June 19, 2024 Show with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III on “Are We Salt & Light? The Roots of Apathy in the Church in America”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer

George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend

Jim Thorpe. It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 19th day of June 2024, and let me give a hearty happy birthday,

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, of course, since Brother Spurgeon is basking in the glow of the presence of Jesus Christ in eternity.

He did not hear what I just said, but today on this date, June 19th, 1835, was born the

Prince of Preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, who some have claimed is the finest preacher that ever lived in the world since the

Apostle Paul himself. So I just wanted to draw attention to the birth date of this very important figure from church history.

But today we have joining me on the program another one of my

Christian heroes, but thank God he's still alive and with us. His name is Dr. Joseph C.

Moorcraft III, Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and the author of the eight -volume commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity. And today Dr.

Moorcraft and I are going to be discussing, Are We Salt and Light? The Roots of Apathy in the

Church in America to Bring Transformation to the Culture that Surrounds Us. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, Dr.

Joe Moorcraft. It's always a pleasure, Chris, always a pleasure, really. Well, for the sake of our listeners who have not heard you on the program before, and also to remind others who have heard you many times, tell us about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

Heritage Presbyterian Church was started about 10 years ago with 25 or so people, and now we have 75, 80 or so people that come from various places all over the place.

And we have almost a full house every Sunday. And these people come because they have a hunger and a thirst for the

Word of God, not just for generically, but because they love the Reformed faith.

We are a member of the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Hanover Presbytery.

We are committed to the Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms. We're dedicated to the carrying out of the

Great Commission. We are involved in world missions. We have world mission places we support in Brazil.

We support preaching missions to Mexico. And we are looking for every opportunity that we have to preach the gospel.

We publish books. We get those books all over the world that spell out the

Reformed faith. And it's a great privilege in our lives to be a part of this church,

Heritage Presbyterian Church, just north of Atlanta, Georgia, in Cumming, Georgia, cap of the county seat of Forsyth County.

And it's a privilege to be connected with that church. Well, if anybody wants more details about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, go to HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com,

HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. If you want more details on the eight -volume commentary on the

Westminster Larger Catechism written by our guest, Dr. Joe Moorcraft, you can go to WestminsterCommentary .com,

WestminsterCommentary .com. And for all the books that Dr.

Moorcraft has written and that Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, puts into print, go to ComprehensiveChristianity .com,

ComprehensiveChristianity .com. Well, today we have a very provocative theme.

I believe it's an important one. And the theme, as I mentioned at the outset of the program, are we salt and light the roots of apathy in the church in America to bring transformation to the culture that surrounds us.

And perhaps you could start, Dr. Moorcraft, with why this topic was laying so heavy on your heart that you wanted to highlight it as our theme today.

It's important to me because you can't live life without theology.

You can't think about anything without theology. And if you have the wrong theology, then everything else about your life is going to be messed up.

And we have in America today, and have had for 200 years, theology that has been compromised.

And most evangelical Christians are not even aware of it.

But there is a verse in Jeremiah that says this, that, this is a paraphrase, that Israel started going off on the wrong track at the very beginning of the life of Jerusalem.

This is not something that fell upon her late in life. But Israel and Judah began going in the wrong direction from the very start.

And your theology will flavor everything else about you. The word theology is made up of two

Greek words, as I'm sure all your hearers know. Theos means God.

Lagos is a word, a word about God, what God has said about himself in the pages of Holy Scripture.

And there's not just one theology. There's all kinds of theologies. And all of them are wrong, except for the one that has been revealed in Holy Scripture.

We have had wars fought because we had the wrong theology.

We have had corruption, confusion, disunity, because we've had the wrong theology.

People don't realize that we'll go back to the war between the states.

The war between the states was fought because America had fallen into the trap of a false theology, that it fell into the trap of believing in Unitarianism.

And Unitarianism is a theology that has a very clear political implication.

And it was because Americans failed to understand what the implication of that theology was, that we fought a civil war and had thousands upon thousands of people die.

Unitarianism is a theology. It was transplanted here in this country in the very late 18th century.

And it does not believe that there is a book of revelation from God.

It does not believe in the Trinity. It does not believe that man is basically evil.

It believes that man is basically good, and he can be perfected.

And the way he can be perfected is by politics. So you had

Unitarianism take root in the North, and it spread all over the

North very quickly. And the great reformed churches that were once in New England faded away pretty quickly.

And Unitarianism had a political philosophy that said, since man is basically good, and since man is perfectible, then he can be perfected by two things.

He can be perfected by a state -controlled, compulsory education system, where the state can determine everything that the children believe, in fact, where the state lays claim on the children's mind and children's future.

And it believes that society can be controlled by the federal government, socialism, in other words.

The South still believed largely in Christianity, wasn't perfect.

It believed in a constitutional limited government because it believed that only

God was sovereign. It believed that because man is a sinner, that civil government must be limited.

There must be checks and balances. When you elect a man to office, don't trust him because he's a sinner.

And so the South was the great influence for limited government, constitutional government, based upon general

Christian principles. And the North could not reach its goals of socialism and compulsory education state -supported until it could break the back of the

Christian influence in the South. And so even though there were various side issues like controlling the

Mississippi River, tariffs, sectionalism, slavery, all of those were, in fact, secondary issues.

Because the real issue was what theology is going to be the one by which we interpret life and create a society in this country.

One of the very best books that I know of on that subject, unless you think

I'm exaggerating, is a book called

The Theological Interpretation of American History. It's not difficult to read.

It's three or four hundred pages long. It was written by a dear old friend of mine named

Greg Singer. Who was a gentleman and a scholar in the best sense of those words.

And he wanted to show people how various theologies throughout the history of the

United States have shaped the way we look at things, the way we respond to things.

It has, as I said before, determined whether or not we're going to have wars or not. Are we going to fight in this war?

Are we going to start a war over here? How are we going to organize society? That all of those issues that we have faced for over 200 years in this country, how we face them has been determined by theologies that have been predominant throughout our history.

So I go to Amazon .com, The Theological Interpretation of American History.

I will have to say I disagree with him in the introduction. I can say this. I do have to disagree with him in the introduction.

I believe that the Declaration of Independence had more Christian influence on it than he did.

He believed that it was shaped more by the Enlightenment and humanism. But I think that the

Declaration, as well as the Constitution, were both greatly, predominantly influenced by Reformed theology.

But anyway, Theological Interpretation of American History. If you get your theology wrong, everything else is going to be wrong.

The Bible says in the book of Proverbs, those who hate me love death.

If we have a different view of God than God's view of himself, and we worship another

God as a source of truth than the triune

God of Holy Scripture, then we will be death -oriented. And that's what we see in our country today.

Our people are basically idolatrous. By and large, they worship another

God than the triune God of Holy Scripture. And so everything we do is oriented toward death.

We're death -oriented. Life is cheap. If you don't believe that, ask several million unborn babies that have been murdered.

You ask, why do we make the economic decisions that we make, which destroys an economy and thereby destroys family?

Those who hate me love death. So we cannot escape having a

Theological Interpretation of American History and of ourselves. And if we get the theology wrong, we'll be oriented toward death in our politics, in our families, in our economics, and in everything else we do.

Amen. Now, you just mentioned moments ago that one of the great failures of Unitarian dominance that corrupted the

Christian Church by name, that is—we don't believe Unitarians are

Christians—but that even corrupted the Ivy League schools and so on.

One of the great reasons for their failure is that they were looking to a political savior.

Now, I find that quite interesting, because time and time and time again, my listeners who are not post -millennial or Theonomic or Reconstructionist will say, uh, why do you have so many

Theonomists on your program? They are looking to a political savior for this nation and the world.

And I keep reminding them that that is not true, just because you believe that a

Christian's participation in politics is important, and your belief that Christians must be involved in every sphere of life in the world to transform every sphere of life, whether it be theology, whether it be education, whether it be arts, music, and on and on and on we go—entertainment, etc .—transformed

for the glory of God. That is not looking to a political savior, is it?

No, not at all. That's what many conservatives look for, and that's what all liberals look for, and that is a political savior who can make people good by passing laws, and they look to legislation.

But that's not what we believe at all. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only—to quote our catechism—that

Jesus Christ is the only Redeemer of God's elect. He's the Savior of the world.

He's the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Him. There is no other name under heaven given among men how we must be saved than the name

Jesus Christ. He is the only Savior. Law cannot save us from sin by obeying laws.

If you're going to go the way of obeying laws to get saved, then you've got to be perfect, because the law of God demands perfection, and all the law of God can do is command and condemn.

It cannot make a bad man good—this is a great quote by Lloyd -Jones—it can't make a bad man good, and it can't make a good man better.

Those are works only of the Holy Spirit. So then what can the law do? What's the use of it?

Well, to put it simply in the words of the 119th Psalm, it can sustain life.

It can enhance life. It can, when we obey the law of God, life is better than when we live in rebellion against Him.

Yet that's the truth for individuals, or for families, or for nations, that the law of God drives people out of their sinful selves, drives people away from believing that they can be saved any other way.

But in the Lord Jesus Christ, the law drives us to Christ, and then when the

Holy Spirit opens our hearts to receive Christ, Christ puts the law of God back in our hands.

And he says, now that you understand that Christ has removed that condemnation that a disobeyed law had over your head, now to be his friends, he wants you to obey it.

And so we say, well, how in the world can we obey the law of God?

Good question. New Testament was written to answer that question. I love the first four verses of the chapter of Romans.

It says, There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

For the Spirit of life has set us free from the spirit of death.

And what we could not do because of the sinful flesh, God did, by sending his

Son into human flesh, to be the one that bears the consequences of our sins and to lay down his life as a sacrifice at our place.

And then there's a great word in the first part of the fourth verse that says, here's the reason he did all that.

Here's the reason that he sent his Holy Spirit to set us free from the spirit of sin and death.

Here's the reason he sent his Son into the world to lay down his life as a sacrifice for sinners.

And here's the phrase, in order that. There's the purpose.

That's the purpose for which God sent his Son into the world. In order that the requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us.

Now, what's the requirement of God's law? Obedience. Holiness of life.

Righteousness. Christlikeness. And God sent his

Son into the world so that that requirement of righteousness and obedience might be fulfilled in our lives.

We'll never do it perfectly in this life. You say, well, how can we do it at all?

Well, the fourth verse says that if we walk by the spirit, not by the flesh. That if we live by the power of the

Holy Spirit, depending upon the Holy Spirit in our lives and not depend upon the sinful flesh, then we will be able to obey

God's law as we continue to depend upon him. So those are four great verses.

And those are the spearhead of Christian reconstruction. Now, what

I mean by Christian reconstruction is seeking to rebuild and reconstruct and reform every area of life in terms of the law of God, starting with the human heart and the spearhead.

People often get confused, as you pointed out, and think that what we're talking about primarily is politics.

And that Christian reconstruction is primarily concerned with politics and getting the right person elected and getting the right laws passed.

And all of those things are involved. But the spearhead, the tip of the spear in Christian reconstruction is the gospel of Jesus Christ and the preaching of that gospel with the prayer that the

Holy Spirit would turn the hearts and minds of people to trust in Christ as their savior and to trust in him alone, not to trust in politics, not to trust in law, but to trust in Christ alone.

So everything I'm saying is not new. It's old as the hills. It's a part of the

Reformation of the 1500s, 1600s. It was a part of the life of the

New Testament. It fills up the Old Testament. You can't read the

Old Testament without understanding the point is, is that Jesus came to save his covenant people and to save the through them, the

Abrahamic covenant. God says, I'm going to be a God to you and your children after you down through their generations in an everlasting covenant.

And so then in the New Testament, we have the Great Commission, which is simply the restating of the

Abrahamic covenant and the dominion mandate of Genesis 128, taking into consideration man's sinfulness and the deed of a savior.

So this, the phrase that we hear a great deal, this is, this is bad theology, that the bad theology that a lot of evangelical

Christians believe and in believing and think that they're honoring

God is a theology that says that Jesus came to be our personal savior.

He came to be our, to save our souls. I don't believe any, either one of those things.

I believe they're hyperbole. I think they're misconceptions. I think they fail to understand the full ministry of Christ.

Nowhere in the Bible anyway, anywhere, as he said, to be a personal savior, as if his only concern was to save individual souls from hell before they die.

He's a far bigger savior than that. He's a cosmic savior. He came to save individuals.

He came to save his church. He came to save the world in which we live so that nation after nation might pour into Jerusalem and ask

Jerusalem, how does God want us to live? Well, we have to go.

If you could just pick up where you left off there, we have to go to our first commercial break. And if anybody, if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question, whether you agree with Dr.

Morecraft, whether you vehemently disagree, whether you're just not certain, we would love to hear from you at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

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We understand that and we will honor your request to remain anonymous. But if it's a general question, please give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Joseph C. Morecraft III. Armored Republic exists to equip free men with tools of liberty to defend

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That's royaldiadem .com, mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We're now back with Dr. Joseph C.

Moorcraft III, and when we went to the break you were just completing a point about the nations flowing to Jerusalem, and if you could pick up where you left off there.

Yes, there are many things that we, many doctrines, any basic theological principles that we have to know and know well in order to live healthy lives, in order to have a healthy family, healthy children, healthy church, healthy society.

There are certain things, theological principles, that we cannot be wrong on, and we must have some information on.

Like, for instance, why are you alive? What's the main purpose for man being on earth?

You get that wrong, everything else is going to be wrong. And what is the main purpose of man on earth?

To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever, to live for God's pleasure and not to live for our own pleasure.

And as we do that, our lives will be full of righteousness, life, joy, and so if we're not sure where we're going, what the purpose of life is, or if we get that answer wrong, then everything else is going to be wrong.

If man's chief purpose in life is to please himself, to live for himself, then everything about his life is going to be self -centered.

And if he's self -centered, then it's going to be harmful and detrimental to everybody else whom he loves.

There's something else he's got to know about. He's got to know about and have some theological understanding of the purpose of this world and the nature of life in this world.

I think one of the worst things that the

Christian church and evangelicals believe today, thinking that it's holy, thinking that it's pleasing to God, is an old heresy that goes back to the

Greek world, that is, believes that material, physical, worldly things are evil, and that the only thing that counts and the only thing that's important is intellectual things concerning the individual, and that we are to avoid involvement in this life on earth as much as we possibly can, so that our only concern is dying and going to heaven.

Now, you could imagine the impact of that theological principle upon life.

It's called pietism, and it is the view that the only thing that matters is the life to come and not life in this world, that the more we're involved in this world and in society and in physical and material things, the more we're going to be distracted from the really important things of life.

Now, what does that matter? It matters on all kinds of things. It matters on how we take care of this creation, how we live in this world.

What's the responsibility of a Christian to this creation all around him?

How important is creation to God and to us?

And so, as long as we believe that the only important things are spiritual and intellectual, and that physical, material things are harmful and detrimental, the less we'll be concerned in this life, and there are no vacuums, and the less we're concerned in this life, those vacuums are going to be filled with an unbeliever's activity and an unbeliever's understanding of things.

So, let me show you how this theology fills our hymns.

There's a hymn I like, but it's got a stanza in it that is completely unbiblical and can cause

Christians to be detached from what's going on in this world, and that's

Sweet Hour Prayer. I love the song Sweet Hour Prayer. It's in the Trinity Anthem, believe it. But in the last stanza, this old

Greek philosophy that says that only material, physical things are good and spiritual things are evil, creeps right in.

I think you meant the reverse, didn't you? Didn't you mean the reverse, that it is wrong to think that only spiritual things are sacred and all material things are good?

Yes, yes, excuse me. That's what I did mean. And in the last verse of that song, it says,

This robe of flesh I'll drop and rise, and seize the everlasting prize, and shout while passing through the air,

Farewell, farewell, sweet hour of prayer. Now, the image I get with that metaphor is a copperhead shedding its skin, so that what we look forward to is that day when we can get rid of these physical bodies of ours, when we can shed our skin and soar into the heavens just in our spirits.

That's not what the Bible teaches. That makes no room for a resurrection.

What do you do with resurrection? When you say, This robe of flesh I'll drop and rise, and seize the everlasting prize, well then, what's the big deal about resurrection at the end of life?

There is a reformed view of the last stanza. It says,

In my immortal flesh I'll rise, and seize the everlasting prize.

So this body is important to God, and everything we do with our bodies is important to Almighty God.

And the Bible tells us all over the place that we are to be careful with what we do with our bodies.

Everything we do with our bodies is important, and we must not detach ourselves from the needs and the pleasures and the desires of the body as long as we realize that we are one person.

We're a united person, body and soul. That when God created us, it says concerning his creation of us, that as he breathed into our nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, a living person.

So that God wants us to be careful. Everything we do, we do with our bodies and our souls at the same time.

Whenever you kiss your wife, it's not just a physical thing. It also has to do with spiritual things.

And so God is concerned with what we do with our bodies in this life. And that old

Greek view that God's not concerned, that physical life is not important, led to adulterous, immoral lives in the

Greeks and in the Christian church. It led to a disregard by Christians for what happens in this life and what we do in our lives, that the only thing we should worry about is dying and going to heaven when we die.

So that's a theology. And so when it comes to what

God wants us to do with our lives, we want to try to save individuals as many as we can from hell before Jesus comes back and burns everything up because nothing in this life is important.

And so what does that leave us? The Bible says that we're to disciple the nations, baptizing them in the name of the

Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything that he's taught us.

It doesn't say that we are to lead individuals, disciple individuals detached from each other.

It says we are to disciple nations, not just individuals within those nations, but to disciple the nations themselves and bring the

Word of God to bear upon every aspect of life. Well, we have a—

Which leads to— Go ahead. Yeah. I was just going to say we have a question that I was going to try to squeeze in before the break, but you could continue your thought.

Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. We have Deshaun in Hollis, Queens, New York.

And Deshaun says, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that Jesus did not come into the world to save sinners, but this seems to contradict 1

Timothy 1, verse 15. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners of whom

I am chief. Can you please explain? Oh, that is a great statement.

I love that statement. I mean, I'm a sinner, and I'm glad He came to save sinners like me.

But the redemptive work of Christ did not end with just saving individual sinners.

For instance, in Colossians chapter 1, it says that Christ came to redeem all.

He says that Christ is the head of all things. By Him, all things were created, and He reconciled all things to Himself.

And then He went on to say, and He has reconciled you, that is, those who believe in Him.

So He came to reconcile those who believe in Him and through Him to cause the power of reconciliation to be effected, and here's an old

Christmas girl, as far as the curse is found. That it's not just individuals that He came to save.

He did come to save individuals. The person is exactly right. But He came to bring the power of redemption to bear upon this whole world of His, and He's not going to leave it as it is.

He's going to remove the various stains and powers of sin from it, so that someday when

Jesus Christ comes back, He will come back to a new heaven and a new earth, which is a home of righteousness.

Now, there's two Greek words for new. One Greek word for new means new as having never existed before, and that's not the word

Jesus uses. The word Jesus uses is the other

Greek word that means renewed. So Christ came to renew, reform, regenerate

His people in this life. He came to save His church, and He came to bring in a renewed heavens and earth.

So every aspect of life in the universe is going to be effected by the redemptive work of the

Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. And we have to go to our midway break right now. Please use this time wisely.

Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you possibly can, so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers, always keeping in mind that our advertisers and the finances that come through their ad campaigns is what keeps

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in existence. So please try to respond to our advertisers as much as you can, and to further ensure you'll do that, write down their contact information that you hear in their commercials, and also send in your questions to Dr.

Joseph C. Moorcraft III, to chrisarnson at gmail .com. We'll be right back after these messages.

Don't go away. It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland, who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Attawi, in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, are largely to thank, since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

That's heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831. If you visit, tell them

Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener, from a tie in County Kildare, Ireland, sent you.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005.

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But before I return to my guest today, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, I have some very important announcements to make.

If you really love this show, folks, and you don't want to go off the air, please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

If you prefer snail mail, sending a physical check to a physical address the old -fashioned way, you will see a physical address that appears on your screen as well when you click support at IronSharpensIronRadio .com,

where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And by the way, we want to thank

Pastor Jay Quirk of Washington Avenue Bible Church in Denver, Pennsylvania, I never even knew there was a

Denver, Pennsylvania, for sending Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a very generous gift for the very first time.

We received that yesterday, and I'm always thrilled when I hear about churches that want to continue the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio through their financial support, so thank you.

I hope you're listening, Pastor Jay Quirk of Washington Avenue Bible Church in Denver, Pennsylvania, and I might as well give them a plug since they've been generous to us by providing you with their website, wabc, or should

I say wabchurch .com, wabchurch .com.

Thanks again, Pastor Quirk, and love to have you on the show at some point in the near future.

But folks, please, as I said, we need your help financially, probably more than ever before.

The giving to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio plummeted to an all -time low during the

COVID crisis that our government took advantage of with their overreach and tyrannical tactics, and many people,

I believe in our audience, must have lost their livelihoods or had a diminishment in their income because the giving to our show plummeted during that COVID crisis and has never bounced back.

We used to depend upon close to 20 donations a month from generous listeners.

Now we barely have a handful, so please, if you can help us, go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

If you want to advertise with us, whatever it may be, your church, parachurch ministry, your business, your private professional practice, like a law firm or medical firm, or just a special event, as long as it's compatible with my beliefs,

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

And that reminds me also to ask you to please pray for a number of ministries and businesses that have told me that they would love to begin advertising with us.

One is a nationwide ministry, one is actually a ministry located in Germany, of all places, and we have others here in the

United States who have told us that they want to move forward on this, but they are waiting for some financial assistance to accomplish this.

So please, pray that we hear praise reports soon about this and that we can depend upon these advertising campaigns.

But send me an email if you'd like to join them in advertising to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

Remember folks, as urgently and as desperately as we need your financial help, I never want anybody in my audience to cut into the finances that you have set aside and reserved for your own church, where you're a member, when you give on the

Lord's Day to that church. Never give less money than you normally give to your own church just because you want to help us financially.

As much as we need your help, we never want you to do that, and we never want you to give to us if you're really struggling to survive, to make ends meet, wait until you're back on your feet and more financially stable before you bless us with a gift.

The Bible is very clear that we are primarily to use the money with which he has blessed us, which is still God's money, to provide for our church and family, and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

But if you're blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those commands, and you have extra money for benevolent recreational and trivial purposes, you have extra money for pocket cash, well please spend some of that, share some of that money with us if you really want us to exist, if you love the show, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

click support, then click click to donate now. And also last but not least, if you are not a member of a

Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, doctrinally solid, theologically sound church like Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, I have extensive lists spanning the entire globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in our audience all over the planet earth find churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live, that are faithful to the scriptures.

And that may be you too, if you find yourself in a position where you are not a member of a biblically faithful church, please send us an email no matter where in the world you live.

Send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Dr.

Joseph C. Moore, perhaps the third of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. We have another individual from the five boroughs of New York City, and we apologize to our listeners for the feedback we're hearing.

I have no idea where it's coming from, but we have a listener,

I was just looking at the question from Andrew in Brooklyn, New York. And I'm sorry that it's taken me longer than I thought to find that question.

Oh, here it is. Okay. And this is a question that may need a follow -up from you,

Andrew, because I'm not 100 % sure exactly what you meant by your question.

Maybe Dr. Moorecraft can tell. But Andrew says, isn't it wrong to be condemning the churches that are holding onto orthodoxy at a time when we see churches and denominations like the

United Methodist Church aligning themselves with the spirit of the age?

I think, and perhaps you could come up with a better clarification than I can,

Dr. Moorecraft, but I think Andrew means that perhaps we are criticizing churches that are theologically sound and abhor the leftist corruption of denominations and the grotesque blasphemous things that are going on.

They stand side by side with us probably on things like marriage is to be between one man and one woman for life and that kind of thing.

And so we are, in his words, condemning churches because we disagree with them on eschatology and on their impact in transforming culture, that kind of thing.

I mean, I'm assuming that's what Andrew means. And if you want to clarify, Andrew, send us another email. But what do you think,

Dr. Moorecraft? Well, I think that's a very good question.

A very good point to make is that we don't associate ourselves with any church just because there's a church.

That Paul says in Acts 19, whenever he would go into a town and preach, he'd try to find a synagogue because that's where the most people were and that's where he could preach the gospel to a lot of people.

But as time went on and the leaders of the synagogue became critical of the gospel,

Paul said that he separated the disciples. When the synagogue started speaking evil of the way before the multitude,

Paul separated the disciples preaching in a school of a private individual.

And so I think that's a very important principle. That be careful the churches you go to.

Don't go to a church just because it claims to be Christian, just because it claims to be Orthodox.

What do they preach? What are the three marks of a true church? That's the important thing. That make sure in your theology, you know what a real church is and what the real marks of a true church are.

There are three marks of a true church. Yeah, I was just about to ask you that. If the church does not bear these three marks, don't go to that church.

Go to another one. The three marks are number one, the faithful preaching of the word of God.

Number two, the faithful administration of the sacraments of baptism and the

Lord's Supper and number three, the faithful practice of church discipline.

Those are the three marks of a true church. And if you don't find those marks in your church, whatever happens, go to another church because you don't want to go to a counterfeit church which are found everywhere.

And it's not just arbitrarily chosen doctrinal principles that we're trying to establish here as to what you should do and where you should go and how you should interpret life.

How you interpret what a church is, is a very important part of life.

You get that wrong, everything else is going to be wrong. And I'll tell you another important principle.

You evaluate churches and everything else in this world by the word of God.

Now, what does the Bible mean when it says that the word of God is the standard?

By which we determine right and wrong and truth and falsehood and good and evil.

There are all kinds of views as to what the Bible is today. Make sure that you have the proper view.

The Bible is not just a witness to the word of God that helps us understand spiritual things.

That the Bible is not limited to individual salvation.

That the Bible is authoritative in everything about which it speaks that speaks about everything.

Whatever the Bible asserts to be true on any subject is true.

And whatever the Bible says happened, happened. So make sure if you call yourself a

Bible -believing Christian, and you go to a Bible -believing church, that they don't believe anything less than the complete inerrancy of the scripture.

That there are no errors in the Bible. Whatever it says to be true, you can trust.

And it's just does not, is not limited to one particular aspect of life.

But we talk about the sufficiency of scripture. That scripture applies to everything.

It tells us how to witness. It tells us how to form a church. It tells us how to grow a family.

It tells us how to build a nation. It tells us how to spend their money.

It tells us how to live on Sunday. That it is divinely authoritative in everything about which it speaks.

So if you claim to be a Bible -believing Christian, have you asked the

Bible, what am I supposed to believe here? How am I supposed to believe there?

The Bible tells us how to have funerals. The Bible tells us how to spend our money.

The Bible tells us how to understand politics. So the

Bible is not just limited to one area of life. It applies to every area of life.

And that's the biggest place I think the church has failed over the past hundred years or so.

That it has limited the authority of the Bible to just spiritual things, to individual lives, rather than realizing that it's far bigger than that.

So that it is the will of God concerning how we're to think and live in this world.

And when we say that it's the will of God, what part of the Bible is the will of God? When you say the

Bible is the word of God, what part of it is? Is it just the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

Is it just the book of Romans that's the revelation of the will of God? Is it just the

New Testament? We have people today who say that they go to New Testament churches.

Well, our church makes the point we don't. But our church is not a

New Testament church. It's a Bible church. We believe that God has revealed his will to us in the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

Which means you have to know how to interpret the Bible. You have to figure out how to properly understand it and not read into it what you want it to say, but you read out of it what it says.

So do you read the Bible correctly? Is your theology such that you know how to read the

Bible and you know how to apply it to your life and you don't limit to just your favorite passage, but that you believe the entire scriptures from Genesis to Revelation are the revelation of God's will for your life?

We have one of the big problems in the church today. We have people who limit the word of God to the

Old Testament. They say, well, the New Testament's for Christians, the

Old Testament for the Jews. So that if we read a law from the

Old Testament that the Jews are supposed to obey, we say that's not for us. That was for another age, another dispensation.

That was for the Jews and not for us. We got to be careful how we say that. That may be true of the ceremonial laws.

But that's not true of the Ten Commandments. And that's not true of all those little case laws, several hundred of them that fill up the

Old Testament that are practical applications of one or more of the Ten Commandments to every area of life.

We've got to be careful that we don't have a pick and choose, capiterious to how, understanding of the authority of scripture.

That's where we failed. We have looked to the Bible for some things, how to be saved, but other things we have looked to human reason, as if the

Bible reveals some things for us and human reason reveals other things for us.

That was the great fault of the Enlightenment and the great, one of the reasons

America collapsed as far as being a Puritan nation is concerned. Our earliest fathers in the 1500s and the 1600s believed that the

Bible was the full and sufficient and inerrant revelation of God's will.

Then it started compromising. And it started saying, well, the word of God and human reason together comprise the revelation of God's will.

Augustine, who lived at the year 500, one of my favorite men, Augustine said that you cannot understand any area of life apart from the

Bible. And then in the 12th century, another man by the name of Thomas Aquinas said, well, you do need the

Bible for some things, but you can understand life by human reason for other things.

And then by the time of the Renaissance, the humanists said, well,

Mr. Aug or Mr. Aquinas, if you don't need the Bible for everything, you don't need the

Bible for anything. And so as time went on and the church says we need the

Bible for everything, then they compromised and said we could use the human reason and the

Bible. And here we are today. The Bible is to be put on the shelf. It is an obstruction to understanding and knowledge and wisdom.

And we ought not to fool with it, except at funerals and weddings and the like.

So we've got to make sure that our understanding of the Bible is the foundation of everything.

The church is the temple of God based upon the foundation of the prophets and the apostles,

Christ Jesus being the chief cornerstone. And so we've got to make sure if we're going to to have a proper theological view of everything else in this life, that at the basis, we've got to make sure that our understanding of the scripture, the extent of scripture, the sufficiency of scripture is everything that it should be.

Because the church has wandered very far away from its historical understanding of the sufficiency of the word of God to everyday life.

Now, going back to the three primary elements that every church must possess to be a true church, to be considered a true church.

There are pastors and churches out there that would not be in full agreement with some of the things you're saying about how they are to apply the scriptures in being salt and light and a transforming influence in the culture.

That doesn't mean that they're not true churches. It just means that you would say, excuse me, that they're in serious error about certain things, correct?

Yes. It's not to say they're not true churches. It's just to say they're not going to be reliable guides in all of the basic issues that we have to face today.

And so I would look for a church. If I was looking for a church, I wouldn't look for a church that had a great organ or a great piano or a great steeple or a beautiful pews, a big...

I would go to a church that believes in the sufficiency of the word of God.

The inerrancy and the sufficiency of the word of God. They could be wrong on some things, but there's some things they've got to be right on, basic things.

They could be wrong about the baptism. Some can sprinkle, some can immerse.

They can be wrong about the officers in the church. Some have elders, some have deacons, but there's other things they can't be wrong on.

Because if you're wrong on some things, you're over the hill. Like for instance, justification by faith in Christ alone.

If you're wrong on that, if you're wrong on justification by faith in Christ alone, that's a damnable mistake.

So be sure that you find a church that is as scriptural as it can be.

It's hard to find them. We have some people that drive three hours to church, because it's difficult to find a church these days that is basically sound on the various critical issues that we have to face today.

Make sure they're right on abortion, that is murder. Make sure they're right on homosexual marriages, it's forbidden.

Make sure they're right on homosexuality as sexual perversion.

Make sure they're right on these basic issues of life. They can be wrong on some things, but there are some things that are so central that they cannot be wrong on those.

Okay, we have a question from Dutch in Glen Burnie, Maryland.

And this is actually a question for me. Chris, are you a post -millennialist theonomist reconstructionist since you have so many guests who are?

That is something that I'm hearing almost weekly from listeners.

No, I'm not quite in that category. I consider myself an optimistic amillennialist, but the reason

I have so many theonomists on my program is that I love the way that they apply the

Christian faith to every sphere of life. And very few people outside of that camp seem to do so.

And in fact, it's interesting that most of the time I interview theonomists, they're not even talking about theonomy.

They're talking about a whole host of issues. And the thing that I can't understand for the life of me is why there are

Christians out there from my theological and eschatological camp, sorry about that, who vilify theonomists.

In fact, there are people who have told me flat out that they dropped support of my show financially because I interview theonomists.

And I'm just baffled by that. Well, the main thing that I disagree with theonomists over is the certainty that their optimistic view of the future will take place.

I want them to be right. I don't understand Christians who don't want them to be right.

It doesn't even make any sense. And of course,

I disagree with people even in my own camp who are certain that Christ is returning within our lifetime.

People have been saying that over 100 years. So that can lead to the problem that we're talking about today, where, as the old saying goes, why polish the brass on a sinking ship?

I'm not sure who first said that. But people, some people in the faith have an attitude.

Why are we bothering to even make an effort to transform society when Jesus is coming very soon and the world as we know it will be destroyed?

So I agree with that. I disagree with that extreme as well.

But there you have it. But I can say that I'm leaving myself open to be convinced of post -millennialism in theonomy and reconstructionism.

But I just haven't arrived there. Yeah, I would. Couple things in your theology, whatever, whatever those your theology is.

There's a couple of things that all of us are going to believe. We're going to believe, number one, that God is sovereign.

We're going to believe that God is omnipotent. And that God does whatever he pleases.

And somebody who is sovereign and who is omnipotent never loses.

The second thing we're going to understand is that all of us are going to believe those things. The second thing is we're going to understand that the longest chapter in the

Bible is not about God's love. It's about God's law.

So that all Christians, whatever their view, are going to have a very high view of the law of God and be able to sing

Psalm 119. Oh, how I love that law.

But in this culture, we have a couple things. We have an inbred defeatism.

That it doesn't matter whether we win or lose in this life, God doesn't care what happens in this world anyway.

And secondly, we have an antinomian culture in which we live that the law of God of the

Bible is an obsolete thing. So you can be all the isms you want to be, but those are certain things that you can't compromise on.

And so that's why it's so important to make sure your theology is well thought through.

Let me recommend another book for you. If you've never read a book on systematic theology, that is, on the various doctrines of the

Bible and what they mean and how they relate to each other, there is a great book that a lot of people have read of various stripes and denominations.

And it's by a man named, it's got a thick book that is for somebody who wants to take seriously reading in -depth systematic theology.

Get the book, Systematic Theology. Oh no, his name slipped me, but it'll come to me.

But I've recommended that book to several people. But if you just want to get a basic understanding of the various doctrines of the

Christian faith, what they mean, how they relate to each other, how they're contradicted, you can get a smaller book written by this guy.

Oh, me, he's Dutch, and I don't know,

I'm trying to think of it. Well, we're going to a final break, so you could, if you wanted to.

All right, maybe it'll come to me. Okay. And if anybody wants to submit a question before we run out of time, and we are doing it again,

Chris, Louis Burkoff. Okay, great. I'm glad you remembered. And yes, a great name of our

Christian heritage, Louis Burkoff. And you could get Systematic Theology from quite a wide variety of publishers.

I would urge you to go to cvbbs .com, since they sponsor this show. C -V, as in Cumberland Valley, B -B -S,

Bible Book Service, and type in the search engine Burkoff, B -E -R -K -H -O -F, and Systematic Theology is one of the books that will come up to choose from.

But we are going to our final break, so send in your questions if you have them right away, because we're running out of time.

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back. I'm Dr.

Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

Westminster Larger Catechism, titled Authentic Christianity, by Dr. Joseph Moorcraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

Dr. Moorcraft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com, westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. Please tell Dr. Moorcraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr.

Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. O hail the power of Jesus' name!

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support

Iron Sharpens Iron radio financially. Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. This is

Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

Christian faith.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of Sovereign Grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. And the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Anthony Uvino, founder of thereformrookie .com

and co -founder of New York Apologetics. And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Tim Bushong of Syracuse Baptist Church in Syracuse, Indiana. And the NASB is my

Bible of choice. I'm Eli Ayala, founder of Revealed Apologetics and staff member with the

Historical Bible Society. And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Josh Miller of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Joe Bianchi, president of Calvi Press Publishing in Greenville, South Carolina.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jake Korn of Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB. And tell the publishers you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order.

Greetings. This is Brian McLaughlin, president of the SecureComm Group and supporter of Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program.

SecureComm provides the highest level of security systems for residential buildings, municipalities, churches, commercial properties, and much more.

We can be reached at securecommgroup .com. That's securecommgroup .com.

But today, I want to introduce you to my senior pastor, Doug McMasters of New High Park Baptist Church on Long Island.

Doug McMasters here, former director of pastoral correspondence at Grace to You, the radio ministry of John MacArthur.

In the film Chariots of Fire, the Olympic gold medalist runner Eric Liddell remarked that he felt

God's pleasure when he ran. He knew his efforts sprang from the gifts and calling of God.

I sense that same God -given pleasure when ministering the word and helping others gain a deeper knowledge and love for God.

That love starts with the wonderful news that the Lord Jesus Christ is a savior who died for sinners and that God forgives all who come to him in repentance, trusting solely in Christ to deliver them.

I would be delighted to have the honor and privilege of ministering to you if you live in the Long Island area or Queens or Brooklyn or the

Bronx in New York City. For details on New High Park Baptist Church, visit nhpbc .com.

That's nhpbc .com. You can also call us at 516 -352 -9672.

That's 516 -352 -9672. That's New High Park Baptist Church.

A congregation in love with each other, passionate for Christ, committed to learning and being shaped by God's word and delighting in the gospel of God's sovereign grace.

Chris Arnzen here. I am forever grateful to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for their generous financial support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

But that's not the only reason I love them. CVBBS .com carries the finest in theologically reformed literature from 16th century classics like Calvin's Institutes, 17th and 18th century

Puritan treasures like the works of Jonathan Edwards, 19th century volumes by the

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IRON. That's CVBBS .com. Enriching minds and maintaining the theologically reformed influence of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio through their financial support.

Now shipping worldwide. And don't forget folks,

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is also paid for in part by the law firm of Buttafuoco &

Associates. If you are the victim of a very serious personal injury or medical malpractice, please, no matter where in the

United States you live, call 1 -800 -NOW -HURT, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT.

That's the number for the law firm of Buttafuoco & Associates, where my very dear longtime friend

Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law, is the founder and lead attorney.

And you could also visit Dan Buttafuoco's website at 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com, 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

And we thank Dan Buttafuoco, attorney at law, for sponsoring not only Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but every single major event that I have set my hand to do and orchestrate and host, going all the way back to the early 1990s, when

I began launching live public theological debates and conferences, even long before I had my own radio program,

Dan Buttafuoco has been there, making sure that these things that I am trying to accomplish come to fruition.

And thank you so much, Dan, for your faithful financial support. That's 1 -800 -NOW -HURT and 1 -800 -NOW -HURT .com.

Make sure you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio if you contact the law firm of Buttafuoco &

Associates. I also want to remind our listeners, if you're a man in ministry leadership, you are invited to the next free biannual

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon on Thursday, October 10th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania. My keynote speaker will be, for the first time,

Dr. Joseph Boot, founder and president of the Ezra Institute and author of the book,

The Mission of God. And I know that book has been a delight for you to read, hasn't it,

Dr. Moorcraft? Dr. Moorcraft, are you there? I was mentioning

Joe Boot's book, The Mission of God, and I know that you have been informing me that you love that book. Great book.

Well, if you want to attend... Go ahead, I'm sorry. The Mission of God?

Yes. Well, there's another great book I follow, too. That's good for anybody from high school up, and it's called

Always Ready by Greg Bonson. Yes. All of those books are very readable.

And if you read those books, whether you're an adult or a young person, you read those books, you will be like the sons of Ishakar in the

Old Testament who underserved their times and they knew what to tell

Israel to do. That's extremely important for a parent to be that kind of person.

Know what's being taught to them wherever they go. Know what this culture is doing or what it believes and know how to answer them.

And I guarantee you that when that happens, that you will be your children's hero.

That you will see power in our culture turn from the bad guys to the good guys.

When we're able to understand what our culture believes and know how to answer them, your children will love you.

They need you to be the final authority in their life because the schools today, colleges, etc.,

they want to divorce the children from their parents so that the teachers will be the final authority.

I saw a teacher's manual one time for public schools for teachers.

And what it called parents was not parents. It called parents censors.

Censors. And they're doing everything they can to wean their children off of you as an authority.

So, Always Ready by Bobson, Boot on the

Mission of God, Greg Singer on the

Theological Interpretation of American History. Those are very important.

Lewis Burkow on Summary of Christianity or Summary of Reformed Faith or something to that effect.

And you read those books. Get your children to read them. And that will get them way down the road in how they're going to be used by God and how they're going to survive this culture.

Amen. And by the way, folks, if you want to register for the Free Pastors Luncheon featuring

Dr. Joseph Boot on Thursday, October 10th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the

Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, Perry County, Pennsylvania, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line. That's all you have to do to register. It's absolutely free.

Lunch is free. And everybody gets a free heavy sack of brand new books personally selected by me and donated by Christian publishers all over the

United States and United Kingdom. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put Pastors Luncheon in the subject line.

Let's see, we probably have time for a couple of more questions. We have

Harrison in Cheek, Tawaga, New York.

I'm sure that's a Native American name. And he asks, Dr. Morecraft, are you a

Christian nationalist? That's an interesting question because just earlier today, a very well -known

Christian recording artist was very angry that I interviewed someone the other day that he, that this listener claims is a

Christian nationalist. I'm not sure if the listener is right about that, but he said of this person, he is a leader in the most horrible pagan philosophy, dominating the culture now.

It's a Christian nationalism and something to that effect. And I responded to him.

Well, number one, Christian nationalism is not a monolithic group. There are all kinds of people that call themselves a

Christian nationalist, some of whom I want no part of. And I'm sure some of whom

Dr. Morecraft wants no part of. But at the same time, there are many people that are wonderful,

God -fearing, theologically sound Christians who would identify that way.

And I reminded this person, I said, Zambia is a nation on the continent of Africa that publicly, officially declares itself as a

Christian nation. And so do many other countries on the

African continent. Do you want them to renounce that? And I don't know if he has a response for me yet, but people seem to think differently about when something is happening here in the

United States and frown upon it. And yet they have no problem at all if it's happening in, if it's happening in Africa or some other nation.

Am I right? We live in a culture now where it is popular to try to dechristianize

America and to criminalize Christianity. That's the goal of many people in our culture.

And so they try to confuse Christians. They try to get them mixed up. They try to get them to be afraid of certain emphases.

Uh, Christian nationalism has a lot of different meanings.

It can mean a variety of things. What liberals mean by it. And they try to get you to mean by it is white

Christian nationalism. They want to make you think that a phrase is, it's very nature racist.

And so I don't use the word. I have some good friends that do.

I'm not against using it. I just never use it. I've talked more in terms of biblical statements as the conversion of the nations, the bringing of the nations to Christ, uh, the seeking to Christianize the

United States, to win the hearts and minds of Christians in America to Christ so that they will want

God's law, biblical law as the basis of culture and of human society.

So don't let the liberals fake you out. Don't let them try to make you afraid of things that you ought not to be afraid of, because they are doing it on purpose to make you compromise and to make you be afraid of being a strict

Christian because that is what they do not want you to be. So whether you call it

Christian nations, whether you call it Christian nationalism, whether you call it winning the nations to Christ, don't compromise on any of those things.

They're trying to de -Christianize America. They're trying to criminalize

Christianity. And you understand exactly what they're doing, and you're doing the opposite.

And we're out of time, and Dr. Morecraft's websites are heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, and don't forget about westminstercommentary .com, and also comprehensivechristianity .com.

Thank you, Dr. Morecraft, for, as always, doing such a masterful job today. I look forward to your return.

And I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater