May 10, 2022 Show with Virgil Walker on “The New Lows of Leftist Protestors Viewed Through Biblical Lenses”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlyle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 10th day of May, 2022, and I'm excited to have back on the program one of my favorite guests.

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His name will be no stranger to our listeners, Virgil Walker, Executive Director of Operations at G3 Ministries, and he's co -host with Darrell Bernard Harrison of the

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Just Thinking podcast and co -author of a new book with Darrell Bernard Harrison titled

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Why Are You Afraid? Today we're going to be addressing the new lows of leftist protester views viewed through biblical lenses.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Virgil Walker. Hey, brother, it's a joy to be with you and with your listeners, and man,

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I'm always excited to get a chance to talk to you, whatever the topic is, wherever we're looking to aim the lens of a biblical worldview, so glad to be with you, glad to join you.

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Thanks for having me. Well, first of all, let our listeners know about G3 Ministries, and also

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I'm very excited to be attending once again the G3 conference.

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This will actually be, even though I've been at, I believe, at least five

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G3 conferences, I've never been to one of the regional conferences, and I'm excited to be there coming up in September in Washington, D .C.,

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but first tell us about G3 Ministries. Yeah, G3 Ministries is a ministry that really aims to educate, encourage, and equip local churches for the glory of God, and we do so in a number of ways.

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One, which you just mentioned, is our conferences. G3 started as a conference -based ministry.

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The national G3 conference is something that people have come to enjoy over the course of the years.

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I got involved in about 2017 with G3 and attending their national conferences, and they've just grown exponentially over the course of years.

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This is a ministry that started in 2012, and Dr. Josh Bice, the founder and president, and he just wanted to have a theology conference at a local church, began to do so, and unbeknownst to him, the excitement and enthusiasm around sound biblical exposition and preaching, sound doctrine and theology was so enormous that this, you know, once local church -based conference, if you will, began to explode to the point where they had to take it off -site from that local church and into where some of the convention centers around the

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Atlanta area, and so it's, again, I showed up, I watched it online for years from where I sat and then was able to attend my first conference in 2017, and so it's just gone from, you know, about 3 ,000 in 2017 to where we were this last year at the convention center here in Georgia, the

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Georgia World Congress Center, where we hosted somewhere in the neighborhood of about 6 ,500 people from around the world.

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We had every speaker that you can imagine or that you would like to hear, everybody from Dr. Steve Walshman to Voting Bauckham to John McArthur, of course

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Josh Bice was there, you name it, we had it, and it's come to be something that people think of during the course of the years as something they want to mark down.

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It's kind of become what some refer to as Sheep Con. You have Shep Con there in California with Dr.

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John McArthur, and so Sheep Con, this is not just for pastors, it's for the whole family, so you'll see the whole family come out to a

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G3 event and really enjoy the experience. So a little bit about G3, with our transition,

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I'll simply say this, we are transitioning from a conference -based ministry solely to one that provides resources to local churches.

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I was an education and discipleship pastor there in Omaha, Nebraska for years.

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I would show up to these conferences in an effort to gather information, connect with brothers from around the country, and really grow there at my local church.

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What we've decided to do over the course of some time is we wanted to develop resources that could be of benefit to local church pastors where they are.

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We've brought on, not only have I been able to join the team as Executive Director of Operations, we also have

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Dr. Scott Annual who has come over. He was a seminary professor for years at Southwestern.

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He's come on, he's now the Executive Vice President and Editor -in -Chief there at G3, and he is just churning out great materials for discipleship, for family discipleship, education and the like for local churches all over.

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We're developing the G3 Church Network, which is a network of churches that connect with us and are encouraged on a monthly basis.

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There's just so many things. I could go on and on. There's so many things that are happening right now at G3, and it's just become ground zero as a one -stop shop for local church pastors and the like.

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Amen. Well, I'm excited to be attending, as I already mentioned, your upcoming regional conference in Washington, D .C.,

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September 15th through the 17th. And you've got an excellent lineup there as well.

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You have Steve Lawson. You have Josh Bice. You have my dear friend of many years, going back to 1996,

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. And, of course, you've got you and Daryl Bernard Harrison of the

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Just Thinking Podcast. And the theme is going to be Just Thinking the Bible. Now, that's a very broad topic in and of itself.

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What are you going to be specifically highlighting on the Bible? Yeah, I appreciate that. The regional conferences, let me start by telling you, the regional conferences are something that we really aimed to put in places and spaces that didn't have as much gospel -like.

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We normally think of the south as the buckle of the Bible belt, maybe

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Atlanta being a part of that as well. Just a lot of southern churches, a lot of able -to -connect -with folks.

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So we wanted to look for an area in the country where we felt like there may be just some missing pieces of the puzzle.

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And we were excited to lock arms with a church there in Virginia, Emanuel Bible Church there.

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So we'll be on that site primarily, but also connecting our folks who attend the conference to the

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Bible Museum so they'll have an opportunity to engage there. G3 was kind -hearted enough to connect with Daryl and me on the

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Just Thinking side. And as a part of that, we kind of co -branded this with G3 and with Just Thinking, the

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Just Thinking Podcast. Well, the idea that since we were going to be there near the Museum of the

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Bible, it will be important for us to talk about an issue that really covers the ground, if you will, on so many different areas, which is the issue is the sufficiency of Scripture.

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Everywhere we turn, Bible sufficiency is being challenged. You have the

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Southern Baptist Convention who believes that there may be a need for us to add on additional analytical tools like CRT in an effort to understand the real nature of racism and the like.

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As we look around the landscape of culture, we're seeing this whether it's

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Presbyterian churches, whether it's Episcopal churches. You look anywhere around mainline

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Christianity, evangelical circles as well, you'll see an attack on Scripture's sufficiency.

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Most will give lip service to, yeah, I believe the Bible's inerrant. Most will do that. Few will really understand what it means that the

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Bible is sufficient. So we've got some great men who are going to be a part of this conference that folks will not want to miss,

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I can guarantee you. We're going to be talking about biblical sufficiency and applying it to the different areas of culture.

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Well, praise God. And once again, folks, and I will be, God willing, repeating this later on, but the conference is

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September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. And for more details on registering, go to g3men .org,

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g3men .org, and click on Events. And you will see Just Thinking About the

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Bible, the conference in D .C., September 15th, 17th. I'm very excited about being there.

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And I haven't been to D .C. in many, many years, so that's an extra added excitement for me.

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In fact, I don't even think I've been to Washington, D .C. since I was in grammar school. Yeah, yeah.

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It's interesting, Chris, thinking about going there. In fact, as we began kind of putting this together, we were assessing kind of where things were politically with regard to mask mandates and vaccine, you know, things that were required.

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We were fortunate that we were on the tail end of all of that. So none of that kind of thing at this point is required.

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We definitely checked with the folks at the Museum of the Bible to investigate where they were with all of that.

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And so all of that is free and clear. So folks are going to be able to really come and enjoy just a special time.

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And, again, if you haven't been a part of regional conferences, the goal of that is kind of to put you in the mindset of maybe what you experienced,

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Chris, when you first started coming. I know you've been with G3, the conference, for quite some time, probably going back to the days when they were at Praise Mill.

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And so it's more that smaller, intimate setting, the opportunity to really connect with people, have access to speakers and the like.

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It's going to be a real, real great opportunity. Well, another thing I'm excited about is you and Daryl have co -authored another book, and this one's titled

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Why Are You Afraid? That is a very compelling title. Tell us about that. Well, we, again, as we're looking around, we're going to be talking about this some today, just the atmosphere of fear that seems to surround every decision, every issue, whether it's a political issue, whether it's an economic issue.

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At the time when we were writing this, people were wrestling with whether or not they were going to maintain their jobs because they were being required to take vaccines, right, in order to maintain a job.

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So with all of that, there was just the uncertainty, the fear that was taking place.

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But, again, none of that has abated, right? We've just witnessed economic costs for inflation rising.

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In fact, I was just reading a report today that baby formula is actually not available in as great quantities as it had been.

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So with all of the ideas about fear and what we're seeing in culture and how everything seems to be pushing us in that direction,

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I think Daryl and I sat down and thought it would be really wise and prudent of us to write something, put something together.

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And, again, this was based upon a podcast that we had done about the same topic with the same title,

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Why Are You Afraid? And we really wanted to settle for the Christian, for the believer, the issue of fear, and that we are to fear the

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Lord, and that as we do that, all the other things that we're concerned about will align themselves as we understand

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God's sovereignty in all things, His providence in all things, and really begin to have a biblical worldview as it relates to what culture is trying to do related to fear.

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Now, is this the first publication of G3 Press? Because I knew you guys were launching

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G3 Press, but I had never actually seen a book cover yet until I'm looking right now at your book,

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Why Are You Afraid? Yeah, this was the first opportunity for us to be published by G3 Press.

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We were extremely excited. Again, this partnership is pretty deep for us. On the just thinking side,

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Daryl and me, and then with Josh Bice and with the team, just kind of began to just kind of collaborate and think, how can we leverage opportunities with us?

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There's some other connection points. There's some other ways in which we've partnered.

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But this was one of the first forays that really took hold. We felt like it would be a good first launch, and so far it's proven to have done incredibly well.

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We're always wanting to get it into the hands of as many people as possible, but again, G3 Press just launched.

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They've got a number of books already that are out on the press, so if you're interested in learning more, go to g3min .org

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and just kind of look up the press. Or you can go to our store, g3min .org

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forward slash shop. You can go to our shop and see all of the books that are there and the other things that are available, the resources that are there.

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As well, if you go to the website, there's a number of different things that you can download for free. Again, I talk about this endlessly because there's so many great things that are happening in the press.

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Having a press, being able to publish works is something that we're extremely excited about, and Daryl and I are really excited about launching the first book with G3 Press.

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Well, praise God. And I'd love to have you and Daryl on the show together soon to address the very theme of that book.

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Absolutely. We'd be delighted to. Well, one of the things people are afraid about right now is or are the new lows of leftist protesters.

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It is really discouraging to say the least. It's sickening because not only are there violent protesting going on, and protests have been going on ever since this country began, and many of them for very good and noble and right reasons.

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But here you have protesters, leftist protesters, actually going to the homes of Supreme Court justices and being very threatening and ominous.

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The thing that makes it all doubly more disturbing is the fact that you have the

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President of the United States and many very high up executives in authority,

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Nancy Pelosi and others, giving their blessing to this. And it's absolutely astonishing to see this.

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I mean, I don't know why it's astonishing because it's very expected of these people. But in light of the fact that what occurred at January 6th has been called an insurrection by them, and people are still in jail who very peacefully protested.

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They were guilty of trespassing, they were guilty of breaking and entering, but nothing of violence by them occurred other than the fact that a police officer shot one of the protesters.

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In fact, the only one that died in that whole scenario was a conservative woman who happened to be one of the protesters, and there were at least one police officer died of natural causes.

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It was not because of a violent attack or anything. But if you could tell us, how are we to look at all this through biblical lenses?

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I think to really begin, you actually have to go back to what created all of this to begin with.

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And it was the fact that we had a decision on the Supreme Court regarding Roe v. Wade. And as the draft of that decision made its rounds in the

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Supreme Court, that information was leaked. And so it really begins, this whole issue related to Roe v.

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Wade starts there. And then the response to that, the response to that wasn't, we're going to take every turn, investigate, and really identify where this leak took place and how it undermines the authority of the

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Supreme Court and what takes place in the halls of justice at the

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Supreme Court level. There was really little by way of lip service.

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In fact, if you watched what was taking place in news outlets, what they were doing was kind of, they were actually congratulating the person who leaked this.

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This was good for us to know so that we can prepare in advance to see this thing overturned since it hadn't come to the point of a final decision.

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That's kind of what you began seeing, and that kind of set the tenor for what was to take place next, which was that the next phase of this was to watch actors.

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And I say that because when you have folks who are sworn to uphold the law, folks that are in Congress who are supposed to carry themselves with a certain level of dignity, what you had was a lot of them were taking to Twitter, were taking to Instagram, were taking to social media.

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And effort to express their anger, their outrage, and the like. And so they were giving the signals to others that they were free to go about and protest.

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And let me say this. You mentioned it at the outset of your commentary, which is our country is kind of built on protest, on the idea of voicing your opinion, making your voice heard and known.

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But there are grounds by which that's to happen and not to take place. And so what we're witnessing now is protest in an effort to change a decision or to change the mind of the court, and that's problematic.

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All of this is in an effort to thwart God, and so that's where we get to the biblical worldview on this piece, right?

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The issue of Roe v. Wade, the idea of trying to cement or codify into law that which

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God has called life, that which God has called murder, that which God has deemed as an image bearer of God, created in his image and likeness, worthy of value, dignity, and worth, whose life should not be taken.

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And then you have another group, another organization, another group of people who are advocating that which

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God opposes. And so really at the end of the day, we need to look at what's taking place through that lens, and then we've got to go back to the law of the land.

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So there's two facets to this. One is the issue of sin, right, with the murder of a baby.

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And then the other is the legality aspect, the criminal aspect of the law that needs to be looked at at a state, federal, and local level.

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Those are the two pieces of the puzzle. Yes, and the thing that is also extremely disturbing about the modern -day abortion so -called rights activists and those seeking abortions, most of my life where I was old enough to be aware in any detail at all about abortion and what was taking so long, especially after I became a

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Christian, the claim of the left used to be for a very long time, no one can really say for certain when life begins.

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That used to be the rhetoric. We don't really know this is a human, we don't know this is a baby, et cetera, et cetera.

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But according to people I know on the front lines, like Jeff Durbin of Apologia Church, who is very actively involved right in the trenches at abortion clinics at Planned Parenthood, at infanticide mills, as I think they should be more appropriately called.

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And he has been used by God, he and his church and those who volunteer have been used by God to rescue hundreds of babies from slaughter.

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But the thing that he told me a couple of years ago that really astonished me was that he said every single woman that he has stopped and spoken with as she was approaching the

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Planned Parenthood about to murder her unborn child, these women, he said every one of them, and he must have spoken to thousands by now, he said every one of them knew that they were killing a baby.

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There was no excuse about a blob of cells. That makes it more disturbingly sinister.

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And you have an obvious open profession and declaration that the murderers are very, very aware that they are murdering.

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Yes, yes, absolutely. I will tell you this. It was men like Jeff Durbin, men like Tony Miano, and people like that who were out on the front lines.

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In fact, here at my own church, here at Praise Mill, Bobby McCreary, all are men who have gone out and been on the front lines at abortion mills.

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It was actually a video that I watched almost eight years ago, probably nine years ago now, of Tony Miano at an abortion mill that encouraged me to go and do the same kind of thing.

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So there I was in Omaha, Nebraska for about five years while I was there at the abortion mill regularly.

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And I can very effectively tell you that the vast majority of those girls who were going in knew and made us aware in no uncertain terms that they knew they were killing a baby.

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They absolutely knew. They absolutely desired to go through that procedural process.

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The only people that I run into that are trying to play the clump of cells types of arguments are those who are trying to sway public opinion or wanting to sound softer to those that they recognize.

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If they're as blatant and as open as they need to be on this issue, that it would sound offensive, that it would sound horrific.

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And the reason it sounds that way is because it absolutely is horrific. And so it's better for them to couch it and know it's really not a baby.

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This is no different than the arguments that were given for slavery, right? What they didn't know at those times was that blacks weren't really human beings, right?

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They weren't like us. They were some different form of human or subhuman at least in an effort to advocate doing all kinds of inhumane things to slaves.

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And so the same kind of argumentation, the same kind of ideas here. But I completely agree with you,

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A, that those men like that that were out doing that kind of frontline work have served to inspire many, many more.

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I was definitely one of those who saw their work and was inspired as I understood the issue of life as a believer and the need to advocate for those who can't speak for themselves.

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I was definitely there for years at the abortion mill. And, of course, you even have the murder of the unborn now being added by the murder of the born.

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And that's been going on for quite a while. It was going on even when

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Barack Obama was a senator in Illinois and I don't even know how much farther before him where babies who were, quote, quote, accidentally delivered alive during an attempt at aborting them were merely put in a box and put in a storage closet and just left to die of natural causes, quote, quote.

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Utterly grotesque and just so reminiscing of Nazi Germany.

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I mean, it's just it's vile. And, you know, it's very difficult for Christians very often to keep their cool about this because of the intensity of how it is.

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How what kind of counsel do you have as we as Christians are interacting with people who are in favor of abortion?

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And, you know, you don't want to lose your head and you don't want to be involved in a shouting match.

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But at the same time, you don't want to be just calm, cool and collected to the point where your differences of opinion with a pro -infanticide individual may seem like you're having a discussion over your differences on eschatology or something.

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Right, right, right, right. I think I think I think environment really plays a big deal.

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And what I mean by that is simply if I'm at an abortion clinic, the conversation is going to sound very different between me and someone who's abortion minded at the clinic.

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Right. That's going to be very different than than what it may sound like over a dinner table conversation where maybe relatives have come over for the holiday.

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And the subject of Roe v. Wade comes up and we're talking about it and interacting with one another.

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So that's that's that's the biggest I think there's a difference there. At the same time, what

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I'm going to share in those spaces and places, I think there's an aspect of it that needs to be very matter of fact, because we need to recognize the truths that we share from the word of God aren't our truth.

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Right. They're true whether we believe them or not. They're God's truth.

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And we're but ambassadors of that truth. And so as ambassadors, we I think there's a responsibility that we have to conduct ourselves in a way that's befitting someone who is indeed an ambassador for a kingdom.

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And so we've got to be mindful of that. I think it's critical that we engage the conversation to the degree that we can around the gospel, because anyone who does not understand or have a biblical worldview or be their hearts and minds have been transformed by the gospel are going to even understand what we're talking about.

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We say that a human being is created in God's image, has distinct value, dignity and worth.

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They're not going to comprehend, understand. They may give a nod to that, but in their worldview, none of that makes sense.

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And so I think we've got to think about those things. And there are times when I was listening to Paul Washer today was talking about sometimes it's important for us when we're engaged in evangelism rather than going at people, be willing to pray for them.

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There are times when maybe the conversation needs to be tailored off or tapered off, especially if you feel yourself getting emotional or emotive about it to the degree that you're going to lose your cool.

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It's imperative that we step back and pray. My wife always reminds me that prayer is not the least we can do.

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Prayer is the first thing that we should do. And so being prayerful about those folks who are just blind, have no clear understanding of a biblical worldview is incredibly, incredibly important.

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But gospel conversation is paramount, even at the abortion mill. I know that there are some pro -life folks who say, hey, don't bring that gospel to the door of the abortion clinic.

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And there's no way for me not to do that. That's got to be the case. We have to engage with the gospel because it really starts there.

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We're going to offer all the free this, free that, free the other, but we also have to let people know that they can be free from their sin as well.

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And that only takes place through repenting of sin and placing faith in Jesus Christ. Wow, I didn't even know that there were pro -life individuals who would rebuke

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Christian pro -life folks for bringing the gospel to the situation. Oh, yes, absolutely.

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Absolutely there are. Those conversations are numerous and frequent when you're out there.

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Hey, if you could tap down the gospel presentation, just focus on getting her, getting this young lady to a safe place and safe this and safe that.

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And my response is always we're happy to provide all of those safe things, but they need to know that they're coming to an abortion clinic more times than not for the purpose of hiding sin.

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The baby is not the sin, but the issue of having slept around, having been promiscuous, having had this baby more times than not outside of wedlock, they're trying to cover something.

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And we want them to know that the cover that they're looking for can only be found in Jesus Christ by first repenting of sin and placing faith in him.

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And so those kinds of things are just as important as all the other aspects of engaging a young lady at an abortion mill.

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Well, we have to go to our first break. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Virgil Walker, our email address is

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

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As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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And we'll be right back, right after these messages, so don't go away. I'm Dr.

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That's hopereformli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

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That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

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It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

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Dr. Morecraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

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For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Welcome back.

41:13

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the entire program is Virgil Walker.

41:20

He is well known to our listeners as one of the co -hosts of the

41:26

Just Thinking podcast, along with Darrell Bernard Harrison. He is also executive director of operations at G3 Ministries and co -author of a new book along with Darrell Bernard Harrison, Why Are You Afraid?

41:40

Today we are addressing the new lows of leftist protesters viewed through biblical lenses.

41:45

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

41:59

We do have a listener who is not only a faithful and loyal listener to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and a very generous contributor financially to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but he's also a very frequent and faithful attender to the

42:17

G3 conferences. In fact, you may even recognize this name yourself. It's Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina.

42:26

And Grady asks, Brother Virgil, please correct me if I'm wrong, but from my viewpoint, abortion for those having them...

42:38

Let me reread this. I'm getting the wording a little bit awkward.

42:45

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my point of view, abortion for those having them seems to be from selfish desires, not wanting the responsibility of raising a child.

42:57

However, those in authority seem to be motivated by the amount of monetary gain.

43:05

Look at the amount of dollars our government has given to the abortion industry. Do you agree with this assessment?

43:12

I think it's a sound one. I really do. I think most women who make decisions to have abortion, the vast majority of them, are willing to sacrifice their child on the altar of convenience.

43:27

It's inconvenient for them to have a child. It's inconvenient financially, economically, in other words.

43:34

In fact, I was looking at some statistics today that said the vast majority of those who have abortion actually make more than $30 ,000 to $40 ,000 a year.

43:44

So this idea that only the impoverished, only those who don't have money, who don't have resources, who lack education are the ones getting abortions is not an accurate assessment.

43:56

Most of these people know, most of these ladies know what they're doing. They've made a conscious decision to sacrifice their child on the altar of convenience.

44:05

And they do so, in some instances, very proudly. I mean, you were witnessing that this week if you were watching the news where folks would get on microphones and shout their abortion out.

44:18

And those kinds of ideas behind something so vile, wicked, and evil should never really be taking place.

44:25

From a standpoint of government, really the issue is even deeper than you would suggest with regard to money.

44:33

This is a religion. Abortion is religion to those who advocate it.

44:40

For those who are advocating this, abortion is a sacrament, right? It's a spiritual right that they have as women.

44:49

It's an effort for them to not have to be entrapped, as they see it, by the patriarchy, and not have to raise children that they can have be sexually promiscuous without any kind of recourse, without any kind of consequence, and can go on about their lives in the same way that they see men doing.

45:11

Both are wrong. To have sex outside of marriage is wrong.

45:17

It's sinful. But what they're wanting to do is, again, they're wanting to ignore God, what thus saith the

45:23

Lord, do what they want to do, and operate in the manner in which they do. And as they do that, they only heap one sin on top of the other.

45:31

The fornication, the abortion, and apart from the gospel of Jesus Christ, apart from repenting of that idea, ideology, and way of thinking, and repenting of sin, and placing their full faith in Christ, they'll have to give an account at the end of their days.

45:52

They'll have to give an account to a holy God who will see things rightly in that day. Amen. Well, thank you,

45:58

Grady. And guess what? You have won a free copy of Why Are You Afraid? So make sure that you give us your full mailing address in Asheboro, North Carolina.

46:09

And I'm hoping to see you at the G3 regional conference coming up in September.

46:20

Let's see, we do have another listener.

46:27

We have RJ in White Plains, New York. And RJ says,

46:34

I know that you and Daryl appear to be opposed to the leftist infatuation with race, and the highlighting of race, and making race such a matter of distinction between persons.

46:53

But I was wondering, are those in error who are excited about bringing the

47:00

Reformed faith to the black community, where it is in such a tiny minority, even more of a minority than it is in the white community, is this an improper focus, wanting to see our dear black neighbors in the community come to the

47:16

Reformed faith? I obviously know that evangelizing Christianity is the much more important aspect, no matter what color individuals are.

47:29

But how do you feel about those who are really targeting the black community and wanting them to come to see and understand the doctrines of sovereign grace?

47:40

Yeah, there's a fine line with that. There's an edge of the line that you want to be careful not to cross on that, and that is the assumption that all blacks are monolithic in their thought.

47:57

In other words, all of them are engaged in prosperity preaching, and that's all they know, right? Or all of them are engaged in Pentecostalism or the

48:05

Word of Faith, and so they've got to hear Reformed theology. And so if that's the mindset,

48:11

I think that's problematic. I think the better heartbeat behind it, and I sense that that is where the person asking the question is going.

48:19

The better heartbeat around that is this, is that you want to make sure that everyone, irrespective of ethnicity, has the opportunity to hear the truth of the gospel, to hear it proclaimed with crystal clarity, to be involved in expositional preaching that is sound, that is robust, that includes doctrines of grace, that allows folks to understand the sovereignty of God and the monergistic effort of salvation on the part of God alone, that we're saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.

48:54

And those kinds of things are important, and there's nothing wrong with being excited to see a people group come into that knowledge.

49:02

I think when we begin to say, okay, we're going to go target these folks, these black folks, and here's what we need to do.

49:08

We've got to contextualize the message in an effort to reach them.

49:14

We want to sound a certain way and look a certain way, which has unfortunately plagued so much of evangelicalism, the pragmatic approaches, the contextualization of not just the text of Scripture, but the whole manner in which we share the gospel.

49:29

You mean like white Democrats typically do in black churches? Absolutely.

49:36

As we all saw, Hillary Clinton's attempt, who sounded more like an

49:44

Appalachian white woman than the black voice that she was trying to imitate.

49:53

It's not only condescending, it's absolutely embarrassing. What those kinds of things say to me is that you're more racist than you're trying to put on, because you think that you have to carry a sound or draw, or you have to hoop, or you have to just be you and love people and share the truth of the gospel.

50:12

Those kinds of things are problematic. Again, as I mentioned, there's a line by which we want to be excited when we see any people group, regardless of the color of their skin, the level of melanin in their skin.

50:24

We want to be excited when we see anyone come to a saving knowledge of Christ or a greater understanding of Bible truth, but we want to do so in a way that doesn't solely point to their ethnicity as the goal of the message.

50:40

And of course, just like everything else, that kind of nonsense is not only found amongst white folk.

50:51

My dear friend, who is now in heaven, Dr. Robert J. Cameron, who was a black

50:57

Orthodox Presbyterian pastor in New Jersey and before that he was in the PCA, and before that he was in the

51:03

Reformed Episcopal Church, but he told me that he couldn't even count the number of times that black folks would visit his church, and then afterwards, when he was greeting them at the door as people were leaving, how many times a black couple or a person would say, you know, we agreed with everything you said, but you just don't preach black enough, so we really doubt we're going to be returning, so sorry about that.

51:35

You see that the other way, and at the end of the day, truth knows no color.

51:40

Truth does not care about the color of your skin. The proper exposition of Scripture, the understanding of Bible truth, sound theology, is not concerned with the level of melanin in someone's skin.

51:55

And so I remember when someone introduced me to R .C.

52:00

Sproul's book, What Is Reformed Theology, I didn't care whether the guy who—I didn't know what the color of the skin of the person who wrote the book was.

52:09

I had no idea. All I did was I read it, and God showed me the truth, based upon the

52:15

Scripture, and that's all that mattered to me. And so I didn't care what he sounded like or did he hoop right on Sunday morning or did he preach like a—you know, have a drawl or, you know, breathlessly express a

52:30

Scripture. I didn't care about any of that. All I cared about was God had illuminated my mind to His—to the beauty and glory of salvation, and that it had nothing to do with me.

52:43

The only thing I had to add to that was the sin that required the sacrifice of His Son.

52:49

And so when I understood that, to the degree that I did through that book, I just—it was like a whole new way for me.

52:58

It was like a whole—it was like a cloudy sky had gotten bright and clear with the brightness of the sun.

53:05

I mean, that was how it was for me, and my encouragement would be, go share that truth irrespective of ethnicity, go share the beauty of Christ, and make that central.

53:16

Well, folks, we've got to go to our midway break. Please be patient with us because it's a bit longer than the other breaks.

53:22

It's required to be longer by Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida, because they have to localize this program to the

53:31

Lake City, Florida area geographically with their own public service announcements, and that's a requirement of the

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FCC. And while they do that, we air our globally heard commercials. Please try to respond to our advertisers as much as you can, and at the very least, thank them for sponsoring this program.

53:50

Don't go away. We're going to be right back, right after these messages from our sponsors. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend

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Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

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Thursday, September 15th, through Saturday, September 17th, and I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

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Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

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and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible, nearby the conference venue, in Washington, D .C.

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So join me and Chris Arnzen, September 15th through the 17th, in Washington, D .C.,

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org,

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that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Uvinio, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

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Truth is so hard to come by these days, so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

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Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now. And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Evino, and thank you. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

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The church I've been strongly recommending, as far back as the 1980s, is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

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.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

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Or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

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Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, they seek to bring you the best available

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I'm Pastor Joseph Piper, President and Professor of Systematic and Homiletical Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina.

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And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White of the

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First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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I'm Pastor Anthony Methenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia, and the NASB is my

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Before we return to my interview with Virgil Walker, who is one half, along with Darrell Bernard Harrison, of the

01:09:19

Just Thinking podcast, and he is also Executive Director of Operations for G3 Ministries, before we return to our topic,

01:09:27

I just have a couple more announcements to make. Folks, if you really love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves,

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I'm urging you please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

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You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion. If you prefer snail mail, mailing in a physical check the old -fashioned way, well, there will be a physical address that also appears on your screen when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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Please remember, as much as I love receiving money from my listeners,

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I want you to never take money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to, to your own local church, where you are a member, if it is a

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Bible -believing church, in order to give us a gift. Please never do that.

01:10:19

One of the pillars of this program, one of the motivations and very reasons

01:10:24

I launched this program was to be a friend, a helping hand, a platform and an extension of the faithful local pastor and the faithful local church.

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I never want to do anything that harms or hinders the work of the faithful local pastor and church, even financially.

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So please don't give your own church less money in order to give us a gift. Also, if you are really struggling to survive, please don't plunge your family into even further financial peril just because you're giving us a gift for IronSharpensIronRadio.

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Those two things are commands of God providing for church and family. Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

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But if you do love this show, you don't want it to disappear, and you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and your family,

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I'm urging you please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com, click Support, and claim it now.

01:11:26

Also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, doctrinally solid, theologically sound congregation, no matter where you live on the planet

01:11:37

Earth, I may be able to help you find a church that is a Christ -honoring and biblically faithful church.

01:11:43

I've helped many people in my audience all over the world find churches in Australia, in Africa, all 50 states of the

01:11:53

United States, and many other places globally. I've helped people find churches, and I may be able to help you find a church, too, that's biblically faithful, and sometimes even within minutes of your own home.

01:12:05

So if you are in that predicament, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:12:13

chrisarnson at gmail .com, but I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Virgil Walker.

01:12:21

On our theme, The New Lows of Leftist Protestors Viewed Through Biblical Lenses. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:12:28

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. And don't we have to always remind ourselves, if we want to be ambassadors for Christ in this very evil world, that we have to remind ourselves that it is not only a battlefield that we are on, but it's also a mission field, and that souls far more wicked than ones we are confronting have been brought to Christ by His mercy.

01:13:01

Are you there? Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, now I can. Good, good, good, good.

01:13:07

Well, there's a couple of things, man, as you kind of came out of announcements. I will tell you, that's probably one of the best pleas that I've heard for giving, and just sound in the way that you delivered that, encouraging folks to give, but also to make sure that they're not ignoring the local church.

01:13:31

And man, you've been such a friend, not only to me, to Daryl, but to so many. I know to G3 and the

01:13:38

G3 family, what a blessing you've been. We're honored any time that you're able to come join us, and we're looking forward to connecting with you in September, man.

01:13:47

Me too. In Washington, D .C., yeah. But as far as the question

01:13:53

I asked, when we find ourselves getting furious, and we are filled, and rightfully so, with righteous indignation, don't we have to keep reminding ourselves that we're not only on a battlefield, but we're also on a mission field?

01:14:12

Don't we have to constantly remind ourselves that we may be facing, in a confrontation, somebody that we are viewing as vile and satanic, and they may indeed be.

01:14:26

But they also may be a person for whom Christ died, and I say it like that because I believe in limited atonement, or definite atonement,

01:14:35

I don't believe Christ died for every single human being that ever lived. But we don't know who the elect are, unless they have already become born again, and they are regenerate, and they are bearing fruit of that.

01:14:50

But when we are facing either an evil mob, or an evil individual, instead of being just stirred up with anger, we have to remind ourselves that this soul may be saved, may be rescued from the pit of hell.

01:15:07

Yeah. I think one that's spot on, I love what you shared about just kind of separating those ideas that where we are doing battle, we are in a cultural fight, a cultural war, if you will.

01:15:21

At the end of the day, winning that war only lends itself to moralism, right?

01:15:27

People are acting better, doing better, living by the Ten Commandments, but that only goes so far.

01:15:35

One, they're never able to fulfill the law. We know that. If we were able to fulfill the law,

01:15:41

Christ would have had to come. But two, I have to remember and remind myself that were it not for the grace of God, there go

01:15:50

I, right? One of the things that is helpful from a standpoint of understanding doctrines of grace, you mentioned limited atonement, understanding our total depravity, understanding our own wicked evilness, right?

01:16:05

And it's the Puritans who do such a great job that if you ever get an opportunity, for those who have a chance to read the

01:16:12

Puritans, their devotion to the Lord, their seriousness by which they thought about sin and their own sinfulness, the prayers that they prayed as a result of repentance, those things are very real and incredibly helpful to remind us that apart from Christ, that's me.

01:16:34

And so oftentimes, whether it was an abortion meal or whether it's an issue that I'm having, a political debate, an interaction about something sinful, maybe someone's embraced an area of sin in their lives,

01:16:48

I constantly remind myself that, man, that's me. I remember when the whole

01:16:54

George Floyd thing happened, I remember having interview conversations where I told people that the public narrative was such that if you were black, you had to identify with George Floyd, or if you were a sympathizer to the cause, you identified with George Floyd as a victim.

01:17:13

And out of that victimhood, there were some things that those who didn't look like you needed to be responsible for.

01:17:20

No one would identify themselves with the police officer, Derek Chauvin.

01:17:26

And so I remember being on radio broadcasts where I said, you know what? I see myself in both men, not as a victim per se, but as someone who someone has done something wrong to, someone has wronged me.

01:17:40

And I've experienced that, but I've also been the perpetrator of wrong, right? I've been the guy who hated my brother.

01:17:47

Scripture tells us if we hate our brother, we're as a murderer. And so having that hatred in your heart,

01:17:53

I could see myself as an image bearer of God in both of those men, in their own sinful conditions, which is all the more reason why my appeal is not to man, not to a group, not to a race, not to an ethnicity, but to a sovereign

01:18:07

God who can ransom me, who can redeem me, who can save me from the muck and mire.

01:18:12

But once saved, once cleansed, once justified, once made right with a true and living

01:18:17

God, I don't forget that it was not my goodness that got me there. It was all him and none of me.

01:18:23

And so those kinds of things are important for us to remember as we engage in these kinds of conversations. Amen.

01:18:29

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who has said, who asks, have you ever had your life threatened because of your stances against the justice warrior,

01:18:47

I'm sorry, the social justice warrior movement, critical race theory, or anything under that umbrella because of the fact that in the media, you and Darrell are rare voices from the black community.

01:19:01

Yeah. Well, I appreciate the question, so thanks so much for that. I try not to talk much about the kinds of threats that we get, the kinds of, you know, folks who say things about us, only because I recognize two things.

01:19:16

One, that they're minor compared to what others have dealt with, those who maybe fought for civil rights or some other thing, and what they endured as a result of standing on truth that they believe to hold dear.

01:19:31

Mine is mainly keyboard warriors, right? These guys who get on the internet and want to engage us or send us hateful emails or look through my personal data and information and post that somewhere in an effort to embarrass me in some kind of way, shape, or form.

01:19:50

So those kinds of things do happen, they happen often, but again, Darrell and I have been party to those kinds of things for such a long time, long before social justice was an issue, that we just, those kinds of things don't really bother us and I don't get concerned.

01:20:06

The thing that I'm concerned with is, am I standing on the truth of the word? Am I rightly dividing scripture?

01:20:13

Am I saying things in a way that would honor God as an ambassador of the cross? Well, thank you,

01:20:19

Susan, Margaret. You've also won a free copy of Why Are You Afraid? So please make sure you give us your full mailing address in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania.

01:20:31

We have CJ from Lyndon Hearst, Long Island, New York, who says,

01:20:36

What do you think the attraction to critical race theory and all of the heresies affiliated with it are to reformed people and churches?

01:20:49

That is utterly amazing to me and I can't figure it out. Yeah. I appreciate the question and it is something.

01:20:58

I mean, while I'm in no way able to examine the heart of every person and understand their motivation, in a general sense, you think about the issue of justice.

01:21:10

I think one of the things that progressives and leftists are so good at is that they're able to capture language and then leverage it to push forward a cause,

01:21:22

Black Lives Matter. Well, on its face, those words put together in that framework seem innocuous.

01:21:30

Yeah, sure, Black Lives Matter. It isn't until you begin to peel back the layers of what that means, of the

01:21:37

Marxist origins, of the desire of the folks who put together the movement, that their desire to really destroy the nuclear family, that you begin to see all the ideology is flawed and here's why, but they've leveraged language in such a way that it's difficult to say,

01:21:55

Well, I don't agree with that. If you don't, you've got to have a backbone and have an explanation, right?

01:22:00

Yeah, because Black Lives Matter in so much as, or only in regard to the fact that all of us as human beings, as image bearers of God, matter.

01:22:08

Critical race theory, social justice, who's not for justice? Everyone wants to be for justice, and so it feels good.

01:22:17

It feels right. There's a sense of self -righteousness that aligns itself back by a historic narrative of oppression and racism and those kinds of things.

01:22:27

The history can't be denied, right? So it's with that that they leverage based upon, again, we don't even have time to explain the experiment of education in our country that has lent itself to these leftist ideas.

01:22:44

But those kinds of things, the proper language, the fact that everyone's for justice, you put the idea of social justice attached to it, then the thought is,

01:22:56

Yeah, I'd be for that. Why not? The pragmatic approach that we've taken in every area of church, of worship and the like, that's problematic.

01:23:07

The sense of mentalism that has invaded our church system, Daryl and I have talked at great length about all of those pieces of the puzzle lend themselves to seeing even solidly reformed people adopt the political narrative that's out there, that blacks are somehow, it's the highest form of white supremacy, the idea that blacks are a victim of a system.

01:23:34

I want to shake those who believe that or hold to that, especially in reformed circles and say, Well, don't they believe in a

01:23:40

God who's able to overcome? Where do we come up with the idea that the only one that can save them is our sensitive white people?

01:23:48

How did that come to be the case, right? Yeah, remember the white man's burden? Right, right, yes.

01:23:54

So, but going back to specifically, I'm reformed and I don't know if it's because I'm remaining too isolated in the reformed orbit, but nearly all of the non -secular activists in the limelight who are pushing a social justice and critical race theory agenda are reformed, or at least by profession.

01:24:24

And there may be many, many Armenians also involved in it, but it is strange because the major tenets of the reformed faith would seem to militate against these things, these unique heretical concepts of critical race theory in the social justice warrior movement.

01:24:44

Yeah, well, I go back to something that I've heard said many times, and I think rightly so by men like John MacArthur, who in his critique of the

01:24:56

Young, Restless, and Reformed movement said that they were only reformed insofar as they had adopted a

01:25:01

Calvinistic idea about theology. The reform really had not taken root to the degree that they were truly reformed in every aspect of theology, of theology property.

01:25:15

They take bits and pieces and put some things together. I'd argue that a lot of folks kind of jumped on a bandwagon that was moving at the time, and now this idea around social justice is just the next bandwagon to jump on that they see advantage in and they've moved on to.

01:25:34

That's kind of how I see these kinds of things. When you go back and critique some of those folks who are loud proponents advocating for social justice today, there were some cracks in the arm that we could go back and take a closer look at that would give us some telltale signs of what was to come.

01:25:55

You know, I know you're not a mind reader, but I can only wonder how much of this is, especially when you're considering Reformed individuals and churches buying into this concept.

01:26:09

It's Reformed entities borrowing from the

01:26:16

Arminian concept of luring people into their numbers and appeasing the crowds around them by really imitating those things of the world that at least right now the world seems to delight in.

01:26:41

And that is a non -Reformed missiology. It's a non -Reformed understanding of how

01:26:49

God saves sinners to appeal to the desires and likes and tastes and lusts of the lost society around us in order to win them to Christ.

01:27:04

That's not how the Bible explains how these things happen. That's why throughout the centuries of Christianity there have always been martyrs.

01:27:14

Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. I totally agree with you with regard to that.

01:27:20

I think there's another thing at work as well, though. It really appeals, the idea that perhaps you, let me say this, perhaps someone who holds to the idea of CRT, especially if they're white, that they're the ones who get it, that they're the ones who are enlightened, that they're the ones who have this knowledge about history and about culture and society and how we need to view people, particularly black people, in this current cultural environment that we find ourselves in.

01:27:54

So there's a sense of pride about that. There's kind of this intellectualism about knowing that story, that narrative that begins to be a part of adopting this particular worldview.

01:28:06

And then to add to it the sense of self -righteousness. This is no different than what we would see in Scripture from the

01:28:13

Pharisees. The idea that, you know what, they wouldn't say it this way, that the work of Christ was insufficient.

01:28:21

No one would say that. But at the end of the day they're treating issues of race and ethnicity in that same light when they believe that people need to be involved in anti -racism for the rest of their lives.

01:28:33

Those kinds of things are works -based righteousness, and they're arbitrary and never -ending, and all of it just to feel better about who you are, about what you know, and about being benevolent to those that you see as unable to achieve what you've achieved.

01:28:56

We have a listener, Joseph in south -central Pennsylvania, who wants to know are there any new projects that you and Daryl are involved in, or perhaps even

01:29:08

Josh Bice, that you have not yet announced today?

01:29:15

Oh, wow. Yeah, there are tons of them. I appreciate the question. Thanks so much for asking and for the opportunity to share that.

01:29:23

Right now, in fact, I was just connected with Josh. We were working with a team.

01:29:30

We're trying to put the finishing touches on a studio there on the campus there at G3.

01:29:37

We'll have a video recording studio where we'll be able to produce all kinds of podcasts, video, teaching tools and resources.

01:29:47

There's going to be a lot of stuff. The exciting thing for Daryl and me is, again, with our partnership with G3, that studio will be co -branded, meaning it will be a

01:29:57

G3 studio, but it will also be a Just Thinking studio. And we are intending to take what's been incredibly successful by way of an audio podcast.

01:30:07

We're about to transform into a video format for those who would appreciate seeing

01:30:14

Daryl and I interact on a regular basis to see that interaction live.

01:30:20

So they'll get a chance to witness that, and we've got a number of different things in the works with regard to that.

01:30:26

So that's probably one of the biggest projects that we have going on right now. Daryl and I are working on our second book that will be published under Founders Press, and we're excited about that,

01:30:40

Just Thinking About Ethnicity. Yeah, that book is in the works, and we're quickly and fast and fiercely trying to put that together.

01:30:51

I don't have a date for that drop yet, but just be on the lookout for announcements as they come in.

01:30:57

We'll be pushing that forward as well. So we've got a few things in the works. Well, since you mentioned Founders, tomorrow my guest for the first hour is

01:31:05

Tom Askell. Oh, that's great. He's the president of Founders Ministries, and we're going to be discussing his candidacy for president of the

01:31:13

Southern Baptist Convention, something that's very controversial. It seems to have divided

01:31:18

Reformed Christians on whether someone should even remain within the

01:31:24

Southern Baptist Convention and those who choose to remain as a light for truth. So it's one of those issues where since we are on Earth and none of us have all truth, none of us are inerrant, we're always going to be bumping heads or disagreeing with our brethren over things as long as we're on this

01:31:47

Earth. But I'm looking forward to the interview. I've known Tom for many years, many decades, and I'm looking forward to having him on again.

01:31:56

Well, Tom is a dear, dear brother. We absolutely love him. It's been a joy to work with him with Founders Press.

01:32:04

As just a brother in Christ, a co -belligerent for the cause and sake of Christ, while the church that I'm at at Praiseville, we're no longer a part of the

01:32:15

Southern Baptist Convention, we do wish Tom all the best in what he's doing.

01:32:20

Excited to see his candidacy and hopeful about what will take place in the days to come. Let's see.

01:32:28

By the way, I just want to make sure that all of our more recent questioners know that you have won also a free copy of Why Are You Afraid?

01:32:37

by Daryl Harrison and Virgil Walker. We have a question from Ronald in eastern

01:32:46

Suffolk County, and the question is, do you think that the tearing down of monuments is an enormous deal that we as Christians should be extremely concerned about, or is it one of those things that is of far less importance that is going on in this battle for truth in our nation?

01:33:10

Yeah. Well, I so appreciate the question. To begin with, man, the tearing down of monuments is illegal.

01:33:20

We can start there. So those who engage in that kind of behavior should face the full weight and breadth and depth of the law.

01:33:31

The reality is, unfortunately, the current state of jurisprudence of even law enforcement, they're more fearful to put anyone behind bars or charge anyone with that kind of vandalism.

01:33:45

With regard to believers in Christ, I think we stand for truth. We say what we need to say about the idea that lawlessness,

01:33:55

Scripture says lawlessness, is sin. And so when we know that and see that, we call what we see as it is and challenge those who are engaged in that behavior to repent, to repent, absolutely.

01:34:10

You know, and those actions are, the vast majority of time, in fact, probably every time they're occurring, they are really one of the key sins involved in what they're doing.

01:34:26

In addition to what you just mentioned, they're breaking the law by defiling private property or government property.

01:34:34

But they're also, most of the time, if not all the time, involved in heinous slander against the individual who's being honored by the monument.

01:34:46

They're distorting the sins involved in that individual that are publicly known anyway, and sometimes imputing sins to them that they didn't even commit at all.

01:34:58

And you could only imagine if we were to go in the graveyards where some of these people who are destroying monuments, where their parents, their grandparents, or other loved ones are buried, can you imagine if we were to go in those graveyards?

01:35:15

And because we know about some sins of their family members, we're going to take a sledgehammer to the tombstones, the gravestones of these people.

01:35:24

I mean, there's no difference at all. No, not at all. I mean, it's a backwards look.

01:35:31

I mean, it's as if folks believe that someone is without sin.

01:35:37

In my mind, I keep thinking of the story where Christ makes the woman found in adultery, caught in adultery.

01:35:45

And again, I know from a biblical standpoint, there's questions about the nature of the story, where it came from, and all of that.

01:35:52

And you need to have James White come on and talk to you about that with regard to the variations of text, textual variants.

01:36:03

But the principle is still there, the idea that those who are without sin are able at their end to cast the first stone.

01:36:13

Those kinds of things we need to think about. It goes back to our conversation earlier about total depravity.

01:36:20

If you understand your own sinfulness, you're not quick to make judgments about the sins of others.

01:36:28

And when we have those kinds of lines of demarcation, that clarity of thought, going and desecrating a monument for the purpose of what, it accomplishes what at the end of the day?

01:36:40

All it exposes is your own sinfulness, your own lawlessness, and your own need for repentance.

01:36:47

That's really what it exposes at the end of the day. Yeah, and these people have to really look at their own family tree, because it is doubtful that most of their parents or grandparents, and especially their great -great -grandparents, would have ever shared their views of race and gender.

01:37:07

And therefore, would they want their own relatives, if they were alive, to be terrorized and tormented and perhaps even physically harmed?

01:37:17

Maybe some of them would, but a lot of this is just nothing more than self -righteousness and a delusion of self -importance, and thinking more highly of oneself than one ought.

01:37:34

Absolutely. But we have to go to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks. If you have a question for Virgil, please send it in pretty quickly, because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:37:44

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:37:50

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Virgil Walker after these messages.

01:38:11

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. Excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

01:38:20

for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

01:38:27

Thursday, September 15th, through Saturday, September 17th. And I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

01:38:38

Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

01:38:45

and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

01:38:53

So join me and Chris Arnson September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C. for the

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:47:38

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

01:47:45

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

01:47:54

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

01:48:01

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

01:48:10

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:48:30

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

01:48:38

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

01:48:46

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations, theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups.

01:48:57

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

01:49:04

God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as locally.

01:49:11

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

01:49:23

Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

01:49:30

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:49:37

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:49:45

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

01:49:51

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:49:58

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402.

01:50:05

Or visit LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Welcome back. This is our final segment today with Virgil Walker.

01:50:13

And I loved every minute of the discussion. I'm looking forward to what we have left on the program.

01:50:20

We're discussing the new laws of leftist protesters viewed through biblical lenses. If you have a question, send it in immediately because we're almost out of time.

01:50:28

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:50:34

We have an anonymous listener who says that I am in the middle of disputes with people on both sides of the spectrum who are my brothers in Christ who actually agree with me theologically.

01:50:48

There are those on one side of me that are almost acting as if we should be like the

01:50:54

Amish and retreat from all political involvement and interaction. And we have those on the other side who seem to make politics too much a part of the gospel.

01:51:06

I was wondering where you and Darrell are on this equation. And I know that there are many facets on the spectrum involving the church and politics, but I'm just curious how you would counsel me to behave in the midst of being on two battlefields.

01:51:23

Yeah, and that's a great question. Thanks so much for the question, Anonymous. I would encourage you.

01:51:30

There's an episode that we did called The Doctrine of Elections, The Doctrine of Elections.

01:51:36

It's kind of a play on the idea of the doctrines of grace, but we dealt with election cycles and that elections, for the most part, are all about worldview, right?

01:51:46

Where we land, what happens in the voting booth is really the byproduct, the fruit of a particular worldview.

01:51:55

And so while during, you'll be happy to know, given your situation, that during our, I think it's a two -and -a -half -hour episode, we didn't bring up a political party nor a politician.

01:52:09

All of it was about biblical worldview and where we should stand. I think there are two ditches that people can fall into, and the questioner landed on those.

01:52:20

One is the idea that government is the savior, right, so that we have a responsibility to save America.

01:52:28

We have a responsibility to see others saved, right, and that the only way for that to take place is through some form of government intervention to the point that we vote every four years and are excited if our candidate wins and devastated if our candidate loses.

01:52:45

The reality is God is still on the throne regardless of the candidate that is actually in office, and we have to be mindful of that.

01:52:51

The other side of the ditch that one can fall into is the idea that we duck our head in the sand.

01:52:58

We absolutely do nothing. We stay with our four no more. We attend church and quietly maintain a very quiet existence.

01:53:07

And so I don't think we do that either. I think there's, in a democratic republic like the one we have, we have a responsibility to be engaged in the areas of politics that call for our engagement, understand what's happening in the world around us, be engaged in the bills that are happening now with regard to the issue of abortion.

01:53:32

It's going to come to your front doorstep. Rather than a federal issue, if Roe v. Wade is actually struck down, this will be a backyard issue.

01:53:41

This will now be an issue that goes to the states, and you'll need to advocate for life, right?

01:53:47

Because biblically speaking, that's what we indeed are about and for. So I think there's a balance that can be struck.

01:53:54

I don't know the particulars about the Friends and where they're siding on those two issues. I do think there are some ditches.

01:54:00

I think the ditch where people are seeing government as the solution needs to be informed by the

01:54:08

Bible, by a biblical worldview, bringing the Gospel into conflict with culture in those areas where there's opportunity.

01:54:18

Well, Darrell, I'd like you to have several minutes to really summarize what you most want to have etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before we go off the air.

01:54:28

Oh, brother, the most important thing, Paul, as he's writing the

01:54:33

Church at Corinth, says that there's one thing of greatest importance, and that is the life, the death, the burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, that God came in the form of a human being, that he lived a perfect life, died a death he did not deserve as a result of sin that was in the world, and he sacrificed his life as a ransom for ours, that if we would but repent of our sin and place our full faith in Jesus Christ, we would indeed experience and have eternal life when what we actually deserve is separation from God and hell forever for our sins against the

01:55:16

Holy God. But in his kindness, in his goodness, in his mercy, he sends his Son as a sacrifice. He, who, again, lives that perfect life, dies the death that we rightly deserve as prisoners, right, as enemies of God, that we would but repent of our sin, place our faith in him, we would indeed have eternal life.

01:55:37

My hope would be anyone who had the opportunity to listen today, if they have not already made a decision to follow

01:55:44

Christ, that given the gift that is afforded you even in this moment, today is the day of salvation, that you would repent, place your full faith in Jesus Christ.

01:55:54

Amen. And I have seen you and Darrell speak at several churches outside of the

01:56:03

G3 conferences. How available are you, either both together or individually, to be invited to a church, to a school, to a civic organization to speak?

01:56:16

Yeah, we're open to that always, and we love the opportunity to come and really unpack issues around social justice and CRT.

01:56:25

But also, just remember, we are expositors and theologians, and so we love just cracking open

01:56:30

Scripture and diving into the truths of the Word of God as well. And so, yeah, we're more than happy to do that, open to do that.

01:56:37

You can reach out to me and or Darrell via any social media outlet, Twitter, Facebook, IG, or you can email me at vwalker, at g3min .org,

01:56:50

vwalker, at g3min .org. I'm happy to take those, and we'll consider each of those as they come through.

01:56:59

And tell Darrell that he's always welcome to my home. I'd like to serve him a nice, delicious soul food meal.

01:57:09

I would let him know you said that. I can't understand his disdain, because there's a lot of elements that are under that category, including fried chicken and catfish.

01:57:20

I mean, how could you hate those things? I'm with you on this one,

01:57:26

Chris. I'm with you on this one. Well, I also want to remind everybody that if you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, and if you're a man, that this is a men's only event, well, you are invited to the next

01:57:43

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon for Men in Ministry Leadership Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m.

01:57:52

to 2 p .m. at the Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring, for the very first time as my keynote speaker at my pastor's luncheons,

01:58:02

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. I've had James involved in many events and debates that I've organized, but he has never yet, until now, been my pastor's luncheon speaker.

01:58:15

So I am so thrilled about that. That's going to be great. And also, every man that goes there leaves with a heavy sack of free, brand -new books, personally selected by me, donated by major publishers in both the

01:58:31

United States and the United Kingdom. And everything is free of charge, and nothing is sold there. There's no hidden agenda, no ulterior motive.

01:58:40

It's all because my blessed, precious late wife, Julie, back in the 1990s, knowing that I worked in the radio industry and had so many friends that are pastors, she wanted me to treat the pastors to an annual lunch, where they were served food and able to have fun and fellowship and hear a great speaker and receive free books.

01:59:06

And it's all because of my sweet late wife that I'm doing this, and it's now in her honor and memory and in tribute to her, since she has gone home to be with the

01:59:16

Lord over 12 years ago. And so I continue this going, and I hope that you can join us

01:59:24

Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

01:59:31

Just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line.

01:59:37

Thank you so much, Virgil Walker, for doing such an extraordinary job today, as I knew you would.

01:59:43

I want to thank everybody. Oh, thanks for having me. And I want to thank everybody for listening, especially those who took the time to write questions.

01:59:49

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater