Renee Esquerra Interview (2023)

Compromise Radio Ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth and I'm enjoying our new intro music on the RODECaster Pro 2. Very thankful for that. Glad. Also known as Duplex Gratia Radio. Christ for pardon. Christ for power.

Well, today in the studio, live guest. I don't know how often do I have live guests. I don't know. If I don't have live guests, I just put the music back on. There you go. Not the first time guest though.

Renee, back in the studio today. Renee Esguerra, my friend, my brother's friend, my son's friend, and my children's friends, my wife's friend. Renee, welcome back to No Compromise Radio. Thanks for having me.

This is my second time. Second time? On No Compromise Radio. Do you ever listen like between Christmas and Christmas? Once in a while you pull it up. I'll be honest. The last show that I listened was probably my friend Ryan's.

Oh, from a year ago. From a year ago. And the one before that was probably my own show with you. Well, you kind of live with No Compromise Radio Jr. in the sense, right? So your roommate's with my son, Luke.

That's right. You kind of know what's going on. We live No Compromise Radio. It's kind of like my wife. I'll say, do you ever listen to the show? And she said, why do I listen to the show? I live with the show.

There's a lot of truth in that. So Renee, if people don't remember, tell them a little bit about your background or how we met or what you're doing in life, what church you're at, what's your ethnic background.

Ethnic background. I'm from the Philippines, but, you know, we discussed in the last time I was here, friends with, and you mentioned it, I live with Luke Noko Jr. We've been friends since probably 2014 or 2015 from Masters University.

And we've been still friends to this day, thankfully. In spite of each other, right? Did you go to Israel together? Went to Israel together, fall of 2015. And very sad to miss your Israel trip this year.

So if you're not signed up, it probably is too late now. I don't know why. I think they could probably get in last second if they had the cash. It's always about the money. Cash is king. So if you have cash sitting out there.

How did you, I asked this before, but it's still interesting to me because I've forgotten maybe, and some of our listeners have. Succinctly, how did you make it from the Philippines to Santa Clarita and the Masters College at the time?

This is so funny. I just, I still can't believe it because it's the Lord's providence in my life. But my youth pastor in the Philippines, very faithful preacher, just very faithful to the gospel in a church where it wasn't good at all.

Just very broad evangelical. They did everything. They had robes. They would baptize babies. They would baptize adults. They did everything. But my youth pastor was faithful and I believe I got saved in his ministry.

And I was looking for a Christian college to go to after all of that. So I Googled Christian college and found Masters University. So interesting. Renee, I've never been to the Philippines. The area where you lived, was it Catholic?

Were there a lot of evangelicals there? I hear a lot about Muslim persecution in certain spots. Where were you? The Philippines as a whole is very Catholic. A lot of Spanish influence from the wars. So I would say 85, 90 Catholic.

And then a little bit of Muslim, maybe two to 3 and then others. But we know we fall under others. When was the last time you were home? Last time I was home was about five years ago. What's the first thing you eat after you greet all your relatives and see the folks that meet?

There's a lot of different things I would like to eat. I mean, from my mind, my kind of German palate, American Euro thing, you guys eat some pretty funky things, but I can embrace that. We do eat a lot of funky things and a lot of regular things too, like stews.

We eat a lot of chicken and beef, just your normal, probably Spanish style food. What would be the weirdest thing for someone like me to come and eat that you would think is just normal? We talked about it, but it's called Balut.

If you were a fan of Fear Factor, Joe Rogan, the old days. Oh, that was so good. I think my worst Fear Factor episode that I watched was when they had to eat the bowl of live leeches and Joe Rogan said, if you don't chew everyone up to kill it, it'll latch onto your stomach.

I thought that is Fear Factor. What will people do for money? Anyway, we're not here to talk about that, but I wanted to give a little intro for Rene in case you forgot when he was on the show last time, last year, same time, same batch.

I think maybe two years ago. So in front of you, Rene, you've got a book and I want to talk about this book today because it's such a good book. I know I have the Bible, of course, that's the best book, but there's another book about the Bible and you're reading what?

The Treatise on Law Gospel by John Cahoon. I want to make sure I didn't get that wrong. If you're a Scottish speaker, you know it's Cahoon, K-A-H-O-O-N phonetically, but how do you spell it for us Westerners?

C-O-L-Q-U-H-O-U-N. John Cahoon. I first learned maybe about John Cahoon through Sinclair Ferguson. How'd you learn about him? Twitter, the Twitter world. Seriously. Now you tweet once in a while some soccer stuff, football, and some theological stuff, right?

Those are probably the only two things I tweet about. Gavin Newsom, do you tweet about him? Every once in a while, but he hasn't really been bothering me, so. All right. So, you are reading the book, Law Gospel, and our listeners would understand that law is due, gospel is done, right?

And when we think about gospel in general terms, maybe you think Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Strictly speaking, it's about Jesus and what he has done, who he is, his promises, his love. It's about the Lord.

Good news. Law, we have different kinds of law. We have moral law, we have civil law, we have ceremonial law, and we have different uses of the law to show people their sin and misery so that they might look for a savior, to guide Christians, et cetera.

So, what are you picking up? Any quotes that you want to read or ask me about, or this is live radio at its finest. We're here to talk about Law Gospel, John Cahoon. You already mentioned it. I actually just read that part about the gospel in its general sense, like Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

And it's distinct from the gospel in its strict sense. And it's so helpful. I think a lot of the, some of the new guys that I'm reading, they always distinguish. And that has been one of the most helpful things for me, just even reading the Bible, distinguishing between, particularly this book that we're talking about, the law and the gospel, but even within the gospel, the idea of the gospel, distinguishing between the general sense of the gospel and the strict sense of the gospel.

And, you know, distinguishing between the different types of laws, like you mentioned, moral law, ceremonial law, et cetera. So, distinction, I think, has been kind of a key word in my life, just thinking about things of the Lord.

And I'm sure for a lot of the listeners too. Well, Rene, when I just pull up Bible verses and I say to myself, I'm just going to read this for face value because God wrote it. It's important for us. And I read at the end of Ecclesiastes, the end of the matter, all has been heard.

Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment with every secret thing, whether good or evil. And if I don't have those categories of first use of the law, second use of the law, third use of the law, I read that and I think, this is pretty scary.

This is, I mean, okay, fear God. Let's even use that one. There's two kinds of fear, because if we understand the law distinctions, strictly speaking, then we say to ourselves, well, the law is given to the unbeliever to show them their sin and misery.

The law is given to the son, the adopted son who's in Christ to guide. And we ought not to confuse the two. Have you sat under preaching, Rene, that kind of confuses the two and you as a Christian are thinking, I didn't know if I'm even saved.

I mean, he tells me every deed is going to be brought into judgment and then what? Yep. I think most of my Christian life, I listened to preaching in that way and didn't have the categories to help myself distinguish between those.

And it's debilitating, it's discouraging when you hear all of these things and you think to yourself, there's no way, there's no way for me to fear God with all my heart and do it the way that I'm supposed to do, I'm ought to do.

Well, Rene, that's probably an area where we're different because you were talking about discouraging and it's disappointing. You didn't say the word depressing, but I could use that word. For me, when I, in the old days, would look at law without any categories, here's what God expects out of the law.

Okay. Let's use husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church. I look at that law, love. By the way, love is a law, right? Love is a law. Two great laws, love God, love neighbor. And I would look at that and me, my default is because of my sin, I'm not blaming anyone, blaming myself.

I think I actually could do it. So it breeds this self-righteousness in this pride where my mental machinations and calculations go like this. I don't look at pornography. I don't cheat on my wife. I'm faithful to my wife.

I work every day and provide for her. You're feeling pretty good about yourself. I know. Self-sacrificial love. She wants to go to dance class. I don't want to, but I go anyway. And the list goes... Now I like to go.

And the list goes on and on and on. But other people, they see the law. And I have a friend, you know the friend, and he reads husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and is honest with himself and says, if this is what it means to be a Christian, that I have to love God like Christ loved the church.

I'm not a Christian because I'm honest with myself. I don't do that. So instead of seeing husbands love your wives as a third use for sons that guide us, that norm our behaviors and chase it. And if we disobey, certainly, that's a lot different than if you don't love your wife 24 seven perpetually, it's over.

What do you think of that? I agree. And you're single, by the way. I am single. By the way, this is a PSA for the No Compromise listeners, the young single ladies out there. If you have a big dowry, Renee is available.

Solana Beach, there you go. Solana Beach, California, North County, San Diego. California's best kept secret. Now for the no core world to know that North County is nice. I know. I'm usually on here shilling for missionaries that need support, right?

And then now it's like single guys. He who finds a wife finds a good thing. You gotta go ask, right? That's true. No, but going back to what your experience about feeling like you can do it and for others feeling like they can't do it, that just reminded me of the whole Christ-Sinclair-Ferguson.

It's not really so much a spectrum, but it's both a misunderstanding of the gospel because one says, I can do it. You're lowering the standard of the law of perfection. And then the other, you're not really trusting in the gospel and what it can do and what Christ has accomplished.

So both, it's not so much that you have to kind of balance it between the two and you have to mix it, but it's both a misunderstanding of the gospel. Rene, so true. Today we're talking on No Compromise Radio with Rene Esguerra from Solana Beach via the Philippines and Masters College.

When I watch people preach the law in such a way that they're using the law unlawfully, they're preaching to Christians with the first use, trying to show them their sin and misery and how they can't call themselves Christians, if I could put it that way.

Really, you know what that does? And I know you believe this. It actually lowers the law. It makes the law achievable. It makes the law, oh, I actually can do this because I'm preaching to these Christians with the first use of the law and you better love her like Christ loved the church.

But that's an impossible thing to do. But then they make it seem like, oh, it is possible. And then my question is, well, how much do I have to do? And the answer is usually whatever the celebrity Christian tells you, right?

How much do I have to desire God in order to be saved? Well, whatever Piper says, then that's the answer. How much? How often? Right. How well? Right. Remember that book, The Almost Christian Discovered?

It's a Puritan book by Matthew Mead. And that's one of the books that has reminded me, Rene, that just because they're Puritan doesn't mean they're good. Right? There's a lot of Puritan names that we can name off.

I know. And I kind of think to myself, well, if Big Eva has some good folks, which they do, and they have some bad folks, which they do in terms of their theology, well, it's the same for the Big Eva Puritans, right?

They were Big Eva back then. And so, Matthew Mead, did you know in his book, Almost Christian Discovered, he says there's two kinds of people in this world, the almost Christian and the altogether Christian.

And so, Rene, I'd like to ask you here on national radio, this is worldwide radio, are you an altogether Christian? You have your life altogether, or are you an almost Christian? Altogether almost Christian.

Excuse me. Well, this goes back to these things we harp on all the time because they're so important for assurance. If you stand before God, you better stand before Him in perfection, perfectly obeying.

That's the ground to your salvation. So, that should tell us right away, it can't be our works, it should be the Lord's. And then when God saves us, and He does all kinds of things, regenerates us, the Spirit's in us, then we start showing fruits and evidences.

But we can't make our fruits and evidences how we stand before God, right? That's right. You sound like you don't like the law. Well, I with the psalmist say, oh, how I love thy law. Amen. I just don't like when people use the law unlawfully.

So, here's how I think about the law, Rene. It's not floating around out there ethereally, abstractly, ozone-ly. It's a reflection of God's nature and character. God is holy and righteous and just, therefore His law reflects His essence, and it is it, the law is holy, righteous, and just.

And therefore, how could I ever say the law is bad, or I don't like the law? It's a reflection of who God is. But it's how we use the law. And if I say to Luke, take out the trash, and he doesn't, well, he might be disciplined, I might just have displeasure, and he doesn't even like that, but I don't kick him out of the family.

That's third use. I discipline him, I chasten him, I rebuke him, or whatever. But first use is, you didn't take out the trash, out you go. And I hear preaching like that, and I know this for a fact, and I could recognize it, because I did it.

My friends tell me, the congregants here tell me, and I didn't really do it that much, but I think I did it more often than not, always putting people under that Damocles sword. Are you really a Christian?

How can you live like that and call yourself a Christian? And then what did I do? I turned communion, the Lord's Supper, into, are you sure you're a Christian? How can the Lord use somebody like us when we said so many dumb things?

And by the way, truth be told, and just a pastoral exhortation on No Compromise Radio, do I like it when there are pastors out there and preachers who just use the law for Christians and put them back underneath a covenant of works, if it were possible, to quote Clark?

No, I don't like that. But they're inconsistent often. God still blesses the word when they talk about Jesus and justification and the Holy Spirit. God blesses that. And so, I've seen God bless my ministry even when I was glossable.

That doesn't give me a reason to do it, but before we just torch everyone in this world for theological mistakes, I'm thankful that the Lord used me. Praise the Lord for that. Wow. Here's a little quote from John Cahoon on distinction and categories.

The great design of God in giving this law in the hand of Christ to his people is not that by their obedience to it, they may procure for themselves a right to eternal life, but that it may direct and oblige them to walk worthy of their union with Christ, of their justification in him, of their legal title to and begun possession of life eternal, and of God himself as their God in him.

That is awesome. That is awesome. I think you should promote that book. It is reprinted by what, Reformation? I think Reformation Heritage Press. It's on the back. If Joel Beeky introduced it, it's A, it has to be good, and B, it has to be Reformation Heritage.

There it is. Reformation Heritage Books, Grand Rapids, Michigan. All right. If you guys are listening, maybe you can help us with some nice free books. In the past, I've received books from different publishers.

One of the things I have to do, though, if they send them, then I have to read them and then I have to talk to the author. Or you can just gift them to us. Right. In this particular case, I don't have to interview the author because John Cahoon's been dead for quite a while.

One of the most fascinating things that the Merrow men did, and Cahoon picks up on that, because I think Cahoon, isn't he 1700s? So, he's past the Merrow men. Let me just double check. Yeah, 1748 to 1827.

So, he's beyond the Merrow men by 100 years or so. He still uses language that Boston and the Merrow men used, the Erskines, the law from the hand of Christ. Since Christ, for Christians, is an elder brother, captain, savior, friend.

When that savior of your sins gives you a law, what's he going to give you the law for? You better do this and obey or you're going to be damned. Well, he's your friend because he's loved you and paid for all your sins.

So, the one that's paid for all your sins, no condemnation, can never stand before God's tribunal to be judged for any sin. It's all been paid for. And you also get the merit of Christ under the law. He, Jesus, obeying the law.

Then if he, Jesus, gives you a law, how could it be for condemnation? It's going to be to guide you. Now, back to that law floating around out there, detached from God, wrong scenario. Since God never changes, and since he's always holy and righteous and just, and his law is always holy and righteous and just, the law doesn't change, but our relationship to the lawgiver changes.

And that's the key, from the hand of Christ. Just imagine, Jesus, the savior, you're on earth, and he is on earth back in the Bible days, 2000 years ago, and he says to you, like the paralytic, your sins are forgiven.

Of course, everybody freaks out. How can you say that? That's blasphemy. And Jesus says, which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or rise and walk? Well, they're both as easy to say, because it's the same.

So, he did both. Right. So, here's your sins are forgiven, rise and walk. Now, that paralytic says to Jesus, okay, what would you like me to do now? And let's say he doesn't obey perfectly. What's Jesus going to say?

Well, your sins were forgiven, now they're not forgiven. He'd say, well, there's discipline, there's chastisement, but I've eternally loved you, and you're forgiven now in time, and there are consequences.

And that's why we have Proverbs and other things, even Proverbs, my son, my son, my son, my son. It's a dad talking to a son, and he never says, if you do this, you can no longer have my name. I was going to say last name, but I don't think Solomon had a last name.

Last names didn't happen, I think, until medieval times. Bar David? Oh, that's interesting. I was thinking, what's the Hebrew word for Solomon? Do you remember? Shlomo. I just love that. Shlomo. I'll never forget, because our bus driver's name in all three months in Israel was Shlomo.

I have to push some button right now. How long have you been on that medication? Shlomo. As funny as he was slow, so Shlomo was an appropriate name for him. Shlomo. Okay. Oh, like slow-mo. All right.

When you preach to people who are unbelievers, do you give them the law? You preach the law to unbelievers? You have to. Yeah, absolutely. It shows them their sin and misery and their reason for a Savior.

But preaching the law isn't the gospel, right? We have to get to the good news. I know some preachers, and maybe we have some folks that are open-air preachers listening. If you just continue to say, repent, turn or burn, run, flee for the wrath that's coming, that's not the gospel.

Can you say those things? Which is easier to say? Of course, you can say those things. Fine. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbors yourself. This is what God requires of you.

Hmm. But then you're going to have to give some relief because the gospel isn't the law, and the law isn't the gospel. Both come from the same great God, but they're totally different. One is due, one is done.

I always like to say, as Christians, we don't graduate from the gospel, right? A lot of churches that we would know of probably preach a lot of law. A Sunday sermon probably would sound more like this week on how to be more patient, which it's good to learn how to be more patient.

That's practical. But if that's all you're doing as a preacher, and you're not pointing your church back to the gospel, back to Christ and who he is and what he's done, then it's not really helpful at all.

I have to steal things from certain people like Graham Goldsworthy or T. David Gordon. One of those two said, I think it's T. David Gordon in How Johnny Can't Preach or Why Johnny Can't Preach. If someone unknown to gospel language, church culture, evangelicalism, and I use this part, from Tibet comes and visits, and you say, would you come to our religious service today?

And the Tibetan person says, sure, I'll come. They sit and listen. They can understand English. You ask them after, what do you think Christianity is all about? A lot of churches, the Tibetan person would say, it's about being good.

It's about doing good things. That is not the essence of Christianity. That is not what we boil everything down to describe what our faith is. Our faith is in an object who Jesus is. And if to your statement, Renee, we tell people how to be patient because God is patient, and this is what he requires.

And since God's been so patient with us, we think about how we got saved, et cetera, et cetera. We could have got damned after our first sin. And now in light of that, you're to be patient. God's patient with people.

This is why you should be patient. And you have the spirit of God dwelling in you to actually let you be patient. Fine. But I don't want to have an unbeliever sit there and think Christianity is all about being good.

And I don't want believers to think that. Christianity at its essence is not about being good. I think about Romans, Paul's writing to the Romans, and he says, I want to come see you. And he says, I want to preach the gospel to you.

I'm eager. I'm eager. How interesting. Now, come on, Renee. Let's just think about this, not from some Europe, Eastern mindset. There's all kinds of decadence in Rome. They're going to need some help when it comes to prostitution and incest and abortion and government excess and government overreach, vaccine mandates.

And what does he say? He says, I want to preach the gospel to you. Eager. Right. And he spends all 12 chapters just talking about who they are in Christ. That's right. And then the rest, since you are in Christ, here's how you should live.

Amazing. Anything else good in the book before we wrap up this show? I'm still working on it. So... Do you listen to the Pactam? I listen to the Pactam. And you don't listen to a compromised radio. Here's my next question.

Has the Pactam ever had you on their show? I've been on the Pactam. Yeah, as like a five second blurb. We did a Q &A with the Pactam. I have Pactam gear. I don't have NoCo gear though, but I have NoCo stickers.

Yeah. But you know what? Maybe you should be my far away swag guy and you can develop some of those things. We can start making NoCo shirts and start competing with the Pactam. This show is going to air January, Tuesday, I don't know, 9th, 10th, 11th, somewhere around there.

And then off to California. I go, you'll already be in California. And then this coming Friday at 5pm, it's going to be four podcasts for a mega podcast. And we're just going to have a room. We're going to talk about the gospel, law gospel, and it's going to be Pat and the Pactam, Pat Abendroth and the Pactam.

I think Mike Grimes will be there as well. Whenever they say Pat and Mike, I'm always thinking I'm on the show. And then they think sometimes we're Irish, but just Mike and Pat, no. And then it's going to be Scott Clark and the Heidel cast.

Then it's going to be John and Justin from Theo cast. And then it's going to be myself from NoCo cast. Who's going to own the rights to that one show that you guys created? I think it's all of us together.

I think Pat's in charge, right? Scott got the venue, Pat's in charge. I'll just kind of go along. I like all those guys. They all can teach me things. I listen to all their shows and I don't have to go in.

Something about me, Renee, sometimes I walk in, I think I have to take over, but I don't have to do that there. I'll just be glad to just pass me a microphone and we'll talk about something. It would be better if you had the Roadcaster Pro 2.

You know what? It would be so much better. I see dead people. That's my Ephesians 2 button, by the way, dead and trespasses and sins. And so when you go out there in the world and you're living your life, the butcher and the baker and the male person and all that other stuff, it's like they're dead in sins.

You need to give the gospel. Or you can do that for the valley of dry bones. That's so true. Is it not? That is so good. Renee, thanks for being on No Compromise Radio. I hope in the next year you listen to at least one show that's not your own.

What is it about us? We see a picture. There's a picture of 10 people. Hey, look at this picture. And what do we do? We've got to focus in on where we are, how we do it in that picture. And I'm glad you're on the Roadcaster.

My name is Mike Ebendroth. This is No Compromise Radio Ministry. You can write us, Mike at No Compromise Radio, or if you want to talk to Spencer, info at nocompromiseradio .com. The event in Westminster, Escondido will be open to all next Friday, 5 p .m. Westminster Seminary, Escondido.

We'll see you then.