Is Jesus polyamorous? | Rapp Report Weekly 0037 | Striving for Eternity

A Warning About Adult Topics and the Program’s Purpose

All right. We are giving a warning before today's episode. We are dealing with some more adult-like topics. We will not be getting into details that are inappropriate. We'll keep it clean, but we do not think this is the best episode for young ones at home because mom and dad, if you're listening with the children, you're going to have to define some terminology that you just may not be ready to do.

So my suggestion, if you have young ones at home, listen to this first on your own before you include them because this one is going to be dealing with some difficult issues, as we will see.

Welcome to The Wrap Report with Andrew Rapoport, where we provide biblical interpretations and applications. This is a ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

All right. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome. This is The Wrap Report. I am Andrew Rapoport, the host, and I have with me again this week, my buddy, Pastor Jim Osmond from Kootenai Community Church out in Idaho.

And so we're going to deal with some difficult issues. There have been some troubling, and when I say troubling, I mean, disturbingly so, things in the media. And it's in the realm of Christianity that I have seen this week, we have a video we're going to deal with.

Several people emailed me, messaged me, asked for a response because there is a video going out and it is all over the place, unfortunately. And the title of the video is that Jesus is polyamorous. And so we are going to deal with that.

We're going to play it. We're going to chop it up and show the logical fallacies in that video and the hermeneutical problems with it. You know, I have reached out to them, I'll say up front, I've reached out to them and maybe they'll come on.

I doubt it, but maybe they'll come on and take the challenge to actually defend what they say. But I want to deal with three things that we have, or I have seen this week alone in the media. The first thing, I've seen two different podcasts.

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name that they were coming up with for this, but there is a movement to accept pornography within Christianity. I forget the title that they're giving for it, but I jokingly, let me give you some backdrop, jokingly, back when the movie Noah came out, there was some young rushless and reformed folks who wrote blog articles saying how wonderfully, cinematically wonderful Noah was.

I went to the library because, yeah, I'm Jewish. I'm not paying for that garbage. Yeah. That's not happening. So I went to the library. I got it from there for free and watched it. My wife and I were being generous.

I mean, we were trying to find how many things in that movie we could get that were accurate to Scripture. And I mean, when I say generous, I mean, we were talking like it was a massive ship. They got the names right of the people.

I mean, things like that. We could only, I mean, when you're looking at things, a global flood, right? Those are three of the six things that they got right. And we were looking for things they got right.

And Christians were saying how wonderful this movie was. It was so somatically done, like it was so great. And I was blown away that Christians would be promoting this, especially within the reformed community.

And I stated back then that there will be a time that these same people that want to take dominion over the movies and dominion over this and dominion over that, at some point, you're going to see them argue that they will take dominion over pornography.

And I assumed that at some point, someone would say pornography will be okay as long as it is a husband and wife watching another husband and wife. As long as a husband and wife, it wasn't going to be sinful.

Well, that's actually what we see going on right now. What we see, unfortunately, within Christianity is a move. I forget the name for it, but there is a move to justify pornography with married couples.

It is already started. There is an argument being made that couples can video themselves so that they can watch themselves and then share it with other married couples. If that wasn't bad enough, we have the video that we'll deal with later on Jesus being polyamorous.

But I'm going to do this a little different than we typically do because I want to interact with Jim on these three different topics. So first, I want to talk about this first one. Jim, as a pastor, you well know the issue that pornography has within the church.

The thought of people that are trying to justify something like pornography.

The Damage Pornography Does to Marriage and Purity

As a pastor, as a counselor, your concerns. I'm concerned. You got me unmuted there, Andrew? Yeah. My concern, obviously, is with the long-term effects of pornography, not just that it's a form of sexual immorality.

It's a form of sexual impurity. It ends up corrupting the imagery of Christ and his church. It ends up setting up false expectations. Oftentimes, I have counseled young couples and people. One of the things that I find is that it's very difficult to find young men, particularly, who have not had some exposure to pornography already.

Then they come into a marriage relationship and their expectations, I think, are perverse. They're sensationalized. They're warped. That movement, that expectation ends up, I think, setting couples up for disappointment in their marriage and in their intimacy as a married couple.

That's one of the disastrous consequences of pornography. Then it has, of course, an addicting quality. It has a way of stifling and squelching the soul of the person who is involved in that pornography, who gives into that temptation and cannot get victory over it.

I've counseled quite a few young men who just have needed to be encouraged and shown, reminded of the gospel and reminded of the power that they have in Christ to not have to be in bondage to that sin.

Yeah. One of the things that I thought was very interesting was we were doing at a conference and dealing with some of those topics. One guy brought out the fact that there's a big tie between video games and pornography.

I thought that interesting and odd. I didn't actually expect to hear that. What was the draw between both is the idea of control. I counseled a couple where the husband actually preferred his pornography over his wife, which seemed odd to me.

It hit me when this brother said the issue is it's a control issue. The pornography gave him a control. He could fantasize whatever he wanted. There's an aspect to that where it is the control factor that people feel over the images they see or what they are thinking about.

That ends up playing into the relationship. One of the problems I think it creates in the relationship is the fact that you have so many people who are looking to try to control their spouse. It brings a whole bunch of struggle into the marriage relationship because you have someone trying to control rather than be submissive to one another.

They're trying to control one another and not deal with wisdom. In the man, he's supposed to deal with his wife in wisdom. He's supposed to love his wife, but if he's trying to control her, he's not trying to love her.

The other thing that I was working on a sermon about pornography. It was supposed to be this interview of a woman who, 21 years old, she killed herself. She got into that industry to pay for college. It was amazing how what they ended up doing this interview where they were talking about her life, and I was going to use some of that for the sermon.

This video I saw actually played the videos of her doing her acts that she was doing. The amazing thing is how quick that immediately brought me back to when I was in college and high school and saw that stuff.

All of a sudden, it doesn't take much to reawaken old images that you saw. It is something that I think becomes very difficult to remove and to have a victory over because it's so prevalent. Now, seeing Christians that are justifying it and saying, oh, this is okay as long as it's within a marriage, as long as we're watching people that are married, I think it's very dangerous.

I think that this is going to be something that will devastate many, many Christians,.

Both men and women. I've got a friend here that you met him while he was here, but he's an older saint. He's been in the Lord for probably 40 years now. He got saved later in life. He got saved out of a horrible background and a horrible past.

He says even now, it's 40 years of being in the Lord that he still has images that will pop into his brain, things that will pop into his head that are seared into there from years ago, decades ago, and they never go away.

He just longs for that day of being in eternity and having all of that gone, all of that removed, the temptation there, the images that pop in. You can't control that, but the male brain is visual, and so when you put those images in front of the male brain, it etches them in there, and they're remembered, and you can't get rid of them.

You'll grow to a point of maturity in.

The Lord where you wish you could. Yeah, I always think back, and this is what kind of scares me when I think about John MacArthur has said that he was, I think it was in a hospital room of one of the people that attended his church.

This guy, I'm thinking 70s, 80s, 90s, I forget, but older man. I almost want to say he was in his 90s and talked about a 70-year struggle with pornography. That, it blows me away that it could be that gripping on individuals, and we're also seeing this for women as well.

I do think it's very dangerous for Christians to try to justify something like this and then say, hey, as long as it's within marriage because I'm sorry, but what many people are going to do is take those things that they're fantasizing about and try to force their spouses into doing those things often against their wishes, and that I think is very, well, unbiblical, right?

So, if you look at Ephesians 5, and we know this passage because it talks about the roles of husbands and wives, okay? So, the wife is to submit to the husband, okay? Husbands are to love your wife, and this is what it says, and there's an interesting thing with this that I think plays into this.

Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water of the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she might be holy and without blemish.

In the same way, husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Now, one of the things that I think here that you see is that Ephesians 5 is saying that husbands are to keep their wives pure.

You can't do that if you're engaging in this sort of activity, if you're trying to force your spouse to live out your fantasies, especially if it's against their wishes or their will, against their conscience, and that's what I think is going to happen.

I mean, I've counseled enough people that I know this happens in marriage, especially for guys who are watching this stuff, are trying to force their wives to do things against their wishes, and that ends up being not only devastating to marriage, but it is against scripture.

It is against what God has.

Established marriage for. Yeah, the role of the man in the marriage relationship is to serve his wife in that way, and you cannot serve your wife if you're forcing her to do things that are inappropriate, and if you are polluting her mind and polluting her purity just to get a thrill for yourself or a pleasure for yourself or to in some way get her to do something for you,.

That is the opposite of what a loving servant leader would do. All right, so I want to deal with another topic after this commercial. There is a recent article, and I'm actually thinking of doing a segment called Christian News Segment, just grabbing different articles from the Christian News Network, friends of mine who run that news agency, but a lot of good articles over there.

If you want to check out some Christian News Network, the real CNN is what I call it, but anyway, there is an article we're going to deal with two women, two lesbians who are filing a complaint against a baker in Bakersfield, California, and it is very interesting what we end up seeing in this article, so that will be right after this break.

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The Bakery Complaint and Coerced Celebration of Sin

All right, so the title of this article is Lesbians File Complaint Against Baker for not making wedding cake wore hidden microphones. That's right, so here's basically what happened. You have these two women who were going around shopping, they were wearing hidden microphones recording as they went to several different bakeries.

Now, as they stated in the court records, it says, quote, although they wanted only a simple wedding cake, the couple's quest did not proceed as smoothly as their search for a venue. They visited several local bakeries and tasted cakes, but had been unsuccessful in their search.

When Eileen super dispensely drove past a bakery called Tasty's, unquote. And so what ends up going on is they state that they went in there and here's the woman who owns this Tasty's bakery, basically had even, you know, explained that her Christian convictions would not allow her to make a same-sex wedding cake for this couple.

She offered, not only did she give them some samples of her cakes, but she offered to call other bakeries that could help. Now, here's some details of this that I find very interesting. First off, they were wearing hidden microphones.

This clearly shows that this was planned. This was not something that they just happened to come upon. No, this was a purposeful thing. They're looking to try to get Christian bakers so that they could sue.

Now, why do I say that? Well, a couple of reasons. One, they say that they were so emotionally distraught over this, and yet within 30 minutes of leaving that place, they got to social media and within 30 minutes, the Millers who own it started getting death threats, emails containing images of people engaging in depraved sexual acts.

The nukes crews were there shortly afterwards, almost as if it was planned, as if it was timed, as soon as they had the place where everyone's supposed to go after. Now, what makes me suspicious of these two women?

Well, they were looking for a place to have a wedding cake in August of 2017, when the two women had already been married in December of 2016. That's right. The wedding already occurred. So, I look at this and see, you can look at was it Masterpiece Cakes, the guy in Arizona who went up to the Supreme Court, and in that Supreme Court ruling, you end up seeing that he ended up defending his right.

Now, defense that he did, and we have a previous podcast, I'll try to link that in the show notes, where we had a lawyer on here discussing that specific case. Why was that important? Because what we saw in that specific case was that case was one that they argued very narrowly for issuing the fact that the Arizona court system had mishandled this because they were attacking the individual.

They didn't bring it up as an issue of religious belief. And so, because of that, what they're trying to do, I think here, and they're going after that same baker, by the way, he is now being charged again.

He had, I think, been requesting cakes until they could finally get someone that could get a lawsuit. He was being careful in how he answered. What ended up happening in this case and the other case, you have people that are looking for a lawsuit.

They basically want to say that Christians don't have the right to believe what they want to believe. This is not intolerance, folks. This is anything but intolerance. This is a group of people that demand intolerance, bullying Christians to believe what they want them to believe.

This is where these people who used to say they were in a closet and now they have coming out parties and a day to celebrate their coming out. And now what they want to do is tell Christians, you're not allowed to have your opinion.

You have to be in the closet or what they would call the church. You're only allowed to have your views within your church. Now, brothers and sisters, those of you who are Christians, in the 80s, when the argument was, hey, these people should be allowed to do what they want in their own homes.

It's their home. They should be allowed to do what they want in their own home. And as it was argued back then, they should be allowed to do what they want in their own bedrooms. And the argument that was made back then is it won't stay in their bedrooms.

If it stayed in the bedrooms, fine. But the issue is that it won't stay in the bedrooms. This is the issue. And as we see today, it hasn't stayed in the bedrooms. It has come out of the bedrooms and now being forced upon all of us to where now what we see is the bullying tactic that if you have the nerve to be a Christian and stand on Christian convictions, you have to be put out of business.

You have to receive death threats. You have to be bullied into promoting an agenda. This is something that we see time and time again where Christians are being victimized because of the fact that they believe something that has been historically believed for generations, for thousands of years.

And suddenly, somehow, they're wrong. Suddenly, somehow, this is a bad behavior for Christians to have their own beliefs. You're going to say you're tolerant, then you should be willing to be actually tolerant, accepting other people's views.

When you look at this case with Miller, their name was Kathy Miller. If I get it correctly, I'm trying to look through the article. But what she ended up doing was to argue that I'll find you someone that could do this for you.

She actually, and for WABC, she said, we're Christians. We love everyone. God made everyone. It doesn't matter the color or whatever. Everyone is God's creation and I love everyone. That's sounding pretty tolerant, by the way, but that wasn't enough.

It's not enough to tolerate. These two women didn't want tolerance. They wanted this Christian woman to celebrate their lifestyle. Let me just ask the question to anyone who practices homosexuality listening.

Would you like it if people used the court system or the government to force you to go to church? Think about that because that is what you are arguing for when you support women like these women who are doing this.

If you're supporting people that are going after Christians because you have a differing view and forcing your beliefs on them, then you should not be critical if they were to try to use the government to force you to attend church.

I wouldn't suggest that we should force people to attend church. I don't support that because church is for believers. But the thing is, is that there is not a case of discrimination that was seen in here and yet they're trying to make it one because they're saying, no, you have to use your arts for everybody.

Use your talents. Use your business against your own beliefs. Flip that around. If I was as a Christian to go into a bakery of people that practice homosexuality and demand that they promote or they put a cake out that says, sanctity of marriage, homosexuality is a sin, Romans chapter one, and they say, I'm not going to bake that.

Would they then say, hey, we should be threatened? Should our lives be threatened? Should we have to be courts? Because that's just flipping the thing. If the argument doesn't work both ways, then it's not really a valid argument in the sense that they try to argue from atheistic worldviews where they want to remove God.

We're going to deal with in a bit those that want to try to argue this from a position of saying they're Christian. But Jim, the thing that I see so problematic here with this sort of stuff is the fact that you see people who are trying to force their beliefs onto Christians.

Now, I know that there is a reporter who went into 13 different Muslim bakeries and he was actually one of them chased out. He was chased out with a broom. Nothing. No one argued. No one thought there was anything wrong there.

But if they're not going to go after the Muslim. No, no, they don't. They know they can get away with going after Christians. And to go back to your, to give you some other illustrations, how would you feel?

Should we be in our culture, our society, making a black person bake a cake for a white supremacist organization that says, God hates black people on it. Would we make the black person bake the cake for that?

Or is the black person free in a free society to refuse to do business with whomever he wants to for whatever reason he wants to? I'm perfectly fine with any businessman being willing to refuse to do business, to refuse to sell a product to any white American male whose last name rhymes with floss.

And that would be me. If he wants to discriminate against me on that basis, I'm happy. He has a freedom to do that for any reason. I think everybody who owns a business, as long as you're not government funded, you're not government run, you should be free to discriminate or refuse to do business with anybody you want.

That's the freedom of association. And everybody should have the freedom to do that. But what they want, what the homosexual activists want is that freedom to go one way. They don't want to, as you said, they don't want to just be recognized.

They want you to celebrate it and they're going to make you care. And they're going to, I think they're going to come after, they've already admitted that they're coming after churches and pastors, and they're going to try and make, uh, they're going to try and go after some big targets, probably the John MacArthur's and, uh, the Steve Lawson's and the guys like that out there with, with big churches that are big targets.

They're going to start coming after them to try and force them to do a gay marriage ceremony in the church building. And if they don't get what they want, they're going to do the same thing that they've done with Christian bakers and Christian force.

They're going to say that's bigotry, it's hatred, it's intolerance. And really what they, they're not wanting just toleration. They're wanting celebration. They're not content. If you can just say, look, we disagree with each other.

And so we will tolerate one another. We'll live alongside each other and we can each believe what we want to believe and try to do the best to convince the other that our point of view is right. But we show tolerance and deference to one another, but I don't have to agree with you, but they've redefined tolerance to be agreement.

If you don't agree with me, you're intolerant. And of course they would never buy that the other direction. When they think that we're wrong, they're just, they're right. And when we think that they're wrong, we're intolerant.

It's completely hypocritical and lopsided.

Correct. And, and that shows that this really isn't about tolerance. I mean, that's the ultimate proof right there.

It never has been. It never has been from the very beginning when they wanted to overturn, you know, first they came out and they said, look, we just want the same right as everybody else to get life insurance, to visit our loved ones in the hospital, to, to be the, have the power of attorney.

That's all we want. And we, everybody said, okay, well then, then you can have that. And then it was like, well, we don't, we want our lifestyle decriminalized. Okay. That's fine. We can decriminalize it.

Now we want gay marriage. It's not enough to have gay marriage. Now we want to force you to celebrate our lifestyle and to prove of our lifestyle. And here's what I think has happened. What they want to do is use the force of government to get that approval and that celebration that their conscience tells them that they cannot have because they're violating the law of God.

And because they cannot have God's approval. And they know that they're without excuse, their conscience bears witness that what they're doing is wrong. And they understand that they know that intuitively.

And because they cannot have God's approval. And they know that they want to get the approval of the next biggest, most powerful entity that they can. And that's the government. And so they want to get the government to approve of the lifestyle and then make everybody else affirm them and approve them because what they want is that acceptance that they know they cannot.

Get from an almighty, holy, righteous, and just God. Well, I think it's their hatred for God that brings all this on. And some of them, we're going to look at some that try to argue that they are Christian, that they are believing in God.

But the thing that I end up seeing in this, and the thing that's so disturbing to me with this is the fact that this is planned. This is not something that is just they play the victim as they victimize.

They say they're against bullying as they bully. This is concerning. And what really bothers me a lot is that there's so many Christians that are falling for it. They're being duped by this and thinking that this is something that is okay.

We should try to work with it. Look, I'm not going to try to work with them any more than I'm going to work with the murderer or the rapist or any other thing that God calls a sin. If I have a murderer who is on death row, am I going to try to reach out with them and try to lovingly share the gospel?

Absolutely, as I would the liar, the adulterer, and the person who practices homosexuality. We all sin, every one of us, and the gospel is the solution to this. And we share.

The gospel with them because we love them. Yeah. We genuinely love them, but they think that if you do not have acceptance that you're not being loving, that you're being bigoted, you hate them.

And yet they're not accepting of our view. That's the thing. They're not accepting of Christianity. I do not see this same type of thing going on with Islam or other false religions, but it is very clear that they're going after Christianity.

Darkness doesn't attack darkness. Darkness attacks the light. That's legit. That's right. Again, I'll put a link to the article, but you can check it out and read the details. But this isn't going to stop, folks.

We got to realize that this attack is coming and it's going to come stronger and harder and worse. And for Christians who think they can get along with this agenda, it's an anti-Christian agenda. How do you get along with that and then still be able to promote Christianity?

It's not going to happen. So, you have to face the reality that this is something that has to be dealt with in a biblical way with the gospel and what Scripture says. So, all right, before we get back from this break, I want to deal with this video that we mentioned, because this is one that is going to be important.

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When we witness to people, we need to present the truth, but it is very wise to know what they believe. And you will get Andrew Rappaport's book at whatdotheybelieve .com.

The Queer Theology Video and the Claim That Jesus Is Polyamorous

All right. So, let us deal with this. It's disturbing to even bring this up and discuss this, but we have to because this is being shared in, unfortunately, a lot of places. And so, because of that, this video that I'll give a link to, actually, I probably won't.

We'll play it and it'll be disturbing enough. It really will be. And the reality is what you end up seeing here is this is a video where you're going to see someone who wants to, they want to attack God.

Now, this is from a group called Queer Theology. This individual's name is Brian Murphy. He is trying to promote a website of, well, what he's claiming is queer theology. Now, he's going to talk about polyamory.

Okay. Now, this is basically the philosophy or a state of being romantically involved with more than one person at the same time. Okay. We think of polygamy. That's typically one man with several wives.

This is going to be where you can have multiple partners, any type of partner. Okay. I'm going to warn you before we play this, and both Jim and I will stop this at different times and unfortunately deal with what is being said.

We're going to stop it and deal with it. Jim will just raise his hand. I'll see that when he wants me to stop. So, just to be.

Clear, it's like a three-minute video, right? Correct. Yeah. So, why don't you play the whole thing so we can hear the whole argument, the whole context, and then we can dissect it. That way, we can't be accused of cutting and pasting and people can't just hear.

Well, I don't want to listen to any of it actually, but I don't want to listen to it once, but I think it would be helpful if people could hear the entire presentation, the entire context. It is just a three-minute argument.

Yeah. All right. So, let me share this, and we'll do as you said. I'm just going to say up front, this is disturbing for Christians, and I want you to realize that for any Christian, with what we've already said, you realize what this gentleman, Brian Murphy, is going to say is so disrespectful to Christians.

We're going to deal... I actually wanted to play this all the way through and have a dinging noise with a number popping up with every logical fallacy that I saw in here because it's filled with them, but we'll deal with some of them.

The reality though, what Brian Murphy ends up doing is so blasphemous, and look, Brian, if you want to come on here and defend your arguments, I'd be happy to deal with it. I don't think the scripture or any theology will support these arguments that are being made.

You have to twist scripture and twist the language and use illogic to make the argument. But if he wants to come on, I would gladly welcome it. I think that I would be more respectful to him than I think he is in this video to Christians, to genuine Christians who believe in Christ.

You're going to see that he has a low view of Christ and a high view of himself and his love. So, we'll play this whole thing in one shot, then we'll rewind it and clip it. Unfortunately, here it goes.

Jesus is polyamorous. Yeah, you heard me right. Jesus is polyamorous. We know this already though, even if we don't think about it or put it in those terms. If you're one of those Christians who believe in the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus, well, Jesus is having personal relationships with billions of other people too.

He's kind of a relationship slut, an empowered reclaimed sort of slut. Hey there, I'm Brian G. Murphy. I'm one of the co-founders of GreatTheology .com. I'm a Christian and I'm polyamorous. I'm also kind of a slut, the reclaimed empowering kind of slut, like Jesus.

Jesus' polyamory goes beyond this personal relationship idea though. It's deeper, biblical even. In Ephesians 5, Paul specifically uses the word marriage to describe Christ's relationship with us. Repeatedly, Paul reminds us that Jesus gave himself for us, us, the church, which Paul describes as the whole body of believers.

In this marriage, Jesus isn't married to one person. He's married to the entire body of believers. Jesus is in a pansexual, polyamorous relationship with us. And so of course Christians can be polyamorous.

That's a biblical model of relationship. We already recognize that God's love for us is the same as God's love for others and that each of us can have a unique transcendent relationship with the divine.

Our relationship with God can be a model for our romantic and sexual relationships as well. You know how you feel when something good happens to someone you care about? When your friend, child, neighbor, or coworker connects with the divine?

That's how I feel when my partners date or meet someone new or are just head over heels for someone else. How beautiful, how majestic that they get to have more love in their life and how exciting that someone else gets to experience the amazingness of my partner.

The word polyamory comes from poly and amorous. Many loves. We all already have many loves. The question then becomes how do you express that love? With whom? How do you do life? We want to help you sort through those questions.

Is polyamory for me? How do I share with my church community that I'm in a polyamorous relationship? How do I talk with my partner about wanting an open relationship? How do I integrate polyamory with my faith?

If you want to explore the intersections of polyamory and Christianity or you want some hands-on support in your own life and relationships, head on over to createtheology .com slash polyamory. We've got some resources up now and we'll be continuing to add them.

You can also sign up for updates to be in the loop as we add more. We see in Ephesians an understanding that marriage can be polyamorous, that Jesus is polyamorous with us, and so we know that it's possible.