April 30, 2019 Show with John Otis on “Scripture’s Unchanging Authority”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlyle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 30th day of April 2019.

And I'm delighted to have an old friend on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio today, one of my favorite guests, and a dear friend who means a lot to me.

His name is Reverend John M. Otis, and he is an ordained minister, an author, and the founder of Triumphant Publications.

He's also the director of the Good News Bible series for Reformation Christian Ministries.

And we are going to be discussing scripture's unchanging authority, the reason the

Bible must be the basis for understanding God and his work in the world of man.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Reverend John M. Otis.

It's always great to be with you, Brother Chris. Always great. Amen. Well, before we go into the subject at hand, let's find out a little bit more about the

Good News Bible series and Reformation Christian Ministries. Yes, for about four years,

I've been associated with Reformation Christian Ministries. And one of the parts of that overall ministry is called the

Good News Bible series, which I am now directing. And the purpose of that ministry is that we offer free online

Bible courses, whereby one can earn a certificate of completion by going through and taking this course.

The course is set up in a way that you read a Bible verse, pertinent to the subject, and you answer accordingly, according to multiple choice options.

And the program that we have just gives you a feedback that you got it right or not, go back to review, and then you have quizzes after each section, then you have a final test.

It's not difficult, but what we're endeavoring to do, Chris, is to get people back into a serious study of the scriptures.

So that's what the Good News Bible series is all about. If you could tell us also a little bit more about Reformation Christian Ministries.

Reformation Christian Ministries was begun years ago by Reverend Jeffrey Donnan.

And in 1990, I happened to go with him to Nicaragua.

It was at that time called Caribbean Christian Ministries. He originally started a course on the

Good News Bible study, which now I'm heading up, and it's basically a gospel course.

We have two courses, a gospel course, and the one that is on the authority of scriptures.

Reformation Christian Ministries, they have a college, they have a seminary that's located in Florida, and they've ministered in about 25 different countries around the world.

So that's just a nutshell about Reformation Christian Ministries. About two years ago, the

Lord took Brother Jeff to glory. He contracted pancreatic cancer, and it was a great testimony, but the

Lord took him, and he got prepared to go be with the Lord and got all of his things straight for all of us.

And he's in glory, and we're carrying on the ministry that he set forth many years ago.

Well, I am so glad that you're carrying the torch for the ministry, and for those of you who want to partake in this

Good News Bible series, just go to goodnewsbibleseries .com, goodnewsbibleseries .com.

Well, now we're going to be entering into the main theme that we have today,

Scripture's Unchanging Authority, the reason the Bible must be the basis for understanding

God and his work in the world of man. First of all, the

Scriptures, they cannot be merely viewed, as many do, as a wonderful book of wisdom where we can search through the pages and find things that melt our heart, and things that we think are wonderful placards to remember, sentimental things, and even important things that can help us direct our lives, but to the exclusion of everything else that is in there that makes us uncomfortable.

The Bible is inerrant from beginning to end. It does not have any error, and it is breathed out of the mouth of God, is it not?

Absolutely. That's what the word inspiration means, breathed out by the living

God. And today, we have liberal scholars and ministers who would believe that much of the

Bible is true. Some might even say that it is the word of God, but they do not believe that it is unchanging.

They believe that it applies to particular cultures in any particular era of time, and especially the past.

And that will especially be made evident whenever you see any kind of a conversation or a debate that a conservative

Bible -believing evangelical Christian may have with a advocate of homosexuality, or some other thing that is clearly taught in Scripture to be wickedness and a damning sin.

And so therefore, you will have people say, well, yes, Paul was very opposed to some same -sex relationships, but these only involved prostitution.

You might have some of them say that, well, in Paul's day, or in even the days of the

Old Testament as well, you did not have loving, faithful, monogamous homosexual relationships like you do today.

This is basically talking about rampant promiscuity amongst those engaging in same -sex activity.

But we cannot look at the Bible that way either. The unchanging part of this theme is very important, isn't it?

Well, absolutely. The problem today, even in the broadly evangelical church, is that people have a tendency, they want to interpret the

Scripture according to the majority opinion of the zeitgeist of the day, the prevailing philosophy.

And sadly, we are living in a time whereby, for example, on this homosexual and transgender nonsense, is that they want to interpret the

Bible in light of what their personal preferences are. There are so many people, that's how they do that.

Now, you don't have to be a homosexual or transgender to be guilty of that, but there's a lot of well -meaning people, they go to the

Bible to try to prove what they prefer it to say. Well, I've been witnessing to people over the years, and someone will say to me, well, that's your opinion,

I just don't believe that. And I always say to them, well, what you believe and what

I believe doesn't matter. What matters is what God says, what God has said in His Scripture, which is

His revelation, that is what matters. And so, that's what the problem that we're seeing today, people, they want to either use tradition, or they want to use their feelings as their normative guide, rather than let the

Scripture and a proper interpretation of the Scripture govern their behavior. Now, Charles Stanley's son,

Andy Stanley, who has, I think, risen to a popularity that, and I could be wrong, but I think he's risen to a popularity that either equals or even exceeds the popularity of his father today.

And he has said some very disturbing things lately in regard to the authority of the

Scripture, because he only believes some of the Scriptures have authority, according to his disturbing quotes.

But if you could let us know what you think. Yeah, I would consider Andy Stanley, from what

I've watched some of his podcasts and all this, I mean, he believes in the Lord Jesus, and his ministry probably has exceeded in terms of influence his father's, and he has one of the biggest churches, and they have really satellite churches here in the

Atlanta area. But let me just mention just a few short quotes.

And these are all sermons that he's given, and he'll oftentimes put his sermons up on overhead so that people can see what he's referring to.

For example, he says, and these are direct quotes from Andy, he says, the Old Testament was not a go -to source regarding any behavior for the church.

And he said, the Jerusalem Council, you are not accountable to the

Ten Commandments. You shall not obey Ten Commandments because your commandments, namely that was given by Jesus, are better.

And he says, Christians are wrong to try to defend the Ten Commandments, monuments in public or government places.

And he's going on to say this. He says, participants in the New Covenant, that is a Christian, are not required to obey any of the commandments found in the first part of their

Bibles. Participants of the New Covenant are expected to obey the single command

Jesus used as part of the New Covenant. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

And then finally he said, first century leaders unhitched the church from the worldview value system and regulation of the

Jewish scriptures. Peter, James, and Paul elected to unhitch the

Christian faith from the Jewish scriptures. And my friends, we must do so as well, end of quote.

Now those are, I consider disturbing and a view of the scripture that is not honoring, sadly, to the scriptures.

Yes, it's kind of interesting that Jesus himself said, if you love me, keep my commandments. And at that time, he was clearly talking about, included in that statement were the

Ten Commandments. Yes, if you go to, for example,

Galatians chapter five, verse 14, talks about that the whole law can be fulfilled in one word, love your neighbor as yourself.

And then actually it's repeated in Romans 13, where that great passage on the role of civil authorities.

It's interesting down there in Romans 13, nine. Let me just read that because I think it's very pertinent here.

It says in Romans 13, nine, after talking about the role of the civil magistrate being a terror to the wicked.

And it goes on to say, for this, you shall not commit adultery. You shall not murder.

You shall not steal. You shall not covet. And if there's any other commandment, it's summed up in this saying, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Well, the last time I checked, Chris, those are part of the Ten Commandments. And I don't know if Andy Stanley said this in any other part of his message, but even our brethren who are considered or who identify themselves as New Covenant Calvinists, New Covenant theologians, they believe that the

Decalogue was specifically meant for Israel, but that Christ reiterated or brought or retained nine of them in the

New Covenant. So it's really a Sabbath issue when it comes down, even though the differences on both sides would be claimed by both sides to be greater than what

I'm saying, but that is the primary issue is the Sabbath. But they still, obviously, believe that thou shalt not kill and thou shalt not commit adultery and all the other commandments are a part of the fabric of Christianity.

Now, do you know what Andy Stanley means by what he said, by what you call it? Well, one of the things, there was a podcast that one of his friends,

I think it's Michael Brown, I could be mistaken by his first name, had about an hour and a half podcast with him.

And Michael Brown took great exceptions with Andy, but he wanted Andy the opportunity to clarify himself.

So I listened to that thing a while back. What apparently is where Andy, he studied at Dallas Theological Seminary and Andy basically, as I concluded, is a hardcore dispensational pre -millennialist.

He would be in the school of Schofield and others.

He studied under Norman Geisler. I know what Norman Geisler once said.

He didn't think that the law of God ought to govern a modern society. By the way, that was a debate he had with Gary DeMar, who you know and is a friend of.

And he told Gary DeMar years ago, he says, well, Gary, ask him, what law would you substitute if it's not the law of God as revealed by Moses in the scriptures?

He says, well, I'd say the Code of Hammurabi might be fitting.

So he's choosing, that is, Geisler was choosing the Code of Hammurabi over the law of God as revealed by Moses.

And at some point, we talk about how Jesus was very critical of others. He says, if you had believed

Moses in his law, he spoke of me and it would be do well, he said in John five, if you had listened to the law of Moses, you would believe me because he spoke of me,

Jesus said. So Andy is a dispensationalist and that governs a lot of what he has to say.

And then that began to make sense, his view. Of course, it wouldn't take much to,

I think, refute Andy in this regard, as we've pointed out, Jesus said one of the two greatest commandments, love the

Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And then he said, love your neighbor as yourself.

And of course, I read the passage in Romans 13, Paul also wrote it in Galatians five, that the whole law can be summarized, love your neighbor as yourself.

And that is the summary of the 10 commandments, essentially. And of course, we have to clarify that not all dispensationalists followed the historic

Dallas Theological Seminary approach to the law and to repentance and the necessity of repentance, the

Lordship salvation controversy had even dispensationalists divided where you had

Dr. John MacArthur, a very outspoken dispensationalist, but at the same time was in the forefront of defending the

Lordship of Christ as a required aspect of salvation and in addition to repentance, whereas many at Dallas Theological Seminary and other places who were also dispensationalists were saying in a way that really distorted very greatly the concept, the biblical pillar or watchword of the

Reformation, Sola Fide, that was twisted to teach that only your mental assent to the facts of the gospel were required for salvation and you could continue to live like Satan himself for decades until you die and still expect to go to heaven.

Yeah, as you just indicated, there are different strains of dispensationalists, but he is indicative of one strain, any statement that is.

Yes, people seem to make the very wrong and deadly conclusion that to insist upon repentance somehow is siding with Roman Catholicism on the idea that our works contribute to the meriting of our entrance into heaven, but that's not at all what people who believe in the necessity of repentance are saying.

Right. One of the things I've wanted to do in my course titled

Scriptures Unchanging Authority is I've got a section called, one of the parts of the course is called

The Bible Views Itself as Its Own Authority, so I talk about a whole section of Jesus' authority,

Jesus' use of the Old Testament and the apostles' use of the Old Testament. Many times

Jesus says, it is written, it is written, and of course, when he was sent out by the

Holy Spirit into the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights to be tempted of the devil,

Jesus, we should learn a lot from what Jesus did because I think he set an example for us in all of those temptations that came to Christ, he says, it is written, and by the way, he's taken a lot of those from his favorite book that he liked to quote from,

Deuteronomy. Well, one thing that we also have to clarify when we say the

Scriptures Unchanging Authority is that there are people who would agree with that statement wholeheartedly, but they would say in conclusion to that truth that we should all be

Judaizers, that we should be requiring Old Covenant ceremonial law in addition to moral law in the

New Covenant, and that's why you do have some aberrant groups claiming to be

Christian. Some of them might believe in the gospel, but there are even those that are works -righteous oriented, there are cults that deny the

Trinity, that would describe themselves as messianic movements or messianic congregations that are really counterfeit because some of them don't even believe in the deity of Christ, but the point is that we have to be leery about not being guilty of Judaizing because that is a damning sin, that's a sin that Paul rebuked the

Church of Galatia for being duped to believe by the Judaizers, and he said it's no gospel at all, and he said that those who bring such a false gospel are to be anathematized or cursed to hell.

Right, seeing that I'm a Presbyterian minister, the creeds that historic

Presbyterianism has held to, the Westminster Confession of Faith, there's a chapter on the law of God, and oftentimes there's a distinction made in the law, many refer to as you have the moral law, which is summarized in Ten Commandments, then you have ceremonial law, that sacrificial system of the

Old Testament of which typified or foreshadowed the work of Christ on Calvary's cross, and then the judicial laws, and now there's a difference of opinion on some as to what continues today in those judicial laws, but with regard to the ceremonial laws, and that was the great sin of the

Judaizers. In Paul's day, they were saying you had to be circumcised in order to be saved, and of course, that was the basis of Paul taking that troublesome issue to the

Council of Jerusalem that we find recorded in Acts chapter 15. So yeah,

I mean, properly understood, we're talking about the unchanging authority, the unchanging, the moral authority, the commandments of God set forth in his moral law, which

I think there are implications as far as in terms in the civil realm as well, but with regard to the ceremonial law, that was fulfilled at the work of Christ.

And we do have to grapple as Christians with the fact that although God himself is unchanging and his scripture is unchanging, that God has dealt with his people in different ways throughout the centuries that his creation has existed.

Obviously, there was a day when God spoke directly to his people through divine revelation, they actually heard his voice in their ears, and at times there were appearances,

Christophanies and so forth, that do not happen in the 21st century, that do not happen as far as we who are cessationists are concerned after the apostolic era.

Right, in Hebrews chapter one, in fact, it says, verse one, it says,

God, after he spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in his son, whom he appointed heir of all things through the world, whom he made of the world.

So, yeah, there is a progress in the unveiling of God's revelation, meaning his special revelation.

I think we have to distinguish theologically to what several have said, general revelation, as opposed to special revelation.

General revelation is how God has revealed himself, the glory, his glory in his creation, that's what

Romans one talks about, that all men clearly know that God exists and are without excuse.

Now, as general revelation reveals a true part of God as a creator, it doesn't tell us anything about how to be redeemed, and that's why special revelation is necessary.

Yeah, the revelation, the general revelation described in Romans one is only enough to get us condemned because we're without excuse.

Right, that's exactly right. And so there was a need of special revelation.

So there is in the history of humanity, there is a progress, as we like to know in certain reform circles, a progress in various covenants, as we would call the

Adamic Covenant, the Noahic Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, the

Davidic Covenant, and the New Covenant, and God is revealing himself progressively in there.

So there is a, but at the same time, while there is some discontinuity, there's an overriding unity of the scriptures, and that's one of the things that I want to stress in my course is that unity in the

Bible so that people can realize, look, Jesus quoted often from the

Old Testament, and he appealed to the Old Testament in terms of what was expected of us, and the apostles did the same thing.

So really, Andy, that quote I gave earlier of Andy Stanley, he said, where Peter and James and Paul elected to unhitch us from the

Christian faith, from the Jewish scriptures, well, no, they didn't. I mean, you can clearly go throughout the

New Testament, and you see all the places that they appealed to.

Yes, and we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Reverend John M.

Otis about scripture's unchanging authority or about any theological question that you might have that comes to mind, our guest is an ordained minister and has been a pastor for many years up until today when he's dedicating himself to the

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Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is John M. Otis, and we are discussing the scripture's unchanging authority.

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Reverend Otis, we have one of the reasons, excuse me, one of the key reasons that we are to view the

Bible as our authority, and in fact, as historic

Protestants, we are to view it as the only infallible and inerrant authority for the church, as opposed to the traditions of men as the

Roman Catholic Church elevates those traditions of their church to the level of scripture, and some would say even to the level of superiority over the scripture.

But one of the reasons that we are to view the Holy Scriptures as an authority, as our only infallible, inerrant authority, is that it is true.

Right, absolutely. You know, in 2 Timothy 3, verses 16 and 17, it says,

God inspired all scripture is inspired of God as profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped to every good work.

And so obviously, what scriptures was it referring to, but what some have said, the

Jewish scriptures, or the Old Testament scriptures, and whatever New Testament scriptures that might have been already written.

So the scripture is, when God, let's put it this way, someone says, why would you believe in an inspired scripture that's authoritative?

Well, simply put this way, that God is the one who has inspired it.

Is God capable of error? No. Would God deliberately lead people astray? No. And so it is breathed out, the scripture is, through his prophets.

And one of the things, as you go through my course on this,

I got sections dealing with Old Testament passages and prophets, that when you fail to listen to a prophet of God, then you have disobeyed

God. So God links his prophetic word, through his prophets, to obeying him.

In fact, there's one section that I have in part two, it says,

God reveals himself in special revelation. It says, when scripture speaks, God speaks.

And that's a really powerful section there, because there are several instances in the

New Testament, where it says, scripture says, but you look up the reference when it's speaking, it says,

God says. There's been a whole book written about that. That whatever scripture speaks,

God speaks. So God is tying himself to his revealed word.

Now that's a very key reason why a faithful minister of the gospel, unlike many professed pastors and preachers and evangelists and media personalities, who are televangelists and television faith healers, so -called, the faithful minister is to saturate the word that he proclaims from the pulpit with God's word, because that is the only way

God speaks to his people, is through his word. And if the pastor has just a little bit of God's word and the vast majority of his sermons or messages or sharing time, whatever you wanna call it, is filled with his own personal anecdotes and stories and jokes.

And I like a good joke as much as the next guy. People know me for my sense of humor, and perhaps they think

I use it too much. But in a pulpit, it's really

God's word that needs to dominate everything that is said. And of course, the pastor is to exegete that word.

Right, one of the things that I've always been sensitive of, one of the most amazing things is that God would use frail men as myself and others, because we all understand our weaknesses.

But I've always said that as I've approached preaching is that I'm not there to give my opinion.

I pray that my opinion doesn't come across, that I have faithfully interpreted, exegeted a scripture, and that as Charles Spurgeon would say, you're the voice of God.

And you gotta view yourself. I've talked to a ministerial candidate not too long ago, and he just now actually got approved to be a pastor.

He passed an ordination exam, and he would have prowl sermons that he would give.

And I always mentioned to him one time, you know, the pulpit's not a place to have a chat with people.

It is proclaiming what God says with authority so that when you're speaking, that people need to have a sense

God is speaking. You know, there's a passage that is incredible, Chris, and that's

Romans chapter 10, verses 13 through 17. Let me read it.

It says, for whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. How then shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed?

And how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings of good things.

And then in verse 17, so faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Now, the incredible thing in verse 14,

Chris, is that it says that Jesus is preaching through his preachers.

So I've always said one of the most powerful things is when a human preacher is faithful to the scriptures, then you have heard the voice of Christ.

And that shows the primacy of preaching, and so that's, yeah.

And that's why the pastor or the preacher is not to be the focal point.

His own personality or his own being is not to be what is most concentrated on by the listener.

It is the word of God. Now, of course, God uses the personalities of men.

He uses the particular character traits of men, their voices and so on, even the quality of their voices and the quality of their intellect and their organizational skills when they prepare a message.

So I'm not trying to remove the involvement of the preacher and the importance of what he contributes to a sermon, but at the same time, he's supposed to, as it were, step out of the way and let the word of God itself bring a message to those listeners, whether it is something they rejoice over or something that strikes terror in them and something that they hate, as long as it's truly from his word.

I had a pastor friend say once, and it stayed with me, and it was his counsel to young men aspiring to the gospel ministry.

He says, the last thing you wanna do in the pulpit is be boring. And he made a comment, and I understood it the right way.

He says, you gotta be willing, if necessary, to embarrass yourself. And I understood what he meant there is the purpose is you want to get across what

God has said. You know, one of my favorite preachers of all time is George Whitefield.

And what set George Whitefield apart in the 18th century from all of the preachers was how he would preach a text.

He was an Anglican minister, but he was a Calvinistic Methodist. And in England, it was just cold preaching.

And all of a sudden, here comes Whitefield along, and one of the things that was noted about him was his animation in his preaching.

John Newton, you know, wrote Amazing Grace. Once heard as a young man,

Whitefield speak, and he said, there are many preachers that could, with the same clarity, faithfully preach as Whitefield.

But he said, no one could preach a text like Whitefield. That alluded to Jonathan Edwards' wife,

Sarah Edwards, when Whitefield came to the American colonies, spent some time there with the

Edwards. Sarah Edwards said, yeah, there's something amazing about listening to Mr.

Whitefield. He could say Mesopotamia, and people would start crying. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Now, it's interesting that you brought up Edwards, because I don't know if it was only when he read

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God, and in fact, I've heard different reports about this, but I've heard that Edwards' reading of that sermon, which

God used to bring about revival in New England, was, he read it deadpan, emotionless, and so on, didn't want to manipulate the emotions of men to bring about a response from them.

And of course, you had Whitefield, who was yelling at the top of his lungs, and Benjamin Franklin, who used to go to hear him speak, was amazed at the distances with which he could hear

Whitefield, and of course, there was no amplification that we have today, like electronically and so forth.

Yeah, that instance with Benjamin Franklin and Whitefield, Whitefield was preaching at the steps of the courthouse in Philadelphia.

Franklin did not believe the reports that were coming out of England that Whitefield was preaching to crowds of 10, 20, 30 ,000.

He says, I just don't believe it. Well, as Whitefield began to preach, Franklin began to walk off the distance of city blocks in terms of how far could he walk and still clearly hear

Whitefield. He walked 10 city blocks in downtown Philadelphia, and then did a radius of, he calculated three feet per person, and then he said, well,

I guess the reports are not exaggerated after all. Huh. I mean,

Whitefield had a voice probably unlike any other preacher in the history of man, animated,

I mean, God raised him up for a purpose, there's no doubt about it. And one of them was certainly open -air preaching, obviously, because of that.

Yeah, it was all mostly open -air because he was denied the pulpits. Right, well, there's a

Romans 8 .28 situation, if I ever heard one, where he's denied the pulpits and God brings him out into the streets with tens of thousands of people.

Yeah, but going back to Edwards, is that urban legend about Edwards being deadpan and quiet and emotionless, or is that just for the sinners in the hands of an angry

God? I think there is some merit to it. I read a biography,

I forget the author, on Edwards, a huge book on Edwards, and by the way, that sermon that became famous, he did not preach at his own church, he preached it at a visiting church, and it had its impact there at that visiting church.

Yeah, I think he had read his sermon previously, but it didn't have any impact, or none like that at the other church.

Well, he was not known for his animation like Whitefield, and so, here it is.

One of the reasons I brought that up. What matters is that the word of God is preached, and the true teacher is always the

Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit takes that word, because as Isaiah 55 says,

God says, my word shall go out of my mouth, it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that for which

I sent it. Wherever the scripture is faithfully proclaimed, then men can get saved.

You know, actually, it goes to show in my book on preaching in the victory of the gospel, when

Spurgeon was saved as a 15 -year -old, do you know that story? Yes, in a blizzard, he wandered into a primitive

Methodist church, and somebody who was not even the pastor, because the pastor was either at home in bed because of the blizzard or something,

I don't know, but the pastor wasn't there, and a layman in the church kept repeating a phrase, a verse of the scripture, and I even...

John 3 talks about where Jesus is being lifted up, referring to the pigs and the serpents, and later,

Spurgeon will say about it, he says, this man, he says, these are the words that Spurgeon used, he was an ignorant man.

Right. However, for 10 minutes, he rambled on, but it was at that point that God used it to finally bring home that thing.

So, what that demonstrates, that here's a 10 -minute message of a man who could barely articulate and string together sensible sentences.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. According to Spurgeon, God still uses, and that just goes to prove the true teacher is the

Holy Spirit, and so wherever that Bible is faithfully proclaimed, it does,

I mean, after all, Romans 1 16 says the gospel is the dunamis of God.

Amen. I like to preach on that, because the word there is the power of God, dunamis. I always tell people, what word, what

English word do you think is similar to the word dunamis? And I get the kids, you know, dynamite?

Because that's the derivative, really, that's the derivative of the English dynamite from the

Greek word dunamis. So, the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to the

Jews first, and then to the Gentiles. And so, it's the Holy Spirit that takes that preached word and drives it home to those whom

God is gonna bring to saving face, and who he wants to exhort. In fact,

I just heard a message on Saturday at the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology that I just attended this past week, and a really, really wonderful Anglican minister,

Henry Jansma, who is a theologically Reformed Anglican, Low Church Anglican, and Calvinist Anglican, who's a member of the

Anglican Church of North America, it is not a part of the mainline Episcopal Church, but he preached a message, or gave a message, a lecture, on exactly what you were just saying, that although there is some reason for great concern on the homiletic aspect of sermon delivery, that we cannot be overly consumed with that, because the word of God is a living and true word, and it will achieve what

God intends it to accomplish. Let me mention this before we...

In fact, could you hold onto it, because we have to go to our midway break. This is our longer than normal break, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle, because they air their own public service announcements and commercials to localize

Zion Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, while we air our own commercials, which are aired globally, so use this time wisely.

Write down questions for our guest, John Otis, and also write down the information provided by our advertisers, so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them.

We depend on the advertising dollars of our sponsors to exist. We cannot exist without them, so please patronize our advertisers as much as you can, and as heavily as you can.

And don't forget to write down questions for John Otis at chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

and Reverend Otis, please don't forget where you were going to pick up there when

I interrupted you. Amos, Book of Amos. Okay, Book of Amos. And we'll be right back, God willing, after these messages from our sponsors.

I'm Pastor Billy Linhart of Sovereign Grace Particular Baptist Church of San Angelo, Texas, and I'm thrilled to have joined the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio family of sponsors. We fully subscribe to the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith as a faithful summary of the most vital biblical truths, desire to worship the triune

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Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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.nyc. Have a great day. Did you know that all believers are priests?

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

Call Linbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org.

That's linbrookbaptist .org. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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It is an absolutely remarkable hardback biography published by Evangelical Press in the

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I had the privilege of orchestrating an event a year or two ago featuring my friend

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We are going to return to our discussion with John Otis in a moment, but we just have some upcoming announcements for events that are taking place that I hope that as many of you as possible will attend.

The first one is going to be held this Thursday in London, England.

I know that we do have listeners in the United Kingdom, and we also specifically have listeners in London.

And if you would like to go to a debate, there's going to be one held this

Thursday, that's May 2nd. And the theme is Who resembles Jesus, Christians or Muslims?

The debate is between my dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and Adnan Rashid, a

Muslim apologist. It will be held at Selhurst Church on Two Prince Road in South Norwood, London.

And it's 6 p .m. to 9 p .m. there in London this Thursday, May 2nd. For more details, go to the

Alpha and Omega Ministries website. That's A -O -M -I -N dot org. A -O -M -I -N dot org.

This Thursday, May 2nd, 6 p .m. to 9 p .m. at the Selhurst Church, Two Prince Road in South Norwood, London.

And I'm sorry, folks, if I'm mispronouncing Selhurst, because I know that over in the U .K., they pronounce things very often much differently than we do.

Then, coming up on Thursday, May 23rd, I am having my

Iron Sharpens Iron radio free pastor's luncheon, and everybody who is a man in ministry leadership is welcome to attend, absolutely free of charge.

It's Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall, Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

My guest speaker is the man I mentioned moments ago, Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

He's going to be speaking on the theme, How the Dead Sea Scrolls Vindicate the Reliability of the Bible. Everybody who attends is going to be given a heavy sack of free, brand new books donated by most of the major publishers in the

United States and the United Kingdom, most of the major Christian publishers, that is, in the United States and the United Kingdom. These are books that I personally selected from these publishers, and they donate to me a hundred copies of each book so that every man attending can get his own copy.

So you'll be getting between two and three dozen free books, and this is all free of charge.

There's no hidden agenda, no ulterior motive. That was the rule of my precious late wife,

Julie, who came up with the idea of these pastor's luncheons in the 1990s. She didn't want any hidden agenda, ulterior motives.

She just wanted this to be a day where pastors could rest, relax, and enjoy fun food, fellowship, and an excellent message by a gifted speaker and walk home with a lot of free gifts, which in this case is free books and DVDs and CDs sometimes as well.

But if you'd like to register for this, absolutely free, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

And also Dr. Tony Costa, when he leaves Carlisle, Pennsylvania, he's going to Long Island, New York, my old stomping grounds, and he's going to be speaking at a number of churches there at events that I have orchestrated for him from Friday, May 24th, through Sunday, May 26th.

These churches include New Hyde Park Baptist Church in western Nassau County, Long Island, the

Wading River Baptist Church in central Suffolk County, Long Island, the

Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, which is also in central

Suffolk, and the Missio Church in Ridge, Long Island, New York, which is eastern

Suffolk. I will give you all the details on his entire itinerary here in the United States.

If you'd like me to send it to you, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and either put

Pastor's Luncheon or put New York Speaking Engagements for Tony Costa or something similar, and I will get you all the information that you need, and I hope especially to see you

Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, if you are a man in ministry leadership.

Then I am going to be leaving right after I leave Long Island after Dr.

Costa finishes his New York itinerary. I am heading back to Pennsylvania, but I'm going to Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, to the

Elizabethtown College where the Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference is being held. That is going to be on the theme

I Believe in the Holy Spirit, and this is open to all men in ministry leadership, very much like my

Pastor's Luncheons. If you're a pastor, a deacon, if you are a parachurch leader, as long as you're a man in ministry leadership, you are welcome to register at the

East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth. I Believe in the Holy Spirit is the theme. The speakers include

Jeff Kingswood, Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, Steve Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.

If you'd like to register, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org. Then in December, December 19th and the 20th, another conference that I am thrilled to attend is the

Foundations Conference. This is a conference that is orchestrated by Sermon Audio.

Sermon Audio is well known for their very keen discernment on biblical faithfulness.

You don't hear crazy preaching and teaching on Sermon Audio. And if you'd like to attend this event on Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in New York City, I will be there as well, and I hope to see you there.

The speakers at this conference, as always, are a really magnificent lineup of men, including

Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, who I mentioned earlier, who you heard, he was the voiceover for the

New Covenant Church NYC, one of my sponsors. And he is the founder of One Passion Ministries, one of the most powerful preachers alive today.

Paul Washer, another one of the most powerful preachers alive today, is on the lineup. Reverend Jeff Thomas, what a magnificent preacher of the gospel he is.

Pastor for over half a century at Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth Wells, now retired from pastoral ministry and dedicated full -time to itinerant evangelism and writing.

Reverend Armon Tomasian, a young man who I believe is going to be a household name in the next decade. Remember that I said that he is a really remarkable, biblically faithful, reformed pastor and a young man who has gifts and abilities and power far beyond his youth.

I am really looking forward to him as well. Richard Colwell Jr. and Andrew Quigley, I have not yet heard preach, but if Sermon Audio selected them for this conference,

I am very confident they are just as powerful as the other men, and I'm looking forward to hearing them.

If you would like to register for the Foundations Conference, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com.

It's being held, as I said, Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in the heart of New York City, and I hope to see you there.

Look for me when you're there. The venue only holds a little less than 200 people, so if you want to register, do so soon before they run out of room.

Then I'm going to be packing up my bags in January and heading back down south to Atlanta, Georgia.

In fact, I hope that my guest, John Otis, will meet me there. I'm going to the

G3 Conference, which is being held at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, and the theme this

January is Worship Matters. The exact dates of the conference are

Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, and they have a phenomenal lineup of speakers.

Kosti Hinn, and as I keep saying when I mention his name, that name probably sounds familiar, his last name anyway, because his uncle is the notorious charlatan faith healer, so -called

Benny Hinn, and Kosti Hinn, his nephew, who is speaking at the

G3 Conference, repented of his word of faith heresies and has dedicated his life to exposing his uncle and those of his ilk for the frauds and heretics that they are, and he is a cessationist and a

Reformed Baptist today. I'm speaking of Kosti Hinn, so he is in the lineup. David Miller is on the lineup, a good old -fashioned fire and brimstone preacher, really extraordinary man of God.

Derek Thomas, who many of you recognize, especially if you're Reformed, what a wonderful preacher and writer he is.

My friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, Dr. Joel Beeky, pastor of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

My friend Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference. Paul Washer, again, is on this roster as well, and so is

Stephen J. Lawson. My friend Tom Askell, the president of Founders Ministries, is on the lineup.

And Vodie Baucom, what an extraordinary, powerful man of God Vodie Baucom is.

Well, if you want to register to attend the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

I would also strongly recommend, if you have a business or parachurch ministry or organization that you want to promote,

I would register for an exhibitors booth there because they are expecting over 5 ,000 people as they do every year.

I will have an exhibitors booth there as well, so I look forward to seeing you at the G3 Conference. That's Thursday from January 16th through Saturday, January 18th at the

Georgia International Convention Center, College Park, Georgia. That's g3conference .com,

g3conference .com. Now, if you love Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio and you don't want us to disappear, if you count on hearing us every day because you love the speakers and topics that we feature that are very often never heard anywhere else, if you love giving the free downloadable

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Those two things are commands of God and giving to my radio show is not obviously a command of God.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you have extra money to use for benevolent purposes, charitable purposes, then please, if you love the show and you don't want it to go away, go to ironsherpansironradio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. If you want to advertise with us, we could really use your advertising dollars.

So send an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line and I will help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what

I believe. You don't have to believe identically with me, but you need to be promoting something compatible with what I believe. So send that email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

and put advertising in the subject line. If you are not a member of a faithful, biblically sound local church and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion against God.

You've got to rectify that situation. If you need help finding a good church near you, no matter where you live in the world,

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I have helped people find churches all over the world, even those folks that are going on vacation and they don't know where to go to church when they are away from home.

Well, I can help you. Send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put in the subject line,

I need a church home or something similar to that. I will help you. That's also the email address where you can send in a question for Reverend John Otis on the

Scripture's Unchanging Authority. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com

And Reverend Otis, do you want to go right into the book of Amos as you were going to, or do you want to take a listener question first?

Let me go to the book of Amos, and there are several passages that I want to be sure we address before our interview is over today.

That's fine. In Amos 8, well, let me just preface this passage by saying this, in Romans chapter 1 talks about, as we discussed at the outset, that God has revealed himself in creation, therefore men are without excuse, and God has given them over to worshiping four -footed creatures, it says.

And one of the signs of judgment upon a culture is homosexuality there mentioned at the end of chapter 1.

But the worst kind of, I really do believe what we're seeing today in the United States is the clear evidence of God's judgment upon us.

And the worst judgment that can ever happen to us is found here in Amos 8 verses 11 and 12, which says,

Behold, days are coming, declares the Lord God, when I will send a famine on the land, not a famine for bread or a thirst for water, but rather for hearing the words of the

Lord. And people will stagger from sea to sea, from the north even to the east.

They will go to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, but they will not find it.

And so what there is, the worst thing that can happen is that God removes faithful preaching.

And you know, in that light too about our culture, there's a passage in Isaiah that I want to read.

And that is Isaiah chapter 5, verse 20 says, Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness.

You have to ask yourself, how is good and evil defined? Well, the scripture defines that according to the law of God.

Sin is a transgression of the law of God. First John 3, 4. And then one other thing

I want to mention is part of the course that I have set up is that the

Bible views itself as its own authority. And the question oftentimes arises, why do

I believe the Bible to be the word of God? I've preached several sermons on that on sermon audio, by the way.

Why the Bible is the word of God. It is an incredible passage there in second

Peter one, which reads Peter says, we did not follow cleverly devised tools.

We made known to you the power and covenants but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when we received honor and glory from God, the father, such an utterance of this was made to him by the majestic glory.

This is my beloved son with whom I'm well pleased. We ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.

And so we have the prophetic word. Here's the passage. We have the prophetic word made more sure to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place until the day draws and the morning star arises in your hearts.

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will.

But men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. What that reveals

Chris is while there is evidence that corroborates the scriptures, that corroborates the resurrection of Jesus.

It's interesting that Paul says in first Corinthians 15 that Jesus, it says, died for our sins according to the scriptures.

Jesus rose again from the dead according to the scriptures. Peter says the word of God inspired is a more sure testimony than any eyewitness account.

So that goes to show the value, the preeminence, and the authority that the word of God has.

I just wanted to be sure that we address that. Chris Right. Praise God. And we have

Grady, a very faithful listener of Iron Trip and Zion Radio and also a very generous donor and benefactor for Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina says, Great show, Brother Chris and Brother Otis.

After all these years, Satan, the father of lies, is still trying to discredit God's holy word.

His first attack in Genesis 3 was against God's word. Why do you think others will claim

Christianity if they don't believe or obey the infallible, inerrant word of God?

Are they blinded by Satan? Excellent questions. Well, it's interesting that Paul said in 2

Corinthians, I think, chapter 11, talks about how Satan, let me look that passage up here real quick.

While you're looking it up, I will remind our listeners of our email address. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, like Grady, our email address is chrisanzen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves personal and private matter. Okay.

Okay, I got the passage here. It's 2 Corinthians 11, verses 13 to 15.

Paul, speaking about false apostles, false teachers, he says, For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ, and no wonder, for even

Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore, it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their deeds.

Now, it all depends on, to answer maybe the question pointedly, it all depends on what exactly men are saying.

Now, that Grady's question had to do specifically with what now? Why people call themselves

Christians, why do they identify themselves that way if they don't even believe in the inerrancy and the infallibility of God's word?

And you even, as you know, you'll have denominations that not only identify as Christian, but they'll even identify with great heroes of the faith of the past, like you have the

United Methodist Church identifying with John Wesley, and in addition to identifying themselves, more importantly, with Jesus Christ himself, and yet they deny many of the most important, vital things taught by not only

John Wesley, a mere human being, but also Jesus Christ. Why do they perpetuate this?

You know, you have the mainline Presbyterians, of course, and of course, I know that there are faithful Christians in these denominations.

I don't mean to broad brush and say that they all are heretical or apostate, but many of them are, and many in leadership in those denominations are.

And you have Presbyterians who John Knox would never set foot in their church, nor would

John Calvin, and if Jesus Christ entered their doors, it would surely to be to speak condemnation to them and command them to repent.

But anyway, I'm... Yeah, I think that is a very... It's a legitimate question. It is a very serious thing to question the authority of Scripture.

Now, let's remember who is the true teacher. We've been discussing that briefly. It's the

Holy Spirit. When we have the Holy Spirit, like as Jesus said to the apostles, who do men say that I am?

And Peter spoke up and said, you're the Christ of the living God. And then Jesus says, Peter, flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my

Father in heaven. Now, knowing that the Scriptures, Jesus treasured the

Scriptures, one has to ask themselves, where is the Holy Spirit in this person's life if they deride the

Scriptures, completely think that it is can be full of errors, et cetera, et cetera.

That, I think that does raise a question as to where they stand with Christ.

I will say this. I did not grow up in a Christian home. I became a Christian in college as a freshman.

I was an agnostic. I didn't know any better. I believed in evolution. But when God saved me by his sovereign grace,

I instantly knew that the Bible, I had to defend the Bible, that everything in the

Bible had to be true. Now, I didn't have any education whatsoever.

I knew at this point that I would, that somehow I'd have to accept what Genesis says about the days of creation, that there was a real

Adam and Eve. He just came with the territory because I believe when

God saved someone, you have to have the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says, if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you don't have, you don't know the

Lord. So that is a bona fide question to raise.

Anybody who challenges the scripture is suspect and the Holy Spirit is absent.

Yeah, I mean, you can have Bible scholars who are geniuses, who have photographic memory, who might be able to recite enormous portions of scripture from memory.

And yet they're as lost as Hitler. You know, they don't have the

Holy Spirit in them. And just because they know what's in the Bible does not mean that they are born again.

In fact, you can even believe, unlike a liberal, you can believe that these things you're reading are facts.

But if your life has not been transformed by the Holy Spirit, it is evidence that you have the same kind of faith that James says the devils have.

You believe there is one God, you do well, but even the demons believe and they tremble. Yeah, you know, here's another thing in that regard,

Chris, is 1 Corinthians 2 .13 is a powerful passage.

Paul's preaching to the Thessalonians he says in verse 11 through 13, just as you know how we were exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father with his own children, so that you may walk in a manner worthy of God who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

For this reason, we also constantly thank God that when you receive from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

Now, Paul was not the first preacher to ever go through Thessalonica.

So Paul says, however, when I began preaching, you knew there was something different.

You knew it was a message from God and you knew in your heart that it was the word of God, not a word of a man.

Now, how would they know that? Well, the Holy Spirit is the one that revealed that to them. And that's why

I like to talk about the self -authentication of the word of God. Sometimes when

I've preached on this, I've said, why do I believe the Bible to be the word of God? And I always present two possibilities, okay?

I believe the Bible to be, this is option A, I believe the Bible to be the word of God because the evidence demonstrate it to be, or because the

Bible is the word of God, the evidence will corroborate it as the word of God. So I always ask people to think about that for a moment.

And I always want to point out that the second one is the more biblical answer.

I believe the Bible on the basis that God has said it. And yes, evidences will point that to be true, but my faith doesn't rest upon so -called evidences.

My faith rests upon, as Paul says, he rose according to the scriptures because Jesus said he would rise from the dead.

And that in fact is why there's a great passage I do want us to mention too, here in Luke 24, we find

Jesus on the day of his resurrection, he met up with some disciples, not the 12th, but he met up with them on the road to Emmaus and he says to them, they were dejected and he says to them, well, what's going on?

And he says, are you not aware of what was happening? And then Jesus said to them, he says here in verse 24 and following, and some of those who were with us to the tomb found it just exactly as the women had said, but he and they did not see.

And he, meaning Jesus, said to them, oh, foolish men, slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken.

Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter his glory? And then he goes on in verse 44.

Now he said to them, these are my words, which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which were written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets of the

Psalms must be fulfilled. Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures and he said, thus it is written that the

Christ should suffer and rise again from the dead on the third day. So it has to be the

Holy Spirit that opens man's eyes. And it's interesting that Jesus rebuked these disciples, says, why did you rebuke them?

You had the scriptures. You had those scriptures from the law of Moses to the prophets, to the

Psalms. Why didn't you believe them? It spoke of my death. It spoke of my resurrection.

And he rebuked them for that. And so we trust the scriptures as the revealed word of God.

And that is its basis for our faith. I'm going to read a question to you from a listener.

And then I'm going to have you answer it when we come back from our final break, which is going to be much more brief than the last one.

But we have Christopher from Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

I was browsing through your triumphant publications ministry website. And I noticed that you are an author of a book that critiques or seeks to refute theistic evolution.

Having said that, I find it interesting that I believe you are a presuppositionalist.

And yet most people involved in the creation defense of a literal young earth, six day creation are evidentialists.

I was wondering if you could provide an explanation on why a presuppositionalist would write a book against theistic evolution.

And we're going to go to our final break. And we'll have John answer that question when we return.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter, don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages. Tired of box store Christianity?

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Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnson, and we have been interviewing John Otis on Scripture's Unchanging Authority.

If you'd like to join us on the air, you better do so immediately because we're running out of time. chrisarnson at gmail .com

is the email address. As you may recall, Brother Otis, we heard from Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who wants to know why a presuppositionalist would write a book defending young earth creationism and against theistic evolution because in his experience, most people who address or focus on such matters are evidentialists.

If you could very quickly define the difference between a presuppositionalist and an evidentialist and explain why you would write a book as a presuppositionalist on this topic.

I do. I would affirm that I am a presuppositionalist, meaning that I believe the word of God to be the word of God because the

Bible says it's the word of God. I don't put God to the test on the tribunal of my reasoning or anybody else's reasoning.

Let me just read a section out of the back of my book that he was referring to on being theistic evolution and sinful compromise.

I make this comment. Evolution is evolution of proven fact and are the findings of modern science an accurate filter through which we interpret the

Bible? Some today think so. They're called theistic evolutionists. They want to wed theory of evolution with the biblical account of creation.

They think the Genesis account was never intended to be taken in the plain meaning of the words. They think there's no problem with maintaining a view that man evolved from lower forms of life.

Think about it as the reason a presuppositionalist as myself would write such a book is because I take the word of God at face value.

Martin Luther said you should take the plain meaning, ordinarily take the plain meaning of scripture at face value.

I believe the Genesis account to be accurate because the Bible says so. The days mean days. You can do a word study on that.

The hermeneutic dust means dust. It doesn't mean some hybrid form that evolved over millions of years.

That's imposing something on the scripture. I think any presuppositionalist would defend it, would write such a book because it's what scripture says.

It's trying to be faithful hermeneutic to the word of God. And because the Bible says it,

I believe it. Now, would an evidentialist in contrast to a presuppositionalist view the using of evidence?

Because I know that both use evidences. I mean, a presuppositionalist who's in a debate, well, if he's in a debate, he's going to produce evidence to convince an audience of what he believes.

But is it that the evidentialist believes that perhaps they deny

Romans 1 too much, even if unconsciously? Would that be it? They believe they have to convince men of the existence of God and so forth.

Well, that is a problem. That is a problem right there. One time I heard John Ankerberg speak in Atlanta against the movie

The Last Temptation of Christ. And I stood behind him while he was talking to two college students that challenged him.

And Ankerberg, he was a true evidentialist, said to them, and I appreciated it, Ankerberg's program at the time.

However, he was saying, I'm trying to present to you the evidences of Christianity and all this.

And I was getting frustrated. And I was thinking, John, just preach to them, John. Just take

Paul in Acts 17. He preached to people, the Stoics and the

Epicureans who did not believe in a resurrection. So what did Jesus say? God has raised up this man

Jesus to be the judge of the living and the dead. It didn't bother Paul one bit that they didn't believe in that.

And so we have to be careful of how we use evidences.

Yes, I use evidences only in a corroborative sense, but never, ever as the basis for my faith.

Because someone could say, what's going to happen if they find the bones of Jesus? And I go, well, whatever bones they found is not

Jesus. And why? I said, well, it's over in Jerusalem.

No, because the scripture says he rose again from the dead. Paul said, according to the scriptures.

Amen. Well, we're out of time, brother Otis. And I look forward to you returning soon and often.

We've got to make this a regular habit rather than waiting months and years to have you return.

And I want to make sure our listeners have all the information they need for you. First of all, Triumphant Publications can be found at TriumphantPublications .com.

That's easy enough. TriumphantPublications .com. And of course, the

Good News Bible Series that we were discussing for the last two hours, that can be found at GoodNewsBibleSeries .com.

Also very easy to remember. GoodNewsBibleSeries .com. Do you have any other information that you'd like to provide?

No, that's sufficient, Chris. Let me just encourage people. These courses are all free.

And this course on Scriptures Unchanging Authority, I can guarantee you on the authority of the Word of God that if you take this course and you study these passages, you'll come away with an appreciation of the

Word of God that you never had before. And the reason I can say, guarantee it, because I know how the

Holy Spirit works. Amen. Well, thank you so much, John. And I thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

And I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for our guests tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.