Who authorized the Government taking over Charity? | Ep. 10

What happened in 1965? A giant welfare state where the government stepped in and tried to be the the parent

Rather than doing what it was called to do the great society caused the disparities that we're seeing

Welcome to Tear down high places. This is Joe Gordon. I'm here with Pastor Jeff and Pastor Tim and We're gonna tear down a high place today that some of you might not think is a really high place.

Tim What's the high place? We're gonna the high place is on the top shelf. I Can't quite reach it

You say you tell them Joe Government charity should the government be involved in charity at all and how much of a problem is it?

And what what's the trickle -down effects from it? Hmm. Yeah, you showed Clip you sent us a clip over email.

That is just one of my favorite quotes of all time So I was so glad when you you sent it share it with the people

Antonin Scalia, you may recall was a Supreme Court justice who passed away recently not too far

He said the transformation of charity into legal entitlement has produced donors without love and recipients without gratitude

How's that strike your heart how's that strike my heart so Entitlement is never good.

So if we're producing entitlement We're probably producing angry bitter entitled people.

Yeah, so that's something I don't want to be behind This culture has become an entitlement culture.

Mm -hmm. That's one of the root issues Root issues of what? Well the fact that we've left our biblical foundations as a country.

Let me share a verse with you Yeah Proverbs 28 5. What was the one we did for Daniel 12 memorized?

This would be another good memory verse Everybody we've got to memorize Proverbs 28 5

Evil men do not understand justice But those who seek the

Lord Understand it completely. Mm -hmm evil men do not understand justice

There's no sense of right and wrong that governs choices, right? But those who seek the

Lord understand it completely Completely we have the ability through Scripture to understand not just questions of sexual morality but Economics today we're talking about economics and all areas of life.

The Bible actually does speak to these issues of justice So the next verse in there says better is a poor man who walks isn't in his integrity

Than a rich man who is crooked in his ways I'd say something. I'm I'm I think might shock some people or they might push back on this

One of the one of the problems with the government being involved in charity is they discriminate against poor people

Very very strictly. So for example, there's there's a federal organization called

Child Protective Services in New Jersey. We call them They keep changing their names Remarketing themselves, but they used to be

Dyfus and now they're DC PMP and so a lot of a lot of people a lot of Christians think that these are good people that just help you but Adopt or foster children.

Mm -hmm But when they when they come in and do an investigation of people's homes

They will discriminate against you if you're poor and they will take your children. Hmm based on your poverty

I've heard horror horror stories about Dyfus I don't know the extent of it literally if because of mandatory reporter laws

It's a if a poor person poor people know this If a poor person's child breaks a leg or an arm.

Mm -hmm They were literally take the child home first make sure they're as clean as possible and get them in Good clothes before taking them to the emergency room.

Oh, wow, because they're so afraid they are what will happen They know what happened so so this goes to you know

So the question of how did how did the government get so involved in charity?

Historic historically, right? Well, I have queued up for us a clip that I want to show you guys today that I think is a turning point in American history now by turning point

It's not so drastic as if there wasn't something that preceded it, but it was a watershed moment that has completely

Wrecked entire swaths of American culture, right? so if you go all the way back to the early 1900s, you already have government beginning to step in and Do like overreach, right?

William Jennings Bryan pushed a lot of those from the Democratic platform Then it gets really bad under FDR with the

New Deal and government's taking on a larger and larger share in society But the president that brought us over that precipice the watershed president was

Lyndon Johnson And I'm going to show you a clip from him from a speech. He gave at Howard University in 1965 okay, because it's where he was beginning to introduce what he called the

Great Society and The concept of the Great Society is that government?

will now be involved in equaling out the outcomes of People's economic future not just giving equal rights, but equal outcomes

Let me play this for us You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying now

You are free to go where you want and do as you desire And choose the leaders you please

You do not take a person who for years has been hobbled by chains and Liberating bringing up to the starting line of a race and then say you are free to compete with all the others and Still justly believe that you have been completely fair thus

It is not enough Just to open the gates of opportunity All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates

This is the next and the more profound stage of the battle for civil rights

We seek not just freedom but opportunity We seek not just legal equity but human ability

Not just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact

And equality as a result What did

American pastors say about that? fact that evidently American pastors had become so pietist that they said very little now

There was at that time the rise of the moral majority majority, but that doesn't happen for about 10 or 15 years later

So when Jerry Falwell and and all of the conservatives began to speak out politically that happens in the mid 70s and through the 80s

But in 1965 there just wasn't enough moral outrage about what

Lyndon Johnson just said Okay, so this is so I think I asked you about this before and I got it wrong so I'll ask you again

In this context, so this is where I thought the fundamentalists retreated from society

Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, I would say that those who held a biblical worldview the fundamentalists Okay, we're not engaged enough at this point in history.

Yeah. Yeah, so I think so I think there's probably some people saying okay, yeah, we know that and What's wrong with you know trying to make people

Lift people up, you know, we say it. Yeah at the end close of our show if you see a brother down lift them up What's wrong?

What's wrong with lifting? It's so clearly different what they're saying from what we're saying.

What they're saying is that the government Needs to extract from the people by the edge of the sword to wield the sword of government.

Okay to exact taxes, right? That's forced charity. It's not charity at all. Right? It's extracting money, which will just embitter people right by raising taxes

Yeah, and then redistributing the wealth To provide for people to bring about an equal outcome.

So this is in the Great Society This is where you see the huge urban development plans and the the housing projects in st.

Louis That just absolutely fail But government building these incredible amount of housing and providing food stamps and all kinds of government assistance where they become like Paternalistic over a group of people.

So what's wrong with that? Well, it's not charity at all. It's injustice It's taking its its

Robin Hood. It's Stealing from some to give to another whereas the church is

To be charitable out of the act of love from the heart we care for people and especially and Tim you've done some thought on this we're a family and Church kind of intersect at that point.

Yeah I think you know the main people that the church should be looking out for it says

I think it's the book of James It says this is true religion to look out for widows and orphans right to look out for them

Those people need care right? Yes, but who were the first lines? That those people should have

It's not the church is not the government. It's the family yeah, look take a deeper look and that will bring the family together and and Maybe you see that you need a father in the house.

You need a mother in the house You need to stay together to make things work and then even to so widows who are

Widows take a look at them to see what their character is and also if they're 60 years old

If they can remarry if they're younger So I think there's some qualifications

We look at at the Bible to be wise with our money to be wise with who we give it to who actually needs help

Yeah So so you're saying sounds like you're saying God established the family to do some things

Yeah, the the church to do other things and the government has its own little role and it's supposed to stay in that little role

How's the government doing stand in its little role? This is the huge problem is they they've become this behemoth that wants to do everything

Yeah, they want to provide when they're not meant to be providers there to bear the sword not in vain

Right, right Romans 13 first Peter 2. It's a very limited scope for what government is supposed to be doing.

Yeah Yeah, I've got some I've got some quotes from so so you talked about the 60s

If I can only take us back to 1831. Oh boy Do you remember a guy by the name of Polk?

P -o -l -k? Mm -hmm. So he was our 11th president and They're kind of there was a little there was a little fight going on in Congress.

He before he became president He was in Congress in 1831 and I'm gonna and so there was the mayor of Georgetown It sent a letter to the

House of Representatives Asking for relief of the poor of that city and soliciting the house to grant a donation of some wood

That was in the vaults of the Capitol for their use, right? So this was wood that was paid for with Government money.

What's government money? It's the people's it's the people but they've got this pile of wood that I would you guys aren't using that wood

That's you know, you know what? What do they say so here's what happened so James Polk was the first one to to step up he was a

Democrat from Tennessee the future 11th president of the United States and He went on to oppose the resolution of the house and offer support

He said quote the precedent of appropriating the public funds for such a purpose was a bad one

Unquote he reasoned that if they allowed this seemingly small act of chart of charity then quote

Every winter when when the snow fell or the Potomac was frozen applications would be made to Congress and members would be engaged in the dignified object of buying and Stowing wood to give to the poor

District of Columbia unquote So Polk opposed this and he said because they do not have the power the

House of Representatives was not given the authority To distribute anything right?

It's not theirs. Like I can't say to you right? Uh, hey you need some wood Tim give me your wood

I'm ready. I'm gonna give Jeff your wood. You're right with that, right? No, I wouldn't be okay.

Right? Well, that's my brother. I probably you might want to leave that would be your charity Joe tries to take your wood.

I Basically, that would be you stealing for me to give to Jeff. Well, you know for me you're taking that blessing of me

Being able to just help my brother. Well, not only that he might have not just a material need But he may also have a spiritual need so if you can give them directly every everything is so important You can't just yeah, there's

I mean even in even in 1st Timothy chapter 5 It says honor widows who are truly widows

So you have to look and actually see are they true? Do they truly need help is there someone else that can help them or you know?

We just gonna give them money. They don't need I like that like that book when helping hurts Yeah, you become part of the problem when you think you're helping

I like that verse so one of the things that happened in the 60s in the Great Society is they started

Incentivizing women to be single and and pregnant and have children. Yeah, because they got funds from the government

Yeah, whenever I hear that verse it always makes me think When I hear someone says they're and this is no offense to single mothers who were abandoned by men or something

But I always have to ask how'd you become single right is 80 % of the time when when people get?

Separated the woman is shoot is the one that left Oh wow, and I believe it's because of feminism and our culture is promoting the idea that motherhood is bad

Mm -hmm. You don't want to be pregnant. That's nothing worse than having a bunch of kids around the house

You need a job. You need to go work in corporate America. Come on do a program. That's the biggest disservice

I think we're doing to women. I mean, I don't know about you guys I find it way more attractive than a woman if she wants to Be a good wife if she wants to raise children if she wants children if she wants to keep the house if she wants to Be at home.

Yeah, I think that's really God's design I read it is so attractive to me, but the world

I don't know I think even women are like they don't see that as fulfilling well I read an article about how liberal women are really upset because the only

Datable guys that they're finding are conservative Like the only masculine men they can find are conservative they're all man.

Well, there's a reason for this Marriages being devalued why

I get married a lot of people right I tell guys all the time. I'm like if you're a woman's not in the

Bible every day What the heck do you think it don't even bother getting married and if you're not in the Bible? Why do you want to get married?

Yeah, you know, but also people are afraid of An adult commitment, you know, they don't want to make a commitment

Which I think marriage you probably disagree Joe, but I still think marriage is a good thing In the world,

I'm married twice Yeah, I'm just saying believers, you know marriage great for believers, but even for unbelievers, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Yeah, yeah, it is it is but I'll tell you what Sophie Oh, I want to go back to what you're saying about women who who want to have a family the women

I as an older fella, I've met a lot of women who later in life had one child and And They're sad that they didn't have more

They can't go back in time and they had that one child and and they looked at life

I'm like, why did I spend the first 15 years trying to make some career? They didn't make me happy didn't fulfill me in the way

God designed me right this God did design them man If I if God made me to make babies,

I'd have lots of them Actually, someone just gave my my fiance advice.

I think they were Asking her like are you gonna have kids when you're married to try to have kids?

Are you gonna just have time for yourself? You know or in time, you know what I mean doing and living your life and then she was like no

I won't have kids right away. She's like, well, don't you want to live your life? And she's like I've been doing that for 30 years Yeah Yeah, it's it's a blessing to fill that quiver, right?

Yeah Yeah I think the most beautiful thing is when the man as the head of the home provider protector

Is out front leading in making money working in industry and there's a way for her to come and help that business

And be active as that Proverbs 31 woman. That's the most beautiful design I think that's how it was so often in like in ancient times, right when when he was a farmer

She was doing so many chores that made his work more successful and around the house

But also part of the actual industry making money working with their hands But it's a there's a teamwork in that where it's his headship, but she's a support to that.

That's a that's a perfect thing. Yeah I've read about that the Industrial Revolution Really really put a strain on families because you learned how to work together all day long

Yeah, dad the kids out in the farm. Yeah planting so and reaping Yeah, and and now you know, we're gone

Now she's off working for a different boss a different head different authority in her life and then she comes home and complains to her husband about how terrible this boss is how much better if there could be a way to To work as a team right with his headship and his leadership in that business

I mean if that can be done, that's it's not always the case Yeah, you know you're living in the culture in which you live You got to be in the world not of it

But if you can make that ideal go for it That sounds like another good podcast at some point to talk about leaving corporate

America and and and be more entrepreneurial But we yeah, we had a more entrepreneurial everything

Yeah, and now but that's another thing that the government's taken away is the ability to be an entrepreneur

Right now even that you know, you see you see the the articles about kids with lemonade stands.

Like where's your oh, yeah Where's your sales permit kid? You getting off a permit? What are you doing? So what can we as a church?

Advocate and say or do To move this culture back to where it should be.

Should we speak out about these things? Should we talk about you know, those who seek the Lord understand justice completely?

What can we say and do how can churches move this needle in the right direction? Well, I think you do a great job.

Just just as you know, I've noticed as I've watched you preach It's um, you know, whatever that the admonition is from Scripture You you like to highlight the opposite that comes out of the culture, right, you know

Yeah, so I see these things because we don't see them. Yeah, we're just like oh, well, that's the way it's always been

Yeah, you know one thing I think we need to say and we can say it in this podcast to everybody listening that big

Government is not just like okay. Well, some people want a little bigger other smaller

It's just where are you on the scale? No big deal, right big government is evil evil. It is evil

It's where the government is doing What hurts people and against their charter and in a way that is destructive so we have to oppose big government

So teach people that that that's not just some you know Just this way or that way kind of I mean left or I lean right?

No, this what's happening in the culture is the government has become just this monster Yeah, and we've got to reduce the size of government and we've got to know our history if we don't know our history

To it so you brought up the 60s I brought up 1831, but the Constitution, you know A lot of times the the left will attack the founding fathers and they'll attack.

Well those old guys. What do they know? Well, you know what everything that they designed in the

Constitution didn't wasn't created by them They weren't really I mean there were 700 years prior

We go back to us 1100 that the 1100 Charter of Liberties that came even before You know the the

Magna Carta right Magna Carta was the enforcement of that and and and those in the 1100

I'm not just doing this from memory. So it's wrong I'll put a correction up but from the 1100 Charter of Liberties had three big precedents

I think there was a king who was coming in and he needed he was not popular and he needed to do something to Establish his his his reign or he might have been kicked out

And one of the things he did was he said government is Always under the law.

Yeah. Yeah, that's rule of law That's right. That's Rex So and he also established that the church was free that any kind of government

Intervention into the church was wicked and evil shouldn't happen. Yeah, and it was happening under his brother

That's right. His brother was the king. Okay, he took over and they suspected that he might kill his brother Yeah, so anyway, but he volunteered all day all these things the other thing they did that's very very

Common in our culture. He said it's evil if a government if a government is

Forcing you to pay money to get your inheritance from your father. Yeah, that's tax.

Yep We could enable it never happened, but the founding fathers were going all the way back there and and all that stuff was based on Yeah, the

Bible. Yeah people think that oh, these were just this enlightened generation 1776 and then 1787 with a constitution.

No, look at who they're citing and learning from it's Blackstone That's the the legal philosopher of the day and well the judge and so many of his commentaries on law gave them

Understanding of what is right and what's wrong, but Blackstone is only learning from Scripture a

Christian man That's very much shaped by biblical law Of laws of right and wrong so very very much so it was something they're learning from Scripture Not all of it came from Scripture.

Some of it is from natural law as well because they were natural philosophers They thought that the moral code of God Was written in the world and in just common sense, you know

So you have that common sense Thomas Paine kind of strand as well And some of that does come from God that they were reasoning.

Well, yeah I think one of the biggest problems we have is that the government has its tentacles into so much

We all have economic ties. Mm -hmm to what the government does Yeah, and it can be scary to say, okay,

I need to cut that off. Right, right and You know, even things like Social Security.

Yeah, Social Security is wicked and evil, right? There's and And let me ask you this

Jeff how different Would the abortion argument be Hmm, if the government didn't have its tentacles all into medicine.

Oh Drugs. Yeah, the legalization of drugs because now we're not we're shutting down some praise

God We were shutting down some abortion clinics and part of the country not in Jersey, but other parts, right? But now you got the are you 486 bill?

Yeah and government wanting to fund that through through tax dollars I believe they are.

Yeah, some of it. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I don't know how different it would be but it's it's clear What government has become is such a huge part of the problem and that that we have to resist

Yeah, so I mean What do you think about Social Security I would take what was taken from us that that point is there they're stealing from you all your lifelong

They drain off of it. You're not getting the like if you would just invest right in a stock stock market You would have this huge return instead.

You get these peanuts on the dollar But I'll tell you what though like as a church the government tried to step in and offer us tens of thousands of dollars probably $50 ,000

After the Kovac lockdown because they caused so much harm They were sending these PPP payments or whatever to the churches and we said no we didn't want to touch the government money

Yeah turned it down because that that's not their place and we didn't want any ties, you know some future

Obligation. Well, hey you took the money. Yeah Right keep that separation so We click off on terms and conditions, oh, yeah

Well, so, all right, so let me let me just share something about Social Security I mean, are you guys on the impression that Social Security is mainly for retirement like to help people with retirement?

Mainly, I don't know. They've got the Medicaid aspect of it too. So it's welfare. Yeah. Yeah, so it is

I'm here to tell you it's something I studied a little bit It's it's it's a slush fund for all kinds of people. Oh, is it so so there's a it's all under these different titles

So title 4d is what funds the family courts? So the federal government under our

Constitution isn't supposed to get involved in certain things at the right level, right?

So what they do is they say well if you if you'll follow our template, mm -hmm, we'll give you money

Wow, we'll just it just help you guys out. What's a little help and you take a little help So what they do is so all that, you know, so family courts are different in all all the states but they're really the same when they get funded and what they do is they fund the enforcement of child support and spousal support so that the

Local government gets a percentage of whatever is paid usually 30 to 40 cents on the dollar So not out of what one spouse is paying the other and oh, by the way women pay 50 % of the time

Women are making the payments not just men making payments. Yeah, so but it's a it's it all comes from Social Security Act title 4d

Wow Yeah, it doesn't surprise me the government trying to do everything it was never commissioned by God to do everything

I mean and medicine Is the other one medicines like 30 % of the economy? I mean, do you do you think we have?

Like free medicine. I mean like do is there choices in your health care? You get to do whatever you want You get to keep your doctor

Remember that promise. Oh, yeah When Obama made that promise We thought okay.

This is a lie. Yeah Well sure enough the plan that we had our medicine our medical plan

Was eliminated under Obamacare and we lost our insurance Our thing yeah, we ended up going on MediShare which was like a

Christian cost -sharing thing Yeah, but we lost our insurance when that happened. Yeah. Well, we were missionaries in the inner city so we were relying on like the the basic and essential insurance plan and which was just insurance for Catastrophic things which is what insurance ought to be in the first place, right?

And now it's morphed into like all health care, but Obamacare made that plan illegal Yeah, because those signing up must not know what they're signing up for right and how little it covers no

We're adults. We can sign up for what we want to sign up for but Obama took that from us, but those those plans are great

I hear a lot of good things about those and I think they're basic and essential. Yeah, or MediShare MediShare. Yeah Yeah, that was very good.

Yeah, and a lot of them are based on some of them are based on you You have to be a

Christian in order to yes. Yeah, and then they don't support things that support abortion and whatnot, right?

I mean you asked what can the church do? I mean, you know, I assume you didn't mean the pastors only no

But sure I was talking everybody church Can come up with ways for us to have our own

Economy. Yeah within the economy. Yeah to help us wean off of The government's yes, what we need is a candidate like melee in Argentina Who comes in and says?

The government will do almost nothing. Yeah, just I mean cut government down to size

Yeah, and so if we have a candidate like that even at the state level, you know Congress people that understand

Justice right and would like to see government do less in terms of just throwing money out willy -nilly, right?

Those are the kind of people we need to support. I wonder what you think about this I've heard I've heard good arguments, but I think

I think they're pretty good arguments I've heard arguments that you can't just cut everything off because you're gonna hurt.

Yeah, right that that Unwillingly participated and did what they thought was the right thing.

Yeah, right But at the same time we've got to cut it off. Yeah, we're participating in evil

Frederick Douglass when asked what the government should do for reparations and things like that He said how about this do nothing?

Booker T Washington Washington had the same attitude right but government like Lyndon Johnson in that same

Howard speech when he's talking about the Three -leg race and you've gotten shackled for the first he's saying no

They're gonna need you to come alongside and make things equal Which is really to to disesteem people like it's it's really racist is what it is

Actually if you watch that whole speech he is so racist The most ridiculous thing.

Well, I've only heard racist people use that analogy That was he was the first to popularize

Was that Howard speech? Yeah, and I've even seen church leaders that we would know. Yeah, I'm promoting that same argument

Yeah, which is not the same in any sense. Was that a historically black college? Yeah, yeah

Yeah, so he probably was pandering yeah Opposite like it was yeah, but also that makes no sense because I mean when black lives matter were happening that was like one of the main arguments, but like You're saying you have to you know

Give more to all black people, but not all black people have the same situation Circumstances and not all white people have are you know have white privilege or whatever?

Right, you know, yeah, what about the poor? Look black and black people look white.

Well, that goes back to Plessy versus Ferguson in the 1890s when a racist decision about Arthur Plessy he was he had 116th

African American descent from his grandparents and he wanted to sit in the white coach

And he was told that he couldn't because he had 116th African American blood one judge

Dissented to that opinion and said how do you even distinguish who's white and who's black? He is like and so that their argument from that point on was just one drop, you know

He's black because he has just one drop Well that led to so much of the segregation and all of the the problems of the 1960s a

Jim Crow laws How do you know just one drop and to this day affirmative action? How do you determine

Elizabeth Warren trying to claim? She's Native American Why do black people have the drop and white people don't even have a drop, right?

I mean, yeah, I do they have a drop but we don't have a draw. That's what I'm saying Elizabeth Warren was one 132nd

American Indian and she tried to claim. I'm the first Native American But where's the one where is the water?

Yeah, where's the line? I actually I was a I was sitting at Karen one time at lunch with some friends back when

I went to Karen and We were talking about I don't know how it came up But the one drop rule came up like because my one friend is half white half black and then

I think someone had asked him What do you consider yourself to be white or black? And it was like well, I don't

I don't know I'm half and then like a black girl answered for him and said he's black one drop rule

And then yeah, and then someone said you should know you're you know, your fiance is yeah half black and I was like, yeah

Well, she says she's you know, both white and black though. Yeah. Well, she's lying. She's racing so judge

Harlan was that judge in Plessy versus Ferguson and Clarence Thomas who's one of the probably him and a leader of the only two good justices we have but he cited that case

When he's arguing against affirmative action, he said the the Constitution law justice is colorblind

Because you can't distinguish these things treat people by the content of their character not the color of their skin

It's just a simple thing matters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he said. Hey, man,

I'm half Irish quarter Polish quarter Hungarian I'm gonna tell you my Hungarian relatives in the summertime. I got the

Irish skin, but my sister got the Hungarians. Oh She could be something. Oh, yeah Vacation Bible school at one time.

Yeah, I'm not it's not shades of black and white, but we're all shades of brown Yes, you really look at it. We all come from Adam and Eve I like that Shades of brown from dark to light each is precious in the sight.

Yeah, red and yellow black and white. Yes Yeah, I like Bode Bachman says

I don't look down at you just because you lack melanin. Yeah Just cuz you're less like me, you know, it's crazy, but you know, look government causes all these problems and You know,

I don't know what we're gonna do. We're gonna talk a lot about this in a lot of different scenarios I mean because it impacts so many things and I think you know

We do we do we talk a lot about abortion and we talk a lot about different things and and the culture

I mean, we don't we need control. We got to get control back of our own lives Well just to tie this together with the conversation as it moved towards race

There's a book by Shelby Steele called white guilt Okay, and he traces the disparities of outcome between the different ethnic groups in our culture

To that 1965 Lyndon Johnson speech and when government came in tried to Gerrymander things.

Yeah, they ended up creating the very disparities that we see today so it's not a result or a legacy of slavery or Jim Crow but really because the the different racial groups in America were

Evening out before 1965 What happened in 1965 a giant welfare state where the government stepped in and tried to be the the parent?

Rather than doing what it was called to do the Great Society caused the disparities that we're seeing.

Yeah. Do you think we're seeing? You know enough people enough people know Well, no because like how popular was this

Joe Biden idea of forgiving student debt, you know Anytime there's another big government government initiative to give away money or reparations

It seems like maybe a majority of the culture goes along with that But I think there are a lot of people that are opening their eyes to see all right, well, that's it pastor

Jeff has called it That's that's a show. We're very grateful that you showed up here today Don't forget to send in your red

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