years old. The Bible's much older. And so, we derive that truth from the ancient scriptures.

And then he says in the introduction, he's ever introducing the book, it must be remembered that Scott was an avowed

Calvinist. He'd become settled in his mind concerning the issues of the

Arminian Calvinist controversy. That is not settled anymore within the

Church of England. It's supposed to be a bygone issue. And this is what he says a little later on.

I was nearly as so Sinian and Pelagian and holy in Arminian. See, that is a heresy.

Yet, to my shame, he had spoken. I sought to obtain admission into the ministry in a church whose doctrines are diametrically opposed to all the three without once concerning myself about those barriers which the wisdom of our forefathers has placed around her purposely to prevent the intrusion of such dangerous heretics as I then was.

And you see, he regards Arminianism as a heresy. That's not worried about in the

Church of England anymore. You can think and say what you like, even though you say you recognize the articles.

They're a museum piece from four centuries ago. And that's the problem of the

Church of England and the Episcopal Church worldwide. It no longer has the protection, the barriers that encourage orthodoxy that the articles afford us.

So the Church of England, because that's what I still am, and Anglicanism throughout the world, is a liar.

It's a lying organization. And the lies are coming out, and the lies are getting worse, and the morals are now dreadful.

People having Sunday night cabaret shows in cathedrals and churches and bringing in everybody in their smart dancing uniforms that are virtually naked and dancing in the aisles and where the communion is administered.

This is so shocking, and it's so shocking that people don't notice it anymore.

The Arminians deny the doctrines of gratuitous personal election to eternal life and the final perseverance of all true believers, and numbers of them hold the doctrine of justification by works.

Yes, 50 % of evangelicals now think works play a part in our justification, in part at least, and verge in some degree to the

Pelagian system in respect to the final moving cause in the conversion of sinners.

And I believe on page 28, it is a paragraph, but I think it's worth reading,

Chris. The blasphemous approach of Anglicanism as a world institution.

Thus, with a heart full of pride and wickedness, my life polluted with many unrepentant, unforsaken sins, without one cry for mercy, one prayer for direction or assistance or blessing upon what

I was about to do, and having concealed my real sentiments under the mask of general expressions, after having subscribed articles directly contrary to what

I believed, and after having blasphemously declared in the presence of God and of the congregation and in the most solemn manner, sealing it with the

Lord's Supper, that I judged myself to be inwardly moved by the Holy Ghost to take that office upon me, not knowing or believing that there was a

Holy Ghost. On September 20th, 1772, I was ordained a deacon.

Hundreds of Anglican clergy could echo those words and they don't care about it.

When I moved into my first Anglican church, my vicar was away and a substitute came and he said, you don't have to do anything before you come to communion except feel that you're all one community.

Trash, damning trash, and the Anglican church is weak because it's lost 39 strong vitamins that ought to be taken daily.

Anglican clergy ought to read their articles at least once a week and the litany as well, because these fortify the souls of the people and especially the ministers who have to be strong on their

Lord's Days to declare the truth well. Amen.

Have you completed what you wanted to read, Roger? I'm sorry.

That's quite all right, brother. Our guest has moved to tears, so please be patient with him.

It's refreshing to see people who care so much about God's truth that it would even move them to tears during a live broadcast where they just can't control what is happening due to a reflection upon God's truth as compared to the abandonment of that truth and would you like me to read a question?

Yes, please. Okay, we have quite a number of questions from a single listener,

Donald Veatch. I usually don't give the full name of listeners, of listeners, but Donald is one of the most faithful Anglican listeners in our program who thinks that you're the most faithful voice of Anglicanism in the 21st century.

He shares your Cranmerian views. For those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with that term, that would be the theology of the great

Protestant Reformation hero or English Reformation hero, Thomas Cranmer, who was executed for his faith after, in cowardice, denying the faith of Protestantism after the death of King Henry VIII when the

Roman Catholic Church seized control of the Church of England and Protestants were being persecuted and martyred.

Thomas Cranmer denied the Protestant faith which is, of course, what he believed to be the biblical faith of Christianity and it began to overwhelm him.

The guilt began to overwhelm him as to what he had done and he finally recanted his recantation and not only was burned at the stake but ran in front of his guards that were marching him there so that he could immediately plunge his hand that signed his recantation of Protestantism into the flames to be burned off first.

But that's what I mean by Cranmerian, the theology of that hero of the

English Reformation. But Donald Veitch runs the

Twiss House Facebook page and he asks,

I don't know if I'm going to be able to read all of his questions because he has quite a number of them, but he asks, should the

Anglican bodies add the 1595 Lambeth Articles, 1615

Irish Articles, and 1618 through 1619 Canons of Dort be codified in the

Book of Common Prayer alongside the Thirty -Nine Articles? He also asks, why were these ever excluded?

Are you able to respond to those specific questions? Yes, I won't say yes.

I'm not talking about competence. I'm willing to have a shot at the question.

For me, I would do that so willingly. The delegates from the

Church of England under James V were sent to the Canons of Dort, the

Dort Synod, and all of them agreed with the Canons. One of them was

Joseph Hall. I can't remember all the others off the top of my head, but they all agreed with the

Canons as concluded on the doctrine of sovereignty of grace. When they came back, there was also somebody else who was a close friend of John Davenant, those two beautiful men who wrote to each other saying, we do believe that the

Canons of Dort are fully in agreement with the teaching of the

Thirty -Nine Articles. I think they would have liked them to have been somehow included in the official statements of the

Church of England, but by that time, Arminianism had gotten a long stretch of favour and publicity under that terrible

Archbishop Lord. So, Lord tried to tame the great

Irish Archbishop Usher, and Usher wouldn't yield to it, but he did yield to the request that he set the

Irish Articles aside and take on affirmation of the

Thirty -Nine Articles. Strictly speaking, nothing was lost in that except the amplification of the

Irish Articles, which I prefer, and they were basically the template for the

Westminster Confession of Faith. And as Jim Pecker says, historically, the

Westminster Confession is an Anglican document, and it was in trying to encourage the document to be accepted in the

Church of England that so many of them were rejected from the Church in a time of low spirituality and laxity of doctrine.

I think Donald is absolutely right. They are morally and spiritually part of our spiritual heritage, and they should be made known to people just as the sermons, the, what do they call this, book of sermons?

Anyway, all of these things should be available to the membership, and if we turned away thousands of people, so be it.

If we had a smaller church with firmer conviction and hearts devoted to the truth of the

Lord for the salvation of men, numbers and all the nonsense that goes on in the

Church of England. I was going to say one of the forces that prevails in the

Church is ritualism, and that ought to be stripped away instead and have right doctrine.

So, I don't know where I am at the moment, speaking off the top of my head,

Chris, but I would agree totally with Donald on that.

Well, his second question is, would you agree that the Anglican Church of North America, which is also well known as ACNA, would you agree that ACNA harbors heretics that invoke departed saints?

Now, let me just quickly insert in there that I'm sure that both

Donald and Roger, my guest, agree that there are fine biblically orthodox men in the

ACNA. I've interviewed some on this broadcast, but how would you respond to Donald's question?

Would you agree that the ACNA harbors heretics that invoke departed saints?

I'm assuming he's referring to Anglo -Catholics. Before we come on air,

Chris, you always pray that we will say nothing that is injurious to the truth of God or his people.

I'm going to say it as politely as I can, as politely as possible.

I think ACNA has the seeds of its destruction already beginning to work.

I don't think it's going to last. I think it's going to repeat the whole matter of the

National Episcopal Church in America. It'll come down to that as a repeat, a copy of what they've all claimed to leave, because most of them don't have a clue about original

Anglicanism. And I remember one person saying to me when I left a copy of 1662 on my desk when

I went for vacation, and said, oh, is this the magic book? Is this the magic book?

And this was a person who was a leader. No, I'm not condemning him. I'm just saying that's evidence of the inherent weakness of ACNA.

It'll crumble. And I'm not sorry about that, because it never came to a reformed position clearly in the first place.

And one of the other things was that ambition to have 1 ,000 parishes. We're not here to count our parishes or our people.

We're here to proclaim the Word of God, whatever happens. And we have to go to our midway break right now.

Don't go away. We'll be right back. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Hello, my name is Anthony Eugenio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And I happen to know for a fact that my guest today,

Reverend Roger Salter, has nothing but the highest esteem for not only solid -ground -books .com,

but also for its founder, Mike Gaydosh. Care to share a few words about both the book publishing ministry and its founder?

Yes, thank you for the opportunity, Chris. Mike Gaydosh has done a marvelously important work in reproducing so many

Christian classics at a very affordable price and very well presented as well.

I have a number of his books. I've been so delighted sometimes to see them on the shelves of the big national book.

I have to just say quickly here, Chris, I don't mean to draw attention to myself. But at the moment,

I have lost half of my breathing capacity and half of my hearing ability.

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I only say that as an apology, not information for drawing attention to self.

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And I'm so delighted with what I know of Mike's personal ministry.

So I endorse Mike and his publishing venture totally.

He's a grand man with great books. Well, tell us what you really think,

Roger. I'm looking for a discount.

Well, I just want to plug some of the specific books that may be of particular interest to our

Anglican listeners, according to our listener Donald Veatch, who runs the

Facebook page Twisthouse, which is named after William Twiss, the 16th and 17th century prominent

English clergyman and theologian. According to him, over 120 ,000

Anglicans were notified about today's interview. So let me take advantage of the opportunity to highlight some

Anglican books. Of course, Solid Ground Christian Books is not exclusively Anglican, but they do have a lot of Anglican works, either by or about Anglicans.

Let me start with Rock of Ages, Augustus Toplady, the little -known man behind the well -known hymn.

And this next brother was unknown to me until Mike Adosh brought him to my attention.

And his name is Stephen H. Ting, the 19th century rector of St.

George's Episcopal Church in New York City. And he has written a masterful book that I gave away several years ago to each man who attended my biannual free

Iron Triple Zion radio pastor's luncheons. That book by Stephen H. Ting is The Christian Pastor, the

Office and Duty of the Gospel Minister. And Stephen H. Ting has also written a number of other works that are available through Solid -Ground -Books .com.

And one is The Law and Gospel, which I think everybody in our audience, regardless of denominational affiliation, should get their hands on.

That's another work by Stephen H. Ting, T -Y -N -G.

And actually, the full title is Lectures on the Law and Gospel by Stephen H. Ting.

And then there's also a book by a modern -day author that I've actually conducted an interview on this book.

And I've conducted a couple of interviews, different interviews, with the author.

But this book is called The Born -Again Episcopalian.

And that is a rare concept in the 21st century, that's for sure. The Born -Again

Episcopalian, which is about Bishop Charles Meikleveen, and primarily a 19th century

Episcopalian bishop. A Born -Again Episcopalian, The Evangelical Witness of Charles Pettit Meikleveen.

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Episcopalian. So go to solid -ground -books .com, order as many of these books and many more books as you possibly can, and mention when you place your order that you heard them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

Also, folks, I want to remind you that Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio is in urgent need of your financial help.

We are facing a scary financial crisis right now. There are at least a couple of our major sponsors who have had to delay payment to us, which is causing quite financial stress upon this radio program.

And ever since COVID and the mandates that the federal and local governments have unconstitutionally laid down upon the citizens of our nation, the giving to Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio has radically plummeted and has never bounced back, even though those mandates and restrictions for COVID have ceased to exist, at least temporarily.

We have not bounced back in the giving to this show, and we have some very vital bills on the very near horizon that we need to have paid.

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If you want to advertise with us, send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with my beliefs.

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

Never cut into the finances that you have set aside to give to your own local church where you're a member on the

Lord's Day in order to bless us with a gift. Never give your own church less money than you normally give your church to bless us.

And if you're really struggling to survive, wait until you're back on your feet and financially stable before you bless us with a gift.

The Bible is very clear, we're primarily to use the bulk of the money with which he has blessed us, which is still his money.

We're primarily to use it to provide for church and family, and providing for Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God.

So as desperately and as urgently as we need your donations, never cut into the money that you give to your church to do so.

And also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where you live in the entire world,

I may be able to help you find a church as I have done with many people in our audience spanning the globe.

And sometimes I've helped people find churches in all parts of the planet earth that are just a couple of minutes from where they live.

That may be you too. If you are spiritually homeless, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That is also the email address where you can send in a question to Roger Salter.

We are talking about The Force of Truth, which is the title of a book by Thomas Scott, who is an 18th and 19th century

Anglican theologian. And we are right in the middle of quite a list of questions that have been written to us by our listener, our

Anglican listener, Donald Veitch. And I typically never take even two questions from the same listener.

On rare occasions, I do ask two. But since Donald is in a unique position, being right on the front lines of the theological battles going on within Anglicanism, I am going to read the remainder of his questions because these are questions

I would never come up with on my own since I am a Reformed Baptist and not in the middle of this battle right now.

But the next question that we have from Donald Veitch of Twist House is, have you seen the

Reformed Episcopal Church Bishop Ray Sutton's two endorsements of the

Anglican office book? It contains 250 out of 350 pages, which is about invoking nearly all saints in history.

The ACNA and REC Bishop have been notified of this. Total silence.

Is this aiding and abetting a severe heresy? I won't compromise your program, will

I, if I'm honest? Chris, is that the case? I'm sorry, can you say that again?

I won't in any way affect your program or compromise it, if I give my true opinion.

No, I mean, the very fact that I'm reading the questions may have already diminished my Anglican listenership, but I'm not going to let that stand in the way of truth.

So, definitely give your honest and open opinion. I think his doctrine could poison the

ACNA to death. It misuses the term reformed, and you know some

Calvinists like to speak of Anglicanism as reformed Catholic. When he claims reformed

Catholic, he means Roman Catholic imported into your particular institution.

That is a man, I want to say it, I hope you're not in any way, well,

I'll say that I disagree with him totally. I totally agree with Donald's estimation of him.

I've read Donald's unanswered correspondence with him.

I say that we have subversion going on in ACNA if we don't deal with this issue soon, and it's the one reason that stands out in my mind, there are others, that I wouldn't back

ACNA for anything, because as long as this influence is there and behind the scenes and furtive,

I think ACNA is a dying institution. It's not worth its existence at the moment because of one particular interval who uses a lot of influence as a so -called bishop.

I don't know how much he's behind the choice of what ACNA promotes or prints, but it's dastardly dangerous, and that's all

I can say. I'd say a lot more if we were speaking on the phone, Chris. Even then the lines would frizzle up.

We have a third question from Donald, which is, the above question also applies to Arminianism, prophetic words now sponsored by ACNA's new

Archbishop Steve Wood on his website and updated weekly, as well as all the neo -Oxfordians in ACNA, and I'm assuming what he means by prophetic words.

I don't know, maybe he can clarify, but is he speaking of extra -biblical revelation and charismatic experience?

Is that what he means by this? Sorry, Chris. I think it's the

Anglo -Catholic influence. They would dearly love to snatch

ACNA for their cause, and I think Arminianism and the other laxities of ACNA have sealed its doom, ultimately, as a church of any use at all.

Now his last question is, for me, I recommend all Book of Common Prayer types in the

United States to avoid all American Anglican groups.

What else can we do for Book of Common Prayer Cranmerians? And first of all, before you answer the last question, do you agree with him that you recommend all

Book of Common Prayer types in the USA to avoid all American Anglican groups?

I'm not familiar with them all, Chris, but so far, ones that I'm aware of,

I'll use an old phrase, I wouldn't touch with a bargepole or two bargepoles joined together.

I think it's disgraceful what is appearing now as resurgent Anglicanism.

It is not anything like it. It is not in any way a replication of the

Reformation and the settlement of Anglican doctrine in the prayer book, the articles, and the homilies.

So I would say, keep away from all of them. Well, thank you,

Donald, and I've read all of your questions, as you know. So you are a rare and privileged person to have me read so many questions by one listener, and I just want to plug your

Facebook page again. It's Twisse House, T -W -I -S -S -E, named after William Twisse, the 16th and 17th century prominent

English clergyman and theologian. And by the way, folks, there may be

Anglicans listening that are fuming right now, that are furious. I do want to air debates on this show between different branches of Anglicanism, those who represent different branches of Anglicanism, especially

Reformed Anglican and Anglo -Catholic representatives. So if anybody wants to help me develop debates on issues like this, one of the key issues that I wanted to have debated is, is there a

New Testament priesthood outside the priesthood of all believers? Even Reformed Anglicans very often identify their ministers as priests.

It's something I, as a Reformed Baptist, reject, but there are even Anglicans who reject that, although they are in a tiny minority, it seems, not from history, but from the 21st century landscape of Anglicanism.

But that's just to put a seed of an idea in your mind if you're listening, especially if you're upset by anything that has been said.

We have another Anglican listener, Jameson in Arley, Alabama.

Dear Roger, you've shared so much of your knowledge of saints past with us.

When are you going to share the story of your own life's journey in the ministry?

By the way, we have done that in the past on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, so if you look up, if you type in Psalter in the search engine at ironsharpensironradio .com,

S -A -L -T -E -R, not like the Old Testament prayer, or should

I say hymnal, the Psalter, but S -A -L -T -E -R, you'll find at least one of them is a longer treatment and exploration of Roger's personal faith.

But we've interviewed Roger many times, and perhaps we will do that again at some point.

Let's see, where am I? I know you are a very humble man, and you may think it would not be of interest to others, but I'm sure to hear your story would be an encouragement to all of us who share your commitment to historical biblical

Protestant Anglican faith. What little you have shared with me has always been a big encouragement in my own life and struggles within the current

Anglican situation. Thank you so much for your faithful witness to our Reformed Anglican heritage.

Okay, there is no more question there, just a lot of accolades for you, brother, and I'm hoping that you receive them as a blessing from our listener.

Let's move on to something that you believe is one of the most prominent aspects of The Force of Truth, the book that you were inspired to discuss that theme today, the book by Thomas Scott.

What are some of the vital aspects of that book from which you have gleaned that you want to make sure our listeners hear today?

It's to see how merciful God is to a man who had really shut his mind to the

Lord. He was just doing a job that suited him and gratified him and gave him a reputation in the community.

It was all working towards some kind of super significance of the man himself, a dreadful, self -gratifying ambition, and that can feature in real and even accepted ministry, that people become indispensable, that they become superior to others, that they're not sharing in the work of the

Spirit of God, who enlivens and enlightens millions of other minds, and we should never try to come up with something original like our good friend

N .T. Wright. He has ruined the gospel by his novelty, and he goes on destroying it by other absolutely uninterpretable doctrines and weird things.

The new perspective on Paul being one that seemed to cause the most waves. Absolutely a deadly heresy, and you see, when a minister thinks

I've got something original that the Lord has never suggested to anyone else, that's the devil speaking to us, and we shouldn't pursue that novelty unless it's a new insight for ourselves that accords with the historic faith, and there are no new insights.

There is no original thought about the gospel because it all comes from the Holy Spirit if it's the true gospel, and we don't parade ourselves, and we don't make big money out of producing incomprehensible huge books that are just suitable for doorstoppers than putting on your desk, and I have no time for that man.

I don't care what his expertise is or his fame. It's very dangerous that we think that any idea we suddenly think, hey, that's a new angle.

No, there are no new angles. There is the universal, eternal gospel that comes from the

Word of God imparted by the Holy Spirit to a human mind to declare as absolutely accurately as possible, so I think looking at Thomas, he was strongly against everything that Newton stood for.

He would even avoid him at meetings wherever Newton happened to be. He looked down on Newton.

He was arrogant towards him. This is an arrogant, hardened man who gradually, by the sweet mercy of God, won him through a man he despised.

Amen. And by the way, folks, since Roger brought up John Newton, that beloved figure from history who wrote the hymn

Amazing Grace, you can get letters of John Newton from Banner of Truth publishers, which includes, among many letters written by John Newton, five letters that he wrote to Thomas Scott, the author of The Forest for Truth that we are addressing today, and you can get that from our sponsors,

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and if they don't have it already in stock, they can quickly get it for you because they are located only about five minutes away from the

American headquarters of Banner of Truth. So they have everything that Banner of Truth publishes.

You brought up, wow, his name just flew away out of my head.

You just brought him up, the controversial Anglican.

N .G. Wright? Yes, N .G. Wright. From what I understand, and perhaps you can correct me if I'm off base here, the major thrust of his heresy is a denial that the apostle

Paul was condemning as another gospel the addition of works to faith to justify a man, and that he was, in Wright's opinion,

Paul was condemning only the ethnic hatred of Jewish believers that were trying to make a

Jewish club out of Christianity and thereby, in order to accomplish that end, by making obedience to the

Jewish law, especially circumcision, a part of a requirement to be a Christian. Is that really what he is saying in the most dangerous thing since it is, in essence, a denial of Sola Fide, one of the pillars of the

Reformation, that we are justified by faith alone? N .G. Yes, he thinks that the

Reformation is medievalism and fear and dread, and Luther was a bit sort of,

I don't know, can I say pathologically desperate in his own mind and trying to get out of the medieval fear that the notion of God had for them in their dark monasteries.

It's more than just deliverance from the ceremonial law.

There's a moral thrust to the gospel. It's all the way through the Bible, and it is much more than just shedding externalities in the church and then coming to say, well,

Christ is Lord. That's my salvation. I acknowledge Christ as Lord.

This man has a lot to answer for, especially in some of his books that you can't even penetrate, and I know people of great intellectual ability who think he's just creating mazes and puzzles for people.

You're going to be wading through a swamp of nonsense. That is the man who makes me angriest ever.

I have to chew great sticks of licorice to turn myself down, bite into my back teeth, you know.

But one thing I wanted to say, and most of his doctrine is in the latest book in the last year on Paul.

That is a summary of all his doctrine. I'm not going to buy the book because it's rubbish, and I'm not adding to his royalties, but I got it from the library, and I copied some pages.

They even mess up my desk. I don't want that. That man is dangerous, and beware, because there are very clever false teachers around.

He and Fleming, whatever her name is, the priestess who wrote the book on Christ's death and crucifixion, they get us close to something that is orthodox, stated, and then veer away from it.

She virtually rubbished Isaiah 53, but it was very little referred to in the

New Testament. Therefore, it's not really valid for us to consider. That's how

I read her, and so I'd watch out for her as well. They write very big books.

They get big reviews from scholars who are not really subject to the sovereignty of the divine word and its purity, and they get tremendous reviews from the modernist liberal world.

I've read both books, and I had to be informed, but they pollute the mind, and they infuriate the conscience.

I want to just quote a man who has no sympathy with the evangelical church, the

Reformation at all, the historian, Emmett McCullough, and he said in his book,

All Things Made New, that Cranmer wanted to build

Anglicanism on the foundation of predestination, that frightening word that everybody seems to fear from a wise and merciful

God. Amen. Well, we have to go to our final break, and if you have a question, submit it immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. I'm Dr.

Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love.

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend God -given rights against the twin threats of tyranny and chaos.

If you own a rifle to resist tyrants and criminals, then you should own body armor and a med kit for the same reasons.

A rifle stops evil, body armor and a med kit keep you in the fight and preserve your life.

Armored Republic is a body of free craftsmen united to create tools of liberty. We are honored to be your armorsmith of choice.

Civilian ownership of body armor is about increasing decentralized power and by comparison, reducing the advantages of centralized power.

The danger of centralized power is often represented by the word king. As Americans, we hate the word king applied to any mere man.

We are Armored Republic, and in a republic, there is no king but Christ. Arm yourself with tools of liberty at armoredrepublic .com.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

Chris up for just such a time, and knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Puritan Reformed is a

Bible -believing, kingdom -building, devil -fighting church. We are devoted to upholding the apostolic doctrine and practice preserved in Scripture alone.

Puritan Reformed teaches men to rule and lead as image -bearing prophets, priests, and kings.

We teach families to worship together as families. Puritan is committed to teaching the whole counsel of God so that the earth will be filled with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.

We sing the Psalms, teach the law, proclaim the gospel, make disciples, maintain discipline, and exalt

Christ. This is Pastor David Reese of Puritan Reformed in Phoenix, Arizona.

Join us in the glorious cause of advancing Christ's crown and covenant over the kings of the earth.

Puritan Reformed Church. Believe. Build. Fight. Puritanphx .com.

Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, President of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.

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But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sensed that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit

NHPBC .com. That's NHPBC .com.

You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church, a congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

God bless you. Chris Arnzen here.

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Welcome back, folks, and don't forget that this program is paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

Please, if you are the serious victim or the victim of a serious personal injury or medical malpractice, contact my longtime dear friend,

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, who has not only sponsored this program since its very inception in 2005, but has also sponsored every special event that I have set my hand to do, including the debates with Dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and conferences and all kinds of things. Dan has always had my back, as they say, and financially contributed to these major things, including this program.

So, if you are the victim of a serious injury or medical malpractice anywhere in the United States, call

Dan Buttafuoco of Buttafuoco and Associates at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, or visit his website, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com,

1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com. Please mention to Dan Buttafuoco that you heard about him through Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

Also, I just want to quickly remind you, if you're a man in ministry leadership, please send in your registration to the next free biannual

Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon, featuring for the very first time as our keynote speaker,

Dr. Joe Boot, founder and president of the Ezra Institute. And everything is free of charge, not only your admission and your meal, but everyone receives a heavy sack of free brand new books, personally selected by me and donated by generous publishers all over the

United States and the United Kingdom. All of it's free of charge at the insistence of my precious late wife,

Julie, who founded these biannual luncheons back in the 1990s, and I continue conducting them in tribute, in honor of her, and in loving memory of her.

So send me your email with your registration if you're a man in ministry leadership, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

and put Pastor's Luncheon on the subject line. That's Thursday, October 10th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is Perry County. One of the things

I wanted to ask you about, Roger, is do many of these problems that appear and are on the rise, not only within Anglicanism, but spanning the denominational spectrum, even when it comes to liberalism and leftism, would a lot of this, in your opinion, come from the very faulty anthropology of many professing

Christians, their understanding of man and attributing to man too much goodness innately in his nature?

And that would even go with the failures of many Reformed people and denominations, because they are really contradicting what historically has been the teachings of the

Reformed faith. Am I off base by saying this? No, I think you're absolutely right,

Chris. I think we're too optimistic about human nature, and it's only when we've lost that optimism and come to our absolute wretchedness and helplessness that, as Augustine says, we come to find the grace of God.

There has to be a pessimism about humanity and an optimism that follows on from the

Lord himself. Any optimism in man is a false path. It's a delusion, and we can't entertain it.

And as we know from the Psalms, you cannot trust a fellow human absolutely. You cannot trust princes.

You have to, in a sense, be wary. I don't want to be mistaken in this, but we're wary of everyone, in a sense, because we're all sinners.

Some of us will lapse into sin and we'll still be the Lord's. Others have never ever wanted to emerge from it or don't think of it.

But not to trust man absolutely, to hope that there's something trustworthy in the people we meet, but not to count on it.

And God is the only one who we can trust. And I hope sometimes he gives us an interior warning about where that just might be beneficial in our human relationships.

Now, if you could, please summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today when it comes to our topic.

I think to be men of principle. The Scottish Presbyterians were strong on this, those great men like Chalmers and Cunningham, that Christianity is a matter of principles, from one principle to another.

They do not vary in importance. They shouldn't be omitted or there shouldn't be any spaces between them.

We start from man's absolute inability and depravity in every faculty he has.

No one is as sinful as they could be. The total depravity is that all our faculties are blighted by sin.

Even reason, even the purest reason of the philosophers is anti -God.

So, we must start with the fact that we are enemies of God, not just offenders, not just sinners, but rebels.

We hate him by nature, and very few discover that. It's the wake -up call.

So, we realize that Christ takes sinners captive and gives us gifts, gifts of grace.

He's our conqueror, and he's also the lover of our soul. Amen. Well, I have time for a listener question.

We have—let's see, I was just looking at it. Frederick, located in Albany, New York, and Frederick says,

I know that you are a book of common prayer, man, but I was wondering if it is not wise, while at the same time cherishing that heritage of yours, to be honest about the past where the

Church of England brutally persecuted the Covenanter Presbyterians because of their refusal to have the book of common prayer mandated upon them as an essential element of their worship.

Yes, I have to say that I was raised in the first portion of my ministry in England.

We had so many approved alternatives, and we were also able to draft one self -made service for one use every month.

So, I'm used to the freedom of other texts. I use them for my own personal devotion.

I became strongly 1662 about two years ago.

I used to use other alternatives even here. It was a 1928 service and that has its problems, but I used to feel the other alternatives did give a wider scope of certain topics, but now

I'm 1662 because I believe we have to go back to our foundation.

No, but in regard to what the listener was specifically asking about, he was basically saying, isn't it dangerous for a church, even if we think something is extremely helpful and wonderful and beautiful, to bind upon the consciences of other

Christians things that aren't specifically mandated in the Word of God? Oh, yes,

I think that's wrong to officially impose an alternative service.

And, of course, in England it was the other way. They opposed the Book of Common Prayer.

Basically, it wasn't an alternative. It was meant to be a substitute. In my own mind,

I'm happy to read other services if they have things that cast a little more light on certain issues, but for me now, 1662 and Cranmer's Pastoral Care and Theology seem to be sufficient food for my soul.

Well, Roger, it has been a joy to have you return to the program. I'm looking forward to many future visits from you, so please let me know the moment you have a topic that pops into your head that you would like to address on my program.

My studio door is always open to you, and I really look forward to as many return visits as you care to participate in.

If anybody in our audience wants to contact Roger, you may email me, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and I can pass on any question that you may have for Roger to him.

And, of course, you can also go to the website rogersalter .com, rogersalter .com,

and once again, his last name is not spelled like the Old Testament hymn book, the

Psalter. It's spelled S -A -L -T -E -R, rogersalter .com.

And once again, folks, I hate to repeat this just because I know that it can be annoying to folks, but it is an urgency.

I'm asking everybody listening to please, if you love this show and you care about its existence and its perpetual nature being aired on the airwaves, please go to irontrepanzionradio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. irontrepanzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You can donate with a debit or credit card instantly in that fashion, and there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen where you can mail checks made payable to irontrepanzionradio .com.

I only repeat this information because we are in a very scary financial situation right now and urgently need your assistance.

But I want to thank you once again, Roger, for being my guest. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write in questions, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater