April 21, 2022 Show with Chris MacDowell on “Christian Parents: Overlooked Aspects of Their Vital Roles”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 21st day of April 2022 and I'm thrilled to have back as a returning guest

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Christopher McDowell who is one of three pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York whose ads you hear several times a day in iron sharpens iron radio

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Today we are going to be addressing a very important subject Christian parents overlooked aspects of their vital roles and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back the iron sharpens iron radio pastor

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Christopher McDowell Thank you, of course, it's a pleasure to be here and for our listeners who are unfamiliar with Hope Reform Baptist Church I don't know how they could be since they hear your ads every day on my show

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But you might tell them something that's not contained in the ads. What our listeners know about that In order to be concise,

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I don't know if I can go beyond it, but we are We're reform Baptist Church, we were established back in 1996 we've rented facilities for Roughly 20 years a few years ago.

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We were finally able to purchase a building in Coram And so we have a lovely church building and fellowship hall.

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And so we've been now Established here in Coram for the last three years, but we're a 1689 confessional church.

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That's our statement of faith That's basically how we're identified is seeking to Maintain the doctrines that have been upheld for Hundreds of years, but actually going back thousands to the time of Christ when we seek to be

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Serious about the word being able to teach and make disciples and it's a place of great fellowship great unity and just a love for Each other and a love for the lost

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Yes, you definitely have a tight -knit congregation. I love visiting that church.

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It's a home away from home for me and I always feel very welcomed and relaxed and amongst people who

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I love and who love me back and And it's such an honor to have

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Hope Reformed Baptist Church as a primary advertiser on this program and I can never express to all of you

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The depth of my gratitude towards your financial sacrifices for me every month It's our pleasure.

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We're always happy to support a brother and especially with all the good work You do the ministry of iron sharpens iron and it was such a joy to see you and pastor

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Rich Jensen And pastor Bruce Bennett from Word of Truth Church in Medford Come all the way out from Long Island over five hours to my most recent iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon in Loisville, Pennsylvania and to see you guys there really made

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The the day even more of a phenomenal blessing to me. Oh Praise God.

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It was a blessing for us to well worth the drive I've been actually wanting to go to one of your luncheons for a couple of years

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And I was glad to be able to make it out there for the first time and I still don't know where to put all the books that you

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Pastors so we are we are much obliged. Oh my pleasure and next time

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I know that One of your pastors one of your fellow pastors

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Anthony Eugenio longtime friend of mine He has made a commitment unless God has other plans to be out at my next iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon with you on September 22nd when

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries is scheduled to be my next

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Iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon speaker. So I'm looking forward to that as well Yes, we're eagerly anticipating

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Can't wait till September Yeah, and let me know if you ever wind up rescheduling that conference with Gary DeMar that you folks have intended to Have and it was

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I believe kovat that prevented it, right? Yeah unfortunately

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Kovat hidden and messed up all the travel plans and and just even assembling was a

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Challenge so it made having a conference difficult But yeah, that was like in the that was in the early early days of Kovat when a lot of people didn't even know what it was

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Yeah, yeah, it's everyone for a loop so now the time has passed hopefully things will

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Get back to some, you know ability to to gather together for that conference.

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So we're still looking forward to it Well, if anybody wants to find out more about hope reform

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Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York go to hope reformed Li for Long Island net hope reformed li .net

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and We are speaking about something. That's a very important issue today

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And that is Christian parents overlooked aspect of their vital roles.

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Tell us when this subject of Christian parenting became such an enormous focus of yours something that really

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Gets your engines running and something that you got really actively involved in Guiding parents to Fulfill the roles that God has provided for them with their children

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Probably about 14 years ago For us my wife and I have been married married back in 99 so going on 23 years but we have four daughters and After after our youngest was born our two oldest were in public school and they got as far as first grade and second grade and The Lord really put it on our heart to the home school and That was a major turning point in our life or anyone who's ever talked to me any like the time

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I usually bring up homeschooling but part of the reason is It was a it was a catalyst for us just to have a major personal revival.

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We were you know, we were faithful attenders of church and Our desire was, you know, whatever the doors were open

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We wanted our our family to be there and the kids to be there You know, we we knew the dangers of a public school and you know evolution and I mean

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Things have gotten even much worse in the last 14 years as far as what they're trying to push now

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But you know, we were both public school graduates. We knew what was being taught. So we were concerned

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We were concerned about the education that they were receiving so we We decided to homeschool and kind of the weight of Responsibility of their education their their academic, you know education

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We couldn't blame it on the schools with the teachers if something happened, you know it didn't you know turn out being smart enough or knowing what they need to know and so we were scrambling and Looking for all these resources and support to help us, you know, teach our children

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And fortunately for us there was a lot of homeschool ministries out there that help parents talk about curriculum and and all the other aspects involved with Educating your children at home but as we learned about that The understanding of the weight of our responsibility with their spiritual education

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Really began to hit us and we saw it with renewed clarity I mean, we like I said, we always want to have our girls and in the church and part of the programs and doing all that But we recognize just how much it was our responsibility

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To be instilling in them the things that they needed to know about God and about his word and about living for him, so When that hit us again, it was a personal revival for us and it just changed everything about How we went about life we you know, we looked at everything with new eyes we were trying to Rethink things, you know, what are we doing?

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Why are we doing it? You know, we don't want to take anything for granted and When we saw the difference that it started making our family as we as we change things it made us passionate to share with other other believing families, you know, the benefits of homeschooling and the necessity of Discipling our children because I was always active in the youth programs, you know

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The youth group and everything my wife was involved with the Wama You know, we did

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Sunday school nursery all the various things but we saw what troubled us was having been in you know, part of youth groups as Teenagers and then being leaders in them later on we were seeing

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Children who were growing up in the church Families who were committed to Christ and you know fathers were deacons and everything.

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I mean they were Invested in the church but they also had their entire educational upbringing in the government schools and in the culture that goes along with that and we saw that it was it was causing problems, you know that the schools and And the worldliness

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Associated with it seemed to have a deeper stronger grasp on these children then the church, you know and their understanding of Scripture and how it applies to their lives and so Seeing that contrast is when it became a passion for me to try to share with parents about our responsibilities as Fathers as mothers, you know raising our children, you know we obviously only the

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Lord can change the heart only the Lord can save our children, but we have this

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Responsibility and obligation to teach them about the Lord and so Starting roughly 14 years ago where that that really became something that was just constantly on my heart

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Yeah, now what what is? The strength or even the necessity of Parents doing more than dad being the breadwinner

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Him coming home and perhaps having a brief devotional with the kids after dinner before they go to sleep or and mom being the homemaker and Greeting the kids when they come home from school and Being loving and caring but allowing

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Probably a great percentage of the time they're allowing The church the pastor

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The youth groups, in fact, we even had a program Recently where we were my guest was being very critical of youth groups to begin with But they are letting other people in the church really fulfill the majority of the roles of Right raising the kids up in the faith and instructing them and so what is the

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What is the strength and perhaps the necessity of the parents having more? hands -on

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Commitment and activity in those areas of Discipling their children and really rolling up their sleeves and Being involved in worship and discipleship and Catechism in their own homes in addition to what goes on in the church

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Yeah, I mean it's first off it's just following the you know, the foundational teaching of Scripture when you think about Deuteronomy 6

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Starting at verse 4 hero Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one You shall love the Lord your

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God with all your heart with all your soul with all your might and these words that I command You today shall be on your heart.

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You shall teach them diligently to your children You shall talk to them when you sit in your house So when you walk by the way, and when you lie down when you rise our entire day

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We Should be pointing our children to Christ we should be pointing our children to The Word of God as our standard of how we live how we conduct our lives

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Why we do what we do and so first and foremost, I mean scripture tells us plainly

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This is what we're supposed to do as the people of God, you know when he's establishing Israel In the nation, you know in the land of whom in the promised land

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One of the things he tells him right off the bat He's giving them his word. He's giving them

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Everything they need to know about him, you know to that point and he's saying teach these things to your children

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You know, we get into judges and it says, you know Joshua and those elders passed away

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And then the next generation rose up and they didn't know the Lord and we constantly find them in a sin cycle of Rebellion against God idolatry and then there's judgment

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So we have Deuteronomy Chapter 6 that points out the imperative of teaching our children.

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I point parents to Psalm 78 Where he says, you know that will

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Open my mouth in a parable other dark things from old verse 4 will not hide them from our children, but tell them the coming generation the glorious deeds of the

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Lord his might and the Wonders that he has done and he goes on talking about, you know Commanded our fathers to teach their children the next generation

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I know them the children get unborn arise and tell them to their children. Psalm 78 is a great example of having a multi -generational vision of Passing down the truth of God and his word to all the succeeding generations and You know

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Looking at these as just a couple of examples It's clear that only parents would typically have the ability to talk to their kids

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About the Lord in their house when they're walking by the way, you know when they're laying down and rising up They have the ability throughout the day to be speaking of God and his word and so first of all logistically, they have the most access to their children and Whenever they have access to their children, they should be sharing the truth with them the other strength of it is we live in a society of institutions and Everyone thinks

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I'm not equipped to To do anything, you know,

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I have my little niche that I know how to do I I can fix cars or you know,

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I can teach economics or whatever, but I can't tell my kids about the faith you know,

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I can't give them a Full academic education. I can't disciple them in the

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Word of God So, you know, we send our kids to the schools to get their academics. We send them in the church to get you know

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Knowledge about the Bible and about holy living and When our kids see that and if they don't see the example at home

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They start to question how important is it really, you know, mom and dad send me to church

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But they're not going to church. You know, they're they tell me that church They should be reading my Bible and praying but I ever seen mom and dad reading the

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Bible or praying except when they're at church You know You know, we send to public schools and They think neutrality, but they go 12 years

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With telling your children that everything that they need to know for life and never include

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God which gives the lesson unless they're speaking badly about God or they're speaking about the other religions that are false religions and indoctrinating them in that But basically the takeaway for the child is

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I know everything I need to know about life and God's not part of it It's just something that we do on Sunday So the strength of parents discipling their children is one it's obedience to God in the first place two logistically, they're the ones who have the access and the ability to do it and Three if they don't do it even when they send their children to church to get that Education at Sunday school a wanna you for what have you they're actually undermining everything that they're

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They're trying to get the kids to learn there because they're not evidencing it at home now, what do you think are the primary areas that have been either abandoned by your average

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Christian parents or they the average Christian parents never got involved in them to begin with the primary areas on Parenting in their lives that they are neglecting or overlooking

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First and foremost sometimes parents They're professing

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Christ, you know, they're telling their kids, you know, we go to church on Sundays But they're not demonstrating anything else about the

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Christian life To their kids throughout the week, they're not opening up the

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Word of God. They're not praying They're not praying for their kids. They're not praying with their kids

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They're just not doing those things to set an example to their children. Well, how do we live as Christians?

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And then it kind of goes out from there the education of our children

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Has always been the parents primary responsibility It's okay.

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You know, I'm big on homeschooling, but our churches is looking to support classical

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Christian schools and and seek to even start one in the future recognizing that sometimes it's just the circumstances of life make it almost almost impossible for You know parents to homeschool their children

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And so we believe that's something where the church should come alongside and provide You know an alternative to the public school the government school and they should be a support for the families of the church to do that But a parent has the responsibility to instill in their children

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God's Word God's standard and a parent has to protect their child

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From those who would seek to steal their children I mean the people of Israel were told not to intermarry, you know with the surrounding nations

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Because they were idolaters, you know, if someone came to Israel and they wanted to follow, you know

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The one true God that the God of Israel, you know in that case

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If they came in then there would be allowances made for marriage, but to intermarry with people who were of a different faith

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Knowing what that would do to that That spouse all the succeeding generations they would be led astray and so for a parent to send their child off to an education that is hostile to Their God to their worldview.

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That's going to undermine everything good that they're trying to instill in their children a parent has to be aware of that and either try to avoid it altogether or Combat it by Being very involved in their child's education knowing what's being taught, you know

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I was very age stage when I first started homeschooling You know and I would rail against the government schools and I have nothing good to say about the government schools

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But I don't want parents who are in desperate situations who don't have a choice To feel like oh, you know, all hope is lost or they don't think

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I love my children because I don't homeschool No, I just recognize that their work is cut out for them though, you know

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They need to be actively involved knowing what their kids are being taught and they need to be

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Combating that with truth. And so the parents Authority and responsibility for their children's education is sometimes just Given over and it's just a status quo.

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Well, everyone is doing that Everyone is sending their kids to this school or they're sending their kids to Christian school when they think well

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It's a Christian school. So what could possibly be wrong, you know, not knowing that not all the teachers are saved

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Sometimes they're using state curriculum, you know because it's cheaper They have no idea what's going on there, but they're just assuming

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I made this good choice So everything's fine and my responsibility is off my shoulders say the same thing with Christian counseling

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You have to be very careful What kind of Christian counseling firm or counselor?

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You seek if you are looking for one because there are some pretty insane things going on in Christian counselors office offices that Have nothing to do with the scriptures

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Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot of pop psychology I know so in a verse to kind of baptize it but it's so contrary to the principles of God's Word It's destructive in nature.

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Yeah. No, we need to be first Ourselves students of the word and you know, you might have a parent who's a new believer who hasn't had much good teaching

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But one of my my favorite Men who were it was instrumental in helping me navigate

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Homeschooling and then and understanding my role as a father, you know Voting Bacchum, you know, and oh, yeah

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He is such an encouragement, you know and the things that he would talk about But he says like when you're you know

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In terms of family worship and stuff and and then going through the scriptures with your your you know

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Your wife and your children and you feel like well, I don't know. I don't know enough of the word He goes you only have to be a chapter ahead

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Read read a chapter the night before You know if you have a good study Bible or commentary to maybe

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Help you out as you as you read through it as you try to understand what you can glean from You know the teachers that God has blessed the church with as long as you know

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And dr. White would tell you to make sure you're careful about the commentaries that you're picking up Because some of them can be destructive, but if you're part of a good church, you know

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Look to them for perhaps some advice in that area But You're just you're passing on to your kids what you're learning

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So even if you're new in the faith, even if you haven't had good teaching before You start today and get started and start, you know

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Instilling that in your children and just recognizing God has placed you over them

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He's given them to you, you know children are a gift from the Lord And He's going to help to equip you to qualify you to do what he's called you to do

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You know was just mentioning last night during a study how Lord chose Abraham, you know and talking about that back in Genesis He says

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I chose him that he might command his children after me Not that I'll choose him because he will or he's already going to do that God choosing

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Abraham made Abraham able to to teach his children the ways of God And so if God has called you to parenthood and if you have children, he's called you

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He will equip you to do what you need to do And we have to go to our first Break right now.

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If anybody has a question for pastor Christopher McDowell You may submit it to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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chris A -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence

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If you are outside the USA please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and we could readily see that anything involving parents and children might have

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Might evoke a question that is very sensitive and intimately private one

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So you may feel free to remain anonymous, but please if it's just a general question Give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

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Don't go away We'll be right back with pastor Christopher McDowell right after these messages from our sponsors

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I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the

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Unfathomable riches of Christ in his Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have for more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church Go to hope reform

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Li dotnet That's hope reformed. Li dotnet or call 631 696 5711 that's 631 696 5711

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on iron sharpens iron

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They are one of our largest sponsors and you can find out more at ignited by the word org ignited by the word org and Today if you just tuned in our guest for the entire program is

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Christopher McDowell one of three pastors alongside pastor Rich Jensen and pastor

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Anthony Eugenio at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York An advertiser here on iron trip and sign radio that helps us remain on the air as all our advertisers do

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And I have known and loved this congregation for decades actually

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Ever since it was first Established at a church. I knew pastor

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Rich Jensen before he even had planted this church so I can

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Give nothing but the very highest recommendations for Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York And again, their website is hope reformed li .net

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Hope reformed li .net We have an anonymous listener

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Who is Saying I have had a little bit of a dispute going on between my spouse and I over whether homeschooling or a very

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Fine Christian school would be more appropriate for the education of our children is

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One preferred by you or are they both equal in your opinion in the sight of God? I Would in my opinion

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I I prefer Homeschooling, but I have a

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Sincere genuine respect and appreciation for classical

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Christian education I think it might depend on the family

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You know if you're if you're both of the mindset that you want your children

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To have the best education and you understand it should be Christ centered then You're you're on the right path, you know if your pastor knows your situation

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Well, you know You know, if there's a reason why you feel like maybe

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School would be better than homeschooling, you know, maybe as someone who knows you you might be able to point you

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In one direction or the other knowing the context knowing your particular circumstances

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But for me, I I prefer homeschooling For a couple of reasons one

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You know your child best and Your ability to teach them, you know

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Children are different they have You know, we have the government schools and even

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Christian schools because they're trying to accomplish something on a bigger scale, you know So sometimes it's a lot of one -size -fits -all

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But some children learn better with certain styles over others and you can tailor make their curriculum in a way that will

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Meet their their learning style, so they'll learn most efficiently and effectively also

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It's hard you can't discipline other children The way they think they need it the most and when you're dealing with many children even trying to what parents know about You know bad habits and problematic behavior

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They can't they can't Discipline your child the way you can and you're not always going to find out about some of those problem areas

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One of the benefits of homeschooling One thing I would always encourage my wife who did the lion chair of homeschooling as I was

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Outworking was Character before academics, you know, so if a child was misbehaving who's not cooperating, you know

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Their heart attitude needed to be dealt with Then there and that's a priority over everything else, you know

40:15

I don't want my child to you know Need all the high honor rolls and have all the the academic accolades and have a rebellious heart that was never dealt with So I always encourage her to deal with the heart issues right away and Far more efficient in raising our children and disciplining our children

40:36

And the younger you start with them the easier it'll be as they get older because if you can establish correct biblical discipline

40:44

You know, there'll be less and less need for it If you're consistent as they get older and no one else can do that, but but a parent so for that reason

40:53

I prefer homeschooling and One of the things I wanted to mention at some point here talking about having our child's heart is

41:05

It's a major necessity and most parents don't Recognize the need for it

41:12

And they feel they feel Overwhelmed because there's so many, you know

41:17

There's there's their friends and you know Their peers and there might be coaches and teachers and youth leaders and and you know, who knows

41:25

You know who that child might be favoring and they have eyes for that person they're they're more quick to follow that person's example than their own parents, but Homeschooling you have the ability to have more time with your child.

41:39

You can have more influence on them You can gain their heart now when we're telling homeschool

41:46

New homeschool families if the kids are somewhat reluctant some kids can't wait to homeschool some kids like now

41:51

I have all my friends I don't want to you know We say go out and do fun things with them show them the flexibility and the fun

41:57

That you can have as a homeschooler as opposed to going to you know, the government school in this case

42:04

And just win their heart work on that relationship and when you're homeschooling you have that ability

42:10

To Have their heart to be the one who has major influence as scripture calls us to you know

42:17

I shared before about Deuteronomy 6 and Psalm 78, but if you look through Proverbs, you know, particularly that the first several chapters

42:25

It's the admonition of a father speaking to his son saying, you know, listen to my instruction and listen to your mother

42:31

You know, give me your heart my son, but your eyes observe my ways. I just feel like homeschooling

42:38

Gives you a lot more opportunity to do that. You know, if some people are really hard -pressed a classical

42:45

Christian education, I think would be you know also a Worthwhile and and and useful endeavor because you're hopefully finding a school that has

42:58

You know solid Christ centered education and it's actual real education, you know

43:04

That's going to teach them the things that they need to know It's not just indoctrinating them in the fields of what our today's society is is modeling

43:14

Well Well, yeah, I want you to be as thorough as you can. Well, one of the things that You revealed in your answer.

43:24

Is that although you personally Believe that homeschooling is the best way and that would be

43:34

If you take into consideration everything else you said that would be in ideal situations

43:40

I'm assuming by some of what you said that you are conceding that sometimes a

43:49

Good solid Christian school even like the classical Christian school that you are

43:56

Considering to develop as a church at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Quorum and also as Your fellow pastor

44:03

Rich Jensen was a headmaster at a fine Christian school Which still exists now headed by Steve Schultz in Merrick Long Island Grace Christian Academy in Merrick Long Island you obviously

44:17

If you take the full context of what you said believe that sometimes it is best and the better option

44:24

For parents to admit their children in a Christian school because of their own circumstances

44:31

Yeah, there's circumstances, you know with Sometimes it's work

44:36

Sometimes it's going on with the spouses. I mean, I've spoken to other pastors who knowing the family situation and knowing, you know, the

44:47

Growth and sanctification that was still being worked out in a family I don't know if they would be able to you know if they have the discipline to educate their child the way they need to so and with that parent recognizing their own weaknesses and sometimes, you know a

45:05

School system, you know might be better You know, and so there could be there could be a number of reasons why a

45:14

Christian school would be the way to go So I certainly don't want to knock, you know, I know we have a good brethren

45:22

You know in those schools I know we have good brethren sending their children to those schools and I've seen you know

45:28

The the education that some of those kids are getting and it really is very impressive, you know

45:34

And you know when I talk about disciplining your child and then discipling them

45:39

You're it's not you're not completely thwarted with them in the school system I mean in their early formative years when they're very young, you know teaching them to to respect authority and respond rightly

45:56

And then being in communication with their teachers and stuff to see if there's any issues that need to be resolved Plus, you know, there's the nature will come out in the off hours when they're not at school and you know, you'll see things you know heart

46:11

Attitude hard issues that need to be addressed. So you're not You know, you're not going to be able to you're not going to be unable to to address those things

46:21

So I don't want anyone to think oh, well if I don't If I said my child to a classical Christian school,

46:27

I said not gonna be disciplined No, of course, you're gonna have opportunities outside of that. I'm just saying

46:32

I think it's Easier, you know when your homeschooling because you're seeing it firsthand

46:39

Well, thank you anonymous and if you are a first -time questioner

46:45

You have won a free New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the

46:50

NASB And also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV BBS comm will actually be shipping that Bible out to you if you

47:02

Submit to us via email your full name and mailing address. Obviously since you've remained anonymous

47:08

We will not divulge that information on the air. So thank you again for Your excellent question we have another first -time questioner,

47:19

I believe And these are actually questioners Miguel and Tiffany from Barnstead, New Hampshire.

47:28

I'm almost certain that they are first -time questioners Miguel and Tiffany ask

47:35

There isn't much out there in the way of Christian Blended families now in Union as a result of biblical divorces on how to navigate the challenges of teaching children diligently in the word and with dealing with the negative

47:53

Influences they are succumbed to when they are away with their other parents

48:00

What insight? Would you share in navigating such challenges as we prepare for such a union together so I'm assuming a blended family means that you have

48:13

Folks who are getting married or already married, but they were previously married to other people and perhaps the children

48:24

Of either or both spouses came from those other Individuals that they were once married to so it adds a complication to the issue.

48:35

I'm assuming I'm correctly Understanding Miguel and Tiffany, but do you have an answer to that?

48:43

Yeah, it's um It's one of those areas where you're you're really going to be looking to God's grace to help you navigate so it's an opportunity to be in prayer a great deal and and seeking the word and seeking the encouragement of you know, the local church body that they're they're part of for You know prayer support and encouragement

49:11

Because there's I think of You know the people of Israel and their time their exile in Babylon you know and there's still a responsibility on their part to be

49:22

Faithful as they can in very difficult circumstances and we know that God gives grace in difficult circumstances so It's one of those things where in addition to prayer, you know when you're dealing with you know a next spouse who

49:42

Doesn't agree with the education that you want to give your children Is not supporting you or is undermining you

49:50

You really look to the Lord to help but Children who are caught in the middle particularly if they're not believers themselves, but even if they are and they're young and and they're you know,

50:02

They're going between two people whom they love, you know who are at odds with one another in a conflict

50:08

You want to work on your relationship as much as you possibly can, you know when

50:13

I mentioned before about You know for the new homeschooling family, you know, the children were reluctant to be homeschooled they they had their their peers

50:22

They had their friends. They enjoyed school. They didn't want to give it up I Stressed, you know, and we we always encourage these these parents, you know to Work on having your children's heart, you know as much as you can

50:38

Work on that relationship the things that you can do for fun To show them how much

50:45

You know, it can be enjoyable the flexibility But if you're if you're struck, you know,

50:52

I know I know lots of unfortunately Couples that are dealing with you know, the one parent to believe or one parents not

51:01

And it's hard. It's a very tricky area to navigate For either the husband or the wife, you know,

51:08

I mean husband has Authority and and stuff and sometimes has you know more say

51:16

But depending on which one is which one is not but basically you want to pour into your child as much as possible and recognize that God is the one who has to change the heart, you know, you there might be legal things that you have to go through You know with the courts

51:35

There might be agreements that need to be made but you want to work on your relationship with your child as much as possible pouring into them

51:44

Looking for conversations where you can find common ground Because a child is going to need their parents they're gonna they're gonna run into circumstances where they want advice or they're not sure what to do and You know if you have

52:00

If you have their heart if you've been, you know showing them that you love them praying for them

52:08

You'll have opportunities to speak truth to them. Hopefully you'll have opportunities to Influence how the education goes but it is it is a tricky area and it can depend on It'll depend on the specific circumstances of that and if you want to pick up where we left off on that same subject

52:30

We have to go to our break right now Folks, this is our midway break. It's longer than the other breaks because grace life radio 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they are required by the

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FCC to localize iron sharpens iron radio Geographically to Lake City, Florida and they do so with their own

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53:17

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53:27

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53:33

We'll be right back after these messages When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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Of the church at friendship in Hockley, Texas and the NASB is my Bible of choice

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You Hello, my name is Anthony Vino and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York And also the host of the reform rookie comm website

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Baptist Church Of quorum, Long Island. We have a couple of important announcements to make

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Also, that is the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today Christopher McDowell One of three pastors that hope perform

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Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York and We are discussing a very important theme today a theme that could even be considered one of the most important areas in the lives of Christians, especially if they are parents and That is the theme

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Christian parents overlooked aspects of their vital roles Again our email address is

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Chris Arns in a gmail .com Chris Arns in a gmail .com and I forgot to mention to Miguel and Tiffany in Barnstead, New Hampshire If you are indeed first -time questioners, please send me your full mailing address in Barnstead, New Hampshire so that CVB BS comm

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Carmelin Valley Bible Book Service can ship out to you a free New American Standard Bible We Have another anonymous listener

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Who says I have dear friends who send their children to Roman Catholic parochial schools

01:14:04

Even though they are theologically reformed Protestant and evangelical they say that there are no good solid

01:14:14

Evangelical schools near them. Do you accept this as an alternative? Um Well, I want to I want to be clear, um, you know, this isn't about my preferences

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You know, and I think there's You know, God gives us a lot of grace.

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So on the one hand I want to Trumpet the benefits of homeschooling and a classical

01:14:43

Christian education But I also don't want the weight of condemnation on parents who are struggling to be as faithful as they can

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Knowing what they know about God and his word and and knowing their circumstances So I can't insert my my thoughts and opinions to every every particular situation.

01:15:04

I know sometimes Parents have sent their children to Catholic schools because they feel like the education is better than what the government school is offering

01:15:12

You know and their own local Government school might be notorious for violence or something.

01:15:19

Yeah. Yeah so there might be again there might be circumstances where they are

01:15:26

They are unable to homeschool and if there's no suitable school out there

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This might be something where I don't know what's involved with. I mean, I know people who have gone to Roman Catholic schools

01:15:40

I don't know what's involved with some of the teachings or the expectations, you know, they can pray the rosary.

01:15:45

I don't know but I think Wherever you send your children to school

01:15:53

Whether it be the government school or a Catholic school or even a classical Christian school it's still your obligation to be responsible for your children's education

01:16:03

Which means you need to know what's being taught and you need to be speaking with your children

01:16:09

To address areas that you know, if you have disagreements, you know, hopefully with the government school is that they're teaching your children but a

01:16:18

Catholic school or if there's a Christian school, you know where you know, sometimes the classical

01:16:23

Christian school is unavailable and that they're sending it to their children to another Christian school, but you know, perhaps the doctrine that they hold to You wouldn't necessarily agree with if you're sending your children there

01:16:36

It's still your obligation to know what they're being taught and having discussions Discussions with your children.

01:16:43

Oh, yeah about About what's being taught what you agree with what you don't agree with why you don't agree with it, you know

01:16:52

So that they're aware. I mean as I mentioned before, you know, I'm a public school graduate I spent my entire education was

01:16:59

Was in the public school and I even went to a community college for and got my associates there

01:17:06

Um, one of the best things my father did for me and you know, he he became a believer

01:17:12

Around the time I was born But you know the homeschooling wasn't even a thought most people weren't talking about it then there was just a few pockets of it happening

01:17:22

Christian school was just not affordable But he was always

01:17:27

Having conversations with us about about the Word of God He was bringing up the church he was bringing up to Creation seminars, you know and giving us good information

01:17:40

So that when I'm hearing about things like evolution I know that it's wrong and I can answer some of the questions and I can you know even have a discussion with the science teacher or my fellow students about it, so He poured into us to give us all the tools that he could so that we would be able to you know get through public school, but not be

01:18:06

Not falling to the deception of all the lies that the public school will teach our children, you know back then

01:18:13

Evolution was was the main cause for concern, you know now my goodness with the

01:18:20

LGBT agenda and trans and pronouns and there's so much stuff, you know, just being instilled

01:18:28

From an early age, I mean most parents they don't want to talk to their children about sex, you know and and you know puberty they want years to talk about that and yet in kindergarten classes

01:18:41

Children are being indoctrinated about what a family looks like can look like should look like they're promoted.

01:18:47

They're promoting Transgenderism and every other form of sexual perversion in Classes as young as kindergarten age and it just reminds me.

01:18:57

I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to promote a Documentary that you must listen to and watch all of you who are listening and even get your church or your

01:19:11

Christian school or You're a civic organization to sponsor some kind of a community gathering

01:19:18

Where you're inviting parents to see this documentary It's called the mind polluters.

01:19:26

I Interviewed one of the participants in this documentary Audrey Werner if you go to the iron sharpens iron radio

01:19:34

Website and go to the art archives podcast past shows It's titled that that section of the website you could type in Audrey a

01:19:46

Ud re why I believe she is the only person I've ever interviewed with that first name and our recent interview will come up as well as all my other interviews with Audrey Werner and You will hear more about this powerful and disturbing documentary the mind polluters and You could also go to their direct website fearless features org

01:20:12

That's fearless features org forward -slash the mind polluters that's forward slash the mind polluters and you will

01:20:26

If this doesn't get you to remove your children from government schools, I don't know if anything will

01:20:32

This is mind -blowing. This is this is their satanic and twisted and perverse stuff going on out there and I just highly recommend this and in fact,

01:20:41

I'm also in the process of arranging another interview on this documentary featuring the couple that has

01:20:51

Actually created it So and this also features the likes of Ken Ham and this documentary and other very capable spokes

01:21:03

Spokespersons on this issue the couple that that created this documentary are

01:21:08

Mark and Amber Archer And I hope to have them on the show as well very soon, but I'm sorry for interrupting you there

01:21:15

I just thought that was an important moment to interject that No, that's that's great. I hadn't heard of that.

01:21:22

I'll be sure to check it out one one documentary That we we were part of a a homeschool support group

01:21:32

It's New York State Leah a loving education at home and we were yes became part of a local chapter and Eventually that the chapter grows grew so big we um

01:21:44

We had a part ways and then set up a few different chapters So that it wasn't overwhelming for the people who were trying to lead it and support

01:21:52

You know, and so we we start our own chapter out in Eastport And at the time every summer

01:22:00

Our family we would we would host this Movie it's a full -length documentary called indoctrination

01:22:08

By Colin Gunn and it's about public schools and the decline of Christianity in America Because a lot of times we get you know families who were coming in who were homeschooling

01:22:19

And generally it was the moms who were more on board and and eager to do it and the dads were either in different They were just like okay, you know

01:22:29

Somewhat reluctant but willing to go along with it and they watch that video and say oh I get it now

01:22:35

You know and they they got a clear picture of the danger And that came out a number of years ago and the way things have

01:22:43

Gotten steadily worse. I can only imagine what mine polluters Is revealing

01:22:50

I'll make your skin crawl. It's absolutely. Yeah, it's grotesque and these defiant

01:22:58

Perverse Minions of Satan are They don't want to just be tolerated.

01:23:05

They want to program your children to not only

01:23:12

Tolerate the the presence of this stuff. They want them to participate and celebrate this stuff

01:23:21

So and it's not this is no conspiracy theory you will see in this documentary clips video clips of the very curriculum that these leftists are pushing on innocent little children and So they will show clearly what these people on the left are

01:23:47

Saying and doing themselves in these classrooms. So yeah There is

01:23:55

There is no neutrality, you know It was never neutral. It was never about just You know a neutral education.

01:24:05

It's just now that we feel the gloves are off and and You know, they were more subtle about it in the past but it's just gotten

01:24:14

Blatant in your face and most people are so used to the status quo that they figure, you know

01:24:20

The teachers unions and those studying the agenda here that all the power is in their hands

01:24:25

You know who wants to take on the responsibility of well, you're gonna figure it out. You're gonna be responsible

01:24:31

You know, you don't have the education which is you know, of course ridiculous. It's unnecessary

01:24:37

You have what you need and there's curriculums out there that will help you But you know and then we know, you know, there can be

01:24:45

Christians who are in the field of education who are teachers But you're still working with a curriculum that you know, they have to struggle along with because you know, it's in the curriculum

01:24:56

It's what's being taught one way or another it's coming through now one thing going back to There being rare occasions and I'm assuming you would agree that they should be rare where Evangelical Bible -believing born -again parents are sending their children to a

01:25:17

Roman Catholic parochial school Don't you think that they have to really be clear with their children?

01:25:23

that All or at least the majority of those that are involved in their instruction.

01:25:31

There are not born again brothers and sisters in Christ and they have to Prepare them not to involve themselves the selves in idolatry if these schools even permit

01:25:45

Students from outside of their religion To not participate in things like you were mentioning before the rosary praying to Mary and the

01:25:55

Saints and idols You know, don't you think that you have to be clear with your kids?

01:26:02

Remember? Yeah, this this school is not a representation of where mommy and daddy worship

01:26:10

There there's many of them are very nice people And we think that you're gonna get educated in many ways in a superior manner there

01:26:19

In fact, I know like when I went to Roman Catholic school before I was saved. I Went there for eight years.

01:26:26

I have nothing but fond memories of that by the way But I know that there was definitely a superior instruction in regard to penmanship and Being articulate in involved in regard to grammar and There I really believe

01:26:52

I did get a superior education than my friends who were in government schools and they did a

01:27:01

Minority of the time Indoctrinate kids about specific

01:27:07

Roman Catholic teachings Both Those that are dogmatic and those that were the opinion of the nuns

01:27:15

I don't even know how many nuns are in Catholic schools today teaching but when

01:27:20

I was in Catholic school, I don't know if it's gotten worse or better or how how diverse of the situation you have from school to school but the science class

01:27:34

In my elementary school my Roman Catholic elementary school st. Martin of Tours in Amityville We were taught evolution.

01:27:42

We were taught Darwinian evolution and We were even told by our particular science teacher

01:27:50

Don't listen to the nuns about Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden and all that stuff. There was a fairy tales we were told that in our

01:27:59

In our in our science classes and I would be shocked if think this was in the late 60s and 70s

01:28:04

And I would be shocked if things got better In the parochial schools in the Catholic Church, especially when you consider who their

01:28:11

Pope is now but I think that there's got to be a lot of caution taken with this because we too many too many reformed people think that Roman Catholics Share our gospel and the differences are minor they think that smells and bells and robes and Statues are really the only thing separating us and that's not true at all.

01:28:37

They have a different gospel dogmatically, even though I believe that there are Roman Catholics who are saved because they have embraced the true gospel, but For some reason and I don't believe they're ever good reasons, but for some reason they remain in the

01:28:52

Roman Catholic Church But the in an official

01:28:59

Status if you're talking about what they dogmatically teach They have a false gospel and they have for centuries

01:29:06

Since the Council of Trent declared that we have a false gospel, so it can't be the same gospel

01:29:11

Yeah, it's surprising that someone who's reformed would think that I mean,

01:29:17

I know you know there's a lot of confusion and Unfortunately, there's too many in the what you would call the

01:29:23

Protestant Church evangelicals Really don't understand the distinctions between us and Rome You would think someone holding to reformed

01:29:32

You would they will look at J .i. Packer Yeah, J .i. Packer understood the gospel he wrote brilliantly and Clearly about the gospel and yet he was an ecumenist.

01:29:45

He signed the evangelicals and Catholics together document and Even when he apparently made some kind of a public apology about that after being pressured by R .C.

01:29:56

Sproul and others he wound up signing another document that was subsequent to that by the same group of people like Chuck Colson and other ecumenist and the books that Dr.

01:30:08

Packer would endorse by Apostate Roman Catholics like Peter Kreeft and so on.

01:30:15

I mean just Mind -boggling I don't understand it Yeah, I would tell parents you know,

01:30:22

I While I'm trying to you know be balanced in my in my response

01:30:28

And again, you know, I don't want to put a weight of condemnation on parents who are in desperate situations

01:30:35

My biggest concern and would get me a lot of trouble because I would rail against government schools

01:30:41

And I would rail against a parochial school, you know Catholic parochial school as well Because they're not teaching our children what they should be teaching, you know, and if you're in a desperate situation

01:30:51

It's one thing and God is gracious You know and and you can work to combat the education that they're getting

01:30:57

You know talking about the idolatry of praying to Saints praying those things parents should make it clear with their children

01:31:03

But they should know from the school. They should be interacting What kind of things will you be expecting of my child the student to do to participate take part in?

01:31:12

What sort of things do you do because my child is not going to participate in this that or the other thing so the parents should be you know engage with the school and knowing what's expected what's not expected and Drawing lines and boundaries and they should be instructing their children

01:31:26

But if they can find my biggest concern is too many parents Don't even think about the possibility

01:31:35

You know and oftentimes where there's a will there's a way and this is why I speak about You know the classical

01:31:42

Christian school and the benefits of it and the fact that I believe the church You know we focus all of our time and energy and money into programs for the youth and If you really want it to be efficient and effective with the resources that God has given us to steward

01:32:01

Create a school support a school And and give kids scholarships if their parents are like, you know, they're both working just to make it

01:32:10

Help them educate their children the way they need to be educated So that they don't have to go to the government school.

01:32:16

They don't have to go to the Roman Catholic school You know, they don't have to go to the Muslim school that opens up and it's got a really great math program

01:32:21

You know, whatever it is. We should understand the priority And our responsibility

01:32:28

I think too many parents are just used to the status quo And so I think it's something that we should be talking about a little bit more in the churches

01:32:37

You know as a body should be working together to support parents with that kind of education

01:32:44

You know my concern with youth ministries and all that stuff is that we look to other people to lead our children spiritually and Our children don't look to us and we don't we don't try to set standards for them.

01:32:59

We don't try to lead them and guide them in the faith and Disciple them and mentor them the way we ought to and that's our responsibility

01:33:07

That's our obligation before God is to raise our raise our children

01:33:12

You know, it's okay to have help and support, you know We do have you know, the churches of body and we're there to you know, build each other up, you know in Christ But that doesn't mean we you know

01:33:27

We have to get our responsibility to our children Teach them what we ought to teach them. And so we want to make sure that we're doing that You know education is a big part of it

01:33:38

You know You're talking about years of their life, you know Because of the requirements of the state and the government of how many years they need to do it

01:33:47

But there's everything else going on in the day, you know, what sort of standards are we setting for our children?

01:33:53

Do we do family worship? Do we pray with them? Do we read with them? Do we discuss the scriptures with them?

01:33:59

Are we mindful of You know the worldview that our children are developing what kind of lens do they have to look at the world?

01:34:08

What are they reading? What are they listening to? What are they watching on TV the movies? You know

01:34:13

We give our kids smartphones and stuff like that to keep them occupied You give us peace and quiet and yet they have access to pornography or they have access to just all

01:34:23

These things that are giving them a worldview And it's unchecked by us, you know, we have to be mindful

01:34:31

I Didn't lose you tonight. Oh, no. I'm just listening and absorbing everything you're saying

01:34:38

We have another anonymous listener a lot of anonymous listeners today another anonymous listener who says in the

01:34:49

Reformed Church where I am and most of my favorite Reformed Teachers and writers everyone seems to be extremely opposed to the concept of Introducing fun into a worship service

01:35:05

But at the same time I realized that there are things that Christians can participate in and enjoy

01:35:13

Outside of corporate worship that are still godly and honoring to God that do include fun

01:35:20

You mentioned before how homeschool or homeschooling parents have more of an opportunity to Import fun into the education of your children.

01:35:31

And if you could be more detailed in your explanation of this Sure To address just what was mentioned before about introducing fun into the worship service

01:35:42

I mean, we've developed a consumer mindset among churches the seeker churches seeker friendly

01:35:48

We forget that when we're coming to church as a body on the Lord's Day We're coming to worship

01:35:54

God and not ourselves and we got to remember the story of Nadab and Abihu to who?

01:36:01

Offered strange incense. There's no mention that I'm aware of that. They were intentionally doing something

01:36:07

Sacrilegious or malicious they'd used to use their own incense and God Devoured them with flames

01:36:13

Right, not that not that God does that today, but his view of false worship is no different He is an unchanging

01:36:21

God Right So that's what I mean by people who import things into a worship service that are intended to be fun

01:36:30

I mean, I've even seen ridiculous Videos of church services where you see in these massive crowds people

01:36:40

Passing giant beach balls along, you know punching them into the air across the audience and so I mean all kinds of ridiculous and Blasphemous things going on.

01:36:53

So I guess that's what You're our listener who is saying that reform people tend to frown upon that not all there are some reform people who do not believe in the

01:37:04

Regulative principle of worship and wind up all doing all kinds of stupid things just like other churches do

01:37:10

But but but but the listener is right, isn't he or she? That there is a difference in our liberties in regard to things in a worship service and things at home

01:37:23

Yes, absolutely, you know That's the thing. I mean Christians can have fun, you know

01:37:30

We're not told to be, you know humdrum, you know, no, no happiness

01:37:36

No joy, and that is definitely not the attitude of hope reform Baptist Church. I could tell you that I mean before you before you even got there.

01:37:45

They would have me do stand -up comedy at the Tuscarora youth retreats Exactly, you know, we we love to laugh and to enjoy our time together with our families with the body of Christ But speaking to how can we make, you know homeschool fun for the kids, you know one example that I would give you

01:38:07

The first day of school, you know, you see the school buses going by stuff like that We would have it because it's you know, it's

01:38:12

September. It's still warm It's it's beach day for us, you know

01:38:17

All right You know everyone else is getting on the bus to go off to school and we're going to the beach because we can do whatever we

01:38:23

Want, you know, our schedule is flexible So we would and you have a lot more flexibility in your day with you know

01:38:32

When you're doing the schoolwork and how you're getting it done and and all that So you have a lot more time to do things that you enjoy your kids can

01:38:41

Focus on passions that they enjoy You know, we would We would take family vacations that were like half vacation half field trip

01:38:51

When we were first started homeschooling one one of my daughters really couldn't read She's a sweetheart and her teachers loved her.

01:38:58

But you know, they weren't teaching her how to read. They weren't using phonics They weren't sounding it out. You know, they were guessing

01:39:04

So we got her into reading by finding a subject that she likes horses and we got her the mystery of Shinkateak Stories the books and then we went down to Virginia.

01:39:16

We visited Shinkateak you know and so Got to see the place that she had been reading about it and you know, and you can explore that area so you can do

01:39:27

All sorts of activities you can do all sorts of field trips You can be much more hands -on and especially when they're younger, but even as they're getting older, you know, there's so much to do

01:39:37

You know, and if you're struggling coming up with ideas, you know get in touch with the local

01:39:43

Homeschool group, you know find, you know, there's resources out there online But you could find probably a local body, you know a local group that can give you ideas on what you can do but there's there's so much to do that you can enjoy yourself and have fun find things that are interesting to the kids and Teaching them at the same time.

01:40:02

All right, we have to go to our final break It's gonna be a lot more brief than the other breaks If you have a question, please submit it immediately because we're rapidly running out of time

01:40:09

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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Don't go away. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors I'm dr.

01:40:27

Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

01:40:37

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01:49:14

I'm pastor Anthony video and thanks for listening. We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who has two questions that are both excellent

01:49:26

CJ wants to know how much of the family worship should be led by an unbelieving husband if any

01:49:37

And I'll let first we'll have you answer that and then I'll go on to the second question I Mean I know that that conservative reformed

01:49:49

Christian churches like ours believe in the headship of the husband even when he's an unbeliever and we

01:49:57

We are caught in a quandary sometimes when we are faced with a question like that because Christians aren't even really supposed to worship with an unbeliever

01:50:09

Other than to have them in our midst when we have people visiting our churches and so on but like for instance should a

01:50:20

An unbelieving husband be given like a catechism book a good solid one like teaches or something

01:50:27

Or the Westminster shorter catechism or something and you go through these things With the mom present who is a believer

01:50:36

Even though he is an unbeliever. Is it is that wise or what do you what do you think? You know what that question throws me for a loop because I've never had it asked

01:50:47

I've never seen an unbelieving father expressed interest in community family worship

01:50:53

If he's interested in reading family worship I would be talking to him about the gospel and him submitting himself to the

01:50:59

God that he is Leading his family in worship of I would not recommend him leading worship

01:51:06

You know, we wouldn't have an unbeliever come up during worship to pray or to preach I'd be open for someone explaining why that might why it might be okay

01:51:16

But my first inclination is to say no, I wouldn't recommend an unbeliever Leading family worship if they're so inclined.

01:51:24

I would want to be really pushing to hear them You know hear the gospel and and discuss, you know scripture and try to come to understand

01:51:32

You know if they're willing to worship God with their children, why why are they not submitting themselves to Christ and you know

01:51:39

Well, you know you do it you do it. You do have situations where an unregenerate man

01:51:46

Thinks he is a Christian and may even out of arrogance want to lead the children and he may even acquiesce to use a

01:51:56

A Reformed catechism in doing so but it might be one of those situations where he doesn't even go to church.

01:52:04

He's got a Superior attitude. He doesn't think that the church where his wife is a member is worth his time you know that I've met all kinds of couples over the

01:52:17

Decades I've been a Christian and I've definitely met husbands like that who think that they're Christians, even though they really don't give

01:52:23

Convincing evidence of it Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, that's you're talking about the difference of someone who's professing when you said an unbelieving husband

01:52:32

I'm assuming someone who's unbelieving and Is stating that they're not a believer, you know, if a parent is saying that they believe in Christ You know and they want to lead worship and I would say yeah get a catechism get a get a family worship thing

01:52:48

You know Joel Beattie has something out. There's there's resources out there And if I'm if I'm a believing wife, you know who doesn't you know questions my husband salvation, but he's willing to lead

01:53:00

I would be praying and asking the church. I attend the you know people. I know

01:53:05

I can trust if To be praying for him that he would be convicted going through this worship of you know

01:53:13

The things that are being discussed, you know the scripture and whatnot But um, I mean if he's saying that he's a believer and he wants to lead then

01:53:21

I would say Yeah, get a catechism get something, you know and do that and then pray that he's convicted

01:53:26

I mean there were Unbelieving priests in the time of Israel who you know The people still had to go and bring their sacrifices didn't negate their worship of God That priest would have to be responsible to God for what he was doing if he was doing something wrong, right?

01:53:41

but uh, yes, so that answers that the best I can there and Abraham Kuyper was a lost liberal

01:53:49

Minister who got saved while being a pastor as an unbeliever through the evangelism of an elderly woman in the church

01:54:00

But the other question CJ has is can you list the Essential elements that you should be that you believe should always be present in a family altar and all things associated with family worship and The catechism of children the catechizing of children in the home

01:54:24

Yeah What are the essential elements of having a family altar and that kind of thing?

01:54:30

I mean must a family open up their their hymnals and other things that they have their psalters and Sing praises to God in their home and other things like that What are some of the essential things that you should think must be present?

01:54:46

um, I Think in those are great when we do family worship. We use a Trinity Baptist hymnal

01:54:53

And so that that I think is beneficial You want to have the scriptures, you know?

01:55:00

You can take just just a verse you can take a chapter, you know You can do as much or as little as you like, but basically a lot of what you would find in the in the worship service

01:55:11

You know, it's a little bit different for you know local for the family, you know I wouldn't be giving communion to my children there even though you know, they're baptized and believers

01:55:22

You know, they partake of the Lord's Supper at on the Lord's Day but prayer singing scripture

01:55:29

Those are the the elements of worship that I would be bringing into it The time wise when you do it how long you do it for that can depend on the family, you know

01:55:40

But I think it's important to try to do it on a daily basis You know, sometimes

01:55:45

I've heard people recommend trying to do like, you know morning and evening like this morning and evening Offerings, you know the

01:55:50

Abraham would offer, you know when he's with his family That's great. If you can do it, but if you're if you're spending time aside, you know on a daily basis making that part of your schedule

01:56:03

You are showing your children that God is a priority in your life and it's

01:56:08

Giving them an example to follow but absolutely being in prayer singing a song or two, you know favorite hymn

01:56:18

Worship chorus, you know, and of course, you know The scripture, you know, you can go through a proverbs you can do a verse you can do a chapter you can discuss it

01:56:27

You can ask the kids if they have questions and don't be afraid to tell your kids You don't know, you know part of the

01:56:33

Christian life is growing and we ask questions and then we go and seek out those answers And then come back with them.

01:56:40

I I know a couple of dear Elderly couple one.

01:56:45

The wife is now in heaven, but Jerry and Fern Hill. Maybe you've heard of them. They they operate the

01:56:52

Timothy Hill Children's Ranch in Riverhead, Long Island and They had a tradition from when their children were little all the way through When their children are now

01:57:05

Very large adults one of their children was a professional football player with the

01:57:13

Seattle Seahawks But they had a tradition where at the dinner table before anybody ate

01:57:21

Each person at the table was to give a reason a specific reason why they believe

01:57:28

God blessed them that day so I thought that was a very wonderful thing to Bring in the faith into the home

01:57:38

Teaching gratitude. Yeah, and one quick question of my own Is it okay for the husband if he thinks his wife is more articulate or stronger in the faith?

01:57:51

Maybe she's been saved longer to let her take the reins on all those things done under the roof of the household and As he sits back and participates maybe as an observer, but isn't really leading it is that okay?

01:58:07

I would say no, it's it's not about gifting as it is about role and responsibility

01:58:14

You know, I think if you're if you're having a discussion about scripture by all means, you know

01:58:20

If a question comes up Maybe she has a good answer for it and she can help explain it and articulate to the children

01:58:26

But being able to pray being able to sing being able to read scripture and to try to answer some questions

01:58:33

You don't have to be eloquent. You don't have to be very skilled in it You just have to do your best but you want to show that it's a man's responsibility to lead his family and as you were saying before if it is the

01:58:46

Believing if the husband is believed Yes, and we have to we're out of time and I want to make sure our listeners have your website

01:58:54

It's hope reformed li .net. Hope reformed li .net. That's hope reform Baptist Church of Quorum, Long Island, New York Thank you so much

01:59:02

Pastor Chris, especially with very late notice for being our guest today Thank you Everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives